Latest / Gay Men Going Deeper / Flakey Gays: Why is Follow-Through So Hard?

Transcript

Flakey Gays: Why is Follow-Through So Hard? · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host, Michael DiIorio, and joining me today is Matt Lansitol. Hey guys, today we're talking about flaky gays. Specifically, we want to talk about why is follow through so hard. So first of all, what am I referring to when I say flaky flakiness? Flakiness is a pattern of behavior of making commitments that you don't follow through on. Okay? It's a pattern of behavior. So we're not talking about genuine one off circumstances. Obviously emergencies come up, life happens. We've all had to cancel something last minute for very legitimate reasons. That's not what we're talking about today. Flakiness is the pattern of behavior, right? So it's not one offs. It's a consistent pattern of behavior not following through. Okay? So you said yes because maybe you really didn't want, when you really didn't want to. So you just these kind of people pleased and ended up making a commitment that you didn't want to follow through on. Or maybe because you don't like disappointing people. Or maybe because something better came up and you said yes, but you don't want to do that anymore. You want to do this thing over here. Or maybe you are flaky because fear takes over in the moment and you just don't want to do it anymore. In my opinion, this low grade chronic unreliable is far too normal for me. Maybe, maybe I'm old. Well, I am kind of old, but I've noticed it a lot more, I'm going to say recently, in the last five years, I guess since I've been, since I've been single so about two years now. I just notice it a lot more. And I'm not sure if this is a product of our society, if this is just a gay thing, if, if it's, you know, I'm not sure where it comes from, but I don't really want to talk too, too much about that. I want to talk about what that, what it means for us as, as an individual and as a culture, as a people. Okay? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not exempt from this. I have been the flaky one at times. And I know when I do it and I have done it and I still do it. Sometimes I'm noticing it. Even today as I was thinking about this, I'm like, oh, you Know what I'm noticing? Me wanting to flake out on some things that I said with guys that I've chatted with. So this is not an attack. Okay. Before you get all your defenses up, I'm not sitting here on my high horse saying that, you know, y' all suck. This is really an introspective conversation. I want us to all think about the thoughts and emotions that lead to us not following through. Okay. Not just in socializing, but in your life in general. Like, where do you not follow through with yourself? Where do you not follow through in your work life? Where do you not follow through with your family and friends? And then just thinking about, like, is that the kind of man you want to be? Okay. Because what I've noticed is that for if you lack follow through in your social plans, it does beg the question, where else in your life does this pattern show up? Because it can be quite insidious if you're making commitments and breaking them with other people. Where are you doing that with yourself? Where are you starting a project and then maybe letting it flounder? Or where do you set goals and then quietly quit as soon as, you know it gets hard or you don't feel like it?
• 3:00
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 3:02
  Speaker A: So there is something deeper happening here, and that's what we're wanting to explore as well. I don't think people are maliciously flaky, willing to give us the benefit of the doubt there. But I do think it's unconscious that we do it. And today we're going to bring that into the light.
• 3:16
  Speaker B: Right.
• 3:16
  Speaker A: Let's get started. Let's. Let's look at it at the cultural view. Let's like, kind of zoom out and then we'll zoom into the self identity view. So do you agree, Matt? Like, have you seen this? That has. Has flakiness become more socially acceptable to you? Do you notice the same thing I have?
• 3:32
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I would say dating is maybe an area that it shows up a lot, is you have a lot of. Well, we did an episode on the Slow Fade. That's. I look at that as flakiness.
• 3:42
  Speaker A: Right.
• 3:42
  Speaker B: And. And ghosting can be flaky, but then there can also be, like, flakiness with communication.
• 3:47
  Speaker A: Right.
• 3:47
  Speaker B: It's like, oh, like last minute. I'm just not. I don't have the energy to come. So you communicate and you're open, but if you keep doing that over and over again, you're going to get a reputation of being flaky. Even if you're a good communicator about why you're not going, right? So I think that the impact of that is going to be like, trust people, therefore they don't see that they can trust you because you're inconsistent and you don't have good follow through. So, yeah, dating, I would say for sure it's a way that it shows up systemically. I think socially it does show up as well. I think gay men are just inherently anxious. I think we, we grow up and we have a lot of hypervigilance programmed into our nervous system and a lot of fear. And that shows up as like fawning. It can show up as flight, like fleeing, right? Which is what we're, I think what we're talking about, like, it's like, like flakiness is like fleeing or, or being too busy or, right? That you're not, you're not going to go towards the thing, you're going to move away from it. So I think social anxiety is just such a big, big, big factor in gay culture. And I think we commit to things when we don't, when we're not feeling anxious and then when it comes to actually having to follow through, we're like, this is too scary. So we flake out, right?
• 4:54
  Speaker A: Like, yeah, totally. And what's the impact on that long term, do you think? Like, if, if we're all kind of doing that or not all, but if a lot of us are doing that, what's the impact?
• 5:02
  Speaker B: Well, if you look at the main fear that most gay men possess is fear of rejection. So what happens when people flake? What's the impact on the other person that they're flaking out on, right? That they feel rejected? There's a high likelihood that rejection is going to be. So what we're doing is we're perpetuating rejection trauma, right, in, in the culture, in the community. Um, whereas you know what? I do think, I don't want to pathologize it, but I think it's really actually healthy to own our flakiness in an authentic way and say, hey, I'm scared, right? Instead of making up all these excuses, be like, I'm actually anxious to go to this event tonight because what if my ex boyfriend is there? What if. Whatever, right? And we have all the reasons. What if you were to tell people that you're flaking out on the, the fear of, of what's going on so they can actually support you and help you through that as opposed to just making up excuses and then being in, almost like in denial of, of why we're Actually not wanting to engage or follow through.
• 6:00
  Speaker A: You know, I love that. And you know what? I'm willing to bet that if you did that the other person would say, oh, I'm kind of feeling anxious too. Thank you for bringing light to that. And then you can have something to bond over. It's like, o in it together. Let's not do something else that doesn't make us feel anxious or go to this thing and do this thing. But at least, hey, we've both named. We both named that anxiety. And now it kind of just takes the load off a little bit, right?
• 6:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think.
• 6:24
  Speaker A: No, no, you finish your thought.
• 6:26
  Speaker B: I was just gonna say I have greater empathy for flakiness now. My whole life, I was the kind of guy that I was so loyal, like, blindly loyal to my word, and I would go to an event even if I really didn't want to. I would push myself through. I would dissociate to get through it. I was just that guy. I never wanted to flake out. And then in the last three years, I've been dealing with chronic fatigue and burnout and depression and all this stuff, and I literally have been the most flaky that I have in my whole life because I don't have capacity. And in one moment, I might actually think, yeah, I can do that. I have. I have capacity. And then when the day comes, I'm, like, so burnt out, I got nothing in the tank. So I've been actually learning that it's okay to disappoint people and that it's okay to.
• 7:08
  Speaker A: Right.
• 7:09
  Speaker B: But what I'm trying to do is just be authentic and honest about what's going on. Most of my friends know I, I'm dealing with chronic fatigue and that my, my capacity is low. So. Yeah, so I, I, I understand it for sure.
• 7:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. But what you just described there, I wouldn't put that under the umbrella of flakiness, because you are owning it, and you're communicating it authentically. And honesty. And it's a true. It's a real boundary. It's not an excuse. There's a big difference. And we'll talk about that in just a sec. I do want to go into that a bit further, but one thing I wanted to mention was, you know, in groups, you run, you run your groups, men's groups, I, I as well. And I don't know if you still do this map, but I, I do it where we have, like, weekly pairings where I match them with someone for you to do the same thing. Okay. Yeah. And in the beginning, everyone's like, e, I don't really want to do that. And they have all this resistance. I could just see in the room when I'm facilitating and we're going to do this and in the, in the, in the interim, you guys are going to. I'm going to pair you up with somebody in the group and you're going to have a meaning. And you could just see like. And by the end of it, I say, what was your favorite part of the group? And they all say the same thing. I love my one on ones. I love meeting the guys outside of the group. And so the reason I do that and probably use well is that if this, these men's groups are about community and building community and building relationships and friendships. You cannot build community and friendships if you're not willing to show up for other people. Even when it, Even when it's not easy, even when it's inconvenient, or even when it's. You have a bit of anxiety. Right. And there is. I'm really happy you mentioned that there is a distinction between I'm gonna let my fear and anxiety win versus I truly don't have the capacity for this. And there's, There's a distinction there. So let's now talk about that. How do you, how would you define
• 8:49
  Speaker B: the difference between what. Again, just help me understand what we're defining the difference between.
• 8:54
  Speaker A: Between being flaky, where you are doing it because, you know, it's an excuse. You're, you're, you're just giving into something like avoidance or fear or, or something versus truly being like, in your example, truly setting a boundary and being at capacity and just literally not being able to show up.
• 9:13
  Speaker B: I think it's just honesty and authenticity. I think, I don't think it's like, who gets to define the legitimacy of somebody's reason for not wanting to follow through. Right. Like, I just think that for me it's chronic fatigue. For some people, it could be social anxiety. For someone could. It could be whatever. Right. And I think we're all on our own path in that sense. So I would just say the best policy is honesty and just, you know, come forward and say, right, I can't do this. I think a lot of people, you know, you think about things that trigger a lot of gay men. I created some content recently around avoidance and avoidant gay men. And oh, my goodness, I approached it from a compassionate lens and like, the amount of comments I got around people being like, just so much hatred Thrown towards avoidant men because they disappoint. They don't follow through their. Their. They. They avoid. Right. And they hur.
• 10:02
  Speaker A: With.
• 10:02
  Speaker B: With that. But I was coming at it through the lens of this is a person who's terrified. Their nervous system is completely dysregulated. They don't know how to be with you in connection in the state that they're. That their nervous system is in. Right. So that's why they avoid. So it's just really interesting. Right. So you look at people with avoidant attachment. That's exactly right. What is happening? They're. They're flaky, not able to follow through. They're very inconsistent. They're emotionally unavailable, these sorts of things. Right. So is that a legitimate reason to be flaky and to be all those things is the fact that their nervous system is. They haven't actually learned how to bring a dysregulated nervous system into connection. They've learned they're the only adaptation that they have to work with dysregulation is to completely shut down and withdraw.
• 10:47
  Speaker A: Right.
• 10:48
  Speaker B: So, yeah, it just makes me think, like, I'm not sure where that line would be, but maybe for me, it would be dishonesty, lying, or if you're flaking out to go to something better. Right. Like that would be flakiness, or, you know, you. You dip out on a date that you've set up for a week because a. A new hot guy came on Grindr and you're going to go with him. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, those are the sorts of things where I would say there's. It's lacking integrity, maybe.
• 11:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, got there.
• 11:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 11:13
  Speaker A: That's exactly how I would define it is. And that's why I said your example earlier was I wouldn't put that under the umbrella of flaky, because in that case, you owned it and you communicated it, and it was very real. I mean, who's to say what's an excuse and what's real? Only you know that in your heart of hearts. I think you know, viewer, listener, you know when you're lying to yourself. Truly, I really do. And Matt or I or anyone else can't tell you when you're lying to yourself. But you know, and I think we all know when we're doing it. So there's that. But I would say that the key difference for me is ownership. And something I hear a lot is, either I'm tired or I'm busy. Now, there are times when you really are tired and you just don't have the capacity to say, to go to the thing you said you were going to go to. And there are times where you say you're tired, but there's actually. You're not. You're. You're selectively tired. Yeah, yeah. You know, you're too tired to go to that thing, but you're not too tired to go to this thing. And so that's when it's an excuse. So the question was, you know, when is it? When is it valid and legitimately real? Like self awareness versus when is it an excuse? And I would say self awareness is, as you said, when it's honest, when it's communicated clearly, if it's tiredness, when you're genuinely overextended. And again, you know. You know, when this is not just selectively and. And again, if it's a pattern, like if you're tired every day all the time, like, and you're always canceling because you're tired, or you're always canceling because you're busy, you know, that's one thing. The excuse is when it shows up to avoid discomfort, the excuse is kind of like a layer on top. So I'm going to say this thing that's not true. Because there's something deeper, either avoidance or fear or. Or, yeah, like you're being flaky because something better came along, or you hope something better comes along. It's kind of like I have this date with you. But you know what?
• 12:50
  Speaker B: I'm gonna.
• 12:51
  Speaker A: I'm gonna test my luck over here and see if that's. If that's better.
• 12:54
  Speaker B: Yeah. Imagine if we lived in a world that was just purely honest. Like, I just think it's. I've. I've tried to live my life that way, and it's actually blown up in my face. So I do think there is a time and a place for being a little bit dishonest. And, you know, I'll share an example. So I had a guy reach out to me, I think it was on Facebook or something like that, and said he followed the podcast. Or. I can't remember exactly. This was a few years back, and he was, like, adamant on hanging out. And I'm thinking, like, right, we do create parasocial relationships from being on this podcast where people feel like they. They know us, which I'm sharing very intimately, very deep. But we. People need to understand that it doesn't go two ways, because I don't know this person. Right. So they have resonance with me, but I don't know them. And so they were wanting to connect. And this is before. I've been going through all this stuff where my boundaries are a lot firmer now, and I don't let people through the cracks that I don't know, and these sorts of things. And so I kind of started engaging with this person just out of kindness, but I didn't feel any resonance. And then he wanted to hang out, and I tried practicing just radical honesty. And I said, listen, like, I don't actually want to hang out with you. I don't feel resonance with you. And he was extremely hurt by this and, like, blocked me. And actually, he said I was a wolf in sheep's clothes. I think what he said just, all right, And I get it. His fear of reject or his rejection wound must have been activated. And I totally understand that. But can we be fully, radically honest with people when, like, when you don't want to hang out with somebody or somebody asks you out, and a lot of times people are like, oh, sorry, I have a boyfriend already, and they don't. What if we were just to say, hey, like, you know, I don't really feel attraction with. To you? Like.
• 14:31
  Speaker A: Right.
• 14:31
  Speaker B: I think a lot of us are walking around and we're afraid to be honest because we're afraid of hurting people or we're afraid of hurting ourselves by people being disappointed in us. Right. So we're doing these. We're being dishonest as a way to protect ourselves and others. But I don't know, I kind of want to live in a world where we're all really honest with each other, but we learn how to deliver rejection or these things with a lot of tact and kindness and. I don't know.
• 14:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, I would love to live in that world. Let me know when you find it.
• 14:58
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the authentic relating world is like that.
• 15:00
  Speaker A: Right.
• 15:01
  Speaker B: And it can be very jarring. Like, I've been in trainings where it's like, people are. You know, this is. It's unfiltered connection, and it can feel like, yeah, you have to be with your pangs. You have to be with the pangs of being feeling rejected or people projecting onto you and just different things like that. So it does help. It can help us expand our nervous system to have capacity for difficult conversation.
• 15:25
  Speaker A: But you brought up a really good point about boundaries. I think that I was a lot more flaky and a lot more. I'd have to, like, find excuses. I'm tired. I'm busy. All the things when I didn't have clear boundaries. And I didn't. Sorry. Maybe if I had them, I didn't honor them or I didn't maintain them. I didn't listen to myself. So now I know for me when something is a. Is a no, and I'll just say no. And they might not like it if it's a friend. And they say, hey, I'm having my birthday and we're gonna go to, like, so and so place. And I know that I hate so and so place, and I've had a terrible time. Every time I've been there, I'm gonna say, listen, happy birthday. I love you. I'm not coming, but I'll take you over for dinner next week.
• 16:01
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:02
  Speaker A: Instead of saying yes because it's their birthday, I'm like, okay. And then this dread coming up that I have to go to this place and this thing, even though I love my friend and it's their birthday. And then wanting to flake out and be like, oh, how can I get about this? Oh, can I. Can I be sick? Or can I say this or can I say that? And then in those days, I would. I would find an excuse, and then I'd feel bad, and then they would be upset. So I would rather just disappoint, quote, unquote them in the beginning and say, listen, I love you, Happy birthday. I'm not coming. And also I will take you out somewhere else.
• 16:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. I want. I want to say something. It came through. But, like, if some. If, especially in dating, if somebody wants to spend time with you, they will make time for you.
• 16:41
  Speaker A: Right?
• 16:42
  Speaker B: This is how it goes. Like, so if somebody is giving you lip service and they're like, oh, I'm so busy, or, you know, like, just take that at face value. If somebody wanted to spend time with you, they would carve out the time in their schedule. We all have 24 hours in a day. That's a lot of hours. And we will make time for the people that we value and want to spend time with. So I'm learning that, like, both in the sense that I have to actually let people know. Like, I. I don't actually don't want to hang out with you. I don't. I'm not getting anything from connecting with you. And then there's the other side where I would want people to. To be honest with me. If you don't want to connect with me, then just be honest.
• 17:20
  Speaker A: Right?
• 17:20
  Speaker B: I don't want to. I don't want to try and get connection from somebody that doesn't want to connect with me. But I also will say this too, that it. It's seasonal. Can be seasonal, because I know for my. For example, for me, like, you know, my best friend and I, we go through, like, these seasons where it, like, we want to connect a lot, and then we don't want to connect. And we want to connect. We don't want to connect. So I do believe nervous systems have resonance at times with certain people, and then it can pull back, come back, pull back, come back. So just because somebody doesn't want to hang out with you now doesn't mean that they don't want to hang out with you forever. Right? So.
• 17:50
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 17:50
  Speaker B: But in the dating world, I would probably say it's more. If they're not interested in you, they're not attracted to you, then it will probably be a forever thing. Like, it's just like, if they're not making time for you and they're not a friend, then, yeah, they probably aren't into you.
• 18:02
  Speaker A: I'm happy you mentioned that, because I. When I'm finding myself on this guy who, like, has made the date and, like, oh, I'm like, as the day gets closer, I can get a little bit nervous or whatever. If I like the guy and I genuinely have to cancel for some reason, I will tell them exactly why I'll own it myself. And if I really like them, I'll suggest something else. I'll say, listen, I can't do Friday as I said I could. How about we do Sunday? Or how about we do next week and I'll try versus other times? I'll just kind of slow fade or it's all right. I can't make it. Silence. No else after that. So that's. That's how I could tell. And then I think I want, you know, the listeners and viewers out there. If you're someone who kind of gets that in as this event, as this date, whatever shows up gets closer in your calendar, what's the thought that's going through your head? Is it. I don't feel like it. Is it? I'm not sure. Something better might come up. Or is it. I don't want to deal with this. Just. That's like, that's a good time to kind of get introspective on what's your motivation.
• 19:00
  Speaker B: Yeah. I would say for a lot of gay men, it's probably anxiety of some sort.
• 19:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 19:04
  Speaker B: And I think it's important, too, if. If. If someone cancels a plan, they're then the one to initiate the Next plan, right? Like, is that not like a good social rule of thumb? Like, if somebody's like, yeah, I can't make it on Friday, it's either, can we do it on Saturday? Or if it's radio silence, then that means that I am not reaching back out to you. Like, the ball is in your court. You've canceled. Now it's your turn to, to me to set up another plan. Is that an accurate assumption?
• 19:32
  Speaker A: I would say that that would be like the ideal if we were living in a world that I had social etiquette and everyone agreed to it. Yeah, that would be nice. But I don't think it's the reality. Certainly not for me. I've, I've been the one to initiate several times, but I have my own limit. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this one, two, three times, and then after that I'm done. And I'll say, listen. Like, I'll say listen, you know where to find me. I'm here. Hit me up when you're ready. Do they ever contact me? Right. But sometimes I will, I will be the one to give it a second or third shot. I don't mind that. That doesn't bother me. I don't make it mean anything about me. I don't make it mean that I'm being desperate or needy. I'm like, no, I'm willing to give this guy another shot because I really like him.
• 20:11
  Speaker B: And that's, yeah, yeah, that's a good, good way to look at it.
• 20:13
  Speaker A: Okay, let's, let's talk a little bit about now, like outside of just dating and friendships and social life thing, right? So for the audience out there, I want you to be honest. If you are someone who lacks follow through and social engagements, where el your life might this show up, does it show up in your fitness goals? Does it show up in your business and creativity and projects and personal growth? Because every time you don't follow through, you rehearse being unreliable. An unreliable person becomes a character trait every time you do it. And as a coach, coaching is a lot about accountability. It's a lot about holding people's feet to the fire. When they say they're going to do something, do they do it? You know, if they did great, what did we learn? If they didn't, why not? And in those moments of when they didn't do it and the why not, that's when all the stuff comes up. So that, to me, as a coach, is very, very fun to play with with My clients, it's like, okay, that's when all the fear and anxiety and self doubt comes up because they didn't do it for a reason. So let's talk about overall, Matt. Just this general lack of follow through period. Not just socially. So when does it, what do you think it does to your self trust when you don't follow through in any area of your life?
• 21:21
  Speaker B: Well, again, I can talk out of both sides of my face because what it's done to my self trust to follow through when I didn't have capacity, it's frayed my self trust. I broke my own personal boundaries to myself.
• 21:34
  Speaker A: Right.
• 21:34
  Speaker B: So. But then also when I don't follow through and my nervous system has been built around when things feel hard, I run right then. Yeah, like you're, you're not actually developing a capacity in your nervous system to be. So I do think a lot of this is a discernment thing. Discernment about capacity. Do I have the capacity? If I don't, then you work on pendulating. You work on moving towards the thing that is scary in slower increments. Right. And you build capacity in your nervous system. I think that's what this conversation comes down to. And, and if you don't have capacity in your nervous system, then flake out. But be honest about why you're flaking out. I think that's the biggest thing. But this has shown up in my work too, right? Like it's. I wouldn't say so much in my client work, but in like the GMB stuff, all my extraneous stuff, right. I've still been able to maintain and do good therapeutic work in my one on one practice. But the other area, all the other extraneous stuff, I've had to pull back. I haven't been able to give it my all.
• 22:32
  Speaker A: Right.
• 22:33
  Speaker B: And that's been, that's brought up inadequacy and shame and unworthiness and all the things that I actually need to work with.
• 22:39
  Speaker A: Right.
• 22:40
  Speaker B: So I've been learning how, you know, actually, you know what's interesting is I've been learning how to be good enough.
• 22:45
  Speaker A: Right.
• 22:46
  Speaker B: Before I used to be like, I have to be great at everything and I have to, you know, do do everything to tenfold and, and I burn myself out. And now I'm like, you know what? Good enough is okay.
• 22:55
  Speaker A: Right?
• 22:55
  Speaker B: It's like I. And I'm okay with that. I really am because it's the other. The end result of, of striving for greatness all the time is a exhausted nervous system. And I'm like, I don't got that kind of energy to just be great all the time. Like, I need to just be average sometimes too, you know, consciously average.
• 23:14
  Speaker A: I love that you started off there because that is such a key point that a lot of people miss. And, you know, I said every time you don't follow through, you rehearse being unreliable. But with what Matt was just saying there, he's being unreliable. He's not being unreliable. He's just being reliable to another need, a more pressing need in that moment for him. And that's a very, very, very, very, very different thing than excuses. And again, I think people know in their heart of hearts when it's an excuse, when they're lying to themselves and when they're not. And again, the great thing about having a coach or someone else is I, in that moment as the objective third party, can help you decide or help you discern. Were you actually tired and was this actually not the right moment for you to do the thing you said you were going to do? Or was there some kind of excuse happening going on there consciously or subconsciously? And then we can, we can go from there. So I am not advocating that you push yourself and you push your nervous system to the point of burnout, exhaustion, you know, where it's like affecting your life in a negative way. That's not at all what I'm speaking about. The, the unreliability piece is where I'm talking about like, and lack of follow through is when it's excuses. And again, it's hard to tell. I think we know, but it's very important that you know the difference. And I think it's really different. It's. It is very subjective. And some people have a higher tolerance and others have a lower tolerance. Not good or bad, just what it is. I certainly have my days where it's just like, Matt, you know this. I'm just like, nope, I have no, no capacity for that. Not happening. And that's okay. And, and as you had said, you know, good enough, average is just, it's just the day we're having today, and that's fine. And then there's other days where I do have the capacity, I do have the energy and I do have the resources. Now do I always want to. No. Right. And that's the distinction. There will always be more interesting things. I'm speaking about me here. There will always be more interesting things for me to do. There will always be more compelling things for me to do. There will always Be more pleasureful things for me to do. But that's when it's excuses. I'm like, well, I'd rather, I don't know, sit around on Grindr for four hours. But I am the kind of person who keeps his word to himself about, you know, about the things I want to do in my life. And so that's when I know that it's different. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I will choose the Grinder or doom scrolling and then I'll be like, why did I do that? Like. Like, I know, I know. And I. I do at times not choose that. But I will say for me, a big part of my identity and the man that I want to be, because this. I want the section to be about that. I want us to really zoom out. There is a man who keeps his word to himself and others. That's really important to me. It does. I'm not saying it has to be important for you guys out there, but to me, I don't know. I just find that. I find that I just want to be that man and I want to surround myself with those kinds of people. My friends, I would say, are very much like that. My family, I would say, is very much like that. I was just cut from that cloth of being reliable and loyal. And Matt, right, You. I would consider you one of those people. I have you in my life. And we've been doing this now, what, for five, five plus years? Six years. Yeah. And it's no coincidence that we've been doing this consistently, because I think you are a reliable person. And I wouldn't. We wouldn't be here for all this time, 300 episodes later, six years later, if we didn't keep our words to each other and to the commitments we make. Now, for those of you who don't, I mean, you guys don't know, as the viewer and listener, Matt and I are very honest with each other about when we can't show up. Right, Matt?
• 26:28
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 26:29
  Speaker A: And there are many times where both of us have just been like, you know what? I can't do this. I can't. I can't. Just can't today. And that is met with a lot of graciousness and honesty. And I think Matt is very good at being honest and authentic, and it's that authentic relating. And you're also very good when I'm the one who's just like, I can't, you know, I can't do this right now. And it's always my. With grace and compassion. So, you know, There is something to be said for surrounding yourself with people who get it. And we'll also kind of like, I also wouldn't do a lot of this work, Matt, if it wasn't for that accountability that you and I have for each other.
• 27:01
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I like that. And something that I think we try to do is we try and give each other time. Right? Like, transitionary time. I do think that when people flake out, if you tell someone 10 minutes before you're supposed to meet that you're not coming, versus, like, the day before, you're like, hey, listen, I'm kind of just feeling really wiped this week. I think tomorrow I'm going to be feeling like I just need a me day. Right? Like, that's a very different way to flake out because you're giving the other person time to find new plans and things. But when people flake out on you last minute, it really does suck.
• 27:31
  Speaker A: So. And I think with us, it's. I mean, it's definitely not a pattern of behavior, but we've. We've done it. And, you know, that's the. That's why I don't think it's flaky. I wouldn't call it that. Because it's. It is coming from an honest place, and it is truly a capacity thing. Like, it's not like I say to you, okay, I can't do this, and then I go run off and do something else. It's like, no, I really can't. Yeah.
• 27:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:51
  Speaker A: For me, it's. It's important that I have people in my life that are reliable and that keep their word. You know, even. Even going back to relationships. I don't want to build my life with maybe, energy. I want to build my life with a. Yeah. Energy.
• 28:05
  Speaker B: Especially romantically. Like, I. I need a yeah person.
• 28:09
  Speaker A: Yeah. It doesn't have to be on day one. I'm not expecting it to be yeah on day one. But, like, eventually, yeah, not like, yeah, you know, you're pretty cute. But. But, you know, there might be someone else over here. We talked about this, I think, one of our previous episodes, and I say, yeah, go. Go look. Good luck. Yeah, have fun. Because I'm not gonna sit here like, oh, no, please like me.
• 28:27
  Speaker B: Yeah. I won't be a maybe for somebody while they continue to look on Grindr.
• 28:31
  Speaker A: I'll give that a bit of time. I'll say, yeah, keep looking for a bit of time. But, like, you know, let me know how that goes. Yeah. And if they find someone else that they prefer. Then, yeah, you're not. You're not my person. And that sucks. Don't get me wrong. I've been that. And I'm like, oh, wow, okay, that's a. That's an eco bruise. But it is what it is.
• 28:47
  Speaker B: It's true. It's true. Not personalizing people's flakiness. It's the skill, that's for sure.
• 28:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that as people who are maybe reliable. I'm gonna say that. Or people that follow through and that are there, like, they're there. Like I'm there. Some people might not see that as attractive. And it's like one of those traits. It's like, oh, I'd rather chase the guy who's unavailable instead of Michael, who's there, like, saying, yeah, girl. Like, let's do this. Let's hang out. And I'm here. I'm ready. Like, call me when you're ready. About availability for some people, I don't know, they just don't. They don't find it attractive.
• 29:17
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, we should do an episode on that, actually. I'm gonna make a note of that.
• 29:20
  Speaker A: Availability instead of unavailability.
• 29:23
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 29:25
  Speaker A: Who wants that? That's boring. Yeah, I'm kidding. I say that in jest. I think a lot of people would. Would think that availability is boring because I've been the guy who likes to chase. I've said that as soon as you're a little bit unavailable. My historical pattern is, ooh, a conquest. Someone I can chase like a lion and a gazelle.
• 29:44
  Speaker B: It's all. It's all just playing out. Young. Young attachment, wounding, young rejection, wounding. And I think a lot of gay men are trying to heal that through status attainment, like organizing their attraction to guys around status. Like, oh, if I get the hot guy, that means that I finally made it. Or I'm hot too. Right? So anyway, that's a whole. Let's save that for another.
• 30:06
  Speaker A: I was gonna say something else on that, but yeah. Stay tuned, folks. Any. Any last words on flakiness and follow through in general? Integrity, reliability.
• 30:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, don't be a dishonest croissant. Be an honest croissant. I was thinking about croissants when you were talking about flakiness.
• 30:25
  Speaker A: It is. It is morning for you.
• 30:26
  Speaker B: It is morning.
• 30:27
  Speaker A: Okay, folks, thank you for sticking with us on another episode of Gaming Going Deeper. A reminder that this show is supported by donations. So you can go ahead and tap, if you're watching us on YouTube, tap the thanks button. And you can also get access to episodes on Apple, early episodes by subscribing on Apple. And for everything that we do here in the Gaiman's Brotherhood and gaming, going deeper, you can go to our website, Gaiman's Brotherhood.com. we run two connection circles per month. We have courses, we have coaching, we have men's groups, all kinds of great stuff going on. So please do check us out there. Have a good one.