Latest / Legal Late Night / From Partner to Solo: Launching a Law Firm Brand & Winning Referrals (feat. Rob Hartigan)

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From Partner to Solo: Launching a Law Firm Brand & Winning Referrals (feat. Rob Hartigan) · Legal Late Night

• Jared Correia (00:00:00): Hello everybody. We've got a show that promises to be at least mildly interesting for your listening and watching enjoyment. I'm your host, Jared Correia. I'm the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting. For my monologue, I've got some garden variety growth pointers for small law firms trying to get big. Well, bigger. In the interview, it's Rob Hartigan of Lion Heart Injury Law. That's right. It's back to back Rob's on the Legal Late Night podcast, not even planned, but you can hear this one Roar. On the counter program, the wheel of justice is back. We'll Rob pass the test. Stay tuned. (00:00:45): So I was asked to do a CLE presentation the other day, and somebody asked me, "What is your growth roadmap for small law firms?" And I never really thought of that, honestly, because frankly, I'm somewhat ignorant and not very self-reflective. So I was thinking to myself at a high level, how would I advise somebody to grow a small law firm? Of course, you want to have conversations with people on a recurring basis about this, both people on your team and also maybe a consultant. In any event, I came up with several tips across several different categories of law firm management. Technology, process management, staffing, financial management, and marketing. So let's get to it because you don't only want to look big when a bear is attacking you in the forest. Not that that's ever happened to me. First, technology. The main thing you want to do with technology to grow a law firm is, first of all, make sure you have the right technology in place. (00:01:52): I get so many calls from attorneys who are stuck in the wrong technology and it just impedes growth at scale. It's tough to get people to buy in to bad or the wrong technology. It's tough to work on it yourself as the owner of the business, and it becomes really hard to implement processes and automations. More on that in a second. So you really want to take your time to vet technology. Don't just read one article on Google and say you're done. You want to actually test products, you want to ask the right questions. You want to put these programs through their paces before you adopt them. And you're not just buying stuff and saying, "Oh, I'm sure I can get this to work around what I need." You want a product that is suited for what you need done in your office. So you want to be asking yourself that first. (00:02:40): What do I want for technology? What do I want these systems to do? And then you find the products to fit that. It takes time, takes effort, which is why a lot of business owners don't want to do it, but you got to do it. The next piece of this is if you've got the right technology in place, you got to leverage it for efficiency. So you want to be as efficient as possible in your law firm. So you want the technology to do as much as it can for you. And that now includes AI technology. So when you're thinking about, how do I build out a practice? How do I make it really revenue generating? You got to be efficient because that means it's going to increase your ability to take on new work. And because law is a service business, the more work you can take on, the more money you make. (00:03:23): So you want to be thinking about efficiency after you choose the technology. I've got the right stuff in place. How do I now become as efficient as possible? Next, process management. If you want to have a growing law firm from solo to small, from small to something bigger, you really need to embrace process. That's where you're going to get your most efficiency. So you want to have workflows in place for everything. In terms of process, one of the things that people skip over is establishing data baselines. So people always ask me questions like this, "Well, should I track my conversion rate in my law firm? Should I track this? Should I track that? " And the question I always ask to their query is, "Well, what are you doing on that front now?" And people want to skip the baseline part of it, but you need to know if you're going to improve what you're doing currently. (00:04:16): So if you're thinking about process, you got to build workflows, obviously, but you also, once you get that done, want to figure out, okay, how efficient are we right now or how are we performing in this category because you want to have a goal for improvement. Once you get processes in place, then you want to build out specific KPIs or metrics for managing your firm and you want to review them consistently. If you've chosen the right software, there are plenty out of the box KPIs that you can use, a bunch of reports accessible to you, but you can also create your own reports if you want to as well, building from templates potentially. Again, you're going to want to see whether the software allows you to do that or whether it limits your reporting capacity in any way. So make sure you've got those KPIs built out and you're reviewing them because they're going to change over time. (00:05:07): You achieve goals, you move on to the next KPI. You want to see where things are trending. Number three, you want to have a system in place for staffing your team. You want to have a hiring protocol. Hardly anybody has this. When they're like, "Ah, I'm going to bring somebody on to the firm." They're usually like, "I'll just wing it. I'm sure it'll be fine. I'll ask 10 people in my network and call it a day." But you want to have a process and protocol for that. You're a small firm, so you're not going to have somebody who manages that for you. You're not going to have an HR director, so this has got to be you. But if you build a process around this, it'll be easier to implement hiring down the line too when you do hire up and have more administrative people to help you out. (00:05:47): Next, retention strategies. Because the job market is still really hot for attorneys, especially in certain categories like family law attorneys, it's going to be really important for you to have retention strategies to keep people on board. So you want to think about how do I make my employees happy and keep them happy because they're going to get poached. This is where the KPIs come in. Metrics, incentives, you need to generate those as well. So the idea is you have metrics in place, you have KPIs in place, you tie those to incentives for people to work through. They have incentives that are pretty clear what it is in terms of what they need to do, and then they can earn extra money. And if you build that out correctly, there's benefit for the law firm and for the employees as well. Last thing on staffing, you want to have a granular profit analysis in your firm. (00:06:38): So you want to be looking at, for this role, associate attorney, junior associate, paralegal, what is the profitability of each role? Not just what is the profitability of the firm in its entirety. And also you want to be looking at profitability per location. The more you can drill down on these questions, the better sense you have of the profit of the firm. Now moving on to financial metrics, I just talked about some, but what you want to do here is have your metrics in place for managing the financial suitability of your law firm, and you want to surface that data ideally through dashboards and software because frankly, that's something you want to look at every day, every week, every month, the more, the better. And then again, you can build out some of these metrics or some of them are going to be built into the software. (00:07:30): So I find that a lot of attorneys ignore financial questions in the firm. They stick their head in the sand and they hope they go away. But what you want to be able to do is stay on top of your finance on a regular basis. You don't want to guess, you want to know what's happening. Lastly, marketing. Most law firms are still based on referral-based marketing, which is cool.That works, but that's only one thing that you can be doing. And if you expand your ability to market, you're going to expand your ability to generate leads and clients. So once you've got your referral marketing base down, and we'll talk about that more with Rob in a second. You want to add content marketing strategies if you haven't already. That's going to be a second bucket where you can generate leads. The third thing you're going to want to do is add a paid advertising component of some kind and there's a whole host of ways to do this on top of your current content marketing program. (00:08:30): So you don't have to launch a law firm necessarily with all these things humming at one time, but you can add those on as you go. So those are my basic growth tips for law firms. We should shut it down from here. I guess what more do you need to know? No, but stick around because that will have been almost as perfectly cromulant as Rob Hartigan himself. He of Lionhart Injury Law. He's next, Defending Justice and the like. Find out how. (00:09:05): Well, I've effectively run out of things to say, which is awkward because this is a podcast, so I will just sit here without speaking while I audibly pass gas. Actually, that sounds horrible. I am pathetic. We'll just do the show instead. That'll be better. Probably. Plus everyone in my house will appreciate my discretion. Our guest today, what better introduction? Rob Hartigan, the owner of Lionhart Injury Law in Atlanta. Rob, welcome. How are you? Thank Rob Hartigan (00:09:36): You. I'm doing very well. Thank you so much for having me on. Jared Correia (00:09:40): Yeah, my pleasure. Here we are in Thunder Dome. Lionhart Injury Law is your business and you're kicking ass. So congratulations. Thank you. Rob Hartigan (00:09:50): Thank you. Jared Correia (00:09:52): I think what are we at? 15 months or so post-firm launch or longer than that at this point? Rob Hartigan (00:09:59): Longer than that. I think so. It was June 24. So was that a year and a half now? 18 months, almost. Jared Correia (00:10:07): The anniversary date. Happy early anniversary. Oh, thank you. So I always try to ask people about their origin story on the show. So what was it that made you decide to start your own law firm? Because that is not easy to do. It takes a lot of balls to do that, frankly. Rob Hartigan (00:10:28): Yeah, it's not easy. It's a pretty scary thing to do, especially for your whole working history, even pre-lawyer life, you were working for somebody else and getting a weekly paycheck. So I guess where that just started is I was a partner at another firm and doing PI there. Jared Correia (00:10:58): Yeah, you do personal injury law. I should mention that. Yeah, go ahead. Well, it says Lyinghart Injury Law. So if you were listening, you know. Rob Hartigan (00:11:05): Yes. No, but very good question. But we do not do anything other than personal injury law. So there are some injury firms out there who will dabble in other areas, but not us. Oh, that's true. Yeah. We only do personal injury. So at the time, so early 2024, my wife essentially got her dream job in Atlanta where she's from. Race car driver? No. No. It's Jared Correia (00:11:35): My dream Rob Hartigan (00:11:36): Job.That would be really cool. So that would certainly make for a more interesting origin story. But no, she's a speech language pathologist, now runs her own lab at the big hospital here in downtown Atlanta. And so she got offered her dream job and I couldn't say no. And I'd spent most of my life living in Boston, born and raised there, love it there, but I wanted to support my wife. And so it was time for me to come down to Atlanta and try to do this on my own. So Jared Correia (00:12:21): You were kind of an entrepreneur by force in some ways. In some ways, yeah. I mean, it was drips you made, but the circumstances kind of helped. But still, I mean, you had to ... Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Rob Hartigan (00:12:32): Yeah. Oh, and I want to put out there that at the time I had already been licensed in Georgia, so that made the transition a little bit easier. So that was ... I got licensed in Georgia, I think, at the end of 2022. Jared Correia (00:12:50): Okay. So now from a financial perspective, because I know this is the big circle for a lot of people, you mentioned that I'm not getting a paycheck anymore. What the hell happens? How do I make money? So how did you consider like, all right, from a financial standpoint, what am I going to do? I've never done this before. Rob Hartigan (00:13:10): Right, right. I mean, you really have to sit there and do the analysis of, do you have the money to be able to do it? Because in PI, it's a long time that can go by before money comes in the door. So you really had to do your research as far as how much it's going to cost just to get going and even trying to run it as lean and mean as possible, you still at least have to have a budget because otherwise you could just be spending money and not knowing where it's going. So yeah, I mean, I started the firm and started the practice in June of 24. And so I had already some cases that I was working with with my old firm, and so that was a good foundation to get some revenue in. And meanwhile, while that's happening, I now have a bunch of new cases coming in through the new firm. (00:14:22): So then I had some pretty big cases that I was able to resolve in 24 and in 25. So that really laid the foundation to build from there. So it wasn't Jared Correia (00:14:38): Like- You started to map that out. You're like, "This is what my runway looks like. Rob Hartigan (00:14:41): " Yeah. Yeah. I'm not starting from absolute ground zero, which is, I think for a lot of PI lawyers who decide that, hey, they want to do their own thing, but they've never had any experience in generating business, which I had a pretty good amount of success doing just through a lot of organic networking and relationship building. But when you still take the risk, you don't know if people are going to reach out to when the next case is going to come in. Jared Correia (00:15:13): It's Rob Hartigan (00:15:14): Like stepping off a Jared Correia (00:15:14): Cliff. Rob Hartigan (00:15:16): Yeah, you're just gambling on yourself and I'm so happy I did it because it's really worked out. Jared Correia (00:15:22): Yes. Looks like you rolled sevens. So what's interesting about this too is that you started with a brand name, which a lot of law firms, very few law firms have a brand name. So how did you come up with that and how did you go about the process of deploying it into the market? Rob Hartigan (00:15:45): So with the brand name, I just didn't want to slap my name on the door and be like 90% of the other firms out there and call it Hartigan and Associates or something. To me, that was boring. And how do you separate yourself from every other law firm that's just, they have their partner's names on the door. And I also thought looking ahead that it kind of avoids hopefully any conversation with an associate attorney who you're going to make partner about them having their name on the door and the importance of that. And it's like, well, nobody's name's on the door. Jared Correia (00:16:24): Yes. Right. So egalitarian. Rob Hartigan (00:16:29): Yeah. Yeah. So with coming up with a brand name, I was just trying to think of something creative and something that had good messaging and there were a bunch of bad names I'd come up with. There's a running list I have somewhere. Jared Correia (00:16:46): It's a discovery process. Rob Hartigan (00:16:47): Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a running list somewhere. I'd have to find it. But anyway, so I came up with this name and I remember at the time, I don't know how it's going to land. Are people going to think this is stupid? Because brand name's still on a big thing in the legal industry, right? Jared Correia (00:17:07): Yes. I think a lot of lawyers are like, "What is this even about? Why would I do that? " But I think you elucidated why it's important. So go ahead. Rob Hartigan (00:17:16): Yeah. So I came up with Lionhart Injury Law, and so Lionhart, it's the last name Hartigan that took a piece of that. So Jared Correia (00:17:26): May I just say for those listening, Hart in the brand name is spelled H-A-R-T, which is clever. Rob Hartigan (00:17:34): Thank you. So we did that and the Lion, I'm a Leo. So I thought, "Okay, well, this sounds cool." And from there we did all the business organization stuff and I ended up hiring somebody to come up with the logo and went through freelancer. So there was a bunch of logos. I mean, it might've been 80, and that was the best one out of all of them. And we just launched and ran with it and said, "Okay, well, let's see how this goes." And the response- Jared Correia (00:18:12): And just to be clear for those listening, you had a brand name and nobody was like, "You're an asshole." The Rob Hartigan (00:18:18): Response is positive, Jared Correia (00:18:19): Right? Rob Hartigan (00:18:20): Right, right. The response was very positive. I was waiting for, hey, I was waiting for the you're an asshole text message and it never came through. Jared Correia (00:18:29): What are they doing, bro? Rob Hartigan (00:18:31): Yeah. Now maybe behind the scenes somebody's like, "Well, this guy's an asshole." Jared Correia (00:18:36): Keep that to yourselves. Rob Hartigan (00:18:37): Yeah, yeah. Right. So we put together this launch plan and I said, "Okay, well, for an announcement, what's the best approach?" And I said, "Okay, well, let's do a video." And so I put that together myself. Jared Correia (00:18:57): Well, you put together this trailer video basically. Rob Hartigan (00:19:00): The trailer video. Yeah. Trailer office. Jared Correia (00:19:01): Coming soon, law firm. Yeah. Which is something not a lot of law firms do either. Rob Hartigan (00:19:07): And I had a professional voice actor. She did the voice of work for me. I came up with just a mini script, nothing too long. Jared Correia (00:19:17): Yeah. Rob Hartigan (00:19:18): Yep. And I wanted a woman's voice because I thought it just would be more appropriate and it's different because I mean, so many law firms and particularly in PI, it's very male dominated. Yes. So I thought that would be good. And then we launched in early September and the response was fantastic. I don't think I could have asked for a better response. So tons of support, we did a launch on LinkedIn and Instagram and I think it landed very well. Jared Correia (00:19:57): That's awesome. So people are out there considering brand names. It's not a crazy idea at all. And if you were not in the legal business, it's much more normalized there. Rob Hartigan (00:20:07): Right. Yeah. There's some other considerations too. And yeah, I mean, test some stuff out, do your research, make sure that name isn't already taken. And you can do Google searches, you can search the US patent trademark office. Definitely do your due diligence and research before. Jared Correia (00:20:37): Yes. Rob Hartigan (00:20:38): I think that's very wise. Jared Correia (00:20:40): Yes. Rob Hartigan (00:20:40): Not after. Yeah. Before after. Don't Jared Correia (00:20:43): Spend the money on the process before you know you get a solid name. Yeah. Rob Hartigan (00:20:47): Yeah. And with me, I remember, I mean, going back to summer of 24, I mean, I had a pretty good network. So again, you just- Jared Correia (00:21:00): Okay. Let me stop you there because I want to talk to you about this too. Rob Hartigan (00:21:03): Yes. Jared Correia (00:21:04): I mean, I think you're a gangster when it comes to referral based marketing. Seriously. Thank you. It's funny. It's interesting to me because when a lot of law firms now run by younger attorneys, they're just like, "I'll get all my clients from the web." And fewer and fewer of them I think are focused on referral networking, but you've done a tremendous job of that, building out your firm. So can you talk a little bit about why and how you did that? Rob Hartigan (00:21:31): Yeah. So for me it was about, again, I approach networking from the standpoint of relationship building and how can we help each other out. And when you focus on building the relationship, it's more meaningful and referrals are just naturally going to come from there. Jared Correia (00:21:54): Yes. Rob Hartigan (00:21:57): And I spent years doing it in a long time, right? Jared Correia (00:22:01): Yeah, you put in the time. Rob Hartigan (00:22:02): And very intentional and very intentional networking. And I'd been involved with some of those networking groups. Everybody's probably heard of the same ones. And with those groups, it's very forced the networking. Jared Correia (00:22:22): But just on the networking groups, you're kind of going with legal networking groups. You also have generic business groups, so you're not necessarily limiting your focus, right? Rob Hartigan (00:22:31): Yeah, it was a mix. I mean, it was a couple of just the general networking groups. And then for legal networking, I was very involved with Massachusetts Bar Association, Essex County Bar Association. In Jared Correia (00:22:48): Massachusetts. Yeah. Rob Hartigan (00:22:49): Yeah. So I built up relationships that way and shifting again to Georgia, I'm a member of the Georgia Trial Lawyers Association. I'm part of their lead class this year, which is just this tremendous group of really awesome young trial lawyers. And it's very, very hard to get into that class. I feel very fortunate that I was able to get accepted and just the relationship and they want you to get to know each other and build those relationships. So I mean, I already had experience doing it, and so it was pretty natural for me just to meet people and be part of the group. And so going back to the networking with respect to getting referrals, cases just started coming in and getting referred to me. And I was doing a very good job with those cases and client contact. And those are where all my biggest cases come from still was just people I know, other attorneys. (00:24:07): And then clients will refer other clients to me and so on and so on. So I think the ... And at least my approach is that's a great strong foundation to build. I agree. Because if you try to go at it as saying, "Okay, well, I'm just going to get cases from marketing online." I think that's just really, again, you're going to Vegas and at the slot machine and just dropping money in. Jared Correia (00:24:39): And not for nothing, but it takes time to build domain authority too, the same way it takes to build a reputation in person. Rob Hartigan (00:24:45): Right, right. And that doesn't happen overnight. So there's so much work involved, which I don't think a lot of lawyers appreciate how much work goes into building an online presence, right? Jared Correia (00:25:01): Yes. Rob Hartigan (00:25:02): And Jared Correia (00:25:02): Particularly- Let's talk about that next because ... So you've been at it for like 18 months, kicking asset referral networking, that's going really well. Now you're probably at the point where you're like, how do I expand into different marketing platforms? So how do you think about that and what are you testing? Rob Hartigan (00:25:22): So for me, again, I'm looking at it and saying, okay, well, what's everybody else doing and how can we be different? Jared Correia (00:25:32): Yeah. Rob Hartigan (00:25:32): Okay. And not that I have any marketing secrets here. Don't Jared Correia (00:25:41): Tell me the secrets. Keep those to yourself. Rob Hartigan (00:25:43): Yeah. Yeah. No, I'll keep those to myself. I will say, and I'm not the first person to say this, most attorneys are bad at marketing. Jared Correia (00:25:53): I'll say it. If you're an attorney and you're listening, you probably fucking suck at marketing. So listen to what Rob's about to say. Rob Hartigan (00:26:00): So they don't know, first of all, how to use each platform. And I'm not saying I'm sort of any social media expert. For example, LinkedIn, right? LinkedIn isn't for selling. You're not going on there to sell your service or what you do, right? Jared Correia (00:26:19): But you should look at my inbox. No, I'm just kidding. Go ahead. Rob Hartigan (00:26:24): So I see attorneys doing that and I just roll my eyes because it's just not what you should be doing. LinkedIn is great for sharing stories, giving some tips, but you don't go in there and say, "Hey, hire me. " And then when it comes to online SEO, again, you've really got to find a great ... And there's tons of people out there, but you need to do your research as far as who you should hire for SEO. That's important. And then your website and find a really good website designer and the branding needs to be there. You don't want to be like every other lawyer who has the ticking that photograph in front of the law library. Jared Correia (00:27:19): My favorite version of that is they're taking the photograph and they look surprised that the photograph is being taken. Not a great look either. Rob Hartigan (00:27:26): Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, again, my website, the first thing you click on is, first thing you see is this big lion and who's majestic or whatever. Very interesting. And I thought it was like, "Oh, that's different." And then you can see all the other info on the website and we're still building that too. Jared Correia (00:27:52): Right. So work in progress, always. Rob Hartigan (00:27:54): Yeah. Instagram. Instagram's great if you want to share case results, just interesting stories, just connect with people. But there's something about posting too much too. I think if you post too much, you just annoy people. Jared Correia (00:28:20): So you're trying to get into the middle lane, basically. Rob Hartigan (00:28:24): Yeah. I think you want to be there, share the successes when they happen, but that in itself isn't going to get you cases, right? I think there's so many layers to it and what you need to do, but you need to be on there to at least be visible. Jared Correia (00:28:49): Now you're also looking at launching some video stuff, which I think is really important on a go forward basis for attorneys. And then I think you also have a podcast with a couple episodes out as well, right? You want to talk to me a little bit about that? Rob Hartigan (00:29:03): Yeah. So the podcast that we're ... I don't know when this is going to be released, but the podcast- Jared Correia (00:29:10): I will be released tomorrow, Rob. Rob Hartigan (00:29:12): Oh, okay. All right. So Gone Willy. Yes. So our podcast is being released, I think it's next week is the official release date. So be on the lookout for that. But the idea with the podcast is me and a Jared Correia (00:29:31): Different of mine. Go ahead, say the name. By the way, I would like to know for the audience on YouTube, I just checked my watch, which doesn't exist. But anyway, go ahead. Rob Hartigan (00:29:41): Yeah. So the podcast, it's called Lawyers in the Wild and it's- Jared Correia (00:29:47): Great name. Rob Hartigan (00:29:48): Host, thank you. Hosted by my great friend, attorney Lindsay Eagan and I. Jared Correia (00:29:54): Friend of the show? Rob Hartigan (00:29:55): Yes. Friend of the show. For Jared Correia (00:29:57): Those unaware, Lindsay Eagan comes on when we have Of pop culture content, real housewife stuff, which I don't watch. Rob Hartigan (00:30:06): Yeah. She's one of my best friends and she is the best family law and estate planning attorney in Massachusetts, just to give her Jared Correia (00:30:12): A vote. Oh yeah, here we go. Rob Hartigan (00:30:14): So Poppy Levaub. She's located in Manchester. She's fantastic. So definitely reach out. So we just wanted to create something fun. (00:30:25): And there's a lot of lawyer podcasts out there and some of them are fantastic. And they talk about, "Hey, here's how to do a deposition." Yes, like this one. There's a lot of podcasts out there about how do you do a deposition, how to select the right experts and how do you do a great opening and closing statement and trial? And we just wanted to have fun conversations with lawyers and people in the legal industry to basically strip away what people think of lawyers as just being really stiff and boring and whatever and just show the human Jared Correia (00:31:09): Side- Greedy, obnoxious. I'll stop. Rob Hartigan (00:31:11): Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Greety, obnoxious, and really try to capture the human part of the lawyer and just bring out fun conversations. And it's not just attorneys, it's various people in the legal industry. And we thought it would be just great to do that with audio and video. And that, again, is just another way to market ourselves and to get content out there. Jared Correia (00:31:44): That's a good point you made, by the way. If you're going to do a podcast, you got to do the video. Otherwise, it's not even worth doing, to be perfectly frank about it. Rob Hartigan (00:31:52): Yeah. I think in the culture we're now in, people, they're going to watch the YouTube shorts and they might not even be listening, but maybe they're just reading the text that's scrolling. But people's attention spans nowadays are so low that, again, they need to listen to something on a car ride or if they're on the train and just the little quick snippets of audio and video to capture their attention. But again, I mean, that just goes to video content marketing. And we're also doing some stuff in my marketing team with respect to recording video content for the website and YouTube. Jared Correia (00:32:45): Oh yeah. Yeah. Long and short form video as well as the podcast that you're doing. Rob Hartigan (00:32:51): Yep. And for that, that's a whole separate ... As far as how to do that in an effective way with linking the SEO up with the video and the quality of the video. Jared Correia (00:33:09): It's a lot of separate components, but you got to tie them together in the end. You're right about that. Rob Hartigan (00:33:14): Yeah. And I think that when you look at attorneys, I mean, most attorneys and law firms still aren't doing video content marketing. And you can put out a couple of videos, but it doesn't matter unless you're consistently doing it. Correct. So for me, I feel that where a lot of attorneys where they, I guess, drop the ball or they fail at that is they have excuses. Oh, I don't have time for that. And the other piece of it too is they might just be ... And I see this too, they might be relying on their legacy and just thinking that's going to continue to bring in cases, but- People get very comfortable. Yeah. And the game's changing. So Google results are changing, Google's putting out more AI generator results. Yes. And again, I'm not an SEO expert, but I think part of the AI results come from, well, who has a strong online presence and who's out there putting out video? (00:34:37): Because that is authority. If you're making video, there's your authority. And I think YouTube, Google, they all work with each other. Jared Correia (00:34:47): Yeah. Unfortunately, a lot of the AI stuff, the same shit you were doing for content marketing five years ago still can work in that space. Yeah. All right. Let me ask you one more thing. So you roll out the practice, you're building out the marketing. How do you pick a technology platform? Because the cool thing about starting a practice is like, I can leave all that shitty ass software for my old law firm behind and I can build Tabularosa what I want. So how did you go about engaging that process? Rob Hartigan (00:35:19): So I had vetted a few different software companies. I knew what I liked and I knew what I didn't like. And there were some close calls. At the end of the day, I had talked to some colleagues and asked what they were using and they all raved. I don't know if I can give a plug here, but they- Yeah, Jared Correia (00:35:37): Go ahead. You can say the company. Rob Hartigan (00:35:39): Okay. They all raise about Filevine. Jared Correia (00:35:41): Yeah. Rob Hartigan (00:35:41): Filevine's a good Jared Correia (00:35:42): Product. They just emailed me today to get Ryan Anderson on the show. Ryan, if you're listening, the answer's yes. Go ahead, Rob Hartigan (00:35:48): Rob. It's a phenomenal product. I love it very much. I'm going to overly plug this, so maybe I'll get a discount in the future now. Jared Correia (00:36:01): Well played. I see what you did there. Rob Hartigan (00:36:02): If I could get six three months. No, it truly is, I think, the best product out there. It's really helped me build and run an efficient practice. Yeah. Jared Correia (00:36:18): Case management software, people are not aware of what this is. Rob Hartigan (00:36:21): Yeah. And it's constantly evolving. So there's the base level product and then there's other features you can add on and some AI features you can add on and some deposition software. There's so much that it does, but at least from my experience, if I've ever had any issues, tech issues, they're super responsive. They just jump on a Zoom call and help you figure it out. Jared Correia (00:36:50): Yes. Rob Hartigan (00:36:53): I've never had any issues with it being slow or delays with pages loading. It's been very, very good. And then on top of it, they have their annual workshop, seminar, conference. Jared Correia (00:37:09): Oh yeah, the Lextech conference, which I think is in San Diego next year, if you're down. Rob Hartigan (00:37:14): It is. Yeah. It's a great conference. So it's a mix of working the software, trying to get better with using the software and some conversations about business planning and marketing. So they really do a phenomenal job with that conference. But yeah, there was that. And then trying to find companies who work on the medical records retrieval side of things.That was challenging. I think I found a very good product with Artrieval. Arctrivly, Jared Correia (00:37:49): Yep. Rob Hartigan (00:37:50): Yeah. I mean, those are really the two big tech products that I use. You Jared Correia (00:37:57): Use the CRM as well, right? Rob Hartigan (00:37:59): Yes. Yeah. LeadDocket. So LeadDocket- Which is Jared Correia (00:38:02): Also a Filevine product. Rob Hartigan (00:38:04): Yeah. LeadDocket and VinSign are both Filevine products and they're excellent as well. And it's great-signed for Jared Correia (00:38:10): E-signature. Rob Hartigan (00:38:12): Yeah. They all work together. So it's just super efficient just to be able to use those products versus- Jared Correia (00:38:20): So you were like, let me buy into this environment. Rob Hartigan (00:38:23): So Jared Correia (00:38:23): I have sort of a unified platform to run the firm. Rob Hartigan (00:38:28): Yeah. And even, again, Arctrieval works with Filevine, it's integrated. So I really wanted to lean into technology and make things more efficient because the personal injury practice, there's a lot of lawyers who are still doing things the old school way and writing stuff- Jared Correia (00:38:48): Yeah, it's a lot of inefficiencies built into that business Rob Hartigan (00:38:50): Too. Yeah, super inefficient. So I wanted to change that and do it better. Jared Correia (00:38:59): Rob, you're crushing it. Let's have some fun. Do you want to hang in for another segment before you go? Rob Hartigan (00:39:05): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Let's do it. All right, Jared Correia (00:39:07): Everybody. We'll be right back with Rob Hartigan. Welcome to The Counter Program. Welcome back. It's a podcast within a podcast. This is a conversational space where we can address usually unrelated topics that I want to explore at a greater depth with my guests. Expect no rhyme and very little reason. Rob, welcome back. How you feeling? Rob Hartigan (00:39:32): I'm feeling good. Thank you. Jared Correia (00:39:33): Great. All right. You'll be feeling even better in a second because we're bringing back one of our favorite recurring segments called The Wheel of Justice that I'll turn to now. This is based on the wheel of drinks at Bukowski Tavern in Boston, where you spin the wheel and buy whatever drink the wheel dictates because the wheel is wise and most of all the wheel is just ... So Rob Hartigan (00:39:56): Rob, have you been to Bukowski? No. I've known a few yes. Jared Correia (00:40:02): We got to change that. Rob Hartigan (00:40:04): I know it's legendary though. Jared Correia (00:40:06): Bukowski is great. So I always tell the story before we start. I took Evan to Bukowski's and we spun the wheel and I think Evan got three non-alcoholic beers in a row. Okay. So he had a terrible night. That's how it works. Rob Hartigan (00:40:20): Yeah. Is there anything good on the wheel at Bacowski's? Jared Correia (00:40:25): No, they got some good beers on there. Yeah. But they got to throw some stinkers in there though, because then there'd be no risk involved. Rob Hartigan (00:40:34): Evan just had a bad night. You get to eat the moldy cheese from the refrigerator unit. Jared Correia (00:40:40): Yeah. Fortunately no food. Just a drink. Yeah. So Rob, I think you've already figured this out. We're literally going to spin a wheel and I'll ask you questions based on whatever comes up. I have no idea what I'll actually be asking you about or in what order. Some of it's legal specific, some of it's non-legal specifics. So are you ready to go? Rob Hartigan (00:40:59): Yeah, let's do it. Jared Correia (00:41:00): Evan. Please give that wheel of spin. Evan is the producer. Evan Dicharry is the Vanna White of Legal Late Night. Rob, your first category. Eat a Peach. I'm sure you're familiar with the Almond Brothers album. Rob Hartigan (00:41:20): Yes. I know the Almond Brothers. I can't think back to all the tracks on that album, but I know it's a famous album. Jared Correia (00:41:27): Great album. It's got the truck with the peach on the front of it. I have the record in my basement, actually. But here's the question. What's your favorite part of living in Georgia now that you are a Georgia resident? Rob Hartigan (00:41:43): Ah, favorite part. I'd say the weather's very good. I'll take that. Whats temperature Jared Correia (00:41:50): Today? Rob Hartigan (00:41:51): Ah, geez, what is it today? Well, it's 52 today, but usually it's hovers around 60. 65. 60's Jared Correia (00:42:00): Good? Rob Hartigan (00:42:00): Yeah. Jared Correia (00:42:01): That's a good deal. So nice Rob Hartigan (00:42:03): Weather. Yeah, I was in Boston yesterday. Cheaper. It was not great. Yeah, cheaper. Easier to move around. Really? People around here complain about traffic. And I've been stuck on some bad traffic here, but I tell everybody, it's not Boston traffic. What do you mean? I say, well, take whatever your- The same Jared Correia (00:42:25): Shit. Rob Hartigan (00:42:26): Yeah. I say, take whatever your worst experience is. And it's just from 6:00 AM to midnight, it's bad traffic, but you're stuck in a tunnel that's underwater. Yeah. Jared Correia (00:42:39): Yes. Rob Hartigan (00:42:40): Right. This is true. I know it sounds crazy. Yeah. So that's bad traffic. Yeah, it's really great. I mean, the people around here are fantastic. My colleagues in Atlanta are really incredible. They really welcomed me here. So yeah, I live in downtown Decatur, which is a great spot. Very popular, a lot of good food, shops, all that. I mean, Boston will always be home, but yeah, we ended up in a good spot. Jared Correia (00:43:15): You're existing well though. Rob Hartigan (00:43:17): Yes. Jared Correia (00:43:18): Pretty good. We're off to a good start. You got an easy one. Rob Hartigan (00:43:21): Yeah. Jared Correia (00:43:21): Let's see what comes up next. Evan, hit me. The wheel spins. What will the wheel come up with? Searching is the category searching. All right. No squirreling out of this. Rob Hartigan (00:43:38): Okay. Jared Correia (00:43:39): What is your favorite legal research product? Rob Hartigan (00:43:45): Westlaw. Jared Correia (00:43:47): Really? Oh wow, that was quick. You didn't even hesitate. Why? What do you like about Westlaw versus Lexus? Rob Hartigan (00:43:55): I've used Westlaw my entire career, so I just know how to navigate it. And they've recently rolled out some AI features that are really fantastic. So that's cut down on the research time. Jared Correia (00:44:11): Oh, good. Rob Hartigan (00:44:13): So Jared Correia (00:44:13): You've been using their new AI stuff recently and it's working out for you. Rob Hartigan (00:44:17): Yeah. So there's a couple of different AI products that Westlaw has. The one is you can basically plug in ... If you get served with the motion, you can plug in your opponent's memo into Westlaw. Jared Correia (00:44:34): Right. The brief analysis tool. Rob Hartigan (00:44:36): Yeah, brief analysis. And it'll tell you, "Hey, this is bad case law that they cited," or, "This is how you attack this. " Then there's also the co-counsel product, which you can use to, again, type in whatever question you have. You can use it on a specific case and it'll tell you, "Okay, well, you need to look at this case, this case, this other resource." It just helps by saving a lot of time. Jared Correia (00:45:07): Yeah, like having an associate attorney on call. That's cool. All right. So you like it so far. All right, great. So we got two legal questions so far. You never know what the wheel's going to come up with. Let's spin it again. So now we have, next up, reigning cats and dogs, raining cats and dogs. This I think is a controversial question because I know there are cat people out there and I know there are dog people out there. Which animal is better? Cat or dog? Rob Hartigan (00:45:42): Cat. Jared Correia (00:45:43): Cat. Wow. Rob, you're bringing the heat today. Not even a flinch. Yeah. Why are she cats better? I think cats are, from what I hear, I'm allergic to basically every animal, but I hear that cats are dicks. Rob Hartigan (00:45:58): No. Well, it depends on who the cat is, I guess. So yeah, I have a cat, Tiger Lily, she is- Jared Correia (00:46:12): Good Rob Hartigan (00:46:12): Neighbor. Yep. Eight years old at this point. Jared Correia (00:46:16): Rob, may I stop you for a second? Rob Hartigan (00:46:17): Yes. Jared Correia (00:46:18): This is something I don't know. I'm animal curious today. Are there cat years like there are dog years? What is an eight year old cat equivalent to as a human? Rob Hartigan (00:46:27): I think my cat is probably in her 40s or 50s maybe at this point. I Jared Correia (00:46:32): Already like her. Keep going. Rob Hartigan (00:46:34): Yeah. But still very mobile and great personality, all that. So with cats, here's the thing. You don't need to take them outside to go to the bathroom. Jared Correia (00:46:44): Oh, that's good. I like that. They're Rob Hartigan (00:46:45): Very clean animals. They do have fun personalities, again, depending on which one you end up with. Again, they will ... I mean, if you have any issues ... I mean, we lived in an apartment outside of Boston, and this is six years ago, and there was a mouse in our apartment and our cat ended up catching the mouse. And so that was a little fun episode. Jared Correia (00:47:13): That's great. Good reason to have them around. Rob Hartigan (00:47:16): Yeah. You don't need to board them if you go anywhere, right? Jared Correia (00:47:23): Oh, that's a plus. Yeah. Rob Hartigan (00:47:25): Huh. So we do love- Jared Correia (00:47:27): I like the pro and con list you're developing here. This is great. Rob Hartigan (00:47:29): Yeah. So we do have somebody come by and take care of her when we're gone and check in. Yeah. I mean, I know with dog owners, it's so much involved if you want to go away and either boredom or ... Yes. And again, I got to take them on walks and don't have to take my cat on walks. There was some article that came out saying that cats are almost genetically perfect or something like that. Oh Jared Correia (00:48:07): My God. Wow. You were really in the cat, in the catfolds here. I had no Rob Hartigan (00:48:11): Idea. Well, weren't they considered royalty by the Egyptians or Jared Correia (00:48:15): Something? Oh Rob Hartigan (00:48:16): Yeah, that is true. That's Jared Correia (00:48:17): Absolutely true. Rob Hartigan (00:48:18): There's a lot there. But dogs are a lot of work. I mean, I love dogs, but they're a lot of work. Jared Correia (00:48:26): I never thought of the walking part of it. So I have a lady in my ... I think I mentioned this on a show before. There's a lady in my neighborhood who has chickens and she watched the chickens. She has a chicken leash. It still freaks me out. Rob Hartigan (00:48:35): Oh, geez. Okay. Jared Correia (00:48:36): Yeah. Rob Hartigan (00:48:37): And I've very- Jared Correia (00:48:38): If you're listening, you're a lady in my neighborhood, fucking cut it out or change your route. Rob Hartigan (00:48:44): I would tell you, I've never had a cat bite case. I've had plenty of talk about cases about Jared Correia (00:48:49): The cattle cases. Oh, damn, Rob, this is great. I'm glad I asked you this. All right. I think we should stop. You've waxed effusively about cats long enough. Let's spin the wheel. Let's see what we got next. Will it be a legal question? Will it be a generic question? I don't know. Let's find out. We still got some good ones on the list here. So coming up next is ... Oh, this is a good one. Mad money. You're going to like this one, Rob. Rob Hartigan (00:49:14): We're not going to talk about your crammer are wet from CNBC. Jared Correia (00:49:19): We're not. What I am going to ask you though is what is your biggest settlement as a PI attorney? Rob Hartigan (00:49:25): Oh, biggest settlement? To date, six million. Jared Correia (00:49:29): Dang. It's pretty good. Rob Hartigan (00:49:32): Yeah. From Massachusetts. Yeah. Thank you. From Massachusetts, that's pretty solid. In Georgia, the settlements are a lot bigger typically. But in Massey, it's pretty significant. Jared Correia (00:49:47): Well, that's an interesting point you bring up because I don't know if people are ... If you're a non PI attorney, you may not be aware that different jurisdictions are better for PI than others, right? Rob Hartigan (00:49:57): Yeah. Right. So there are some markets out there that are just typically better. And I think it's a culture thing too. So Georgia's a pretty good state for personal injury, California. I think Texas can be good too. Chicago, so Illinois. And then you have other states which are not so good because they have caps and non-economic damages. Yeah, you really got to do your research. Massachusetts is pretty decent, but yeah. Jared Correia (00:50:42): I think somebody's going to rank the states for effectiveness for PI attorneys. If Rob Hartigan (00:50:47): You're out there Jared Correia (00:50:47): Listening, do that and I'll interview you. Rob Hartigan (00:50:50): Yeah. I'm sure there's a list out there that somebody's already put together. Jared Correia (00:50:55): Let's spin it again. $6 million settlement, not bad at all. And only 18 months into the firm. Even better. Rob Hartigan (00:51:03): Yeah. That was a case I had with my old firm. It was referred to me and I was lead counsel on it. But yeah, it was a great result with the family. So proud of that one. All Jared Correia (00:51:15): Right. We're getting a lot of legal specific questions coming up. Maybe we'll do a couple more after this. Yeah. Not refer madness, referral madness. What's your craziest referral story? Rob Hartigan (00:51:29): Oh, man. It sounds like there might be a lot to choose from. So because where do you want to go with this? The craziest case- You Jared Correia (00:51:39): Can take it wherever you want. We're in the wheel of justice segment. The craziest case I've ever- Rob Hartigan (00:51:44): Craziest case, craziest referral source, do your thing. Oh, man. I've had some ... And this goes back to networking group stuff, right? Yep. I've had some bad referrals that ... I mean, I ended up turning them down, but this is part of my problem with networking groups because it's basically they're just trying to check a box and they'll send you anything that comes their Jared Correia (00:52:09): Way. Yeah. Now this is turning into what grinds my gears, so please continue on this path. Rob Hartigan (00:52:15): Yeah. So this was somebody else in a networking group with, and they call me up and like, "Hey, I know somebody who's in an accident." I said, "Okay, well, what happened?" "Well, they drove into a tree. "I said," Okay. Well, unless the tree has an insurance policy, which I know it obviously doesn't, what do we do here? Because there's no ... Was he going to sue himself? "Right? Yeah. So that to me was a common sense. Why would you call me about that? Jared Correia (00:52:48): Right, right. Rob Hartigan (00:52:52): Yeah. I'll never forget that one. Jared Correia (00:52:56): Can I tell you, I actually have a story about this. May I share? Rob Hartigan (00:52:59): Oh, sure. Yeah, please do. So Jared Correia (00:53:03): I practiced law for a little bit back in the day, and we had this criminal law case one time, and this guy, I was in New Bedford at the time, which is a little bit dicey, part of Massachusetts, and this guy rammed his car into a tree on Christmas Eve and he was blown out on Coke out of his mind. And the cops come in and they're like, " Dude, you just hit a tree at 30 miles an hour. You're lucky to be alive. "And he's like, " Ah, yeah, it was crazy. He was like, I was eating a jelly donut, a powdered jelly donut, and it smashed my face when I hit the tree. "And that was his excuse. And they let him walk, they let him leave. Rob Hartigan (00:53:47): Wow. How did I do it? Yeah, that was pretty good. I know I've got other stories. I just had to- Jared Correia (00:53:56): Let's move on. We'll do the next one. I want to do some non-legal stuff, so I'm hoping it comes up. Evan, we'll spin the reel again here. Maybe we'll do two more. I'm enjoying myself. I got some non-legal stuff on here, but it's the wheel. The wheel decides shredding. Oh, spreading. I don't even remember it. Oh yeah. Okay. So you're going to like this one too. What is the hardest song to play on a guitar? Rob Hartigan (00:54:21): Oh my God. Oh man, that's a really difficult question. So hardest song for me, there's a couple. Okay. Jared Correia (00:54:38): Yeah, you can give me two. That's fine. Rob Hartigan (00:54:40): Yeah, I'll give you two. Jared Correia (00:54:41): We'll allow some leeway. Rob Hartigan (00:54:42): So one is, well, it's kind of two songs for this, but so Brad Paisley, I'm a big fan of- Jared Correia (00:54:52): I love Brad Paisley. That's my guy. Rob Hartigan (00:54:54): Yeah, one of the best guitar players out there. So he's got two songs. It's the ... I forget which album is now, but I think it's American Saturday Night and one- Jared Correia (00:55:07): On the American Saturday Night album. Rob Hartigan (00:55:09): Yes. Yes. Jared Correia (00:55:11): What is Water on? Rob Hartigan (00:55:12): That's that same album. Yeah. Jared Correia (00:55:14): It is? Okay, good. That's a great song, by the way. If you don't know that song, it wasn't a hit. You should listen to that song.That's a fucking great Rob Hartigan (00:55:21): Song. Yeah. It was a single, but it wasn't a huge hit. Jared Correia (00:55:23): Yeah. Rob Hartigan (00:55:24): Oh, it was? I didn't realize that. (00:55:25): Yeah. So both of those songs are just technically very challenging because he's such a good guitar. He's a very clean guitar player. So he's hitting all those notes and I compare him with somebody who I also loved when I was playing guitar more consistently and learning how to play guitar. So Jimmy Page, he was fantastic legend guitar player. He's all right. Yeah, he's all right. This is like '70s rock and roll. Technically, I mean, he could be a little slobby with some of his notes. And so where you take Brian Paisley, somebody who was just clean playing. And both are fantastic, but they have their own styles. That's a very challenging song. And then John Mayer, so the song Neon- Jared Correia (00:56:25): Wait, which Led Zeppelin song is it? This challenging? Rob Hartigan (00:56:28): Oh, no, just in general. His playing. Jared Correia (00:56:30): Oh, Zeppelin. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. John Mayer. I hate John Mayer. I don't know why. I mean, I know he's a gifted guitarist. I just can't get into his shit. Plus he did Tara Swift Dirty back in the day. Rob Hartigan (00:56:45): Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not going to judge him for his personal stuff. Jared Correia (00:56:52): Neon, you said? I've never heard that song before. Rob Hartigan (00:56:54): Yeah. And just some of the guitar parts are very challenging, but he's an incredible guitar player, one of my favorites. Jared Correia (00:57:04): This is great. We got three for the price of one. Evan, let's roll out the wheel. Let's do one more. We'll do one more. Our last spin. Will it be legal? Will it be non-legal? I got something that we're going to have to save till next time, including boner jams, which is really unfortunate. All right. Next. That's lit. All right. So I'm a connoisseur of graphic mugs. I have a graphic mug that's a cactus with Christmas lights on it and it's like Christmas is going to be lit this year, but that's not the question. The question is, what is the most kick-ass thing you've ever done that's related to law firm litigation? Rob Hartigan (00:57:48): Oh my God. Most kick-ass thing I've ever done. Jared Correia (00:57:53): Probably out of many to choose. Rob Hartigan (00:57:56): I wish. Jared Correia (00:57:58): Every day. Rob Hartigan (00:58:00): Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's so hard. I don't know if there's anything that's so ... Hey, this is incredible that I've done. All Jared Correia (00:58:14): Right. Fucking spin it again. Spin it again. Rob, every day is great for Rob. We'll do one more. We'll do one more. Rob Hartigan (00:58:22): I wish I had a great trial story, but I don't have those yet. Jared Correia (00:58:25): You'll get there. Speed bump. Speed bump is our next segment. This is a good one to end on. What is your best or most interesting celebrity encounter? Rob Hartigan (00:58:39): Wow. Who have I met as a celebrity? Jared Correia (00:58:45): Or Near Miss. Near Miss. You just tell me the story that you think is best. Rob Hartigan (00:58:52): Yeah. Jared Correia (00:58:53): I know you run in some high-end circles, Rob. Rob Hartigan (00:58:56): Yeah, I wish. I will tell you a couple of just different stories and then nothing crazy. Oh, here's one. 2002, right? Patriots won the Super Bowl. Yes. Glorious times. I was 17 years old. I was in high school and I think I took the day off and left in half day or whatever, went to Boston. And at the time they had it in government center right near City Hall. So everybody gets together and nobody knew what Tom Brady was going to be back then. And so everybody's just happy because they won a Super Bowl. Jared Correia (00:59:40): Yeah. So for those that not versed, the Patriots sucked for a really long time. Rob Hartigan (00:59:46): Yeah. Yeah. So I know we had the opportunity to get up really close up to the stage and that didn't end up working out For some reasons. So I was maybe close to, I don't know, seeing Tom Brady up in person or whatever. Oh, I did. All right, here's a good one. I ran into Robert Kraft in the Seaport two years ago. Jared Correia (01:00:14): KK. Rob Hartigan (01:00:15): Yes. So this is a good story. So I'm with my wife and we're walking in Seaport. We're going to get brunch. Jared Correia (01:00:24): Rob, you weren't in a massage parlor, were you? Rob Hartigan (01:00:26): No, I wasn't. Sorry, Jared Correia (01:00:27): I had to. Rob Hartigan (01:00:29): Yeah. Well, it'd been weird if I had my wife with me and doing that. Couples massage. We were there for brunch, I promise. And so it's wintertime and this is within the last two years. So walking down the street and I look and my wife's turning in my direction, talking to me. And I stop because it's like the surreal moment. I'm like, there's Robert Kraft. It's fucking him. And he's walking with somebody. And my wife almost walks in. So I'm telling her, Hey, she walks past him and I'm like, "Hey, that's Robert." She's like, "What?" And I'm like, "It's fucking Robert Kraft." And she looks and then I just see people in the restaurant that we walk by stop and they're looking and saying, "Oh, that's Robert Kraft." And he was such a nice guy. I said, "Hey, don't bother." Jared Correia (01:01:33): Oh, did you end up talking to him or no? Rob Hartigan (01:01:35): No, no. We stopped. He talked to a couple of people and they say, "Oh, thank you. Thank you. " And he was very nice. That's cool. Just some really great guy. But yeah, I don't like to bother. If I submit anybody out in public, I wouldn't want to bother them. All Jared Correia (01:01:48): Right. We'll end on this now. Patriots versus Houston Texans, divisional round this weekend. Give us your score prediction. And if you're wrong, you'll be humiliated forever. Rob Hartigan (01:02:01): Oh, geez. Man, that's tough. I want to say 2013 Patriots. Jared Correia (01:02:15): Okay. I think that's a good score. I'll say 2317 Patriots. Rob Hartigan (01:02:20): Rob, Jared Correia (01:02:21): Thank you. You're amazing today. I appreciate Rob Hartigan (01:02:23): It. Come back anytime. No, thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. Love to. Jared Correia (01:02:27): Thanks for our guest, Rob Hartigan of the One True Lionhart Injury Law. To learn more about Rob and Lionhart, visit lionhartlaw.com. That's lionhartlaw.com. Heart without the E, L-I-O-N-H-A-R-T-L-A-W.com, lionhartlaw.com now, because I'll always be a '90s kid who just broke his femur trying to use his old Skipit, but whose true passion is burning CDs for anyone who would listen. I'm now just doing the modern version of that, which is creating Spotify playlists for every podcast episode that I record where the songs are tangentially related to an episode topic. This week's playlist is round as fuck. In honor of the Wheel of Justice, we have The Wheels Playlist. This is all sponsored by Bojangles Bowberry Biscuits, yum. Actually, it's not sponsored at all, which is my personal shame. I'll work on that. But goddamn, I would love some Bojangles right about now. Join us next time when I read the entire list of the 11 herbs and spices in Kentucky Fried Chicken because fuck the kernel.