Latest / The MindSets Podcast / How Charlie Botterill Ran 54:38 - Full Training Breakdown | MindSets Podcast | Episode 81

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How Charlie Botterill Ran 54:38 - Full Training Breakdown | MindSets Podcast | Episode 81 · The MindSets Podcast

• 0:11
  Welcome back to another episode of the Mindsets podcast.
• 0:14
  A lot of you will be tuning in having listened to the last
• 0:16
  episode, which I'm glad to see you back.
• 0:18
  Charles, any updates from you? I'm glad to see him back as
• 0:21
  well. Charlie, any updates from you?
• 0:24
  Had a really good pee in the break and that was about it.
• 0:27
  Lovely. There we go.
• 0:28
  That's the news for this week, actually.
• 0:30
  Just joking. We're going to run you through a
• 0:32
  quick NEWS UPDATE, or I'll do it because this was filmed a few
• 0:35
  weeks back. So here's some live update on
• 0:37
  the news. You're going to give me the 2
• 0:38
  minute countdown still anyway. 321.
• 0:41
  OK bear with me because I know you came here for Charlie and
• 0:43
  we're going to get straight back to that episode.
• 0:45
  But first and foremost Charlie won Glasgow high rocks this
• 0:47
  weekend setting a personal best time of 5438 crazy looking
• 0:51
  really good shape ahead of the elite 15 regionals this coming
• 0:54
  weekend. Next up, F-45 have released
• 0:56
  their own hybrid race called Peak 500, backed by Red Bull.
• 1:00
  Must be something pretty good going on there.
• 1:02
  In the rugby this past weekend, France had a very narrow victory
• 1:05
  over England and then we had Wales beating Italy and Ireland
• 1:10
  beating Scotland more convincingly in the Paralympics.
• 1:13
  They came to a close. China absolutely dominated the
• 1:16
  whole scene with 44 medals. GB did come away with one medal.
• 1:19
  It was a silver medal in the para skiing that went to Neil
• 1:21
  Simpson. Thai Pagacha is back, ladies and
• 1:24
  gentlemen. He's looking very strong ahead
• 1:26
  of another Tour de France. He has just won the Strata.
• 1:28
  Bianchi. Really apologize for my Italian
• 1:31
  there for a record 4th time not been done before.
• 1:35
  Chelsea have won the Woman's League Cup, they beat Manchester
• 1:39
  United 2 nil in the final this past Sunday.
• 1:41
  And then Arsenal on the flip side in the men's game are
• 1:44
  looking like they are actually going to take home the Premier
• 1:46
  League title this season as long as they continue to do the bare
• 1:49
  minimum. Adidas have released their first
• 1:52
  hybrid shoe officially. This actually happened a few
• 1:55
  weeks ago, but eyes are on the lookout for people like on Nike,
• 1:59
  maybe even Puma to release a new shoe, even though they've just
• 2:01
  released another one a few months back as well.
• 2:03
  So lots of space there. Now if you're thinking what
• 2:05
  shoes should I be racing in, maybe you shouldn't be thinking
• 2:07
  just about the shoes. Maybe you should also be
• 2:09
  thinking about what goes inside the shoes.
• 2:12
  So if you are looking for grip socks, which can make you feel a
• 2:14
  bit more grounded in your race shoes, then I have to recommend
• 2:17
  high socks. We are fortunately sponsored by
• 2:19
  them, so if you want to use Mindset 15, then you can get
• 2:22
  yourself 15% off in the discount.
• 2:24
  They also do some other things over at high Style.
• 2:26
  So if you like nose tape and you want to give that a go this
• 2:28
  season, then absolutely do it. It should get there in time for
• 2:31
  the latter races in London or if you're doing races like Cardiff
• 2:35
  or any others later this season, I would thoroughly recommend
• 2:37
  giving them a go now while you're here, if I can grab your
• 2:39
  attention, if you haven't already, hit the subscribe
• 2:42
  button on Charlie Bottles channel.
• 2:43
  If you can also do the same on the mindsets podcast channel,
• 2:46
  follow us on socials. I would absolutely love it and
• 2:48
  that is all I'm going to take of your time.
• 2:50
  Back to the episode. Incredible show business.
• 2:53
  Anyway, what we'll always be doing is we'll move.
• 2:55
  Now onto the Grind My Gears. We got that wrong last episode.
• 2:58
  We didn't near the back end, but we're going to do it in its
• 3:00
  rightful place. Grind my gears.
• 3:02
  Anyone else want to start us off this week?
• 3:04
  Charlie Joanie. Fresh Ones.
• 3:07
  People who don't walk in straight lines.
• 3:10
  So good, so good. We're like, you're walking up
• 3:14
  behind someone. They're walking a bit slow,
• 3:15
  which you can appreciate because I'm a quite, quite a fast
• 3:18
  Walker. And then you go to like overtake
• 3:21
  on their left and then all of a sudden bang.
• 3:24
  And then you're like, oh, and it catches you off guard.
• 3:26
  And then you go right and they're like, oh, bang.
• 3:28
  And then you just don't know what to do.
• 3:30
  And then you have to walk out onto the road.
• 3:32
  Not safe. Yeah, and then they look at you
• 3:34
  like, why are you walking on the road?
• 3:35
  You could have just cost me in that space there, do you know?
• 3:38
  What I've never really thought about it, I I often find myself
• 3:40
  in London walking on the road just because it's so much
• 3:42
  easier. I know no one's going to walk
• 3:43
  into me there. I just have to be aware of cars,
• 3:45
  and cars are way more predictable oddly than the
• 3:47
  general public. Well, it's like people on their
• 3:48
  phones, especially like walking towards you looking at their
• 3:52
  phone. Why am I getting out of your
• 3:54
  when you walk like left to get out of their way and then they
• 3:57
  meow on the left? Is this awkward?
• 3:59
  Like coming together. On their phone.
• 4:02
  Just stop. The stopping is not because
• 4:04
  we've done this one before. Walkers I think they just take
• 4:07
  up the into a pavement for no reason.
• 4:09
  Yeah, you need like indicators on the pavement so bad on on
• 4:13
  that, because mine's also quite niche.
• 4:15
  But it's also to do with people walking, funnily enough.
• 4:18
  It's etiquette on the stairs on the tube, because I'm not, I'm
• 4:23
  not a lift guy, I'm not an escalator guy.
• 4:25
  If there's an option to do the emergency stairs, I'm taking it
• 4:29
  now because that will spiral. The inside of the stairs are
• 4:33
  really narrow and the outside are really wide.
• 4:36
  Going down narrow stairs is treacherous, but going up is
• 4:40
  fine. So always keep to the left.
• 4:43
  But so many times recently I've been like pushed onto the inside
• 4:46
  of people coming up on the outside.
• 4:48
  So now I'm going to have to risk my life going down like these
• 4:50
  tiny little steps, whereas I should be walking down on the
• 4:53
  outside and public service announcement for everyone
• 4:57
  listening. That's the etiquette.
• 4:59
  I also interesting I'm going to put in something that in a gym
• 5:03
  it's the reverse if there's an inside and outside because a gym
• 5:06
  hasn't got a spiral staircase. Usually you should be letting
• 5:09
  the person that's clearly trained legs already coming down
• 5:13
  the stairs and has less control. They should have the inside line
• 5:17
  on like the stairs. They should always be allowed to
• 5:18
  be on the inside so they don't have to like.
• 5:20
  Go as far. Go as far and reach across the
• 5:23
  the thing that I did have a bit of a nightmare actually on the
• 5:25
  way in on the tube today. I'm so used to being the person
• 5:29
  that goes on the escalator and walks up the stairs rather than
• 5:32
  just standing there waiting for the world to pass.
• 5:35
  I had a suitcase full of lighting equipment to get here.
• 5:38
  So I like got annoyed at everyone that was queuing to go
• 5:40
  and stand still on an escalator. And I got myself on the left
• 5:43
  like I normally do and then realized I had way too much
• 5:45
  stuff to be trying to walk past everybody.
• 5:47
  So then I had to cut into the. Yeah, that's tough.
• 5:52
  On this one occasion you're let off because you have to carry
• 5:54
  all the equipment by yourself. I did.
• 5:56
  I've got some people that have written in.
• 6:00
  This one's great. Dry row Wankers is there I think
• 6:05
  the appropriate tab for them. Yeah, like you, you go to
• 6:09
  Sainsbury's in the morning and you've just got someone in a dry
• 6:11
  robe and it's like, oh, you have a nice swim in the lake.
• 6:14
  No, I just like this. No, but do you know, do you know
• 6:16
  what right. I, I don't want to defend them.
• 6:19
  I don't want to defend them. But every time I see someone in
• 6:21
  a dry robe I go God, I bet it's warm.
• 6:26
  It's a glorified dressing gown outdoors.
• 6:28
  No, you're not convincing me otherwise that you haven't
• 6:31
  showered today. You've rolled out of bed and you
• 6:33
  think it's acceptable to turn up like that?
• 6:35
  That is wild. I get it.
• 6:38
  I can understand why people get upset with that.
• 6:40
  Have you seen, do you know the brand through Dark that does
• 6:43
  like it's like military stuff. They have they, they don't call
• 6:48
  it a a dry robe. They call it like a smock or
• 6:51
  something like a tactical smock. And like the advertising is very
• 6:55
  much, this is not a dry robe. And it's like, this is a piece
• 6:59
  of equipment that was like designed for the military and it
• 7:01
  goes over your equipment and it's, it's a dry robe, but it's
• 7:06
  not, it's a smock. It's just, but that would be
• 7:08
  even worse if you saw someone wearing the tactical military
• 7:12
  specific smock as a dry robe. In Sainsbury's would probably be
• 7:17
  the pinnacle of that grime idea. Yeah, it's almost more icky if
• 7:20
  you're wearing the non dry robe in the same way that people
• 7:22
  would wear a dry robe. It's like people that have gone
• 7:25
  onto wish.com and bought the built for athletes bag just so
• 7:27
  you don't have to buy a built for athletes bag.
• 7:29
  But it's the exact same thing. You take up as much room as
• 7:31
  anyone else with the right athletes bag.
• 7:34
  One more that I got was people who stretch on the sled track in
• 7:39
  gyms. Yeah.
• 7:41
  About as close to home. Or people that have no spatial
• 7:48
  awareness and they just walk in front of the sled as you're
• 7:50
  pushing it. But surely you just keep going.
• 7:52
  Oh yeah, and then when you pads their ankles and they look at
• 7:54
  that, you like, oh, what was that for?
• 7:57
  So what? You are on a sleds track.
• 7:59
  Off the back of that high rocks photographers that aren't
• 8:02
  watching what's going on with your sled.
• 8:04
  Like they assume that because someone came in two seconds
• 8:07
  before you, you're not going to catch them on the sled.
• 8:10
  But like they might be resting every 3rd, I might not be
• 8:12
  resting for the first length. I've just run into your ankle.
• 8:15
  And no I wasn't going to shout warning.
• 8:17
  Get out of the way. Yeah, I've, I've had, I've had
• 8:19
  photographers like even like foot on sled or like standing
• 8:23
  right in front of the pole or whatever.
• 8:24
  Thoughts on someone that has clearly done way too many
• 8:26
  hierarchies to count at this point It's got to be like near
• 8:28
  70 something or 18. Just over 70, yeah.
• 8:31
  Wild. Are there any favorite shots
• 8:35
  that photographers gave you? Do you like the one where they
• 8:37
  shoved the camera in your face on the sled push?
• 8:39
  They back in the day. Here we go.
• 8:43
  Back in the day they used to have little cameras up by the
• 8:45
  warble targets. I think they call them like
• 8:49
  spider cams and it'll take a photo like as you're throwing
• 8:52
  the warble up. They were great because you've
• 8:54
  got some great photo like faces. They're just.
• 8:56
  Standing like this, they don't. Understand that they're like
• 8:58
  little helmets on and take photos like like that but now I
• 9:04
  I don't really purchase the like higher ox photos anymore
• 9:08
  because. Me now.
• 9:09
  I don't have. To follow you around with a
• 9:10
  camera. But it is kind of some of them,
• 9:12
  like some of them are great, but some of them are just like spam
• 9:15
  and hope. I do love that thought of you
• 9:17
  finish your Elite 15 race and then we're like, would you like
• 9:20
  to purchase the photo package? Yeah, 2499.
• 9:25
  That would be so good. Anymore frame more on the grind
• 9:28
  my gear. I it annoys me when people track
• 9:31
  their sauna on Strava. What?
• 9:34
  Yeah, you've seen people do that.
• 9:35
  Yeah, mate, you. How?
• 9:37
  How? Here we go.
• 9:37
  How else do you reckon I get to my training volume?
• 9:40
  No, I don't. I don't.
• 9:41
  Yeah, it's like. Like a morning sauna.
• 9:43
  And I'm like, why are you tracking that on Strava?
• 9:46
  I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah.
• 9:47
  Where is it? It annoys me.
• 9:49
  I'm damn right you shouldn't really.
• 9:51
  Don't you what you get into zone 2 in your sauna sessions?
• 9:55
  Soon enough, soon enough, people are going to have everything on
• 9:59
  Strava. Oh yeah, breakfast, Strava.
• 10:01
  Yeah, shower stronger. Interestingly, you know, some
• 10:05
  people have like auto activated workouts.
• 10:07
  I do know someone who has had an accidental automated active
• 10:11
  workout with a partner at like 12:30 at night.
• 10:15
  Yeah. And then they woke up the next
• 10:17
  morning to all of the. Kudos.
• 10:18
  Yeah, yeah. On the baby making because.
• 10:20
  We, we, I thought you were going to be on like skipping.
• 10:24
  No, no, no, no. That's what I do at 12:30 at
• 10:26
  night. Keep eyes off Charlie Strava
• 10:30
  late at night. You have to, like, change it to
• 10:32
  something like complete, like tactical fitness or something,
• 10:34
  yeah. Complete Had a nightmare
• 10:36
  sleepwalking. Sleepwalking.
• 10:38
  High intensity interval training.
• 10:39
  Yeah, 7 seconds. Now I think unless anyone does
• 10:44
  have any more, we can move into the topic of today, which I
• 10:46
  think a lot of people listening or watching will be most excited
• 10:49
  about, which is actually getting to the nitty gritty of your
• 10:51
  training because we get teased with it on social media.
• 10:54
  But we are here to ask some of the questions we want to know.
• 10:57
  Now, you have spoken a lot on social media before about your
• 11:00
  cycling background and how that enables you to train probably
• 11:04
  more than a lot of people would like to, but we want to know a
• 11:08
  little bit more about that briefly.
• 11:09
  So back when you were pro cyclist, Charlie, what did that
• 11:14
  actually look like in training in terms of like volume, what
• 11:17
  those sessions might look like? I know you've got on your phone,
• 11:21
  you told us just before we started recording.
• 11:23
  How many years worth of workout data have you got on that?
• 11:26
  Nearly 10 years I've got on my. That's.
• 11:28
  Crazy my device here so I have got It's going to take me about
• 11:36
  30 seconds. To 20 of those 30 seconds,
• 11:41
  having got to know Charlie and even for Charles today probably
• 11:45
  has realized that Charlie is incredibly data-driven.
• 11:48
  So like he hasn't just got the data of 10 years on his phone.
• 11:52
  He actively goes through it and reads everything.
• 11:54
  And it's really important with his watch and having all of his
• 11:58
  heart rate stuff when he wants one of those workouts to be able
• 12:00
  to like look back on it and then plan the next workout.
• 12:02
  Because correct me if I'm wrong Charlie, you are still self
• 12:06
  coached. I am still self coached.
• 12:09
  Which for like an elite level and performing as you are, is
• 12:12
  actually quite impressive. We'll play a little game.
• 12:16
  OK. With with you too.
• 12:18
  Guess how many hours of data I have got on my training
• 12:23
  software. Across 10 years.
• 12:25
  Across since the 1st of January 2014.
• 12:30
  Oh my word. Even like considering now I'd
• 12:37
  imagine you're in and around like 18 to 20 ish hours a week,
• 12:43
  maybe more. Is that roughly?
• 12:45
  More. Yeah, more.
• 12:46
  Well, you're on, I think you're probably on like 22 to 23 now.
• 12:50
  This this week will be like 2627.
• 12:53
  OK, OK. And then judging, let's say,
• 12:57
  because like you can go for a bike ride and it can be like 6
• 13:00
  to 8 hours. We're analyzing.
• 13:01
  We're going to be wrong. To make it easier, we'll go in
• 13:04
  the last five years. So this is like High Rock?
• 13:07
  So from February 2021. So that was my.
• 13:11
  Can I get my? Calculator out.
• 13:13
  You're going to be wrong. Anyway, I'm going to go I.
• 13:15
  Want to be close though. I'm going to go and say that you
• 13:19
  have done 18,000 hours. Wait across 10 years.
• 13:28
  Across. Five years that many?
• 13:33
  Nah, I'm going to, I'm going to be under half that, but I'm
• 13:37
  going to go up. Oh I was going to say like 5.2
• 13:40
  was my guess. Close 4131 hours.
• 13:43
  You're not training enough for me.
• 13:45
  That's what I've discovered. What?
• 13:47
  Was it for the 10 years? It was like 6000 something.
• 13:51
  That's still wild. I don't I 18,000.
• 13:53
  I didn't really think that's true.
• 13:54
  I should have used my calculator if I used it, but yeah.
• 13:56
  Slagging me off. Sorry.
• 13:58
  OK. So if we're looking then at your
• 14:01
  cycling training across a week, you've just said, and we'll
• 14:03
  catch up to this where you're saying that you've done like 26
• 14:06
  to 27 hours this week, but like when you were cycling, obviously
• 14:09
  you're quite a lot younger as well.
• 14:11
  What was the volume of training and like?
• 14:13
  What was the balance of training in terms of intensity?
• 14:16
  So in from the 1st of January to the 31st of December in 2020, so
• 14:24
  the COVID year I did 855 hours of training and 707 hours of
• 14:31
  that was in zone 2. Wow.
• 14:34
  So 84% was in Zone 2. Can you remember back to the
• 14:38
  forecast where we talked about Christian Bloomfeld and we're
• 14:41
  talking about percentage split between easy and hard?
• 14:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was talking about like,
• 14:46
  I'd say the majority of their trainings, like 8020, which is
• 14:50
  like 85%. There's basically I said even
• 14:53
  like elite level might even be a bit higher, like 90%.
• 14:56
  But yeah, it's mental. Yeah.
• 14:58
  So go back and listen to that episode as well.
• 15:00
  Yeah, because that was, that was the world record VO2 Max.
• 15:02
  If anyone's wondering who on earth Christian Blumenfeld was,
• 15:04
  because you don't know about triathlon.
• 15:06
  But yeah, 101 VO 2 Max score. And this also ties into, again,
• 15:10
  this is a bit of a tangent. This ties into a video idea that
• 15:13
  we've got for Charlie at some point is to go and get his
• 15:14
  tested. If you would like to see that,
• 15:17
  then smash subscribe on Charlie's channel because.
• 15:21
  Will happen soon. It will happen soon anyway.
• 15:24
  So back to the the intensity levels, you obviously said there
• 15:27
  that 82% of it you said was Zone 2. 84% in 20. 20 Now you've
• 15:31
  mentioned something recently on your social media about your
• 15:34
  zone 2 and your zones are different from like you have a
• 15:38
  zone, you have zone powers on a bike, and you have zones aerobic
• 15:42
  lead. You want to kind of explain that
• 15:43
  to people? So I'm much more efficient on a
• 15:47
  bike than I am any other piece of kit, and my Zone 2 power is
• 15:56
  my Zone 1 heart rate. At the start.
• 16:00
  Obviously you get cardiac drift where your heart beats more
• 16:04
  times per minute for a given power the further you get into
• 16:07
  an activity. But my Zone 2 powers my zone 1
• 16:12
  heart rate. So if I post like 2 hours zone 2
• 16:16
  bike and 85% of it is in zone 1, I get people like you're not in
• 16:21
  zone 2 and I'm like I'm not in zone 2 heart rate.
• 16:25
  I am in power and it's like but your heart needs to be in zone 2
• 16:29
  and it's like it's different because that your heart rate can
• 16:33
  change depending on. So many factors.
• 16:35
  So many different factors and your.
• 16:37
  Own style factors and etcetera, etcetera.
• 16:39
  And like your zone 2 power is going to stay pretty consistent.
• 16:45
  But yeah, like I kind of flip flop between zone 1 and zone 2
• 16:48
  quite a lot just because I'll always be an upper zone one or
• 16:52
  lower zone 2 for all of my aerobic work.
• 16:54
  So what does a zone 1 heart rate, zone 2 power look like
• 16:59
  numbers wise? Just so people can recognize
• 17:01
  that when they see what you're doing on your story a little bit
• 17:02
  easier. So on on Tuesday this week I did
• 17:12
  a 2 hour zone 2 bike ride and my power for that ride was 235
• 17:23
  watts. I want to say 230 something
• 17:26
  watts which is zone 2. But then my average heart rate
• 17:32
  was where is it 118 beats a minute?
• 17:36
  I'd I'd challenge anyone listening to just go and sit on
• 17:39
  the C2 but I assume it's C2 bike.
• 17:41
  Go and sit on the C2 bike at 230 watts and just see what your
• 17:45
  heart rate does, especially for two hours.
• 17:46
  Would be really interesting. I spend one hour and 41 minutes
• 17:50
  in zone 1 heart rate and then 18 minutes in zone 2 heart rate.
• 17:55
  So like, again, we're seeing an insight there into like the
• 17:57
  cycling brain a little bit because was that something that
• 17:59
  was instilled on you when you were doing the cycling is to
• 18:02
  have the separation of an aerobic zone and a power zone?
• 18:06
  Or have you kind of developed that based on your own ability?
• 18:09
  I just, yeah, it's the same from cycling.
• 18:11
  So I just use my FTP from cycling in that like.
• 18:17
  What I'm interested in, because you mentioned FTP, what your FTP
• 18:21
  looks like now versus when you were cycling, is there a massive
• 18:26
  difference? So I did a 20 minute power test
• 18:31
  in, I want to say August, so quite a while ago, and that was
• 18:39
  higher than I ever did as a cyclist.
• 18:41
  Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? But I am 25 kilos heavier.
• 18:44
  That was what I was going to say and this strength work you're
• 18:47
  probably doing now as well as helpful and.
• 18:49
  Yeah, like I've just aerobically, I would say I'm
• 18:52
  fitter now than I was when I was a cyclist.
• 18:55
  And when we go later into the chat, in terms of like volume
• 18:58
  and whatnot, last year, the total volume and hours I did
• 19:03
  last year was way more than anything I did as a cyclist.
• 19:09
  But yeah, like when you, when you're specific to that one
• 19:12
  sport, you get very good at it. But in high rocks, which I do
• 19:15
  now, you have to be good across the board.
• 19:18
  So I think, yeah. And then in terms of your
• 19:22
  knowledge around training, I know we're going a little bit
• 19:24
  off here, but where does that come from?
• 19:27
  What? Remind me what you did at uni
• 19:28
  was it it wasn't anything sports science this.
• 19:31
  Actually was going to be my next question to bring us along.
• 19:34
  The story was when you left cycling behind, part of what was
• 19:37
  going on with you was you also had an eating disorder, which
• 19:40
  you you've spoken about before was anorexia, but then you also
• 19:42
  discovered high rocks. So you have kind of you've left
• 19:46
  cycling behind in that method of training.
• 19:47
  You've got hierarchs, which you're kind of trying to figure
• 19:50
  out how to train for. And at the time isn't a big
• 19:52
  enough sport that there is like a blueprint for training, but
• 19:55
  then you're having to manage your nutrition as well.
• 19:57
  So like when you went to university and you were, did you
• 20:00
  immediately decide that hierarchs is a thing around the
• 20:02
  same sort of time? So I went to uni in September
• 20:07
  2021 and I first heard of Hierarchs in about May 2022 from
• 20:14
  but I gave myself a year essentially to get as strong as
• 20:18
  possible because I was like, I, it was a very much like I woke
• 20:22
  up one day and I was like, but I'm not doing this side thing
• 20:25
  again. I want to be just happy, healthy
• 20:29
  and strong. And I put on like 35 kilos I
• 20:32
  think. It wasn't a year.
• 20:35
  And then six months into that I discovered high rocks.
• 20:38
  So I started training for I started running again, started
• 20:41
  doing like cardiovascular fitness and then did my first
• 20:45
  one in November 2022. So when you decided the harvest
• 20:52
  was going to be a sport and one of the questions that we
• 20:54
  actually had from someone that wrote in and because of the
• 20:56
  topic, I've decided to keep them anonymous.
• 20:57
  But thoughts on nutrition and overcoming eating disorders with
• 21:02
  the style of training that you're going into, obviously you
• 21:04
  were doing endurance sport with cycling anyway.
• 21:05
  You need to consume a lot of calories and you need to be
• 21:07
  eating the right things to fuel that performance.
• 21:09
  With high rocks at the time, were you like, OK, for this
• 21:14
  sport, maybe I need to put on some more muscle because it
• 21:16
  seems like on the face of it, there's more strength work.
• 21:19
  So did you just go right? Yes, I'm going to give myself 12
• 21:21
  months, but I'm going to give myself 12 months to get hella
• 21:24
  strong and put on some serious muscle mass.
• 21:26
  And was that how you sort of or or how did you manage that with
• 21:30
  the fact that you were coming off the back of or still
• 21:32
  suffering with anorexia? So like at that, like university
• 21:38
  changed my life. It's probably the that's the the
• 21:43
  car and drive it. And when I went there, like
• 21:47
  nobody knew who I was. And I'm a mentally I'm, I'm
• 21:54
  different in the sense that I can very much go from one thing
• 22:01
  to another. And I was like, I've suffered
• 22:05
  with this my whole life and I've kind of is now.
• 22:08
  It was my identity and when I was a cyclist and whatnot, I was
• 22:11
  like, everyone knew me as that guy who was a cyclist and
• 22:15
  whatnot and he didn't really socialize.
• 22:17
  He'd stayed at home kind of thing.
• 22:19
  But then I went to uni and it was like it was my one
• 22:22
  opportunity to kind of start afresh.
• 22:25
  And as I still kind of even to this day, like I don't like the
• 22:30
  way I look. I never, I've never liked the
• 22:33
  way I look. And it's something that like, if
• 22:36
  you look at me now compared to me six years ago, I'm a
• 22:40
  completely different person. So it's never like completely
• 22:45
  gone away. But I'm, I'm over that whole
• 22:47
  like anorexia thing. And it happened quite quickly.
• 22:50
  I was like, I just, I knew I needed a change and I knew it
• 22:53
  needed to be fairly quick. So yeah, when I went to uni, I
• 22:57
  kind of just decided that like, I just don't want to be like
• 23:01
  that anymore. And I don't want to keep on
• 23:03
  living being worried about every meal or every gram of food and
• 23:08
  whatnot. I like, I really appreciate you
• 23:10
  talking about it, but it's like, do you ever now look at yourself
• 23:14
  and go, I appreciate my body so much for what it allows me to
• 23:19
  do. And it's kind of given me this
• 23:21
  opportunity to perform at the top level because it's like I
• 23:25
  have that conversation with so many of my clients where there's
• 23:28
  always this certain motivation around training for aesthetics.
• 23:34
  And I'm from the perspective of you want to think about your
• 23:39
  body is this thing that allows you to perform and training for
• 23:43
  performance and fuelling for performance as well.
• 23:46
  Has that has Hyrox helped shift your mindset a little bit?
• 23:50
  Yeah, I've, I've always known how important fuelling for
• 23:55
  performance is. And Hyrox is similar and
• 24:04
  different cycling, like you don't need to eat as much during
• 24:07
  the event. But I've been able to actually
• 24:15
  when I had anorexia, like I knew how to fuel for performance, but
• 24:20
  I just wouldn't because that's the whole issue, that's the
• 24:23
  whole thing. But now I'm over that and in
• 24:27
  high rocks like now know everything about how to fuel and
• 24:32
  I can actually now fuel because my head's in the right space.
• 24:38
  And I think, well, I can just tell in my performances and
• 24:42
  training and racing that it's it's helped and that way better
• 24:46
  performance wise now than I was. So if we talk about the way that
• 24:50
  you train, I think a lot of people will have discovered high
• 24:54
  rocks in the last five years. And a lot of those people that
• 24:56
  have raced have not come from anything necessarily close to
• 25:00
  high rocks. Some that have come from like
• 25:02
  cross training, CrossFit kind of thing.
• 25:04
  Other people like myself came from American football, I know
• 25:07
  other people that have come from swimming, people that have come
• 25:09
  from rowing. And what I think is really cool
• 25:13
  and really interesting about the sport at the moment is even at
• 25:15
  the elite level, everyone's still got their own training
• 25:16
  methodology. So you've still you, you've
• 25:18
  spoken about it to a few people about how Alice Runkovic still
• 25:22
  does like 14 hour weeks. He knows what works well for
• 25:24
  him. It's high intensity and then
• 25:25
  recovery for you based on your background with endurance
• 25:29
  cycling. There's a lot of volume in
• 25:30
  there. With someone like Dylan Scott,
• 25:32
  he spends a lot of time on a rowing machine and everyone's
• 25:35
  kind of got their own method, but you all seem to be running
• 25:37
  pretty similar times. But when you discovered the
• 25:40
  sport like me, what were you doing with your training?
• 25:44
  Because I, I don't know if you were mature enough to be like,
• 25:47
  well, biking works for me. I think biking is going to be
• 25:49
  pretty good because when I came into the sport, this is also How
• 25:51
  I Met Charles, by the way, Charles was running high rocks
• 25:54
  classes, which I think is probably a very common way that
• 25:56
  people discover the sport and think that that's a great way of
• 25:58
  training for it. I was doing one or two of those
• 26:00
  classes a week thinking I'm getting pretty fun class at this
• 26:04
  sport, like maybe I'm going to be great at it because I played
• 26:07
  American football. Why?
• 26:08
  And if I draw the two together, it is what it is.
• 26:11
  But I just started like doing those classes and thinking that
• 26:13
  was going to make me really good.
• 26:14
  Did my first race and did better than I probably expected to.
• 26:18
  And I also realized at the exact same instant that doing classes
• 26:22
  that weren't focusing necessarily on my weaknesses all
• 26:24
  the time wasn't going to make me faster.
• 26:27
  So when you went in, you gave yourself a year before you did
• 26:30
  your first race. So going into that first race
• 26:34
  and then coming out of it, were you like I did that all wrong or
• 26:37
  did was that the foundation of your training for what it is
• 26:39
  now? I'd say, yeah, probably the
• 26:42
  latter. Like when is that first race
• 26:45
  confident in my ability? And I got very much humbled
• 26:50
  because I went at first, I went out way too hot.
• 26:52
  Shock. The shock thing you do in your
• 26:54
  first race, I think I won the skier get that event and I think
• 26:59
  it's like my third or fourth fastest ski I've ever done in a
• 27:03
  high rocks. That's so jokes because it's
• 27:07
  your first one and like if you look at my mail once again, that
• 27:11
  was slower than what I did in London XL, which kind of shows
• 27:17
  everything. But yeah.
• 27:20
  And then like going out of that, I I learned a little bit more on
• 27:24
  how to train. I want to race again.
• 27:27
  I learned a little bit more. I raced again.
• 27:29
  I found out what because my weakness, what's my strength?
• 27:33
  And then I think I'd say after my third race is when it kind of
• 27:39
  like I started to actually know how things click.
• 27:42
  So like my third race are still do like a one hour, one hour and
• 27:49
  10 minutes. I think it was in the men's open
• 27:52
  and I was like, right, I need to actually because I'd the
• 27:57
  university I went to had a great like gym for high rocks
• 28:01
  downstairs. All the other students hated it
• 28:03
  because it's like there's no strength equipment.
• 28:05
  It's just two assault runners, 2 ski oaks, 2 rowers, an assault
• 28:11
  bike, a couple walls and some like dumbbells.
• 28:17
  And most of my training was 1K run, 1K ski, 1K run, 1K row, 1K
• 28:22
  run, 1K ski, 1K run, 1K row kind of thing.
• 28:27
  And I knew that I kind of needed to expand on that.
• 28:29
  And then from my third race to my fourth race, I went down to
• 28:34
  1:04 men's open. And that was when I started to
• 28:38
  actually realize how like, like what goes into high rocks
• 28:44
  training. But in all honesty, I just
• 28:47
  didn't have the time to train like I was at uni.
• 28:51
  And five or six days a week, it would be, oops, well, five days
• 28:58
  a week could be like, wake up at half five, train from 6 to 8,
• 29:04
  shower 8, go from uni from go to uni from like 9:00 to 1:00, and
• 29:09
  then go to work from half one to about 11:00 at night.
• 29:13
  And I just frankly didn't have the time to train.
• 29:16
  I knew how it was going to work and I knew that once I got the
• 29:20
  opportunity to train more and train more effectively, I would
• 29:23
  be getting better. But yeah, from then until like
• 29:29
  middle of 2024, I just didn't have the time to train.
• 29:32
  But you're obviously like very numbers driven.
• 29:35
  You have all of your data from X amount of years.
• 29:38
  I'm just like interested to know where you're like learning about
• 29:43
  training and like you're just trying and testing different
• 29:47
  things on yourself or you're reading about it or you're
• 29:49
  watching stuff about it. Like where are you getting that
• 29:52
  information from? Yeah, I love like I I genuinely
• 29:58
  love and have a passion for learning about how the body
• 30:01
  works and what training works. Like if you look at my YouTube
• 30:04
  subscriptions list, it's just triathletes, runners, cyclists,
• 30:09
  hierarchs, athletes, ultra runners.
• 30:11
  It's just all of them. And I never get bored of
• 30:14
  watching videos on how other people train like the science
• 30:18
  behind it. So it is just a constantly
• 30:21
  learning. And do you think it's like a
• 30:23
  constant progression or where you go, I'm going to commit to
• 30:26
  this certain training type or training methodology for 6 to 8
• 30:31
  weeks and then I'll assess to see if there's some progression
• 30:35
  or is it like, I just want to try lots of different things and
• 30:38
  I'm going to keep picking and choosing?
• 30:39
  And how does that work for you? It's kind of like that.
• 30:44
  And I'm I'm quite good at playing the long game when it
• 30:49
  comes to training and sport. And I know that I'm still very
• 30:52
  young in the whole like endurance sports world and I'm
• 30:56
  24 and I'm the youngest guy in the elite 15 and I've got lots
• 31:00
  of years ahead of me. So I don't want to utilize every
• 31:06
  training method too soon. So like I've never done a heat
• 31:10
  training session. I've never like done.
• 31:14
  I think I tried it once. I was like, now I'm not going to
• 31:16
  do this, but I've never utilized that methodology like to train
• 31:21
  because I know that the current sessions I do are progressing
• 31:24
  me. And then once I've hit my limit
• 31:27
  with those, then I'll add the next piece of the puzzle.
• 31:30
  And then that will allow me to go a little bit more.
• 31:33
  And then after that I might add altitude or sleeping altitude or
• 31:38
  this new whatever else comes out hypoxic training.
• 31:43
  And I think that's the best way to, that's the way I approach.
• 31:46
  And I think that's the best way to approach is not just like
• 31:49
  jump from thing to thing and try to add too many things at once.
• 31:53
  And it's like, find what works for you and then gradually
• 31:55
  increase that. I think it's like quite a mature
• 31:57
  way to view your training as Someone Like You say is so young
• 32:01
  and but I think also high, high rocks in itself is there's lots
• 32:06
  of different things that you do have to train for.
• 32:08
  Obviously you've got all of the different stations you've got
• 32:10
  running etcetera, etcetera. But it's different to something,
• 32:13
  let's compare it to CrossFit, where it's like hundreds of
• 32:17
  different things that you have to train for and you have to
• 32:19
  train with different levels of fatigue for different amounts of
• 32:22
  time. So I feel like with high rocks,
• 32:24
  you can be quite specific and it's much easier to look at your
• 32:27
  data from a race and go, I'm not good at burpee broad jumps as an
• 32:30
  example. That's what I need to focus on.
• 32:33
  But if we bring it back to your training, what kind of split
• 32:37
  does it look like from? Let's just use a weak snapshot,
• 32:41
  how much strength training you doing versus how much endurance
• 32:45
  or running or I think something that people will be able to
• 32:48
  relate to. Also do high works training.
• 32:49
  What does your week kind of look like?
• 32:51
  Well, yeah, this probably changes a little bit depending
• 32:53
  on where you are in the season. But like if you if you have
• 32:57
  maybe two example weeks that you could give us that for different
• 32:59
  parts or phases of a season. So in an ideal like let's say
• 33:05
  I've got a week where nothing pops up, I don't have to do
• 33:09
  anything out of norm at the moment.
• 33:12
  Training would look like Monday. I'd have a threshold threshold
• 33:20
  run in the morning because a lot of people think that threshold
• 33:24
  is sub 5K pace, which is not. Yeah, we said, we said this a
• 33:29
  couple of days ago. So again, if you're wondering
• 33:30
  what threshold is, go back to the Christian Bloom and Fire
• 33:32
  episode because we basically break down what the hell a
• 33:34
  triple threshold day is. And that is actually probably
• 33:37
  not as bad as you think it is, but carry on.
• 33:39
  So I'll do like a threshold running and then probably finish
• 33:42
  with some sort of war balls at the end of it.
• 33:44
  And then it would be either like an echo bike session or a ski
• 33:49
  session, a threshold again and then lower body strength on the
• 33:53
  Monday. Tuesday would be like 2 hours on
• 33:57
  the Stairmaster and like the zone one zone 2 intensity, 2
• 34:01
  hours on the bike, zone one zone 2 intensity.
• 34:04
  And then depending on Thursday would be an upper body strength
• 34:08
  session. Wednesday would be another
• 34:13
  threshold style run in the morning, mixed modal threshold
• 34:17
  like second session and then some sort of sled specific work
• 34:22
  as the third one. Thursday would be two hours easy
• 34:26
  on the bike like the zone one, zone 2 really really easy.
• 34:31
  And then if I didn't, if I did the upper body session on the
• 34:35
  Tuesday, that's all I do on Thursday.
• 34:37
  But if I didn't do the upper body on Tuesday, I'd do that on
• 34:40
  Thursday as well. Friday would be the more
• 34:45
  hierarchy specific style specific, not Pacific style
• 34:50
  session. And then that would be more echo
• 34:54
  bike intervals or skier against force again and then lower body
• 34:58
  strength again. And then Saturday would be more
• 35:03
  of like a sort of tempo Y going through the motions, running and
• 35:10
  then maybe echo bike ski row, not too intense, but just kind
• 35:17
  of a nice tempo. And then second session on the
• 35:23
  Saturday would be like a couple of hours easy on the Stairmaster
• 35:27
  or some sort of strength work, kind of just filling in where I
• 35:31
  feel like I need to make me do a bit more.
• 35:34
  And then Sundays, 2 hours in zone One on the elliptical or
• 35:38
  the bike. I mean, it's easy to see how you
• 35:40
  like accumulate so much volume across the week, but do you keep
• 35:44
  track of how much running you're doing as well?
• 35:47
  Do you have a cap? A limit?
• 35:49
  Running. It obviously changes across the
• 35:52
  season. It would change like across the
• 35:55
  season, but normally it's about 60 to 70 K of running.
• 35:59
  But a lot, a big percentage of that is intense running.
• 36:03
  I don't do much zone 2 running. I just find that if I use
• 36:10
  because you're not going to get better at running without
• 36:13
  running. But a lot of my lower intensity
• 36:18
  work I find if I do it on other modalities like the stairmaster,
• 36:22
  the elliptical, the bike, the ski, the row which.
• 36:25
  Was less impact right? It's less impact.
• 36:27
  And then when I do run, I feel like I can get more out of those
• 36:30
  intense sessions. And I've definitely noticed like
• 36:35
  without, without doing too much zone 2 running, I perform better
• 36:40
  in my sessions. And especially now that I've got
• 36:44
  my health back on track, like those sessions are going really,
• 36:47
  really well. And yeah.
• 36:50
  I've got 2 questions but I'm not going to ask them yet because I
• 36:53
  just want to see if there is a difference between like I
• 36:55
  suppose it because I mean higher is kind of way around for the
• 36:57
  elites, but like as a supposed offseason.
• 37:00
  I think you mentioned it in your first YouTube video actually,
• 37:03
  but you've definitely mentioned it on social about doing some
• 37:05
  strength, some more strength focus weeks.
• 37:07
  What does a more strength focus week in like an offseason look
• 37:09
  like versus what you just said there?
• 37:12
  So in offseason there'll be much more like going to say like
• 37:19
  bodybuilder style strength or power lifter style strength.
• 37:22
  It'll be lifting, it'll be like trap bar deadlifts or
• 37:27
  conventional deadlifts and like bench press pull ups, that kind
• 37:32
  of thing. And then when I get in season,
• 37:35
  strength will look a bit more like like specific to
• 37:39
  performance. So instead of doing like
• 37:44
  dumbbell chest press, I'll do press UPS, but really focusing
• 37:48
  on that explosion out of the bottom like you and the burpee,
• 37:53
  or do pull ups, but really just lower the reps, but really focus
• 37:57
  on that acceleration from the bottom to the top kind of thing.
• 38:00
  So it gets more specific to the demands of the sport in season
• 38:05
  and then out of season. It's kind of just trying to
• 38:07
  raise that like maximal force that I can produce and then
• 38:13
  trying to maintain that through the season.
• 38:14
  OK, So the the first burning question that I've got about
• 38:17
  pretty much all of your training, because it seems
• 38:19
  pretty dialed in like you said that you you've kind of you've
• 38:22
  decided what happens on a Monday, what happens on Tuesday,
• 38:24
  what happens on a Wednesday. But then when you say I'm doing
• 38:28
  a four hour bike ride, why 4 hours?
• 38:32
  Why not 3 hours? 3 1/2 hours?
• 38:36
  I've actually changed my viewpoint on the four hours.
• 38:39
  Well, I've not changed it, I've just made it better.
• 38:43
  So like I said when I was explaining the week, like I do 2
• 38:48
  hours on the stairs and two hours on the bike.
• 38:51
  Previously I would have just done 4 hours straight and that
• 38:55
  will help with mitochondrial density, Biogenesis, whatever.
• 39:00
  But beyond two hours, it's kind of a point of limiting returns
• 39:05
  and the cumulative fatigue from doing 4 hours straight relative
• 39:11
  to two separate blocks or two hours the next day, I don't feel
• 39:16
  as bad. And four hours on the bike is
• 39:19
  great for endurance, but I'm never going to be doing a higher
• 39:24
  ox in four hours. And yeah, there's I'm never
• 39:27
  going to be doing Touchwood, a higher ox for two hours.
• 39:31
  But and that's much more sports specific to something that's
• 39:37
  longer like like the Tour de France, they do 4 hours on the
• 39:42
  bike a day because in the race they're doing 4 hours on the
• 39:45
  bike, five hours on the bike every day.
• 39:49
  So yeah, I think the whole point in like accumulating that timer
• 39:56
  Zone 2 is like 4 for four hours. I've just cut in half and done
• 40:01
  it into two hour blocks because it's the cumulative fatigue is
• 40:04
  less. So one of the things that I want
• 40:06
  to clarify for people that may not realize or may not have
• 40:08
  listened to some of those previous episodes, just as like
• 40:10
  a really quick underlining, when it comes to your aerobic
• 40:13
  training and setting those bases, 45 minutes is considered
• 40:17
  like the maintenance point for your aerobic training.
• 40:19
  Kind of around that point, you said yourself, up to two hours,
• 40:22
  you start to get the mitochondrial density benefits
• 40:24
  and the adaptations from doing that prolonged form of exercise.
• 40:27
  However, if you can't do 45 minutes for whatever day, it
• 40:30
  doesn't mean it's a waste. If you did 10 minutes a day for
• 40:34
  seven days of the week, that's an extra hour and a bit of
• 40:37
  aerobic training that you might not originally be doing.
• 40:39
  And 1010 minutes a day isn't necessarily that hard, depending
• 40:42
  on who you are, of course. So that's one really interesting
• 40:46
  thing that you've mentioned there.
• 40:47
  So thank you for that because I think that's a cool insight into
• 40:49
  how your training is adapted, especially with the fact that
• 40:51
  you can then like more easily refuel and go again later on in
• 40:54
  the day, which is important, as you've said.
• 40:56
  One of the other things that I wanted to ask though is on those
• 41:00
  like massive race blocks where like you said October last year,
• 41:03
  you raced 7 times in the month. You cannot taper every single
• 41:07
  one of those races, nor would you necessarily want to.
• 41:11
  However, they still have an impact on your body.
• 41:15
  How do you build recovery into your standard weekly routine to
• 41:19
  not necessarily feel like you're falling backwards by recovering,
• 41:23
  but you're still giving your body a chance to get ready for
• 41:25
  the next race? In one of those specific race, I
• 41:31
  think the most important thing when you're racing in quick
• 41:37
  succession is what you do in the six hours before the race and
• 41:42
  what you do in the six hours after the race.
• 41:45
  Because if you're not go, if you're going into the race
• 41:48
  depleted in any way, whether that be from sleep, fueling,
• 41:51
  hydration, the knock on effect after the race is going to be
• 41:55
  more profound. And then additionally, if you
• 42:00
  finish that race and you're not taking on fluids, you're not
• 42:03
  taking on food, you're not trying to get some rest, your
• 42:08
  recovery is going to be hindered.
• 42:09
  So I think a lot of people were like, oh, when you race like how
• 42:14
  do you do like back-to-back races in one weekend?
• 42:18
  And 95% of it is how you prepare for the first one.
• 42:23
  And then that will then in turn essentially like impacts how you
• 42:29
  perform in the second one or if you're looking at it from racing
• 42:33
  on a Sunday one week to a Friday the next week.
• 42:36
  What you do immediately after that race is more important than
• 42:40
  anything like we did during the race or we did before the race.
• 42:45
  Like if you finish that race and you're not instantly focusing on
• 42:49
  what can I do to put me in the best possible position to
• 42:53
  perform in four days time, then you're going to suffer in that
• 42:57
  race, if that makes sense. Yeah, that does make sense.
• 43:01
  Have you got any more questions on his current training I.
• 43:03
  Feel like we could sit here, I would just love listening to it
• 43:06
  and and kind of try and pick it apart and understand it.
• 43:09
  But I think like for a general person who's interested in high
• 43:14
  rocks, just hearing an insight into that's a lot of volume that
• 43:17
  you're doing across the week. But what what I feel like I
• 43:22
  potentially miss or what people seeing on social media miss is
• 43:24
  that, oh, look what Charlie's doing.
• 43:26
  Maybe I'm going to try and replicate that because he's so
• 43:28
  good and I want to get good as well.
• 43:30
  You don't necessarily have the insights into how much sleep
• 43:34
  you're getting, how much you're eating, what you're doing for
• 43:36
  recovery. Maybe you see like this crazy
• 43:38
  long Stairmaster session, this crazy long bike session.
• 43:41
  But you're able to do that because everything else in your
• 43:44
  life is aligned. And as a professional athlete
• 43:46
  now you have the freedom to be able to adapt your life around
• 43:51
  your training, which is great. So what would you say to someone
• 43:54
  who's like almost in a position where they want to replicate
• 43:57
  your training? I'd say you need to build up
• 44:07
  like you need to train to train, and you need to build up to take
• 44:12
  that amount of volume. But you can't just go from 10
• 44:16
  hours a week to 25 hours a week and four weeks.
• 44:19
  You'll get injured, you'll get burnout, your hormones will go
• 44:21
  out of whack. You need to slowly progress it.
• 44:24
  And it's taken me years to get used to that sort of volume.
• 44:29
  But then in terms of a fuelling aspect to really like a mental
• 44:33
  switch that a lot of people subconsciously or consciously
• 44:37
  have is that they train to eat, but you need to kind of focus on
• 44:44
  eating to train. And it's like that's not a
• 44:49
  abnormal thing. I think a lot of people think
• 44:51
  like that. And when you realize that, like
• 44:56
  if I can eat a lot during a session and fuel that session,
• 45:00
  I'm going to recover so much quicker for the next one.
• 45:03
  Like at the moment during my intense sessions, I'm taking on
• 45:06
  about 100 grams of carbs an hour and I'll finish that session and
• 45:14
  as long as it's if it's like aerobic, like a run or an echo
• 45:17
  bike, I'll finish it and I'll feel fine.
• 45:20
  Whereas before, like even a year ago, I was probably eating 1/4
• 45:25
  of the amount of carbs per hour and I'd finish it and I'd feel
• 45:28
  depleted. And that I think that's the
• 45:30
  biggest thing that a lot of people probably don't optimize
• 45:34
  anywhere near as much as intra workout fueling and intra
• 45:38
  workout hydration. Like the amount of electrolyte
• 45:41
  packets I go through from my protein is nuts.
• 45:45
  Quick plug. Yeah, smooth.
• 45:49
  But yeah, just like I think intra workout fueling and slowly
• 45:52
  building up to that volume is the key thing.
• 45:55
  And then if there was one thing that you could like, you're
• 45:58
  eradicating all of your training apart from one thing or one
• 46:02
  session. What's that one thing or one
• 46:05
  session that you have? To do so that wait, just as a
• 46:09
  question for you on your question, is that like as a
• 46:12
  sanity or a staple part or is that like the needle?
• 46:15
  Mover, I'd say it could be either really, but let's let's
• 46:19
  just say it's that for performance, it's the needle
• 46:21
  mover but you're only allowed to do that one session.
• 46:24
  What are you doing? One of my favorite sessions I do
• 46:28
  every single week is a 1K run and a three KRK bike repeated
• 46:37
  for any given duration. It could be 5 by 12 minutes, it
• 46:41
  could be 3 by 20 minutes, it could be 2 by 30 minutes.
• 46:44
  But that's either, that will be like one of my threshold
• 46:49
  sessions or one of my or the tempo session on the Saturday.
• 46:52
  And I think that's the biggest needle mover for me.
• 46:56
  And it's also the one where I finish it.
• 46:57
  And I'm like, yeah, that felt that felt good because I can, I
• 47:01
  can run quickly and I can put out a good wattage on the echo
• 47:04
  bike. So mentally that feels the best
• 47:07
  for me because I know I'm I'm doing work and I'm doing a lot
• 47:10
  of it and watch. Lots of people start doing that
• 47:13
  session. Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 47:13
  I mean, I've been doing it for weeks now.
• 47:15
  I don't know what you're talking about.
• 47:16
  He didn't, Yeah. Yeah, and if you can make it 500
• 47:20
  meter run a bit of a quicker pace and a 1.5 K echo bike if
• 47:24
  you want to. And I've not really got much
• 47:29
  else to say. Just tag.
• 47:31
  Just tag me in your story if you then go and do that session.
• 47:34
  Yeah, tag us as well. We'll share that.
• 47:36
  So the next thing that I kind of have to ask is a bit of a touchy
• 47:40
  topic around the sport. We'll keep this brief with a lot
• 47:43
  of professionals getting to the top and looking for those
• 47:46
  percentages. You very well said yourself that
• 47:49
  like you have a bit of a road map and like you're going to
• 47:52
  continue improving on what you can improve on and then you're
• 47:54
  going to go looking for the next thing.
• 47:57
  There are going to be other people that turn to alternative
• 47:59
  methods which are frowned upon. Hierarchy is now wider
• 48:03
  compliant. Are you, are you aware that
• 48:07
  there are going to be other people that maybe are so close
• 48:10
  to getting their sub 60? And just think I've heard of
• 48:15
  this thing. Is it worth me trying it?
• 48:18
  Where do you think the sport is going with that relationship
• 48:22
  with some things that are not allowed within the sport and are
• 48:26
  there any things that you think people in the sort of social
• 48:29
  space of the sport should be aware of around those?
• 48:36
  In terms of like, if you're taking the sport competitively,
• 48:41
  like there's no like place for it, whether you're doing it
• 48:45
  knowingly, unknowingly, or whether or not you want to hide
• 48:48
  it or you don't want to hide it. And there's an individual who
• 48:53
  made a whole like YouTube thing about it called Mark Lewis, who
• 48:57
  he, he's never like he's he's, I think he's got one age group
• 49:02
  podium, but he went on to TRT, so testosterone placement
• 49:07
  therapy and he spoke to Hierarchs.
• 49:09
  Oh, I'm going on to this, like, what's the parameters for it?
• 49:12
  And they're like, you can still do it.
• 49:14
  Your time just won't count. And I think if you're a gym,
• 49:18
  like a gym goer and you have because it's rife in the UK
• 49:22
  especially, it's like a lot of people are on different things
• 49:26
  that aren't like conducive to what are guidelines.
• 49:31
  And if you're an everyday person, you want to do high
• 49:34
  rocks and you're on that substance, crack on.
• 49:37
  Just let them know, and then it can be a fair competition
• 49:42
  because you can. What's what I don't like is when
• 49:48
  people compete knowing that they're doing things they
• 49:51
  probably shouldn't, but they're still competing as though they
• 49:55
  were. Mainly that the natural right?
• 49:58
  Yeah, and it's like, I have nothing wrong with people taking
• 50:02
  that stuff. Just make sure you let any
• 50:06
  governing body, whether it's in running, high rocks, cycling,
• 50:09
  swimming, Aqua aerobics, whatever, just let that
• 50:14
  governing body know and then they can do things accordingly.
• 50:17
  One of the things that I think is great for general health
• 50:21
  potentially, but also somewhat concerning is there there's
• 50:23
  like, I don't, I don't know the the name of it and I don't want
• 50:26
  to bad mouth in particularly, but there's like manual and
• 50:28
  loads of things that I have seen come up on like social media
• 50:31
  being like, Oh, it's normal to have to get your test done, get
• 50:35
  some TRT. Like people need to be more
• 50:37
  aware of like the impact and if they actually do have
• 50:40
  aspirations and they might be 18 and going, Oh, I got this test
• 50:43
  done that I saw on social media and my test was like, I'm going
• 50:45
  to do TRT now. Well, actually the impact of
• 50:48
  that on your longevity within the sport, if you make it, is
• 50:50
  massive. And it's something that people
• 50:52
  need to be aware of a little bit more.
• 50:53
  And that's just something that I, yeah, I just thought would be
• 50:57
  worth mentioning. With the way that the sport is
• 50:58
  developed and wants to be an Olympic sport, people really
• 51:00
  need to take that into consideration if they're going
• 51:02
  to be taking it seriously. Yeah.
• 51:04
  And it's like a lot of these things are about honesty.
• 51:07
  And for instance, when we, when I signed my like elite racing
• 51:12
  license that we have to do now we have to have an elite license
• 51:16
  if we want to compare elite racers, which I think is great.
• 51:20
  When you sign that, you have to clarify, I've not done like in
• 51:23
  my, in like my time as a human, I've not taken any performance
• 51:29
  enhancing, not supplements, drugs essentially.
• 51:34
  And you have to like, tick a box and say, I've never done that.
• 51:37
  And like, because even if you do it when you're really young,
• 51:41
  you're still going to have those foundations in pace when you're
• 51:44
  older, both positively and negatively.
• 51:47
  Like, you might gain a load of muscle, but then you're always
• 51:50
  going to have naturally low testosterone if you're not
• 51:52
  taking XYZ. So yeah, I think that it's all
• 51:58
  about honesty. Really sweet what we're going to
• 52:00
  roll into because that was A and someone asked if we could bring
• 52:04
  that up, but we've got actual questions from people that I
• 52:06
  want to roll into. And so I think we covered a
• 52:09
  question in the last episode from Miles, which is about your
• 52:12
  favorite ratio. We said unless you want to re
• 52:14
  repeat it your favorite current ratio.
• 52:17
  Oh yeah, street fight. Street Fight 2 Nike And the next
• 52:22
  question is zone five thoughts. We've seen your Zone 4 Zone Four
• 52:29
  thoughts on your Instagram. Do you ever have many Zone Five
• 52:32
  thoughts? Help me, the only time I ever
• 52:40
  really am in zone 5 heart rate wise is in a race and all I'm
• 52:47
  thinking of is the race. I don't really think of anything
• 52:51
  outside the race. At what point in the race?
• 52:54
  Back end. Oh, burpees.
• 52:57
  And I look, I look at the burpees and I look, I like, I
• 52:59
  think of the burpees and all of a sudden my heart rates at 200
• 53:02
  beats a minute even if I'm even if I'm on the ski.
• 53:05
  Ties into the next question. Your burpees have got a lot
• 53:09
  quicker. You've actually that's very
• 53:11
  visual in like your technique. What's the is there one thing
• 53:15
  that you could give? I'm so sorry I didn't put their
• 53:18
  name down. If there one thing you could
• 53:20
  give people that is like developed your burpees the most.
• 53:27
  Simple works I think, and I've just been doing more of them.
• 53:30
  I. Was really hoping you weren't
• 53:31
  going to say that. But I have also been doing more
• 53:35
  explosive press ups to help with the push.
• 53:37
  I've been doing more box jumps to help with the actual jump
• 53:40
  because what I've realized is if I can jump 10 centimeters
• 53:45
  further per jump, I'm going to be saving like 4 meters on the
• 53:49
  burpees. And also you might get some
• 53:55
  stick for this. Before, when I was doing
• 53:58
  burpees, I would go down and I would put the pal of my hand
• 54:01
  right on my toes. And other people are putting it
• 54:04
  the 30 centimeters in front. And now I've done that and if
• 54:09
  you think about it, I'm still within the rules because it's 30
• 54:12
  centimeters. But if I'm putting my hands,
• 54:14
  let's be safe, 20 centimeters in front over 5 burpees, that's the
• 54:19
  whole meter. And then when you look at that
• 54:23
  in the whole length of burpee broad jumps, if it's 80 meters,
• 54:26
  well, it's always 80 meters. That's like four or five burpees
• 54:32
  just from going to the edge of the rules.
• 54:34
  And I'm never going to. I've seen that whole thing
• 54:37
  happen in Hamburg with the staggered feet situation, that
• 54:42
  everyone really staggered feet and no one really knew why.
• 54:44
  But I'm never going to put my hands too far out front where
• 54:46
  I'm going to get a penalty flat. But it's really riding that line
• 54:49
  and utilizing everything you can I.
• 54:51
  Don't want to put words in your mouth here, but is it fair to
• 54:54
  say that there's a yellow card on every station for a reason?
• 54:59
  What do you mean? Careful carefully suggesting
• 55:02
  that, like if you haven't got a yellow card, what you're doing
• 55:05
  is fine to keep doing it. Do as much as you can until
• 55:07
  you're like given a warning. Well, yeah, you've, you've
• 55:11
  always got to ride that line, like at the end, at the end of
• 55:14
  the day, like you've got to eke out every potential benefit you
• 55:18
  can. And like, if you break the
• 55:22
  rules, you'll get penalized. If you don't break the rules,
• 55:24
  you won't get penalized. So like, go as close as you can
• 55:29
  to the limit without crossing the limit.
• 55:30
  I expect 8 yellow cards from you in Stockholm each station.
• 55:34
  I don't know how you'll get them on some of the stations.
• 55:36
  But I'm one of the very few people that have got a penalty
• 55:38
  on the ski Ugg so. What was that for?
• 55:41
  I didn't have both feet on the plate.
• 55:43
  I had one foot before. He started pulling.
• 55:45
  Yeah, I had one foot. Both feet were over the plate,
• 55:48
  but one was in the air and one was on the thing.
• 55:51
  Who judges Hop them. They will hop on it I've.
• 55:53
  I've seen short people in hierarchs and they have to like
• 55:55
  stand on the fan. No, Technically speaking, is
• 55:59
  that penalty? Or when you jump and pull at the
• 56:01
  same time because your feet aren't on the plate.
• 56:03
  Yeah. Is that penalty?
• 56:04
  That's a loophole. Penalize them.
• 56:08
  I I'll let them off. OK, they're very diplomatic
• 56:13
  choice. Like because I know you get
• 56:15
  boxes for, I know you get a box for the wall balls, but a box to
• 56:18
  step up to grab the ski handles probably wouldn't wouldn't work.
• 56:22
  So that's the only way they can do it.
• 56:23
  I've got 2 very quick burning questions before we get into the
• 56:27
  game. I know we're tight on time with
• 56:28
  this. The first one is what is the
• 56:32
  best supermarket for meal deals? Right.
• 56:36
  OK, Quick fire. If we're going premium meal
• 56:41
  deals at Sainsbury's, if we're going regular everyday
• 56:43
  standardized meal deals, it's Tesco's.
• 56:46
  Can I ask a quick off the back of that, I shouldn't be doing
• 56:48
  this with the time, but what are your thoughts on the levels of
• 56:51
  meal deal? Are you a fan of Levels or do
• 56:54
  you think they should be eradicated everything?
• 56:55
  I'm a fan of levels because it's like a treat yourself like if
• 56:58
  it's a Friday, going to go going to go the 7 LB Sainsbury's.
• 57:02
  Meal, but only Fridays. Although a lot of the £5.50 I
• 57:07
  think it is now, Sainsbury's meal audio options are actually
• 57:10
  better than the 7 LB ones. The 7 LB ones just look bougie.
• 57:14
  I think Waitrose is so underrated.
• 57:16
  For me, Waitrose is very underrated.
• 57:18
  Underrated especially that I knew this guy would know.
• 57:22
  I knew this guy would know. I don't know what happened to
• 57:24
  this conversation, but I feel like I'm no longer qualified to
• 57:27
  be in the room with these two people.
• 57:29
  Waitrose. It's the Waitrose do a meal
• 57:31
  deal. It's not even a price, it's a
• 57:32
  Waitrose 5. Pounds and you can get like you
• 57:35
  can get like a grains salad bowl of porridge.
• 57:39
  Porridge. Yeah, and like any drink you.
• 57:41
  Want. I I didn't sorry Waitrose, I did
• 57:44
  not respect. You done that one.
• 57:45
  Yeah, the the sushi as well in is snacks like sushi.
• 57:49
  I genuinely thought Waitrose like had everything but there
• 57:52
  was no deal. It was like you just pay for
• 57:55
  each individual item, it comes to 13 lbs and you should be
• 57:57
  happy. The Waitrose do do a thing that
• 57:59
  grinds all of our gears and it's been said multiple times on this
• 58:02
  podcast where a where a non meal deal item is put on the shelf
• 58:07
  next to or in between meal deal items.
• 58:10
  Waitrose do do that. We don't have time.
• 58:13
  We don't, no. OK, so the the final kind of
• 58:16
  meal deal question, which I think everyone in the UK wants
• 58:20
  to only answer you, what is your go to meal deal of choice from
• 58:24
  whichever supermarket? But what are the three items
• 58:27
  you're getting? You can only eat this for the
• 58:29
  rest of your life. The OH.
• 58:31
  Why you say egg pot? I'm going to be so upset.
• 58:34
  So I would go to Sainsbury's and I would get the Coco di Mama
• 58:43
  spicy Milanese. The baguette.
• 58:46
  Baguette. Really.
• 58:48
  And then alongside that my. It's too hard.
• 58:54
  It's too hard for. Him, he's been through way too
• 58:57
  many cent UPS of meal deal. Because I'm an athlete, my drink
• 59:02
  would be the You Fit protein shake.
• 59:06
  OK, 24 spicy baguette. Yeah, it cools it down, you
• 59:09
  know, And then the snack, I would have to go with probably a
• 59:20
  squares bar. I would go with a protein bar,
• 59:23
  but there's no my protein. Protein Mars my protein.
• 59:25
  We need to change that because the fulfilled ones are great,
• 59:29
  but they just don't pay the bills.
• 59:32
  Yeah. And that's fair enough.
• 59:35
  It's so valid. I won't bring in my meal deal
• 59:39
  choice. I definitely think there's
• 59:41
  better things out there, but I have to appreciate that the meal
• 59:43
  deal has got you to where you are and my meal deals have got
• 59:45
  me to where I am, which is and you Can't Sing this podcast you.
• 59:48
  Can't argue with that. The the protein shake I wouldn't
• 59:51
  have I'd I'd just get Pepsi Max or a pour red door Pepsi.
• 59:57
  Not like Pepsi Max Maximum Paste no no.
• 1:00:00
  No, no, no. There was a discovery this week.
• 1:00:03
  At the moment in Sainsbury's you can get a Coke 0 fan size, which
• 1:00:08
  is like a pint of Coke Zero in a can.
• 1:00:10
  Unreal. Get it while it lasts.
• 1:00:12
  It was incredible. I've never necked so much Coke 0
• 1:00:15
  in one gulp so comfortably, if that makes sense.
• 1:00:17
  Yeah, drank it like water. Anyway, moving on very swiftly
• 1:00:21
  from that. We've got the game, we do.
• 1:00:23
  This time it's me versus Charlie.
• 1:00:27
  Yeah, OK, let's go. The only difference with this
• 1:00:30
  one is I'm going to ask you both different questions, but the
• 1:00:34
  questions are going to be how well you know each other's high
• 1:00:38
  rocks performances. Oh God.
• 1:00:40
  Plus some celebrity high rocks performances.
• 1:00:43
  All right, so I was. Going to say how many races was
• 1:00:46
  it? Some like 70.
• 1:00:48
  Two, I think some so I've got. 72 races to choose from.
• 1:00:50
  You've got like, I don't know, 14?
• 1:00:53
  I think I've been quite I've, I think I've been quite fair.
• 1:00:55
  OK, OK, let's go. Charlie, you're going to start.
• 1:00:58
  Angus's fastest pro solo was performed where a Cardiff, B
• 1:01:04
  Stockholm or C Barcelona. Barcelona do.
• 1:01:10
  You want to tell him it was Cardiff mate, I died, dropped
• 1:01:13
  the floor afterwards and I didn't.
• 1:01:14
  Know you said it yourself as Spanish sleds always slow.
• 1:01:16
  Yeah, but I thought it was Barcelona.
• 1:01:19
  Go on. Shame.
• 1:01:20
  I reckon I know Charlie all right.
• 1:01:22
  What time did Charlie run in Melbourne's Elite 15 race?
• 1:01:27
  Was it a 5539? Was it B5619 or C5529?
• 1:01:40
  Dan. He's he's poker facing over
• 1:01:42
  there. I.
• 1:01:42
  Think honestly one of them rung a bell.
• 1:01:45
  I would obviously knowing you usually go see because that's
• 1:01:49
  your favorite thing to do. I just, I'm going to go with
• 1:01:52
  Garth 5539. It was in fact, C5529. 29 down.
• 1:02:00
  The 30 just really hit me, I don't know why.
• 1:02:02
  All right, Charlie, if you didn't know, KSI of the side men
• 1:02:08
  has done a high rox, right? He completed a men's double S
• 1:02:12
  race, but what was his time? Was it A one hour 13?
• 1:02:18
  B one hour 10 or C one hour and 4 minutes.
• 1:02:24
  Now he did that in Berlin with cow freezer.
• 1:02:27
  I knew that I was going to try and steal this one.
• 1:02:30
  Let's see. If I can get it, I reckon one
• 1:02:32
  out of 10. Can I can I put my guess in as
• 1:02:35
  well please? I think I think it was one out
• 1:02:37
  of 13. I know, I know, it wasn't one
• 1:02:40
  hour and 4 minutes it. Definitely wasn't one hour and 4
• 1:02:42
  minutes. Charlie takes that one hour.
• 1:02:44
  Really. Was it?
• 1:02:45
  That's a. Good knowledge.
• 1:02:46
  I saw the the guy at the ears with that.
• 1:02:50
  OK Angus, your celebrity theme Jensen.
• 1:02:54
  I knew it was going to be Jensen.
• 1:02:55
  Button recently completed his first solo High Rocks in
• 1:02:59
  Phoenix. What time did he do?
• 1:03:02
  Was it A115B105 or C108? No offence of Jensen, don't
• 1:03:11
  think he's got 105 in the locker.
• 1:03:14
  Theoretically could be 140. Was it one 14115?
• 1:03:17
  Was it pro or open? This was his.
• 1:03:20
  Open open, open, open. Thank you very much.
• 1:03:23
  Doesn't actually change my answer too much.
• 1:03:24
  I just kind of, I've been set on it.
• 1:03:27
  I'm going to say he got a 108 off the back of and I'm probably
• 1:03:32
  wrong, but off the back of the fact that it's not his first
• 1:03:34
  hierarchy, he did the double S before something kind of like
• 1:03:37
  knows about it. It was a very accurate guess
• 1:03:41
  108. It was the Athenian.
• 1:03:43
  All right, back to Charlie, because you're now a cross
• 1:03:46
  fitter. Tia Claire Toomey, most
• 1:03:49
  successful CrossFit athlete of all time.
• 1:03:52
  She ran a Pro Double S with Joanna Wheatrix and her PB time
• 1:03:57
  is a 5424, B 5324 or C 5524. 5424.
• 1:04:11
  The guy is good. The guy is.
• 1:04:12
  Good you know am I was clueless. I have no idea you.
• 1:04:16
  You knew that? Well, that was an educated
• 1:04:18
  guess. Yeah, I knew it was 54
• 1:04:20
  somewhere. Wow, I should have made him
• 1:04:22
  harder. Yeah, you should have gone by
• 1:04:23
  like 3 seconds split. OK Angus, your Athletic Co host
• 1:04:28
  Charles ran a mixed double s PB in Birmingham last year.
• 1:04:31
  He did. But what was his time?
• 1:04:34
  Was it A5958-B5859 or C5759? It was 5859, remember it clear
• 1:04:44
  as day. Easy one, Well done.
• 1:04:46
  OK, Charlie, back to you. Lance Armstrong Racing Men's
• 1:04:51
  Open in New York set a time of A one hour 12, B one hour 2 or C
• 1:04:59
  one hour 6. One hour 12.
• 1:05:04
  I think the times you count though because you did drugs.
• 1:05:10
  Anyway, moving on. OK, we're staying with
• 1:05:14
  celebrities. Gary Cahill, footballer has a
• 1:05:17
  high Rox PB. No.
• 1:05:19
  He don't have one hour 4 in men's double s, but what was his
• 1:05:23
  average run pace? Was it A-416-B406 or C436?
• 1:05:32
  In is that helping Angus here? I think already.
• 1:05:35
  Is that inclusive of the rock zone?
• 1:05:37
  Yes. OK.
• 1:05:41
  Wait, so that includes the Rock Zone.
• 1:05:42
  So this is straight off Roxford. Yeah.
• 1:05:44
  OK. So I think then just based on
• 1:05:50
  the fact that it's a 104 and like to get that time,
• 1:05:52
  realistically if you're doing a solo, you'd be running more like
• 1:05:55
  the lower numbers that you said. I think it's what was it, four
• 1:05:57
  36436? Well played, C436.
• 1:06:02
  All right, here we go, Charlie. In Birmingham 2025, you raced a
• 1:06:07
  Pro double s with Jake Williamson.
• 1:06:10
  You set the third fastest double S time ever in your heat was
• 1:06:14
  none other than me. You beat our time by how many
• 1:06:19
  minutes? Oh, that's a great question.
• 1:06:21
  Was it a 8 minutes, B 10 minutes, or C 13 minutes?
• 1:06:29
  10 minutes. My steal.
• 1:06:32
  Yeah, that was the longer one. You've been nice to me.
• 1:06:36
  I wasn't sure if you took just over an hour or just.
• 1:06:39
  Just over an hour, yeah, yeah, I just remember here, I think we
• 1:06:42
  were in the farmers carry and the the guy on the mic.
• 1:06:45
  I don't know if it was phase out being like 9899 on the wobble so
• 1:06:51
  there's a hue. I was like how?
• 1:06:53
  Said it. What ended up actually working
• 1:06:54
  beautifully was I was filming both Charlie and Charles in
• 1:06:57
  their separate races, but being in the same wave like that is a
• 1:06:59
  challenge in itself. I was doing as much running as
• 1:07:01
  these lot pretty much, but it ended up spacing out really
• 1:07:05
  nicely apart from I pretty much missed you guys on the road
• 1:07:08
  because you guys were doing burpees for so long.
• 1:07:14
  But yeah, it actually worked out quite well because you guys were
• 1:07:16
  that much quicker. But it really put into
• 1:07:18
  perspective like Charles is not unfit, neither is Hugh.
• 1:07:22
  And like you guys were 13 minutes.
• 1:07:23
  There was another good bit where they set out, I think it was
• 1:07:26
  men's pro heat, and you were running behind us and you saw
• 1:07:30
  them all, like, flocking. I just heard you screaming and I
• 1:07:33
  just grabbed you right behind you and you basically, like,
• 1:07:36
  parted the Red Sea and we were just like right in behind you
• 1:07:39
  for about 20 meters and then you were gone again.
• 1:07:41
  That was good. Anyway, sorry.
• 1:07:42
  Yeah. Thank you for keeping me on
• 1:07:43
  track. That third fastest double s time
• 1:07:47
  that I just mentioned, what was Charlie and Jake's finishing
• 1:07:51
  time? Was it a 5002?
• 1:07:55
  B, 4917. Or C it was 4917.
• 1:07:59
  Easy. Yeah.
• 1:08:01
  And that was the last question I.
• 1:08:04
  Think. It might have been a draw.
• 1:08:07
  Oh, wow. I'll take that into the next
• 1:08:09
  round. We have got something else that
• 1:08:12
  we're going to do, which is essentially, if you've watched
• 1:08:14
  Top Gear Star in a reasonably priced car, we're going to put
• 1:08:16
  Charlie through the test. But first of all, Charles and I
• 1:08:18
  are going to give it a go. We might show that on a
• 1:08:20
  different occasion because that wraps up this episode.
• 1:08:23
  Is there anything else from either of you that you want to
• 1:08:25
  throw in at the end? Have a nice day.
• 1:08:31
  Incredibly motivational. You can find Charlie at Charlie
• 1:08:34
  dot bottle on Instagram socials. You can also go and check out
• 1:08:36
  his YouTube channel. It will be below.
• 1:08:39
  Make sure you hit subscribe on both channels.
• 1:08:40
  We appreciate you for tuning in and yeah, you can find us at
• 1:08:43
  mindsets under score podcast for anything.
• 1:08:46
  Get involved with the Grind My Gears, send some topic
• 1:08:47
  suggestions in and let us know who you want to see on next
• 1:08:50
  time. Anything from you, Charles?
• 1:08:52
  Thank you very much for coming down.
• 1:08:53
  Thank you for having me. Thank you very much, Charlie,
• 1:08:55
  and we look forward to seeing you all in the next episode.