Latest / The Racer on Demand Show / Episode 11 | The Business of NASCAR (ft. Kelley Earnhardt-Miller)
Transcript
- Amanda Van Den Elzen: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Racer On Demand Show. I'm Amanda Vanden Elzen, and with me I have Megan Meyer, and we have a special guest today. our podcast today, we have Kelly Earnhardt Miller. Some of you may know her from the NASCAR world, but I know her from the off-road world, where her son Wyatt Miller races against my husband, Chris Vanden Elzen. So I'm so excited that she has agreed to come on today. Kelly, for those who don't know you very well, would you mind giving us just a rundown on what your background in racing is and what your role really looks like today? Kelley Miller: Yeah, good morning. It's awesome to be here with you guys and all your listeners. I'm excited to be on here. See you pop up on my social every now and then. So I was happy when I sent you a note. was like, hey, if you ever want me to be on, I'd be happy to. So very cool to be on here with you ladies. So yeah, know, kind of born into really the NASCAR world. My father was a seven time NASCAR champion, Dale Earnhardt. And so therein lies Megan: Yes. ⁓ Kelley Miller: My brother, Dillon Hart Jr., total racing family. My grandpa Ralph started racing in what would be the Sportsman Series, which has now grown into the Cup ⁓ so is all we've ever known. I've got three kids. They're 25, 20, and you mentioned Wyatt, who just turned 14. ⁓ All from time to time in various different disciplines. ⁓ I've been working for my brother since we lost our father in 2001. So I came to work with him shortly thereafter and I manage all of his business interests. So through the years, I've managed all the contracts and relationships with the teams that he's driven for, all of our partnership ⁓ PSA partners. ⁓ And then we started our race team in the late 2000s. we have four Xfinity teams that race on Saturdays ⁓ in NASCAR world. ⁓ We also have a late model stock teams that race ⁓ the cars tour, which is a division. And then also Saturday night racing that a lot of folks are probably familiar with. And I still continue to manage Dale's businesses. ⁓ We got a lot of different ⁓ going on with a whiskey river, which is bar and restaurant in several airports. ⁓ He's involved in the air filtration business called Filter Time. He just started a new Jerky Boys beef jerky product. I'll have to bring some of that to the truck races. It's really good. so yeah, so do all things. Got a hundred and, ⁓ ⁓ told on Friday, 153 employees. I'll always say 140, but we've been growing lately. So, ⁓ going on. Amanda Van Den Elzen: That's awesome. Megan: Yeah, that is a lot. So I want to share a quick story ⁓ real fast. And so Amanda probably knows this, but around this time last year, because I'm friends with Justin who has the pro four truck and he run it out Wheatland to test. And Ryan Beat was there with his team. so Kelley Miller: ⁓ huh. Megan: I have never been to a short course race before. I had never heard of Ryan B. And so all I knew was Justin and Chris and Amanda. And, um, so I went there because Justin was letting me test his side-by-side and it was very first time I've had a side-by-side on a track. And, um, so was really cool. I got to do that, but there was, uh, these other kids there that were testing out the trucks and I had no idea who they were. And it was so funny cause then like, like I was telling my husband about it and I was like, yeah, there was this like little boy and little girl that were also practicing too. And it ended up being Wyatt and Gray. And like, I had no idea who they were, how successful they were going to be. Um, but it was just so cool. Cause I was like, Oh yeah, it's just like little kids racing around. then, then it turns out like, why is this, you know, total VA? And it was just like, Oh man, like I had no idea who he was, but. Kelley Miller: You Megan: Yeah, he's he's had an amazing season. So it's been really cool to watch him and Chris battle it out on the track. And it makes for like really exciting racing. But on this podcast, we want to talk about the business side, the sponsorship side, the relationships. And so thank you for for joining us today. So a lot of the racers that listen to the show, they are the beginners, the grassroots racers. They're in those in between stages. So They have the passion, but they want to get serious. They might not have that business acumen for it. So was there any moments like when you and Dale were getting started, where you just realized, okay, this isn't just racing. Like it's not just what we're doing for fun. We need to actually take it serious and treat it like a business. Kelley Miller: Thank You know, it's funny because I think that the business of racing and the marketing side of it and all those things has really changed a lot since we first got involved. whenever we were late model racing back in the nineties, you know, I was writing and I still have it. It's about a 50 page deck, right? But it's typed. Megan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kelley Miller: And it's paragraph by paragraph by paragraph. know, it's like there wasn't social media. There wasn't all of those things. It was just like, you know, more of the advertisement on the car. And so, you know, that's kind of when we were starting ⁓ the sponsorship aspect of it, our dad started ⁓ a late model stock team for the three of us to drive. And we had a sponsor that was affiliated with my dad and the mom and pops and Western steer brand, like the mom and pops country ham. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: And so, you know, that for us was to perform on the track whale and we would go and do things for the sponsor, you know, go to their restaurants or whatever it might be. But it was really, you know, then it was really be a good steward and representative of that brand and to tell people about it, right? And to get people to go support them. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: you know, that all that has changed so much ⁓ since the onset of social media. I mean, we had my space, but we certainly weren't, you know, we're using my space like we do all the social media these days, right? ⁓ Yeah, yeah. It truly was just just the social aspect of social media, right? ⁓ And now there's such a business to it. Megan: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, you're not selling ham to Tom. Megan: Yeah. Ha Kelley Miller: It wasn't really that moment for me because it was always about representing your sponsor and taking care of your sponsor. You know, the trick to this and talking about the people that listen to this podcast and you know what I get asked often too, you know, is just how do I have my kids racing, my son, my daughter, my whomever. You know, we want to get sponsorship money. raised locally here at a track called Millbridge ⁓ in micros. And, you know, a lot of people are always asking, you know, how, how they can get funds to support, you know, what they're doing. And, ⁓ you know, it's so ⁓ content driven to me these days from a social aspect, you know, especially for the younger ones, because most I feel like are supported by friends, family, local businesses, community, right? ⁓ If they're from a small community, it's, know, wherever their parents, you know, might get something done, work done to their car or something of that nature, right? So you've got these small business supporters that can support at such a grassroots level. They can't move up, you know, certainly into a lot of the other disciplines. And so you're doing, got to bridge that gap to what that looks like, you know, and. You either catch someone's attention off of talent and performance in what you're doing, or you work really hard to network. You were talking about going to the Met 400 and the things that you're doing, networking with people, networking with companies, businesses, strategies, all that. But I think really to build something, thinking through when I started racing in the 90s to what I'm trying to tell people to do today is you got to stand out, you got to create content. You got to be interesting. got to have a personality ⁓ you know, try to get those eyeballs and viewership because ⁓ not about just painting, ⁓ know, the race car with a bunch of fancy colors and stickers anymore. It's helpful. It's part of it, but it's not all of it anymore. And ⁓ so much ⁓ me, it's it's ⁓ expensive for companies to market ⁓ the digital and social age. ⁓ it's really hard to talk them into spending the kind of money that it takes to advertise in the different motor sport disciplines, right? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: I never really had that moment because it was up back then. That's what it was about. Back then it was ⁓ up for your sponsor, do well, tell them that ⁓ is at Western Sheeran to come on over to the salad bar. ⁓ Megan: The salad bar. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. love that you kind of highlighted it's like an ecosystem, right? Social media comes into play. You mentioned being active in your community, networking, you know, the activations that you talked about, going out to your sponsors, right? These are all things that are different ways to provide those values. And I think sometimes racers get hung up on just one of those, you know, it's just the sticker on the car or it's just the social media. And it's like, If you are able to offer that whole ecosystem of the connections, the activations, yes, the advertisement, the social media, you know, that well-rounded package is worth a lot more than any one of those pieces individually. Megan: Mm-hmm. Well said. Kelley Miller: Yeah, I agree. Really starting at all is like the relationship aspect of things. You know, that's what's so important. think I was talking to someone over the weekend just about openings in our sport and ⁓ know how to ⁓ were talking about how they hate in today's world that most everything is ⁓ digital. You you go online, you put your resume in, you fill out, you know, whatever the application is online and you know employers, we're one of them, they want you to go through that online experience and you know then we have a formula for weeding out and matching things up and she said I wish I could just go talk to somebody because I know if I can go talk to them I can tell them so much more and you know then they get to see your personality and then all these different things ⁓ was yeah that it really stinks that it's that way but ⁓ you it's hard to talk to a hundred applicants when you can let them over in a digital space, you know, through that application part. So I get it. It's, you know, it's really hard to do all those different things and figure out what that looks like, you know, because somebody wants to walk in, hand your resume, talk to the hiring manager, talk to somebody. And I say all the time, go network, get into business groups, get into, you know, go work for somebody for free if you have to go get involved in a team for nothing. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: you know, and go help them on the weekends or whatever it looks like, because you're going to get into the foot traffic and the space of where those people live and exist. And then they get to know you and then they get to see your personality and they get to see how hard you work, you know, and then you're able to show them that kind of stuff. So it's, it's, it's important. It's a, that networking piece and those relationships are what's, what really support and grow the rest of what you're talking about, you know, in terms of activation and social content. this kind of stuff. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes, yes, I love that. And it kind of makes me think about, right, we just got back from the Mint yesterday and we didn't know we were going to the Mint until Tuesday last week and we left on Wednesday and by Wednesday morning it was, oh, by the way, Chris is going to be in a race car. I was... Kelley Miller: I getting ready to say, not only did you not know you were going, then you got there and then you felt out that, oh, okay, get a shot to get in a truck. Right? Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes, yes. But I was thinking like, how the heck did that even happen? And it came down to literally years of networking. Like a couple of years ago, before I even had my class 11, I wanted to ride along in a class 11 to see if I'd even like it. And I didn't know anybody in that space, nobody in the desert racing world at all. So I went into the class 11 junkies group on Facebook and I posted like, Megan: Yes. ⁓ I love that reel that you made. Kelley Miller: Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: I'm tiny and I am good at spotting short course. So I have experience with that. Like I'm lightweight and I know what I'm doing for calling, you know, the track and stuff. Somebody put me in their car for Crandon cause I want in and I had Josh Felix go, yeah, you can ride along with me. And I didn't know Josh at the time. ⁓ you know, so I rode along at Crandon with Josh Felix and then he connected me to the Shapiro's who ran like the Nitrocross Bugs and whatnot. who are amazing people, by the way. And then when we were out at Hammers two years ago, we kind of pitted with them. Well, we picked up my class 11 and their nephew Cole was racing in a side-by-side there. So we got to know Cole. Well, you know, when I posted up saying, hey, we're going to the Mint and you know, what's good for networking and stuff. He private messaged me and said, I need a navigator in my 1600 car this weekend. Megan: Nice. Amanda Van Den Elzen: can you or Chris suit up and go? And I was like, well, Chris has all of his stuff and this is bucket list for him, you know? But just thinking about like, I didn't network with those people because I wanted to ride in a car at the Mint for 100. You know, this was literally years of just getting to know people in the spaces where that is valuable for me to know people. And that's so important for racists to understand that intentional networking is not going in with the intention of selling something to somebody. Kelley Miller: You Yeah, yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: It's going in with the intention of knowing people in the right spaces, that eventually you're going to know them well enough and have those relationships that the opportunities are going to be there for you because they know you. Kelley Miller: Well, yeah, and as you're telling that story, you know, I was thinking about, you know, immediate gratification, right? And that's what people are looking for. You know, when that, like you said, ⁓ in and networking with some sort of intention that you're going to walk away with something tangible, whether it's money or support or whatever, building relationships and networking take time. And that's something I mean, you just explained a beautiful example of that, that that was years ⁓ of ⁓ Megan: Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Yeah. Kelley Miller: networking, a relationship, trust in various situations that you encountered that then brought this opportunity to the forefront. So think that's really important for people to understand too, that you just never know when that opportunity is gonna come, you know, and what that's gonna look like. We three ⁓ female here Junior Motor Sports now, which excites me ⁓ so much. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: Our first one came through a networking situation ⁓ at the Lynn St. James Women's event that she puts on. Yeah. was three or four years ago. ⁓ And ⁓ spoke there was a group of ⁓ girls there, ladies there from a local school. And, you know, they all come up and want to talk and, you know, give me the resumes and everything. And this one ⁓ Megan: ⁓ Women with Drive. Yep. Kelley Miller: one girl just hit right and she followed up with me later, which is also important. don't need to be pesky. You need to have some persistence, you know, but you can't be pesky, but you do have to, you know, ask again, remind, do those kinds of things, right? Because in today's world, so busy. ⁓ I stories all the time from especially aspiring racers from... back in the day, my husband's one of them. said, you know, I didn't put myself out there enough. You know, I was good at what I did. I was talented. But, you know, I didn't work these relationships and put myself in and stay, really stay on top of it. If somebody told me, ⁓ okay, well, you know, not today. It was like, okay, to him that meant not ever, you know, and following up. And so this young lady, she follows up with me and I gave her resume to our head of engineering and Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: She graduated about five months later, came in for an internship. She's still here today, three years later, loves it. got their first win last week, you know, and as a female lead engineer, ⁓ is so cool. And then it's, you know, made space for more female engineers to come on staff to downstairs. So yeah, you just gotta, you gotta take that opportunity to do those kinds of things. Megan: Nice. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Yes. All right. We, we went so far off track from our questions. I'm going to bring us back. Yes. I love it. I love it. These are great conversations. I just, I can't think of a clever segue to bring us back. So I'm just going to say we went off track. We're coming back. But I know, I know, you know, we did talk a lot about, know, what, what is valuable to, to sponsors. And one of the things that I noticed when racers are just learning to build the partnerships is that. Kelley Miller: Well, that's what we said we would do. Megan: Bye. ⁓ Kelley Miller: sometimes. Amanda Van Den Elzen: they think that winning is what sponsors want and partners pay for. Was there ever a time that your team's on track performance wasn't quite where you wanted it, but you still had to lean on something other than that winning to provide value to your sponsors? Kelley Miller: Yeah, I mean in NASCAR, you your seasons of winning have been flow. know, of going back to what you said at the beginning, you've got to have that full package so that when one area ⁓ isn't as as you want it to be, there's, you know, other areas that can weigh in and kind of hold you up, know, last season we won ⁓ 17 races. The season before that, like seven, 2010, we went into our season unsponsored, ⁓ all of mess going on. We had ended up with like 20 drivers that season ⁓ for reason. ⁓ just, was working out and making so yeah, you know, there's those seasons But usually you made a solid relationship with somebody, ⁓ you're to talk about those things and you obviously have this probably is not as true for the grassroots those getting started and those kind of in this area versus us being in a professional motorsports arena. ⁓ have. you know, a bigger advantage to be able to lean back on the marketing side of it and our fan base and making those connections with consumers. But, you know, it does happen. But that's where the relationship part of it is so important, you know, and having well-rounded like you talked about, you know, in terms of being able to show them something more. But winning is very important. I think winning is very important, important, ultimately, especially as you grow in the ranks of whatever that racing discipline is. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: Yeah. Do you have your drivers? Are they involved in any of the marketing or the business side of it? are they? Okay. Yeah. Kelley Miller: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we ask a lot of them, right? So we contract a lot of deliverables for them to participate in. But and you know, we've taken an approach to in the last several years of what we just really called Team JRM. So instead of Especially in our series, we're a stepping stone, right? So we are lucky when the new drivers come in and race for us at least two years. A lot of times it's one year. Like we had Connor Zilich last year. He already moved up into the Cup series. Megan: Mmm. Kelley Miller: marry up a sponsor with Connor than only for him to leave, you know, a year later and then go, ⁓ okay, who's going to fill those shoes, you know, and talk the sponsor into something else and all of that. So we've taken kind of a team JRM approach where we utilize all the drivers in relationships. So we have ⁓ relationships with Roto-Rooter. We have relationships this year with Arby's, Wildchips, and we're using all of our drivers. And a really good example of this is that Megan: Yeah, that's true. Mm. Kelley Miller: Carson Quople, who drives the number one Bass Pro car for us, was scheduled to be in an Arby's commercial with Dale and do some Arby's work. And ⁓ he got like the deathly sick right now, the flu, the whatever was going around. And because that sponsor was across two other teams, we were able to pull Justin Algar in, who then stepped in for Carson, did the whole commercial and all that kind of stuff. So we weren't, you know. pigeon-holed there to do that. But yeah, we ask a lot of the omen, but it's important and they know it's important. know, you know, everybody wants to say, I just want to be a race car driver. I just want to drive the race cars. Well, guess what? It's not that simple. And there's a lot of work that goes on with all of these partners. So I wish it was that easy. But you have to grow people into that too, because they don't, you know, not every driver comes to you with the qualities to Megan: Mm. Kelley Miller: everybody wants to say, I just want to be a race car driver. I just want to drive the race cars. Well, guess what? It's not that simple. And there's a lot of work that goes on with all of these partners. So I wish it was that easy. Megan: Yeah. Kelley Miller: partner and know, mean, think about Wyatt, when he first came in, you know, and y'all don't know him from even before that, but you know, the shyest kid on earth and he has really come out of his shell, but it takes a lot of work, you know, to do that and to be comfortable around people and you know, that kind of thing. So now sometimes it goes too far. I'm like, boy, will you back in? ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. I love seeing that too at the track. Real of ⁓ it. Megan: yeah. That's so precious. But yeah, so we, the way how we run our drag racing team is we do ⁓ rental So my sister and I will step into the seat sometime, but we both haven't been full time since 2020. ⁓ But since early ⁓ 2000s, dad has always ⁓ had second car and rented that one out because that will then pay, you know, for him to go racing. ⁓ And so we really kind of grew that side of the racing business and, you know, we charge the drivers to rent out the car and the team and stuff. so they're in charge of finding their own sponsors. And, uh, you know, if they need to do deliverables, if we need to bring the car to do a display, well, you know, that's an added expense. Sometimes it's, it is, you know, Hey, it's generational it's mom and dad's money. So they, those types of drivers are the ones that have. the least amount of success on the track, you could tell that they're just doing it because they're bored. They don't have as much passion to race and to drive. just, you know, they see the shiny object of like, ⁓ I want to be on TV. I want to become famous. And they don't put in the actual work to become a good driver. They don't understand the marketing side. And then when they want to go and step up to top fuel or to one of the other pro classes, they don't have that. that marketing side of it. And then the other teams are like, ⁓ well, you have no personality or you have, you have no content on social media. Like you're not brandable. So we don't want you to drive for our team. And we've kind of seen that happen. like for me, I try to shape them a little bit and try to encourage them and like, Hey, like you, know, you should do this. You know, I'm not, I'm not their boss. So I can't tell them what to do, but just trying to help mold them into being that, you know, that brandable. Kelley Miller: Mm-hmm. Megan: driver that companies and then the bigger teams would want to work with to then represent their name and their partners too. Kelley Miller: Yeah, and if they're interested in going further, they take you on the support and the advice and try to implement things and do things, right? That's the goal. the hope and goal. ⁓ Megan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, so, but yeah, yeah, sometimes they're just with us for a year. ⁓ Yeah, sometimes it's a couple years. So yeah, we're also kind of that stepping stone for them too. So yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: you Kelley Miller: Doesn't always work out that way. Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: It's really interesting. mean, all I really know on a professional motorsports level is off-road, right? That's the only one that I've ever really been involved at at a professional level. And it's really interesting to hear from both of you ladies about drag racing. You've got rental vehicles. People are paying to get into a race car. And then for you, Kelly, you've got drivers that are on your team that's kind of the opposite, right? You're bringing in talent to drive your vehicles. Kelley Miller: Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: You know, it's curious to think about like what motor sports follow which models for that and why, you know? Kelley Miller: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, part of it probably just has to do with the financial picture of the motorsports. I mean, it's it's imperative that at the level between the truck series or the Xfinity and O'Reilly series now and the Cup series that, it starts with partners and then that you can bring in talent. we're sort of shifting back to that because there was a period of time where, I call it, to play, right? ⁓ about the rental cars and ⁓ definitely had either people that have relationships ⁓ partners that bring their ⁓ partnership, everything to the table, but we still operate that in the same way that we do if the partner's ours because ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: Ultimately, it's extremely important the brand of Junior Motorsports is consistent and replicated and that we're ⁓ And we found that if we just keep that consistency, no matter who's bringing the money to the table, to your point, Megan, you're teaching them later for when they grow, right? And if they have funds to be able to take elsewhere as grow in their ⁓ then that will serve them well kind of doing it that way here. But we haven't worked both ways, but we kind of keep the same model. And the sponsors won't. A great example is like Brandt and Justin Algeyer. They've been partnered together for 15, 16 years. the same way that they worked at other places, works here, ⁓ a certain amount of deliverables that Brandt wants. we just kind of, it's understood by everybody that team executes of those kinds of things, right? So even though the relationship is with Justin and Brandt, we've done a good job of executing it all the way. you know, now we're probably in a position that once Justin retires, Brandt would probably stay with Junior Motorsports, want to bring in new talent, which is also a great place to be, you know, instead of wanting to take their driver and ⁓ money you know. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: But it is, it's very different. You know, I've learned a lot in the off-road world of, and I probably don't know 20 % of it, you know, just between looking at, I think it's been real interesting ⁓ this past year listening to different conversations about the growth and like, I don't know Champ off-road racing like some know it from when it was the Lucas oil series or all of that. You know, I look back and I look at the names of who, were champions then and think, hey, what happened for then it to kind of have more of regional feel like how it is now up in your world, Amanda, in Wisconsin and so on and so forth. And then thinking through the group that has it now and us going out to Helen. And ⁓ what that look like for that balance between ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: kind of regional and local, but then bringing more eyeballs so that then it can turn into more sponsorship and partners and a bigger form of racing and so on and so forth, but yet not undermine what the grassroots people are doing and the people that have been supporting the series. it's, it's, it's a complex, you know, it's a lot to think through and complications ⁓ what all that looks like. And we have that on our side too, but it, the difference is going to a new racetrack or not like, you know, Amanda Van Den Elzen: It is. Kelley Miller: my antennas go up whenever NASCAR says, oh, we're going to go to the West Coast for like three weekends in a row. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like we go out there and we spend, $22,000 in fuel to go to cost my four cars to go to Portland, Oregon, where, you know, I have the chance to win an average of $20,000. doesn't make sense, you know, and you're like, Hey, what are we doing? You know, so I get it. You know, I get those kind of Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: Yeah. Kelley Miller: conversations and questions, know, in terms of we started this conversation, why does it look so different everywhere, right? And those are the differences, right? In short course, you know, I feel it's very regional based ⁓ and we're, but we're all out there trying to attract something more national or something that's bigger than where we are, right? So, ⁓ yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, that's definitely a dress for the job you want, not the job you have moment. Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah. told you several times and tell people about short racing. It's just so fun and festival because it's not as high intensity rigid, you know, ⁓ as the world in terms of the Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: delivering and everything, you you can have fun. It's like NASCAR used to be back when I remember my dad starting and that Saturday night group of guys coming over and working on the car after their day jobs and all of that kind of stuff. It's just more of a real job now. In short course, isn't that way? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes, Chris and I Chris and I have had a lot of conversations too about, if we ran the race series. Kelley Miller: ⁓ Yeah, but it's hard because it's, you I think that's one of the things that in my role, even leading my people here or just, you know, trying to convey to fans all the different dynamics that are involved in making the decision, right? Because you, you know, you want to think big to grow, but you've got to take care of the whore and what's happening. But, you know, Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Kelley Miller: if only think about the core, you're going to stay what you are. ⁓ but but want to grow at the right pace and speed and everything to, know, you just can't make crazy decisions that put the core ⁓ of the group that is of the series, you know, ⁓ in a bad position, you so that you don't have the support and all that you have that we have right now in the short course stuff. So Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we ⁓ Kelley Miller: It's amazing to me too, like the youth and everybody that make up so much of our weekend, you know, and what they're doing, right? Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. We were chatting with Marty Fiocca at the Mint. ran into him. Of course, he's like the first person we run into and it's like, ⁓ I know you from Wisconsin. but, ⁓ you know, we were talking at first, we were talking about the Beatles come into Crandon and, and Bark River and stuff this year. But then we got talking about, you know, how we still have this really regional feel for our sport. And, you know, we have this huge grassroots sportsman racer. Kelley Miller: Hahaha! Thank you. Amanda Van Den Elzen: And frankly, even a lot of our pros are still sportsmen ⁓ I'm going to put that in quotes, right? Like they don't have the funds to go out to these races in California, we barely have funds to go out to California. And I would argue we're probably one of the better funded teams in our sport, ⁓ which is really kind of sad, you know, that we don't have that kind of support in our sport being as awesome as it is. But that being said, Kelley Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now Amanda Van Den Elzen: We're talking about exactly what you were just saying. How do you maintain that core? How do you maintain the sportsmen racers in at least the fashion that they're in right now, but elevate the pros and get more to a national feel? And I am not saying this with any kind of I know what's coming at all, but I suspect that the future holds a separation for us. We're probably going to see a regional and a national split, ⁓ which I honestly think our sportsmen needs in order to elevate the true professionals and give them that platform to truly travel across the US, provide that value to more eyeballs and get more sponsors on board because of that. you know, I think you're right, if we continue to just look at the core of our population and continue to do the same things, we're really not going to see the growth we need. Kelley Miller: Yeah. Yeah, and it, you know, I think a lot of different motor sports go ⁓ that and it's just a matter ⁓ of, you attracting. ⁓ You think about drag racing, Megan, I mean, you can probably speak to this, know, enough to be dangerous. But you know, you have the different, the IRA, the NHRA, you have different kind of local drag racing situations that the kids and can do the junior directors and all that kind of stuff and into the professional. ⁓ You know, you've got to have those layers, I guess, you know, is the best way to put it right. Something to aspire to, people in your your group expires to be in a charade. Megan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kelley Miller: champions, right? ⁓ Megan: Yeah. Well, that's exactly how, how I grew up. ⁓ we did junior dragsters. started when I was 10. ⁓ we just race at our local track here in Kansas city. And then, ⁓ yeah, just, we just, yeah, like climb the ladder, went up the ranks, moved up through the sportsman classes. And then, you know, when I was, when I was a kid, I did have aspirations to go to top fuel cause you know, that's the pinnacle. That's what everyone wants to do. And then. When I got into top alcohol dragster, which is what my dad was running. Um, I was like, you know, I'm, I'm very satisfied and content with this. Like I loved racing with my dad and I've actually never driven for another team. So was like, I don't know if I would even like being on someone else's team. So, um, so I did top alcohol dragster for five years. And then, um, I just, honestly, I just got kind of burnt out with everything we were doing with it. Kelley Miller: You Megan: And that was also the same time I was getting married. So it's like, okay, it was a good time for me to step away. ⁓ but, but yeah, I, we, whenever we are looking for drivers for our team, we want someone that has that prior sportsman experience. No matter what class it was, we don't want someone that is completely green. just because they might have the funding, does it mean you're going to be a good driver? So we've definitely prefer someone that has. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: Yeah. Megan: You know, at least two years of experience driving something slower and with drag racing, you can go and take your daily driver down the track on a Friday night test and tune. That's what makes it so great. yeah. Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: Yeah, that's true. I didn't think about that point. The same thing in short course, you know, with the sportsman division, like the trucks that are on the sportsman side versus the pro side. ⁓ You know, there's that avenue to do it that way before you grow into the pro side and whatnot. ⁓ Yeah. The other hard part, I think that, I think about this with Wyatt, because you said the words burnout, that, you know, I think that's something that ⁓ all have to be careful of. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: when we're talking to the grassroots racer and the kids that are coming up through like these sportsmen kids that are at our events, ⁓ that their parents, you you got to find that thing that, and this is the one thing that I hate about racing in general, motor sports in general, there's no that our kids can go play for and wreck ball and wreck, you know, there's no wreck motor sports, right? ⁓ And so it's really hard for kids to get involved. And when they do get involved, comes, there's financials that need to be part of it, right? To make it happen. But at the same point we can, you know, do we get our kids involved in something? mean, Wyatt bless his heart at 14, you know, the things that we have him doing and being part of. And some days he just looks at us and goes, I just want to be a kid. You know, he's going to school. He's coming here this afternoon to shoot some content and do some stuff. Then. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Kelley Miller: We have to go to the dentist later because he's got to get his wisdom teeth think about all these things that they're doing. He just raced four nights in a row last week, late model stock cars, know, ⁓ and doing during the day and doing different things. And, ⁓ you know, are we setting them up for? You know, we setting them up to love the sport. Are we setting them up to like get burned out quickly? Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Oof. Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: and all those kinds of things at their age. So I'm let them be kids supporter as well. But that's the hard part about our sport. think NASCAR has looked really hard at what that youth movement looks like. It usually starts in quarter midgets for us. And then what's the progression look like? Because there's age restrictions and all that. And there should be age restrictions, right? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Yeah. Kelley Miller: That to me is a little bit of the downfall even for us marketing wise. you think about fans want to, you know, this influencing world. For me to influence you, I've got to be looked at as respected. know, have what's my experience level being with a particular product or something another, you my 14 year old can't get up there and pitch certain products, right? Cause he's never even heard of them, use them, don't know what they do, you know, any of that kind of stuff. And so, you know, that happens in our series too, in NASCAR, you know, we have 18, 19 year old kids running our cars and our audiences out there that are 30, 40, 50 going, what's this kid know about, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Kelley Miller: And you're like, well, I don't know. What does he know about that? You know, and I think that's been hard marketing wise, you know, to also make that connection back to consumers and communities and that kind of thing, you know. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. You know, I love that you talked about you know, letting the kids just be kids. And honestly, Kelly, that's one of the things that I noticed first about your family when you guys entered our sport was watching Wyatt just run around with all the kids. you know, I love that. I can tell. But I think that also gives him the opportunity to build his own brand too, because, you know, if you're just always living in the shadow of what your parents want you to do in a motor sport, then you're not living your own brand. You're living your parents brand. And Kelley Miller: That's his favorite part. ⁓ Megan: you Kelley Miller: Thank Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: You know, I see Wyatt ride by on a bike with a fishing pole in hand because he's going back to the pond to go fishing. know, that is authentically Wyatt's brand. And so when I see him out there representing, you know, Bass Pro, it's like, well, yeah, of course he is. That's what he loves. Exactly. So, you know, I think that makes. Kelley Miller: Yes. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Megan: Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: I think you're right that, you know, forced marketing into like a brand that doesn't fit, you know, you're not going to have a 14 year old representing your whiskey bar. But, but you know, when you do have a 14 year old that's allowed to be himself and love the things he loves and then match him up with a brand that really fits, that's really good marketing fit. And I think that makes it a lot easier too. Kelley Miller: Yeah. Megan: Right? Kelley Miller: Yeah, we certainly got lucky in that situation, you know, to be able to have Bass Pro be a part of his racing relationships. They've been, you know, just a part of our family for a long time. But, you know, I thought it was really cool. I don't know if you guys have seen the most recent Roto-Rooter commercial that's been on social, but how fun can it be to market, you know, needing to plunge your toilet, right? Megan: Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: But they have taken the stance that they support some grassroot racers in Cade Wolf. His dad is a crew chief here in NASCAR. Kyle and Audrey Larson, Kyle Larson's kids. Isabella Robusto, who's a young lady running the Arca series under the Toyota camp. Teen 20, 21 year old girl. And then they have Kyle Larson, they do some stuff here in our program with and utilize Dale and Carson Kwapel and some others, Connor Zilich, but they did this commercial. It was so fun because the kids got to do their part, know, like Owen Larson comes out and he's like, I think the toilet's clogged. And, you know, then all the adults kind of chime in and get it fixed or right, whatever. So, you know, you can find those opportunities that make sense and just be really creative with what that looks like, you know. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Yes. Kelley Miller: And when you do get those opportunities, they're really fun, you know? And I think that's, you know, that's kind back to marketing and how you get out to find sponsors and all. And I've heard y'all talk about this. You know, you can't just send out a deck and go here, you know, I need $5,000 and I'm going to go to 10 races and da da da da da, right? You got to find out what they want. You know, what do they need? What are they looking for? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: And then also pre-think about what you can do for them, not just paint on the car. How can I fit into their brand or whatever? What can I introduce them to? What is about me that connects with that brand or that kind of thing too in thinking that way? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, and oftentimes it's not what you expect. ⁓ I've been running an Instagram challenge for myself where I'm reviewing a racers Instagram profile from the viewpoint of a sponsor. And I had ⁓ one of the people that I reviewed reached out and they said, you know, hey, we're competing in this series and this brand reached out to us and I really want to do this right. I don't know what to say from here. And I said, well, ask him. Kelley Miller: Mm-hmm. Uh-huh, you have seen that. Amanda Van Den Elzen: what they want, ask them why they reached out, ask them what success looks like if you do partner with them. like, it's either going to be like, ⁓ that's what they want. This will be easy, or this is not aligned with us. It's not something we can actually deliver. And they reached back out after they had asked the brand what they actually wanted. And they said, you know, I'm so glad that you gave us those questions to ask because Kelley Miller: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: They actually just thought that we came across really authentic on our social media and they didn't want something well polished or anything. They just wanted what we were already doing. It's like, well, great. That sounds like a great fit. But can you imagine if you were to turn around and change everything that you were doing and high production and that's just not even what they wanted, you know? Kelley Miller: Yeah, and perfect. Yeah. ⁓ Megan: Yeah. Kelley Miller: Yeah, for sure. Megan: Well, and Kelly, I loved in your book kind of going back to like with Wyatt and, you know, putting your mom hat on. I loved how you you made it very clear that like family comes first in your book. And I really appreciate that because like I was telling Amanda, like I can really relate to your story because when I was growing up, racing was always first with my dad and he was never home. And so we don't really have that close of a relationship. And when I had my son, my husband and I were like, we want to make sure family comes first for us. And everyone always asks, like, he's only four and a half and you can get a junior dragster when you're five. And so everyone's always like, Oh, does grandpa got a junior ready for him? And it was like, you know, we could do that. We could kind of force it like what we were talking about, but we want it to be his decision. And Kelley Miller: Thank Thank Megan: You know, my husband races dirt bikes. So whether he wants to do two wheels or four wheels or drag racing or dirt racing or something completely different, like we just want him to come to us when he's ready. And you know, whatever sport he wants to do, we're not going to force him to do what we do or force him with how I was raised to do. And, I just, I, I do want to like really, ⁓ show you that I appreciate that for me being a new mom to hear that from you. ⁓ Kelley Miller: Yeah. Yeah, it's important. mean, know, Wyatt, didn't, ⁓ my husband and I both know, you know, just how hard the sport is, especially in our stock car work, stock car world, ⁓ to make it and to the finances it takes to get there and all of those kinds of things. And, ⁓ you know, everybody asked us when Wyatt was growing up, why, ⁓ when's it gonna race, when's it gonna race, when's it gonna race? And my husband would always say not until he shoots his first buck. And, ⁓ we're going to make that more important, you know, and. Megan: ⁓ Yeah, I love that. My husband's a big hunter too. Kelley Miller: Literally. Wyatt went to watch his sister's race when he was two, three years old and whatnot for, and, you know, he got to be eight years old and they were going out to a friend in Illinois to work on deer stands in the middle of July to get ready for hunting season. And he had an extra outlaw cart and they were racing at their local track. And so he's like, why don't you let Wyatt do this? You know? And so we asked Wyatt and he's like, sure, I didn't even go. And so, they raced and Wyatt finished second or third and ⁓ it, had a ball. And so there it was from then on out, you know, but, but to your point, you know, let it, ⁓ it be their idea or let it, ⁓ it just, ⁓ just was happenstance that that's the way it happened, you know? ⁓ And we didn't have to go buy all the stuff ourselves first and da da da da da. You know, that's another thing is like, if your kid's interested in it, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Hahaha Megan: Yeah. Kelley Miller: It sounds like a lot of money. had this conversation with a late model driver and data buyers at one point. they thought that they needed to invest in everything themselves instead of coming to drive for us. And yeah, did it sound pricey at the time for them to come drive for us? Absolutely it did. But the dad told me after it was all said and done, I wish we would have listened to you because I spent all this money, you know, let's say I spent $200,000 to get myself outfitted with the late mile stock car and do all the things and I sold it for pennies on the dollar, you know, and, and Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: they were trying to do it themselves. here at our team, there's a lot of support around you. There's a lot of eyeballs. There's a lot of things like that. You know, I think that's something that Ryan's trying to build. And I think you guys are doing a great job of it too. Amanda is, you know, just that brand presence ⁓ know, who you are and what you're about and to attract people to you that that can work for them a whole lot better than them doing their own thing, you know. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: to help them grow as a marketer and driver and all of those things. And yeah, it may sound like you talked about renting your drag car. It does sound like a lot of money, I get it. But when you think about what it takes to move through the sport, that, paying that upfront works better for you in the long run. A lot of our late model drivers here have went on to be NASCAR racers, so. Megan: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: and they maybe have not went through my program. They may have just started in the late model stock part, but then went elsewhere for the other stuff. Amanda Van Den Elzen: and you're getting more than equipment. You're getting that hands-on experience and guidance too, yeah. One of the things, kind of just talking about getting kids in the sport and their own brand and all that stuff, and ⁓ I saw something pop up yesterday on social media. Chris showed it to me and he was just kind of laughing. He's like, God, I love this. there was. ⁓ Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah, you're getting that brand support. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Megan: Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: something, some headline that said like Dale Earnhardt's grandson is something with a monster truck and then it highlighted your comment that said his name is Wyatt Miller, right? And how hard is it sometimes to get out from the shadow of that legacy? Kelley Miller: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ it's terrible. It's terrible. It's hard. That's why I remind them, you know, that, you know, and I get it. It opens doors and all those things, you know, that reporter wrote back and was like, you know, this is good for my business too. And I get that. was just like, just use both, you know, use the descriptor, but yeah, tell everybody his name at the same time. And because, you know, you feel like it's just being used, so to speak or whatever, but it is hard to, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Yes. Kelley Miller: to stand out from the shadows. think that's why we love the dirt racing. We love the trucks so much. We love the off-road trucks so much. We love the sprint cars and all that we do because there isn't that, you know, of course, yes, he's still Dellenhart's grandson and still in the Earnhardt family, but none of that reputation comes to the off-road truck, because we don't off-road truck race, right? This is the first speed of sprint car race. ⁓ And so he's just Wyatt there, you know, learning. Does he have Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: a pedigree behind them that should showcase some talent and whatnot, absolutely, but ⁓ he can just be Wyatt there. ⁓ it's this past week when we ran late model stocks, everything, and now kind of always marched to the beat of my own drum, but I haven't had to be a race car driver and follow up in the shadow of my dad either. But ⁓ I think about Del Jr. and just thinking about all the people. What I would hear about Wyatt this past week and the expectations of people, either the love him or hate him attitude because of who he's associated with, you know, is it just gets so hard and so frustrating to deal with in our world because they won't let him just be him, you know. It's like, ⁓ you're gonna be just like your grandpa or you're gonna be just like this or you're gonna suck just like your uncle. Like whatever they say, it's just like, can you just let him be? Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Yes, yeah. And I mean, clearly he is talented in his own right. You know, he is building his own name. We're we're so excited. Kelley Miller: Yeah. And he'll figure out the part of it that he loves. If you ask him, it's the off-road trucks and the sprint car roads right now. But I think that's part of it. I think that he can just be Wyatt there, you know? And I think that's part of what he likes about it too. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Well, we'll keep them. Yeah. Yes, it reminds me, Megan, of the time that you shared the thing where, I don't even remember where it was posted, but it was like basically saying like this female drag racer and you were like, what do you think about this? Megan: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah. So there was ⁓ like a journalist that was at one of the races I was doing and he he record me racing and in his caption, it said like female drag racer, like like I won this round or whatever. And so I reposted it and I was like, what do you like? I was asking the fans like, what do you guys think? Like how he called me just like female drag racer instead of like just drag racer or just Megan. Kelley Miller: Yeah, frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Megan: And so yeah, there's a lot of controversy in the comments there. Yeah, Kelley Miller: Yeah, because they don't say male drag racer. thing on the NASCAR side. ⁓ us being females in a man's world sport kind of thing, you get asked that often, right? ⁓ do you stand out? How do you do this? And you just want to be. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Kelley Miller: treated as you just want the same like you said you know if you if you're gonna say male drag racer say female drag racer if you're not gonna use male drag racer then don't use female drag racer like whatever you know like just be consistent like it's it's it's a tough road because there are there are areas where you want to stand out as the female but you know ⁓ i just don't it to be all about that right Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, it's a tough line to walk. I will say too, you know, talking about how why it can just be Wyatt in off-road, I honestly being, I don't know, somewhat visible in our sport, I don't think I've ever felt like I wasn't welcomed as a woman and an authority in our sport. And I think that's something I probably take for granted more often than not. ⁓ But it's something I really do appreciate about off-road too. Kelley Miller: It's stuff. Yeah, it is. Uh-uh. Yeah, I think you see, ⁓ you know, when I come to the off-road world, I that family, and don't want to say family is in your, necessarily related, everybody family, ⁓ the space welcoming from the standpoint that even your ⁓ workers that are guys on your their wives come, you know. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: And so you've got all of that happening to where you see male and female and you see all the support and whatever roles everybody is carrying, ⁓ it just is more welcoming, I think, because of that. ⁓ In our sport, in the garage, the families, the spouses, all that, they're not hanging around, right? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: You just see pretty much a drove of me and except on my team where I have three women. Yes. I'm, proud that. Like saying that about my female racers because they're earning that right to, to, to stand right up beside the guys, know? And, ⁓ that's super exciting. So, but yeah, I think that you see that in the short course, you just see ⁓ everybody working together, doing things together, supporting all of Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Kelley Miller: you get to visibly see it, makes it ⁓ more welcoming for everybody, ⁓ newcomers that come in. ⁓ Megan: so Kelly, you have been really passionate about ⁓ connecting with fans and with your background the merchandise ⁓ side, ⁓ we, in your book, you a about that a lot, which I love. So what have you seen work best when it comes to engaging with the fans and the consumers and how could... grassroots racers kind of take from that, but on a much smaller budget that they have. Kelley Miller: Well, know if I a ⁓ great answer for it. one of the things that ⁓ I have seen on ⁓ short course side is like the little freebies that you can invest in, you know, working on that brand recognition with people. If I have ⁓ a penny for everybody that comes up and asks me for a decal at the short course races, I'd be rich. so just finding those little ways to do something like that, where you can, that brand building, mean, the merch is... ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Thank Kelley Miller: you gotta have a customer for the merchandise. So I mean, just because you make merchandise doesn't mean that, you know, you're gonna sell it and it's gonna get out there and all that stuff. So you gotta have a demand for it. But you know, kinda, you can just start in those areas. You know, you come over to you guys and you've got the bracelets, you got, the one I love the most is the wild bill, you know, with the orange headbands, you know, you see, but that's rare. Megan: Mm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, Jenny's stuff. Kelley Miller: You know, the glasses, they got the glasses. One of our racers, Megan, their colors are orange and blue, and he's in the Pro 4s, he, they have those crazy orange hair things and all, and they just give that stuff away left and right at his tent, you know? And before you know it, you're walking to the stands and there's a sea of these people, you know? And they, Megan: ⁓ yeah? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Kelley Miller: The people wear it and love it because it's fun stuff. They don't know who he is necessarily, but they learn, right? So some fun things like that too, I think it's fun. Or like you guys, you see the purple and aqua a lot and that kind of thing. Just kind of that branding part of it that kind of makes you something that stands out for yourself. The nicknames, paint schemes, that kind of thing. Amanda Van Den Elzen: I'm so excited because we haven't been home for almost a month, but I know that I have four boxes from Nexen sitting on my front porch right now. And they sent us, ⁓ you know, like bam bam sticks, like the inflatable, like noisy things. Yes, they sent us, ⁓ I don't know how many cases, they had like 12 cases of them. So we're going to have like a whole crowd of just people with purple Nexen tire bam bam sticks. Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Megan: That's perfect. Yeah. Kelley Miller: Awesome. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, somebody else had the flags like the American flags. ⁓ Yeah, Trey Gibbs. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, so you know, you find something like that that kind of, you know, sticks for you that kind of represents you and most everybody wants something for you. Amanda Van Den Elzen: ⁓ I think that was Gibbs, right? Megan: Yes, yeah, yep, we've got one of those. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes, I think this year. the impulse media guys, they came up with when Chris wins, we all win. That's like kind of our new tagline over the last year and a half or so. But ⁓ it's all because they came up after Chris won a race and we gave them an air freshener with Chris's truck on it. And they were like, ⁓ is this because you won? And Chris is like, yeah, sure. We had been handing them out all weekend. So. But. Kelley Miller: Yeah. Sure, sure. Amanda Van Den Elzen: This year, I really want to lean into the when Chris wins, all win. So I've got ideas for like kind of small batch little freebies that when Chris wins a race, we'll give away little freebies. So I have so many ideas, but. Kelley Miller: I love you, fun. Yeah. Megan: Yeah, that's awesome. we love doing like the parade at Crandon where you can just go up to everybody's ⁓ everybody's table and get all the free stuff. Yeah, we loved that. Kelley Miller: ⁓ yes. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes, the parade is. You know, it's funny going to the Mint and being there for Fremont Street and seeing the scale of that. And like the Crandon Parade is bigger, I think, than Fremont Street was. And I mean, like there were people there. The infrastructure was far larger, obviously, and we're downtown in Las Vegas, but. Kelley Miller: Crandon Parade. Crandon's super fun. Super fun. Megan: ⁓ yeah? Kelley Miller: Wow. Megan: Interesting. Amanda Van Den Elzen: When I look at the scale of the vendors there and the race cars were going through tech, but they weren't really just sitting there talking to people and making those connections with people the same way you can do at Crandon. And we're really lucky that we have that. Megan: Mm. Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: Thank you. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, super lucky. Let try to replicate that at some of the other events in the community would be fun. Yeah, well Lena, did we do something with Lena I think? Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes, yeah. And I think they've tried it, you know, at Anago and yeah, yep. But they're not really, I don't know, like in Vegas, you're pulling people that are like, what the heck is going on over there because they exist there already. But yeah, I think, you know, Dirt City has the opportunity to pull in more people from Green Bay and Appleton and stuff. There's significant opportunity to be had there, but. Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pass or pass? Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: We just don't have the population in a lot of the places where we're racing. Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Now we got to get used to calling Antigo something else. Did you see that? Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, Yeah, I think I mean I heard through the grapevine I didn't see any of the public stuff what was going on, but I heard that Zach's gonna be kind of running stuff. Yeah, but you know Megan you briefly kind of touched on Kelly's book Drive, which was an awesome listen. I loved it. ⁓ Kelley Miller: Thank you. Amanda Van Den Elzen: You're welcome. You did talk about your work in the merchandising space with NASCAR and kind of how that led into, you you getting your feet wet in the business side in the NASCAR world. And I know that merch is still a big part of the JR Motorsports strategy. What role do you see merch playing in a racer's program? And how can they use that to build stronger connections with fans? Kelley Miller: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, just starting off, you know, it's, you got to have a demand for it, right? So I think that that's important. I don't want to, I would never want to lead anyone down the path to think that, you know, just make some t-shirts and hats and, you know, every, your problems are solved because it's not that simple for sure. It's that dreaded word of inventory, inventory, inventory. I it's important as part of your brand building to do it. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Kelley Miller: and figure out, you know, kind of what the landscape is in your own world for it. You know, I've been trying to figure that out on the off-road stuff, you know, of, what the demand ⁓ is, know, what kind of mix do you need to have in shirts? You know, can you just spring one shirt, have it all year long or, ⁓ you a lot of people have success. I see this a lot in the sprint car world, the dirt car world, high limits and what about lots of stuff is like, you know, they do ⁓ short runs, you know, and it's always like ⁓ a shirt pops up every six or eight weeks, you know, in that world ⁓ for driver ⁓ and quantities kind of ⁓ thing, you know, so, ⁓ you know, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: just trying to figure out what works from that perspective. mean, when I started in the merchandise business for NASCAR, were, mean, you know, it was a huge business. I mean, my dad alone, you know, sold 40, 50, $60 million worth of stuff, you know, in a year. And it's certainly nothing like that anymore these days. I in my opinion, my world, I consumers want it, right? I think, you know, from a grassroots standpoint, you just kind of got to figure out what the audience is, know, what the demand looks like, where can you sell it? It's obviously a lot ⁓ easier ways to sell now through Shopify and different places like that that make it more convenient, you know, to be able to do your own store and web store and things like that. ⁓ know, it's a good part of the brand building piece of it, you know. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, when we launched Racer on Demand, ⁓ which I don't know how familiar you are with it, Kelly, but we do on demand printing for racers merch. So when we launched that, I had this idea and I was just trying to validate, know, what is the disconnect here? What problem am I really trying to solve? And so I reached out to racers and I asked them, you know, like, what problems do you have with merch? What? Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah, yep. Amanda Van Den Elzen: you know, is your struggle here. And almost every single one that I talked to, probably every single one that I talked to said, well, I buy a bunch of stuff and it doesn't sell or I have to tote it around or, you know, becomes outdated. And, and then I talked to fans and 65 % of the fans that I talked to their number one reason for buying merch was because they wanted to financially support the racer. Kelley Miller: ⁓ Yeah. Yep. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: And racers, almost all of them were in deficit when they were selling merch. I was like, this is, this has got to stop. Yeah, that's the problem we got to solve here. So, you know, I just saw how passionate fans were about really wanting to put money into racers pockets and, merch was a drain for racers, but fans were demanding it. So, you know, that's a big part of the reason why we leaned in where we did with the merch side, obviously. Kelley Miller: Yeah, this is not making sense. ⁓ Megan: Yeah. Kelley Miller: Yeah, for them. Amanda Van Den Elzen: My passion is on the sponsorship and marketing side, but I just saw such a huge opportunity there to give racers an option to do it for free, you know? Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah. You know, we do the print on demand for our podcast group. So my brother's the del junior down low bless your heart door bumper clear actions detrimental that Denny Hamlin does a lot of those same thing. You know, people's people are always asking for the merch, you know, is it one person 10 people are 100 it just depends. And so we do the print on demand. It's done really well. And the other thing too is like that Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: you know, instead of just concentrating on where, and I'm learning too, like the difference in what the off-road truck merch looks like than what we're used to in NASCAR and the art designs and what people like. You know, a lot of people come up in the off-road world, they want things that kind of look like the team. You know, they want to kind of look like the team. They don't want like a splashy graphic and that kind of thing. And, but the other thing, and we do this a lot with the podcast parts, and I think racers can do this too, is, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: find those like catchy slogans that, know, ⁓ not just all about your name and the car or whatever, but, ⁓ you know, things that they say through the podcast and all, they'll just do a quick, you know, design. And then that's the print on demand thing, you know, and if you sell five of them, great, sell 10 of them, great, sell a hundred of them, you know, but those quick witty sayings, because everybody kind of likes the lifestyle piece, right? You want to wear something, everybody's different. Some people like really, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Yes. Kelley Miller: know, bold and gaudy things. Some people like really simple and toned down, you know, so you gotta find that vibe and what you're doing there, you know, speaks to that really well to where they can do it without that bad nine-letter word, him and Tori. Him eight-letter word? Eight-letter word. I don't know how many ever letters it is. I think it's nine. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: Yeah, I don't know. Amanda Van Den Elzen: We're gonna be counting on our fingers here soon. Yeah, yeah. Megan: Yeah, yeah. That'll be our next shirt. Yeah, yeah. Well, okay, so Kelly, I do want to kind of circle back because we in the beginning, we talked about like the social media and online presence. So from merch and trying to sell those online, is there anything else that you've seen your drivers do that have really connected with fans and the sponsors online, like when it comes to content and social media and all that? Kelley Miller: Yeah, in a letter word. I think, you know, a lot of it sounds just kind of simple, but I mean, you know, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this and then I'm gonna go, but so I'm sitting here thinking, you know, be approachable, be authentic, have a personality, but don't be boring, you know, but if that's your authentic personal, if that's who you are, then that's hard, right? Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Kelley Miller: But you gotta have a personality and you ⁓ just be able to show people who you are and what you are and what you're about and do that in the most authentic way that makes you comfortable. There's still ways that more shy people can show their personality than ⁓ if you're outgoing or whatever. Yeah, I I think, you know, in our world, there's so much that's expected required a part of the program that we have people all behind the scenes working on. mean, I have, you know, our social media and digital group is for people strong. And that's all they're doing all day is planning, you know, planning content. ⁓ know, when I think about it from if I can put myself like in the shoes of doing it for Wyatt, you know, it's it's tough. you know, all the last several years, I've been the social media person, you know, and had help here or there freelancing, but, you know, it's difficult and you miss that scheduling, you miss that consistency, all of those kinds of things that are important, you know, to especially in the algorithms of social media and all those kinds of things. there's just, you know, there's a lot to it. You know, in everything that I do, try to just, start small. And I think that's a really good piece of advice to the people that you guys are trying to help is like make small goals, know, do something that then just becomes part of your everyday. And when that becomes part of your everyday, then add another something small, you know, I'm through the craze of eating right and doing all the skincare thing and the organic this and the that, the that, you know, I was like, so overwhelmed because it's like, we just got to stop doing everything. Why are everything is going to kill us? Everything's going to make us die. And it's like, just take one thing and change it, you know? And then after you've done that, it sort of becomes a habit and then take one more thing and change it. And then you have another habit, you know? And so I think that's really relevant to the group that you guys are trying to do is like, it's overwhelming. It's big. And so ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: you Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: kind of rank things and do like a pros and cons thing and kind of find that thing that stands out and start there. And then, you know, try to start biting off and tackling more things as they sort of become habits and sort of part of just become what you do every day. Cause it can get extremely overwhelming. I was doing that last year with merch and all that stuff. It's like, you know, Does it make sense that you sell 10 of something versus 100 of something that, know, why do I need to carry this product around just so that I can sell 10 all year, you know, to make 40 bucks, you know, at the end of the day. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. yeah, no I love what you're talking about though with picking out like the most important thing or the thing that's gonna make an impact and just going for that one thing instead of trying to fix everything and ⁓ constantly have to tell myself this because I'm a perfectionist but ⁓ have this little voice in my head that repeatedly says progress not perfection, Amanda. ⁓ think it really comes into play there. ⁓ Megan: Mm. Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: Yeah, it's true. Yeah. It does have a lot of self talks the same way. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. ⁓ So, you know, we've talked a lot in a bunch of different ways about providing value and what sponsors are looking for, how we can provide value for sponsors. But, you know, from your experience, what do sponsors really care about and what's one of those things that racers maybe misunderstand or misinterpret about getting or keeping their sponsors? Kelley Miller: we talked a little bit about ⁓ what do sponsors really want. think it's important for you to know that. I think that's a good question for you to ask before they become your sponsor. ⁓ You know, what are their and what are they looking for? You know, I think within anything, I don't know that I could pinpoint something that what do sponsors really want and where people make mistakes. I think the mistakes are made in not knowing. what they want. The mistakes are made in not communicating after you've gotten the sponsors, know, following up, checking in, ⁓ sending reports, sending whatever you can do, sending recaps, keeping them engaged, you know, I think is important. you know, following just following up and keeping that relationship going back and forth, you know. ⁓ it's never good when you don't communicate back and forth and then all of a sudden the contracts up and you're like, hey, you're ready to give me some money again. And they're like, I hadn't heard from you since about this time last year. You know what? ⁓ You know, so, you know, and that communication's got to flow back and forth in the good and the bad, right? You you think about social media and ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Who are you again? Megan: Yes. Yeah. Kelley Miller: You know, I always struggled sometimes with like putting up race reports or race information for Wyatt after the fact, expect on a bad weekend. And it's like, okay, well, you're going to tell the good, you got to tell the bad, you know, you got to, you got to go both ways. And so, you know, just, um, you know, finding that, finding the ways to be able to let them know what's going on, good and bad, you know, in, those scenarios, I think is important to, you know, communicating that. So yeah, it's just, it's, you know, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: I think the first thing is you got to kind of know what they want and then deliver on that. you can ⁓ forgo maybe a lot of mistakes. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, I love that you said you still have to communicate the bad and do that with grace, right? I saw something somewhere the other day and it just really resonated that your brand is built most in the times that are difficult and you know how you respond to something going poorly oftentimes is what determines your public facing brand and really resonated. Kelley Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Tough times, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. for certain. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: Of course, the one thing that I'm thinking about in that moment, Kelly, is ⁓ ERX with Nick Visser, but... Kelley Miller: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's the hard part. You know, like, I mean, even the even the example that we talked about earlier, me saying, you know, to that reporter, Matt, his name is Wyatt, that spun off in a million different directions with people, you know, and I meant it just as he's got a name, you know, let's call him his name. And it's been often a lot of different directions of people that were like, well, he said his name underneath it. Can't you read? Or people that were like, yeah, that's right. He's got a name. You go, mama. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Megana. Yeah. Yes. Kelley Miller: there like there were all these different you know ways that people interpreted it which is really hard about social media ⁓ and hate that part because you know we can't ever explain enough ⁓ to get to everybody that's gonna read through ⁓ and and it and twist it into their own theory and whatnot so I hate that part about it I hate that part about social media Amanda Van Den Elzen: you Yes. Yes. Kelley Miller: to do that, but you do, you gotta, you know, you gotta gracefully come up with, you know, both the good and the bad and what's working and what's not working. Amanda Van Den Elzen: And sometimes you just have to accept that those are not your people. If they're going to misunderstand you, they are just not your people. Kelley Miller: No, for sure. Absolutely. No, I don't listen to half of them because I mean, they're much, you could stand those people up in front of you and they would never have the balls to speak to you like that in person ever, know, ever. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: Mmm... Mm-hmm. Kelly, again, thank you for joining us today. ⁓ And we ask all of the guests in closing, if you could give grassroots racers ⁓ piece of advice based on what you have all over your years working in this space, what would that be? And Do you have an example of someone who embodied this advice? Kelley Miller: Well, the first thing that came to my mind was really we talked about it a lot is like networking, know, just get it out there working on relationships and, ⁓ and, you just ⁓ using of those relationships the best you can, you know, in terms of trying to further your For me personally, that works in my business part of it. And this isn't really from a grassroots perspective, but is just to really take care of your people. And that mentor for me there was Mr. Rick Hendrick. And when we merged our businesses together in 2018, we had our Xfinity team and Hendrick Motorsports had an Xfinity team. And when Dale went to drive there, we merged both of those teams over here ⁓ Morrisville. ⁓ you know, you, if you take care of your people, the people will take care of you, right? But that can be true too, in the grassroots world and those relationships and back to networking and, you know, giving people the time of the day, whether you got something from them or not that you expected to get, you know, we talked about those intentions at the very beginning, you know, and just because maybe no fruit falls off the tree ⁓ the first conversation that you have, you know, doesn't mean that down the road that it might or might not. And, you know, just, you know. I'm, I don't know, I could go on and on. I'm I'm a true believer in compassion and kindness and, and, you know, just meeting people where they are and all those kinds of things. think you probably can got that from my book, you know, Amanda, one of the, one of the times when Chris and Wyatt, you know, had an incident together from the very first, I mean, we could have got off on a very bad foot, right? We could have, we came over, we talked to you guys, you know, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Kelley Miller: as intimidating as it was because we were new in the space and Wyatt's a young teenager. But that set the tone for our relationship. And if we would have never done that, you how awkward it is just to like pass by those pits and be in that same position. And we've done the same thing with Nick Visser. You're talking about that incident at ERX. mean, got to meet people where they are and realize, Amanda Van Den Elzen: you 100%. Yes. Yes. Kelley Miller: we're all in this together at the end of the day and you don't want to have any, know, those tense moments are difficult and tricky. so, you know, just, yeah, meet people where they are and be upfront and is on the same page as you can with them and recognize that you can, you know, you can agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with that, but at least you talked it out, right? So. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Exactly. Yeah, if it's worth anything, Kelly, that was really intimidating for us, too. Megan: Mm-hmm. Kelley Miller: I was very intimidating for us. ⁓ Amanda Van Den Elzen: ⁓ my gosh, LW and Wyatt are coming over here. But I don't know, Chris is just naturally such a nice, caring person. it was, yes, and it shows. Kelley Miller: No, and so, you know, so are we, right? So, but you know, you, you need to do those things. It could, it could have looked a lot different had we just both ignored the situation and then move on to the next event or the next event or the next event. And, and, you know, you want to just start off fresh at every event, you know, put all that, put anything behind you and move on. And, and, and also you learn that respect, you know, and you learn more about each other and stuff too. So that even a moment like that in the future, you don't take the same. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Yes. ⁓ Yeah. Kelley Miller: because you know more about the person, right? yeah, so. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes, exactly. I love that. That is such great advice. And Kelly, I'm so glad that you were able to come on today. I'm glad you shot me the little Instagram message because you were on our list, but it was like, maybe we'll just wait till our fan base is a little bit bigger. But no, this is perfect. Yes, yes, I love that idea. Yes, but. Kelley Miller: Yeah. Yeah, me too. Thank you guys. can do it again. We can do it again sometime. You're always learning a new insight so yeah definitely. Megan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: So glad that you came on. I sincerely appreciate it. For those listening, we are putting out new episodes every other Thursday. So catch us in just a couple of weeks. But until then, we love you. Bye. Kelley Miller: Yeah, thank you guys. You're welcome. Thank you. Megan: Bye.