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What It Really Takes To Build A Resilient Business · Sales Against the Odds

• [00:00:00] Nick Friedman: Success in business or sales or whatever the case may be, it's a combination of, information, motivation and then removing the interference. [00:00:22] Lee Brumbaugh: Thank you everyone for joining us. I am Lee Brumbaugh, CEO of Sales Xceleration. This is another episode of Sales Against The Odds. Very excited to have, uh, someone I've worked with in the past. Nick Friedman, co-founder of College H.U.N.K.S., which he's got if you're watching, he's got his shirt on today. Always Be Branding, co-founder of Trash Butler. [00:00:45] Lee Brumbaugh: And for those of you that are Shark Tank fans, you can go back and, I did do this, Nick. You can go back and watch the very first episode of Shark Tank and see Nick and Omar giving the, the vision and the starting areas of College H.U.N.K.S.. Thank you so much for joining us today, Nick. [00:00:58] Nick Friedman: Oh, thanks for having me, Lee. [00:01:00] Lee Brumbaugh: Nick, a lot of what we wanna talk about today and and really dig in is around the growth, especially with where College H.U.N.K.S. started, where it is today, nationally recognized. [00:01:10] Lee Brumbaugh: So let's start there. I know the story myself, but talk a little bit about with, on the College H.U.N.K.S. side, what was the biggest challenge you were, you were up against at the onset, and, and how did you overcome it? Through some of that determination that I know is innately in you. [00:01:25] Nick Friedman: Yeah, brute force, uh, definitely comes to mind as I think about the 20 year overnight success, uh, journey that we've been on. But it started with a beat up cargo van. Uh, I was in college, my buddy and I from high school. Uh, we're home for summer vacation looking for what we were gonna do that summer. And his mom had a beat up cargo van. She let us borrow it. Uh, she looked us up and down and said, you guys could be College H.U.N.K.S. who haul junk. Most college kids would stop when they graduate from college. And we did briefly. [00:01:51] Nick Friedman: We got regular jobs and then decided it was pretty unfulfilling in the, in the real world and said, you know what? Why don't we circle back to that business we did in the summer and, and try to make it a year round venture. And I do always tell the story. We went and we bought a one 800 number to try to make ourselves look like a big company, even though we just had the one truck and it was still routed to our cell phone. [00:02:09] Nick Friedman: And so, you know, I'd be in the driver's seat and people would call the 800 number to complain about driving and I'd answer the phone saying, oh yeah, we'll, you know, fire those guys when they get back to the office, you know, thanks for. Sure for reporting the erratic driving to us. But, uh, we learned about franchising as our growth engine. [00:02:24] Nick Friedman: And uh, we decided to take that path, which carried with it a lot of a steep learning curve. And we had to navigate the, uh, economic downturn of 2008, 2009 COVID of 2020. You know, now there's kind of some headwinds in the housing market that affects our industry. And, you know, you mentioned Trash Butler. [00:02:41] Nick Friedman: We launched another business along the way. There was never this one sort of momentous shift that happened. It was literally like one step in front of the other, grinding it out, getting great people in the organization to help us, you know, execute on, on the vision and the values that we kind of set in place. [00:02:58] Nick Friedman: And, uh, you know, here we are now 200 franchises across the country. Uh, roughly 300 million of annual sales. our second business Trash Butler that you helped us and have continued to help us grow, uh, is gonna do about 40 million in revenue this year. So it's been a 20 year overnight Success is, is the way I like to describe it. [00:03:16] Lee Brumbaugh: Great story. I, I love the fact that the mom involved in really setting your value proposition there. I mean, it's just great. I mean, it's sheer determination and will of, amazing story of how you grew. So. [00:03:25] Nick Friedman: We’ll leave it to a mom to, uh, kind of give you the confidence to call yourself a college hunk and, and use that as your company name. Of course, the, uh, initial asset that we needed, the, the beat up cargo van to go out and actually fulfill the work, uh, that we said we were gonna be able to, uh, to do for people. [00:03:43] Lee Brumbaugh: It tells a lot. And, you know, the next year I want to focus on is, and we've already hit this a little bit, is Resiliency, right? So. At the onset, you're doing a lot of the sales and you're, you know, it's through resiliency, it's through grit, which is, I know a word you, you like to use, but talk to me about at the onset, how did that sales, that determination, how did that link together from just getting out and selling your brand and your vision for the company? [00:04:04] Lee Brumbaugh: I. [00:04:05] Nick Friedman: I learned very early on that we had to be. Self-promoters. There was sort of like a, maybe a stigma around this notion of sales or, you know, you're, trying to do something to somebody. But I heard a, a, a talk very early on in our business and they said if you have a business, a product, or a service, if you think of in the context of sales, you may feel like you're trying to do something to somebody. [00:04:27] Nick Friedman: You're selling to somebody. But if you have something that helps someone, uh, you're actually helping somebody and, and any product or service. of value is there to provide a solution to somebody's issue or somebody's problem. And so when I started looking at it through that lens, I, I realized, okay, people need to move and people have junk that they wanna get rid of so far be it for me not to be the one to tell them how we can help them get rid of that stressor of, of moving in junk removal. Uh, so I kind of took it upon myself to be that, Pounding the pavement, knocking on real estate agents' doors, putting out flyers to say, Hey, hey, we're here and we can help you. I think our name brand and our story of how we started in college kind of helped lend itself to a conversation. Uh, people were like, well, the College H.U.N.K.S., you know, what's that about? Or, you know. This bright orange and green truck, or, oh, you started in college. Tell me more about that. So it allowed us to have a conversation with people where we could then transition it into our kind of elevator pitch of what we could offer them. and then also I think the media gave us some attention early on because of that story as well. But, uh, to your point, the early lesson I learned is, especially in the early days of your business, if you're not gonna promote your business, who will? And if you're not gonna promote your solution, who will? And yes, eventually you'll get, whether it's investors or team members or clients, to appreciate what you're doing in creating and, and the value you're building. And they'll help evangelize it for you as well through reviews, referrals. Kind of reputation or even repeat business. And that's how that sort of flywheel slowly, slowly grows. [00:05:59] Nick Friedman: And, you know, eventually we got to be able to hire people and try to teach them sort of that, brand champion, uh, mindset. And we actually made always branding become one of our core values because the thought is, you know, you've always gotta be out representing as a walking, talking billboard or walking, talking solution, to somebody's issue that you might be able to solve. [00:06:20] Lee Brumbaugh: You hit it really well As you as the founder, if you can't sell the solution, you know, you can try and add on salespeople all if you want, but if you don't have a message that solves for your customer's problems and you as the founder, can't have traction there. [00:06:34] Lee Brumbaugh: You're not gonna make it right. So I love the fact that you did it, you walked it, and you were doing what you preached. [00:06:39] Nick Friedman: Yeah. And, and I think, you know, sales comes very naturally to some people. I don't think I was a, naturally tactful salesperson. That's why I kind of used the word brute force. Like I was kind of more of like a, sheer will grit, determination. Let's, let's try to get as many reps as we can. And even if I'm not a great closer, if I get enough. Reps at it, I'll get better at closing and I'll have more opportunities to get the business. So that's kind of the way I approached it. Of course, I did start reading books, uh, on sales tactics and, you know, psychology of influence, and, and how to, you know, show, uh, interest and, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. You know, different things that talk about givers gain and, and connector's mindset and things of that nature. [00:07:22] Nick Friedman: That helped me figure out ways to add value or be more, interested in, in discovering what people's needs might be, and then be able to tactfully, you know, offer the solution and overcome objections and all the really, I would say, tactical elements of sales. But at the beginning, it, it really just boiled down to, I would say, just taking the shot attempts, like getting out there and, and making the effort. [00:07:42] Nick Friedman: Even if I was throwing up, you know, bricks using the basketball analogy at the, at the beginning. [00:07:47] Lee Brumbaugh: Activity breeds good things. I'm with you a hundred percent. I wanna go back to point that you made around branding. 'cause again, we're seeing it firsthand for those watching I've seen it with, with how you've really instilled the brand to your employees. But we've got a lot of companies that'll be joining in, in that SMB space and branding is, is a tough area, right? [00:08:06] Lee Brumbaugh: It's a crowded area. There's a lot of noise out there. Talk to me about what's really important for creating that brand, doing it consistently. And then lastly, how do you, how do you get it to resonate with all of your employees? So, well, I've seen you firsthand do that. Can you share a little bit about that branding and how it's trickled down to the whole company? [00:08:24] Nick Friedman: Yeah, I think it's iterative and it, and it takes intentionality and, and repetition and reinforcement. We knew we had a catchy name, college CH.U.N.K.S. hauling junk. It's memorable. It's a long tongue twist or mouthful. So it kind of flies in the face of maybe traditional branding best practices. Uh, but we thought of it as kind of a pattern interrupt, not what people typically associated with movers or haulers. And then when we were searching for colors, we were like, well, we wanna stand out. Uh, we actually looked at college sports teams to try to come up with the, the color scheme. my business partner Omar, had gone to the University of Miami and for a smaller. [00:08:57] Nick Friedman: Private university, it's a pretty well known brand. And so we thought, okay, well orange and green stands out. Uh, so let's make that our company colors. And then I think, uh, just sort of. Recognizing that branding is more than just wearing the shirt or passing out the business card or putting a sign out and, and or a website and saying, this is what we do. [00:09:17] Nick Friedman: Or, you know, getting a wrapped truck in our, in our case. Uh, but it's kind of like how you conduct yourselves at all times. We use the analogy in our company that you're, again, sort of on stage, I say like, imagine Oprah or 60 Minutes is following around and they're going to, you know. Show how we behave throughout the day. That is our brand. it's the behavior that we exhibit that then people have a perception that they make about their experience with it. And so brand touches now, you know, it's, it's online, it's on social media, it's on the phone call that you make if you're calling into the, the customer service or to the sales center. And so all of those things to me are what help build the brand or develop the brand. And it's, and it's evolved over time. I'll give an example. You know, in the early years of the business, people kept asking us, you know, well, how do you hire College H.U.N.K.S.? You know, how do you determine whether somebody's a hunk or not? [00:10:06] Nick Friedman: And we kind of actually got a little bit sick of answering that question. So we were like. We need a better answer for that. So I give it to Omar. He came up with this acronym for H.U.N.K.S., which stands for Honest, uniformed, nice, knowledgeable Service. So we basically redefined the term H.U.N.K.S., to be honest, uniform, nice, knowledgeable service. [00:10:23] Nick Friedman: And that has actually become our brand promise. So now when we train our employees, we, we explain like, hey. When they hire, maybe if they don't know our business, uh, a customer doesn't know our business, they might be expecting, you know, a big brony buff dude showing up. And that may or may not be the case, but we, we wanna instill to our clients is they're going to get a trusted, polished, friendly individual that knows how to do the work. [00:10:45] Nick Friedman: And then that has sort of defined, I would say, what our brand. Represents and what people should expect. So it's, it's sort of the emotional feeling that people have when they interact with a business. And so for anybody getting started, or a small business owner, whatever the case may be, you know, your logo may evolve, taglines may evolve and things of that nature. [00:11:04] Nick Friedman: But the brand is sort of the impression that you leave when people see, touch, interact with what it is that you do. [00:11:11] Lee Brumbaugh: Obviously you've grown, you've got a significant amount of employees. We, we know you're in two industries, growing other companies in the service area. How do you get that frontline person who's interacting with the customer every day to buy into their selling, they're creating brand awareness, like they are part of the solution here. [00:11:30] Lee Brumbaugh: How do you, how do you make sure that quality stays, stays so consistent? 'cause you've done it so well at College H.U.N.K.S. [00:11:35] Nick Friedman: Yes. again, I would say starts at leadership and it starts at communication, and then it starts with the way we, enroll people into the organization when they join the company. It actually starts before that. It starts during the interview process. We try to set expectations with our job postings and our interview process. We ask about our core values, how they resonate with the, uh, person that we're interviewing, both as a franchise candidate as well as a, uh, potential employee. And then, and we actually just unrolled kind of our official College H.U.N.K.S. way playbook. Uh, it's almost like a 2.0 version that we rolled out to make sure that everybody's training their frontline employees from the same playbook, uh, when somebody joins the organization. [00:12:16] Nick Friedman: 'Cause as a franchise, to your point, consistency is critical. And, and it's not like a food. Business where people are coming into our stores and getting the same assembly line of, of sandwiches made. It's, we're going into people's homes, we're sending team members out into the community. And so I think it's just reinforcement. I heard it said like the rule of seven in marketing. If somebody as a potential customer, they need to see something at least seven times before it even becomes aware of it. And the same holds true with your staff. Your staff needs to hear and see and have something reinforced. At least seven times before it's something that they, are cognitive of or conscious of. [00:12:54] Nick Friedman: And, and then eventually it becomes second nature for them. I took a page out of Nick Saban, uh, playbook. He's the head Co was the former head coach of Alabama football. And I remember I saw an interview with him and they asked him a similar question. They were like, well, you know, you're graduating guys to the NFL or people are transferring, you know, how do you keep that, that Alabama football, so consistent as a championship team. [00:13:15] Nick Friedman: And he said, you know, the names on the back of the jerseys changed. But the way we've established things here. Alabama football is an identity that people are coming into, and so the new people that are coming in, our existing players are saying, this is how we do things here. So there's sort of a set of standards and, and principles that everybody lives by, and I don't know if it was him or somebody else where I heard it say on a good team, the coaches are holding the players accountable, but on a championship team, the players are holding each other accountable. [00:13:41] Nick Friedman: So that's, it's aspirational. It doesn't happen overnight. Uh, we've had plenty of examples of. You know, people that join the organization and they, they kind of roll their eyes when they start hearing about things like core values and brand promise and or their eyes glaze over and it doesn't really connect. [00:13:55] Nick Friedman: And eventually they either after hearing it seven times or more, start to understand what all that means and what that can do for their role as a employee or what it can do for the customer and the community. Or maybe they don't align with it and we help them, you know, off to a different organization where, where maybe they'll be a better fit. [00:14:41] Lee Brumbaugh: I love playbooks. Right. And not only from a service side, 'cause you know, I mean we did a sales playbook at Trash Butler for College H.U.N.K.S.. And the, the thing that really stands out, it's been the biggest. Probably one of the growth areas for Sales Xceleration are advisors delivering the playbook because it's exactly what you said, it's the consistency. [00:14:58] Lee Brumbaugh: If I go stay at Four Seasons, I know what to expect. We do it from services to know what you expect when, like you said, you come in the home and you leave the home. But even from a sales process, you know, when we start, what is the customer journey? How does it begin? Who gets involved along that customer journey? [00:15:14] Lee Brumbaugh: And the other thing I think is so critical is you gotta make the playbook. interactive and engaging. If it's static, it collects dust. So how do you, how do you continue to refine your process and your playbook to make sure you're always pushing the envelope to deliver around customer service and expectations? [00:15:30] Nick Friedman: I guess continuous improvement is just sort of the mindset there. And, uh, you know, we did this, like I said, this big rollout of our college HS way. Playbook 2.0, but we're already collecting feedback from the [00:15:41] Nick Friedman: field, from the franchise owners, from the managers, from the team members who are going through the training. [00:15:45] Nick Friedman: You know, what's working, what's not working. we're sort of in this world now where everything's evolving to, of course, already digital, but AI based training and, and interactive, uh, you know, short, short little training modules versus, you know, the old fashioned, you know, bind three ring binder [00:16:01] Nick Friedman: With With worksheets and, and I think there's something to be said for both, because I think, you know, just human learning, we still maybe, stuff resonates or sticks a little bit more if you're writing it down on paper or if you're, you know, reading it on paper verse on a, you know, small screen. And so I think. For us, it's, it's evolving with the tools that are evolving with kind of the times and making sure that it's still working out in the field, that our customer service is still, uh, consistent. We're measuring those, uh, things that our turnover isn't increasing. We wanna reduce turnover. So by having, you know, more consistent training. and I've also heard it said, you know, training isn't something we did. It's something we do. [00:16:41] Nick Friedman: And so it's an ongoing event. It's not, you know, you train somebody once and then they're off, you know, playing the, the game for the, the rest of the, the time you look again, a lot of the sports analogies I think are so relevant. they're huddling up before every play. They're practicing throughout the week to go play the game. You know, in business every day is game day, is what we say. So you've gotta have like these little micro moments of training, whether it's in the morning huddle or at the end of the day where you're reviewing, you know, how things did. if you're a manager or a leader, you should be coaching, we say in the locker room and on the field, just going out, you know, doing some sales calls together, uh, with the salespeople or over the phone, or shared zoom, whatever the case may be. it is just continuous improvement and, continuously looking for ways to, you know, enhance the skillset of the, team that's gonna be out there representing. [00:17:30] Lee Brumbaugh: Yeah, I love that. And so many, you know, we talk about that with so many owners that, that we work with. In the SMB space particularly, you're the founder, you're the CEO, you're wearing a lot of different hats. And that training typically comes in and you look at, well, I'm gonna tell you about the business. [00:17:45] Lee Brumbaugh: I'm gonna tell you a bunch of information. I'm just gonna trust that you get it. But you said it, well practice it, train it, coach around it. 'cause you're continuously saying, I think this is how you heard it. But when you have them repeat it back, it's often very different. And I love the ability too. [00:17:58] Lee Brumbaugh: You said it using the tools out there. We have a new productivity partner, uh, called Yodlee, and you can go in and do coaching feedback, you know, you can set it up for different times of the day. You've got AI features that can say, here's where you were lacking in this sales call object, objection handling. [00:18:13] Lee Brumbaugh: There's so much that you can do in the coaching world nowadays that makes it engaging, makes it interactive and makes it sticky. [00:18:19] Nick Friedman: the other thing that came to mind as you were talking, you know, I always say that, And I don't know if I borrowed this from Tony Robbins or what, but, success in business or sales or whatever the case may be, it's a combination of, information, motivation and then removing the interference. [00:18:34] Nick Friedman: So information is like, you know, how do you do something? Uh, but it was Tony Robbins who said, if all we needed was information, we'd all be billionaires. We'd all have six pack abs because, you know. How to get in shape, you can chat GBT, how do I sell X, Y, Z? Or how do I do A, B, C? So you need to have the information on how to do it, but then you also have to have the motivation or the drive or the the want. To do it. And motivation usually comes both intrinsically, internally or externally. And so at college cH.U.N.K.S., you know, we say our motivation is driven by our purpose. Our company purpose is to move the world. It's basically a double meaning. It's making a positive impact in people's lives. So we want our team members to really see that sort of North star as like, I'm here to make an impact in somebody and, and so this is why I am doing what I'm doing. And then the interference is the stuff that, whether it's negative self-talk. Or we get discouraged from that 99th No. Uh, that we heard on the sales call or we're not hitting our numbers and or, you know, we're not closing those deals or we're not, you know, hitting our, our projections. So, you know, how do you remove that interference to just kind of keep picking yourself up to, to keep going? [00:19:38] Nick Friedman: Which I guess comes back to that grit, resilience, uh, no quit mindset that, that we started with. [00:19:44] Lee Brumbaugh: Especially for helping our team members be successful, removing that interference, creating clarity for them is so important. It's not just the accountability piece, it's being a resource, being a leader. I think that's what you've done so well in your company. [00:19:58] Nick Friedman: Obviously you can tell I'm an avid reader and listener. I, I try to just like digest all this stuff and apply it to what we're doing. but, uh, you know, a great coach is somebody that can hold some their team members accountable without their team members being resentful about it. And, uh, you've gotta be able to show your team member that accountability comes with basically. Wanting to be better and me wanting you, my team member, to be better. It's not just because it affects my paycheck, but it's literally like I care about your success as well, uh, in the field. And so I'm, I'm trying to help you be better and holding you accountable to, to be your best self. [00:20:35] Lee Brumbaugh: We've talked about obviously what you've done with. You and no more building College H.U.N.K.S.. Building Trash Butler, we've got joining this, A lot of people will be listening. they're going from their first business to their second or they're thinking about creating the first business. [00:20:48] Lee Brumbaugh: When you were looking at, obviously with College H.U.N.K.S., something resonate, started with your mom, but you know, when you looked at Trash Butler, you build a vision there. What's most important for those that may be joining those, those starting entrepreneurs? When you look at building a business. Was, was there an aha moment? [00:21:04] Lee Brumbaugh: Something that really stands apart that they need to do to be successful when they're looking at that mission of building that first business or that second, I should say too, [00:21:13] Nick Friedman: Number one. If it's your second business, make sure that it's not just a shiny object that you're chasing after at the detriment of your core business. When we launched into Trash Butler, we kind of already had a good foundation with College H.U.N.K.S.. We had a good leadership team. [00:21:27] Nick Friedman: Uh, we saw that it was somewhat adjacent to what we had done with in terms of our, subject matter expertise and, and skillset with, managing a decentralized labor force. [00:21:36] Nick Friedman: Uh, there were some nuanced, obviously, differences to the business. Trash Butler’s not franchise. Uh, it's more B2B versus business to consumer. I use this, framework I call the four F's. When you're looking at whether it's to buy a franchise to, you know, grow yourself, whether it's to start a business from scratch, start a second business, uh, fit, family, financial, and fun, uh, or fulfillment. and so the fit is, is there a transferable skillset? Is, is this something that I can actually apply? My talents to and be good at, the family piece is whether it's spouse, parents, neighbors, you know, inner circle, do they believe in this? Venture that I'm getting ready to pursue because the last thing you want to have happen is you get into something. [00:22:20] Nick Friedman: 'cause every business is gonna be 10 times harder than you thought it was when you got into it. The last thing you wanna have something is somebody saying, I told you you shouldn't do that business. [00:22:27] Nick Friedman: You want your inner circle to be, you know, cheerleading and, and championing for you. [00:22:31] Nick Friedman: 'cause things are gonna be tough. Uh, the financial piece is when you run the projections is the time and the money that you're going to have to invest worth. The return that you're hoping to get. So you've gotta have some sort of financial proforma or projection. Obviously they're always optimistic, but you know, does the conservative model still paper out to make it a worthy and, you know, endeavor to pursue? [00:22:53] Nick Friedman: And then the fun factor or fulfillment factor is like, can I see myself getting outta bed in the morning and doing this? Now I, I would say, I didn't wake up or grow up saying, I want to, you know, envision moving furniture or hauling junk or owning a big moving and hauling business. And I don't think our franchise owners said that either. what I enjoy and I think what our franchise owners enjoy and what they recognize as fun about our business is the coaching component, uh, of the frontline team members. Uh, being able to mentor and develop those young minds, the branding and marketing, having, you know, sort of a creative brand in a more traditional industry, you're able to stand out and make yourself known, have some creative approaches to marketing and community impact. [00:23:32] Nick Friedman: So those are the things that I enjoy that is fun for me. I think our franchise owners. Find fulfillment in that as well. So those would be, I would say, looking at it through those four lenses that those four F's, I think could be helpful. [00:23:44] Lee Brumbaugh: I love four Fs, that that's gonna stick with me and, and some areas that, you know, I didn't think about it was really having family alignment is a great point, but you alluded to it. You need something. At the end of the day, we all wanna wake up in the morning and have something that gives us energy. And it doesn't have to be, like you said, that you loved moving things. [00:23:59] Lee Brumbaugh: It was all the creativity that you put around it. So really well, put as you look, especially as the next business too. [00:24:05] Nick Friedman: And that energy is, you know, there's such thing called an entrepreneurial rollercoaster where, you know, one day you're having a breakdown, the next day you're having a breakthrough. I mean, there's a reason they think, you know, entrepreneurs have some, you know, manic uh, tendencies because, you know, you're, you're riding this emotional rollercoaster. Uh, you know, things are, never easy as, as you hoped they'd be. That takes longer to, to get to the, the vision than you hoped it would be unless you know, You're one of these unicorns that the media ts, but even behind the scenes, those unicorns probably took a long time to, develop before they really blew up. [00:24:34] Nick Friedman: being able to have that steady mindset and, and sort of curtail the, downs or move the interference when things are tough and have the. Confidence to sort of keep pursuing that vision. Uh, you talked about having a vision from the very beginning. So if you do embark on that journey, you know, having a three year sprint, that you're working towards and maybe it pushes out to six years or nine, or our case 20 years, and we're gonna keep pushing it out. [00:24:56] Nick Friedman: And so I think being able to have that, uh, those milestones and that big picture that, uh, you're trying to build towards. [00:25:03] Lee Brumbaugh: All right. Well, I've got one hot seat question for you. Now. I, I mentioned at the beginning audience that you've, uh, you were on the first episode of Shark Tank. I know you've done undercut of her boss. You've done a few of these different things, which has been great for not only your employees, but your brain and what you learned out of it. [00:25:17] Lee Brumbaugh: But anything interesting that you'd share? Like any, uh, funny story, anything interesting that, as you've gone through, also this kind of media, uh, area as well, that, that stood about from Shark Tank or Undercover Boss or any others that you've been a part of? [00:25:31] Nick Friedman: The one that pops into my head was, was sort of media based. We did this thing called Red Bull Fluke Tag last year. If you look it up, you know, College H.U.N.K.S., Red Bull Fluke Tag. It's this, uh, different promotional tour that Red Bull does. Touring around different cities and competitors or, or I guess, contestants enroll or, apply to participate. [00:25:51] Nick Friedman: And you have to build a self manmade flying machine. Uh, and launch off of a 30 foot platform into water because the Red Bull supposed to give you wings. [00:26:01] Lee Brumbaugh: Gives wing. Yeah. [00:26:02] Nick Friedman: We created one called College H.U.N.K.S. Flying Junk. I guess I drew the shortest straw because only one person is the one that gets actually launched in the machine. [00:26:10] Nick Friedman: The other four people push you off the platform. So Omar, my business partner, got to be one of the pushers and I, I'm the one who flew off this platform and, uh, you know, in my early forties, I, I would've been happy to do it 20 years ago, but I did it in my early forties and, and I don't think I would venture to do it again. [00:26:25] Nick Friedman: 'cause I was sore for about two weeks after. Hitting the water and tensing up every muscle in my body. But thank goodness I didn't fall on this, flying contraption we created, I got launched, I think I pushed off my legs as we hit the platform. 'cause I got launched. They said further than any human has gotten launched, it was almost like a catapult out of that. [00:26:42] Nick Friedman: So I think there's sort of a parallel there, or maybe some metaphor there in, in, you know, entrepreneurship, right? You're sort of taking this leap into the unknown, into the abyss, uh, or you're building the plane in flight, right? [00:26:55] Nick Friedman: And, and trying to figure out, you know, how you're gonna keep it, keep it flying. So, I'm big on encouraging people to stretch their comfort zone. You know, I know a lot of entrepreneurs will train for, you know, half marathons or climb mountains or run Ironman. I'm perfectly content just going to the gym and doing my hourly routine. [00:27:11] Nick Friedman: So I think doing some of these other things, Omar and I did, another one just popped into my head. Omar and I did something called the, uh, CEO Comedy Challenge [00:27:18] Nick Friedman: We had to come up with a 12 minute, uh, standup comedy set, uh, which, you know, 12 minutes might as well have been 12 hours standing up there trying to, you know, tell jokes to an audience. But that was, you know, again, a stretch of the comfort zone. So, uh, for me, you know, I think, uh, being an entrepreneur kind of gives us those opportunities that open the door, and if it sounds interesting and fun and maybe not too dangerous. Unlike jumping off a 30 foot platform, I'm all for it. [00:27:44] Lee Brumbaugh: I did watch some of the comedy one and you, you, you actually got some skills in the jokes I laughed at. I I had a couple laughs. It was, it was good And then the other question is, what was your wife's opinion on the, uh, flying out of the, uh, launching yourself into, did you get alignment there or was this a just entrepreneur going with it? [00:27:59] Nick Friedman: That was a bit of an entrepreneurial curve ball. Uh, both my wife and my dad had one-on-one conversations with me leading up to it 'cause they had watched some of the videos of other flu tags and they were like, I really don't think you should do this. I really want reconsider. [00:28:12] Nick Friedman: And I definitely did reconsider. I, although I did change my launch point, I think I was supposed to be on top of it, initially on top of the truck, but I then repositioned myself to inside the truck. But like on the front of it, it was like an open front. And I launched forward as we, the truck was coming off the platform. [00:28:28] Nick Friedman: So, warnings did gimme some, uh, pause as to how we tackled it. 'cause I, I'm also kind of a ready, fire, aim type of guy. But my, as my wife likes to say, there's certain things you can't aim after you fired. You've gotta, you know. Make sure that at least you have some semblance of what you're aiming at. [00:28:44] Lee Brumbaugh: I'm glad it was just soreness. So, uh, and, and you love to tell about it. So, last thing I'll say, you know, again, a lot of business owners, $5 million companies, $10 million companies will be listening to this. Anything that really, one last thing that you want a parting area That I'm a $5 million company I want to get to 10. [00:29:02] Lee Brumbaugh: Anything that, that you want is a key takeaway that they can, that they can take and put into place with their business starting tomorrow. [00:29:10] Nick Friedman: There's a book, I think Dan Sullivan wrote it called 10x is Easier Than 2x, and he also wrote The Gap and the Gain. Uh, but there's a chapter in the 10x is Easier Than 2x about the gap versus the gain. I think there's also always a tendency, I'm guilty of it myself, to be looking ahead, uh, especially in a growth stage entrepreneur, you're looking at. Other successful entrepreneurs that are further ahead of you, and you're always worried about that gap. the distance between where you are in this sort of unreachable ideal. But the problem is that gap always continues to move because the moment you reach that ideal, the goalpost moves and now you're trying to reach another one. That book and, and the chapter and, and the other one really encourages you to focus on the gain, meaning where you started. To where you are today. Anybody who started a business already has a lot to be proud of and consider themselves successful, especially as you mentioned, whether it's a million, 5 million, I think I saw a statistic less than 98% of small businesses ever make it to a million in annual revenue. [00:30:06] Nick Friedman: And so, you know, to know that you're in the, already in that sort of elite air, puts you in a mind instead of gratitude. That doesn't mean you stop striving for gradual improvement or, or maximizing potential or even 10xing your business, but it allows you to do it, I think, in a way where you're not sort of like. Feeling with a, you know, place of scarcity or, or glass half full. You're approaching business every day with a place of abundance, a place of gratitude. And I think it'll, it puts you in a head space where you can lead a lot more effectively. You're, you're not leading from a place of fear or, greed. [00:30:36] Nick Friedman: And, and so I think I would encourage that either looking at that chapter or just kind of contemplating the, the continued journey to do it from a. Be proud of how far you've come. And now be excited about how much further you can take this from a potential standpoint and, don't get complacent. [00:30:51] Nick Friedman: Uh, I think Nick Saban also said complacency leads to bad decisions. Bad decisions lead to bad outcomes. So, you know, if you're in that five to 10 million or even, you know, one to five or 10, 10 to 50, whatever the case may be, there's also sometimes a tendency to become complacent, and that could be a dangerous place as well. [00:31:07] Lee Brumbaugh: I really like that, Nick. I will. I will definitely check out the book, check out the chapter, and you're right, our entrepreneurs have a lot to be proud of, just having the ability to see the vision of where they want to go and have the initiative take, the risk to go out and do it and accomplish something is amazing. [00:31:21] Lee Brumbaugh: So. Well, Nick, I really appreciate you joining us today. This has been great. Uh, I'm Lee with Sales Against The Odds. Again, we're focused on giving business owners tangible solutions that we can put into place. [00:31:40] Lee Brumbaugh: Nick, thanks for joining us. [00:31:42] Nick Friedman: Thanks Lee.