Latest / Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint / How to Say No to Bad Deals

Transcript

How to Say No to Bad Deals · Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to the podcast.
• 0:02
  This is your first time listening.
• 0:04
  Welcome back. For regular listeners today, the
• 0:07
  question we're going to tackle is from LinkedIn.
• 0:10
  And the question is, what do you do when a client is nudging you
• 0:16
  to do things that are not acceptable in your organization?
• 0:21
  So what do we do when we're trying to do business with
• 0:24
  someone, We're trying to have a business relationship with
• 0:26
  someone. They're kind of hinting, they're
• 0:28
  kind of nudging, they're kind of pushing, they want us to do
• 0:32
  something. It's against our policy, it's
• 0:34
  against our principles, it's against our ethics.
• 0:37
  It's something we would rather not do.
• 0:40
  So what do you do when you are in that situation?
• 0:43
  So that's what we are going to discuss today.
• 0:47
  Oh, by the way, let me just make this thing short.
• 0:50
  The answer basically is to call it out and discuss.
• 0:53
  I know some of you don't like that because you don't have to
• 0:56
  be confrontational or whatever, but honestly, the answer is just
• 0:58
  to call it out and discuss. And in a couple of minutes I
• 1:01
  will show you guys how. I'll give some perspectives from
• 1:06
  a sales perspective about how we can call out this thing and have
• 1:10
  this conversation. Because to be honest, it's one
• 1:13
  of these things that will never go away whether we like it or
• 1:16
  not. You're trying to be in a
• 1:17
  relationship with someone, business relationship or
• 1:19
  personal relationship. The person is feeling it one
• 1:21
  way, you're feeling one way. Bush are you are not saying
• 1:24
  anything. She shouldn't open her mouth.
• 1:26
  You don't open your mouth and you think everything be OK.
• 1:29
  One day things will just flare up and then you know, should be
• 1:31
  getting a shout or maybe you're the one that now be provoking.
• 1:34
  Would it provoke anyhow? So whether we like it or not,
• 1:37
  unfortunately we have to be big boys and big girls.
• 1:40
  We have to call it out. We have to discuss and we're
• 1:43
  going to figure out how we can do that.
• 1:47
  My name is Tavishima Ayede, I'm the host of the podcast.
• 1:50
  Just in case you would, you would, in case you'd love to
• 1:53
  connect with me so you can find me over on LinkedIn.
• 1:56
  That's where I can get your questions there.
• 1:59
  Then you can also connect with me by calling, send me a text
• 2:03
  message or a WhatsApp message on 08064662140.
• 2:12
  So if you have questions, if you have comments, if you have
• 2:14
  queries or you want to suggest a collaboration, then please reach
• 2:17
  out. Oh, by the way, need to mention
• 2:21
  that I am not Yoruba. Now my surname sounds Yoruba.
• 2:27
  Well, at least it's spelled like, you know, Yoruba name, you
• 2:29
  know, IED, but it's not IED. And that's because you know,
• 2:33
  some, you know, someone you call and then you start speaking
• 2:36
  language immediately. You know, yes, I use some few
• 2:39
  Yoruba words here and there and it's just because from about 13,
• 2:43
  I spent some time in Lagos from 13 to about let's say like 1918
• 2:49
  and then moved to Ilay fair. So I've been around those
• 2:53
  places. I know one or two words.
• 2:55
  I do not speak the language. So you don't understand that.
• 2:59
  You know, on the podcast, we keep it nice, we keep it casual.
• 3:03
  You know, you guys feel like you know me, so you just call me.
• 3:05
  I start speaking Yoruba immediately, like, you know,
• 3:06
  slow down. I'm not Yoruba.
• 3:08
  I'm actually to you, my name is Tavi Shima.
• 3:13
  Maybe I say it too quick and some of you think my name is
• 3:16
  Tavishino or something because I remember when I was in OAU,
• 3:19
  there's actually this guy Oyoko, what's his name?
• 3:23
  Tunde Tunde Oyoko in medicine who were both jammies together.
• 3:27
  And then he started calling me Tavishino and Hindi.
• 3:31
  Tavishino and Hindi. So that was like my hero band
• 3:34
  name. And there was this other guy,
• 3:36
  Chike, laughing gas. Then he used to call me Tave
• 3:39
  Chima, you know, As for Igbo people, you know, Chima now he's
• 3:42
  always calling me a Tave Chima. I can't remember what the
• 3:44
  surname was. So.
• 3:46
  But yeah, those of you who call, you know, begin the flow in
• 3:49
  Yoruba, like relax, I'm not Yoruba.
• 3:52
  So I say, let me just say it because somebody actually called
• 3:55
  me a couple of moments ago. And that's how the thing was,
• 3:57
  you know, you just called and then start entering Yoruba.
• 3:59
  You know, I don't, I don't speak Yoruba.
• 4:02
  Unfortunately, I don't speak Igbo either.
• 4:06
  All right, now, yeah. What do you do when a client is
• 4:09
  nudging you to do things that are not acceptable in your
• 4:12
  organization, not acceptable with your principles, not
• 4:15
  acceptable with your business? Now all you have to do is you
• 4:17
  just have to call it out and discuss because when you have
• 4:20
  pent up emotions, it leads to frustration and in business, and
• 4:25
  it is very, very bad. The reason why it is bad is now
• 4:28
  let's forget mental health. The reason why it's bad is
• 4:31
  because the thing messes with your money.
• 4:33
  You cannot be making money. You cannot be entering into good
• 4:37
  business relationships. If there are some things that
• 4:40
  are, you know that they're not facilitating smooth
• 4:45
  communication. So you are not communicating
• 4:48
  well. You are not vibing.
• 4:49
  You know you're not, you know, you know, I say that for complex
• 4:54
  sales. You need to close business deals
• 4:55
  one step at a time. If we're not working in
• 4:58
  lockstep, then it is messing with our money.
• 5:02
  So it's bad for business growth. And that's why we have to call
• 5:05
  it out and discuss because if this thing will not work, we
• 5:08
  need to break up now that none of us is heavily invested.
• 5:15
  So personal relationships, business relationships, all
• 5:18
  joined is all the same. So you're with this babe, you're
• 5:21
  with this guy and you may be kind of like each other.
• 5:24
  You think he's kind of cute, You think she's kind of sexy, she
• 5:27
  kind of fine. And you know, maybe, maybe,
• 5:29
  maybe, but then maybe she is a Muslim man.
• 5:33
  She says, you know, she will never marry a Christian.
• 5:35
  And you know, for you, you think that Christ is the way, the
• 5:38
  truth and the life. Or maybe you're a club boy, for
• 5:40
  instance, and then you want the Muslim a chick to now, you know,
• 5:45
  come over on weekends or something.
• 5:47
  You know, whatever the issue is like this on tension.
• 5:52
  You want ten time to relationship with somebody, but
• 5:54
  somebody is nudging you to do something that is not
• 5:56
  acceptable. Call it out and discuss.
• 5:59
  This thing will only get worse in personal relationship.
• 6:03
  Now the same thing in business. If you think you want to do
• 6:07
  business with this person, the person is asking you to do one
• 6:10
  or two things and in your mind you're clearly this thing is
• 6:13
  unethical. Now this thing is criminal, but
• 6:16
  you keep quiet. What do you think?
• 6:19
  Do you think after three months of being in business, six
• 6:21
  months, one month, one year, 2 years, three years, you think it
• 6:24
  will get any easier? You'll get harder and you run
• 6:30
  the chance that you start compromising your principles so
• 6:32
  you move on like yourself. So call it out early and discuss
• 6:36
  if this is going to be a deal breaker.
• 6:38
  Let us end it now. So you have Muslim, a chick
• 6:42
  you're liking, a club boy, he's saying come over.
• 6:44
  You need to discuss this thing early.
• 6:47
  Now when you say come over, is this what you mean?
• 6:50
  This is what you mean. I'm sorry, it's against my
• 6:52
  religion. Then end it.
• 6:55
  So the same thing in business. Now these kinds of problems, you
• 7:01
  know, frustrations or whatever, how do I put it?
• 7:08
  OK, all kinds of business problems happen because we have
• 7:11
  on met expectations. That means I'm expecting
• 7:14
  something. There's something I want,
• 7:15
  there's something you want, but you're not getting your own
• 7:18
  share me. I'm not getting my own share
• 7:20
  this problem then undisclosed expectations.
• 7:24
  There's something I want, but I didn't open my full mouth to
• 7:27
  tell you that look in this business relationship, this is
• 7:30
  what I want causes problem then OK, I'll I put it and Risha,
• 7:39
  unmet expectations, you know, undisclosed expectations,
• 7:42
  unrevealed expectations. There's something in my mind I'm
• 7:46
  not saying it or there's something in your mind you're
• 7:48
  not saying it. Not good for business at all.
• 7:52
  So because of that, that is the reason why those of us who are
• 7:55
  sales professionals and that's why sales training is good for
• 7:59
  every business, business person because those also are sales
• 8:02
  professionals. We have to become very good at
• 8:05
  setting expectations in sales. When I'm trying to sell
• 8:08
  something, I have to be very good at saying what's in my mind
• 8:11
  or in my employer's mind that this is what we were expecting
• 8:15
  so that it is clear, so that tomorrow won't collect money and
• 8:19
  then you will not be shouting back and forth that I said, I
• 8:21
  said in sales we don't like I said, I said in sales, we want
• 8:26
  to collect our money, clean and then do fulfillment, hand over
• 8:31
  what we promise to you, clean and then no quarrel so that we
• 8:35
  can run and start looking for the next customer.
• 8:38
  So in sales we have to be good at setting expectations.
• 8:41
  It is key in sales. Now we also have to become very
• 8:44
  good at eliciting expectations, getting the person to say what
• 8:49
  is on their mind for that very same reason, because selling is
• 8:53
  hard. So if I'm in front of a client,
• 8:55
  I actually want to bring up what is on their mind so that if it's
• 8:58
  an issue, let's table it now so that when I collect my money, I
• 9:01
  collect my money clean. And when I hand over the product
• 9:06
  or the service, I hand it, you know, smooth, clean so that
• 9:12
  tomorrow I can wake up guilt free and hassle free to start
• 9:16
  chasing a new customer. Because if I'm chasing a new
• 9:19
  customer and then Madame Bigby is calling me Tavishino, the
• 9:23
  thing you delivered yesterday, you know, can you call?
• 9:26
  Can you call on this problem here?
• 9:27
  This problem, you know, nothing will be grating on my
• 9:29
  conscience, will be grating on my nerves like I'm trying to
• 9:31
  chase the next customer. And then you're calling me over
• 9:35
  something that the money you gave me, I've already even
• 9:37
  finished spending it. I've already finished using it
• 9:40
  to go and do school fees is a mental drain.
• 9:43
  So in sales we have to get good. The one that is on my mind will
• 9:48
  table it. The one that's on your mind will
• 9:50
  table it so that by the time we're done, everything is nice
• 9:54
  and clean. Also so that I can come back
• 9:56
  later and say, ah, but I mean, we Oh no long time, blah, blah,
• 9:59
  blah, husband. How the children.
• 10:01
  But I mean, we haven't seen you in a while or how far now and
• 10:04
  then I get a new order. Or what I mean is as if, you
• 10:08
  know, Madam Chenery, you know, I beg that man.
• 10:10
  I'm changing yourself. You know, I've been a chaser
• 10:12
  because of this disease. This disease.
• 10:13
  I beg. Do you have an I'm changing his
• 10:15
  phone number. Then you see we've gotten a
• 10:17
  referral. And then if everything is clean
• 10:20
  between Madame Bigby and Madame Chingery, I can now come back,
• 10:24
  you know, six months later to now.
• 10:26
  I'm saying you know how far we haven't seen you.
• 10:27
  And then we get them to buy again.
• 10:31
  And that is what you call it again.
• 10:33
  I think that's just keep my mind anyway, repeat purchases.
• 10:38
  Shah, that is, ah, forgive me. This is the reason why I need
• 10:44
  the production assistance. So be writing down the proper
• 10:46
  script. Anyway, So Shah, repeat
• 10:49
  business, recurrent income, that is recurrent income, money that
• 10:52
  I can plan on, money that is, you know, coming in every couple
• 10:55
  of months. I know that I'll see Madam Mcbee
• 10:57
  and I know that I'll see Madam Chingy re again.
• 11:00
  So recurrent income or like our tech brothers and sisters like
• 11:03
  to say maximizing customer lifetime value.
• 11:06
  There's not just enough that I collect money from what I've
• 11:08
  been paying today and when I'm changing today, but over the
• 11:12
  course of the lifetime, the business lifetime that will be
• 11:14
  together, how much money can I get from them?
• 11:16
  So if I collect 1.5 from what I'm changing, 1.5 from what I
• 11:19
  make is good, but that 3,000,000 is not enough.
• 11:22
  If I can be collecting that 33 M from them, you know, every year
• 11:27
  is good. At least I wake up next year and
• 11:29
  I know that OK, 3,000,000 came from them last year, 3,000,000
• 11:32
  will come from them this year. So you have to become masterful
• 11:37
  at saying the one that is in your mind, I'm pulling out the
• 11:41
  one that is in their mind. Now you see, this is the reason
• 11:44
  why I keep saying over on the podcast that sales is a
• 11:46
  conversation. And I wish you keep it
• 11:48
  conversational. If we are forming formal,
• 11:51
  formal, formal, you think what I mean?
• 11:53
  We will come up to say what's on her mind.
• 11:57
  We need people to speak freely. So keep it conversational.
• 12:01
  We are in sales. We're trying to close the deal
• 12:04
  now. When we have closed the deal,
• 12:07
  there's a time to be official. So when you're drawing up the
• 12:10
  land documents, drawing up the warranty paper, drawing ahead,
• 12:12
  you can lapse back into formal, formal, formal language.
• 12:15
  But for the purpose of sales, please, let's keep it
• 12:17
  conversational. I'm not saying speak pigeon, and
• 12:21
  I'm not saying be unprofessional.
• 12:23
  I'm just saying be relatable. Let people be able to talk to
• 12:27
  you and then talk to people like a reasonable somebody so that if
• 12:29
  there's something on their chest, they will come out and
• 12:31
  say, oh, ha. And then if you you have issue,
• 12:35
  you'll be able to see your own. So that if there's a problem, we
• 12:37
  end it now, so that if Madam Minka sees me outside, she will
• 12:41
  still respect me. I will still respect her, and
• 12:44
  all is well. In fact, she might not buy from
• 12:46
  me, but she might even refer me to somebody else because she
• 12:49
  would say, you see that guy, you see that Tavishino, that he's
• 12:52
  the correct guy because I showed some character.
• 12:56
  Now, setting expectations just means we're trying to establish
• 13:01
  a few things. We're trying to establish this
• 13:03
  is who I am. We're trying to establish this
• 13:07
  is who you are. We're trying to establish Madam
• 13:10
  Ming, that I'm talking to you. This is what your problem is.
• 13:13
  We're trying to arrive at it. Then we're also trying to figure
• 13:17
  out this out that Madam Mingly, this is how my solution can help
• 13:20
  you. Madam Mingly, this is what I
• 13:24
  hope will be able to help you achieve.
• 13:28
  If we roll this thing out and also try and pull out, Madam,
• 13:33
  you know, what are you expecting in return?
• 13:36
  We have to pull all these things out.
• 13:39
  Now, it's not just enough to pull these things out or to put
• 13:42
  them on the table. We need to get feedback.
• 13:45
  That is why please, Nigerian business owners and salespeople
• 13:48
  get into the habit of asking people.
• 13:51
  The way that I ask it is, you know, am I correct?
• 13:55
  So when you call me up, you know, don't be shocked if you
• 13:57
  hear me say, but actually it's my default.
• 14:00
  I'll say, oh, my name is. So based on what we've
• 14:02
  discussed, I think what we're trying to achieve is blah, blah,
• 14:04
  blah, you know, am I correct? Is that correct?
• 14:06
  That's we may ask it, some of you say is too formal, but you
• 14:10
  need to find a way of getting some feedback.
• 14:14
  So I personally, I just, I just ask, you know, am I correct?
• 14:17
  Is that correct? You know some other variant
• 14:19
  because I want to hear the person and it works because you
• 14:23
  will say, oh, Madam me based on my understanding now this and
• 14:26
  this is the problem. Is that correct?
• 14:28
  Madam? People will say how?
• 14:29
  How can I say that's the problem?
• 14:30
  I already told you that this this is that this item that you
• 14:34
  said item is not even a problem at all.
• 14:36
  One that is painting me is item D.
• 14:39
  When Madam Ming me says that very good.
• 14:40
  You now say, oh, apologies, I'm really sorry about that.
• 14:43
  Now I always carry my pen and paper in front of her.
• 14:46
  I will scratch out item B, sure, and I'll circle item D.
• 14:50
  She now knows that this boy is listening.
• 14:55
  I'm trying to get where she's coming from.
• 14:58
  And Shima, she will see that ah, I'm being understood.
• 15:02
  This boy is following me. So try and tease out this is who
• 15:06
  I am because in saying this is who I am.
• 15:11
  But I make him I say, oh, this is what people stand for.
• 15:14
  Oh, I'm sorry, I was actually looking for somebody else.
• 15:16
  He's good. I know you ended here.
• 15:18
  These are madamically assuming that you are watching or not.
• 15:21
  Then you start this business relationship and therefore,
• 15:23
  months down the line, she's writing nasty reviews on the
• 15:26
  Internet and telling everybody that you're a criminal.
• 15:30
  So these are the things we're trying to pull out.
• 15:32
  This is who I am. Let the person know, then this
• 15:36
  is who you are. It is an issue to say, ah,
• 15:40
  Tavishino, your understanding of this situation actually is not
• 15:43
  correct or you missed out. This, this, this, this is what
• 15:47
  your problem is, or rather, this is my understanding of your
• 15:50
  problem. You know, Madam, are my own
• 15:52
  points. Are we together?
• 15:54
  Am I correct? Have I missed anything?
• 15:57
  Is there something I forgot to mention?
• 16:02
  This is how my solution can help or this is how the product or
• 16:06
  service can help, you know, Does that make sense?
• 16:10
  Is this something you're looking forward to?
• 16:12
  Do you think this is practical? Do you think this is workable?
• 16:15
  Do you think this is feasible? I'm trying to get feedback.
• 16:19
  I'm trying to get hard to say what's on her mind.
• 16:23
  Will it help you to achieve this, solve this problem?
• 16:26
  You see, like I'm trying to pull everything out, everything out
• 16:32
  so salespeople, business owners, get into the habit.
• 16:36
  All these silent, silent things will not help you.
• 16:38
  In fact, 2 episodes ago, I told you people how I was talking to
• 16:41
  your bride back as a wedding photographer.
• 16:43
  She was saying she feels my flow.
• 16:44
  She feels my flow. But me, I'm the professional.
• 16:47
  I knew that even though she was telling me with mouth that she's
• 16:49
  feeling my flow based on the concepts we were discussing for
• 16:52
  wedding photography, I knew that she actually prefers something
• 16:56
  else. See, you are the professional
• 16:59
  here. You're the one who knows what's
• 17:00
  up. You're the one who knows what
• 17:01
  will work and what will not work.
• 17:02
  So don't be, don't be shy, don't be afraid.
• 17:04
  We should be telling our clients.
• 17:06
  We should tell our customers. Now look, based on my, you know,
• 17:09
  this is what you told me. Well, based on our professional
• 17:10
  opinion, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:12
  See it? So that's what I was feeling
• 17:17
  that look, even though this babe is saying she feels my style
• 17:21
  die, by the time we shoot this wedding, they'll be quarrel.
• 17:23
  But The thing is your boy was broke.
• 17:26
  I was broke as hell. And this wedding was in Kaduna
• 17:29
  wasn't KD. So I would have added transport,
• 17:32
  I would have added hotel, you know add hotel money but then
• 17:36
  sleep in the car. You know all these games we
• 17:37
  play, you know, book, you know book, you know 150K for hotel
• 17:45
  room, but then drive to the hotel.
• 17:47
  If you sleep in the car park will harass you.
• 17:49
  You know that's it. You say 150 K already and all
• 17:53
  these small small games. So I was broke and I took this
• 17:57
  thing. I'm no one.
• 17:58
  Behold, the quarrel that started did not have Part 2 quarrel with
• 18:03
  her, quarrel with the groom remaining small choir would have
• 18:07
  even entered the parents because I was broke and afraid.
• 18:12
  If you're feeling like there's something nagging, please in
• 18:15
  your mind, call this thing out for your own Peace of Mind.
• 18:19
  This thing is not good for business growth.
• 18:21
  It's not now how do we call it out?
• 18:26
  Since I spent 20 minutes, then you call it out, Call it out,
• 18:30
  very simple. I've been talking to you guys
• 18:31
  about feedback as you are establishing all the important
• 18:36
  things in this business relationship, as we're
• 18:40
  establishing all the key things, we should be asking for
• 18:42
  feedback. So, yeah, Madam Minkly, you
• 18:46
  know, what's my understanding that when we're talking about
• 18:49
  XYZ and ABC, you know, this was my own understanding, you know,
• 18:54
  is that correct? You're trying to restate what it
• 18:58
  is that you have had or your own understanding should either say
• 19:01
  it is correct or was not correct.
• 19:04
  Now remember, they want you to do something because the
• 19:07
  question was that the client is nudging you.
• 19:10
  You know, nudging is, you know, you stylishly, you know, small,
• 19:14
  small. You're using your elbow just to
• 19:16
  be shifting somebody, you know, small, small.
• 19:18
  It's not, it's not a push. A push is very clear.
• 19:21
  I'm pushing in this direction. It nudges.
• 19:23
  I'm using style to just, you know, move you small, small,
• 19:26
  small. You understand it.
• 19:28
  Nudge is not too obvious. All I'm saying is let us stop
• 19:32
  keeping this the under the cover.
• 19:33
  Let us bring it out, like back to the example of the Muslim man
• 19:36
  who is dating the club boy. When the boy says would you like
• 19:41
  to come over? That's a nudge.
• 19:45
  Bring it out. OK, Come over.
• 19:50
  Abby, when you say come over, what do you mean?
• 19:53
  When I bring it out? Let this one not be a nudge.
• 19:55
  Again. Let this thing be obvious what
• 19:57
  we're talking about. So when I mean what was my
• 20:00
  understanding, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 20:02
  Is that correct? You hear what she has to say
• 20:04
  then you now state. Your own understanding that.
• 20:09
  OK, Madam, I'm getting the impression they actually want us
• 20:14
  to do ABC. Is that correct?
• 20:18
  You're trying to clarify. I remember keeping polite.
• 20:22
  Remember the feedback. Is that correct?
• 20:25
  You now hear what it is that she has to say.
• 20:28
  Because sometimes you think people are nudging you to do
• 20:30
  something unethical, but really they're not.
• 20:33
  Sometimes it's only in your head, but it's good to bring it.
• 20:36
  Let's discuss it. Let's put it on the table.
• 20:39
  If it is not in my head, I want to know.
• 20:42
  Studies will not 'cause problem. In the previous podcast episode,
• 20:47
  I spoke about how one of my clients was a troublesome person
• 20:50
  and when she said she's not paying, he was happy.
• 20:52
  He didn't want chase her again. So you know, it's like that.
• 20:56
  It is one of those problematic issues.
• 20:57
  Let's get out on the table. If it's going to be quarrel and
• 21:00
  you say, you know, do you know, I'm glad, Let me go and look for
• 21:03
  somebody else. So Madame Ming Wei, I'm getting
• 21:07
  the impression that you want us to do blah, blah, blah.
• 21:09
  Is that correct? You hear what it is that you
• 21:13
  are, what it is that she actually has in mind.
• 21:19
  Then there's also one key question you have to ask.
• 21:22
  And this is benefit of my legal training because I'm a former
• 21:25
  lawyer turned business consultant.
• 21:27
  Now, in law, you learn quickly that there is a difference
• 21:30
  between people's positions and people's interests.
• 21:35
  Let me let that sink in. All right, Let me say one more
• 21:39
  time, in law, as a baby lawyer, as a new lawyer, you will learn
• 21:43
  that there's a difference between people's interests and
• 21:46
  their positions. Somebody's position is the is
• 21:49
  the stand, their stand on the matter.
• 21:51
  That look, I'm not moving from this thing, this is what I say
• 21:53
  it is. Then the person's interest is
• 21:56
  the goal that they are trying to achieve.
• 21:58
  Now I learned this the hard way when I was a baby lawyer in
• 22:01
  Kano, my auger sent me to represent one matter.
• 22:06
  So by the time I entered the court now and I opened the file,
• 22:08
  I said this is a straight for something now and this thing
• 22:11
  being caught for months. So I called the other lawyer.
• 22:16
  I said bro what's up now I say look this as I'm looking at this
• 22:20
  a rest straight for something. I'll be how you see him.
• 22:22
  You guys said I had now that he too, he thinks a very straight
• 22:24
  for something because both of us were were juniors.
• 22:28
  And So what we agreed to do was we approached the court to say
• 22:32
  that between two of us, we think that this thing can be settled
• 22:34
  and these are the terms of the settlement that the client will
• 22:37
  vacate the prom premises by so, so, so and so.
• 22:40
  And you know, I can't remember whether I propose I will take
• 22:46
  some money. I'll be there, you know, and I
• 22:47
  can't remember sharp, but you know, amicable.
• 22:50
  So when we stood up now and we said like that, the judge was
• 22:54
  very happy, was very, very happy.
• 22:56
  He said, good, he'll be waiting to hear this kind of thing.
• 22:59
  So he told us that we'll take a date and then we'll come back
• 23:03
  and then we'll now, you know, put everything down on paper and
• 23:05
  then, you know, settle it. And so I left and I shake the
• 23:08
  other guy's hand like, bro, you know, nice doing business with
• 23:11
  you. So we'll see now.
• 23:13
  And then I left and I thought, I've done well.
• 23:18
  Oh, boy. Hey, when I go back to my
• 23:20
  office, when I got back to my office, my organ washed me down.
• 23:26
  Seriously, The guy beginning to shout the guy vex seriously,
• 23:31
  like who gave you authority to some blah blah, The guy really
• 23:37
  hey, serial shouting. Anyway, the long and short of
• 23:42
  the story is this isn't me a good thing that I started
• 23:45
  talking about at the beginning of this podcast.
• 23:46
  Now the my our clients and the other clients, the Yoruba people
• 23:51
  and are based in Kano and your people have this tradition of
• 23:54
  Ebola and Aburu airborne is the older person, the big person.
• 24:00
  Now borough is a smaller person. I know that Yoruba people, they
• 24:02
  don't joke with this airborne something, you know, senior is
• 24:06
  senior, you know, they carry this seniority thing on their
• 24:09
  head a lot. So the person that we're
• 24:14
  representing was the egg more was, you know, the big person
• 24:19
  within the community, well known.
• 24:21
  And then the other person on the other side, the troublemaker was
• 24:24
  the Aboro is the smaller, the smaller person.
• 24:28
  It was a land and property something.
• 24:32
  So what was painting my client was the level of disrespect.
• 24:38
  I thought our client will be happy that I get the
• 24:40
  troublemaker of the land because what I tried to negotiate was
• 24:44
  that, you know, within a month, you know, they will leave the
• 24:46
  land and or whatnot. I was thinking that my client is
• 24:49
  looking at this thing from a business person perspective like
• 24:52
  this miscreant. Let me get him off my land.
• 24:54
  Let me now do what I want with my land.
• 24:56
  I did not know that his position and the interests were
• 25:00
  different. His interest was that who is
• 25:01
  this miscreant? This young boy you do not
• 25:04
  respect your senior. He wanted to use a legal process
• 25:08
  to rubbish this guy. That was the interest.
• 25:14
  So as my boss was talking and I realized that OK, this is what
• 25:17
  is our play. I said OK no problem, let me go
• 25:21
  on and do what it is that I have on Dawn.
• 25:26
  So both of them are Boro older person and sorry.
• 25:31
  Aboro younger person and Ebong older person were quite happy
• 25:35
  being in court in perpetuity. Because the younger person will
• 25:40
  stand his ground like you're older than me but you will not
• 25:42
  write me. I will stand my ground like who
• 25:44
  you be. You are not my father.
• 25:48
  And then the other person too. I was quite happy being in court
• 25:51
  because as far as he's concerned, will you shut off
• 25:53
  your your dirty rat? You're a short rat.
• 25:55
  Like who are you? Where you came to Kano?
• 25:58
  Who are you? Am I not the one that made you?
• 26:01
  So the opposition in court and then the interest that they were
• 26:06
  representing were two separate things entirely.
• 26:12
  So I learned that very, very early and it's something I've
• 26:14
  carried into legal practice. So business consulting,
• 26:19
  sometimes people's position, they think that they are saying
• 26:22
  and then the interests, what they are trying to achieve
• 26:25
  sometimes are not the same thing.
• 26:26
  So it's very important. Now in this case, since you
• 26:29
  think somebody's asking you to do something that is not
• 26:31
  acceptable to your organization, that might be unethical, that
• 26:35
  you are comfortable with, you will not ask the person.
• 26:42
  OK, Madam Ming PE, when you say we should do blah blah blah,
• 26:45
  what are you actually trying to achieve?
• 26:47
  That Madame Echo will say her own by the time you hear her,
• 26:52
  Especially if you're a sharp guy, creative guy, creative
• 26:55
  girl. When you now hear what it is you
• 26:58
  want to she wants to achieve, you cannot propose that.
• 27:00
  Oh, OK, I understand now. If it's like that, we can
• 27:03
  actually achieve the same thing by going about it this other
• 27:07
  way. And they will now avoid this
• 27:10
  ethical implication, this legal implication, this whatever I be.
• 27:14
  How do you feel? And if you did a good job of
• 27:16
  getting mad, I mean, but to say what's on her mind, she'll be
• 27:19
  perfectly happy with this, your solution, because even though
• 27:23
  she doesn't think it's a big issue, she can see that you
• 27:25
  think it's a big issue for her. So it's a big issue for you,
• 27:29
  whether on spiritual grounds or legal grounds or ethical
• 27:31
  grounds. And you know, you'll you'll make
• 27:36
  some, you make some progress. But as you propose what this
• 27:41
  alternative is, ask her, ask for feedback.
• 27:46
  What do you think about that? Would you be willing to explore
• 27:49
  that? Do you think this would achieve
• 27:53
  solve the problem? Do you need to consult with so,
• 27:56
  so, so and so you know about the solution that I proposed.
• 28:01
  You come up with a proposal that is mutually beneficial, that it
• 28:06
  meets the client's interests and it meets your own interests.
• 28:08
  But you're only going to be able to do that because you have been
• 28:11
  able to, you have been able to, to, to, to call out and to pull
• 28:18
  out and to, to tease out everybody's expectations.
• 28:25
  So just remember when we're having this conversation, we'll
• 28:27
  try and be polite about it. You know, no need to be rude as
• 28:30
  we're saying everything we need to be asking for feedback.
• 28:33
  Now, don't do it my own way. If you think my own way is too
• 28:37
  formal because I ask, you know, am I correct?
• 28:40
  Is that correct? Would that be correct?
• 28:42
  What do you think of you know, but anyway, treasure, that's
• 28:46
  that's just how it is. But I mean, was my understanding
• 28:49
  when we're talking that, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 28:51
  This is the problem, this situation, you know, on my own
• 28:53
  points. Am I correct, Benny?
• 28:56
  Yes, you're correct. OK, no problem, man.
• 28:58
  Then, Ma, I beg no vets. The thing is, as we've been
• 29:02
  talking, I'm getting the impression that you actually
• 29:05
  want us to do this, this, this. You know, Madam, I understand
• 29:08
  you correctly. As you say, I have.
• 29:09
  No, Madam, you know Madam, I'm a Christian and you know, based on
• 29:15
  Christian faith, you know I can't blah blah blah or Madam,
• 29:21
  you know that I used to be a lawyer and based on legal
• 29:23
  something, you know that we can't, you know blah blah, blah.
• 29:26
  And she would say that can this thing be a big deal?
• 29:28
  Isn't all Nigeria know we all do this thing.
• 29:31
  Come on, why you behave like this?
• 29:32
  Are you a small boy? And then you laugh it off and
• 29:35
  then it's OK, Madam, when you say we should do it like this,
• 29:38
  actually what is the thing that you're trying to achieve is I'm
• 29:40
  proposing this so that we'll do this, we'll do this, we'll do
• 29:43
  that. Then I say, This is why subject
• 29:46
  matter expertise is really, really important.
• 29:48
  You need to be the expert on what it is you're doing.
• 29:50
  Once you're the expert and you know what the end goal, the end
• 29:54
  goal is, you now know how to propose another solution.
• 29:56
  So oh, Madam, is it like that? You say yes, now that's what I'm
• 29:59
  trying to do, Say I should have said these things.
• 30:00
  Now if it's like that, we'll just do like this, do like this,
• 30:03
  do like this. And then this spiritual issue
• 30:05
  and this legal issue is not there again.
• 30:07
  And I should say, I say yes, no, if you don't believe me, go and
• 30:11
  ask engineers also. And so or you want to talk with
• 30:15
  so and so, you know, like, you know, get some feedback on it.
• 30:18
  Is she on board? Does she need to think about it?
• 30:20
  Does she need to talk with somebody else or whatever and
• 30:22
  put it out there. Then you make progress, but also
• 30:28
  be prepared. Be prepared.
• 30:32
  Let me say one more time, be prepared.
• 30:36
  Be prepared for the other person to say Nope, I don't like it.
• 30:40
  We either do this thing or we don't.
• 30:43
  In that case, it's not up to you.
• 30:45
  If it's Christianity, there's your problem.
• 30:47
  OK, Are you going to stick with your Christian principles and
• 30:50
  follow your Lord and Savior? Be prepared.
• 30:54
  If the money is sweet, be prepared to say no and walk
• 30:59
  away. If you want to stay there, you
• 31:03
  want to save God and mammal, you ought to be collecting millions
• 31:06
  and millions and just know with your own know with your with
• 31:10
  your full chest, just know what it is you're doing now.
• 31:12
  OK, I'm here, I'm compromising my principles.
• 31:14
  I will take this money if it is illegal something because you
• 31:18
  know those of us who studied law, sometimes it can be much
• 31:20
  more touchy than other people like my wife, for instance.
• 31:23
  My wife doesn't understand appreciation.
• 31:26
  My eyes says appreciation is a bribe.
• 31:29
  If you try to appreciate my wife, she will say no, like I
• 31:33
  did my job. There's no need for
• 31:35
  appreciation. So some lawyers can be like
• 31:37
  that. So if based on, you know, your
• 31:41
  legal training, you know, you're touching on one or two things,
• 31:45
  you know, be prepared. If the person says no, that is
• 31:48
  how we'll do it. Be ready to say, OK, no problem.
• 31:52
  And then you stand up and go. If you stay there and continue,
• 31:54
  just know that OK, my legal professional ethics, I am what's
• 31:59
  that word? What is that word?
• 32:03
  Any just not sure that you are abandoning your your legal
• 32:06
  professional ethics. So this is what you do when
• 32:09
  someone is trying to nudge you to do things that are not
• 32:14
  acceptable in your organization. In fact, whether it is
• 32:18
  acceptable or is not acceptable when it comes to sales.
• 32:21
  This is something I tell salespeople all the time.
• 32:24
  And let me say out here, please, in sales, no assumptions.
• 32:29
  We assume nothing. Assumption will put you in
• 32:32
  trouble after you have collected money.
• 32:34
  Now say, ah, Madam, but I thought that I thought would
• 32:37
  keep you in trouble, put you in serious trouble.
• 32:39
  We don't assume anything in sales.
• 32:42
  We bring it out. If you're assuming something,
• 32:46
  call it out. You think the other person is
• 32:48
  assuming something, call it out. Honestly, I should have saved
• 32:52
  myself stress as a young wedding photographer back then.
• 32:56
  I should have saved myself stress on that fateful occasion.
• 32:59
  I said, I've told her, look, Madam, you've been saying you
• 33:02
  feel me, you like it and this is an app.
• 33:04
  But you know, Madam, to be honest, based on the things
• 33:07
  we're saying, I'm feeling as if this is the kind of photography
• 33:10
  you need. This is what you like.
• 33:12
  These are the kind of portrait ideas.
• 33:13
  I know what not that you like. So like, what do you think is
• 33:16
  actually what you're looking for?
• 33:17
  I should have said it honestly because she might have said,
• 33:22
  yes, this is what I want. Yes, exactly, and I tell her OK,
• 33:25
  honestly, I can't do that. These are the kinds of things I
• 33:28
  can do instead. And who knows maybe you should
• 33:30
  like me because we'll be viable. I should say Oh yeah.
• 33:35
  Well, any I trust you if you say you can't do these bodies what
• 33:38
  you can do OK, it's no problem. Let's be going.
• 33:41
  That would have been a much better deal now for me to have
• 33:43
  stayed there have assuming something like something is is
• 33:49
  pricking my conscience. But then just because I want
• 33:52
  this on small coins, I ended up quarreling with her acquired
• 33:56
  with her husband remaining small.
• 33:58
  Her parents would have now put mouth in the matter.
• 34:02
  Me personally, sometimes I I don't think it's worth it.
• 34:05
  And I don't know, I've not been faced with a situation where
• 34:07
  maybe 400 million is on the line and then they want me to
• 34:12
  compromise on something here there.
• 34:15
  I've not been on that situation yet, but let me say it now as a
• 34:18
  small boy, let me say it now that do the right thing when the
• 34:21
  time comes and I'm in front of, you know, 500 million, I'll,
• 34:25
  I'll let you know how it goes, whether I compromise or I don't
• 34:27
  compromise, but you know, now these things can be anyway, so
• 34:31
  that's it. Thanks for listening.
• 34:33
  I'll catch you all some other time.
• 34:34
  Remember, if you have questions, you have comments, you have
• 34:36
  queries, you can call, send me a text message or a WhatsApp
• 34:41
  message on 08064662140. So thank you very much for your
• 34:48
  time and attention. I'll catch you all some other
• 34:49
  time. And Please remember, I'm not
• 34:51
  Yoruba. And and you know, yeah, I like
• 34:54
  to be cool with y'all, but I'm not Yoruba.
• 34:55
  So when you pick up the phone, don't just start speaking
• 34:58
  language, you know, like that. Let's keep in English, you know,
• 35:02
  for for now. I'm, I can't follow on that
• 35:05
  Yoruba level yet. Maybe before I run for
• 35:07
  president, I have to learn how to speak one or two Nigerian
• 35:10
  languages so that campaigning will be a lot easier.
• 35:13
  All right, so that's it. Catch you guys later.