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Brain Dollars: The Cost of Workplace Anxiety Management · Work Stress Anxiety | Burnout Prevention & Work Anxiety Help

• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, this is WorkStress Anxiety.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Cheryl Paris and I am joined by Dr.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Vanessa today and um she's got some really interesting ideas.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you understand chronic stress better?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get started.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone, it's Cheryl here.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Work Stress Anxiety.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you've had the kind of day that I have had, you'll be so pleased that we have an amazing guest here today.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome Vanessa.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Vanessa.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're like me sometimes and you're exhausted, but you feel there's technically nothing wrong with you, you'll be so glad that Vanessa is here because she has an amazing concept called brain dollars.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Vanessa, can you explain brain dollars to us?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to imagine that your brain is responsible for everything that it does.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to think about the physiological things.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So the ability to feel touch, for example, your brain is responsible for that.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: The images that we see through our eyes, your brain is making sense of all that sensory input.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's something it does.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Grieving a loss and coping with that, that's something it does.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Going to work and doing all the tasks and maybe managing a really tough boss, that's something it does.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I'm labeling all these things is everything that your brain does, the big, the small, the good, the bad, it's gonna cost it money and it works like real money.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the resources that the brain utilizes are finite.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I make this a big deal is that most people, myself included, feel like we can just keep pushing our brain to do the things we want it to do, no matter how foggy we feel, or like we're lacking concentration, or it's really hard to get going.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have that cup of coffee, we'll have a stimulant, we'll do something to get us engaged, and we just keep pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is we have a brain bank that has a certain amount of money in it.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there are certain things that we do that add money, so those deposits, and then all things it does take money out, even the good things.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if you decide to have brunch with a friend, that's gonna cost brain dollars.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna plan a vacation, that's gonna cost brain dollars.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when people are pushing themselves or holding stress for a long amount of time, it's not one cost.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a cost that accrues day after day after day, which is why often it takes a little while for us to realize that we're becoming depleted.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, that bank had enough money to hold that thing, maybe for a month, maybe for six.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how much was deposited in there.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: But at some point, if you are withdrawing more brain dollars, more brain money than you have saved, you're gonna start to feel that exhaustion, that I don't know what's wrong, but I don't feel right feeling.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think burnout, some anxiety, some depression, not all things like that, but we are not gonna feel our best if we are not making enough deposits to support all the things our brain is doing, but also all the things our brain is carrying.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and chronic stressors is a way that we hemorrhage those brain dollars without even realizing because just holding something that we're not dealing with is gonna cost it something.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting what you say.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like it has an accumulative, almost like a compound interest uh effect, especially when maybe in the workplace when you're dealing with something um like a difficult boss or the the work itself is quite draining for you, that's gonna cost, that's gonna compound um the amount of dollars that you're losing.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's absolutely right.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I would argue potentially that that interest actually goes up over time.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you imagine going to work, and let's say that job, if it wasn't a bad one, was like 100 brain dollars a day.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a bad job, on the back end of that hundred dollars is probably another hundred or another 50 that is just there because you have the job.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So even on a day that you're not going to work, let's say it's Saturday and you don't go back until Monday, the stress of knowing your boss is crazy and you have people that are stealing your work or you have to pull 80 hours Monday to Friday next week, whatever it is, just knowing that you are already stressed on a day that you're not even there,$100 gets taken from the account that day, whether you go to work or not.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: The same thing would be true.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're talking about work, but the same thing would be true of like a bad or a difficult relationship, right?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you're not in an argument with someone, if you're in a relationship closely with someone that's doing toxic, unhealthy things, that's another way that we just hemorrhage these brain dollars because just holding it is enough to have to like withdraw some of our resources.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so what ends up happening, like I was saying, is that the task itself costs money.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then the interest you're describing costs more money.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And over time, we are going to get closer and closer to zero for that brain bank because unfortunately, doing the things that make the deposit are also gonna require a little bit of money.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, exercise is something that is neurologically and psychologically very helpful.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Deciding to do exercise is gonna cost you money to make that decision.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're running out of money, it's really hard to do self-care.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure, I mean, I know I've had that experience where I'm really not doing well, but like the last thing I want to do is like go for a bike ride, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I also know that if I actually got myself to do it, I might feel better afterward.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's this weird thing where you put money in, but then you get even more out.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the difficulty of really heavy things that drain us, is that at some point you're also gonna lose the resources to actually reinvest in yourself.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's why this gets very, very tricky.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you were speaking and I was thinking about that fable.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't remember how it goes.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: The goose and the golden eggs, you know, it's interestingly how the very, the very resource that we have, us, um, we take it for granted for various reasons, and then we don't we don't put that resource, that energy back into ourselves so that we can produce those things.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's really interesting.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: When I was younger, you know, I had a lot of experiences that happened in a really short space of time, and I had to, I upped and left where where I was um b because I thought that I should be able to deal with it, and I didn't want to see anybody, nobody that reminded me of the situation that I was in.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I moved, you know, 50 miles away, and um so that I ended up where I am here.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: But what what I think is really interesting what you say, we can make deposits, and those deposits, I presume we can make them on a daily basis.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and many times a day.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think you know, a lot of self-care that we learn about or that are more common knowledge.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, making healthy decisions when we're eating, making sure we're moving enough, um, journaling, meditating, stretching, yoga, seeing friends, connecting with loved ones, these are all deposits.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then there are also, you know, things that we can do throughout throughout the day that are going to be helpful.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, for some people, clutter, having a lot of things around them, brings stress, but it's also going to take some of those brain dollars to clean it up.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: We have to figure out whether or not keeping your space tidy actually gives you a deposit, or does it just drain you?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, deep breathing, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that I know for myself.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I see patients three times a week.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I will have a very heavy session with someone who's going through something very difficult.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And after that session, and I work from home.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: So after that session, I will just sit at my desk for a few minutes and I'll close my eyes and I have a little essential oil roller, and I'll just, I'll just kind of sit here and just kind of take deep breaths and smell this and give myself a different sensory experience.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's me redepositing a break and some like healing before I log on to my next appointment with who knows what I'm gonna be seeing there.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are moments that you can take regularly, and then there are the things you can do once a day or even maybe once a week.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: The important thing is that we are making regular deposits because we are regularly, if not constantly, making withdrawals.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, can I this may seem like a strange question, but what happens if you get to zero?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's the effect that has on the brain?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when we get to zero, I think that's when we start to see people that are exhausted for no reason.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: The people that are just feeling burnt out, no matter how much rest they get on the weekend, they're still depleted Monday morning.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that makes this so hard is that people get to zero very gradually.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's not overnight.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: If it happened in a moment, we would notice it because the difference between feeling okay and feeling terrible is pretty wide.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is we start to lose those, those dollars a little at a time and then we get used to it, and then we get used to it, and then we get used to it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then by the time we get to zero, it's it's incredibly difficult to identify it and then even do anything about it because we can't even invest in the things that make those deposits back into our into our brain.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really, really important that we try to reflect and take inventory of how we're doing throughout life, not just in the moments when our mind and body is screaming at us to pay attention.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's normally when we look, and then it's like, oh my gosh, I don't even recognize myself, but I don't even know where to start because I don't even remember the last time I felt like me.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the brain is going to do everything it can to keep you going.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it takes our discretion to recognize when it's working really hard or when it's working on empty.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: It you know what I find really, really interesting, and it it's interesting what you say about um how you just take these short, um, for want of a better word, moments between things to uh add deposits.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people um personally, and even just thinking about it, it just makes me feel so sad that they've they're in professions that they've worked so hard to, you know, to get there.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they've been ambitious.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was never ambitious, by the way, when I was when I was younger, not at all.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they they did the hours, they went to university, they went or college, um, they got their you know, their first degree, their master's degree, people like you who've got PhDs have worked so hard to achieve what you've achieved, they were in the job of their dreams and they're miserable, truly miserable.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And because they um, you know, they may have student loans, or by that time they've got families that they feel as if they have to provide for.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I suppose what I'm asking is is there a way that people can reconcile where they are to where they want to be in a in a way that is constructive, do you think?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there are there are two paths, and I think it depends on the options someone is allowing to exist.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So in one version, someone is not going to change the circumstances because they have to stay in that job.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: For example, I I don't know if this is international, but in the United States, after you get your degree, if you work for a nonprofit for 10 years, you have complete loan forgiveness.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there are many people that I know that are in a job they really don't like, but in 10 years, they're not gonna have to pay back a dime.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're like, I'm just gonna keep doing this thing, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there are the folks that are absolutely not going to leave the hard thing and they just have to get through it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll give you one skill for that.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are the folks that if you and this maybe gets into something we'll talk about later, but if you are giving yourself all the options, and if you can tell yourself that you can do any of them, not that some of them might be harder than another, but that you can actually make it through all of them, then I think people would be more willing to change it.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think when people are waiting to be broken to make that decision, there's so much repair individually that needs to happen that's above and beyond your career.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really, really hard because by that point, self-esteem is taking a hit, mental health is on the floor.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think people are people have to make really hard choices and sometimes they have to push themselves through different things.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not here to say that, oh, don't push through.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like there are circumstances where people just have to keep going, and I understand that.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can have the option to change it, my first advice would be if there is something that is depleting you that you do not absolutely have to do, change it.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not worth it, it's too expensive, and it is going to strip you of the thing that you're managing.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: For the people who cannot change that for whatever the reason, one of the quickest, best ways to uh maintain performance metrics and to uh make regular deposits neuropsychologically is to take intentional, regular breaks.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: The reason for this is giving your brain time to be in its kind of neutral state where demand is very, very low.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be asleep, your eyes don't have to be closed, but you know, your mind is just kind of like it's just living, it's just there.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you can put yourself in that state, that state is called the default mode network.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: The reason why that's critical is that that is the state where your memories are more consolidated, where you are processing emotional experiences, where you're having new creative insights.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the time when your brain is refueling the drain of concentration.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to think that concentration and focus in our brain is on like a car gas meter.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: The longer you concentrate, the less gas in the car.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, you got to get to a gas station to refill the tank.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's the default mode network.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you are not taking a break for 15 to 20 minutes when you are fatiguing, you're not going to just be able to push through the fatigue and end up better later.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: You have to give yourself a break so that your mind can kind of consolidate what it's learning, process what it's doing, and actually replenish itself.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because effort does not just push through fatigue for the brain the way that it does for muscles.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're in a situation that you cannot get out of, work or otherwise, I can't overemphasize the importance of taking breaks when you feel like you're you're getting more sluggish, when you're having a hard time engaging, you find yourself rereading the same sentence over and over and you're just not understanding it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: You got to get up and take a minute, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: You got to give yourself a little bit of time because your brain is telling you, hey, I'm running out.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I need you to like make a deposit.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's the time for the break.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting because um one of the things that I um encourage people to do, and I really would like your opinion on this, um, is I encourage people to do actively do random acts of kindness.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I've had a lot of success with people doing doing it.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the things I continue to encourage people to do, but would you call that uh a deposit or a a cost?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably both.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think if the person, so I want to think, I don't know that this is true, but I want to think that everyone values kindness.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if we're thinking about the people that do, then the reason why that's really important is self-esteem is built on actions, not thoughts.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm helping someone build their self-esteem, I want them to do the things that they think a person that values that thing does.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm someone who values kindness, doing an act of kindness is going to make me feel like I'm living in line with my values.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's going to make me feel good.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: That is a deposit, that is a self-esteem hit.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: But we already talked about how everything our brain does is also an investment.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's one of the examples where it's going to cost a little money to do the act, but you might get back five or six times more by doing it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: But this is the vicious cycle that if you get that bank to zero, you don't have any resources left to even put five or six brain dollars in to get 30 back.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is why it's so important to monitor yourself over time to make sure that we're not getting close to zero, because then it's very hard to take care of ourselves in ways, ways that are meaningful.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: But absolutely, acts of kindness is a great way to both deposit for yourself, but also maybe even give someone else a deposit.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, before we go, Vanessa, I would like to ask you, what is your favorite type of deposits that you think people can do in uh especially in the work environment?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't been asked that question before.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so before uh you finish the sentence by saying in the work environment, my first thought was every night my husband and I do something called dance party with my one-year-old.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: That is, I think, my highest deposit.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at work, particularly for my line of work, um, where I am, I have the privilege and responsibility of sitting with people in very, very difficult moments.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think for me, regularly reminding myself to breathe deeply and to kind of stretch and just like really kind of be in my body in a way where I'm not numbing, I'm not scrolling on my phone.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that for me, because of my line of work is where I make the most regular deposits because I think I'm having to make so many withdrawals during the day, kind of managing and helping people with their things.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's probably across disciplines that deep breathing, taking breaks, making sure that you're not losing yourself in the problems that you're dealing with, but actually like trying to stay grounded in yourself.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are probably some of my favorite.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank you very much, Vanessa, for being here and sharing all what you have today, especially your brain daughters.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, thank you, Vanessa.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, Vanessa is truly amazing.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope um you take away a lot from this episode.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Her brain dollars idea is such, to me, such a practical way of noticing where your energy is going.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, remember, all guest links are available in the show notes.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So bye for now.