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How Loan Officers Are Losing Deals To A $20/Month Chatbot · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
Welcome to the Mortgage Marketing Radio Show.
0:04
I'm today's host, Katie Shive,
0:05
filling in for Jeff Simper.
0:07
Now, normally before each show,
0:09
we would give you a teaser on who the guest is
0:12
and share some backstory so that you understand
0:15
what you're about to hear for the show.
0:17
But I have a different kind of receipt for you today
0:20
and I'm really excited for you to meet our guest.
0:23
Now, Trevor York is the founder of Link Spot.
0:26
He has had massive influence in the mortgage industry specifically
0:30
and he is truly somebody that I would say a creative genius.
0:35
He is out of Reno, Nevada.
0:37
But I know him as the guy who used to roll into
0:39
our college presentations five minutes before the clock started
0:42
without a single note and he would absolutely crush the room
0:46
while his now wife, then girlfriend,
0:50
and I had spent all weekend in the library
0:53
slaving over every detail the slide deck
0:55
and all of the papers that went with him.
0:58
So Trevor is a dear friend.
1:00
He is a dad.
1:02
He is a husband.
1:03
He has two rowdy boys and to be honest,
1:06
he is somebody that if he's not on your radar,
1:09
he absolutely needs to be.
1:11
So welcome to the show.
1:13
Trevor, let's get into today's episode.
1:24
Welcome to the show, Trevor.
1:33
It's so awesome to have you join us today.
1:35
It's stuck to be here, Katie. It's good to see you.
1:38
Yeah, it's this feels a little bit like college all over again.
1:42
We obviously have a little bit of a fun history
1:44
that most professionals in our industry don't have.
1:47
I would love to know what's your version of going to college together.
1:51
My version is that I would not have graduated college without you.
1:55
What is your version?
1:58
You would not have graduated college without you.
1:59
Okay, cool. Same version.
2:01
That's probably fair.
2:02
You don't know.
2:03
Is that an assumption or an elaboration?
2:05
But as I mentioned, you're really kind of like a career.
2:10
I think of you like a creative savant.
2:11
Like you are just wicked creative.
2:14
What is most frustrating about you is
2:16
you would roll into any final assignment,
2:21
like five minutes before class started.
2:23
I don't even think you ever had notes.
2:25
I don't even know if Jess ever practiced your notes.
2:27
Well, yes.
2:28
I mean, we'd have the final project,
2:30
but then you would just walk up to give the presentation
2:33
and you have this skill to just talk.
2:36
And to talk in a way that's not salesy
2:39
and it's not like, you know,
2:40
I mean, you probably could sell water to an Eskimo.
2:42
But it was really cool to see you have that skill
2:47
and that strength really early on.
2:49
And even now to watch you hone and like develop that craft.
2:54
So actually, like, let's dive in there for a second
2:56
because you make, I think from the outside looking in,
3:00
people might look at you and be like,
3:02
Trevor has his stuff together like his marketing is on lock,
3:06
his content, his copy, you know,
3:09
you're a licensed originator.
3:11
Like, you've been in the business since 2017.
3:14
And you, like, what brought you into mortgage?
3:18
I mean, my, my story is like, everybody else is like,
3:20
you just accidentally end up in mortgage, right?
3:22
Like, I don't think anybody kind of had that on the road.
3:24
Yeah, wait up and be like, I want to be a loan officer someday.
3:27
Yeah, exactly.
3:27
When we were sitting in college together,
3:29
like, that was never a conversation that came up.
3:31
That was not something to be honest.
3:32
I didn't know this, this job existed.
3:34
Like, I kind of like a lot of people I thought,
3:36
like, one day you get a mortgage.
3:37
I guess you go to your bank and you get the loan
3:39
and I didn't know there were people that did this.
3:41
And I mean, I met a guy on a plane going to Vegas.
3:47
There's like a very, very long story short talk to him.
3:49
He owned a title company, some again,
3:51
like three months later after I just sold the company
3:54
that I was running when I had talked to him.
3:57
And he's like, dude, how's the business going?
3:59
I was like, I actually sold it.
4:00
So I'm just pre-tired.
4:02
It was kind of a call.
4:03
I was like, just skiing every day and not working.
4:06
And so I was like, so if you know anyone higher
4:08
and then he's like, dude, I'll take you.
4:10
I'm like, I don't, what do you do on the title company?
4:12
So then, you know, turn of events.
4:14
I was going to work with him at a title company.
4:16
And then he's like, actually, I just sold my title company.
4:18
And I'm going into lending.
4:20
You got a spot where I go.
4:21
And then, yeah, that's kind of how it unfolded.
4:23
And now we're here.
4:25
Now we're slinging loans.
4:26
Now we're slinging loans almost 10 years later.
4:29
What's ironic part is both of us have completely different journeys
4:34
and how we got into mortgage.
4:35
But we both landed in this industry.
4:37
Having started in college together.
4:40
And obviously, both from the same town.
4:43
Okay, so talk me through like you started in mortgage in 2017.
4:47
And you are traditionally unconventional.
4:51
So you started in 2017 knowing nothing about the industry,
4:55
but having a couple mentors.
4:56
And if I remember correctly, your mentors were older.
4:59
Like they've been in the industry for a long time.
5:01
So really kind of that old school way of this is how we've always done it.
5:05
Because this is how it's always been done.
5:06
Right.
5:07
And really early on as I watched and had conversations with you,
5:12
you challenged that very quickly.
5:15
So talk me through what was the point where you were like,
5:18
hey, this is not the best way to do business.
5:21
And if I'm going to be successful in this business,
5:23
I certainly am not going to do it.
5:25
Quote how it's always been done.
5:27
It's so funny because like you of all people
5:29
and talking about college like you saw at first hand,
5:31
a lot of the things that have have served me well in business
5:34
were also very bad things.
5:35
The majority of my life because school.
5:38
Right.
5:38
And so it's exactly what you just said.
5:40
Like there's probably a better way to do this.
5:42
So there's a different way to do this.
5:43
And so like in college, that was I would wait for you
5:46
and my wife Jess to finish your papers
5:49
than I would read your paper to write my own paper.
5:51
Because that's your AI before.
5:53
Exactly.
5:55
And so I'm like, okay, I could read the,
5:57
you know, 150 pages to write this report.
6:00
Or I'll read your two page report to write my two rage report.
6:04
It's always like some of it was, I mean,
6:07
it was definitely like a negative thing.
6:09
But when I got into mortgage and just in business in general,
6:12
it's served me really well is like questioning the way
6:14
that things are done.
6:15
And I think a lot of people don't do that.
6:17
And it's kind of cool that something that has been,
6:20
something I've battled my whole life
6:22
ended up being something that has been like,
6:23
oh, no, that's a good thing.
6:24
Encourage, you know, questioning like,
6:25
but why do we do it this way?
6:27
Can I do it this other way?
6:28
Why not do it this other way?
6:31
And it's funny as it is too.
6:32
I don't know if you remember this.
6:33
This was when I first got into mortgage,
6:35
me and you had a meeting and this was
6:37
you tried to hire two years before you got in.
6:39
This will be a question.
6:40
No, I was, I was actively looking for a role
6:44
because I had just left the Fintech company that I was at.
6:48
Okay.
6:48
I was actively looking and you're like,
6:50
hey, we should go to coffee.
6:52
And I think you just knew our collaboration and synergy
6:55
and you're like, I think you need to come join me.
6:58
But at the time, do you remember what position you had
7:01
or what the, what you were trying to bring me in for?
7:03
I think it was an L-O-A, right?
7:05
Yeah, it was an L-O-A.
7:06
So it was my more technical.
7:08
Yeah.
7:08
And I ended up taking a more like,
7:12
at the time of a marketing role at GIL.
7:14
So you're a competitor in the same town.
7:16
Yeah.
7:17
I know, I will always wonder what the path would have looked like
7:21
if I had started on your team.
7:23
Not that that's a regret,
7:24
but I'm just curious like what that journey would have looked like.
7:27
I know and it's funny because that,
7:28
the reason you came to mind too is for that reason of like,
7:32
I kind of knew what a traditional L-O-A looked like.
7:35
But knowing your skill set was the thing that like,
7:38
again, trying to look at it from a different lens of like,
7:40
what would happen if me and you were doing this?
7:44
And then there's a different way.
7:45
And then we're focusing on being like a very marketing heavy
7:47
and marketing oriented team.
7:49
And fun enough like the Amanda who works at Link Spot
7:53
and runs a lot of the business here was like brought in
7:57
at my mortgage company to help me with loans.
8:02
And it's with that same focus.
8:03
But yes, I was kind of in short,
8:05
that questioning kind of why we do what we do
8:09
and having incredible mentors,
8:11
but mentors that have been in the business for 30 years at the time.
8:14
And I was like, I've only been alive for 24 years.
8:16
You've been doing this job for 30.
8:18
And they've been doing it the same way.
8:20
And the guy I worked for originally is like,
8:23
the greatest human ever.
8:24
Still super good friend, strong faith.
8:26
Someone that I still look up to a lot.
8:29
But the way he built his business was like,
8:30
as old school as it gets.
8:32
And so when I started to push, I'm like, man,
8:34
I think it's just a him thing, you know,
8:36
like there's probably better ways.
8:37
And then I look at the rest of the industry,
8:38
I'm like, this is pretty industry-wide.
8:41
Like no one's really like using direct marketing,
8:46
no one's using internet marketing at all, right?
8:49
Like there was not any elbows making videos.
8:52
Or if you look at, I mean, I think from the top down,
8:56
like at the enterprise or the corporate level,
8:58
you have your very generic standard, you know,
9:01
templated marketing stuff.
9:03
But that really has no impact.
9:05
Like I don't even think people look at that much anymore.
9:08
Yeah.
9:09
But yeah, so you, so talk me through a little bit
9:12
because your background before you even got into lending,
9:14
like you were really strong in video.
9:17
You had a business that did video as well.
9:20
So you were comfortable on camera,
9:22
and you were also really fluent in using the, you know,
9:25
the gear and whatnot.
9:27
So did you bring in video, like video emails,
9:30
video texting, like pretty early on
9:32
as part of your communication strategy?
9:34
Not as early as I should have.
9:36
Um, but yeah, prior to doing loans
9:39
and like going through college out,
9:40
shoot videos, film weddings, make YouTube videos.
9:42
So like I knew video really well.
9:44
And then straight out of college, I went into sales.
9:46
And so I had like sales and video.
9:48
And that's where what kind of created this perfect storm
9:50
for the content that I started creating.
9:53
But it was funny because it was something
9:54
that I kept wanting to do.
9:55
Like I just need to make videos and talk about this
9:57
because I was confused buying a house.
10:00
And I've been investing like since high school.
10:03
So I feel like I understand finance,
10:05
I understand money, I understand economics really well.
10:08
And I was so confused when I went to buy a house.
10:11
And like if I'm confused, everyone's confused.
10:14
Now, did you buy a house after you had become an originator
10:19
or before?
10:20
Literally like I was going through the licensing process
10:24
while I bought my house.
10:26
So you were essentially your first client.
10:28
In a way, you were like test case number one.
10:32
And if I am confused and I'm a millennial,
10:35
how many more trevers are there out there in the world
10:40
that feel like this system was not made for this type of,
10:44
like this age bracket?
10:45
Exactly.
10:46
And it kind of, it almost took me a year
10:49
to come back to that because there's that piece of,
10:52
especially when in 2017 is like, you know,
10:55
you had to crash a lot of people who didn't have
10:57
a solid mortgage business got out of the business.
11:00
No one was going into mortgage.
11:02
And so in 2017 when I started and I was 24,
11:05
I think or 23 or 24,
11:08
there was no one that was even like below 35 in mortgage,
11:12
at least in our market, right?
11:13
Like there were very few young people.
11:17
And so I had this fear of like I need to make sure people know
11:20
I know what I'm talking about
11:22
because I'm competing against 40, 50, 60 year olds
11:25
who have been doing this job for 30 years.
11:28
And so I was doing the things that I thought I should
11:31
to make people think that I was trust.
11:33
Like credibility or something, yes.
11:36
And unfortunately that looked like the exact thing
11:38
that I did not like when I went through
11:39
which is using industry jargon,
11:41
dressing in a very specific way with your colored shirt on.
11:44
And right, and it just, I'm like, this was the exact thing
11:47
I didn't like when I was getting a mortgage.
11:49
But it unfortunately took me a year for that to like,
11:52
so can I stop doing this?
11:54
I'm going to do it in a different way.
11:57
Interesting.
11:57
So you took your personal experience,
12:00
which I think is the best way to build any business on
12:02
if you're going to revamp a system is like, okay,
12:05
what like you're the closest to really at that point
12:09
figuring out what was broken or what didn't make sense
12:12
because it was a completely foreign process for you.
12:14
So then fast forward a little bit.
12:16
You figure out, okay, this is the type of content
12:20
that would help and it was largely, you know, education.
12:23
So then what did you start doing?
12:26
So a lot of it was like, there's stuff that I was learning
12:29
that I was like, well, I actually didn't know this.
12:31
And so this is information that I want to give to people.
12:33
And at the time like Facebook was the only place,
12:35
I mean, YouTube, right, but to get to my sphere
12:38
like Facebook videos.
12:40
And so my first few videos I need to find them
12:42
because they're terrible.
12:43
And I think it would be great to show people.
12:45
But it was just like giving information in a video.
12:48
So I'd make a four minute video about FHA loans.
12:51
And it was weird because people actually did appreciate
12:53
that education.
12:56
And without jumping too far ahead,
12:57
the kind of process of like, how do I strip that down
12:59
to be a video that actually want to watch?
13:01
And then, you know, going from four minutes
13:03
and shortening them and shortening them.
13:06
But yeah, that was kind of the idea.
13:07
It's like, there's actually information.
13:08
I feel like people should know.
13:10
And this is a good way to give it to them.
13:13
So then fast forward, you obviously started growing.
13:16
And then what was your transition?
13:18
Like I know that you joined all Western mortgage
13:22
and you and Neil started building some really cool things.
13:26
This is also why it's fun to just kind of have this
13:28
behind the scenes conversation.
13:29
Also being in Reno, on the guild side,
13:32
like, guild has a very strong market share,
13:36
like a very heavy market share in whole market.
13:40
Yes, to put it lightly, humbly.
13:43
And then you have Neil and Trevor doing things
13:47
with all Western mortgage.
13:49
And I remember like seeing stuff pop up
13:52
in some of these like community Facebook groups,
13:55
like the Northern Nevada Real Estate professionals.
13:57
And I remember seeing like you and Neil were teaching
14:00
a class at KW down in South Reno, if you remember this.
14:03
And I was like, I am going to come.
14:05
You know, like I got to keep a pulse on the confidence.
14:08
And I remember just watching you guys.
14:11
And it is so, it is what I want to highlight is,
14:14
I think we have a propensity to look at where people are today
14:18
and we don't see what they were building, right?
14:21
So I can say firsthand, I was in the room in 2018
14:24
when you and Neil were literally doing webinars
14:28
in the hallway with a TV, like on a rolling cart.
14:31
Like you're no tech, nothing.
14:34
And what I love about that is you guys just kept your head
14:38
down and you kept building.
14:40
And now look at where both of you are.
14:41
And let's talk about where you're at today.
14:43
Like what are you doing today?
14:45
Yeah, so did you want to talk about that process
14:47
or talk about today?
14:49
Yeah, oh yes, okay.
14:49
So talk about the process, like,
14:51
so what led you into that process?
14:53
So it's kind of funny because the whole thing
14:56
and you did get a really cool perspective of it
14:59
because it went from this very localized movement
15:03
where you're doing to then becoming very globalized.
15:06
And at the beginning I was making the videos by myself
15:10
and this was something I wanted to do
15:11
and then I met Neil who's in my market.
15:13
And there is only two people in all of Reno
15:15
that are making videos and putting them on the internet
15:17
and it was me and Neil.
15:18
And I say this to Neil, so this is not it.
15:22
Like, Neil's videos were very bad, right?
15:23
My background was video.
15:25
Neil was learning it as he goes
15:26
and he just had the drive to put the stuff out there.
15:30
But I was looking at it and I'm like,
15:31
this guy's not a video guy, not this guy.
15:34
You know, and so at first I kind of had this like,
15:36
when I saw Neil post and I'm like,
15:37
dang it, this is my lane, you know,
15:39
but then also I'm like, what are these guys videos?
15:42
These are terrible.
15:43
And then he did a little class
15:46
and he opened it up to realtors and lenders
15:49
and I'm like, I wanna go to this guy's
15:50
and it was like how to dominate with video or something.
15:53
I'm like, this guy doesn't even,
15:55
let's see what this is about.
15:56
You know, and I went to his class with like six people in it
15:59
and afterwards he came up and he was just like,
16:01
dude, I've seen your videos like those are awesome.
16:03
Have you thought about any of these just like,
16:06
I think he was as excited as I was
16:08
that collaborating with someone else
16:10
that is interested in the same things you are.
16:12
And then the cool part again,
16:13
like my background was in video
16:15
and Neil's trying to learn it as he goes.
16:16
So we kind of had different skill sets
16:18
that were really complementing each other.
16:21
And so yeah, me and him just kept in touch
16:23
after that bunch of different events happened.
16:25
And I ended up switching and going and working with Neil.
16:29
And the thing that I've loved about like working with Neil's,
16:31
he would just push like we coming up with ideas
16:35
was something that was really fun.
16:36
Still is, it's my favorite thing in the world.
16:38
But with Neil, it's kind of like you throw an idea out there
16:41
and then it's in progress.
16:43
Like, well, that was kind of, that was half baked.
16:45
You know what else in it's there?
16:46
Like let's do a class and all some work.
16:47
Okay, we scheduled it next Friday, like dude,
16:50
we don't have, what are we teaching?
16:51
What are the slides look like?
16:52
How are we gonna get, like, you know,
16:53
that's where my head was like,
16:54
wait, we gotta do a lot of stuff, dude.
16:56
So I won't know, we kind of have to
16:58
because we already, you know, set the date.
17:00
And so then that's where yeah, we do the classes
17:02
where we see you guys and we're making videos
17:05
and we're making the videos better.
17:06
And we made this kind of splash locally
17:10
because we're, again, it was more of,
17:11
more than anything, like we were just the first people doing it.
17:15
And so it was like this kind of shiny object
17:17
and realtors wanted to make social media videos
17:18
or show them how.
17:21
And then from there, it's crazy to what it's grown into
17:23
for both Neil and me because as we just focused on,
17:28
like, making really good videos, like my whole goal
17:31
is just to make videos that people would want to watch.
17:33
And so when I look back at like the first video
17:35
I made four minutes long about FHA loans
17:37
and how painful that is to getting to a point
17:40
where we could package a really good video
17:42
with a good piece of information in like 30 seconds
17:46
that people would actually want to watch.
17:48
That was the progression that led to it going from like,
17:50
okay, we're reaching a lot of people locally to,
17:52
like dude, we're reaching thousands, tens of thousands,
17:54
like millions of people with this content.
17:57
And then kind of the same thing locally that was happening
17:59
which is people saying like how do you do it?
18:01
It was happening now on a national scale.
18:02
Like you're getting DMs from loan officers
18:05
and realtors all over the country of like,
18:06
what camera do you shoot on?
18:07
How do you do this?
18:08
Where do you come up with your ideas?
18:09
And then that led to, you know, forward,
18:12
which is like we're teaching allows
18:14
and realtors all over the country
18:16
and then it keeps growing from there.
18:19
What I love is, yeah, just thanks for sharing part
18:23
of your journey.
18:24
I think, you know, locally, I don't know how people,
18:29
not that they didn't take you seriously,
18:31
but I think there is a, we can tend to just think
18:35
that we're the dominant force or we've got market share
18:38
or we've been doing this for a long time, so we're fine.
18:40
Like they stop building the moat around them, right?
18:43
And then you guys just kept,
18:45
you kept your head down and you kept building
18:47
and then all of a sudden it's like before you know it,
18:50
wow, you're really a force to reckon with
18:53
because you guys had started gaining trust
18:56
on massive scale and that just goes to show,
18:59
that's the power of video
19:01
where you guys were really gaining a lot of trust,
19:03
not just locally, but nationally.
19:06
So talk to us about what you're doing now
19:08
and what has that evolved into.
19:10
So now I run a company,
19:13
I started a company called Link Spot,
19:15
I think we're three years and now three and a half
19:17
and basically like in that process of teaching social media
19:22
content to loan officers and realtors,
19:25
I realized there was this missing gap
19:27
and that was the thing that I was building for myself
19:29
was like, okay, I teach you how to make good content,
19:30
people watch your content, then what happens?
19:32
And so for me and my own journey of creating content
19:35
and getting a bunch of eyeballs
19:36
and like how do we turn those eyeballs into leads
19:38
and then there's like, okay, I need lead magnets
19:41
and then I need those to live somewhere.
19:42
So we got these landing pages
19:43
and then I need the leads to go somewhere.
19:45
So now I got my CRM and then I need to be able
19:47
to nurture those leads.
19:48
So then I got my email software
19:50
and I built this just with individual apps
19:52
and then using Zapier to connect them all.
19:54
It was a mess, but it worked perfect for me.
19:57
And so as I started teaching the content more,
19:59
like people are like, well, dude, I need that part.
20:01
Like who built your website?
20:02
I'm like, I did.
20:04
Like, well, who did all this?
20:05
I'm like, can you do it for me?
20:06
I'm like, you would hate me
20:07
because this is a lot, like this is not,
20:10
you're gonna need a full time person to manage this.
20:12
And at the time I'm coaching some of the top producing
20:15
loan officers in the country.
20:16
So when I say like, you're gonna have to hire
20:19
a full time person to do it, they're like, that's fine.
20:21
I'll do it.
20:22
And I'm like, maybe there's something here, you know,
20:25
like that is obviously a massive investment
20:27
for somebody to make to get this type of setup.
20:29
And I'm sure I could simplify this.
20:31
And then yeah, that's kind of what we built links
20:34
about off of is like, if in my dream situation,
20:37
I want one app that does all of these things,
20:39
I gave that to a developer and that's what became
20:42
links about now.
20:43
It does all of that stuff just in one easy spot.
20:46
So you built for the industry, the very thing that you needed.
20:51
And now it has grown three years and you have hundreds
20:54
and you've coached thousands of loan officers
20:57
and built your own community and your own platform,
21:00
which is pretty wild.
21:02
One of the things I want to talk about for a second,
21:05
you have a phrase and you say that normal is invisible.
21:09
What do you mean by that?
21:10
Like, and what does that look like for loan officers
21:12
who are trying to stand out?
21:15
Yeah, there's kind of two that I say a lot.
21:17
And they basically have the same meeting
21:19
but normal is invisible and then different is better
21:22
than better.
21:23
And both of those are saying the same thing,
21:25
which is like, our whole goal is to be noticed
21:28
and to stand out.
21:29
And it's very, very easy for you and me to both say,
21:32
like, what would make someone stand out?
21:34
And we'll just be different, right?
21:36
If you've got a hundred looking at this water bottle,
21:39
water bottles lined up and we're like,
21:40
okay, we want to make one stand out, what would we do?
21:43
Pain it, you know, make it taller, make it shorter,
21:45
make it wider, do anything to just make it look different
21:47
than everybody else.
21:49
But the other 99 bottles essentially become invisible
21:52
when there's one that becomes very noticeable.
21:54
And so it's kind of this thing that I've been trying to
21:57
push a lot of the people I coach for years of like,
22:00
be you and more than just being different
22:02
for the sake of being different.
22:03
Like it's not to go be polarizing
22:04
and just throw a green hat on
22:06
because you think people will notice you.
22:07
It's like we're inherently different
22:10
and there are things that make us ask.
22:11
Like you have your kDisms that make you you
22:14
show those to the world.
22:15
And it is crazy how difficult the conversation
22:18
that is to have with people.
22:21
It's like, hey, just be yourself.
22:23
And it's like, that should be the easiest thing in the world.
22:24
Like if there's one person I should be able to be very easily,
22:27
it's me is like, no, no, that's the hardest thing.
22:30
Like it was easier for me when I got in the loans
22:32
to like put my college shirt on and talk like my manager
22:35
because that felt like the riskless option, right?
22:38
Like it worked for him.
22:39
I don't want people to like, what if,
22:41
I don't know what happens if I don't wear a college shirt?
22:44
Like do I get fine?
22:45
Is there a, you know, like why, why is the,
22:48
let's get it come out, get you.
22:50
Exactly.
22:51
Like at some point I started to ask those questions of like,
22:54
can we do, can I do that?
22:57
Yeah.
22:58
Yeah, and I mean, that's a great point.
23:01
So how do you feel?
23:03
I mean, people struggle with that.
23:05
Like as a, you know, somebody that,
23:06
I also help loan officers work through their messaging
23:10
and figure out, you know, these kinds of things.
23:12
And that is the million dollar question.
23:15
Like when I ask who are you, well, I'm a loan officer.
23:18
I'm like, no, no, no, that's what you do.
23:20
So like, who are you?
23:22
And, you know, I always put it back.
23:24
If I were to stand you up to next to three other lenders,
23:26
you know, the realtors typically give out three cards.
23:29
What is it that is going to make me choose you?
23:32
You have to get really clear on that.
23:35
Because if you don't, then your content and everything else
23:39
you do is going to look the exact same.
23:43
Yeah.
23:43
And I think people think it might be a much bigger leap
23:46
than it is.
23:47
Right?
23:48
Like, I, I love, I don't know, dirt bikes.
23:50
Does that mean I need to be the dirt bike lender?
23:52
And then I need to wear dirt bike jerseys every time I do it.
23:55
Like, it doesn't need to be that big of a leap, right?
23:57
Like, at the beginning for me, and it was this really cool evolution
24:01
kind of for myself discovering of what all this is.
24:04
But at the beginning of it was like, what makes me different
24:06
than everybody else?
24:07
Like you, when you say work for Gail too, like,
24:10
Shayla Gifford is arguably the best L.O. in the country, right?
24:14
Like, she's an absolute phenom in my hero, right?
24:19
That's who I'm up against.
24:20
She's in my market.
24:21
Like, I'm going against the best loan
24:22
opportunities in the country.
24:24
Yeah.
24:25
Yeah.
24:26
And I'm, I'm 24.
24:27
I've been in the business for one year.
24:28
Why would anyone use me over Shayla?
24:31
She has more knowledge, she has more experience,
24:32
she has a better team, she has all of these things.
24:35
And so when I, and this, I, I've never seen Shayla
24:38
in like a console there.
24:39
And she obviously at that time was not making content.
24:41
So I don't know how she would talk to customers,
24:43
but based on everybody in my branch and everybody else
24:45
that I had seen talk to customers in my own experience.
24:47
Like, the thing that makes me is I'm going to just speak
24:50
differently about this entire process, right?
24:53
So before I get into the whole deeper brand of who I am,
24:57
the really simple part is like,
24:58
what is going to be different if someone works with me?
25:00
And then that comes through in my content.
25:02
So when I'm making videos, I talk very casually.
25:05
I have this like delivery that made it non-threatening, right?
25:09
Like when I first started making videos, like that was the point
25:11
because that was what was different than everybody else.
25:14
And so it wasn't this like stick that I had to do
25:16
or this deep dive on my brand.
25:18
Like my brand was the person that was approachable.
25:20
And so that was the thing where it's like,
25:22
there's been loan officers doing this way longer than me
25:25
that are better at lows.
25:26
And I was winning deals because people saw that first, right?
25:30
Like that became the brand that I was building.
25:33
And so it kind of takes a load off of like,
25:36
when people have to just get really nervous of like,
25:38
what is my brand, who am I?
25:39
I just like, yeah, what would be different
25:41
when I work with you?
25:43
Well, we'd probably be talking about my kids
25:45
because I have pictures of my kids all over my office.
25:47
So if you came in, we'd be talking about that.
25:49
Cool, where are the pictures at?
25:50
Like, well, ones in Hawaii, you guys are going to Hawaii.
25:52
Yes, and ones this and this.
25:54
And then all of a sudden you realize like who these people are
25:56
and they become, yeah, real people
25:58
instead of just robotic task takers.
26:03
Well, I think we often, yeah, we often look at that.
26:06
Like just fitting that, you know,
26:08
we talk a lot about personas, you know,
26:09
especially with marketing, like know your personas
26:11
and who are you talking to and how many people put themselves
26:16
in a persona that they actually really are not, right?
26:19
Like if I met you out in the wild,
26:21
would you really look like that, talk like that, sound like that?
26:25
No.
26:26
So then why are you showing up on video
26:27
or why are you sounding like that in my inbox
26:30
or on my social thread?
26:31
Like, you don't talk like that.
26:33
Second to that, I always, I also like to say,
26:36
I'd love to hear your feedback on this is,
26:38
you know, a personal brand should be personal.
26:40
Like the other day I was looking at an Instagram post
26:44
or a page for a loan officer before I got on the call with them.
26:48
I had to like scroll like five or six swipes down
26:52
before I could find one post that I was like,
26:56
oh, he does this activity.
26:58
Like everything was just listed just sold
27:00
or your company marketing and I'm like, okay,
27:02
maybe it's just me, but I don't believe it is.
27:04
I know nothing about you as a human
27:07
and I actually am wanting to come work with you
27:09
because you're a human.
27:10
So how did you take that human approach into your marketing
27:14
because everything you do is hyper personal?
27:17
Yeah.
27:18
I think that there's kind of a couple takeaways
27:20
on what you just said too.
27:21
And the part with personal branding
27:23
and there's so many different definitions of this
27:25
and every creator and guru has a different like version
27:28
of what they think a personal brand should be.
27:30
And for me, the thing I kind of landed on recently
27:32
is like, it's the pattern people expect
27:34
when they see you are here, your name.
27:36
Like that's kind of it, right?
27:38
And that's why we all have one.
27:41
And so it's not creating it.
27:42
It's just identifying it in yourself
27:44
or giving yourself the permission to let that come through.
27:46
And so like when I look at you, there's so many things
27:49
that make you you that come through
27:51
in the content you make and when I'm around you.
27:53
And I know you have a family
27:54
and how important family is to you
27:55
and how important the outdoors are to you
27:57
and how important your faith is to you.
27:58
Like I even know how often your kids get sick
28:01
because your kids get sick a lot, right?
28:02
Like those are just the patterns.
28:04
Yeah.
28:05
The hand foot and mouth thing, you know, I've said like,
28:08
I didn't even know what that was until I saw you post
28:11
about it with your family.
28:13
I hope I never get it either.
28:16
But it's the pattern that I expect with you.
28:18
And so when I see you in person, it's the same thing.
28:21
And that's what you want.
28:22
And so like the thing that I teach a lot is like
28:24
the goal should be when you talk to somebody,
28:27
they never go, huh, I didn't know that about you.
28:31
Cause then that means we haven't done a good enough job.
28:33
Right?
28:34
So if that person you're talking to is like,
28:36
oh yeah man, I love going out on my boat
28:37
and you're like, I didn't know that about you.
28:39
Yeah.
28:40
Then you're not sharing enough, you know,
28:42
and it doesn't need to be the deeply personal things.
28:43
We're like, my goal when I was a little kid
28:45
is to be an astronaut, like I didn't know about you.
28:47
Like, okay, well, you probably wouldn't know all of those.
28:49
But if it were things, like if I were to tell you,
28:51
like I love taking my son, riding bikes,
28:53
and you're like, I didn't know that.
28:55
It's like I do that every single day.
28:57
If you don't know that about me,
28:59
that's like I'm not letting the world know who I actually am.
29:03
You know, it's funny.
29:04
I will find myself talking,
29:07
like if I'm referring to somebody
29:09
that I follow on social media
29:10
and I'm talking to somebody in person
29:12
about somebody that I follow online,
29:14
if I know them very well,
29:16
oftentimes I'll be like, oh yeah,
29:18
one of my friends does X, Y, and Z.
29:20
And then I like, you know, think I'm like,
29:23
I've never met them in real life.
29:24
And I just referred to them as my friend
29:26
because I feel like I know them so well.
29:30
And yet if I follow your content and it's very static,
29:34
I never referred you as my friend.
29:36
Oh, this is person I follow online
29:38
or this person I know, right?
29:41
And so there's this familiarity,
29:43
I think that we build and you build,
29:45
you know, that's why I was telling people,
29:46
I'm like, you're building trust,
29:48
your content should be building trust
29:50
and working for you 24-7 when you're not selling
29:54
or you're not in the room.
29:55
That is the power of your personal brand.
29:58
So that when you get there
30:00
or you're bumping into somebody in the airport,
30:01
they're like, oh my gosh, like I know you.
30:04
So why does this matter, right?
30:06
Like what you're saying and what I'm saying,
30:08
we talk about it.
30:09
And a lot of times I feel like there's people
30:10
that are like, but why does that matter?
30:12
What is the point?
30:12
Why do I need to share me right?
30:14
How does this translate to loans?
30:16
Yeah, how does this translate to the,
30:17
how's this gonna make me more money, right?
30:18
For these people.
30:20
Think about, if you're a loan officer,
30:22
think about like your dream client that you've had.
30:24
We all have them.
30:26
The one where you're like, dude,
30:27
that person, if every loan I did was for that client,
30:30
I would love my job, right?
30:32
They don't shop you, they trust you,
30:34
they come in, they converse with all of those.
30:36
Every time when I tell loan officers to think of that person
30:39
and actually tell me about them,
30:40
there was a personal connection that happened
30:42
with that person.
30:43
That is why they become the dream client.
30:45
And it used to be that coming to your office,
30:47
they sit down, they'd see the skateboard hanging on my wall.
30:49
We started talking about that.
30:51
Now I used to skateboard when I was a little
30:52
and then long boarding was actually the thing I loved
30:54
doing in college.
30:55
And then set a football and like, yeah,
30:56
I had signed by Chris Carr, he went to McQueen,
30:58
I played football there and my brother.
31:00
And also when you're building all this rapport
31:02
and to your word that you've used a lot of times
31:04
which is the most important one, trust with these people, right?
31:07
That's how they become that dream client.
31:10
And so basically we're just leading with that.
31:13
Because our job historically has always been like,
31:15
hey, my job is to get you in my office sitting in front of me,
31:18
right, pre-COVID.
31:20
And then once you're sitting in front of me,
31:21
I need to build as much rapport as I possibly can
31:23
because that's how I'm gonna get you
31:24
to become a client who trusts me.
31:26
And then ultimately, the client set of the ones
31:29
that are your dream clients become your dream referral partners.
31:32
Every time you're like, dude, they were my best client.
31:34
They've also sent me 10 people.
31:35
The 10 people they sent were also very much like them
31:38
which makes those 10 easier.
31:40
That's why this is so important.
31:42
Yeah.
31:43
And we're the most commoditized we've ever been right now.
31:47
Well, and let's talk about that for a second
31:49
because I think with AI especially,
31:54
now it has never been easier to create content.
31:57
20 bucks a month and everybody's a thought leader,
31:59
everybody's a subject matter expert.
32:01
And you can outsource your likeness, your voice,
32:04
your picture, your video, everything.
32:07
And so content feels very cheap.
32:09
What would you say to somebody who is wanting to get started?
32:13
And wanting to maybe use AI,
32:15
but like they're just getting started
32:17
and they're needed to build some confidence and some reps.
32:20
Like how can they avoid that commodity chop?
32:24
I would probably tell them to hit up Katie
32:26
because I think you're doing a really good job
32:28
of helping people understand how to navigate AI.
32:31
And I think you understand this a lot better than I do.
32:33
Might take on it so a lot different.
32:37
But I do think it's important to use that
32:39
to build these things we're talking about, right?
32:42
But at the core of it, like if the core is bad,
32:45
AI might amplify something that is already not good.
32:47
So if that works not done ahead of time
32:50
and identify who you are, what you wanna stand for,
32:52
what you want the world to recognize when they see you,
32:55
I think you can be burning a lot of time,
32:57
energy and effort using these AI tools
32:59
that aren't gonna get you much of a result.
33:02
But I think it's the whole personal brand thing
33:05
and building your image to be recognized by people
33:11
is so important right now because two reasons, right?
33:14
It's the easiest it's ever been,
33:16
which also makes it where it's the most competitive
33:17
it's ever been and it's the hardest to break through the ceiling.
33:20
But it's the most important it's ever been
33:22
because we are being commoditized by AI by big banks
33:27
like it's easier to get your mortgage done
33:30
by these direct lenders and these big companies
33:32
than it's ever been.
33:33
And so the more trusty build, the better.
33:36
So it's like it's never been more important
33:38
it's never been easier, which is like
33:40
that's why we need to focus on it
33:43
and not checking the box but doing it really well.
33:45
And so I think there's people and that's why
33:48
I don't say that jokingly of like I would get a hold
33:50
of Katie when it comes to trying to navigate
33:52
how you incorporate AI onto your business.
33:55
People are using AI as this shortcut and checking the box
33:58
and it is the exact thing of using your corporate
34:01
generated social media content to me.
34:04
It's kind of looking there.
34:05
It might look different, but it's the same, yeah.
34:07
And it's the exact, like it is the, it's the,
34:09
it's the hundred water bottles.
34:11
They're all going to look at the same.
34:12
They're all AI generated content.
34:13
They're checking the box.
34:15
And so I don't think that that is the answer
34:17
for people that want like, oh, now there's the easy button
34:19
where we say it's the easiest it's ever been, like yeah.
34:22
Hey, I'm going to train a agent
34:23
and then chat you please going to feed it scripts
34:25
and then now my AI self is chopping videos every three hours.
34:30
Like, well, and that to me, it erodes trust.
34:35
Like we talk about, you know, this industry, especially
34:38
when you look at the statistics around like next
34:40
gen and millennials and how they lack there of trust,
34:44
realtors and loan officers in our space.
34:47
If you're already starting on an uphill advantage,
34:51
then your content has to be at the core,
34:54
really authentic to who you are.
34:56
My whole thing is like, if your content can't feel like,
35:00
like if you can't take the two minutes
35:02
to record the video and be human and do this,
35:06
like, I don't know, I'm going to find somebody else.
35:09
And maybe that's just me, but again,
35:12
you're outsourcing your like this.
35:14
Yeah.
35:15
And I think that that is the part of like the more you make
35:22
and the more authentic way you build trust,
35:24
if you don't, you're not actually getting the benefit.
35:27
Right, if you're making videos to make videos,
35:28
if you're creating AI content to create AI content,
35:31
you are not actually going to see the benefit
35:33
of what really comes from that.
35:35
Yeah, you can do fewer, but have better quality
35:38
and not just quality and that it's, you know,
35:40
professionally produced and elaborate,
35:42
but I think it's genuine.
35:43
It strikes a nerve with you said something
35:46
that needed to be said to the audience that follows you.
35:50
I want to talk to you about the concept
35:52
of being a top producer versus a top communicator.
35:56
Because I think we celebrate in this industry,
35:58
like, you know, top 1% or Scottsman's guide
36:01
or top, we throw that jargon around a lot.
36:04
I'm a top producer, right?
36:06
It's, it's almost watered down, but maybe whatever.
36:10
But what about the concept of not being known
36:13
for just being a top producer, but I'm a top communicator?
36:16
What, what's your take on that?
36:19
That's a really good question.
36:20
I think it's, it's interesting
36:24
because the whole top producer thing,
36:26
I don't think appeals to consumers.
36:29
No, I don't have your hands, right?
36:31
It's just to flex on other people in our industry,
36:33
a lot of other...
36:34
I'm talking about the mindset of the loan officer
36:37
being like, reframing as top producer versus top communicator.
36:41
As far as like what they're trying to achieve?
36:44
Yeah, like if it's a goal, so I mean,
36:46
you're right that the client doesn't care
36:48
if you're a top user, like they don't even know what that means.
36:50
Like that's just another industry jargon of like,
36:52
I could care less, like what does that matter for me?
36:56
But it's, it's kind of a spin on being, you know,
36:58
the digital mayor or the best known.
37:01
But, you know, rather than having this goal of like,
37:03
I want to be the top producer,
37:05
what if your drive wasn't to just have the most numbers,
37:10
but like I want to be the best, the best known?
37:12
Like I want to be the top communicator in my industry,
37:17
which hopefully would look like translating to other things.
37:21
I think they're starting to become one in the same, right?
37:24
So it's almost like if you want to be the best bodybuilder
37:27
and I want to get as ripped as possible,
37:30
I also want to be the most consistent going to the gym.
37:32
And I want to be the best at, I don't know, bodybuilding, right,
37:36
posing or whatever, but those are the elements
37:38
that are needed to become the best.
37:40
So if your goal in your head is like,
37:42
I want to be a top producer,
37:43
I identify as like a top producer,
37:45
what would you need to get there?
37:47
Being a top communicator is going to be
37:48
at the very top of that list.
37:51
And so I think they're, it's good because it's like Terry Cruz,
37:55
I saw a clip of Terry Cruz talking about this
37:57
and it's about going to the gym and he's like,
37:59
people think it's, because I,
38:01
if you guys know Terry Cruz,
38:02
dude is just massive, yoke muscular guy, right?
38:05
And he's talking about people are like,
38:06
oh, it must be really easy for you to go to the gym.
38:08
He's like, I hate going to the gym.
38:10
And then he's talking about the self talk of like,
38:12
I don't, my goal is to put on my gym clothes.
38:16
So once I have my gym clothes on,
38:17
I feel really dumb not driving to the gym.
38:19
And then when I drive to the gym,
38:21
I'm like, well, if I'm here, I got to go in.
38:23
And so it's the same concept of like one step
38:24
will lead you to the next being a good communicator's
38:26
what's going to lead to becoming a top producer.
38:28
Putting on your gym clothes is what's going to lead
38:30
to go into the gym, going to the gym is going to lead
38:32
to the muscles and the fitness.
38:34
And so I think whatever way you want to view that,
38:36
I think like having really big audacious goals
38:38
of where you want to go and what you want to be,
38:39
I think it's a really good thing.
38:41
But also the small actionable steps to get there.
38:44
If you don't have those, you will never get to that goal.
38:46
And so I think like, yeah, to your point,
38:48
if you without becoming a master communicator,
38:51
it's going to be very, very difficult
38:53
to ever reach any other level other than that.
38:55
And so I think that's a great way for people to focus
38:58
on what is the thing that I'm going to be a master communicator?
39:02
And what I even like, what I want to be known for
39:04
or how do I, you know, like that being the box,
39:07
I think is far more important than just saying
39:08
you want to be a top producer.
39:10
Yeah, yeah, love that.
39:12
Let's talk for a second because you had,
39:13
you had mentioned this earlier about, you know,
39:16
I don't know that you mentioned rocket
39:17
or red fins specifically, but you've been loud about that.
39:22
And that's a signal for something bigger, obviously.
39:25
And so like, what do you think most loan officers
39:28
still don't understand about what that means
39:31
for our industry and for them in their local markets?
39:35
I think that what the biggest shift that people
39:38
maybe haven't understood is like the way I break this down
39:41
is to like, we're in, I'd call it like phase three.
39:43
We're going into phase three.
39:44
And so when we look at the mortgage industry,
39:46
if we chop it up into three different phases,
39:48
phase one was like traditional, you know,
39:51
mortgages built on relationships, you talk to people,
39:54
you connect with your sphere, you do a good job,
39:56
that's how you build your business.
39:58
And the value wasn't just doing a good job.
40:00
That was how you built your business.
40:02
And then version two of that was when online lenders came
40:05
to play as the rockets and Quicken was prior
40:08
to the rocket, Quicken owns rocket.
40:10
When Quicken came in, like our value was now in fulfillment
40:14
because the one thing Quicken couldn't do as good as us
40:17
was like fulfill loans.
40:18
They were very notorious for missing closings.
40:21
And they basically had your LO
40:23
was like a call center operator in Pittsburgh, right?
40:25
So now our competence was all, our value
40:28
was all on our fulfillment abilities.
40:31
That is what's changing right now
40:33
that I don't think people are quite aware of with what rocket
40:37
and rate and all these massive direct lenders
40:39
are going to be able to do is their biggest weakness
40:42
has been in getting a loan done.
40:45
That's the thing AI is going to impact the quickest
40:48
in our industry is fulfillment.
40:50
We're going to be able to put a deal together,
40:51
we're going to be able to underwrite it,
40:53
we're going to be able to process it in minutes
40:57
if not, right, hours if not minutes.
41:00
So we need to now as loan officers,
41:02
like what is our value?
41:03
It's not in fulfillment anymore
41:05
because that part is going to be taking care of.
41:07
It's in the part that Quicken's arguably done very well,
41:10
which is like the marketing, acquisition, customer acquisition.
41:15
And so now the playing field I think is going to get more
41:18
leveled as time goes on,
41:20
meaning like our rates are all going to be very comparable,
41:22
our fulfillment is all going to be very comparable.
41:25
So where do I go?
41:26
Like whoever has the best brand?
41:28
So that's why I think our value as loan officers now
41:34
to our companies and to ourselves is customer acquisition.
41:36
The best way to acquire customers is to market,
41:39
not just sales, but like market yourself.
41:42
And so that's one of the biggest things
41:44
I think people aren't really aware of
41:46
with the shift that's happening.
41:48
And it's happening fast.
41:49
Yeah.
41:50
I think it's happening faster than some people are ready for.
41:53
That's not like a fear statement.
41:54
That's just like if you haven't been really paying attention
41:57
to this, like this is important.
42:00
Well, how would you say that today's consumer has changed
42:03
even in the last couple of years?
42:05
Like AI has radically changed.
42:07
Now our consumers have the same access to information
42:10
in the palm of their hands.
42:12
So how do you believe our consumers has changed?
42:14
And how should we try to shift for meeting them
42:18
where they're at now?
42:20
I think there's a few things.
42:21
And I was talking to a guy that's on Link's spot, John,
42:25
about this like a week ago.
42:26
He had a deal with a client that he had done a couple deals
42:29
for in the past.
42:30
And he's like, didn't they're asking me questions
42:32
where I'm like, why are you even asking about these things?
42:35
And he ends up losing this deal.
42:39
And basically long story short, this person,
42:44
which everyone does now, I would do the same thing,
42:46
is going to AI of like, is this a good deal?
42:49
And they're taking a picture of their LE
42:51
and throwing it in there and they're getting analyzed.
42:53
And so what used to happen was it was us
42:56
against other lenders, right?
42:57
You would take your LE to another lender,
43:00
bring it back to me, and then you're asking questions
43:02
where I'm like, where are you asking me these, Katie?
43:04
Right.
43:05
Well, how many points in, where did you get this?
43:08
Oh, okay, now it's me versus the southern lender.
43:10
And like, okay, this rate is lower,
43:12
but they're charging your points
43:14
and you don't know about them.
43:15
And it's us versus them.
43:16
And that's always been the hardest part of our job, right?
43:18
It's like, no, I'm trying to tell you the truth.
43:20
This person's trying to get your deal.
43:21
And that's where we take it really personal.
43:23
And I think that's the hardest part of being a loan officer
43:25
is when you are trying to do what is right
43:27
and you lose it when somebody else is doing something like that.
43:30
But now it's all under just like us versus other LEs.
43:32
It's us versus the robots.
43:34
And as good as AI is, it still hallucinates a lot.
43:37
And there's a lot of times where it's saying something like,
43:39
oh, your best bet is to be in an FHA loan.
43:42
It's like, dude, no, no, no, you're putting 20% down.
43:45
You have perfect, like I'm telling you,
43:47
you're in the right product.
43:49
But some of these people are now trusting these robots
43:51
more than they're trusting us as the actual service provider
43:56
because those same robots have helped me with a lot of things.
43:59
So if it's saying FHA, like I'm not,
44:01
like I'm going with what this is saying, right?
44:03
I'm just crazy because I heard a stat yesterday
44:06
that people are 77% likely to trust,
44:12
as likely to trust their robot,
44:14
like whatever AI tool as they are human.
44:18
So like, and that, you know, I don't know where that was
44:20
a year ago, I'm sure obviously it's a lot more today
44:23
than it was then.
44:24
But like exactly what you just said,
44:26
the fact that somebody will have as much absolute confidence
44:30
and trust in chat GBT,
44:32
as they would the 30 year season, you know,
44:34
mortgage advisor says a lot about that.
44:39
A ton, and it's not, it's not un like justified, right?
44:44
Like, I know you use it much as I do,
44:46
like this thing is medically the stuff
44:49
that it's done that doctors don't spot that I'm like,
44:51
dang, I trust this more than doctors
44:52
because it's, I'm now going to my doctor's telling them
44:54
what's wrong based on what my little robot's telling me, right?
44:57
Or when I did my taxes, this thing legitimately saved me
45:01
like 24 grand on taxes that my CPA missed
45:04
because I uploaded every single bank statement
45:07
and it finds things that they don't.
45:09
So then there's things where it's like,
45:10
okay, I've lost now trust in my CPA, unfortunately,
45:13
because this,
45:15
but it's true, right?
45:19
Like, and so now if my CPA says something,
45:21
I'm fact checking against this,
45:22
but AI is still wrong a lot of times.
45:25
And typically when it is, it's missing a lot of context.
45:27
And so that's where hallucinates is,
45:28
it starts to fill in gaps of what it believes
45:30
that context should be.
45:32
And so when someone's, you know,
45:34
asking like, which alone is best for me,
45:36
it doesn't know enough about your, your situation
45:38
unless you've prompted it there.
45:40
And a lot of consumers aren't competent yet enough
45:43
to know how heavily you would need to prompt it
45:46
for it to give you an accurate.
45:48
And so that's where like a loan officer,
45:50
like your entire statement is in front of it,
45:52
like your entire situation,
45:54
like they are going to have that edge
45:56
until you train it.
45:57
Well, I think that's where, you know,
45:59
your humanity comes back into place, right?
46:02
Like I, the example I always give is, you know,
46:05
AI can give you good scenarios perhaps,
46:08
but it doesn't know how to speak to the widow
46:11
who just lost her husband is now having to figure out
46:13
if she should sell her home that, you know,
46:15
her and her husband built, raised her family in
46:17
because she needs to consolidate debt
46:20
or it's too much of a maintenance, right?
46:22
Like chat GBD or, you know,
46:23
could give a very sterile answer,
46:26
but we all know that buying a home
46:28
is one of the most emotional things, processes that you do.
46:32
It's tied to money and there's so many moving parts.
46:35
So push back on that Katie.
46:37
Have you, and most people that are using AI consistently,
46:40
have you ever talked to it like a therapist?
46:43
Oh, yes.
46:44
I mean, I would say like it sometimes I'm like,
46:47
this thing sees me better than any human could.
46:49
And so we, we do set, you know, like,
46:51
oh, this will never replace human connection.
46:53
Like, their piss is the first one going
46:55
because I love talking to this thing about, right?
46:57
It sees me.
46:58
No, yes.
46:59
And it's more private too.
47:01
So with friends with, we're not comfortable
47:03
asking those questions.
47:05
You know, I think that's why people go to AI
47:08
is they feel a lot of shame or guilt in, you know,
47:11
whether they're financial history or what have you.
47:14
Yes, I have had many moments where I'm like,
47:16
that almost made me cry because I feel so seen.
47:19
Well, and so I think the takeaway though,
47:21
and this is, this is the really important part is,
47:23
I think it's an and not an or, right?
47:26
Like I don't, it's human or AI.
47:28
Like I don't think we're getting to that being the,
47:31
the two competitors, right?
47:33
In situation where what, what changed with customers,
47:36
what we're talking about is like, how have customers changed?
47:38
Like that is a battle right now,
47:39
as it's our voice versus this AI one.
47:42
And then if there's come like confrontation,
47:44
that person saw to go somewhere else to get the loan.
47:46
And that went to another home officer.
47:48
So like AI caused you to lose that deal,
47:50
but you didn't lose it to AI.
47:51
It just went to the bank that I was like,
47:52
sure, we'll put you in an FHA with, right?
47:55
So I think it becomes the end.
47:57
And what we're seeing though is that if AI keeps progressing,
48:01
like we're taught out to where now there is perfect alignment.
48:04
When you say what's the longest best for me,
48:05
it will just spit out the right answer.
48:07
And then as the LL, I'm like, yes, right?
48:09
You still need to get that fulfilled somewhere.
48:11
And so the LL could go away because fulfillment is gone, right?
48:15
But if we get paid for customer acquisition
48:17
because now every bank has AI,
48:21
I think still want to make money.
48:22
They want the loans, okay?
48:23
So they can try to buy stadiums like Quicken Can
48:26
or they can pay me as a loan officer
48:28
a commission for acquiring customers.
48:30
Which is like, cool.
48:31
Cost me nothing unless you get me a deal.
48:33
So that's where it's like,
48:34
we're not competing against like me or robot, it's an end.
48:37
It's like, cool, I have the same resources.
48:39
I'll be able to close your deal.
48:41
We have AI underwriting.
48:42
We'll be able to underwrite it in an hour.
48:43
Like you'll have your money by the end of the day.
48:45
Whatever that looks like.
48:46
Right.
48:47
Our value goes into customer acquisition.
48:48
Did we build a brand?
48:49
And then that's where that other element
48:51
like you're talking about is like,
48:52
well, I'm gonna go with Trevor because I trust him.
48:54
And I know he has a family as well.
48:56
And so when I say I want this place for my kids
48:58
to build my future, like it may be I'm getting,
49:00
like he will have my back.
49:02
I trust him.
49:02
I want to go through this process with him
49:04
and my trustee AI robot that makes you feel great.
49:08
Right.
49:08
And I mean, just like you, you know,
49:10
just like people will bring in Ellie
49:12
from another lender to get a second opinion.
49:14
I mean, maybe you even build that into your verbiage
49:16
of like, hey, what does chat GPT told you?
49:18
Let's talk about that, right?
49:20
Like, bring it into the conversation.
49:23
All right, let's final question.
49:25
If you have a loan officer listening right now
49:27
and they feel like, okay, a lot of this resonates,
49:31
but I feel pretty invisible.
49:33
I don't have a strong foundation.
49:35
Like what's the next thing, right?
49:37
Like it's easy to talk about where they're at
49:39
and where they should be,
49:40
but you really bring in the simplicity of like,
49:43
okay, what's the next thing?
49:44
So what would you say is the next thing
49:45
that they should look at?
49:47
I think that like obviously if you're not creating content,
49:52
I think we're at a point where people are really trying
49:54
to do that, you know, like enough now
49:57
that that's something they should do.
49:59
But it is intimidating.
50:01
And so I think the least intimidating thing to do
50:03
is just share a simple story about something
50:06
that happened to you and what your thoughts were on that thing.
50:09
And when I say simple, I mean like crazy simple
50:12
and just watch what happens
50:14
because it's very low risk to just be like,
50:15
man, I was in why last week with my son
50:19
and seeing how excited he was to go to the beach.
50:23
And I'm looking at like the sun and the, you know,
50:25
like the escape from work.
50:27
And he's just really excited
50:28
because he gets to play in the sand,
50:30
which I'm like, they're sand and Reno.
50:32
We need to go like he probably would have been
50:34
just as happy in Reno.
50:36
Made me realize like the thing that he liked from there
50:39
was just the fact that he got to play in the dirt
50:41
and how I needed this, you know, warmer climate
50:44
and escapism and all of this.
50:45
And I just made me think about how easy it is
50:50
to be happy when you're a kid and how we lose that.
50:51
And so that's my goal is to try and embrace more of that.
50:55
That's awesome.
50:56
If you just, right, like just just something
50:59
that happened and what your thoughts were about it,
51:00
you have a, as a parent, there's a million of those
51:02
where you watch your kids do something,
51:03
you have some takeaways, you're at a game
51:05
or you're just driving, you saw something,
51:08
the amount of connection you create
51:09
with a piece of content like that unmatched.
51:13
So if there's one step, I would say that's a great one
51:15
for someone to go do.
51:16
Start to write a story down.
51:18
And I mean, obviously they need to,
51:20
they need to contact you about Link Spot.
51:22
So we're gonna put some stuff in the notes,
51:25
all the details of where you can connect with Trevor.
51:27
But give me like the 30 second pitch,
51:29
talk to us really quickly about Link Spot.
51:31
Why should somebody be on Link Spot?
51:33
So Link Spot is a all in one platform.
51:36
So basically your entire marketing engine that you need
51:39
with also my team actually helping you execute.
51:42
So giving the tools is one piece,
51:44
but a lot of times people get them
51:46
and they're like, what do I do now?
51:47
The way that we built this is basically
51:49
the team that builds all of my marketing,
51:50
every webinar I do, every funnel that I've built
51:53
is the same team building for all of the users on Link Spot.
51:55
So you get to build whatever you want
51:57
that they're to support you in creating this stuff.
51:59
I do coaching calls once a month
52:01
with everybody on the platform
52:02
to help you create content to drive people in the funnels
52:04
or even if you don't want to make content,
52:06
like we have users crushing using our email software
52:09
in these pre-written campaigns that God has passed clients
52:12
and people are getting a ton of wins.
52:14
And so basically I always like,
52:16
this is what the future proofing your business.
52:18
I think Link Spot is the ideal thing to have
52:22
in your tool of your belt tool belt.
52:27
Your tool belt?
52:28
Yeah, that's the thing that's going to
52:30
future proofing business.
52:31
Oh, well, thanks for joining us today.
52:34
We'll put all of the information in the show notes
52:35
so you can connect with Trevor, learn about Link Spot.
52:39
Trevor, thanks for joining.
52:40
So find a connect in just to hear your story.
52:42
That was a blast.
52:43
Thanks, Katie.