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Stop Trying to Change Your Behavior (Do This Instead) · Not All Business

0:00
Why do we keep repeating the same patterns even when we know
0:04
better? I walked into a meeting last
0:05
month fully planning to just listen 30 seconds and I'm
0:09
already talking over everyone. Today we are talking to Lindsay
0:13
Ferris, therapist and former Microsoft exec.
0:16
You're going to hear how she escaped those golden handcuffs.
0:18
And we're also talking about breaking those patterns that
0:21
just keep you stuck. Lindsay.
0:23
Literally wrote the book How to Smell Your Own Shit before
0:26
stepping into it again. So if you're also ready to stop,
0:30
stop repeating those same mistakes over and over again,
0:32
this episode's for you. Welcome to Not All Business, a
0:36
podcast by two former CEO's who went from competitors to
0:39
friends. I'm Blakely Graham and my Co
0:41
host is Heather Cooper, and we're joined by our producer
0:44
Clay Cornell. So let's go.
0:54
I do want to acknowledge something to our listeners.
0:57
We gave it how many months? How many episodes?
1:01
1516 This is episode 18 or 19. 18 or 19, I can't keep track.
1:07
Anyway, are you, are you having fun, Blakely?
1:09
Do you want to keep doing this? I recommit to you, Heather.
1:13
Thank you every year. Thank you, MO.
1:15
OK, shout out to that. Clay, are you in, are you in for
1:18
another year, this Happy New Year?
1:19
I'm in. Let's go.
1:20
Are you in I? Buttoned up my shirt, I'm ready
1:22
to go. He's ready.
1:24
He's a new man. It's a new year.
1:26
It's the year of not all business, the year of the horse,
1:30
right? Have you seen all that stuff
1:31
going around like last year was the year of the snake, the
1:34
shedding, whatever. This year's the year of the
1:36
horse. I don't know a lot about that
1:37
stuff. But what I will say is we're
1:39
going to charge forward, but. I really like Charge money
1:43
forward. Yes, we're going to charge.
1:45
So much money on your credit card.
1:47
You got one right in the name of the business.
1:49
OK, perfect. No, I'm serious though.
1:52
Like I I've enjoyed so much as the more episodes we've done,
1:55
the comments that we've been getting from people, the sticky
1:59
situations they've been submitting, the fun little
2:02
banter like making fun of us. And just like shout out to tuna
2:06
fish girl who? Just I was about to say.
2:08
Did you see the tuna fish ground?
2:11
Good shit, yeah. But I just want her to know.
2:14
I love a pescatarian. I love the pescatarian.
2:18
I just can you give some context?
2:20
What is the tuna fish comment? We said leave your tuna at home.
2:24
We said air. We said no tuna in the in the
2:27
work kitchen because it smells and it's like airplane rules and
2:31
pesky, Pescatarian said. I disagree.
2:36
No, she was defending her right to be a pescatarian.
2:40
I. Thought that she should.
2:41
Convert her, which I would never try to do.
2:44
And then she made fun of our grease hour.
2:46
I'm like claiming all meat eaters our greasy smell of a
2:50
hamburger, which she's right. I didn't see that part.
2:52
OK. Can I read this?
2:53
Can I read it? Yeah.
2:55
Oh, you have it. I have it right here.
2:56
OK, This is. I'm going to.
2:58
I'm going to say their screen name.
3:01
It's Charlie. Wiggles her ears.
3:04
Love it. Wait, can you anyone do that?
3:07
My mom can do it. OK, yeah, OK, so intense video,
3:11
kind of like, hey, leave your stuff out of the office
3:16
microwave. Yeah, it was a sticky situation,
3:19
it. Was a sticky situation but sound
3:21
advice. I would say the majority of the
3:22
people agree with this. Yeah.
3:25
She does not feel this way. This comment, Charlie wiggles
3:27
her ears, says. Nah.
3:30
I've been a pescetarian for years.
3:33
I'm not changing my diet because you all do not like it.
3:37
I'll be eating my fish right next to you with your giant
3:41
greasy burger. Deal with it.
3:44
I love the giant greasy burger so much because I'm not eating a
3:47
giant greasy burger at work either.
3:51
That is hilarious. I do stand by I I will she can
3:54
eat it. I will probably leave the room,
3:56
but I I think fish kind of is the way to go.
4:01
I will tell like not, and I mean, I always love it because
4:04
I'm doing this gut health thing like new year, new me thing.
4:08
Don't worry. It's not like a weight loss like
4:10
aspirational bullshit goal. I know you don't believe in
4:12
resolution. It's one of these goals that is
4:14
going to be done by February 1st.
4:16
You know what the goal is. Ask her again in two weeks,
4:18
guys. You know what the goal is?
4:20
The goal is to not grow 2 pant sizes after my first five bites
4:23
of food. That's my goal.
4:25
My goal is to get out of maternity pants.
4:27
My kids are 20 and 22. OK.
4:29
Every meal I just, I have this reaction.
4:33
And so they're telling me eat more fish, They eat more fish,
4:37
eat less bread. This is not rocket science.
4:38
This is like caveman kind of stuff.
4:40
But they have me doing this test. 24 hour caveman is the
4:45
paleo diet. I think that's eat more meat.
4:47
I think fish is not. I mean, they do.
4:51
I'm just saying I don't think it's the.
4:52
Cave. Because there were no lakes, the
4:53
Cavemen weren't fishing. Is that what you're thinking?
4:55
I'm not saying they didn't also eat fish, I'm just.
4:58
Saying I think it's, it's protein.
5:02
Paleo like paleontology? The The Paleo diet.
5:06
You can't eat fish on Paleo. You can.
5:09
Eat fish on the paleo diet. My point was.
5:12
I don't think eating. Fish is nicknamed paleo.
5:15
I was just trying to whatever. Right.
5:17
OK, I got you're. Eating fish to get rid of your
5:21
bloat. That's what you're saying.
5:23
I'm trying so many things. Anyway, the doctor, she keeps
5:27
saying stupid things like stop eating processed foods.
5:31
I'm like, I don't even really eat processed foods.
5:33
Turns out, yes I do because in this 24 hours where she's like
5:37
you can only eat poultry, fish, meat, white rice and a potato.
5:46
And I'm really struggling with it because she told me I can't
5:49
now on a regular day. Would I struggle with that?
5:51
I don't know but because. Your doctor and my doctor are
5:54
going to get in a fight like my doctor would not.
5:56
Does your doctor let me eat crackers?
5:59
No. And.
6:00
Cook white rice. Remember what I said.
6:02
The whiter the bread, the closer to dead.
6:04
Like, so your doctor's worse? I'm not.
6:05
No, no thanks on your doctor. I'm just saying it's only for 24
6:09
hours that I have to do this. OK, now.
6:14
Your body. Shaving me and I love you.
6:17
So I'm going to let it pass just this once, But my question is,
6:22
OK, is it harder when someone tells you you can't do
6:26
something? Do you want it more?
6:27
Like, is that what's happening to me?
6:28
Like I'm walking by my pantry going I can't have bread, but
6:31
now I really want it, but they told me I can't have it.
6:33
Is that like a psychological thing?
6:34
Yeah, we'll have to ask our guests that question.
6:37
That definitely sounds like some kind of therapy diagnosis.
6:41
Can I weigh in before the therapist just to get my take
6:45
out of the way? Just a man on the street.
6:47
Take. What do you say, Clay?
6:48
Yeah. OK man on the street take is
6:50
Heather. You do not like being told what
6:53
to do, what you, what you want to do, or what you cannot do.
6:58
He's so true. Better than like a man on the
7:01
street take. That's like I've known you for a
7:03
long time and I'm going to call you on your shit take and she is
7:06
going. She's going to come after you
7:08
today. Play.
7:09
You are not safe today. Except he's totally right.
7:13
But that's the thing, not. Know it, but we want to say it,
7:16
Heather. No one's trying to cheat.
7:19
I'm not trying to change you, I'm just pointing out what I
7:22
think I see right now. Well, I don't need to be
7:24
changed. There's nothing wrong with with
7:27
this, right? OK.
7:28
But what you were yes, correct. I know it's not a great trait.
7:33
No, I'm not even saying that at all.
7:35
I'm just saying you're having a conflict with your doctor
7:39
because you feel like you're being limited or pushed in a
7:44
direction and you don't like that.
7:47
I don't like it. I don't know if it's the age, I
7:49
don't know if it's the the fucking nurses calling every
7:52
like every time a new blood test comes back, I get a new nurse
7:54
who's not, doesn't know me, doesn't know she's like your
7:56
test came in, you should maybe not do this.
7:59
And the next one calls back. Yeah, this test came in.
8:01
You should do that. I'm like, can you talk to each
8:03
other? Can you circle up and give me
8:05
one answer and call me back? Like that kind of stuff I just
8:07
don't have patience for anymore. Can y'all get on the same page?
8:11
Would you rather get? It so I know.
8:12
Would you rather get a call that says like, hey, you're in the
8:15
bottom 50% or the top 50%, figure it out.
8:18
Or would you rather be told here's the specific issue?
8:23
Specific issue. OK, but they're not telling you
8:26
what's going on. No, they're giving me the
8:28
fucking the play by play. Tell me when we're done.
8:30
Tell me when you get all the results back, then you tell me.
8:33
I mean, do tell me I don't have cancer.
8:36
Thank you. I don't.
8:37
But like, I guess I'll take that call, but don't tell me what
8:40
levels of triglycerides versus this like that's I just just
8:44
get, get the report, send me, just go.
8:46
On a statin and be done with it. Tell me and then eat all your
8:50
white rice. White bread, 70 years old.
8:52
What do you mean just statin what it what is?
8:54
What is that? Are you kidding?
8:55
It's the number one killer for women is heart disease.
8:58
It's the number one killer. And eating the burger.
9:00
I told you I don't even eat the burgers.
9:02
And. I'm just saying it starts at
9:05
people your your age. My age, which is very much
9:13
younger than your age. Okay, quick as a therapist in
9:17
your immediately. Okay, we need help we might need
9:20
a little relationship heading into this new year, new US, but
9:24
also. We having a new Yeah, us.
9:27
We are leave your comments, though, I want us before we
9:29
bring on the guest load. I I even got on this book and
9:32
rabbit trail was because we were having so much fun with the
9:34
comments people and we want more of that.
9:36
So please do that. We're going to have another
9:38
sticky situation episode in 3-4 weeks, I think, and so think and
9:42
pile us up so we can choose from them because that's so fun.
9:45
We want to get through at least like 10 or 15 of them.
9:47
So please send. Them and Charlie wiggle your
9:50
ears like send us a video. Yeah.
9:53
Keith, let's get that on there. Get down to the bottom of this
9:56
pescatarianism. I love it.
9:58
But first let's work on mine and Blakelys relationship.
10:00
We need to set a better foundation.
10:02
So you wanted to do some guest? Yeah, I will.
10:05
OK. Let me do that.
10:06
I love you. Love.
10:08
You. Our guest today is Lindsay
10:11
Ferris, a woman who knows a thing or two about reinvention.
10:14
After two decades in the tech industry, with roles at
10:17
Microsoft and Apple, plus running her own event production
10:21
business, Lindsay made a gutsy pivot.
10:24
She went back to school, earned her masters degree, and became a
10:27
licensed therapist. Thank goodness, because we need
10:29
her today. Today, she owns Talk He'll
10:32
Thrive, A thriving group therapy practice in Washington state,
10:35
and recently launched Brain Genome, A pharmacogenomics
10:40
platform basically using your DNA to understand how your body
10:44
responds to mental health medications.
10:46
So cool. She's also the newly published
10:49
author of How to Smell Your Own Shit Before Stepping into it
10:54
again. Lindsay, welcome to Not All
10:57
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11:59
Hi. Lindsay, welcome.
12:02
OK, that book title is fantastic.
12:05
Yeah, I have it. Was I, I, I had mixed reviews.
12:09
I decided to just go with it because I didn't think anybody
12:11
would pick up a book that said how to change or make change.
12:15
I was like, well, I'm going to go with what I'd call it, what
12:19
it really is it. Was against it.
12:21
Who didn't want to And some. People thought the title was
12:24
crass or it was, you know, I think there's a like I, I, it's
12:28
very conversational in the book. It's kind of the process of
12:31
change that I see clients like a consistent process that I see
12:35
and I try to put it in easy to understand terms.
12:37
A lot of self help books, there's wonderful ones out
12:39
there, but they're, they're really clinical and sometimes
12:42
it's hard to grasp the concepts. And so I, I swear in session
12:45
with clients, I'm very just, I try to use, you know, analogy
12:49
and metaphor and all of those things.
12:51
And so the book was just like, was kind of brainstorming and
12:53
I'm like, it's really kind of how to smell your own shit.
12:55
And I don't know if I should do that title.
12:58
So I just went with it. I love that you did that.
13:00
I love that you did that. What was that one that had fuck
13:02
in the title? It's a self help.
13:04
Book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.
13:07
Yes, the subtle art of not giving a fuck.
13:08
Yeah. And of course that catches my
13:10
eye. And I like bought it for my kids
13:13
and they thought I was so crazy. They're like, Oh my gosh, mom,
13:15
you whatever. I'm like.
13:16
But it's true. It does catch your attention.
13:18
And I think people are craving real talk.
13:22
Obviously, that's why we're doing this podcast.
13:25
So what's the what's the elevator pitch on the book?
13:28
Tell us about it. It's basic.
13:30
It's kind of a mix of and a collective mix of different
13:33
therapy models that I put into conversational tone about you
13:37
have to, you can't make change in yourself until you have
13:39
awareness. So this isn't an elevator.
13:41
This is a long elevator ride. There's like a a 63 elevator
13:43
ride the elevator just. Got stuck so we're going to be
13:46
here once. Got stuck.
13:47
So we're so it's the process of change.
13:50
So it's kind of a steps where you have to go through
13:52
awareness. Like people talk about making
13:54
change and there's, you know, willpower and different things,
13:56
but it's actually beyond that. It's saying you, you have to
13:58
decide what's not working for you and then start to observe
14:03
what those patterns are and start to catch those automatic
14:05
thoughts, behaviors, reactions, emotions that are coming up.
14:09
So it's this the process of awareness.
14:11
And once you have awareness, what do you do with that?
14:13
And then how do you have discernment to decide?
14:15
How do you want to choose to response?
14:17
Because you're automatic responses feel like your
14:20
intuition or your gut, or they feel like what you should be
14:22
doing, or you feel like your emotion is convincing.
14:25
And what it does is say it says you have awareness.
14:27
Now you need to pause and say, is this actually how I want to
14:30
respond or how I want to show up?
14:32
But you can't make that change without awareness.
14:34
So then it talks through the process of discernment how to
14:36
make change. And then it goes into aspects of
14:39
let. Me pause.
14:39
You there? Yeah, just for real quick
14:41
because I love this. I read it about it in your bio
14:45
and it stopped me in my tracks because I am so famous for
14:48
saying like to my kids. Well, what does your gut say?
14:51
Not even just my kids employees when we're at a when we're at a
14:54
crossroads, I'm like, OK, well, what does your gut say?
14:56
What is your thing? I'm always trying to say and I
14:58
but there's a lot of truth in this too.
15:00
But just like listening to the quiet still voice, listening to
15:03
your inner voice, getting in contact with that.
15:05
But if you if you don't do the work to figure out where that
15:10
voice is coming from, so like that awareness of like what, who
15:14
is that inner voice talking? Is that like a broken inner
15:16
child that is needing praise and attention or, you know, seeking
15:20
perfectionism to that? And so we can so easily say
15:23
that's my gut. But if you don't do the pause
15:25
that you're suggesting, you could end up on a wrong Rd.
15:28
thinking you're going with your gut but actually you're
15:29
continuing an unhealthy pattern. Go ahead.
15:32
I just. No, you're, you're absolutely
15:34
nailed it. And so a lot of times we'll take
15:37
anxiety or we'll take a fear and uncertainty.
15:40
And so it'll show up in behaviors that you find you
15:42
don't like. Maybe it becomes you're
15:44
controlling of environments and then you have irritability with
15:46
it and you're like, I don't, I don't, it doesn't feel good that
15:48
I behave this way, but this is this is the only way I know how.
15:52
You don't think that there's other options when you you can't
15:54
actually change that until you unpack it a little bit.
15:56
So the first step of it is really just slowing down and
15:59
noticing there's nothing to do you, you can't do anything till
16:02
you notice it. That's the hardest part of
16:03
change, is actually that awareness.
16:05
I appreciate you saying that because if I could just do an
16:08
first of all, this is the third time we've had someone on our
16:11
show that has talked about the great pause.
16:13
And I feel like in my own journey, I have met I, I'm at
16:19
that awareness phase. So the fact that you just said
16:21
that, that was the hardest part. I feel really good about it.
16:23
But I have been stuck at the pause for probably about five
16:26
years now. So that's OK.
16:28
You could, it's OK. No, the pause.
16:31
It's more than a pause, though. Still comes out a lot.
16:34
Well, but it's more than a pause.
16:35
Blakely never likes to be told what to do.
16:39
It's really great. That's you.
16:41
Oh, that's right, that was. Me, I'm just bitchy.
16:43
It's very different. But the pause, the fact that you
16:48
have it. So there's three parts of
16:49
awareness, right? So there's, I'm going to
16:50
describe it as first, you have the you're, you catch the
16:53
behavior. So you catch it.
16:54
So you let's say you go and you're being bitchy and you say
16:58
it feels like shit. I don't like being bitchy.
16:59
I don't like the way I feel about my this is about what you
17:01
want to change, not what other people tell you.
17:03
This is about what doesn't feel right to you, like how you're
17:05
showing up in the world. So you go, I don't like how I
17:07
reacted that way. I don't like how I behaved.
17:10
The pause isn't just about going.
17:11
I paused and I noticed I didn't like it.
17:13
It's actually about being curious about what's coming up.
17:16
It's saying I don't like how I behaved.
17:18
Now you go. What happened?
17:20
What was going on? What did I notice in my body?
17:22
So you're actually being kind of investigative about what
17:25
happened. So you're actually learning
17:27
about the the cues for the behavior.
17:28
So it might be something I was irritable and what I noticed as
17:31
I started to get heat in my chest, I started to feel like
17:34
agitated in my body. I started to feel like, oh hell
17:38
no, you didn't do this or, you know, whatever those things are,
17:41
you have to start to have that awareness around the entire
17:44
energy that's coming up around it.
17:45
So the pause is great to be able to do that, but you have to do
17:48
something with it. So you have to kind of use it as
17:50
a tool to find out what's going on.
17:52
And then the next phase of it is actually when you're actually
17:54
doing the action. Like have you ever with your
17:56
awareness or some of this, have you ever had that where you're
17:59
watching yourself do the thing you don't want to do?
18:02
So you watch yourself being irritable or bitchy or snarky or
18:05
whatever it is. And that's the behavior you want
18:08
to change and you're doing it. And there's this little part of
18:11
you going, I'm like, you're falling and you're going, I'm
18:13
doing it and I don't know how to stop it, but I'm in the process
18:16
of doing it. Does this present at all?
18:18
I did, I literally did that 10 minutes ago right before the
18:21
podcast because my son lovely, he stops in once in a while home
18:25
from the mountain and I have three things that I really need
18:28
to hear from him. And I, I know I have 15 minutes.
18:32
And so instead of just listening to him and he like, and I did
18:35
this really jump and it was really cool.
18:36
I'm just like, yeah, but did you get your license plates, like to
18:40
sort it out? Like because yeah, I really, I
18:41
got you there for this. And I need to know because I got
18:43
to get the insurance and I'm like, mm, hmm, cool jump.
18:46
And I actually do care about the jump.
18:47
And I know better that if, you know, in 10 years, I'm not going
18:51
to remember if he got his license plate thing fixed or
18:53
not. It's going to be did I listen to
18:55
him? Did he feel heard?
18:55
Did he still loved? And as I'm telling myself to
18:58
appreciate and listen to the story, I'm saying, OK, that's
19:02
cool. But can we pause for a minute?
19:03
And did you get the light? Like I'm actively doing exactly
19:07
what I know. And you're like, I'm literally
19:09
like, what's happening right now?
19:10
I'm doing the thing that I'm. So that's actually, that's
19:12
actually what I call Phase 2 of awareness.
19:15
When you can start seeing it happening.
19:17
You can't catch it early enough because you're in autopilot.
19:20
That's actually the second phase of awareness.
19:22
And so then the third phase is actually starting to catch the
19:25
nuances before you do it. So if you have awareness while
19:28
you're doing it, you want to get curious about it.
19:30
So you did it, you did the thing and then you break it down the
19:33
same way you did with the pause after.
19:35
So all of these are actually, they're instruments, mental and
19:38
how you make change because you can't make change if you don't
19:40
know where to insert new behavior and change is
19:43
uncomfortable. And you do think when you make
19:45
change behavior, you're going to do something where you don't do
19:47
the snarky comment or don't tell your son to do the thing they
19:50
want. And you're going to likely have
19:51
a reaction in your body. That's like, this is not what I
19:54
should be doing. I should be responding in the
19:55
way that I always do because your body and your nervous
19:58
system is used to responding the same way.
20:01
So you have to have the awareness enough to catch it
20:03
before you do the behavior. So in it's actually a good sign.
20:07
The next step would be to slow it down and see if you can start
20:09
leading up to it. And then you pause and make a
20:11
conscious, A discerning choice. How do I want to respond to
20:15
this? Even though I feel like I want
20:16
to do this other thing, I'm going to choose to respond a
20:19
different way and sit in the discomfort of that choice.
20:22
And so that's where that final step of awareness is catching
20:25
it, where you can actually make a different choice.
20:27
Well, I love how you're saying you, you have, you can't make
20:30
change until you can insert the new behavior.
20:33
And so is that something that you're deciding ahead of time?
20:37
Is that something that's on the fly?
20:39
Like how how are you knowing what behavior to insert?
20:42
Like am I running through that? Like, should I just be quiet?
20:44
Should I like or is that like it was something you go into it
20:47
with a plan like when I want to control the situation I need to
20:50
do X like. Well, you probably, if you think
20:53
about it intuitively, let me ask you in that circumstance, what
20:56
would feel more aligned to you and how you want to show up if
20:59
you were to just think of that example?
21:02
Just not worry about the license plate thing and just listen to
21:06
his story knowing that I have 15 more minutes to spend with him
21:10
and I don't know when I'll see him again.
21:12
So just listen and be present and not worry.
21:14
About so you already know what it is.
21:16
So that pause of catching it, it's like it's, it's and
21:19
essentially we just did that exercise of recognizing what
21:22
happened. And you just said, I'd rather
21:24
you already know innately what that, what, how you'd prefer to
21:26
respond or how you'd prefer to show up.
21:28
So you take that and you go, OK, I just learned.
21:31
So self compassion is huge here. There's nothing wrong with what
21:34
you're, what you're doing in your response.
21:35
It's just learn patterns of how you react to your the
21:38
environment. But you're saying, I don't like
21:40
the way that makes me feel. I don't like how I'm responding
21:42
and I want to show up where I'm listening and more present.
21:44
So the next time this comes up, you've already said that that's
21:48
what you want to do. You notice it.
21:50
And if you're able to catch it, you're going, OK, I want to show
21:53
up where I'm a little bit more present in this environment.
21:56
It might. It takes several times.
21:57
OK, I'm a slow learner. So I literally had to have my
22:00
therapist. This is years ago.
22:01
I'd have my therapist write down, literally write down a
22:03
script for me because I was, I'm slow, slower than any of my
22:07
clients. It is.
22:08
So I'm better now because I've learned I've learned it.
22:11
But it you, you really have to be able to catch that and do you
22:15
can do a quick check. How would I prefer to respond?
22:17
How would the authentic version of myself want to respond right
22:21
now? And that's going to give you
22:22
your true answer. Not that, not the anxiety.
22:24
That's where that discerning comes in.
22:26
Not the pissed off or the urgency.
22:27
Like that's my urgency. And that's why I say the
22:29
awareness isn't my fear is talking, my anxiety is talking,
22:33
but really how I want to show up right now, always more authentic
22:36
and I'm going to behave. I'm essentially what I call is
22:39
walking the walk. You're you behave in the way
22:41
that you want to behave while you still have that little
22:44
shitty voice on your shoulder telling you you should say the
22:46
other things or the anxiety talking to you.
22:48
And you choose to respond in a way that's the way that you want
22:51
to show up in the world. And the more that you do that,
22:54
you're actively rewiring. You have the neuroplasticity
22:57
concept, you're actively rewiring a new way of
23:00
responding. So the first few times you do it
23:02
is the hardest. In time, it starts to become
23:05
easier. That crappy voice starts to get
23:07
less that that old way of behaving starts to get less, and
23:11
you start creating these new pathways that respond
23:14
differently. So the first times that you do
23:16
it are the hardest when you're triggered, when you're tired,
23:18
when you're activated, when stress is happening.
23:21
All of that stuff is going to. You're more likely to when.
23:23
I'm hungry because I haven't had any crackers or anything.
23:26
Well, I definitely have Cracker Tuna.
23:30
They have shooted these cracker kits at the store.
23:33
You should just go with them. I know she just eats it from the
23:36
can Lindsay. All I know is like, what if man
23:39
embark on this rewiring? Like what if Lindsay is like our
23:43
little person on the shoulder and goes through our show and
23:46
like we pause and we like take back all of our snarky.
23:50
What kind of show would this be? Oh no, this is what I picture.
23:53
Shut up. Just kidding, I don't want to
23:58
grow right now. I want to react the way I want
24:00
to react. OK, Lindsey, I just don't
24:03
understand how you have not been doing this your whole life
24:05
because this is just coming off of you.
24:07
Like it's just so second hand that you're obviously so good at
24:11
what you do. Yet I know like just not that
24:15
long ago you were doing something like completely
24:17
different. You were working at Microsoft,
24:20
your events. I remember COVID happened, but I
24:23
also remember you talking about golden handcuffs, feeling like
24:25
you couldn't leave. Like, walk us through that story
24:28
because. This Lindsay feels very
24:31
different from that Lindsay. Well, I, this Lindsay's done a
24:34
lot of her own therapy. So I had to go through my, I
24:38
feel like I got a lot of my degree in my own, you know, my
24:40
own humbling life experiences. But I, yeah, I was in tech since
24:43
the mid 90s, late 90s Microsoft. I did a little bit of Apple came
24:46
back to Microsoft in the mid 2000.
24:50
Can we say mid 2? Mid 2000 zeros I guess would be
24:53
the way. To say that, yeah.
24:55
The 0 Zeros, not the teens. Yeah, the yeah, a long time ago,
24:59
20 years ago. And so I was there.
25:01
And then I left and started a consulting gig.
25:03
And what I found a lot of times I loved in early in my career.
25:05
It was great. I had the energy, the
25:07
motivation, the passion. I didn't have kids yet.
25:09
I loved being in tech. It was wonderful.
25:11
I I enjoyed, you know, the late nights, the working hard.
25:14
The event industry was a really cool space to be in.
25:17
And then when I started my business with another woman that
25:19
was a production company working in tech, I found I tend to like
25:24
to build things. I like the challenge of building
25:26
and learning and growing. And I found about 3 or 4 years
25:29
into that, so about a decade ago, I started feeling.
25:33
So you know, you work in tech. I know, I know both Blakely and
25:36
Header, you have that you, you can make good money on that,
25:38
right? So it's hard to think about
25:39
changing careers, you know, And I, I had wanted to look at being
25:42
a therapist since I was in College in the early 90s, mid
25:45
90s. And I just, I knew it was a
25:48
later in life thing. I would have I would have fucked
25:50
people up if I was a therapist in my 20s.
25:54
I needed a life. True though.
25:56
I don't mean that, I mean I needed to grow like.
26:00
Well, on the therapy note, like I you, so you're in business all
26:04
of these years, while you were in business at a company like
26:08
Microsoft, were you seeing opportunities as a leader where
26:13
you're like, you know, actually an understanding of how you know
26:17
the human brain works, how you know this interactions between
26:21
people, how healing interplays. Was that a piece of it that was
26:24
like kind of proving itself out in the corporate world that made
26:26
you go back to therapy? Or did you just want something
26:28
completely different? I, it was more I had my own kind
26:32
of my own struggles, my own demons, my own things I was
26:34
facing and doing, my own, my own therapy work and my own growth
26:38
because I struggled with my level of anxiety was so intense.
26:41
So a lot of my drive came from my anxiety and so I was kind of
26:44
anxiety laden. I was motivated by that anxiety.
26:47
It fueled me. I struggled with social anxiety
26:49
or different things where? All growing up or just around
26:53
work? Around, well, work and work and
26:56
social environments, that idea of like wanting to, you know, do
26:59
a good job or overachieve or some of this aspect.
27:02
Type A, a lot of people I find in the tech environment, you see
27:06
a lot of that like type A personalities that are really
27:08
driven and oftentimes not all the time.
27:11
It can be driven from whether it's an anxiety or a sense of
27:14
like proving yourself, and it comes from motivation that can
27:17
become unhealthy because you don't have balance in other
27:19
ways. I struggled just being kind of
27:21
calm or quiet. I found that I struggled because
27:24
my mind would race or I'd struggle with not almost being
27:27
so busy with work and the tech environment was perfect for
27:29
that. When I shifted to my other
27:32
company or my consulting business or event production
27:35
company, I found as we were growing that business, I was
27:39
continuing to do my own work. And I started really questioning
27:42
that the level. So when I talked earlier about
27:45
awareness, the level of anxiety that I had, I was like, this
27:48
can't, this isn't sustainable. I was getting colds all the
27:50
time. I was, I was tired all the, I
27:52
mean, I'm still, I'm still tired all the time.
27:54
Ever since I became a mom, I've been tired.
27:55
We're not going to blame that, but I was more tired.
27:57
I was anxious all the time. And so I just knew I started
28:01
really questioning if that's a way of living.
28:03
And the, you know, you had a great question about golden
28:05
handcuffs. What I started finding was I, I
28:09
felt stuck because I made an income level that was great.
28:12
I made a good income. And then when I thought about
28:15
being a therapist, it felt really defeating because I was
28:18
like, you don't, you know, it's really hard to make a livable
28:20
wage really as a therapist. If you're solo therapist, you're
28:24
working a lot more hours than that.
28:26
You can get burnt out. And so I just found myself
28:28
basing what the next option would be on money and finances,
28:31
which is a very real thing to have to base things on.
28:34
And then I would just get defeated.
28:35
And so over years, it started, I called it kind of sucking the
28:38
life out of me where I just felt unmotivated a lot of times with
28:42
work, I felt lost and what I wanted to do.
28:45
And I just kind of kept doing my own work around and I started
28:48
getting better tools for anxiety.
28:50
I started learning how to have that awareness, learning how to
28:52
have that discernment. And then I started going, this
28:55
isn't authentically me and how can I figure out how to do
28:58
something that is more aligned with me and where I want to go
29:02
in my life? And then the pandemic ended up
29:04
kind of forcing my hand. I'd started school privately.
29:07
I don't want to tell anybody I was doing it because I was like,
29:09
I don't even know if I want to finish this.
29:10
I'm just going to try it. And then the pandemic hit shut
29:13
down all events forever, everywhere, it seemed like.
29:16
And so I just threw myself into school and it was a really a
29:18
blessing and I, I love it. And so part of being a therapist
29:23
now as I get to be in the space all the time.
29:25
And so I've done a lot of my own growth just with, with that
29:28
aspect, but the I had to figure out out of in many ways out of
29:31
fear I lost my company. I'm a single mom.
29:33
I had to figure out how to make therapy work for me in a way
29:36
that I could afford living as a single parent in Seattle with
29:39
two kids that are about to go off to college.
29:41
And so I used my business skills and started a group practice
29:44
and, and made it work for me. But that there was definitely a
29:48
period of about 6 to 8 years where I felt dead inside.
29:52
A little dramatic, but I felt just stuck.
29:54
Like I get that. It was just a defeating feeling.
29:58
Well, I mean, how unfortunate for so many who don't have like
30:02
the business side of it. I just think about all of the
30:04
good therapists and the good teachers and just all the people
30:07
I want to see out there helping us and who cannot do it because
30:11
of all the reasons you just said, being a single mom or just
30:15
the expenses. And I don't know, I just want to
30:19
now that I'm not a fan of the tech disparity in that way.
30:23
Yeah, I also want to say you're a hustler too.
30:26
Like you didn't just do your therapy group pass just to make
30:32
like to make up for the tech salary.
30:33
You. I think I've probably had.
30:36
I've I had to guess, let's all guess how many businesses
30:39
Lindsay has started. I'm going to say 1413. 13
30:46
businesses. Yeah.
30:48
Yeah, that's a lot of businesses.
30:49
Yeah, I think I was going to say 6-6 is a lot.
30:53
Do you know how many, Lindsay? Let me.
30:56
If I'm actually confused. With ideas, because that's
30:58
probably more like a no. No, but things that I put I
31:00
mean. Are we talking about like
31:01
GoDaddy domains? Because I've got like 50 of
31:03
those. Do you?
31:04
No, these are things that are. How about something that I've
31:06
made some revenue off of, whether I.
31:08
There you go. Like prop.
31:10
Like, OK, so let me think customers probably about 8 or 9
31:15
if I can, yeah. But I want to talk about the one
31:19
where when I first met you, you had it was like somewhere after
31:23
COVID, you started an Etsy shop and it was T-shirts and the
31:29
T-shirts kind of, I had all different things that they ended
31:32
up to be like mental health T-shirts.
31:34
They were super funny but cool things.
31:37
But I just remember you have this one T-shirt that Meghan
31:42
Markle wore and you went viral. Oh really?
31:46
Yeah, that's amazing. Which one was it?
31:49
It was an RBG shirt so when she passed away I made a shirt just
31:53
like an old Gen. X style block lettering like
31:57
athletic shirt. Yeah.
31:59
So it's just a block letter. Shirt on Meghan Markle.
32:01
I probably did, I love RBG. Yeah.
32:04
And so it's just a great kind of like ice blue color and just a
32:07
simple tee. And yeah, her PR team I guess
32:11
bought it and she wore it and I had a lot of sales from it, so.
32:15
Yeah, that's incredible. That is incredible.
32:17
My T-shirt business was called Mother Shuckers.
32:22
I love that. That's good.
32:23
Way more inventive than mine. And it was about oysters and,
32:28
you know, just like mother shucking good and like, OK, I
32:32
never did anything with it. Those were the ideas.
32:34
They're it's all in here. It's all on the phone.
32:36
Don't, don't, don't take that one.
32:38
I want to know how being a therapist has impacted the way
32:44
you lead. So you've built this big
32:46
practice now. So how much of your time is
32:49
spent, I guess two-part question, how much of your time
32:52
is spent kind of leading and running the business versus
32:55
being in session? And then how has all of your
32:59
knowledge as a therapist impacted the way you lead your
33:02
huge team of people? That's a great.
33:05
Question, So I what I find the most, so I'm about 7525 or 8020,
33:10
I'm about 80% running the business, about 20% clients or
33:14
supervision. That's more than I thought.
33:16
I don't know why. Yeah.
33:17
And so I've got. That's a lot.
33:19
It is, yeah. And it's not with the, I'm at
33:21
about 30 clinicians now. And so it's it's getting to
33:24
where it's getting harder to manage.
33:26
But I really like working with clients.
33:28
I think it's important that I have that connection to be able
33:32
to run. It's kind of like knowing the
33:33
business to be able to run it and understand what therapists
33:36
are going through and all of those things because it's, I
33:40
think I'd lose touch with some of that if I if I didn't.
33:43
And So what I find the most that's shown up is I lead from
33:47
strength. So I don't try to put everybody
33:50
into. So I create processes and
33:51
systems that are very kind of boundary.
33:54
They're not over processized. It's like with with healthcare,
33:57
you have pretty like clinical notes, you have all these
34:00
systems. So I create systems with very
34:01
clear bumper rails so that my team knows exactly what to do
34:05
and is exactly what's expected of them.
34:07
And then what I like to do is allow flexibility within the
34:10
role. So it's kind of, you know, some
34:12
people prefer working in the morning, some prefer working in
34:15
the evening, some like to work weekends.
34:17
And so I try to embrace the person's individual needs so
34:20
they can have good work life balance because leaning into
34:23
those strengths of what they know they need instead of, you
34:26
know, a strict structure has been something that I like to do
34:29
with which allows just, you know, better care for my
34:32
employees. And then when they're feel taken
34:35
care of, they take better care of clients.
34:37
And then and the other thing is, is on kind of the administrative
34:39
side, I look at the different strengths there.
34:41
And I say, instead of saying this job role is, is this is
34:45
what they're supposed to do? If the person has an aspect of
34:47
that job that's not a strength of theirs, we just have candid
34:49
conversations and I'm like, great, we're going to give you
34:51
more things that you do well with and we're going to take
34:53
this chunk off and we're going to give this to somebody else
34:56
that has that strength. Do you acknowledge the
34:58
deficiencies? You just don't try to make them
35:02
better. You just say, OK, we're going to
35:03
take if you're deficient in this area, we're going to take this
35:05
off your plate and have you focus on the strengths.
35:08
Focus on the strengths and then they get to really do the things
35:11
well that they do. And I don't, I don't try to
35:13
pigeonhole into a job description because a lot of
35:16
times you'll find different skill sets you need and some
35:18
people can do those, but there's usually areas you look and you
35:21
go, this person's a great hire, they're doing a great job in
35:24
these ways. How do I give them more things
35:26
they do great at instead of trying to have them spend energy
35:29
or feel crappy about themselves because they're not good at
35:32
reports? So I don't know, but you know
35:34
it. And so it's kind of looking at
35:36
how do you really embrace strengths and how do you really
35:38
allow people to focus on that? And as long as there's enough of
35:41
that in there, you can really allow them to blossom in that
35:45
type of role. So are these, are these an
35:47
analysis, Sorry, is there, is there an analysis that you're
35:51
taking them through to figure out and analyse what their
35:53
strengths and weaknesses are or are these just kind of
35:55
self-proclaimed strengths? These are just I what I'll see
35:58
is I'll go, OK, I'm noticing that you're, you know, this is
36:01
on your job list. I'm noticing this isn't getting
36:03
done, but you're doing these other things really well.
36:06
Is this a hard area for you? How do you do like doing this
36:09
stuff? Is this, do you want to take
36:10
more of this? Do you want to do these other
36:12
things? Do we need to get somebody to
36:14
support this part of it? There's other people.
36:16
So when I hire, I hire different strengths.
36:18
So everybody's got kind of complimentary strengths
36:21
initially, so you can kind of move some of the tasks around.
36:24
And so it's kind of looking at it more from a conversation.
36:27
It's not saying, let's say where you're not doing well.
36:30
It's more saying, hey, I'm noticing this is an area that
36:32
you're struggling to get done. Is this something that you want
36:35
to, you know, you want to keep doing?
36:36
It needs to get done. But if we need to give you other
36:39
things to make up for it that you enjoy doing, let's take this
36:42
off and do something. Else I bet your attrition is
36:44
pretty low with this it. Is.
36:46
Yeah, it is. Yeah, because because it feels
36:49
to me like you're communicating to them that you're not giving
36:52
up on them, that you're not saying, hey, you are failing to
36:55
meet these expectations, we're going to put you on a PIP and
36:58
off you go. If you don't meet it, you're
36:59
saying how do we adjust? Did you throw in Pip just to
37:04
make Clay define it one more time in the new year?
37:07
Feel like we do it every time. OK.
37:09
Is he going to get it right? Performance improvement plan
37:14
and. Chop, you approved.
37:16
And you keep saying in other episodes and maybe in this 1A
37:20
push up plan, and I think we should officially give that an
37:25
acronym. It's come up so many times and
37:27
we should call it a pup. A pup, A pup instead of a pip.
37:32
And if you're in Blakely's house, you could be on both at
37:34
the same time because she makes her kids do push ups when they
37:37
fail. Right.
37:38
True. Didn't.
37:40
You do that. So I make my son do push ups
37:44
when he swears because it's not like your book where you know
37:46
it's a title and it's kind of like click bait fun.
37:50
He swears every other word and it's really ear exhausting.
37:53
And then I make my daughter do push ups when she says I'm sorry
37:57
because she has long female conditioning that needs to be
38:01
broken. So they're very strong, very
38:04
strong. They swear a lot and say sorry a
38:06
lot. Sorry, I'm in, I'm in.
38:09
Works the pup on the pit. That's a good plan.
38:12
I've done that with my kids. I've whenever we do like outdoor
38:15
activities and they get frustrated I make them speak in
38:18
a British accent. You.
38:21
Do. Not you can't do that.
38:23
I'm like, you can't do that. You have to speak in a British
38:25
accent if you're going to complain.
38:28
What can I use that in my marriage?
38:31
Yeah. They're like they're whining
38:33
about something or it's like, you know, be like, well, you
38:35
need to, you know, we haven't done it as much.
38:37
Like you make so busy you have to complain in a British accent.
38:41
You can't complain without like, laughing if you're trying to
38:44
speak British. But like you are not allowed to
38:46
ask me how many guests we have scheduled for Q1 without like
38:51
you have to say it in a British accent.
38:53
You can't be like, did you get? Because you're about to go on a
38:56
PIP because we're not like. I can't.
38:58
I can't hear you because you're not speaking in a British
39:01
accent. Oh, Heather.
39:06
See, you can't do without laughing.
39:07
So when they're complaining, this is this is when they were
39:10
littler. They're now they're they're on
39:11
to me. But it was pretty funny.
39:13
Get on a Harry Potter voice. OK, there we go.
39:17
We got a little something. Going just because lined up.
39:19
Wait, no, no, I'm like getting Southern.
39:20
Well, actors went wrong. Actors do this thing where they
39:23
they have like a phrase that gets them into the accent,
39:27
right? Yeah, OK.
39:28
Right. Like for Australian, mine was
39:31
Simon and Liz Pounda. They were our friends and they
39:34
talked like that. Like where?
39:37
Where are we at that marketing? I need to like re marketing
39:40
myself here. The media kit likely where we
39:44
where we at on the marketing is that.
39:46
Where we at on the marketing? Where we at on the?
39:49
Marketing. You have a good job.
39:51
I'm impressed. I.
39:54
Oh my. Gosh, it's.
39:55
Not my thing, really bad. I think you did great when
39:59
British, you know, you really killed.
40:02
The southern, that was really good, Texas.
40:04
When you was. Impressive the Texas 1.
40:07
So you can ask me in your Texas accent to update my project
40:12
plan. You betcha, I don't even know
40:15
how to do it anymore. I thought you just called me a
40:17
bitch and then things are going to get elevated, but we think.
40:19
We could break and see. Let's have awareness.
40:21
How are you doing, Heather? Are you feeling elevated?
40:23
What's happening coming up in your body?
40:29
What did you say? What did you want to say?
40:35
OK, so I love like one of my favorite shows, like Guilty
40:38
Pleasures Silicon Valley, you know, and he's like, oh, I knew
40:42
you would hate Silicon Valley. Why it's so?
40:44
I liked that show. That was.
40:46
Been a while, thank. You, Lindsay.
40:47
Were you watching it though when you were in tech?
40:50
I for me, it was the very first episode and like, and we're
40:54
going to change the. World.
40:56
I hear one more that was I. Was like to laugh at it.
41:00
Though change the world. I was so in it that we were like
41:04
saying, OK, you're this guy, you're this guy.
41:07
Like we were like looking at our.
41:09
Company turn it off within the 1st 30 seconds because I was so
41:13
in it I thought I was going to hurt myself that.
41:15
Were you getting activated watching this?
41:18
Activated talking about it. OK, well I I got when Benny Hoff
41:24
brought the monks, who are Clay's friends, by the way,
41:27
shout out to From the outside in From the inside.
41:30
What's the? Podcast you're so close the way
41:32
out through. The way out is in.
41:35
The way out is in So Clay cheats on us every once in a while and
41:39
works on this other podcast that is like one of the top Buddhist
41:43
podcasts on Apple Podcast, correct?
41:44
Correct. And Spotify.
41:46
Yes, okay, good for you. Anyway, Benihoff has those
41:51
months come to Dreamforce every year.
41:55
Yes, he did. So, but that just reminded me of
41:58
the guy in Silicon Valley who has the always in his office.
42:02
So they make fun of it. But I will as AC suite, as an
42:05
executive leader, I want to ask Lindsay, is that valid?
42:09
Like the therapy at that level, is that a necessity?
42:12
Would you say they need to be spending time, even if it's on
42:15
the clock with a therapist to do their job well?
42:18
I mean, I'm a therapist, yes. And I, I've seen I well, but I
42:22
look at like my, my life is completely different in the way
42:24
that I manage my emotions, how I lead, how I interact with people
42:28
because of the therapy I've done.
42:30
And it, it, it's something that with leaders, it can start to
42:34
help the, the self-awareness is so important.
42:36
And to process that, to process the weight that they carry, the
42:39
stress that they carry, their interpersonal reactions, all of
42:42
that stuff is so important. And therapies, I mean, I think
42:45
it, yeah, it absolutely should be part of their repertoire.
42:50
I agree. And actually I would.
42:51
Well, at our company we would have like a health and Wellness
42:54
reimbursement where we'd encourage it to be used on
42:56
therapy or at least like a gym membership or something.
42:59
But it couldn't be it. It had to be something better
43:01
for your. Mind you know what I thought was
43:05
really interesting, something I just saw recently, there's a
43:07
private equity firm in town and they provide a couple's
43:13
counseling benefit to all of their business owners of all
43:17
their portfolio companies. And I'm like, that's interesting
43:20
because I can understand therapy to become a leader, but no, they
43:24
recognize just the intense nature of entrepreneurs and
43:28
founders and what it can do on their relationships.
43:31
And so they pay for for marriage counseling.
43:33
I'm like, that's awesome. It's genius.
43:36
Brilliant. It's brilliant benefit.
43:38
It is. Yeah, it's.
43:39
The system. Supporting them, I mean, it's,
43:41
it's they come home and that, that if that is supportive, if
43:45
they're able to show up, if they're able to understand, I
43:47
mean, that's huge. Yeah, it's.
43:48
Really, we would always include significant others as much as we
43:51
possibly could to honor them, bring them in, get to know them
43:55
for that exact reason, Lindsay, it's so important to look at
43:58
that as a package. So I know we're running short on
44:01
time, but I but you have created yet another business and it
44:05
sounds like the coolest of them all.
44:07
And so tell us about like what you're doing and why, like why
44:11
are you doing it? So about a decade ago I did
44:13
genetic testing and was fascinated with the idea of how
44:16
genetics impact your medications because.
44:19
You see people go through, especially with psychiatric meds
44:22
where they're, they're struggling and they're trying
44:24
multiple meds and they have to go through the side effects.
44:26
And then if you're, if you're, you know, a teenager or a young
44:29
adult and you don't necessarily know, you don't know yourself
44:31
enough to know if it's the meds or not, right?
44:33
You kind of don't. So then it's parents looking at
44:36
it to looking for sight. So it's just, it's really
44:38
complex. And so this idea of saying, I
44:40
want to look at my genes and the medications, Well, there's,
44:43
there's sites out there that'll do DNA testing and give you
44:46
results. So I did some of those out of
44:48
curiosity and a lot of them have like like color coding or
44:51
they'll tell you what to take, what not to take.
44:54
But I, I wanted to know why I wanted to go, well, how could,
44:56
how did we get here? Why does this one respond that
44:59
way? So essentially with vibe coding
45:02
in the where where AI is at today, I was able to take this
45:05
like 10 year idea and build it and essentially take all the
45:09
available research and validate research and audit the research
45:14
and make sure it was industry standard with how it's presented
45:18
and allow you to take your existing DNA test.
45:20
So you don't have to go to one of these companies and get a new
45:23
test. You can actually use the data
45:25
that you already have. And then I only scrape the data
45:28
that is relevant to the testing that we're doing.
45:30
So you can't identify you. And you mean DNA sites like
45:33
Ancestry 23andMe, like a lot of people have already, you know,
45:37
they probably got this for Christmas, right?
45:39
Exactly. So you just get the data you
45:41
already have because of these other companies want you to pay
45:43
multiple hundreds of dollars or insurance or go through your
45:47
doctor to get a test to then get a result.
45:49
That's that's kind of black box algorithm.
45:51
So I wanted to create something that I wanted basically was
45:54
like, I want something that's transparent, that helps me
45:57
understand the research that shows me what side effects might
45:59
be impacted by my genes. What, what new research is
46:04
coming that might not be clinically relevant, but I can
46:06
kind of see where it's going to see if I can relate to it and
46:09
talk with my doctor about it. So I was able to create it and I
46:12
totally nerd it out on it and I'm having fun with it.
46:14
So I just launched it like 3 days ago.
46:17
And so essentially you get a report.
46:19
You can, I just launched it. Yeah.
46:20
So you get a report that you can take to your doctor and speak in
46:23
an intelligent way about what the research says, what you're
46:27
curious about, and also how your genes are showing up to interact
46:30
with other drugs. So it's not kind of this trial
46:33
and error. The hope is that people will
46:35
have more informed conversations.
46:36
So it was very long winded. So you can cut out as much as
46:39
you want, but that's my. That's what it is.
46:41
I'm about to sign. I'm about to sign right up.
46:43
I'm about to go on here. I'm about to sign up.
46:45
I'm going to take a long report to my doctor and be like, OK,
46:48
now let's have a conversation, girl.
46:50
Yeah, well, you'll. Find can it get though like can
46:54
if I am considering going on an antidepressant and you know, you
46:58
have SSRIs and there's like a gazillion of them.
47:01
Is that the level of detail? It's like you Blakely, your
47:05
genes are saying no to Prozac. But yes, elect the pro the CEO
47:09
drug of choice, right? Like, is that what it's saying?
47:12
Yes and no. So I can't, because I'm not a
47:15
doctor, I can't go and make prescriptive, right.
47:18
So this isn't at the FDA level. So it's essentially a research
47:21
and literature platform that tells you how much research
47:25
there is with your DNA. And it's essentially by the
47:27
research level you're going to be able to deduce that.
47:30
OK, there's a lot of research showing that my genes have a lot
47:33
of interaction with this medication.
47:34
I need to talk to my doctor about it.
47:36
So we'll summarize for you. And it's going to tell you what
47:40
you know, you you know, the research shows that you should
47:42
have higher dose or lower dose or the research shows you're
47:45
most likely to have some of these types of side effects.
47:47
You should really talk with your doctor about this.
47:49
And it goes by medication. So it's going to tell you by
47:52
medication what your genes are showing.
47:54
And yes, there's a ton of research to support it.
47:56
And the research continues to be emerging and we get new data
48:00
every quarter. There's a very real scenario
48:03
that I had with my son who's got asthma, really significant
48:08
asthma, and there was a bunch of black box warnings on different
48:11
drugs for depression and suicide and, and, and it was asthma
48:17
medication. And I remember getting it going
48:19
like, I don't know, like do I want him to be able to breathe
48:22
or do I want him to have suicidal ideation?
48:25
Was like, this is very scary thing.
48:26
That's a really hard trade off, by the way.
48:28
Yeah, it's AI mean that's very hard.
48:31
It's like seriously, because you're like, I want to give my
48:33
kid this medication, but is it going to cause this thing?
48:35
And then feeling like you're helpless, That's a really hard
48:38
spot to be in. But having some assurance and
48:41
knowing genetically, are we more predisposed to that or not
48:45
predisposed to that like interaction would be?
48:48
Really, really really. Helpful to make that trade off
48:51
commerce, you know, decision. It would and a lot of times
48:54
these reports you'll get are very clinical.
48:56
And so it's kind of like my book in therapy.
48:58
I'm I really want to take, I'm passionate obviously about
49:01
mental health, about the whole this kind of system around it.
49:03
And I want to make things simpler for people, easier to
49:06
understand. So the reporting is done in
49:08
consumer friendly terms. I'm not using the
49:10
pharmacogenomics is used like once, right?
49:12
And the rest of it's in layman terms, like how do you process
49:15
drugs, your genes and drug metabolism?
49:17
I do an education area where I have literally I have an area
49:20
for terminology because I'm like, how do you define half the
49:24
stuff? So I allow you to be able to go.
49:25
I don't know what that means. What does that word mean?
49:27
How does this happen here? But I might right now I'm doing
49:30
mental health psych. But if if I'm able to prove the
49:33
model or the business, I actually am planning on doing
49:35
much other more, many more you can fix that I'm planning on
49:40
doing sometimes. He doesn't fix.
49:42
Things he doesn't just lets it go, but I'm hoping to do other
49:46
types of medication classes. So the next two would be pain
49:48
meds and cardiovascular. I'd actually like to do hormones
49:52
because hormone therapy for women in menopause where I had a
49:55
bad reaction to hormone therapy and some women would thrive on
49:58
it. What there's different
49:59
potentially is a gene component. And it's not about saying you
50:01
will definitely have this. It's about giving you enough
50:04
information that says you're more likely to have these types
50:07
of responses because of your genes.
50:09
But you might see something where you go, I've already had
50:11
that response. This is already what's happening
50:13
to me. Can I try something that maybe,
50:15
you know, working with your doctor?
50:17
Can I try something that maybe has less implication and and
50:20
seems more aligned with what my genetic makeup is?
50:23
I love this Lindsay, because it puts me more in the driver's
50:28
seat of my own personal health, unique to me.
50:31
Every time I have to go to the doctor and do like the medical
50:34
health history and all that, it just starts to get me worried.
50:36
It's like my mom has scoliosis. Does that mean I will or all of
50:39
these things? And it's all kind of a bit of a
50:41
guessing game until the symptoms start.
50:43
And then what if the symptoms are too late?
50:44
So I love being in the driver's seat more knowing even just a
50:47
likelihood. Is this in the arena for me and
50:50
to what extent? And it sounds like you're giving
50:53
people some knowledge and research unique to them,
50:56
specifically in their DNA, which doesn't exist.
50:58
So really excited to see what comes of it.
51:01
Congratulations. Yeah, I'm excited.
51:02
And it's something, it started like 10 years and I was so
51:04
excited to bring it to life because it was something I
51:06
wanted for myself and for people that I knew in my life that were
51:09
struggling with figuring the right antidepressants and stuff.
51:13
So yeah, so it's it's it's exciting and I'm excited to have
51:16
it out. Yeah, I want to try it.
51:18
Yeah, do it. I'll I'll send you a code.
51:21
Thank you. Yes.
51:22
All right, code in. Oh, you mean just for Heather?
51:25
I was like. I already gave you one lately.
51:27
Show notes. Oh, you mean no, I'll give you
51:31
guys. I'll give you guys a code for
51:32
your viewers too, yes. All right.
51:36
We have to drop that. Awesome.
51:37
Thank you, little freebie. Now that's good.
51:40
I need it. I do.
51:41
Wonder. And now I'm sitting here trying
51:43
to like, sit up straight. I want to read about the back.
51:48
The back there's a, there's a bra for that, you know?
51:50
What do you mean a posture bra? Yeah.
51:53
Tell me more. I clearly don't have it on
51:55
because I it's the one, it's the Taylor Swift or it's like a
52:00
sports bra that has, I forgot. I don't remember the name of it.
52:03
Maybe somebody watching does. But I, it's a it's expensive,
52:07
but it stretches in the back and it pulls your shoulders.
52:10
It kind of pulls your posture up and it I, yeah, I've gotten sore
52:14
from it when I wear, I can't wear it like when I wore it more
52:18
than a few hours. I'm actually sore the next day
52:20
like my can. You get it on.
52:22
That's my problem. I'm like I have like bad.
52:26
I've gotten stuck in so many sports bras I've I've cranked my
52:29
neck stuck in the closet like this.
52:32
Yeah, it is actually kind of difficult because it's it's a
52:34
little bit stretchy. And the other thing, I'm going
52:36
to say something and I, I'm probably going to regret saying
52:39
this, but it's also a little bit difficult for midlife boobs
52:43
because it doesn't have a lot of support.
52:45
Underneath I was going to ask about just the tour Smith boobs
52:48
the whole the girl. Yeah, it's not made for.
52:51
It's made for perkier boobs then.
52:53
Well, I wasn't joking about the buzzer.
52:55
I was thinking there was the one that goes in the bra, but I got
52:59
a buzzer like. My husband got a buzzer 1.
53:02
What's the buzzer? OK, well, this sounds like
53:03
another business idea. We need the middle.
53:05
Buzzer. Yes.
53:07
It's already there, the middle-aged posture bra.
53:10
Oh, middle-aged bra, Yes. Because it needs.
53:12
It needs more support. It needs.
53:14
Both, mm, hmm. And maybe a zipper to get right
53:16
out of if you're listening. Yes, ours.
53:19
I'm not on this for this idea. Yeah.
53:21
Doesn't buzz you every second you do this, Yeah.
53:24
Yeah, that's right on your chair.
53:26
Wait. So the buzzer one makes a noise.
53:30
Yeah, it. Vibrates you.
53:32
I mean, it does work. I said it doesn't work.
53:33
It does work. You train it.
53:36
You train it with an app of like how while you're standing
53:39
straight, and then whenever you're not standing straight,
53:42
that buzzer that you attach to your back.
53:45
Buzzes you tells by the. Curve tells by you curve but
53:49
like I get buzzed like like 99% of my.
53:53
Day I would take it off immediately.
53:55
I would cut it off if I could. I it's like my car beeping at me
53:58
to not text and drive distracted driving detected Bang Bang.
54:02
I hope you don't text and drive, Heather.
54:05
Gosh. I don't it's a self driving car
54:07
like. Clay, cut that out.
54:09
We don't want that out in the world.
54:11
No, it's a self driving driver. It's like it's a it drives me.
54:16
No, I know that's no, it does too crazy for you.
54:18
No. Yes it does.
54:20
So let's let's end the show. Oh man, Lindsay, we.
54:25
Covered a lot. Of ground today.
54:28
Thank you so much. I love the concepts of leading
54:31
for our strengths and helping our employees to lead from their
54:34
strengths and taking an active part in that.
54:36
And I love pausing to figure out, you know, how you're going
54:40
to act differently and choosing different behavior.
54:43
That change doesn't happen with the same behavior.
54:44
You have to choose the behavior and think about that and
54:49
everything that you're doing with this book.
54:50
I'm going to go out and buy that book.
54:52
I, I tell you that I am fascinated.
54:54
I I really am very excited to read your shitty book.
54:59
Have you played the words we could make you?
55:01
Read this, there's so many fun play on words.
55:03
Yeah. There's so many.
55:04
Can I tell you something funny? So Amazon wouldn't let me
55:06
advertise it, not because of the word shitty but because it has a
55:10
poop emoji and they said it was vulgar so I couldn't advertise
55:13
on what? My poop emoji?
55:15
Are you serious? A poop emoji.
55:17
It's the most common, like emoji used behind the heart.
55:20
So I could. Like Amazon sells like poop
55:23
emoji pillows and stuff. And toilet paper, because I
55:26
bought some. They didn't say it was the word
55:28
because the word has a little star asterisk.
55:30
They said it was the eight on the cover.
55:32
I'm like, oh, OK, well, apparently.
55:33
Oh. My goodness.
55:34
So who needs Amazon anyway? We've got not all business
55:38
promoting this book. It's going to go viral.
55:42
All right. Well, thank you so much for
55:43
being here, Lindsay. We really appreciate it.
55:45
Before we let you go, we want you to ask answer a question
55:48
that we ask all of our guests. And we do answer it ourselves,
55:51
which is what brought a smile to your face this week.
55:54
Actually, you know what it was, it was, this is going to be
55:56
random, but it was actually eating the candy from the
55:59
gingerbread house instead of making the gingerbread house.
56:02
And I felt so much more relieved than trying to make the
56:04
gingerbread house. Amazing.
56:07
Oh my gosh, how? How far into the gingerbread
56:09
house did you get before you're like, screw this, we're eating
56:12
it instead? So I got the pre made one
56:14
because that's fun because I didn't want to bake it.
56:16
So I opened the bags and I'm like, oh, these are these are
56:18
actually counties I could eat. So I'm sitting there with my
56:20
kids and I do one line of frosting and I'm like, I'm just
56:22
going to eat the. Candy, I'm good.
56:24
That's enough. God bless.
56:26
You see, that is a healed person right there.
56:30
That is a healed person. She's not.
56:32
There's no performance, there's no anxiety.
56:34
There's presents. But the kids thought it was fun.
56:37
They did. Blakely, did you have a contest
56:39
in your house? Who had the best house?
56:41
Well, you know what they did is they built the gingerbread.
56:43
I'm just going to say this. They, they built the gingerbread
56:46
house and then it was a test. Whoever can last the longest
56:50
without eating it wins. I don't know like 1 push up
56:55
less. You guys have a wrong perception
56:58
of me and my family. I'll tell you.
57:01
Here's a corrective. Perception he did live with you
57:03
for 3-3 days last year. He.
57:06
Did. I did a lot of push ups while I
57:09
was there. No, I am.
57:12
We are not a well oiled machine over here.
57:14
This morning over breakfast, I am telling my kid like, good
57:20
luck at school today. And he goes, oh, he's like, no,
57:22
I'm going to be on the radio today.
57:23
I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, we're we're
57:27
going on a field trip and we're going to go down to Denver and
57:29
we're going to play on the radio his jazz band.
57:31
And this is like, this is what I mean by not a well oiled
57:35
machine. I never know what is going on
57:38
with these kids. Never like.
57:40
Survive. That's a no.
57:42
That's not you. That's 5.
57:43
Minutes before school he's like, I'm going to a radio station.
57:45
Anyway, that's normal. Yeah, thank you.
57:48
My smile of the week though was they live streamed it.
57:53
And it was so good. It was awesome.
57:56
It. Blew me away.
57:58
I had no idea high schoolers had talent like this.
58:02
I've never heard him practice once.
58:03
And he had, like, crazy solo. So that was show notes.
58:08
Yeah. I want to watch that.
58:09
Amazing. Yeah.
58:10
I am going to send it to you, Clay, as a fellow musician, I
58:13
think you would really appreciate it.
58:15
It was good. I'm looking.
58:16
Forward to it. Speaking of music, I got a text.
58:19
My smile a week is I got a text from my son's dance teacher that
58:24
said hello. Emeris is the Dynamic Dancer of
58:29
the Week at the school. This kid.
58:32
Gets a lot of AI. Know I'd be like whoa.
58:34
So his photo is hung up. A big one is hung up in the
58:38
hallway and it says dynamic dancer of the week.
58:41
So. That's awesome.
58:42
We've. Been just asking him like show
58:44
us your moves you know do some dances.
58:47
You got a dance class? Yeah.
58:49
At school it's just he, it's like a dance, like one of his
58:52
specials. So there's like music, dance,
58:56
art, things like that. So dance is one of them.
58:58
Is it like, is he get like funky with it, There's a lot, or is he
59:02
more of like a ballet? So there's a lot of like karate
59:05
moves and like attack moves that are like groovy.
59:09
So it's like it's a lot of like chopping, but then kind of like
59:12
backing into it. So like doing like stuff like
59:14
this and like spins, Yeah, that's.
59:18
What we used to call that. Yeah, yeah.
59:20
So it's a lot of great stuff and just dynamic smiles all the
59:23
time. But yeah, he's the dynamic
59:24
dancer. Yeah, love that.
59:28
He's such a cute kid. All right, my smile of the week
59:32
is that Nick and I are going to visit some of our very best
59:36
friends in Austin, TX, and we take you.
59:42
I OK, I'll bring you, I'll bring you in Texas, as long as you
59:46
talk in that cute little accent. Wait a second, we land.
59:49
Yeah, it's going to be nice. Now, these are great friends of
59:51
ours that we used to work with. And you ever have those work
59:54
friends where it was like Thursday happy hour, like every
59:56
week like you go, you destress? Starts at noon.
59:59
Talk shit. And yeah, it's it was so fun.
1:00:01
And so they moved a couple years ago away.
1:00:04
So we are going to visit them. Very excited about it.
1:00:08
And the life of an empty nester. That's awesome.
1:00:11
It's great. I'm not gonna.
1:00:14
Lie, I have mine coming up. I have twins graduating and I'm
1:00:18
a little bit. If you have any words of wisdom
1:00:19
for empty nest, transition a little.
1:00:23
It's okay to go and lay in their bed and cry.
1:00:26
Thank you. Good.
1:00:26
For real? No, like it's fun and it's
1:00:29
healing. I would do that.
1:00:31
My girlfriend that just dropped her kid off of college said make
1:00:34
sure you drop them off and then you go fly somewhere and like
1:00:40
have a fun weekend. I agree with that except if they
1:00:43
are out of state, I would recommend that you go there and
1:00:48
then you stay. You say goodbye to them and then
1:00:52
you still stay in the city for another 24 hours.
1:00:56
You don't even have to tell them that you're staying in the city,
1:00:58
but you just don't know how it's going to go.
1:01:01
And if you're already on a plane out of there and something
1:01:03
happened. For that, I got advice from,
1:01:06
well, from Jodi. She was the, you know, executive
1:01:08
at CSU. She that was one of her tips.
1:01:10
And for my kid who went to Utah, it actually it was a good thing.
1:01:15
That I was a. Little bit longer, Yeah.
1:01:18
All right. Well, I think this wraps it up
1:01:22
for this Happy New Year, first of 2026 episode.
1:01:26
So I hope everybody is going crazy on those resolutions.
1:01:30
Blakely, we didn't get to yours. I know you have a long list.
1:01:33
We'll check in at the end of January still, if you're doing
1:01:36
any of it. Thank you again to Lindsay.
1:01:39
Sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt. I feel like Blakely is like I
1:01:41
will never make a resolution. You shouldn't make a resolution.
1:01:45
Break yourself from resolutions. You know what that is, Blakely?
1:01:48
Amen. I thought it's a resolution.
1:01:54
All right, so there you go. Deal with that motherfucker.
1:01:58
OK. Thank you Lindsay so much for
1:02:00
being here. We've got all of your
1:02:02
information about your new business and your book.
1:02:04
And don't forget about that code that Lindsay is generously
1:02:07
handing out that will I'm so. Excited for that?
1:02:10
And yeah, please don't forget to subscribe to the show.
1:02:14
We love having you and we'll see you next time.
1:02:17
Oh, and don't forget Miss Wiggle Ears.
1:02:19
Send us a video. Oh yeah.
1:02:22
Charlie wiggles her ears. Charlie wiggles her ears.
1:02:24
I love that name, love her, I love her.
1:02:27
It's good.