Latest / Revenue Problem Solvers / The Niche Strategy Nobody Talks About | Jay Baer

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The Niche Strategy Nobody Talks About | Jay Baer · Revenue Problem Solvers

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Let me paint a picture of something that doesn't exist,
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that will exist and you have to trust me that will exist, and
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you could trust me that it will pay off for you, but you got to
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pay us in advance. Welcome back everybody to the
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Revenue Problem Solvers podcast, where we look to crack the code
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and growing your business by tackling the challenges to keep
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revenue leaders up at night. I'm Carl Owens and on today's
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episode, we're going to dive into the topic of revenue
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reinvention. Now today's episode is brought
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virtualcauseway.com and don't forget to mention the show for a
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special rate. Now before I say anything about
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today's guest because I've spoken about him many times on
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this podcast and I'll say buckle up because it's a big one.
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The person, this person fundamentally shaped how I look
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at the world of marketing from 1 keynote at an Ellica conference.
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My guest today is Mr. J Baer Jay.
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Jay started his career in politics where he learned about
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running campaigns and learning persuasion, messaging and how to
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move audiences and explains and it explains everything that
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comes after. He moved into digital marketing
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before most people knew what that meant, and he founded one
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of the first digital marketing agencies in the 90s.
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He built multiple companies. He advised brands like
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Salesforce and Oracle and customer experience and content
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strategy. Then he did what most advisors
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never do. He became the product.
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He wrote 7 New York Times bestselling books, including
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Utility. And if you've listened to
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podcasts before, you've heard me reference that book on multiple
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occasions. The idea that the difference
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between helping and selling is just two letters.
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That if you sell something, you make a customer today.
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But if you genuinely help somebody, you make a customer
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for life. Jay wrote that and he lives it.
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Rather than staying in the lane that make them help make him one
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of the most in demand keynote speakers in the world.
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He went deep into something most of his peers would have called a
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hobby. After 25 years of visiting
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Mexico and studying how tequila is made, marketed and sold, he
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built a tequila report, a niche media brand built around
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education, reviews, and a very specific audience.
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He did corporate tastings, distillership sponsorships, a
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merchandise brand, hundreds of thousands of followers, multiple
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revenue streams, 1 niche, 1 obsession.
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But here's what makes the story different from every other.
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I followed my passion narrative. Jay pivoted.
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He didn't. He didn't pivot.
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He stacked, he took everything he built in marketing, applied
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to a completely new domain, same playbook, different field.
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The audience had trusted him before.
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Well, they followed him. And that's exactly what we're
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going to impact today. How do you take a personal
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brand, go narrow, build real diversified revenue without
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starting over? Jay, sorry, that was a little
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long winded, but welcome to the podcast and thank you for
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joining us. Thanks so much, my friend.
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It's an absolute pleasure to be here.
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That's a very kind introduction. At least half of that is true.
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You know, it's, it's funny though, this happens to me all
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the time now and it and it totally crystallizes what you're
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talking about. I was on stage yesterday, like
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2000 person keynote in the grocery industry.
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And I walk off stage and this guy runs up to me and it's like
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you walked out there and I, my brain broke because I only know
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you from the tequila world. And I had no idea that you were
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a keynote speaker or an author or a business consultant or a
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strategist. And I thought you're going to
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walk out there and, and, and talk about tequila and all of a
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sudden you do this 60 minutes on AI and empathy.
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I could not figure out what was happening.
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And that happens to me all the time, like literally every week.
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And I'll tell you the secret, you know, 30 plus years now in
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digital marketing books and you know, hundreds and hundreds and
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hundreds and hundreds of speeches.
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Nobody gives a shit. You make a few videos about in
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about tequila on Instagram. People stop me in hotels on The
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Reg. So there's something to be said
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for consumer level product versus B2B product in terms of
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overall market awareness. That's so funny it.
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I mean, it broke when I started seeing your tequila videos,
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which thank you for that because turns out I really like tequila.
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Turns out my wife really likes tequila, but only good tequila,
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which has become very clear in, in that and I, I reference it
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all the time. Friends are going to Mexico,
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like, hey, do you got any good tequilas?
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I'm like, here, let me show you the list tequila report.com and
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I bring it up and they're like, how did you find this?
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I'm like, well, I've got to know.
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I've known Jay from a totally different world.
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And anyways, I, you and Maddie are so good together on online.
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It's so funny so, but it's great.
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You know, but you talked about stacking and I think it's, it's
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really relevant because it was something we really struggled
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with when, when, and I should say, we'll probably talk about
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this, but but we didn't get into tequila as a business.
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It really was not intended to be that.
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It was purely like, wouldn't it be fun to teach some people some
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of the things that I've learned about tequila over the last
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three decades? It wasn't like, oh, I see a
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market opportunity. It wasn't that, but I mean, I'm
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an entrepreneur. I've started seven companies.
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I can't help myself, right? It's like, do a thing, see an
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opportunity. Well, you got to walk through
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that door when the door is open. And that's kind of what
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happened. And we started making tequila
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videos and they were terrible and nobody watched them.
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And then we got better and then people started to watch them and
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then on and on and on. And I'm like, OK, well, I can
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see how this business could be a business.
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And then we turned it into a business and, and now, you know,
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we have lots of subscribers, the tequila report, we work with 32
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different tequila brands as consultants, not to mention the
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media side of it. So, so it is a, it is an actual
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business. It is a, it is a mid 6 figures
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business on its own, which for just, you know, me and Maddie is
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a pretty nice little business. So but it wasn't set up to be
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that way. And, and it's funny when you
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have to have that conversation with yourself that says, I could
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turn this passion into a business.
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Is that a thing I want to do? Because there's no question that
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your relationship with that passion changes when you start
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to care about the money side of it.
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And, and that was a very, I want to say difficult, but a
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meaningful sort of conversation to have with myself and with
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Maddie, who's not my business partner about, hey, do we want
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to make this something other than just pure joy?
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Because it does become less joyful when you're like, hey,
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you know, we got to make invoices and stuff.
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Yeah, I, I draw a parallel to that of sports, cuz I, I played
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football. I, I don't know how much you
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know about that, but you go from playing the game and then you
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get paid to play the game and it changes and how you approach it.
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And when you walk through the door, it's very different than
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what you did when you played in university or college and it
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changes. But I will say the one thing I,
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maybe it's, I'll ask this and I know we'll jump in, but or we
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can jump in. But with Maddie, it seems like
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she has evolved her admiration for tequila along the way.
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At the beginning it didn't seem like she really liked it.
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For sure. And that's why we that's why we
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did it. So from the so, so you know, I
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did not expect you to be a business, but I am a
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professional marketer, right. So, so even as a hobby, you're
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not just going to like blindly do at least I wouldn't.
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So our, our initial observation, I think there's a lesson here
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for a lot of folks in terms of your overall addressable market
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in the speaking business, right? There's a very common saying
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that people talk about a lot called there's, there's, there's
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riches and the niches. And, and it is very true in, in
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all sort of content driven businesses.
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Most people who are, who are trying to use utility or, or
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content anyway. But it's not that they're too
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narrow, is that they're too broad.
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It's that, you know, 1000 true fans approach really.
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So when, when Maddie and I first started making videos and
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actually it wasn't her, it's just me initially.
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That's why they're so bad. My observation was approximately
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44 zero American million Americans, 40 million Americans
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will consume at least one cocktail this month that
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contains tequila. So that's your total addressable
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market. Maso Manos, 40 million.
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There's a an application, another website in the industry
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called Agave Matchmaker, which is the the database of reviews.
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It is like the encyclopedia of tequila.
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It's not a magazine like we are. It's literally like a database.
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They have approximately 400,000 users ever.
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So the nerd audience is 400,000. The total audience is 40
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million. As a marketer, my plan was
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always to serve the larger audience, which is why why we
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definitely try to be as educational as possible about
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tequila. We don't tell people everything
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we know because most people don't care that much, right?
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They don't want that much information.
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And so we don't want to be the playground of the tequila nerd
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audience. We want to be the place where
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people like you and your wife were just getting into it.
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We, we want to be your like freshman, sophomore, maybe first
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semester of your junior year sort of tequila resource.
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And once you graduate, please graduate and go hang out with
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the other nerds. And so back to your question,
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Maddie used to intern for me at my consulting firm convinced to
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convert before I sold it. And so I knew her through
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through that. And when I sold the company, I
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went from having like 25 direct reports to 0 direct reports.
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I'm like, well, this isn't going to work.
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I need to have somebody to help me.
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And she was just graduating. I said you have a job yet?
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No, how would you like to work for me to do whatever we decide
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You should do fine. And so not long after that I
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started making videos and then I said to her, do you drink
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tequila? She's like, no, I occasionally
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would drink a Margarita. I'm like you're perfect.
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So I said here's here's the question.
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I said would you be willing because she's very camera shy.
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You wouldn't know it, but she is.
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Would you be willing to do 1 video?
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And she said, OK, you know, you're my boss.
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And 600 videos later, she gets recognized all over the country
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be but you're exactly right. As the audience got wiser, she
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got wiser right along with them. So from the very beginning, my
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my strategy was Maddie is the audience right?
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She's the audience on camera. And as I'm teaching her, the
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audience is learning right along with her and it and it's been
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really effective. My good friend Rory Baden, who
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is perhaps the best personal branding strategist in the
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world, has a saying that I really took to heart when we
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started the Tequila Project and still think about this every
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week. You'll love this, Carl, He says
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your ideal audience is the person you used to be, which I
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really love, right? It it, it's like you've learned
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a bunch of things about things right about about revenue
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generation, revenue, problem solving.
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Your ideal audience is the person you used to be before you
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knew all that stuff. That is landing very well
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because that's how this whole topic came up.
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It was, you know, you ask questions and you start to learn
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things and you're solving problems.
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And as a, as a leader, like, you know, I think most people can
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attribute to attach themselves to this.
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You're looking to solve a problem, but then if it's a new
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problem, you go, maybe I haven't solved this before or you, you
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step into a new role and you, I've never seen this.
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I don't know this part of the movie.
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Maybe I should ask other people and then they help give you
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guidance. Well, I've written seven books,
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as you mentioned, and every single book was written the same
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way and for the same reason. Throughout all of those books, I
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was running a large consulting firm and what would happen would
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be I'd be in meetings with clients or prospective clients
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and I try to be an active listener and I would hear
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clients, many of whom are the biggest companies in the world,
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right? We, we weren't working with, you
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know, a dog groomer. It was like the United Nations
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and Nike and, and these really, really smart people would ask
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questions and I would think, well, look, if the person
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running marketing for Nike doesn't know the answer to this,
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probably nobody knows the answer to this.
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And then I would conduct a lot of first party research into a
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particular topic, take that research, and then build a
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formula, a recipe for solving that particular problem.
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And then I would create a speech about those answers.
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I would do that speech 25 times. And at the conclusion of each
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speech, I would say, Hey, I think I'm going to write a book
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about this. If you have any stories or
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examples that you think are particularly appropriate or
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resonant about this topic, which could have been content
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marketing or social media or social business or customer
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service or word of mouth or other topics that I've covered,
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come up to me after the speech and, and tell me your story.
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And so I would do that. And, and one of the things that
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I'm known for in my written work is having case studies and
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stories that nobody's ever heard of before.
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And it's because the audience, audience gave them all to me,
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right? You're not going to find Amazon
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or Starbucks or whatever because everybody knows those stories.
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It's this weird guy who ran a moving company in California.
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I didn't know that story. An audience member told me that
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story. So every single time I come up
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with a new topic and tequila, I think of this sort of just a new
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topic. It's because I saw a pattern of
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questions that nobody was answering yet.
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And, and in tequila, it was, there's so many tequilas on the
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market, which one should I drink?
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And so we built a company to do that.
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Yeah, and I go to it. I was telling Jay before we hit
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start, before we hit record. It's something I go to because
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in Canada we don't get the same tequila stuff that you get in
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the US when we go to Mexico. You know, they they bring
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different ones out or you ask the bartenders at the at the
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resort, hey, what do you have? And then you go through,
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through, through the airport and you see what they have there and
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you just try to make good decisions.
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And, you know, then you start to see the, you know, additives and
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non additives. And then what are the flavors
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you'd like and where do they come from?
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And they're all different. And it could be the same, it can
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be the same brand, but it comes from a different place.
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And the, the notes are a little bit different or the, the soil
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is different. And so there's so much to learn
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about such a complex spirit that when you say tequila, I don't
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know. I I probably leaning into your
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audience here a little bit from the beginning, but when somebody
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said tequila to me, I thought of Jose Cuervo Gold and I remember
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the bar and that was what I remember.
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But I didn't know of the levels and the depths.
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And you start to look at the, the comparisons between tequila
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and even like Scotch or whiskey and how the depths of flavors
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and how they're how they're treated and everything.
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It's so different. Yeah, one of the things that's
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powered the tequila boom in the last few years is people moving
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over from from brown liquors, right, from, from whiskey,
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bourbon, Scotch and and kind of getting into tequila, which uses
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a lot of the same barreling. So it's a familiar flavor
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profile in aggregate for people. So it's it's certainly been been
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part of it. And yeah, I mean, when you when
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you say tequila, most people had that one night in college,
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right? And that's sort of when when
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their interest waned dramatically.
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And, and so we try to, we try to get people past that it, it's
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really fun to, we do a lot of tours in, in Mexico of
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distilleries. In fact, we've got 1 coming in
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July with tequila reports. If you want to come or anybody
15:45
else wants to come, go to the website, look it up.
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And it's really fun to take people who are not really well
15:50
versed in it to actual distilleries and do the tastings
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and see how it's made and meet the producers.
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It's amazing. And you know, Maddie, my
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business partner came from, you know, no knowledge and, and I
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took her with me to distillery visits 11 times in like 18
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months. So she went from no knowledge to
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visiting more than 25 different distilleries in Mexico.
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And it was it was definitely a crash course.
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And now she knows lots of things.
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That's awesome how we got to today.
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So I, I, I like to ask everybody, but I think, you
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know, you kind of said this, I like to ask all the the guests
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is like what industries and verticals do you work in selling
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motions with size companies, but you kind of gave that a little
16:28
bit away. Big brands, you know?
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Yeah. Well, it's a, it's a hard
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question for me to answer because on the speaking side,
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right, which is still a larger share of my overall revenue is,
16:36
is professional speaking. I'll do 4550 keynotes this year.
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And so in that world, the customer is actually the meeting
16:46
planner. In truth, the audience is
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obviously the customer of the meeting planner.
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But what's amazing about that business and why I love it so
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much is I have to learn just enough to be dangerous about a
17:00
different industry every week, right?
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So this week was grocery, next week is auto body collision
17:05
repair. The week before was global
17:08
pharma, right? And so every week is a different
17:10
industry. And that as a, as a long time
17:13
consultant, that opportunity and requirement to learn about a
17:18
business enough to, you know, tell them what they should do is
17:21
really fun. It's really a gift.
17:23
So those companies will, will vary in size, of course, based
17:27
on the, on the audience, but, but they're typically decent
17:30
enough size to have a professional speaker at my level
17:33
come in and, and, and write that check.
17:35
So it's usually a medium sized to, to global enterprise end
17:40
user clients on that side. And then on the tequila side is
17:43
the exact opposite because we've got all these brands that we
17:45
work with either as consultants and, or as, as the media company
17:49
and the craft tequila brands, the ones that you're starting to
17:52
drink now, thank you, are very small, like way smaller than
17:57
people think, Carl. Like a lot of these tequila
17:59
brands have like 4 employees or six employees.
18:03
You know, in, in many cases, my annual revenue is bigger than
18:08
the annual revenue of the brand. And that was a real challenge
18:13
for Maddie and I when we started doing tequila consulting because
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we came from big company consulting, right?
18:20
And, and, and we had to like really change all of our sales
18:24
motions and our customer support motions and even our billing
18:30
and, and, you know, AR and AP motions because it just, it's a
18:35
very different style when companies are that small, right?
18:38
And it's basically the owners are running the whole thing.
18:40
So that was a, that, that took us a little while.
18:43
I hadn't worked with small business for quite some time.
18:46
And it, it took a while to kind of be like, Oh yeah, I remember
18:50
these guys run like, like they're me not like they're, you
18:53
know, a massive, you know, publicly traded corporation.
18:56
So that was a a different, a different learning for us for
19:00
sure. It's, it's, it's really
19:02
interesting that you say it that way because I, I didn't put the
19:05
two together And I'm, I'm even thinking of like, you know, I
19:07
see the videos you come up with and, you know, one of the ones
19:10
that this obviously, hopefully you can tell that there's no
19:14
sponsorship here or anything. But I mean, Tequila Ocho has
19:17
become one of our favorites. And so we have different ones.
19:20
And but like for you to say that I think Tequila Ocho, like do
19:23
they have like 10 employees now or like.
19:25
Well, that's a little bit different because Tequila Ocho
19:27
is actually owned by a spirits conglomerate.
19:30
So. So they are are a a now Ocho
19:32
itself, that brand by itself, I don't want to speak totally out
19:38
of turn, but I'm going to say they have all in 100 people.
19:48
Wow. Maybe something like that.
19:50
No, but they're, but they're owned by, you know, by a bigger
19:53
company, you know that that owns whiskey brands and Scotch brands
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and vodka brands and you know, all the things, right.
20:01
So, so they've got corporate resources behind them that most
20:04
tequila brands don't. A brand like G4, which is a very
20:09
fast growth craft tequila, might have 75 employees.
20:14
But they're they're looking. For it, they just pulled out of
20:18
Canada. That's why, you know, but some
20:22
of these smaller brands like, I don't know, a brand like La Gray
20:29
Master Valle, which is a really, really excellent brand made in
20:33
the Tequila Valley. They, they do a lot of things
20:35
like Ocho where they make batches from agave from
20:37
different fields. They probably have 6 people. 6
20:45
total. So when we're selling, one of
20:51
the things that we had to change from a revenue standpoint is, is
20:55
on the tequila side, we're always pitching owners, not not
21:01
staff, right, not marketing directors, not head of strategy.
21:04
It's these people own it. And a tequila business is
21:08
incredibly difficult. Most people are not going to
21:11
make money until or unless they sell the brand.
21:14
Very few tequila brands, especially craft tequila brands,
21:17
make money month over month, quarter over quarter.
21:20
Most of them have venture capital behind them, whether
21:22
it's friends and family capital or or a little bit more savvy
21:25
capital. And and so to say, hey, Maddie
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and I can help you accomplish X if you pay us Y.
21:34
That's a tricky conversation, right?
21:36
Because it's real money for them.
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Like it's, it's a meaningful investment.
21:40
Like these brands are small enough that like what they pay
21:42
Tequila report for a sponsorship is literally like a line item
21:46
called out in the spreadsheet. It's not just like under the
21:49
marketing budget, you know, So it's, it's a different, it's a
21:53
different motion when the money really matters.
21:56
And that's so different than the rest of my career where we're
21:59
pitching Sam's Club on a strategic plan where what
22:03
they're paying us for the strategic plan is like literally
22:07
a rounding error of a rounding error, right?
22:09
Like it wasn't even, it's immaterial.
22:12
And it's not the person who hired me.
22:14
It's not their money, right? They're a marketing director.
22:16
They don't really care how much we're charging them within
22:18
reason. So it's, it's a really different
22:21
way to sell and, and I like it, right.
22:25
I am a small business but it definitely took some adjustment.
22:29
So it's, it's a perfect segue because like how we got to the
22:32
topic is, I asked Jay, like everybody, what's a successful
22:35
revenue initiative you ever LED or an existing revenue challenge
22:39
revenue initiative you ever solved or solving?
22:41
And it became clear as building a revenue around niche, which is
22:44
everything that we've sort of led up to today.
22:46
And so I, I think we sort of tease this out a little bit, but
22:50
most people pick a niche based on market size.
22:52
And you clearly said that, you know that you looked at it in a
22:56
couple of different aspects, but you picked one also based on a
23:00
little bit of of, I don't want to say obsession, but a passion.
23:05
How do you know the difference between a passion that became a
23:08
business and one that should stay a hobby?
23:14
I think it's, I don't know. The answer is I don't know
23:19
because it's a very personal decision.
23:26
It's not for everybody. Turning your, turning your hobby
23:28
into a business is not for everybody because as we talked
23:31
about, by definition, ipso facto you're going to like it less
23:36
when there's money involved. You just are, it's not going to
23:41
be as fun when you're thinking about we got clients and we got
23:44
invoices and we got deadlines, right?
23:46
You're not just freestyling and and that change, which is
23:51
palpable is not for everybody. So I don't recommend it to
23:55
everybody. Now, I think it's possible for
23:58
everybody. I think it is always possible to
24:01
turn your hobby into a profession, especially now,
24:04
especially now where where you can just create good episodic
24:07
content, whether it's in Instagram or a podcast like this
24:11
one or or books or any other format.
24:13
If you're truly useful, if you're truly helping somebody
24:15
for truly embracing the utility philosophy and you do it
24:19
consistently enough over time and with the right mindset, the
24:22
money will com like you'll get paid to do that.
24:25
There's no question in my mind. Now, as I've also talked about
24:29
in the past, there is it's not a it's not a meritocracy, right?
24:35
Or maybe it is a meritocracy. Like just because you want to
24:37
educate people and you put the time in where it doesn't mean
24:40
you'll be as successful as the other person.
24:42
Because some people are better on camera, some people are
24:44
better on the microphone. Some people, I mean, it's not
24:48
you know, there there is some level of skill and talent and
24:51
charisma associated with any kind of content driven business.
24:53
Clearly you don't see a lot of like super ugly TikTok
24:58
influencers, right? There's a reason for all of
25:00
that. But you can always turn your
25:04
hobby into a business, especially now.
25:07
It's just whether you should. And whether you should isn't
25:10
really about business. It's about what will that do to
25:14
your actual love for your hobby. And that's a personal decision
25:18
that I don't think you can actually really answer
25:21
appropriately until you do it. And then you just have to say,
25:24
do I regret this or am I really happy that I did this?
25:28
Yeah. So what does, what does that
25:30
journey look like for you? Because you know, you like you
25:33
said, you've launched all these things, you're an entrepreneur
25:35
at heart. You took this tequila report,
25:37
which I think you changed the model from what you've typically
25:41
done, right? Like you went, you went playbook
25:43
revenue playbook first versus utility first.
25:46
How did that journey change the way that you brought it to
25:49
market? Well, so first we when we
25:51
started the Tequila project again, it wasn't a business.
25:54
It was like, let's make some videos that would be fun and
25:57
they were bad and then they got good.
25:59
And then we developed an audience and then people started
26:02
to approach us and say, Hey, would you want to review our
26:05
tequila or talk about tequila? And we'll pay you some money.
26:07
And so we, we monetize it a little bit and then we decided
26:11
to monetize it in a much more organized way where we built a
26:19
program. And this was for 2025, we built
26:22
a program that combined promotional videos on behalf of
26:25
Gila brands with a consulting package, right?
26:28
So, so you're everybody's in it for a year and you get
26:32
consulting and videos. Now, this is very different from
26:35
how everybody else in our industry does it.
26:37
Every other person who does tequila content is like, OK,
26:40
I'll make you a video for X dollars, right?
26:43
It's very transactional. And so we're like, no, I know
26:47
I've been doing this a long time, especially on the B2B
26:50
side. We're not doing it that way.
26:51
If you're not working for us for a year, we're not working for
26:53
you at all. And if you're not in this for
26:55
the whole package, we're not interested, right?
26:56
So we told a lot of people no, so that we can tell the right
27:00
people yes, people who want to have a real relationship with
27:04
Maddie and myself on in multiple facets.
27:07
So that was 2025's program. And then for this year, 2026, we
27:13
decided a couple of things. One, I'm spending like half my
27:16
time in Mexico now and it's very difficult to shoot videos there
27:20
for a lot of reasons. And Maddie's trying to start a
27:22
family. So pregnant lady drinks tequila
27:24
on camera. Not really an awesome calling
27:27
card. And so we decided that we had to
27:30
change what we had been doing, which is make videos and, and
27:33
completely, you know, up end the entire business model.
27:39
And at the same time, there's lots of people now who make
27:42
videos on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube about tequila, but
27:45
there's fundamentally no long form written narrative
27:48
storytelling. Almost none.
27:51
They're like, OK, I'm a writer. Like let's let's think about
27:53
building a magazine that has a shelf life that somebody has,
27:57
can follow that has a URL that has a newsletter.
27:59
The problem with all the the short form social media content,
28:02
it's really impactful, obviously.
28:04
And people love to scroll, but it's so ephemeral, right?
28:07
It's like gone, watch it gone, right?
28:09
So we're like, let's get a little bit more like heft and,
28:11
and wait. But to build out Tequila
28:14
report.com, which is a very robust website with an e-mail
28:17
platform and an e-commerce platform and a merchandise store
28:20
and a lot of other sort of ornaments on the Christmas tree,
28:24
The investment to do that was significant.
28:28
And so unlike usually what we do, which is make things and
28:33
then sell things, we said we need to sell things and then
28:36
make things. And this is the first time I've
28:38
done this in 35 years. So we actually put together some
28:44
motions, pretty compelling pitch deck and engaged in I think we
28:53
did 44 one hour pitch calls in 45 days.
29:02
Wow, each one. Of the different tequila brand
29:04
and their owners and we said OK, you some people knew us well,
29:08
some people knew us a little bit.
29:10
Someone just knew us by reputation.
29:12
So what you probably don't know is that you know, before we got
29:15
into tequila, we ran the third largest marketing blog in the
29:18
world. We had 100 writers writing for
29:21
us at one point. Like we know how to build a
29:23
scaled media company. We're going to do that for
29:25
tequila. We want you along with us.
29:27
We have 24 slots for 2026 period.
29:30
That's all we're going to have. Here's what those packages
29:33
include. We would love for you to be a
29:35
part of it. And each every two weeks is a
29:40
different sponsor and whoever signs their contract first gets
29:44
first pick of when their sponsorship is.
29:47
So if you've got a special release coming in September and
29:49
you want to be a sponsor in September, you better get your
29:51
contract back. Otherwise I can't promise you
29:53
September, it might be some other time.
29:54
So we had some scarcity, right and, and some and some forcing
29:57
functions around speed of return and it almost killed us, but we
30:02
did it. So we had all of 2026 sold out
30:06
for the website before we made one pixel of the website, which
30:11
is probably the most successful revenue initiative I've ever
30:13
undertaken, not by sheer revenue size, but in terms of like,
30:17
let's just invent a thing that doesn't exist and get it fully
30:19
sold out before it ever existed. That's amazing.
30:22
And there's a, there's definitely a story here, like I
30:24
think from Parallels and I more so because when you niche down,
30:29
like you said, like niches are in the riches and I Sangram is
30:32
one that likes to talk about that one regularly.
30:37
I have to imagine that trying to pitch those 45 tequila companies
30:41
is not the easiest thing to do to find information on because I
30:45
don't think those owners are on LinkedIn.
30:48
They are, but they never update anything, right.
30:51
So, yeah, yeah. So.
30:53
There's a. There's a question.
30:54
Here, that was easy that part was easy because we you know,
30:57
there's we know the brands, right and so we either know them
31:00
or they know us or we could get to them through somebody so the
31:03
like the like the potential prospect pool that part was
31:07
actually easy. It was like knowing who we're
31:10
going to pitch. It's getting the pitches set up
31:13
and like agreeing to the meeting and getting the times
31:16
coordinated because these folks are always out in the field, you
31:18
know, going to bars and restaurants and pitching tequila
31:20
or in Mexico. So scheduling with that
31:23
particular type of customer is very challenging.
31:26
And and so getting everybody on on Zoom was really hard.
31:30
And then the other part, which is obviously hard, is let me
31:34
paint a picture of something that doesn't exist, that will
31:37
exist and you have to trust me that will exist.
31:40
And you could trust me that it will pay off for you, but you
31:43
got to pay us in advance because we made everybody pay us upfront
31:45
before it even existed. So you know that that required a
31:49
little bit of like future casting.
31:53
And and I'm not a salesperson by training, but I certainly was a
32:00
salesperson by activity during that stretch.
32:03
So did you have to do, did you have to do all of the the
32:06
outreach and everything or was Maddie helping or did you have
32:08
somebody else out? Like how did you get all those
32:10
meetings set up? Yeah.
32:11
So usually I would make the first contact and then say, hey,
32:16
here's we want to do limited opportunity and you got to act
32:18
fast and Maddie's going to set it up.
32:20
And so Maddie would get it scheduled, would would work on
32:23
all the calendars. And you know, I'm still
32:25
traveling the whole time to get speeches, right.
32:27
So it was really challenging to get them all set up.
32:29
And we, we would do, there was days where we would do 6 or 7
32:31
hour long pitches back-to-back to back.
32:35
And, and I'm used to that kind of pace, but Maddie's not.
32:37
It almost killed her. That's it is a lot 'cause you're
32:40
jumping that pivot and shift is hard and there's a, there's,
32:43
there are some questions inside of you of like, 'cause you had
32:45
your personal and I think there's probably helps like you
32:48
have your personal brand, your background, but you've also had
32:51
some pivots. Then there's the
32:53
entrepreneurship. You have the content creation
32:54
and everything. So how did you take all of that
32:57
into shifting into this tequila world without dropping the
33:02
speaking stuff because you got, it sounds like you have so many
33:04
things on the go. So how are you juggling all the
33:06
balls to make sure the speaking continues?
33:08
The tequila stuff is going and it's thriving.
33:10
And how does it dictate your time?
33:13
Yeah, it's not easy at all because 1 is circumstantial, on
33:21
the other is the exact opposite. So on the tequila side,
33:24
especially now that we're running a magazine, not just
33:26
videos, we have a new newsletter every other Tuesday, and we
33:31
publish 15 pieces of content every other Tuesday.
33:34
And then we have some other content in between, and then the
33:37
social media promotion, all those kind of things.
33:39
But it's very calendar now. So I can tell you what we're
33:41
going to write for like the next two months.
33:44
So just like a regular magazine would be.
33:46
So you have a very strict editorial calendar.
33:47
We're working way ahead on things, setting up interviews
33:51
and, and working with our team of reviewers and all those kind
33:54
of things. And then meanwhile, you know,
33:56
working with the the clients to make sure they're happy.
33:58
Maddie does a lot of that. Thankfully she has a lot of
34:01
client service work, but, but it's, it's a, you know, we know
34:07
on this day we have to have this done because a week from now we
34:09
have to have this done, right? So it's, it's pretty much the
34:11
same every week now that we have the system.
34:14
Now again, we've only been doing this for 10 weeks.
34:15
It's that new. So, but we have it to the point
34:18
now where we kind of have a flywheel speak is the exact
34:21
opposite because there's weeks where I have 3 speeches and so
34:24
I'm gone the entire week. So I'm literally not in the
34:27
office at all. And then there's weeks where I
34:29
might have a week off, I'm in the office the whole time.
34:32
So for me, and I've been doing this now I've been speaking that
34:37
I've traveled 48 weeks a year for 22 years in a row.
34:43
And, and as part of that, you just get used to figuring it
34:46
out, right? It's like, OK, in order to do
34:50
this and hit this deadline. And, and my rule is we never
34:53
miss a deadline. Even when I ran the consulting
34:54
firm, I'm like, we'll, we, we'll mess other things up, but we
34:56
will never miss a deadline. And we never did in 16 years.
35:02
In order to make that happen. You just got to figure it out.
35:05
And if that means you're working Saturdays and working Sundays
35:07
and working on planes and working in the back of the Uber,
35:10
then that's just what you do. I'm fortunate in that I don't
35:17
need like absolute quiet to get work done.
35:20
And I'm probably, I've learned this over time.
35:23
I didn't know this to be true, but I think it is true now.
35:25
I'm disproportionately good at being able to switch gears so I
35:29
can I can go from this podcast to write in an article about
35:33
tequila to working on slides for next week's speech without any
35:38
drop in in effectiveness or productivity.
35:40
I don't need a minute to regather my thoughts.
35:43
I can literally just turn it on, turn it off, turn it on, turn it
35:45
off. And that's always been like that
35:48
since I was a kid. I realized now that that's kind
35:51
of freaky, but I didn't know that for a long time.
35:54
Yeah, that's hard because even as a as a leader, when you're
35:57
going into having multiple, I found for me personally that
36:00
pivot and shift, I got to pivot my mentality and shift into that
36:04
next thing and go, OK, catch me up on where I am.
36:06
Like I found that to be. I still find it challenging of
36:10
like because you want to be present for them, but also where
36:13
were we? Who are they?
36:14
What are they doing? Where does it come?
36:15
It's so if you have that superpower, lean into it.
36:19
Yeah, it's a good one to have. And that's why when I, when I
36:23
bring people onto my team now it's just Maddie and I, but even
36:25
before when I had a bigger team, you know, a lot of it is, is can
36:30
this person. Well, first of all, we have one
36:33
rule, both both for personnel and for clients.
36:37
We've been fortunate enough to be in the position to say no to
36:40
to potential clients for many, many years.
36:42
The the first rule is no assholes like we, we don't work
36:45
with people we don't like period.
36:47
And we won't like, we don't care.
36:49
We turn tequila brands down all the time just because we don't
36:51
like the people. Like I'm not, you know, I've
36:54
worked too hard and I don't care enough about money to work with
36:57
people I don't like, full stop. So that's rule one.
37:01
Rule 2 is can this person keep up?
37:04
Right? Like, you know, I'm always
37:07
juggling knives and and if somebody can't multitask or or
37:13
topic shift pretty well, that's just not going to be a good.
37:19
Fit, which which makes a lot of sense the the pivot and shift.
37:22
If you take a couple of minutes, it's great, but you know, have
37:25
somebody, there's been people on our team.
37:26
It's like, look, I can do this one thing but then I need to go
37:29
take 1/2 an hour break and collect my thoughts and I need
37:31
to then I need another half an hour to get like that just
37:34
doesn't work because you need a speed and efficiency.
37:37
And it's, it's challenging because the speaking business
37:39
and the tequila business are that tied together only because
37:42
I'm in both of them. But there isn't a lot of, there
37:45
isn't a lot of Venn diagram in terms of what we do for who we
37:48
do it, how it works, the dynamics of it, the customers.
37:51
There's just not a lot of parallels there.
37:55
So it really is running 2, two companies.
37:58
We are, we do try to tie it together, though.
38:00
So this is, this is like the perfect storm for me.
38:03
And I've got two of these coming up in April where I'll come and
38:06
do a keynote speech, but then they'll have me do a tequila
38:09
taste in an education class. The sponsors of the event, the
38:14
executives, their big clients, their potential clients, right.
38:17
So then I get to, then I get to actually, you know, dip my beak
38:20
in both ponds in the same event. I love that.
38:23
It's super fun. That's, I mean that creates an
38:26
entirely different experience. You walk away.
38:27
I got to see this guy on stage, he told.
38:29
He taught me something and then he taught me something totally
38:31
different that like I'll remember for the rest of my
38:33
life. Yes.
38:35
And and it's a great differentiator too because even
38:37
if speaking clients don't hire me for it, we talk about it a
38:41
lot and they remember it because there are a lot of people who
38:44
give a competent presentation, but there's nobody who can give
38:47
a competent presentation and a tequila class at this level.
38:50
So it's a nice differentiator and kind of a marketing hook for
38:52
me. Did you have any challenge from
38:56
working with brands when you said, hey, I'm a tequila
38:59
aficionado, etcetera? I live in Indianapolis.
39:02
I, I think you still live in Indianapolis, but I'm wrong.
39:04
I live in Indianapolis. I'm a tequila fan.
39:06
I can help you with your, your, your branding.
39:09
Did you have any pushback? It's a great question.
39:12
My agent, I've an agent on the speaking side was like, I don't
39:17
know that we should talk about this.
39:19
And and and and I get it right. But my perspective was, look,
39:27
you know, I wrote the best selling book Co wrote the best
39:30
selling book ever on word of mouth marketing.
39:33
The the the memorability we gain from being the tequila guy.
39:38
Speaker far outweighs the very small number of clients are
39:43
like, he's not my guy because he's also in the tequila
39:45
business. And that has proven to be true.
39:47
For sure. I knew that to be true.
39:50
That was my instinct and and it was accurate.
39:53
But there have been in the last four, 4 1/2 years since we
40:01
started doing tequila aggressively, there's probably
40:04
been three potential clients that I know of, right, who are
40:07
like, yeah, not my guy. Now, there could be many more.
40:10
I don't actually know the numbers on this and I couldn't
40:12
know. Who went to the website and they
40:14
were going to think about hiring me.
40:15
Then they saw they did tequila too.
40:16
And they said, no, not our guy because we're a church or very
40:19
conservative or whatever that could be happening.
40:21
But but, you know, we're, we're plenty happy with the number of
40:24
speeches that we're doing. Which is great.
40:26
And I, I, I think the underlying question I was, I should have
40:30
tried to ask is like when I have to think that most of the
40:34
tequila aficionados come from Mexico, but you're coming from
40:38
the, the other side of the border saying like, here's how
40:41
it goes. Is there any, was there any
40:43
challenge for you to break into that, into that world?
40:47
It's funny. So mostly aficionados actually
40:49
come from the US for a lot of reasons.
40:52
There's way more and better tequila in the US than in
40:54
Mexico, which I know is the height of irony.
40:56
It's all made in Mexico. There's almost no tequila
40:59
education in Mexico. So Mexicans don't know about
41:02
craft tequila or additive free tequila or any of the things
41:05
that we talked about in the US tequila community.
41:07
They don't know and they don't care.
41:08
It's very different. However, we get complaints and
41:16
and and like just sometimes really, really negative comments
41:21
all the time, especially from Mexican Americans who say my TO
41:30
Manuel who grew up in Nogales taught me about tequila.
41:36
Who are you gringos from Indiana to to tell me what tequila is
41:40
good to drink? Like we get that all the time.
41:42
And but it's not unique to Maddie and I, all that tequila
41:46
content creators in the category who are who are Americans get
41:51
some level of that blowback from time to time.
41:54
But you know, we just ignore it because we know that those
41:57
people don't actually know what they're talking about.
42:00
So it is what it is. It's interesting that the people
42:03
don't. There's not a lot of education
42:05
about it in in the place that it's from.
42:07
I know it's, it is, it is both surprising, slightly
42:11
disappointing, but it's, it's just sort of a cultural norm and
42:14
partially because there's not that many tequilas for sale in
42:17
Mexico, not nearly as many as in the US because of the taxation
42:21
rate in, in Mexico. Tequila is extremely expensive
42:26
for Mexicans in Mexico. It's like a 67% tax applied to
42:30
spirits there. We're in the US it's, you know,
42:33
13 percent or something. So it's, there's a lot of
42:36
reasons why it's true. But you know, I live in Mexico
42:39
about half the time now. And, and one of the reasons I
42:42
can't do reviews there is I can't get the tequilas I would
42:44
review. They don't exist in Mexico.
42:47
But you can visit the you can visit the the location to see
42:50
how it's actually. Exactly.
42:51
Yeah, Yeah. So you're just like, you're just
42:54
not in a store, for example. So you're looking at it from
42:57
like, hey, this is the I'm going to show you how the sausage is
43:00
made, but then I'm going to actually show you the sausage
43:02
when I'm back on whole. Soil.
43:04
So exactly. I can't, I can't get the
43:06
sausage, unfortunately, Yeah. People think that it's like,
43:10
isn't all the tequila in Mexico? I'm like, it's all made in
43:12
Mexico, but it's not sold in Mexico.
43:14
That's the weird thing. Which is really strange, but I
43:18
just looking at the time, Jay, I told you we'd get you out of
43:20
here and we're pretty well at the top of the hour, so I'm
43:22
sorry I could I'm. Sure, whatever.
43:24
You need maybe I'll ask one more question.
43:28
What was the core aspect of your business models from all of your
43:32
learnings that you had when you stepped into the world of
43:36
tequila to say, look, here's what we're going to do.
43:38
We're really going to focus on a on a niche.
43:40
I'm going to add another portfolio to my, I'm going to
43:43
add another thing to My Portfolio and ensure that
43:46
nothing falls. How did you make that conscious
43:50
decision and ensure that it's everything's going to be running
43:53
smoothly so that you have multiple revenue streams?
43:59
What we do differently than anybody else in the tequila
44:04
category fundamentally is that kind of treat it like a media
44:11
company and, and even we are just making videos, not, not the
44:15
magazine. We would have every video
44:18
planned out 75 days in advance. So brands would come to us and
44:24
say, hey, we we're interested in working with you.
44:27
Can you make a video in two weeks?
44:28
Like, Nope, we can make a video in three months and in most
44:32
other people are like, sure, I'll make a video today.
44:35
And and so for me, because I always have so many things that
44:38
I'm trying to accomplish, I've got to know way far in advance
44:42
what what those things are going to be.
44:44
So we can work backwards so we never drop the ball and never
44:47
and never miss a deadline. And so that kind of episodic
44:52
turn it into a process and has served me really well because I,
44:58
I go about it the same way, whether it's a consulting
45:00
deliverable or a speech deliverable or a book
45:02
deliverable or a magazine deliverable or a video
45:05
deliverable, it's got to be processed, right?
45:09
And we got to say, all right, going to do this first, this
45:11
second, this third, this 4th. And, and I think it's a
45:14
challenge for a lot of revenue generators, right, where they
45:16
think of things like a campaign instead of like a process.
45:21
And, and when you say, all right, let's let's treat this
45:23
like something that we're going to repeat over and over and over
45:26
and over and input those kind of motions in place, you end up
45:30
with better outcomes. It takes a little more work
45:33
initially to do it that way, but if you can stick to it, you'll
45:37
be much better off medium or long term.
45:40
I like to use the term simple is very hard.
45:42
And if you if you created the simple process, but that's
45:45
because, and I really like that the camp you treat like a
45:47
process, not a campaign, because that's something that I've had
45:50
to learn about even doing the podcast of, you know, you're
45:52
going to post to multiple places and how does it go?
45:54
But you have to have a process so you know exactly what's going
45:56
on. So.
45:57
Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite quotes is there's a 17th century
46:01
mathematician, Blaise Pascal, who said I would have written a
46:06
shorter letter, but I did not have time.
46:10
I think it's so true, right? It it, it, it's it's difficult
46:14
to to do it tight. And sometimes it's worth the
46:19
investment to come up with a motion that can be repeated
46:24
forever. And, and staying organized and
46:28
not getting behind as I think what, what not only allows you
46:32
to get more done ultimately, but also prevents you from freaking
46:35
out. You know, when people feel
46:38
behind, when they feel stressed and they feel like, oh, I'm, I
46:41
didn't get accomplished what I was supposed to, That's when
46:43
they start getting anxious. And that almost never yields
46:47
outcomes, especially in revenue generation.
46:49
Clients can smell fear. They can smell desperation.
46:52
They can smell when you're behind.
46:53
They can smell when it's not going as well as you thought it
46:56
should. They can smell that the same way
46:57
that dogs can smell fear. So the more organized you can
47:00
stay, the more ahead of the curve you can stay, the more
47:03
clients will be able to intuit that, and the more they'll be
47:07
willing to trust you. It's a great way to say it
47:11
because it is true. If you follow your process and
47:13
you know exactly you're supposed to do next, well, then it's just
47:16
the next step in the process. Not I don't know what I'm doing
47:18
because I've got too many balls and I don't know which one to
47:21
focus on. Trying to get you out of here,
47:23
Jay. I like to ask everybody at the
47:25
end, everybody likes new and nobody likes different.
47:27
And while you did both at the same time new and different.
47:31
So for somebody thinking about adding an additional revenue
47:33
stream or even a product to their portfolio, what are two or
47:36
three actionable things that you could say you can look at these
47:39
things or do these things so you can be successful with adding
47:42
that new that new thing? People ask me all the time like
47:48
what's the hot new thing? And I always have the same
47:51
answer, which sounds strike, but I really believe it.
47:54
The hot new thing is doing today's thing better.
47:57
And so I would encourage people before they say, all right,
48:00
let's pursue this new idea to say, have we actually executed
48:06
the existing idea as well as we possibly can?
48:09
And almost invariably, the answer is no.
48:12
It is easier to start a new thing in many cases than it is
48:15
to optimize an old thing. It's also more psychologically
48:19
seductive. So as somebody who's been in
48:22
digital since domain names were free, the ability to, to iterate
48:27
and test and optimize and tweak an improve incrementally
48:31
overtime is a big secret to whatever measure of success I've
48:34
been able to have. And, and I encourage everybody
48:38
to not run away from that opportunity in pursuit of of the
48:42
new thing. Because usually if you put the
48:45
same kind of effort into the new thing as you could into
48:48
optimizing the existing thing, you'll probably end up with
48:53
better outcomes and lower risk. But it's not as fun to do that.
48:57
So people don't want to do that. It's a great piece of advice to
49:02
get you out of here. Where can the people want to
49:05
learn more? Where can people find you?
49:07
Well, as we talked about it got 2 businesses that are kind of
49:09
different. So you got to go to two
49:10
different places. If you go to jaybear.com, just
49:14
my name, JAYBAER, that's all things speaking in in books and
49:19
such. And if you go to
49:20
tequilareport.com, you will find our consumer magazine.
49:25
If you go to tequilareport.com/subscribe, you
49:28
will get the magazine sent your e-mail box at no cost every
49:32
other Tuesday. We'd love to have you.
49:33
We've got 51,000 subscribers and counting.
49:36
Well, it's it's awesome and this has been this has been a lot of
49:39
fun to to do this. And I like, you know, I, I'm
49:43
genuine when I said to Jay, like you've influenced my tequila
49:47
world. And I, and I say that with all,
49:50
all sincerity and even just looking at, at some of the one
49:54
my, my son has gone and to Mexico and I said, Hey, bring
49:57
this one home. Can you find this one?
49:59
He's like, I can't find that one.
50:00
I don't know where to go. But well, that's why.
50:02
Now you know why. That's why before we go, Jay, I,
50:06
I want to make sure that I, I, you know, share my appreciation
50:09
to you because I've only ever had the chance to meet you once
50:11
in person. Well, let's call it twice the
50:14
Eliqua event. I don't know if I can count that
50:16
as a meeting because my mind was blown when I physically.
50:18
Was writing down. The letters but you know, but
50:21
you're somebody who's changed my world about marketing and
50:24
utility is some of a book that I go back to regularly and I read
50:27
Hug Your Haters is also on the list as well.
50:29
And I become an avid reader of your your report as my wife also
50:33
likes it too. So, so I look to you for
50:35
inspiration, for insights into marketing.
50:38
I can't tell you how much I appreciate you doing being here
50:40
today and for what you do for the world of marketing and then
50:42
printing. It's very kind of you to say.
50:43
I really appreciate that. It was absolutely my pleasure.
50:45
We'll do it again and seriously, look at your calendar.
50:47
Would love to have you and your wife or anybody else join us on
50:50
our trip but to visit tequila distilleries in July.
50:54
So I OK, I hope my wife doesn't actually listen to this one
50:57
because she'll be like, OK, we're booking it, we're going.
50:59
So she's already asking what are we going for?
51:03
What are you taking the next? Trip.
51:04
I'm coming too, so I'll be there.
51:06
It's going to be a blast. We'll do it.
51:08
Oh, that's going to wrap up another episode of the Revenue
51:10
Problem Solvers Podcast. Obviously, want to thank you,
51:12
Jay, for sharing these incredibly invaluable insights.
51:14
There's some strategy you can put into action.
51:16
Remember, success leaves clues and every revenue problem has a
51:18
solution. Sometimes you just need the
51:20
right conversation to find it. Until next time, it's Carl with
51:23
Revenue Problem Solvers helping you turn your obstacles into
51:25
your opportunities. Thanks for investing your time
51:27
today. See you in the next episode.