Latest / eCommerce Podcast / How to Build a Customer Experience That Actually Converts in eCommerce

Transcript

How to Build a Customer Experience That Actually Converts in eCommerce · eCommerce Podcast

• 0:00
  Matt Edmundson: Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with
• 0:03
  me, your host, Matt Edmundson.
• 0:04
  Now this is a show all about helping you deliver e-commerce.
• 0:08
  Wow.
• 0:09
  And to do that today I'm chatting with a fellow Brit
• 0:12
  Tony Conte from Brave Agency, and we are gonna be talking
• 0:17
  about marketing everything to do with e-commerce marketing,
• 0:21
  which I know is a topic we're all interesting 'cause
• 0:23
  why would we not be right?
• 0:25
  Uh, we all want to know how to market our businesses.
• 0:28
  Better.
• 0:29
  So make sure you stay tuned for that.
• 0:30
  Grab your notebooks, grab your pens.
• 0:31
  'cause you're definitely gonna want them.
• 0:33
  Now whilst you are doing that, if you haven't done
• 0:35
  so already, make sure you sign up for our newsletter.
• 0:39
  Yes.
• 0:40
  'cause every week we are sending out some amazing stuff.
• 0:44
  I. Tips and tricks from the podcast with some of
• 0:46
  the bits and bobs as well.
• 0:47
  But all the show notes, all the links, they're also in there.
• 0:50
  Uh, and so you just get it straight to your
• 0:51
  inbox totally for free.
• 0:52
  So you can get a hold of that at ecommercepodcast.net.
• 0:56
  So make sure you do, and I will see you over there.
• 0:59
  Now, before we get into the conversation, I just want to
• 1:02
  give a little bit of a shout out to my mate, Darren Hickey, uh,
• 1:07
  who connects us from Fellowship.
• 1:08
  If you don't, if you're a regular to the show, you
• 1:10
  may recognize the name.
• 1:11
  Darren was on it back in November.
• 1:13
  Uh, and we talked about WooCommerce.
• 1:16
  He's a bit of a WooCommerce expert.
• 1:18
  Uh, and so Darren introduced both Tony and myself.
• 1:22
  And so Tony is here because of Darren?
• 1:24
  Yes, he is.
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  So just say thanks to Darren 'cause Darren's a legend.
• 1:27
  Thanks Darren.
• 1:27
  Uh, there you go.
• 1:29
  Thanks Darren.
• 1:30
  Uh, let's meet, uh, Tony, the founder of Brave Agency,
• 1:35
  a digital pioneer in brand.
• 1:36
  Marketing and e-commerce since the mid nineties
• 1:40
  did a decade evens exist?
• 1:42
  We don't know, do we?
• 1:43
  Uh, in 2000, he launched Brave from his garage with zero
• 1:47
  clients and a big vision, an integrated agency where
• 1:50
  creativity, tech, and strategy unite for client success.
• 1:54
  Today, brave turns clicks into loyal customers and
• 1:58
  helps ambitious brands push boundaries and thrive.
• 2:02
  And you know what, Tony, the thing that I love is, you've
• 2:04
  been doing this since the mid.
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  Nineties now.
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  I started my little journey around 1997, about a year
• 2:13
  before I got married.
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  Um, ah, and so, and I started in e-commerce in 2002.
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  So, uh, I often referred to myself as
• 2:20
  an e-commerce dinosaur.
• 2:22
  I. No,
• 2:23
  Tony Conte: not at all.
• 2:23
  I don't The dinosaur we Not the dinosaur.
• 2:26
  We were, we were the pioneers.
• 2:28
  That's true.
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  If it wasn't for us, then uh, there would be no internet.
• 2:32
  No, not no internet, but commerce,
• 2:36
  Matt Edmundson: no.
• 2:36
  I'm gonna take the internet.
• 2:37
  If it wasn't for me and you tiny, there
• 2:39
  would be no internet.
• 2:40
  Everybody.
• 2:40
  You're, you're welcome.
• 2:41
  Yeah.
• 2:42
  That's all I can say.
• 2:43
  Tony Conte: We've both, we've both seen the.com
• 2:44
  bubble, haven't we?
• 2:45
  Matt Edmundson: We saw it.
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  We saw it burst.
• 2:47
  We did.
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  It came and it went really quickly and everyone's
• 2:50
  like, what is going on?
• 2:52
  Uh, uh, to be fair, we've seen everything.
• 2:54
  I mean, there was no mob mobile phones.
• 2:55
  You didn't have to worry about mobile commerce.
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  There was basically, you just had a website and you can, it
• 3:02
  took us a while to even figure out email marketing, you know?
• 3:05
  Exactly.
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  It's like what?
• 3:07
  Yeah.
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  Google just seemed to pick you up because it did.
• 3:10
  Yeah.
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  And then it was a few years later, Google AdWords came in.
• 3:13
  So, I mean, all these things, you've sort of seen them come
• 3:15
  and a lot of things you've seen come and go, really?
• 3:17
  So it's, it is cool that you've been around, you know,
• 3:20
  a, a, a, uh, as they say, and you, you've obviously,
• 3:24
  you must have enjoyed it.
• 3:26
  Tony Conte: Yes, it's, has its ups and downs.
• 3:28
  Um, been a lot of changes, a lot of challenges along the way.
• 3:31
  Mm-hmm.
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  Um, but the way that everything, I'd say just the way that
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  people interact with, you know, online channels, uh, just has
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  changed so much over the years.
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  Yeah.
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  Um, but that means that you have to be kind of thinking
• 3:46
  about what the next way, shape, or form of, of a,
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  of a website should be, or in terms of how they're
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  gonna in interact with that, that, um, advert, et cetera.
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  Um, the fundamentals are still there.
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  You've gotta attract, engage, and per, you know, effectively
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  persuade them to purchase.
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  It's just that the, the, the, the speed at which
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  now we can develop.
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  Um.
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  Marketing in general.
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  Online is, uh, is just a, you know, it is just, it, it, it
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  literally, it is too quick.
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  Yeah.
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  For, I think, I think the actual techno, I think we're
• 4:19
  finding that the technology is, although it's helping us to
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  kind of speed up the processes and the analytics et et cetera,
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  it, it's, it's even faster now.
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  And obviously with ai it's, it's, yeah, it's balloons
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  now to a, a crazy level.
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  So, um, yeah, it's exciting.
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  It's certainly, um.
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  I'd say it's not for the faint hearted, for sure.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Um, but yeah, it's, it's been enjoyable.
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  He says, says
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  Matt Edmundson: secret gr.
• 4:46
  Yeah.
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  It's funny, isn't it?
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  Because I, as I'm talking, I'm getting all nostalgic now, but
• 4:51
  as I'm, as we're talking Tony, I'm kind of thinking, you know
• 4:54
  what, when, when I launched my first website back in 2002,
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  marketing was literally launching the website, right.
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  And search engines.
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  Managed to pick it up.
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  And there was ma there weren't that many, uh,
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  websites back then.
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  So you, you tended to get on page one.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And people were, were sort of, they would buy it and
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  then they would call to make sure you were legitimate
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  because they, you know, they felt twitchy about giving you
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  their credit card details.
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  But marketing, um, in some respects, as we know it
• 5:27
  now, didn't exist that whole, you know, the whole
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  realm of digital marketing.
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  But what did exist was the fundamentals, as you say,
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  so of old school principles.
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  The website had to attract people, it had to make sense,
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  you know, uh, you had to deliver a great service.
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  For those people to come back and buy again.
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  These things have always been sort of timeless, haven't they?
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  Even sort of pre-internet.
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  Yeah.
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  And uh, one of the things that sort of strikes me about a lot
• 5:55
  of e-commerce entrepreneurs, a lot of conversations I have
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  in essence I can summarize in a single statement, is
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  that a lot of people are looking for the silver bullet.
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  Like, if I just pull this one lever, like if I spend
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  10 grand on Facebook ads or if I do TikTok or whatever
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  it is, you know, whatever the latest thing is, I'm gonna
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  pull that lever and it's gonna make me a millionaire.
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  Right.
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  Do you, do you get a lot of these inquiries?
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  Tony Conte: Uh, yeah.
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  A hell of a lot.
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  Um, we get a, yeah.
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  I think generally speaking, they think one
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  channel will save it all.
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  And, and, um, the reality of it is, is that it's, it.
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  There's gotta be, there's, there's gotta
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  be about 10 channels.
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  You could, there's 10 levers you can pull.
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  That's just, you know, um, but each one works.
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  In its own way, but has contributes to
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  each one, basically.
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  Yeah.
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  You can't run, as you know, you can run paid advertising, that's
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  fine, but if you put your ads in one basket, then your e-commerce
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  brand, it is only as worth as much as a paid ad campaign.
• 6:55
  Yeah.
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  If you're not generating content or social proofing,
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  SEO, et cetera, you know, I personally wouldn't buy.
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  An e-commerce brand, if they didn't have organic
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  traffic sales attribution attributed to SEO.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Because anybody could, any, anybody can throw money at it.
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  Yeah.
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  So.
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  We, they'll come in and say, okay, we, we need to do TikTok.
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  Well, yeah, you need to do TikTok, but where's the brand?
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Where's the positioning?
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  Where's the social proof?
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  And is the product fit for fit for the audience?
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  You know, so there's, I think it's become, yeah.
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  I dunno if that answers a question, but Yes.
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  Lots of times.
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  Can we just do SEO No, you can't just do seo or can you
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  do, you know, can, can we just do, um, TikTok shop and forget
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  about any, anything else?
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  Kind of, it's possible, but there's a ceiling
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  on that as well.
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  So, um, I think it's just got a lot more, um, uh, mixed.
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  You know, it's now on, you know, multi-channel, I'd say.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  You can't, you know, you, that's most of the
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  conversations now are, we're running five channels.
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  We think one or two are potentially not
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  working, or we're leaving money on the table.
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  Um, and that's where, you know, we would get involved and say,
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  okay, let's look at the numbers.
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  Let's look at the audience.
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  Let's look at the, the attribution, make sure
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  everything's, you know, fir on all cylinders.
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  Um, but normally you can't.
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  There's no silver, no silver bullet.
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  Now there's no silver bullet.
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  Matt Edmundson: No, I, I, I would agree.
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  I think you, you get to a stage where you hear stories
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  of a somebody on YouTube who managed to pull off a
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  miracle and then they do a YouTube video about it.
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  Tony Conte: Yeah.
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  Matt Edmundson: Um, but I, I think for most people,
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  I. Actually, you are right.
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  That that digital marketing now is, is, is evolved and is
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  evolving to such an extent that Yeah, it is impossible, I think
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  for, for a solo entrepreneur who is doing e-commerce to
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  keep up with what the changes are and to keep it with a,
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  like if I was just running my e-commerce business,
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  we have a team of people.
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  Yeah, but how would I find the time to.
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  Do the SEO to do the blogs, the content, the social
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  media, make the videos, um, do the, run the paid ads,
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  make sure my email marketing campaigns are up to date.
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  Do the abandoned cart flows.
• 9:15
  Do you know what I mean?
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  Uh, do my silly dance on TikTok.
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  I appreciate that's not just TikTok.
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  Now I'm being facetious.
• 9:20
  I've done, we've all done them to be fair, but do
• 9:24
  you know what I mean?
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  There's so much going on.
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  Yeah.
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  Um, that it is, I think it's almost impossible
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  now to try and to try and.
• 9:34
  To, to keep up with it as a, as a solo entrepreneur, you,
• 9:37
  you, you genuinely need help.
• 9:39
  I think.
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  Tony Conte: I think, um, the key is prioritization
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  because you could just go at all of those, you know?
• 9:45
  Mm. All 20 elements that you just mentioned, but
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  it's prioritizing and putting it in an order.
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  You know, I think that's the key really.
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  'cause there's two, you know, and, and looking at
• 9:54
  every single channel and reviewing actually what's,
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  what's the potential return on investment from that channel?
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  And can I put the investment from that channel
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  into the next channel?
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Or, you know, and then dial everything up.
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  That's where, that's where I've seen most e-commerce
• 10:09
  businesses that are thriving, is that they've, they've had
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  a clear, um, analysis of all the channels, all the tactics.
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  Then gone with quite, quite a methodical path there.
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  Yeah.
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  In terms of how they reinvest, et cetera.
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  I mean, some of our early clients from sort of from
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  2000, 2005, they're really early and they went from
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  mail order, you know, ordering stuff in magazines.
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  Cutting all the magazine spend and saying, right, what's
• 10:39
  the internet all about, Tony?
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  And they said, oh, I was thinking, oh God.
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  Okay.
• 10:42
  So basically it's an online catalog, you know?
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  Um, and okay, well how do I, I'm number one in all the
• 10:47
  magazines 'cause I'm spending, you know, 20,000 pounds on
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  a, on a, every single month.
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  And mags then was quite, quite, quite significant.
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  Yeah.
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  Um.
• 10:56
  The ones that kind of not, I'm not saying like they
• 10:59
  listened, but the ones that actually started thinking
• 11:01
  about this is, this is, this looks like a potential.
• 11:03
  This, this is where my mail order's gonna go.
• 11:06
  Yeah.
• 11:06
  They literally, they literally launched their websites in a
• 11:10
  catalog online point of view.
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  It wasn't actually commerce at that point necessarily.
• 11:14
  It was all about getting online.
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  And they would get the phone calls, get, keep
• 11:17
  getting phone calls from it.
• 11:19
  Um, and they soon realized that the more they put
• 11:22
  into paid ads, it was like.
• 11:24
  The more exposure they were getting in magazines.
• 11:26
  It's the same principle.
• 11:28
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
• 11:28
  Tony Conte: Um, that, that, that worked.
• 11:30
  And, and don't forget, uh, Google ad PPC then was
• 11:34
  impression based from 2000 to 2000 and it was cheap.
• 11:38
  Yeah, exactly.
• 11:39
  And it, yeah.
• 11:40
  Not like it is now, but yeah.
• 11:42
  I mean, the whole, the, the whole kind of click,
• 11:44
  you know, pay per click.
• 11:46
  Yeah.
• 11:46
  Didn't really, I don't think it came in until about two.
• 11:49
  I think it was something like 2002, 2004, maybe,
• 11:51
  something like that.
• 11:52
  But it was all impression based before then.
• 11:54
  Um.
• 11:55
  But I think it's, it's, it's the fundamentals.
• 11:59
  I keep saying it, you know, to to, to various kind of
• 12:02
  brands that come on board, especially challenger brands.
• 12:04
  Fundamentals of advertising hasn't really changed.
• 12:06
  It's just the channel by channel.
• 12:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:08
  And prioritizing.
• 12:09
  And prioritizing the numbers as well.
• 12:12
  So
• 12:13
  Matt Edmundson: let's talk about that.
• 12:14
  Um, how would you go about prioritizing?
• 12:16
  So here I am, I'm, I'm an overworked, uh oh, overwhelmed
• 12:21
  is probably a better word.
• 12:22
  Um, e-commerce.
• 12:24
  Founder.
• 12:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:25
  Um, it's all, it's, it's okay.
• 12:28
  But, you know, I feel like my life is non-existent
• 12:30
  in, in many ways.
• 12:31
  How do I prioritize, how do I look at what I'm
• 12:34
  doing and going right.
• 12:35
  This is, this is the best way to prioritize my marketing.
• 12:40
  Tony Conte: I, I guess, I guess obviously, you
• 12:42
  know, we can't control the operational side of a business.
• 12:45
  We can, we can, we can forecast sales increases
• 12:49
  so they don't buckle under the, under the load.
• 12:52
  That's one element.
• 12:53
  But in terms of prioritizing, you know, there's quite a
• 12:56
  few that we've met, you know, that are seven days a week,
• 12:59
  they're in the business.
• 13:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:00
  They've got, you know, mm-hmm.
• 13:02
  Um, they've got maybe 10, maybe 20 staff, something like that.
• 13:06
  They're constantly in the business all the time.
• 13:09
  Um, introducing automation when it comes to, um, a lot of
• 13:14
  their activities is, is key.
• 13:16
  Yeah.
• 13:16
  Um, and helping them, helping them through.
• 13:23
  I mean the tech, there's the technical sides of a
• 13:25
  website, so you automate a lot of the activity as well.
• 13:28
  You know, email automation is one.
• 13:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:30
  So they don't have to do anything manually there.
• 13:32
  Um, we take away a lot of the stress in terms of, um,
• 13:35
  whether it's content, you know, to content strategy
• 13:38
  and actually delivering that, that strategy for them.
• 13:41
  So the key is to kind of work out what their strengths are.
• 13:45
  And work alongside their them or their existing Yeah.
• 13:49
  Um, teams really.
• 13:51
  Um, 'cause it is tough to kind of pull away and give
• 13:53
  everything to an agency.
• 13:54
  And we never say that to a client.
• 13:56
  We never say, I don't think anybody should say like,
• 13:58
  here's everything crack on.
• 13:59
  I think it's the kind of understanding what they should
• 14:01
  and shouldn't be doing in house.
• 14:03
  Yeah.
• 14:03
  At that given moment in time, I'm, and I'm always
• 14:06
  one for actually having the conversation to say like, we
• 14:08
  wanna get you to the X level.
• 14:10
  We want you to be in the position where you can actually.
• 14:14
  Get your own team to do X, Y, and Z. We still wanna be
• 14:16
  here, we still wanna be helping you run the, the strategy and
• 14:18
  the real technical pieces.
• 14:20
  But we see you kind of growing your content team
• 14:22
  because I think the, the, the, and I, it's a slightly
• 14:25
  off tangent, but content has always been king for many,
• 14:29
  many years before I was born.
• 14:31
  You know, it's always been about.
• 14:33
  Um, that's where advertising and engagement comes from.
• 14:37
  The, the, the creativity, the content, and it still
• 14:40
  is to this present day.
• 14:41
  Um, and brands need to bring a lot of that in-house.
• 14:46
  Um, comes an overhead.
• 14:47
  I. But the control of that, it makes our lives
• 14:50
  easier as agencies as well, that we run the strategy.
• 14:53
  We, we will share that, that tactic with them and, and come
• 14:57
  up with a content strategy.
• 14:59
  But everything comes from that content.
• 15:00
  SEO comes from content, paid ads comes from, from content
• 15:04
  as well, meta, et cetera.
• 15:06
  Um, digital pr, it's all content driven.
• 15:09
  Um, we see a lot of brands bringing that in-house,
• 15:11
  and I, I applaud that.
• 15:13
  I'd say I'd encourage it more and more so, um.
• 15:17
  But there's no silver bullet when it comes to, you know,
• 15:20
  how do we, how do we de-stress a, an e-commerce entrepreneur?
• 15:25
  Well, they, they're either surviving.
• 15:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:27
  Because they, they, some of them, well, a lot of them
• 15:30
  have launched post covid thinking they can mm-hmm.
• 15:33
  Sustain that level of revenue.
• 15:36
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
• 15:36
  Tony Conte: Um, and that's where we give 'em a bit of a reality
• 15:39
  check in terms of, okay, you're wasting time in that area.
• 15:41
  That's, that's not that, that, that's not focus on that area.
• 15:44
  Let's go for the, uh.
• 15:46
  Low hanging fruit, as they say.
• 15:48
  Um, and the quick wins.
• 15:50
  Yeah.
• 15:51
  And I, I dare say that, but there are quick wins.
• 15:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:54
  There are quick, there still are quick wins.
• 15:56
  And that's a, that comes back down to prioritization.
• 15:59
  Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.
• 16:00
  Tony Conte: Yeah.
• 16:00
  I
• 16:00
  Matt Edmundson: find that actually that, um.
• 16:05
  Depending on who you talk to, depends on
• 16:07
  where the quick wins are.
• 16:08
  Yeah.
• 16:08
  So there's no, I can't write a book and say, these are your top
• 16:10
  10 quick wins, because it, every business is different, right?
• 16:13
  Yeah.
• 16:13
  Every business is unique.
• 16:14
  Um, but I, I could, I could quite easily write
• 16:19
  a book, go, these are the principles of marketing.
• 16:21
  Read through this and the quick wins will become obvious.
• 16:24
  That, that kind of thing.
• 16:25
  It's, um, which I, I, I, I think is, is probably a, a
• 16:30
  more successful route forward.
• 16:33
  Um.
• 16:34
  But I like how you, you talked about, figure out what your
• 16:37
  strengths are because I, I have this, um, I have a manifesto,
• 16:42
  Tony, because I like manifestos.
• 16:45
  Actually, it's just a fancy name for a bit of, a bit
• 16:47
  of writing that I did once.
• 16:49
  Um, where I, I liken most e-commerce entrepreneurs, I call
• 16:53
  them digital Davids, you know, the David and Goliath story.
• 16:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:56
  And I, I, I paint Amazon and Walmart as the Goliath
• 16:59
  because, you know, I, I can and make them the bad guy.
• 17:03
  And David won the battle with Goliath.
• 17:05
  'cause he played to his own strengths.
• 17:07
  Yeah.
• 17:07
  And, and, and one of the questions I get asked, you
• 17:10
  know, a lot, and I'm, I I, I appreciate on the podcast,
• 17:14
  I use this for, I get asked a lot of questions and you
• 17:15
  can you, but this one I do get asked a lot is like, how
• 17:17
  do I, how do I beat Amazon?
• 17:19
  Right?
• 17:20
  Um, and I think actually you've gotta play to your
• 17:23
  strengths is is the answer.
• 17:25
  You know, you've gotta, you've got, 'cause the one
• 17:27
  thing Amazon can't be is you.
• 17:30
  No, they can't be you and your brand.
• 17:33
  Hmm.
• 17:34
  They can't be your, your positioning.
• 17:36
  They can't be your brand.
• 17:38
  Uh, what you stand for and, and all that sort of thing.
• 17:41
  They can't, they, they don't have your values, they don't
• 17:43
  have your tone of voice.
• 17:45
  They don't have your ability to tell a story.
• 17:47
  Yeah.
• 17:47
  You know, they're just a big machine which sells stuff.
• 17:51
  Yeah.
• 17:51
  But you've got stuff that's got a story and so how do you,
• 17:54
  how do you bring that out?
• 17:56
  Um, and so I like what you say, you know, play to
• 17:58
  your strengths and, and.
• 17:59
  Everyone has to think about content, um,
• 18:02
  Tony Conte: and brand, you're just hitting nail
• 18:03
  on the head as well.
• 18:04
  Is the, is I I, I've, I've seen a lot of e-commerce brands now
• 18:08
  build, building their brand more so than ever before.
• 18:11
  So building the personality, getting that personality
• 18:14
  in the forefront.
• 18:15
  A huge amount of kind of brands that, um, I'd say
• 18:20
  90% of them have come to us and actually they've come
• 18:24
  to us thinking, oh, I need.
• 18:26
  Paid ads, I need meta, et cetera.
• 18:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:28
  And we've like, no, you need to get your story.
• 18:32
  Yeah.
• 18:32
  Actually above, I'll call it above the fold.
• 18:36
  'cause that was a thing.
• 18:37
  Yeah.
• 18:37
  But you know, it's not in, you know, they're not
• 18:39
  selling their story and Yeah.
• 18:41
  Um, there's so much more kind of engagement, um, when it comes
• 18:44
  to, uh, consumers these days.
• 18:46
  Customers these days that they want us, they wanna know
• 18:48
  about the founder of a Yeah.
• 18:50
  X brand that Yeah.
• 18:51
  Is, yeah.
• 18:52
  That came from such and such fashion brand originally,
• 18:55
  and they stand for X, Y, and Z. Um, a lot of this
• 18:58
  information is hidden on websites sometimes, especially
• 19:01
  with the independent brands.
• 19:03
  They don't think that actually I need to bring that to the, to
• 19:06
  the, to the top, um, as a story.
• 19:08
  So, so once you've bought into it.
• 19:11
  You are kind of, you're, you're bought into their story.
• 19:12
  You bought into them, you're bought into the brand.
• 19:14
  You bought into the product, and you, you've
• 19:16
  basically bought something.
• 19:17
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
• 19:17
  Tony Conte: In the checkout.
• 19:18
  Out the checkout.
• 19:19
  Yeah.
• 19:19
  Matt Edmundson: No, no.
• 19:20
  It's totally true.
• 19:20
  I'm, I'm with you all the way, and I think, you
• 19:23
  know, I, I see a lot of websites which are cookie
• 19:26
  cutters, you know that Yeah.
• 19:27
  They're a carbon copy of somebody else's in their
• 19:29
  market because they feel this is what I need to do.
• 19:32
  Yeah.
• 19:32
  I mean, we were joking before we recorded.
• 19:33
  Can you know, can you build me a bango website for.
• 19:37
  Five grand or whatever.
• 19:38
  It's like no, just no.
• 19:40
  Yeah.
• 19:40
  Um, but you kind of have this sense as what
• 19:42
  my website should be.
• 19:43
  Website, uh, website should be Sorry, kids.
• 19:46
  The bad ones.
• 19:47
  Yeah.
• 19:48
  Yeah.
• 19:49
  They're the bad ones.
• 19:49
  Yeah.
• 19:49
  Yeah.
• 19:51
  But at, at the same time, this, this tension of
• 19:55
  brand of your voice of.
• 19:58
  Telling your story?
• 19:59
  Well, I think I became more aware of it when,
• 20:03
  um, Toms became a thing.
• 20:05
  Oh yeah, yeah.
• 20:07
  Do you know what I mean?
• 20:07
  And you, and you looked at that and you thought, wow, blind me.
• 20:10
  They, they've, they've managed to use this brand, this story
• 20:13
  so well, um, that it kind of threw the world upside down a
• 20:17
  little bit, uh, at that point.
• 20:19
  And, and I know that there were other brands around at
• 20:21
  the time, but that was the one that stood out for me.
• 20:22
  I don't know what stood out for you.
• 20:25
  So many can't think now.
• 20:26
  Actually, you put me on the spot.
• 20:27
  Nah, this is what we do.
• 20:30
  This is what we Well, let's, um, uh, take you off that spot.
• 20:34
  Let's talk about this report that you guys have put together.
• 20:36
  2020 x. Tell me about that.
• 20:38
  Tony Conte: Yeah, so last year we, we, um, reached out to,
• 20:42
  um, CMOs, e-commerce, brand managers, et cetera, and ask
• 20:45
  'em to fill out a, a, a survey around their challenges, what
• 20:49
  they see next, et cetera.
• 20:51
  And, um.
• 20:53
  What they see as, yeah, basically what they see as the
• 20:55
  next big thing and, and really what they're doing and what
• 20:58
  they're not doing, et cetera.
• 20:59
  So we collated all this, um, this information together and
• 21:04
  the, the general consensus was that everything, everything
• 21:10
  seems to be coming from a central piece of work
• 21:14
  that they're not doing.
• 21:16
  Enough of, but they're aware of, and it's, it's looking
• 21:18
  after the, the customer journey and the customer
• 21:21
  experience what on whatever platform and the website.
• 21:25
  So everyone thinks like customer experience or CX is just the
• 21:28
  website, but it's not, it's every single platform basically.
• 21:31
  Yeah.
• 21:32
  And pretty much everybody knows that they, they knew
• 21:36
  they need to increase the customer experience to
• 21:39
  increase the conversion.
• 21:41
  But they were focused so much on short term wins rather
• 21:47
  than looking at the long term strategy, et cetera.
• 21:50
  Yeah.
• 21:50
  But they know they need to do that, and I think that's
• 21:53
  the pressure that, that, that brands, um, are under, you know,
• 21:56
  within the report it kind of goes on about what sort of, what
• 21:59
  their biggest challenges are.
• 22:00
  Where it's, it's, it's.
• 22:03
  It's the fragmented of data.
• 22:04
  So they're so stuck in data.
• 22:06
  They've, they're spending more time in all knee deep in the
• 22:10
  data and actually not thinking about the customer experience,
• 22:13
  where in actual fact it's, so, it's, it's equally as important.
• 22:16
  I, I get data's important, don't get me wrong.
• 22:18
  We, we live by it with, with the campaigns that we run.
• 22:22
  But that was, that was one fundamental, uh, challenge
• 22:25
  that they need to, they know they need to resolve, but
• 22:27
  they're not, they're not, they, they're, they're.
• 22:29
  They're admitting that they're not doing it fast enough.
• 22:32
  Yeah.
• 22:32
  They're just not reacting.
• 22:33
  Um, so, you know, and game changing kind of insights
• 22:38
  that they were thinking of.
• 22:39
  You know, the likes of obviously TikTok shop, they,
• 22:43
  uh, live shopping as well.
• 22:44
  Yeah.
• 22:44
  It's something that came up as well.
• 22:46
  Yeah.
• 22:46
  I believe that as well.
• 22:47
  You know, in terms of, I, I agree with that.
• 22:49
  I think, um, certain countries out there.
• 22:53
  Then China, uh, uh, sort of smashing it from that point
• 22:55
  of view, it is coming here.
• 22:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:57
  And it is, you know, basically QVC on steroids online.
• 23:00
  It is, yeah.
• 23:01
  Yeah.
• 23:01
  And I think, um, it's gonna bounce quite high, um, when,
• 23:05
  when it really takes off in this, I know it's already
• 23:07
  here, but it's, it's, I don't think we've seen,
• 23:10
  you know, enough of it.
• 23:11
  And I think it's coming and that's the area.
• 23:13
  No,
• 23:13
  Matt Edmundson: I, I'm, I'm always surprised at how
• 23:15
  little it's been done here, considering the success of QVC.
• 23:19
  Tony Conte: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Matt Edmundson: And considering the success of
• 23:21
  live shopping in, in, certainly in Asia, like you say.
• 23:24
  Yeah.
• 23:25
  Um, and I was always surprised that Instagram never figured
• 23:30
  out that if it did live streams, you could, it could
• 23:32
  have a buy now button on on.
• 23:34
  Yeah.
• 23:34
  Do you know what I mean?
• 23:35
  And, and you could integrate that somehow with social
• 23:37
  selling, which TikTok obviously, you know, they,
• 23:39
  they, they've done that.
• 23:40
  So there's a few, there's a lot of questions I have, like,
• 23:42
  why is this not taken off?
• 23:43
  But I, I'm with you in the sense that live shopping, I think.
• 23:47
  Is gonna become one of those things, which is more and
• 23:49
  more of a bigger deal to the point where I've been talking
• 23:52
  to the guys in our team, um, like, can we carve out space
• 23:58
  in the warehouse to create a studio, like a live TV studio?
• 24:01
  It doesn't have to be big.
• 24:02
  Tony Conte: No.
• 24:03
  Matt Edmundson: Um, we have pod, a podcast studio,
• 24:05
  obviously down there.
• 24:06
  Yeah.
• 24:06
  Um, and I'm in the podcast studio at my house.
• 24:12
  But having a podcast studio and a live TV studio, I think
• 24:15
  those two things are fast becoming like non-negotiables.
• 24:18
  Yeah.
• 24:18
  If that makes sense.
• 24:20
  Yeah.
• 24:20
  Um, but so I'm intrigued that you mentioned that.
• 24:22
  Tony Conte: Well, the other aspect as well is if we're,
• 24:25
  we're, if we wanna see, um, I. A survival of retail,
• 24:29
  um, independent retailers.
• 24:30
  Let's just take them for an example.
• 24:32
  As an example.
• 24:33
  I see no reason why on their slow days, you know,
• 24:36
  whether it's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, whatever, that
• 24:39
  they shouldn't have a popup in their shop of a live.
• 24:42
  I. Piece.
• 24:43
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:44
  You know, out, out the back, et cetera.
• 24:45
  That tho those, that those, they can, they can create
• 24:48
  that, that commerce mm-hmm.
• 24:50
  On those days with their live feeds.
• 24:53
  'cause all we're doing with the live feeds is we're
• 24:55
  pushing ads to the live feeds.
• 24:56
  It's, isn't it, you know, it's as simple as that.
• 24:59
  Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.
• 24:59
  Tony Conte: Get a live feed, get an agency, or if
• 25:02
  you can do it yourself and promote the hell out of that.
• 25:04
  Live feed to that audience, which we know we can
• 25:07
  get you in front of.
• 25:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:09
  It's a no-brainer.
• 25:10
  Um, and for me, if, if it's an independent retail,
• 25:13
  it's thinking, okay, these days are really slow.
• 25:15
  We had to get that many sales on, on Mondays, well turn it
• 25:18
  into a, turn it into a live shop day and just get a, get a cube.
• 25:23
  And get filming or get a counter, whatever it is.
• 25:26
  It doesn't matter if you sell ice cream or not ice cream, but
• 25:29
  you know, it doesn't matter.
• 25:30
  It doesn't matter if, no, I'm gonna sell ice
• 25:31
  Matt Edmundson: cream and start doing live show and
• 25:32
  I'm gonna use it as an excuse for my wife that I have
• 25:34
  to go and eat ice cream.
• 25:35
  Exactly.
• 25:36
  Exactly.
• 25:36
  Tony Conte: Exactly.
• 25:37
  But I think that's, that's an opportunity I think, you
• 25:39
  know, for independent, and it doesn't, it wouldn't cost them
• 25:42
  that much to kind of get set up.
• 25:43
  No.
• 25:44
  Especially like you say,
• 25:45
  Matt Edmundson: if they've already got a store.
• 25:46
  Yeah.
• 25:46
  Whereas I don't have a store for my e-comm sites, it's
• 25:49
  just a boring warehouse.
• 25:50
  I have to build a studio.
• 25:51
  Yeah.
• 25:52
  You're right.
• 25:52
  I, I think for the, for a lot of people, they don't
• 25:54
  actually have to do that.
• 25:56
  Yeah.
• 25:56
  And, um, you can, you can use what you've got.
• 26:00
  You don't, I mean, you know, you don't need the fancy.
• 26:03
  I was watching a guy who set up a, a a, a YouTube studio.
• 26:06
  Spent like quarter of a million quid on the studio.
• 26:08
  You're just like, holy moly.
• 26:10
  Um, you know, I think you can do everything on
• 26:12
  your iPhone these days.
• 26:14
  Tony Conte: I think that's, that's, that's a really good
• 26:16
  point 'cause I think some of the best raw kind of footage that
• 26:19
  you see these days that goes via Royal is off an iPhone anyway.
• 26:22
  So
• 26:23
  Matt Edmundson: it's interesting, isn't it, how this
• 26:24
  sort of, and what works well on TikTok shop and what works user
• 26:28
  generated content works well.
• 26:29
  It's not polished, it's not like the po I mean these are
• 26:32
  just, and you get that best off your iPhone rather than
• 26:35
  the 7,000 pound Sony camera.
• 26:37
  Tony Conte: Yeah.
• 26:37
  It's almost as if it's authentic 'cause you've kind of, it's
• 26:40
  a bit raw and it's a bit.
• 26:42
  Yeah.
• 26:43
  It, it definitely is that, and we've, we've, we've had
• 26:45
  a lot of success, um, from, uh, user-generated content.
• 26:49
  Um, def it's, yeah.
• 26:51
  It, it really works.
• 26:52
  It, the, the RO the better.
• 26:55
  Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.
• 26:55
  Tony Conte: Because it just looks like it's
• 26:56
  not, it's, it's natural.
• 26:58
  Yeah.
• 26:58
  Um, it's authentic as such.
• 27:01
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
• 27:01
  I mean, how long that trend lasts for, I have no idea.
• 27:03
  But while it's there, use it because you've, chances
• 27:07
  are you've got the capacity to do it in your pocket.
• 27:10
  Right, exactly.
• 27:11
  So get get on it.
• 27:12
  Exactly.
• 27:12
  What, um, what other things did your report bring out
• 27:14
  that were interesting?
• 27:16
  Tony Conte: Um, well, I, I'll be honest with you.
• 27:18
  Everything was it, you know, everything seems to, it kept
• 27:23
  pointing, um, to CX really?
• 27:26
  Mm. Um, I think, you know that, that it pretty much.
• 27:30
  Cemented, you know, that, um, everyone was aware that
• 27:35
  lack of content was key.
• 27:38
  Yeah.
• 27:38
  They need to bring content in-house to, to, um, yeah.
• 27:42
  To, to, to get the kind of.
• 27:45
  To get the control, I'd say.
• 27:46
  Yeah.
• 27:46
  That was, and the brand
• 27:47
  Matt Edmundson: voice, isn't it?
• 27:48
  The story, the, the tone and all that sort of things,
• 27:51
  which you can't outsource.
• 27:52
  Tony Conte: Yeah, that was, that was really key.
• 27:54
  The, the need, like I said, knee deep in, um, data
• 27:57
  was, uh, stifling them.
• 27:59
  Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.
• 28:00
  Tony Conte: Um, that was another area as well.
• 28:02
  Um, just trying to think off the top of my head actually.
• 28:05
  The, the, um, but the, the.
• 28:08
  I think the customer experience is everything
• 28:10
  and they just, they, I think they were Oh, massively.
• 28:12
  Yeah.
• 28:12
  All sounded like gutted basically.
• 28:14
  That they weren't on top of it.
• 28:16
  Yeah.
• 28:17
  On top of the customer thinking out, you know, I think the
• 28:18
  big thing is it was that the fact that they know they
• 28:22
  need to be thinking further ahead for, um, longevity.
• 28:29
  Yeah.
• 28:29
  And sustainability.
• 28:31
  That's, that I think is key, especially for a
• 28:33
  brand, you know, that.
• 28:36
  Is trying to compete in a, in a saturated market as well.
• 28:39
  The only way of doing that is thinking ahead and, um,
• 28:43
  you know, showing that, you know, the, the showing that
• 28:46
  the brand and the, the, the personality is there.
• 28:49
  I think, I think off the top of my head is that, you know, I
• 28:52
  think it was, but it was about 60%, um, said that, you know,
• 28:57
  customer experience really matters to them the most.
• 29:01
  But only about, I think there's only 30% are actually
• 29:04
  doing anything about it.
• 29:07
  Which is fascinating,
• 29:08
  Matt Edmundson: isn't it?
• 29:09
  Yeah.
• 29:09
  But that's, I think that's a common trait amongst,
• 29:12
  um, business people, certainly in e-commerce.
• 29:14
  Yeah.
• 29:14
  I know what I'm supposed to do.
• 29:15
  Are you doing it?
• 29:16
  No.
• 29:17
  Well, I'm busy, isn't I?
• 29:19
  Yeah.
• 29:20
  Is, is a, is a reality of it all, you know, and it
• 29:22
  Tony Conte: comes from the top as well.
• 29:23
  If you've got a financial, um, whoever's in charge of
• 29:26
  finance, you know, if you've got the FD breathing down
• 29:28
  your neck and like, gotta get more, et cetera, et cetera,
• 29:30
  and, and they're trying to fix cash flow with paid media.
• 29:34
  Yeah.
• 29:35
  That's generally the, but paid media is going up.
• 29:38
  So had you have thought about the customer experience and the,
• 29:41
  maybe the content, et cetera.
• 29:44
  Back back a year ago.
• 29:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:46
  It'll be reaping its rewards now.
• 29:48
  Yeah.
• 29:48
  And that's something that people, that's so true.
• 29:49
  You can't, you, you don't, you don't get
• 29:51
  that taken away from you.
• 29:52
  'cause once you've got built the brand and built
• 29:54
  your authority mm-hmm.
• 29:55
  Then you've got that stability, then it's about protecting
• 29:58
  and growing there again.
• 29:59
  Yeah.
• 29:59
  Yeah.
• 29:59
  Whereas with paid, just throwing money at paid isn't always
• 30:03
  just, uh, you know, it's not the silver bullet as such.
• 30:06
  It's a bit, it is a bit risky, but don't get me wrong,
• 30:08
  it, it absolutely works.
• 30:10
  But.
• 30:11
  You know, you can't control what Google wants to
• 30:13
  charge you for a click.
• 30:15
  Matt Edmundson: No.
• 30:15
  And it, and you're right, it's only gonna go up.
• 30:18
  Yeah.
• 30:18
  It's never, I, I've never ever gone into it and gone, oh,
• 30:21
  we're paying less to Google.
• 30:23
  How nice that, that just doesn't, that just
• 30:27
  doesn't compute really.
• 30:28
  Um, but I, I, I totally get what you're saying around
• 30:32
  the customer experience and, and just making, 'cause
• 30:35
  again, this is where I think you differentiate yourself.
• 30:37
  This is where, um, you.
• 30:39
  Become different to Amazon, you become different to your
• 30:41
  competitors, is actually that customer experience.
• 30:44
  Tony Conte: Yeah.
• 30:45
  Matt Edmundson: Um, I mean, I've told the story before on the, on
• 30:47
  the podcast, and if you're new you won't have heard the story.
• 30:49
  If you're old, you, well, here's a friendly reminder, but um,
• 30:53
  I remember when we actually, we had a beauty company,
• 30:56
  which I sold a few years ago, but we had a beauty company.
• 31:00
  And we were sitting down and we were looking at, we wanted
• 31:02
  to understand why customers bought, you know, the average
• 31:05
  order value was like 75 quid on beauty products.
• 31:08
  Now, of course, I'm a fell, I'm the wrong target
• 31:10
  market in, in many ways.
• 31:11
  I, you know, I spend four pound 50 and think I've
• 31:13
  been overcharged on beauty, as you can tell, right?
• 31:17
  So, so the fact that people were spending like 75, 80 quid
• 31:21
  just astounded me in many ways.
• 31:22
  And, and that was the average and.
• 31:24
  We quickly realized that the customer was buying
• 31:27
  themselves a gift, a treat.
• 31:29
  It wasn't just skincare.
• 31:30
  It was like, this is self-care.
• 31:32
  This is, um, a, a gift for myself.
• 31:35
  This was.
• 31:37
  And so we thought, well, wouldn't it be interesting?
• 31:38
  And we bought products from all of our competitors to see how
• 31:41
  they would, how they turned up.
• 31:44
  Every single one of them came in a Jiffy bag, you know, um,
• 31:48
  the paled envelopes for those of you who dunno what a jiffy
• 31:50
  bag is outside of the uk.
• 31:52
  Um, so the, the boxes around the skincare were all bashed up.
• 31:56
  Not that I cared because I'm taking the skincare outta the
• 31:58
  box and putting it in the bin.
• 31:59
  So we, we put the skincare in a box.
• 32:02
  I. To protect it.
• 32:04
  Um, we stopped wrapping it up in the, you know, the,
• 32:07
  the air bubble things.
• 32:09
  Um, and we started to use popcorn.
• 32:11
  'cause a brand, we wanted to be fun.
• 32:12
  We wanted to be seen as eco.
• 32:14
  Wow.
• 32:14
  So we, we thought, well, let's do popcorn.
• 32:16
  Took us a while to figure that out.
• 32:18
  We wrapped the whole thing in tissue paper.
• 32:20
  So it felt like when you opened the box, you,
• 32:22
  you were opening a gift.
• 32:23
  Do you know what I mean?
• 32:23
  We added a bit of extra stuff to the box.
• 32:26
  The whole exercise meant that every parcel cost me
• 32:28
  another two pence to send out.
• 32:31
  But that's when return purchase rates started
• 32:35
  going through the roof.
• 32:36
  Right.
• 32:36
  And it was just, it was just crazy.
• 32:39
  And so we were like, well, this is interesting, you
• 32:41
  know, because it worked well, because we thought about
• 32:44
  the customer experience.
• 32:45
  Yeah.
• 32:46
  As in what, what, what do they experience?
• 32:48
  What, what do we need to help them feel more of?
• 32:50
  Yeah.
• 32:51
  For them to really, you know, connect with our brand.
• 32:53
  And I,
• 32:54
  Tony Conte: and I think whether, you know, if you're,
• 32:57
  if you're an e-commerce brand and you're running.
• 33:00
  All, all the main channels.
• 33:02
  Um, I think if you ask each channel, each channel, um,
• 33:08
  head and say what, you know, understand the, if you, if
• 33:11
  you're understanding the customer experience and
• 33:13
  you, and you are in SEO, you have to, you have to.
• 33:16
  And I think if everybody understands what that
• 33:17
  customer experience is for that brand, then
• 33:20
  everybody can work in Unity.
• 33:22
  And it all has this compounding, um, effect.
• 33:25
  I think because, you know.
• 33:28
  Anybody working in SEO, anybody working in paid
• 33:30
  anyone working in social, they should understand right now
• 33:33
  that there's an increasing competition all the time.
• 33:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:36
  So understand the customer, 'cause that's gonna
• 33:41
  win you more hearts.
• 33:43
  Yeah.
• 33:43
  You know, um, it's, you know, the rising cost of, of acquiring
• 33:47
  sales is getting more, but you know, and again, you can
• 33:49
  counter that to a degree by.
• 33:52
  Customer experience conversion on our website.
• 33:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:54
  You know, if we can increase that, that's gonna help.
• 33:57
  Um, making sure that the customer realizes the
• 34:02
  customer all the time, it's the customer in the middle.
• 34:04
  But, uh, creating the differentiation as well
• 34:07
  with your brand as well.
• 34:08
  Is it different?
• 34:09
  Is, if it's not, then what's the point?
• 34:11
  Um, and yes, you can drive new customers.
• 34:16
  You have to be, be really good at customer experience.
• 34:19
  'cause you wanna drive those repeat sales back again.
• 34:21
  Yeah.
• 34:21
  Yeah.
• 34:22
  And it's all about sustainable, efficient,
• 34:24
  you know, efficient growth.
• 34:26
  And that comes back down to knowing the numbers,
• 34:29
  really efficient growth.
• 34:30
  Um, and the FD at the top then is gonna be happy.
• 34:34
  Because, and they can, you can for, you can start to
• 34:37
  forecast at least when can't repeat customers, can't you?
• 34:40
  Yeah.
• 34:40
  You can get a pattern, whereas with no.
• 34:42
  If you can't forecast, the fts gonna be like
• 34:44
  pulling their hair out.
• 34:46
  Matt Edmundson: Well, once you've got the pattern, then
• 34:47
  you've, you've created value for the business, right?
• 34:50
  Yeah.
• 34:50
  So I, I go out, I dunno if you do this to me, but I go and
• 34:53
  acquire other econ businesses.
• 34:55
  Right?
• 34:55
  Right.
• 34:55
  So I, I do, I I do that and I'm, I'm, I'm a equity partner
• 34:59
  in a number of businesses now.
• 35:01
  Um.
• 35:02
  We're always looking at, once I get involved, I'm
• 35:05
  like, how can I increase the value of this business?
• 35:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:07
  Right?
• 35:08
  So if it was sold to whoever from private equity down
• 35:11
  to, to whoever, um, how do we maximize the value?
• 35:14
  And that predictable cash flow is quite extraordinary.
• 35:20
  So if I took a business.
• 35:23
  As just a standalone business that sold one-offs, widgets.
• 35:27
  It would be worth probably at the moment, if I'm
• 35:30
  being totally honest, maybe two or three times ebit.
• 35:32
  Right?
• 35:33
  Yeah.
• 35:33
  It's just that's how you would value a business.
• 35:34
  At the moment, it's not what it was at all.
• 35:37
  Um, but if I took those same customers, made the
• 35:39
  same profit, but did it on a subscription business.
• 35:42
  Yeah.
• 35:42
  As opposed to a one-time purchase business.
• 35:45
  Well, I'm starting to get multiples instead of two and
• 35:47
  three, I'm starting to get multiples of four and five.
• 35:49
  Do you see what I mean?
• 35:50
  Yeah.
• 35:50
  So I've doubled the business with, or doubled the value
• 35:53
  of the business without really massively increasing
• 35:55
  anything else because of that predictable income.
• 35:57
  Yeah.
• 35:57
  Um, and so no, you, you're totally right.
• 35:59
  That whole value side is interesting.
• 36:01
  Tony Conte: I mean, I think, I think I read somewhere
• 36:03
  that acquiring a new customer pretty much costs cost you
• 36:06
  anything for five to, I think five to 25 times more than
• 36:10
  retaining the current one.
• 36:12
  Yeah.
• 36:12
  So why would you not invest some time in terms of understanding
• 36:16
  your existing customers and trying to flog to them?
• 36:18
  Again, I. And again.
• 36:19
  No, you totally would.
• 36:20
  And again and again, I think it's com I think
• 36:24
  it's common sense.
• 36:24
  You go into a, you used to go into a shop,
• 36:26
  you'd get a customer, you get a good customer
• 36:28
  experience, you'd go back.
• 36:30
  It's just, 'cause it's online doesn't mean it's any different.
• 36:33
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
• 36:34
  Yep.
• 36:35
  No, that's very true.
• 36:36
  Very true.
• 36:37
  Tony, listen, but I'm aware of time.
• 36:40
  Oh.
• 36:40
  And it is fast approaching, uh, at the end of our
• 36:44
  recording session.
• 36:44
  So, uh, let me ask you if people wanna reach out, if
• 36:48
  they want to connect with you.
• 36:49
  I think actually people need to go download
• 36:50
  this report, um, yeah.
• 36:52
  Which is on your website, so maybe tell
• 36:53
  people how to do that.
• 36:55
  Tony Conte: Yeah, sure.
• 36:56
  If, um, well, to, to reach out probably the easiest way is,
• 36:59
  um, LinkedIn, uh, just punch in Tony Conte brave agency.
• 37:03
  Uh, be able to see my, my profile.
• 37:05
  I've got a little lion next to my name because
• 37:08
  the lions are brave.
• 37:09
  I.
• 37:12
  Matt Edmundson: Is that what it is?
• 37:12
  Little Leo.
• 37:13
  The lions nice
• 37:13
  Tony Conte: and broken.
• 37:14
  That's, that's it.
• 37:14
  Yeah.
• 37:15
  Um, our, our report is, um, you can download the report
• 37:19
  at um, uh, I won't even bother with the www dot 'cause
• 37:23
  that's old school, isn't it?
• 37:24
  It is, but you've done it now.
• 37:25
  Matt Edmundson: So
• 37:25
  Tony Conte: yeah.
• 37:27
  Matt Edmundson: Brave agency.
• 37:29
  There you go.
• 37:29
  It is funny actually, when it comes to using these non-US
• 37:34
  domains like agency do digital, I feel the need to put www
• 37:39
  just to make it really clear to the person in front of me that
• 37:41
  I'm talking about a website.
• 37:43
  Yeah, that's So if it was brave agency.com, you would
• 37:45
  never do it, but because it's brave.agency like Yeah.
• 37:48
  I, I just feel I need to say www.
• 37:51
  Just to clarify, it's a website, just in case you don't know
• 37:54
  that agency is a website.
• 37:55
  I wonder if some people actually know what WWW stands for.
• 38:01
  Do you know what I mean?
• 38:02
  We should probably do a, certainly with, uh, I
• 38:05
  should ask my kids, kids.
• 38:06
  What does www stand for?
• 38:08
  I've, I've half of them don't know.
• 38:10
  When was the last time you typed in www dot a search browser?
• 38:14
  No.
• 38:14
  I just don't even remember.
• 38:15
  Tony Conte: When was the last time you used
• 38:16
  the internet there?
• 38:17
  A website.
• 38:18
  Now there's a scary thought.
• 38:19
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
• 38:20
  Yeah.
• 38:21
  Well, that's a whole, whole nother topic of
• 38:23
  a whole nother podcast.
• 38:23
  It's right there.
• 38:24
  It but Tony, man, listen, it's been great to connect
• 38:27
  and great to meet with you.
• 38:28
  Thanks for coming on and, uh, enjoyed the conversation
• 38:31
  and going down, uh, memory lane a little bit.
• 38:33
  Cheers.
• 38:34
  Uh, with a, another e-commerce dinosaur.
• 38:36
  No, pioneer.
• 38:40
  But there we go.
• 38:41
  What a fantastic conversation.
• 38:43
  Huge round of applause.
• 38:44
  Let's do this.
• 38:44
  Yes.
• 38:45
  Massive round of applause to Tony for.
• 38:47
  That's enough applause.
• 38:48
  Uh, massive round of applause to Tony for joining me today.
• 38:51
  Now, be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever
• 38:54
  you get your podcast from because we've got some more
• 38:56
  great conversations lined up.
• 38:58
  And I don't want you to miss any of them.
• 39:00
  And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first.
• 39:03
  You are awesome.
• 39:04
  Yes, you are created.
• 39:05
  Awesome.
• 39:06
  It's just a burden you've got to bear.
• 39:08
  Tony's gotta bear it.
• 39:09
  I've gotta bear it.
• 39:10
  You've got a bear it as well.
• 39:11
  Oh yes.
• 39:12
  Now the E-Commerce podcast is produced by Pod Junction.
• 39:16
  You can find our entire archive of episodes on
• 39:19
  your favorite podcast app.
• 39:20
  The theme song was written by Josh Edmondson, and as I
• 39:23
  mentioned, if you'd like to read the transcript, the show
• 39:25
  notes, all that good stuff, they're available on our
• 39:28
  website@ecommercepodcast.net.
• 39:31
  No www required.
• 39:34
  Uh, and instantly you can also sign up to the newsletter.
• 39:36
  But that's it from me.
• 39:37
  That's it from Tony.
• 39:39
  Thank you so much for joining us.
• 39:41
  Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world.
• 39:43
  I will see you next time.
• 39:45
  Bye.