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Is PR the Same as Marketing? Here's the Real Difference · Imperfect Marketing

• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Kendrick Corman.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a coach, consultant, or marketer, you know marketing is far from a perfect science.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why this show is called Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Join me and my guests as we explore how to grow your business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned along the way.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kendra Corman, and I am really excited today to be joined by Lauren, and we're going to be talking about one of my pet peeves, and that is that marketing is not PR.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: PR is labeled under a marketing umbrella.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: They are not the same thing.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm super excited to be talking about that today.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining me.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kendra.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying not to just, you know, immediately laugh during the intro.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is all good because it makes me laugh too.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get into the industry?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: What brought you here today?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those everything makes sense when you look back at your life.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's it's one of those, it was storytelling all along.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as a kid, I was going to the library and checking out the maximum number of books that they would let little Lauren take from the library and then would read them and then bring them back, and then the process would turn over to the point of my childhood pediatrician was even like, you should go outside sometime, also.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like just certified bookworm from day one.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then in college, I went to a small liberal arts school.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And even though I got a nice practical business degree, I had to have an emphasis in English literature too.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Just the stories wouldn't let me go.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then as a very naive, sweet 22-year-old, I stumble out into the world and practically fall in the door of a PR firm.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Really didn't know what it was when I started.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: But then I was watching business, which I really enjoyed.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've, you know, entrepreneurial-minded parents and uh and business parents and then stories, which I sure like, coming together.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, oh my gosh, this is what I was made for.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was 23 years ago.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: I started as an intern at that firm and then left 10 years later as the vice president.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like a duck finding water for the first time.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, so along along the path, there was an in-house jaunt for about five years, and then I started my own firm eight years ago, and it's been it's been a true gift.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, it's it was storytelling all along.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love I book rhyme 100% myself, still am.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love my Kindle because I just have thousands and thousands of books at my fingertips all the time.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, my doctor told me I needed more vitamin D.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't like the outside.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I still like my Kindle and my couch.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we're good.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, no, that's amazing.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, all right.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you found a home in the PR part.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I definitely did not.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: PR is not my thing.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I do not like it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can tell you all the reasons why I don't.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you found I like things that are guaranteed that I can control and I can't control PR.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So PR is not marketing, marketing is not PR.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: What is the difference?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're friends.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I do like it when they're friends and when they work together.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how I was raised up in the in the business world and the PR world was that PR is a function of leadership and management.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and it is your reputation.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas marketing is a function of sales, then you should have an ROI.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have an ROI in marketing, it's not going how it's supposed to.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can't get clear data, then you know it's it's not working.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas in PR, it is, it can be very squishy, although, you know, foreshadowing for the other, I'm sure for the future of our conversation, AI is changing that a bit.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's PR is a rising tide that lifts boats.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is is warming the water that you're swimming in to make it easier for you to do business.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's your reputation preceding you before you walk into a room to sit down and have a sales conversation or recruit a new employee.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's casting your vision out into the world.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are there are elements of PR that does that do need to be a close bed fellow with marketing.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're doing a launch, there are going to be PR activities that are very closely tied with your marketing activities.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be a news release for this new pair of shoes you're launching that needs to tie to the ad campaign and your keywords and everything.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also we do a lot of things in PR that are not one-to-one with marketing, such as executive announcements, thought leadership, crisis communications, internal communications.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's a lot that is really strengthening your business and making sure that those inside and outside of the building know and understand who you are and build your authority along the way.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love I love that definition because there's so much to it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I said, I think I said I don't like PR.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't like doing PR.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: I do like PR.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I should, I should correct that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: I do like the outcomes because it does make marketing stronger, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's not a direct response action normally, right?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I know I work with a lot of nonprofits, and every now and again they'll be like, well, let's let's increase attendance at the event by doing a press release.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that no, no, like we need your board calling people and telling them to come to the event, not sending out a press release.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we can send out a press release, right?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um I call them marketing releases because they're not super newsworthy.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a question I have for you is because I feel like one of the things that I say as a broken record is you know, nobody else cares.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I feel bad because I care about what my client cares about and they care what they care about, but the news does not.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so talk to me about newsworthiness and like how does that play into PR or with, you know, is that not as important with stories or how does this all work?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love the who cares part because that that is a fantastic uh threshold of does anyone but you and your mother care about this?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, like how how what is it like, you know, so I've I've been approached by people over the years of we're having a sale, can we do a news release?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and my response is no, because nobody cares.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's that that serves yourself and no one else.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Are you now, okay, are you donating half of your proceeds to a local nonprofit?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: All right, now someone cares.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's let's build upon this.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yes, we do want to think about um I well, PR is a lot like playing 40 chess, you know, because it's it's you are trying to influence a reporter or producer or journalist, and but you're also trying to reach who they reach.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's you're trying to figure out, okay, what does this first layer care about?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: How are how am I gonna help them be successful in their work?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because they care about clicks and links and all of that.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then how so that I can then tell them this is a great story so that they then share it with their audience.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: But what do that, what does that audience care about?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's your you have all these filters you're thinking about in order to land in the first place and then have the the the conduit, the person you're pitching to tell your story as faithfully as possible so that you're then having the impact that you want to have.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, so yes, uh, who cares is a great first question.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my favorites.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, so who else cares?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like other than us?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things that I found that a lot, a lot of companies love is their anniversary.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: We've been in business for 10 years, 20 years, 25 years, 50 years.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, and we're celebrating the 250th in the United States.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I haven't seen much on that, right?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And although I'm seeing more now, but anniversaries just they're not usually newsworthy.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's nothing of significance.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: How can a company like change that to make their 10th anniversary or 50th anniversary or 150th anniversary um make have other people care?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's what can we layer in to provide the significance?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I one of my actually two of my top clients, we've had recent milestones with them, um, multi-decades of business.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and the first one came to me for their 75th a few years back.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we they hadn't really done that type of PR before.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: They'd done some announcements, you know, MA, things like that.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they're like, we really want to have it use this as a lever to tell our story in a way it's never been told before.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were adding in a lot of, you know, community impact.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was asking, okay, you guys do a lot of volunteering, for instance.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: How many hours does this start adding up to?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: What your you give back?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: How many millions of dollars does this look like?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is what is the wraparound for your place in our city's legacy?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like how do you really start to connect all the dots?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just you showed up 365 days a year, 10 years in a row.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was what did that look like?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: How many lives have you changed it through either in your building or without?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And once you start to think that about that, and so the thing behind the thing, you keep going, you keep going, you keep digging in.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now you really do have something to tell.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can add some events or something, this is where we work with marketing.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is there an event we can have?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is you know, what's the give back component or something?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you really look at that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, or can you tie it to another business milestone?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are you spinning something up, like uh like a new product or service launch?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you can connect all those together, you will get some nice PR uh out of it.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I like, and the events is definitely something that I usually get my nonprofits to do because it's like, hey, you got to connect with people and it's and it can make everything a lot better.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's fantastic insight.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the the reason I don't like PR is because it's time consuming, no guarantee for return or coverage, right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to build a ton of relationships.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And with most of my clients not having a ton of stuff that's newsworthy, I don't have a regular flow of information to build those relationships, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest with you, is like, well, one of my friends who has a has a PR agency, like, she regularly cancels meetings with me and her client because she's got to go to the news station and she's got to go over here.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this came up and okay, crisis communication over here.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I like my predictable schedule that doesn't have me changing where I'm headed at five o'clock in the morning.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, and so those are all the reasons that I don't do PR.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone's to do PR on their own, how do they start to manage that?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: First things first is really nailing your story and and why does anyone care about it?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, really thinking about your specific perspective and narrative voice and what you're bringing to the table that's different from others.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you think about three unique things about you, you know, the first one you might have in common with your competition.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: The second one should, you should start to separate from the pack a fair amount.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: But by the time we get to the third, you should be standing wholly unique from others.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, once you get that that information about you really settled, start to think about, okay, well, who am I trying to reach now?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know the business community?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Am I a nonprofit?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what what are you trying to impact?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And working backward from there, what are the avenues to get to them?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it your local business journal?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it podcasting?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a place that you can provide a column?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like like for instance, your local business journal is a great place to uh pitch a column.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you can do on a quarterly basis?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's just four times a year.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, uh, can you show up to podcasts a couple times a quarter?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, figure out how much time that you have available to dedicate yourself to telling this story and what you can offer folks.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you don't have to tell people how to do everything that you do, but you know, show them, show them what it is and and why they might need you, but you know, without it being a sales pitch.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and then commit to that and then you know, do your marketing activities too, like like blog content and all that, because we um now with AI search, people using their bots to find, you know, having these really intimate conversations with their favorite AI to be like, I'm looking for this type of service provider, X, Y, and Z.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: The AIs are surfacing earned media, recent earned media, much more quickly than they will uh blog content or or certainly old blog content.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, and you we just want to be consistent.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever you can commit to consistently is what we want to do.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Don't, you know, don't decide that, oh, I'm gonna do something every single week unless you know you really do have that kind of time.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Start conservatively and you can add on later, certainly.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but anyway, figuring out who, where, when, what, why, uh, and do that with yourself and what's the message and who will care.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you can start to build it out that way if you're doing it yourself.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: But but podcasting and articles, um, columns are a great way to dip your toe in with sharing your expertise with your market.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I love podcasting and I love guests on my show because they do, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a sales pitch, it's about adding value in a way that, you know, doesn't give away everything that you do, right?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're not telling them how to form a list and start the relationships and all the other pieces that go with it, right?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Start with what you know and then build from there.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when you become ridiculously successful, then you can outsource the PR piece.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so one of the pieces that you mentioned that I I definitely want to just emphasize for everybody listening and watching is what can you commit to consistently?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then whatever that number is, I want you to like sit with it for a week.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're like me and you are an overcommitter, over-deliverer, over everything, you're gonna get tired of whatever that was that you thought you had time for real quick.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so this podcast started off.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think I started off weekly and I didn't have all the right tools in place.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a lot to do.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Then um, then I went, then I went up to two times a week because once a week just wasn't enough.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and now I'm back down to weekly again um because the schedule got a little full.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so finally I'm actually trending ahead on my on my batching and stuff.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, there were there were weeks when I was weekly that I didn't have guests lined up that I was tired of this thing and was gonna let it go.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're on episode 360 something or something, by the way, right now.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's sit with whatever that frequency is that you think you might be able to do for a little bit.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because again, you might think that it's a lot easier to do.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then you fall behind on that consistency piece.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever anybody's starting a podcast, I'm like, let's start every other week, then we can go up to weekly.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Once we have enough back behind us, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that that's really important um to test and to share.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had a client that came to me and they wanted to do weekly, all like from the get-go.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, I I personally know you.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is not gonna happen.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew it was gonna, and they were struggling to stay content.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they were struggling to stay on top of every other week, right?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And because it is a lot of work.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so, even writing a blog, even if you're leveraging AI to an extent, it's still a lot of work.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of thought, it's a lot of storytelling, it's a lot of a lot.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you pointed that out.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that everybody needs to think about what that frequency is and then sit with it.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so we've become ridiculously successful now.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thanks to our articles and our regular blogs and our podcast appearances.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: When or how do you know it's the right time to outsource to someone like you?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, usually when you have more dollars than time is is the short answer.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and also you if you start to do this, you you may have an incredible knack for it, in which case, great.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: But but at some point, yes, your success is going to outpace your capacity because there's just going to be other things that only you can and should be doing.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Even for myself, I I don't pitch myself to things be because uh it takes time and attention and follow-up.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I um, as you're talking about consistency, I am a certified, not repetitive task girly.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm a I'm a visionary.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do like the idea for the thing, and then and I'll show you how to do it once or twice, and then I cannot do it again.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so if you are the business leader and and founder, you are likely you likely suffer from some similar um afflictions.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And having someone be able to gently keep their foot on the gas for you all the time with a strategic look at what you're trying to accomplish and to be a thought leader with you too.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, it's it's hard to read the label from inside the bottle.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So have someone be thinking with you, like, what's really resonating with the audience?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: How is technology changing?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's gonna work with um with this new initiative?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And to have someone be thinking about that with you and then taking that message, really creating something crisp and clear and compelling, and then going out and finding the right channels for you, it is gonna be a huge give back to you for your time.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you'll you'll you it will pay for itself just because it it is so much effort, especially now.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like the more and more fractured our media landscape gets, the harder it is to do it yourself.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's you know, 50 years ago there was what one newspaper and one TV station.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, now it's it's almost infinite and it is mind-boggling.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um, as soon as you can, is what my recommendation, just so you can get back to making money.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it just sending out a press release?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I wish.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of people do have that um misunderstanding that it's just sending out a press release.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but sending out a press release is not going to get you coverage because it's not appealing to all of those people that you said before, right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not understanding that 40 chess.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it so it's beyond that.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so the amount of time I still remember this is like a long time ago now.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we won't say how long, but I was I was hiring someone to do PR for a firm, a new brand launch for one of my clients.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Okay, it's one press release.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, that'll be four thousand dollars.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we gave the company the quote and things like that.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, she's just writing a press release.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's re-look at this scope of work.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: She's writing the press release.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's um, she was pitching it, and she had like a list of the some, like some samples of who she was pitching it to.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then she was going to do prep interview for them and do some media training.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then she was gonna be on all of the calls for the interviews that she landed.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's worth a lot more than$4,000, even you know, way back when.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like this sheer amount of time she thought one press release was gonna cost her over 40 hours of work, and it did.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it is, it's real.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess my question to you on that is how do founders, business owners, right, who have been getting along and becoming successful without a ton of PR, how do you help them understand that this takes time and that there's an investment and it's not guaranteed?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: When people get to a business maturations point where they know it's time for PR, they've they've been doing marketing, the sales are coming, they're ready for a bigger impact, a stronger and steadier reputation, and you know, they're ready for sales cycles to shorten and ready for people to understand them and so forth.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um they generally are coming to the table with pretty reasonable expectations.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting is that it is really a virtuous cycle.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: The more you do, the easier and better it gets.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of times we might get a quick win within the first quarter where, you know, we send out a, you know, we create a strategy and some content and curate a media list, and we're sending, you know, establishing relationships for this client and then nurturing them.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we're really good storytellers and great fun people.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So they're, you know, they hook on, like, okay, yeah, but over time you got to keep going, you got to keep that foot on the gas.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look up a few years later, and now they're coming to you because they won't they're, you know, they they understand you and your body of work, and they want they're writing a story about your expertise, and they can't do it without your voice.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I want I need Kendra for my article, or I need Kendra on my show because I I've been hearing from you for years and I need, I need you, I need your voice for this piece.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and that's what we're looking for.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's yeah, you can get some some quick wins and and that's always fun.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the ones who can invest quarter over quarter, year over year, are the ones who are really gonna reap the benefits.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so so as far as managing expectations, we do ask people up front, you know, what does success look like to you?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're just, you know, if it's more one-to-one ROI and I need, I need this and that and the other, I will tell them that it's just not the PR isn't a fit.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: They need to look more at marketing.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: But if they have a longer range view and it is something that is supporting their marketing efforts, then they're usually pretty realistic.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for this.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you for for all of your tips and informations and insights.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you define the difference between marketing and PR because yes, we are friends.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're not the same.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that that's really important to note.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: So um, before I let you go though, I have to ask you the question that I ask all of my guests.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that this show is called Imperfect Marketing, because marketing is anything but a perfect science.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: What has been your biggest marketing lesson learned along the way?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've been telling everyone for years, you can't be everything to everyone.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you are, you're nothing to no one.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it took me a long time to really come up with a niche for myself.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just it is meandered.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: It, I just again, I'm naturally curious.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love stories.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it was, and I was getting referrals, so it didn't really matter.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: There was no lane I felt I needed to occupy.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then as the world shifted, particularly last year, I mean, we were kind of drifting toward a niche over time, but last year I finally decided to treat myself like a client and and sat down.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, who do I love to serve?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Who what are we really great at?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: We realized first and foremost, like as a big bucket, B2B was our was our real lane.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got a trade journal or something like that, like that is that is our story.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: If it, if it's we like one of the things we say is we're we find the fascinating and the familiar.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's a little drier, or if if like you're a great investment to Warren Buffett, like you're our company, really.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like maybe it's manufacturing or industrial or things like that.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: We we love that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: We love to just crack you open and find the beating heart of your business and and use that as the authentic story.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, so learn learning that that was really our true gift uh was very helpful.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's made life so much easier.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's so much easier to cast a vision and to recruit talent or recruit clients when you say, you know, we specialize in X and to have a real mission behind that is you you will make your life so much easier if you can commit to a lane.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love that that insight.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, right, riches are in the niches, but commit to a lane.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't always feel urgent, right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And in the beginning, you need a bunch of different business and you don't necessarily know what you like a hundred percent.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so it takes time to to find that.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: But the one insight that I really love that you shared is treat yourself like a client.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: We don't do that.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Never children.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like it's it's so important um to find time to make sure that you treat yourself like your client.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's something that I definitely don't do enough of.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think most of us are guilty.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, do what I say, know what I do.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Don't look at me way too often.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I feel it's like it's like I'm the wizard behind the curtain.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes it's like, don't look at how the sausage is made over here.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that that's really important.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's if you treat yourself like a client, then you do a lot of things differently, right?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: You focus and and you get you get focused, and it will really help you grow your business a lot faster than if you don't.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that that's a really good insight.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much, Lauren.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you all for tuning in to another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you got something out of today, I know I did.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I would love it if you would rate and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, have a great rest of your day.