Shows / We're Not Marketers
We're Not Marketers
B2B product marketers in SaaS businesses are feeling misunderstood. Struggling to position what they do internally. Colleagues not having one clear idea what they do either. What if there was a better way? This is We're Not Marketers. The new podcast for SaaSy B2B product marketers who want CEO buy-in on what they do. Get the weekly masterclass without the inflated tuition and entry-level requirements, just to get your foot in the door. Stop being overlooked and start listening. Hosted on…
Episodes
We're Not MarketersIC vs PMM leadership. Is the promotion today still worth it? (with Emily Pick)
Emily Pick (Director of Product Marketing at Docebo) can do product marketing in her sleep. So when she earned the director title, she took it. Is it still…
We're Not MarketersTime to pivot? Fractional PMMs reveal.
Three fractional PMMs (Eric, Gab and Zach), one uncomfortable question: when you pivot your offer, do you actually know what you're doing? In this next…
We're Not MarketersThey're Paying $400K for a Job Product Marketers Already Do, w/ Elliott Rayner
Companies are posting head of storytelling roles at around $400K a year, and Elliott Rayner (Head of Storytelling at OWOW Agency and Creator of The Story…
We're Not MarketersDeath to Sameness w/ Nina Churchill
Nina Churchill quit her corporate PMM job effective immediately. She then wrote a series of posts on LinkedIn that reached about half a million people. She's a…
We're Not MarketersYour CEO Just Handed You an Event. Now What? w/ Maggie Arai
Your CEO just said you're hosting an event. You've never run one. Now what? Maggie Arai is the Founder of IRL Studios, where she designs in-person events for…
We're Not MarketersWe Spent Three Years Hiding From Dave Gerhardt at His Own Event
Eric Holland and Gab Bujold recorded this one on a deck in Stowe, Vermont, in the middle of Drive, with a cardboard cutout of Zach standing in for the third…
We're Not MarketersWhy Is Every Product Marketer Suddenly Being Asked to Make Video? w/ Natalie Taylor
Video landed on every marketer's plate this year. Nobody added headcount for it, and nobody explained how to actually get one made. Natalie Taylor runs…
We're Not MarketersPMA Offered Us $200. We Said "No Deal", and Built Our Own Event
This is the Death to Marketing episode. Zach, Eric and Gab take stock of what it has actually cost to build a conference from nothing: the $200 sponsorship…
We're Not MarketersHow a Guy Who Graded Film Got Tricked Into Product Marketing w/ Jason Druss
Jason Druss spent 15 years being the customer — a film colorist at Warner Bros, NFL Films, and his own Philly boutique — before Adobe pulled him into product…
We're Not MarketersAI is killing your marketing (one way to fix) w/ Gila Shapiro
Some of B2B are the cool kids shouting "synergy" with spinach dip in hand. Gila Shapiro — copywriter, PMM, and resident chaos agent at Fireflies.ai — joined…
We're Not MarketersAllergic to bullshit marketing w/ Louis Grenier
Louis Grenier has run a podcast called Everyone Hates Marketers for 8 years. He's not here to be nice about it. In this episode, Lou breaks down why product…
We're Not Marketers“I’m Just A Normal PMM Trying To Survive” (with David Lim)
Are product marketers actually marketers, or are they just glorified slide deck designers waiting for sales to bark orders? David Lim—a PMM who's survived…
We're Not MarketersThe Anti-ICP Strategy: How To Use Your Website to Fire Bad Prospects w/ BX Studio
Product marketers think they own the messaging. SEO thinks they own the traffic. But who actually owns your website—and why are they both probably wrong? In…
We're Not MarketersStrategy over fluffy jargon w/ Crystal Crouch
Crystal Crouch turned driving the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile into a product marketing empire - and she's not keeping the secrets. The woman who put Zach on the…
We're Not MarketersNo salary is worth your soul with Hattie the PMM
Product marketers aren't marketers—they're architects while everyone else chooses to paint walls (no shade). Hattie the PMM shares her brutal journey from…
We're Not MarketersWhy Product Marketing only lives (and dies) in B2B tech with Garrett Jestice
Product marketing is marketing at it's purest form (not our words) —but only if we redefine what marketing actually means. Garrett Jestice, founder of Prelude…
We're Not MarketersAre you the Sales B*tch or the trusted PMM? w/ Drew Giovannoli
Your PMM credibility is at stake, CRO demands more leads, without knowing what's winning revenue. Sounds familiar? Drew Giovannoli, founder of Buried Wins…
We're Not MarketersHow curiosity didn't kill the cat w/ Amanda Groves
Product marketers aren't marketers—they're non-conformist rebels! Amanda Groves, VP of PMM at Enable, who rocketed from IC to VP in just 2 years explains why…
We're Not MarketersBeing human is your coolest feature w/ Nick Power
Marketers have become glorified executors, and, Nick Power isn't here to sugarcoat it. The lowercase LinkedIn legend– who also leads marketing at Noun Project–…
We're Not MarketersMeasure important stuff or die trying w/ Pranav Piyush
Product marketing—marketing's favorite misunderstood stepchild or just expensive project management in disguise? Pranav Piyush (ex-Dropbox, ex-Bill, founder of…
We're Not MarketersWhy B2B events sucks for PMMs? (And why we’re starting our own)
Season five kicks off with the announcement nobody asked for but everyone needed: We're Not Marketers is throwing an event, and it's nothing like the stale…
We're Not MarketersKlue (battlecards) don't close deals, buying champions do
AI-powered competitive intel is the new snake oil, and executives are buying it by the gallon. While everyone's obsessing over ChatGPT doing their research in…
We're Not MarketersBecome a Mini-CEO: Inside the PMM Consultant’s Playbook w/ Alex Virden
What happens when a product marketer leaves the in-house grind to start her own consultancy? According to Alex Virden, it changed how she saw product marketing…
We're Not MarketersThere is no line between brand and product marketing w/ Jon Itkin
If you’ve ever felt a gap between brand and product marketing, we’ve had an expert who’s been in both roles and is telling us that there’s not that different…
We're Not MarketersPMMs, MarTech, and making AI actually useful w/ Phil Gamache
Is product marketing really marketing? Or is it something more (or less)? In this deep-dive episode, Humans of MarTech co-founder Phil Gamache joins the crew…
We're Not MarketersWhy In-House PMMs Without Fractional Experience Are Missing Out?
Is working fractional that secret weapon for in-house PMMs? In this no-holds-barred episode, Eric, Zach, and Gab debate whether product marketers with…
We're Not Marketers"Create Once, Dominate Forever: Why 2025 Content Decisions Determine Your 2030 Success w/ Ross Simmonds
In this spicy episode, CEO & Founder of Foundation Marketing, Ross Simmonds reveals why content without distribution is just expensive digital paperwork. We…
We're Not MarketersWhy marketing research Is more than just 'talking to customers' w/ Ryan Paul Gibson
Are most B2B marketers actually doing customer research wrong? In this episode, Content Lift founder Ryan Paul Gibson reveals why "just talking to customers"…
We're Not MarketersWhen Copy Gets Real: Why Getting Too Creative Actually Kills Conversion
Is sounding "enterprise" killing your marketing message? In this episode, conversion copywriter Jessica Malnik joins the crew to expose why the most effective…
We're Not MarketersProduct marketers, paid landing pages are broken, w/ Tas Bober
If you're tired of building landing pages that follow "best practices" but still fail to convert qualified leads, this episode will change everything. Whether…
We're Not MarketersThe bottom of funnel (BOFU) gap: Why content marketers need product marketers w/ Lashay Lewis
Ever wonder why most bottom-of-funnel content feels generic and fails to convert? In this episode, content strategy advisor Lashay Lewis drops knowledge bombs…
We're Not MarketersWinning at Win-Loss: Why real research beats sales rep excuses w/ Ryan Sorley
Is your win-loss data just expensive fiction written by your sales team? In this episode, Ryan Sorley (ex-Forrester, ex-Gartner) joins the crew to expose the…
We're Not MarketersWhy most message testing is complete BS (and how to fix it)
Is your message testing just throwing random ingredients into a pot and hoping it tastes good? In this no-holds-barred episode, the boys tackle the chaos of…
We're Not MarketersDoing more with less as a solo PMM w/ Michele Nieberding
We have a rule here: Never get the same guest twice. Well, we’ve just broken it now because we’re getting Michele Nieberding for the 2nd time! The Director of…
We're Not MarketersFrom SDR to CMO: Why the best sellers are marketers w/ Kyle Coleman
Product marketers with a sales background often feel like they have a superpower. The opposite is even truer. Kyle Coleman, CMO at Copy.ai, says yes—and he’s…
We're Not MarketersHow to deliver outcome-based metrics as a PMM orchestrator w/ Chanel Chambers
We’re kicking off season 4 with Chanel Chambers, VP of Marketing at Lakeside Software. As a product marketing leader and past music teacher, she’s joining us…
We're Not MarketersRECAP - How to build influence as a PMM in 2025
In this special recap, we dive into what it really means to be a product marketer in the ever-evolving B2B SaaS space—from defining the role to gaining the…
We're Not MarketersWhy your messaging briefs get thrown in the trash w/ Devin Reed
Product marketing and content marketing—are they allies, or just frenemies in disguise? In this episode, Devin Reed (ex-Gong, ex-Clari, and host of Read…
We're Not MarketersBuilding We're Not Marketers 💀 The Podcast Origin Story
Ever wondered how a band of misfits turned shared frustrations into a thriving podcast? In this episode, we’re sharing our origin story, revealing how they…
We're Not MarketersBet on Yourself: Lessons from Going Fractional as a PMM
Are you ready to take the leap into fractional work? In this episode of We're Not Marketers, Gab, Zach, and Eric dive into the realities, challenges, and…
We're Not MarketersSimplifying stories and learning in Product Marketing w/ Peter Kortvel
The more knowledge you have on product marketing, the better you can be an expert and have more impact on your job. Today, we’re having Peter Kortvel, a senior…
We're Not Marketers3 different ways of making your mark as a founding PMM? (especially when everything is against you)
Making your mark as a founding PMM is very difficult, especially when the role itself has an identity crisis. That’s why we’ve asked three product marketers…
We're Not MarketersFrom Jack of All Trades to Niche Mastery in PMM, with Rob Kaminski
Episode Description: In this episode of We're Not Marketers, we’re diving deep with Rob Kaminski, one-half of the dynamic duo behind Fletch PMM. Rob’s journey…
We're Not MarketersBecome an Unignorable PMM by finding your superpower
Ever felt like a misfit in product marketing? You’re not alone. In this episode of We’re Not Marketers, hosts Gab, Zach, and Eric dive deep into a hot topic…
We're Not MarketersThe True Role of PMMs with Rahim Kaba
In this next episode of We're Not Marketers, hosts Zach, Gab, and Eric are joined by Rahim Kaba, Director and Research Analyst at Gartner, to dive into the…
We're Not MarketersBecoming the PMM 2.0: Advocacy, AI, and Product Strategy w/ Jess Petrella
The role of the PMM is evolving and requires us to always adapt and be knowledgeable on new tech and initiatives. It can make a difference between a product…
We're Not MarketersThe PMM Horror Stories LIVE for Halloween w/ Michele Nieberding
The worst thing about being a PMM is not having to launch a new product within 2 weeks, or drowning in sales decks. It’s all sharing the same trauma that…
We're Not MarketersBecome Sales Best Friend with Win-Loss Analysis w/ Matthew Reeves
For PMMs, it can be difficult to have a good relationship with sales, especially in new roles. Win-loss analysis and interviews can be a good win when you see…
We're Not MarketersWhy most startup positioning is mushy and what to do instead w/ April Dunford
Get ready for some real talk about positioning! In this episode, we sit down with the queen of positioning herself, April Dunford. If your startup’s…
We're Not MarketersPMMs and the Art of Juggling Everything: Balancing Work, Life, and Mental Health
Dealing with the chaos of being a PMM while trying to balance the rest of your life? You’re not alone. In this candid episode of We're Not Marketers, Zach…
We're Not MarketersAre Product Marketers the Future CMOs? w/ Jeff Chase
In this episode of We're Not Marketers, we sit down with the one and only Jeff Chase, Director of Brand and Product Marketing at Vitally.io, who drops a major…
We're Not MarketersHow to get mad respect from your colleagues w/ Jarod Greene
In this episode, Jarod Greene, CMO of Vivint, shares his journey from teaching middle school math to Gartner analyst to CMO today and offers actionable advice…
We're Not MarketersFinding your special sauce as a Fractional PMM w/ Megan Pratt
There are many different flavors of product marketers, whether you’re in-house or fractional like our host, you need to be aware of your special sauce 😉 The…
We're Not MarketersWhy being misunderstood in Product Marketing is actually your superpower
After 29 episodes, we’re finally closing down our season 2 and we’re taking this opportunity to circle back on why PMMs are misunderstood today in B2B SaaS…
We're Not MarketersEmbracing the Misfit: Emma Stratton's guide to “smart” product marketing
Timeline: 00:17 - Meet Emma Stratton: Life Coach and Messaging Expert 03:03 - Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 06:45 - Embracing the Misfit Identity…
We're Not MarketersJob Roulette: When PMMs have to “bite the bullet” while job hunting
Timestamps: 01:36 PMM jobs and LinkedIn trends. 03:00 Discussion about job application experiences and interview etiquette. 05:00 Gab shares a story about a…
We're Not MarketersBoldness—What that should look like in B2B PMM w/ Julien Sauvage
Timestamps 00:43 Introducing of Julien Sauvage 01:57 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 06:41 The Role of Boldness in Marketing 14:06 Event Branding…
We're Not MarketersBuild an internal brand, using CI w/ Patrick Wall
Timestamps 1:00: Introduction of Pat Wall 5:00: Role of product marketers 7:00: CI and product marketing 8:30: Evolution of CI in Pat's career 10:00: Building…
We're Not MarketersSegmentation: How to deal with "let's get everyone" as a target
Timestamps: 00:52 Discussing Target Audience 01:40 Horror Stories of Target Audience 05:14 Challenges in Messaging and Segmentation 14:23 Examples of Poor…
We're Not MarketersThe one word most miss in “product marketing” w/ Becky Trevino
Timestamps: 0:00 The one word most miss in "product marketing" with Becky Trevino 00:16 Introduction and Hosts Banter 01:08 Introducing Special Guest Becky…