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Retail Media Meets CTV: The New Power Pair · IAB Europe podcasts

0:05
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Retail Media Roundtable, the podcast of Ivy Europe that dives into the dynamic world of retail media advertising.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm Retail, the Industry Development and Insights Director at Ivy Europe.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: And in each episode, I invite two expert guests from the coffee industry to share their insights, exchange ideas, and explore the latest trends and challenges shaping the retail media landscape in Europe.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: So whether you have a practical tip or an expert perspective or just a deeper understanding of this rapidly evolving space, the Retail Media Roundtable is your go-to for engaging and thought-provoking conversations.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone and welcome to our latest Retail Media Roundtable podcast.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: My name is Marie Claire.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: I am the Senior Director of Industry Development and Marketing here at IB Europe.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's my pleasure to welcome to the podcast today Jason Westcott and Rahul Sharma.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: I'd like to welcome both of you and ask you to introduce yourself and also tell us what has been your peak of the week, either personally or professionally.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Jason, maybe if we start with you, please.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: Hi, MC.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Great to be here on the podcast today.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: So I'm the global head of media of commerce solutions at WPP Media, and I'm also chair of IEB, Europe's Retail and Commerce Media Committee.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna work very closely with you guys, which is um great.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: My peak of the week was last night watching France get absolutely demolished by Spain in the World Cup because um France beat Morocco in the quarterfinal.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: And I've been in Morocco the last two weeks with um my wife and family on holiday, and France ended our World Cup run, which we were absolutely devastated about.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: So it was, yeah, we took revenge through um Spain last night, and obviously very much looking forward to England tonight.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Jason.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh Rahun?
2:04
SPEAKER_03: Hey, MC.
2:05
SPEAKER_03: I'm Rahul Sharma.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm the head of product for Maluku's streaming and CTV business.
2:09
SPEAKER_03: We are the performance CTV DSP.
2:12
SPEAKER_03: My peak of the week, well, I'm just coming back from an Alaska cruise with my family.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh so, but this week, uh I think I'm I'm really happy I'm back home right now.
2:24
SPEAKER_03: It's uh I think much more space than on a cruise ship.
2:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh it's difficult to beat Jason's uh high of seeing arrival go down.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: So this is a lot more a common human experience right now.
2:36
unknown: Yeah.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we are in peak football season, aren't we?
2:40
SPEAKER_00: It's all uh it's all hotting up.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Um I'd love to be on a cruise role.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: I've never been on a cruise, so we'll have to catch up on that separately.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: I know it's it's interesting that your peak of the week is getting off of the cruise, not being on the cruise, but um maybe we'll dig into that another time.
2:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I like Stable Ground more now.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: Fair enough.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: That's fair, yeah.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: So so our kind of topic for today is retail media and connected TV.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: So we're going to really dig into um what we would, what we're calling IEB Europe, the new power pair, retail media meets DTV.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: And um this is personally really exciting for me to do this podcast because I actually lead both of those um content development areas at IBERP, and I'm slowly but surely seeing the two merge in various different ways.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's really exciting to be able to speak to both of you about that today.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: So let's just start with a bit of a bit of scene setting.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So retail media and connected TV, both major growth areas in digital advertising.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: If you look at our latest ADX benchmark report, both of those are standout growth areas.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, retail media over 22%, for example.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Why now are we seeing these two worlds come together?
3:57
SPEAKER_00: What is it about them that are is it the growth, is it something else?
4:00
SPEAKER_00: What's making those two environments come together and also so powerful for brands and advertisers?
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Rahul, maybe if we if we start with you.
4:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think the overall uh what used to be called addressability on TV, right, uh has really uh shifted a bunch of cares up into really what is performance advertising.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: Again, I think retail media and CTV or TV have exist, have always had uh some level of overlap from the point of view of the market we play in, where we are seeing a lot of growth and success across the market is the lower funnel conversions, right?
4:43
SPEAKER_03: Which is being able to what is called offsite extension on retail uh media networks, bring it to CTV, show the product or the ad to the right user at the right time for the right price, and being able to get the user to go back to the retail media network and convert and be able to optimize for it.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: And I think that approach has really taken off in the last couple of years with the advancement of machine learning, what used to be called machine learning, now called AI, right?
5:17
SPEAKER_03: And I think that has just allowed us to be able to operate with a lot more information.
5:22
SPEAKER_03: At least that's that's my view.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Jason, how does that resonate with you?
5:26
SPEAKER_00: And and how are you, what feedback are you getting from your clients about the the opportunity of these two two um big growth areas?
5:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, from a from an industry perspective, it's just a natural collision of the two most important trends in um in our industry.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, our this year, next year, um, June 2026 um forecast, global commerce advertising is projected to reach 199.6 billion in 2026, and and retail media accounts for 97% of that number, so 194.7 billion.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: I know IEB has their own numbers, I know they're calculated um slightly um differently, but we all know the growth rates on um CTB, and we all know the growth rates on um retail media, and they're more often than not, you know, the the the fastest, um the fastest growing.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: I think at the same time, CTV device penetration in Europe has reached like a saturation point.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: I think 88% in the UK and up to 95% in Spain.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, but the consumer wallets are also saturated as well.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: So I feel like there's like a subscription ceiling, if you like, for paid services within um CTV.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: I think you know, on average it might be three to four paid subscriptions per um household.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: And this means that um people are rapidly shifting to um fast channels, free ad-supported streaming, Avod, whatever you want to call it, um, which has a 27% adoption rate in um in Europe.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: So this is this is unlocking um massive new premium video inventory.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: Um and advertisers, they want those new eyeballs.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: And like Rahul was saying, they want it along with the deterministic precision of retail media.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that that is very appealing to our clients, particularly the latter.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things we love to do at the IAB Europe is um explain things in simple terms, define things.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: If you were talking to someone kind of less familiar with the in the kind of convergence of retail media and connected TV, if you were to explain the opportunity of that intersection, maybe in one sentence, one phrase, what how would you how would you describe that?
7:48
SPEAKER_00: How would you define that opportunity, Rahul?
7:52
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a it's always a tough one to uh simplify it to one sentence.
7:57
SPEAKER_03: But let me sort of try it this way, right?
7:59
SPEAKER_03: I think what you can do now with connected TV is be able to put leverage the deterministic data that a retail media user has in a responsible way to show the ad to your prospective customers in the household while they are paying attention.
8:19
SPEAKER_03: What's been the strength of TV forever?
8:22
SPEAKER_03: It's been the undivided attention into that of 15, 30 second non-skip ad breaks, right?
8:28
SPEAKER_03: What we are seeing in our experience, and like US is a few years ahead in terms of adoption of fast and ad-supported uh uh uh um content, and hence we have a much larger uh sort of footprint here.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: But what we have seen in our experience is if the advertiser has a story to tell, if that's what really is driving your conversions, then CTV is a great channel for you, right?
8:55
SPEAKER_03: And what now with machine learning and AI and this convergence of in a responsible clean room manner, what you can do is have very high efficiency.
9:06
SPEAKER_03: So instead of just spraying and praying on your ad shown to everybody who's watching a certain piece of content, you can now say, okay, this is the cohort of users that I want to reach out to, right?
9:18
SPEAKER_03: It could be uh users who have bought in the past, have not bought again, users who you're trying to cross-sell to another category, right?
9:27
SPEAKER_03: And all of that is now possible because of all the basically because of the C part of the TV, the connected part of TV, right?
9:36
SPEAKER_03: And where Europe is now catching up is on ad-supported inventory coming on TV, right?
9:41
SPEAKER_03: Like your Europe is being sort of as as Jason was pointing, like that's still early days for us, like US is farther.
9:47
SPEAKER_03: Does that, I know it's not one sentence, but I hope it uh addresses the.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: No, no, that's that's really helpful.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um I I actually liked your point about it this kind of really enables the C part of the CTV, really makes it connected, is a real, really good way of distilling it down.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: Jason, would you take a stab at maybe one or one or two sentences?
10:09
SPEAKER_02: I got I've got one sentence.
10:10
SPEAKER_02: We're we're turning the biggest screen in the house into a performance channel.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: There we go.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: We should use that as the title of the podcast, actually.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: No, because I I use this one a lot.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: So I thought when this question came up, I was like, oh, easy.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: It's got that.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: I knew you would have.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: So just just thinking about the kind of the value, then if you're a brand, what what kind of brands will really benefit from this?
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Rahul, you talked about being able to actually properly prospect in CTV environments, find customers who have bought your products before or put or those who have looked at your products, those who have not bought your products, you know, you can really get quite granular in terms of your targeting and more focused and more efficient.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: What types of what type of brands are going to benefit from that type of possibility?
11:01
SPEAKER_03: I would so first of all, I think all brands would benefit from TV exposure, right?
11:07
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm sure you guys have heard this thing that when the TV's on, sales are on, right?
11:12
SPEAKER_03: Which is like largely from uh FMCG, CPG sector, right?
11:17
SPEAKER_03: Of linear TV.
11:18
SPEAKER_03: So again, the attention that the TV drives is valuable to everyone.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: Who really benefits from a performance CTV depends on how much concentration you need to drive, right?
11:32
SPEAKER_03: So a lot of our uh early foray into this, where we are seeing success, is with high concentration products, right?
11:39
SPEAKER_03: Where that 15-second story really matters, right?
11:42
SPEAKER_03: Where being able to get that and add in front of the right user really matters, and you can sort of then the CPMs that TVs charge are justifiable, right?
11:52
SPEAKER_03: If you're an impulse click-to-buy thing, then maybe you don't need a 15-second storytelling.
11:59
SPEAKER_03: But in general, anybody who has a high concentration purchase, I think this is a great format uh for you.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Jason, are you are you seeing that?
12:10
SPEAKER_00: What types of brands are you seeing engaging with this opportunity?
12:14
SPEAKER_02: No, I would, I would completely, I would completely agree.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: I think also it's just about that consistent brand reinforcement.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, I I love that when the TV is on, sales is on.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love that, and it's absolutely um correct.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: It's just, you know, with with linear, we're just never really able to connect the dots and kind of measure in the way that we can now when everything is um connected.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: I think my I think um I think another build and something we talk about a lot with in commerce and retail media is is like you know, non non-endemic brands.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: So when we say non-endemic brands, we're talking about brands who don't actually sell with the retailer that they might be buying media or um or um audience data from to activate advertising.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: But um it's the ultimate proxy for life stage, what you buy.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: So if a consumer is suddenly browsing, you know, baby formula and and nappies, diapers, whatever you want to call them, prams, all of that kind of stuff.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: I know an automotive brand, you know, that um that um are our clients that would be really interested in advertising, you know, a family SUV to them or a bigger car or something, you know, that that's more family um friendly.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: So you can start to make all of these kind of links that build the relevance in the advertising, you know, in terms of linking product to live stage.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: And you know, life stage triggers these big purchases, these big considered purchases that Raul was talking about.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: So um I see so many, so many nice angles there.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Go on, Roll.
13:48
SPEAKER_03: Please configure though, I just have fun with people.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: It was just because it's a really nice way of bringing it to life, actually, Jason.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: The automotive brand who uh would love to advertise their SUV to those those families looking at Prams and what and other baby and child related items.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that's that's a great example.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I was sort of a plus one to it, right?
14:09
SPEAKER_03: Actually, if you sort of again see it in the US market, I think there are two trends, one more, which is more advanced than the second one.
14:17
SPEAKER_03: So there are two kinds of uh convergence happening right now.
14:20
SPEAKER_03: One is a data convergence, right?
14:22
SPEAKER_03: Where you have a lot of retail media networks that are essentially enabling their audiences to be targeted on CTV, right?
14:28
SPEAKER_03: And you can sort of license their audiences in the use case that Jason talked about, right?
14:34
SPEAKER_03: Like again, back in the day, I used to run uh product for Google Midfunnel on display, right?
14:39
SPEAKER_03: And all these live stages and like intent, user intent were the audience types that you would have on display inventory, which is now made available with a bunch of uh retail uh uh media companies here, or like retail companies have their audiences based on what they are buying, what stages, and we make it CTV addressable.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: That is a data integration play purely.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: I think the second thing that is now starting to happen, but still in much earlier stage, is a closed loop for endemic advertisers coming back to the to the site.
15:11
SPEAKER_03: So it is an off-site extension for those advertisers.
15:15
SPEAKER_03: So you can imagine a use case where you are a food delivery company, right?
15:20
SPEAKER_03: And you could say to your local residents that, hey, you can with this one click now extend your campaigns from inside our app onto the TV in your local area, right?
15:33
SPEAKER_03: And the conversion of that ad is of food order on the app, right?
15:41
SPEAKER_03: And that is now possible.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: That is to me the final, like not the final, but the next stage of convergence, right?
15:51
SPEAKER_03: Where you can do that kind of optimization where like it's a really closed loop.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: And there's a measurement angle which is clearly now possible, like there's no longer panel based and stuff.
16:00
SPEAKER_03: The what goes beyond measurement is optimization.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: You can optimize for that conversion as well.
16:07
SPEAKER_03: But completely agree with what Jason was saying.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: I you're both full of examples today, which gets me really excited.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: I love it when people come with actual use cases and examples to bring this stuff to life.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Um and you've kind of we've kind of started on my next question, but but I'm gonna go into it anyway.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, we've talked about the value for the brands, the buy side.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: What about the retailers and the retail media networks?
16:30
SPEAKER_00: What's the value for them in you know you giving their data or you know, partnering with CTV broadcasters and platforms to activate their data in those platforms?
16:43
SPEAKER_00: Where does the value sit for them?
16:46
SPEAKER_00: Rahul, maybe if if you could start us on that one.
16:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I think for us, we operate in the second use case that we're talking about, right?
16:55
SPEAKER_03: It's it's less for us audience licensing.
16:58
SPEAKER_03: So there are like basically two parts, right?
16:59
SPEAKER_03: Again, if you sort of if you are into this audience licensing business, it is an additional revenue stream.
17:05
SPEAKER_03: So you are utilizing, uh leveraging the information that you have to be able to build an extra existing or additional and add revenue business.
17:16
SPEAKER_03: For us, the key reason that we are focused on the second part of it is because that is a direct 10, 20% addition to your retail media business, right?
17:27
SPEAKER_03: And it has the same uh flywheel effect that your retail media business has.
17:32
SPEAKER_03: So one of the things that uh um we've like I I have heard anecdotally is a lot of the times there are these unspent budgets that advertisers have on the retail media side, right?
17:46
SPEAKER_03: And we the CTV, and that's why they all explore off-site extension, right?
17:52
SPEAKER_03: Being able to now uh connect CTV seamlessly to a TV ad, that is a pure extension of your retail media network.
18:02
SPEAKER_03: So you have more budgets flowing through, you have more exposure, more transactions happening on the website or the app of the uh retailer, right?
18:12
SPEAKER_03: And that's like a complete flywheel, flywheel from my perspective, but eager to hear Jason's point of view.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's an extension of your, I guess it's an extension of your inventory that you can offer to your advertisers, right?
18:23
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, and also on the back of that, you can also drive more transactions to your own retail site or retail environment.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Jason, what would you how do you see the value for retailers?
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Is it similar?
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you see anything additional?
18:39
SPEAKER_02: Tough for me to comment, really, because because I'm so based in the in the um in the buy side.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it's really about new revenue streams and scale.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, retail media is still very much driven by on-site inventory and sponsored ads, inventory, and obviously that's finite.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's only so many shoppers on a page on a on a site at any given time and and so much space, you know, on a page.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: And and like um Raoul was talking about with the off-site extension, you know, we're we're just bringing extra revenue streams into play.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: Just some more stats.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: Like our report also shows that streaming TV ad revenue will grow 17.2% um globally this year to$53.8 billion.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, tapping into that premium video growth via off-site activation, you know, that that is an entirely net new value for um for retailers.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: And how just thinking about the buy side again, Jason, and we've we've talked about, you know, you talked about the, you know, it's a it's making the biggest screen in the house performance driven.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: How do you actually move brands though from thinking about this as a performance play to actually thinking full funnel with, you know, you've got your potentially retail media network buy, and then you've got your CTV activation on top of that, potentially in one strategy.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you get the brands to think about that as a full funnel approach rather than just performance only?
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Is that is that happening?
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Is it possible?
20:13
SPEAKER_00: How do we get there?
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you you hit the nail on the head when you start talking about full funnel approach.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: And whilst I kind of don't like the term full funnel, I normally use um demand generation.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: That's why I used it because I know you didn't.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and harvesting demand are kind of famous for saying um for saying that, but it's measurability again, and it's the combination of ads.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: So when um it allows brands to measure the format but also format combination effectiveness, and that's really important.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: So when a brand marketer can look at a CTV campaign and see that it triggered an action and see that, right, on its own it triggered an action to this extent, but when combined with these two other formats, say, you know, sponsored display and a sponsored um video ad, you know, both on site along with the CTV, and you know, the the level of conversion for for that combination of formats was X amount higher than just a single exposure to one of the formats.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: It kind of just shows you the power of that media swell in um combination.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: So you really then get that justification for investing in um you know brand equity as well as just fighting for the last click on a search page.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a um really insightful thank you.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: Um I want to move a little bit to the use of data targeting and actually the customer experience as well.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: So um we've talked, we well Rahul, you talked very much about, you know, it's about activating your retailer data in a CTV environment.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: How do you how do we make sure that's done responsibly?
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, particularly in places like Europe where you know we have very clear uh, you know, regulations around the use of use of data uh responsibly.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: How do you how can that be done responsibly and effectively?
22:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's uh uh that's a really good question and like one of the most important questions of any ad tech, especially when you start a good performance and personalization, right?
22:23
SPEAKER_03: Like doing it responsibly, I think is the most important element over there.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: I I think that's not central to CTV detail convergence, right?
22:32
SPEAKER_03: So it is basically core of any performance, any first-party data being used on any platform, be it social, uh, be it online video, be it display, be it search, wherever it's being used.
22:45
SPEAKER_03: So whatever is the market standard of ensuring privacy and responsibility, whether it's clean rooms, whether it's obfuscation, whether it is uh other methods that are in the industry relevant, those are the ones uh that need to be used, right?
23:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh and so that's why when we uh in my past life, right, when I've been a TikToker at Google, right, like you you sort of build products which uh comply with the market policy requirements, right?
23:15
SPEAKER_03: And you sort of and different markets just emerge in different uh ways of technology uh being used, right?
23:21
SPEAKER_03: So I would say clean rooms uh is the answer, but uh, I mean, full disclosure, I our CTV right now is US market, right?
23:31
SPEAKER_03: We're still in, as I shared with you, we're still early stage uh in our development, and that's why we are US market here.
23:37
SPEAKER_03: We operate in clean rooms, right?
23:39
SPEAKER_03: To uh to be able to uh converge on first party data.
23:43
SPEAKER_03: And again, the so that's the thing with biology is underscore.
23:47
SPEAKER_03: It is for us, first party data is just seed data, right?
23:52
SPEAKER_03: The goal is to find similar users and bring them to the website, right?
23:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh so that's uh that sort of is a is a some it's a seed and a look-alike audiences that we operate on.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Jason, do you have a point of view on responsible use of data?
24:10
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: And it completely it completely backs up what Rao was saying.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: I think my angle can be more European-led, and and and obviously under um GDPR, privacy is the foundational pillar.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: The answer is 100% data collaboration, data collaboration platforms or data clean rooms, whatever you want to call them.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, I obviously work closely with the guys at um InfoSum, and it's been a great journey since they've been um on board because you know they have privacy enhancing practices, you know, decentralized data collaboration in place where raw data never moves and remains within the um data owners environment.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: So what I have seen is that you know they they have some great case studies on this exact topic.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, and for example, you know, I've seen them at quite a few um events where they're talking about their collaboration with um UK grossers like Sainsbury's and Tesco, and then with um broadcasters like um ITV and you know the ITV X and um channel four with you know for um OD and you know taking those um retailer um audiences and matching them up on the um CTV.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, they were able to really drive good business outcomes, you know, boost sales for a number of CPG brands, which is um which is great and exactly what we've been talking about.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: So just so I understand correctly, are we is it already possible to from what you're saying, Jason, to clearly connect CTV exposure?
25:47
SPEAKER_00: So if I've been exposed to an ad on a CTV platform and then I go and buy something um in a retail media net in a read from a retailer on the back of seeing that ad, is it possible to connect those two things to connect the exposure to the shopping outcome?
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: So the CTV publishing, you know, generates the um exposure log of who um saw the ad, you know, that that can go then back into the collaboration environment that can then be you know matched in a privacy-enhanced way against the retailer's real-time transaction um log.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, we can definitively say this household saw the ad on Tuesday and bought the coffee in store on Thursday, you know, if they've got that loyalty program.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: So resoundingly, yes.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: But you do need you do need those underlying conditions in, particularly for in-store loyalty, very, very important.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: So with that in mind then, um, Rahu, what metrics or what kind of insights matter most with the convergence of retail retail media and connected TV?
26:52
SPEAKER_00: What do you really need to be able to connect those those two things?
26:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so in terms of our 100% of our campaigns that we run in performance CTV are CPA gold or ROAS gold, right?
27:05
SPEAKER_03: So these are all lower funnel campaigns.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: I think when we talk to advertisers, the the gap that exists where IAB can really help is standardization of how is CTV exposure gonna be measured.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: So the big elephant in the room is CTV is not clickable, right?
27:27
SPEAKER_03: So everything is an exposure and you're connecting it to conversion.
27:32
SPEAKER_03: Now, most of the world is still, I mean, again, like there could be multi-touch attribution, et cetera, but it is around clicks, right?
27:40
SPEAKER_03: And it assumes, and we've been in this, like the ads industry has been so focused on clicks that people have now started thinking that click is the performance.
27:49
SPEAKER_03: Click is not the performance.
27:51
SPEAKER_03: Click is reducing friction in the performance.
27:54
SPEAKER_03: The performance is in conversion, right?
27:56
SPEAKER_03: Which is that purchase online in the app or in store, right?
28:00
SPEAKER_03: So where all measurement is possible now in this clean room setup and this lab privacy-safe setup, where you have an exposure and you can go and sort of see the conversion event happening, provided there's again, again, like I think the most difficult one is the footfall, right?
28:16
SPEAKER_03: The offline conversion where you need to be able to link back a purchase through a loyalty program or something.
28:24
SPEAKER_03: All those are measurable.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: The part where there is the biggest challenge right now is how do you attribute CTV exposure?
28:32
SPEAKER_03: Do you make it equivalent of a click?
28:35
SPEAKER_03: Do you make it a view-through?
28:37
SPEAKER_03: When does it start losing to other view-throughs?
28:40
SPEAKER_03: So uh, and there's a really interesting uh uh emergence of a standard here on the app side.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh in the app ecosystem, TV is deemed a click because most app advertisers are working on a last click basis.
28:55
SPEAKER_03: So TV is deemed a click for a very limited period.
28:59
SPEAKER_03: Like it could be in hours, right?
29:01
SPEAKER_03: So it could you could set it as low as one hour.
29:03
SPEAKER_03: So if the conversion happens in one hour after TV exposure, TV would be deemed a click and it would beat all subsequent view-throughs, but it would still lose to subsequent clicks.
29:15
SPEAKER_03: So I think that is where, again, this is like a really it converts to a click.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's obviously not a click, but it converts to a click.
29:22
SPEAKER_03: It is deemed a click, right?
29:23
SPEAKER_03: Because the advertiser and the MMP is still using a last click attribution.
29:28
SPEAKER_03: So it would, and last click attribution, all clicks beat view throughs, and all subsequent view throughs also beat previous view throughs.
29:38
SPEAKER_03: So you can imagine a journey, right, where you see the ad on TV, you obviously can't convert on your TV, you pick out your phone.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: Now you go would go on any of the search engines, search, be shown another ad of the same product, choose to not click that clickable ad, right?
30:00
SPEAKER_03: And go and convert uh on that side.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: If you do not deem the CTV exposure as a click, the second non-clicked ad will take the credit.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_03: Because so again, I in terms of the metrics, the same metrics that the advertiser cares about.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: Like again, depending on where you are, we operate in the lower funnel.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: So we are looking at ROAS and CPAs uh uh for our uh convergence and stuff.
30:24
SPEAKER_03: And like again, we see a lot of times that incrementality comes into question, but the real big thing over here is a lack of a standard of how is CTV exposure going to be attributed because the surface is not clickable.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: It's actually something we are building at the moment is a CTV measurement framework, which covers some of that, not the entire challenge, but some of it as a starting point.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, Jason, what else do you see as kind of measurement challenges that that potentially need to be addressed by the industry?
31:03
SPEAKER_02: I would probably just back that up.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: To be fair, and I do feel like there is you know a big need for um standardization and consistency around that.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: I feel what is very, very important and something that that um we did talk about in the previous section was you know the level of um the level of impact and attention that comes with a CTB ad versus you know clicking a display ad or um or responsive ad.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: And and it's just very, very, it's just very, very different.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: So this is something that we really need to um, this is something that we really, really do need to keep in mind.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, um Raoul's last really just you know then reaffirms what I always say is that you know, last touch or last click attribution is just a nonsense model, but you know, it it's uh it's it's you know the easier model to kind of implement and you know has become like industry standard, but it it drives me nuts to be um honest for the exact reasons that that that you know Rao um pointed out.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: But um I remember when I was younger and used to watch TV and you know when I was a kid, and you know, we would we would talk about ads, like we remembered ads.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: We would sing the songs to ads to each other, you know, that some of them were even more popular than uh than pop songs, right?
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, we don't have the same level of affinity for you know a skyscraper display ad or you know or a more PLA or you know, whatever you you want to call it.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, there is a need for context around this and you know the level of intention, the level of attention and the level of impact, you know, because it it's premium media, you know, versus um versus those um other things.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that that's one thing, you know, I I guess it's not really an answer, it's just me kind of a stream of consciousness um around you know some of the challenges that exist and what makes this what makes this so exciting as well.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: And just in terms of kind of industry consistency or industry standards around how you account for exposure and connected TV and how that then attributes to you know whether it's a sale or whatever the outcome is, uh do you think the industry, do you think advertisers particularly are ready for this, or is are we still in too much of a kind of test and learn phase, or do we need it now before we get too far?
33:26
SPEAKER_00: Like what do you think?
33:27
SPEAKER_02: No, no, they're they're they're ready.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: Like IB Europe, I mean, our data, right?
33:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, on the um on the attitudes to retail media shows 42% of buyers are actively looking to expand into off-site channels like CTB.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: But you know, there is there is that operational friction, you know, that that lack of um standardization, which you know, we can apply to everything, but even more so to this channel.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, the way the way that we're working on it at um WPP Media and something that I'm very involved in within the the media solution side of the business is you know, we we've created many single point of access solutions, you know, to make sure that we can make these media buys more consistent for our clients.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: And that's a single point of access on the inventory side, i.e., with you know, all of the different broadcasters, because it's a very fragmented broadcaster space, but also in relation to the audience and data side of things on the retailer as well, and trying to create a single point of um access, you know, to to retailer data at the same time.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: So um, so you know, lots of lots of sort of different approaches being employed to tackle the same challenge.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, that that challenge is very real and you know, advertisers are very, very ready for something better and you know more workable.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: That's good to know.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so looking ahead, how what do you think is going to happen in the next 12 months between the develop or on the development of retail media and connected TV?
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's going to be the measurement piece?
35:02
SPEAKER_00: What do you think is going to be the core thing that's going to develop in the next 12 months, Rahoul?
35:11
SPEAKER_03: I think Jason can probably add the lens on like in Europe uh specifically, uh what's the trend?
35:19
SPEAKER_03: I'm not close to that market right now.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: I do see the convergence of offset extension and CTV happening, right?
35:27
SPEAKER_03: Performance CTV is just taking off quite a lot.
35:31
SPEAKER_03: A lot of uh growth on performance CTV is actually coming from commerce, but like it's largely indirect to consumer.
35:38
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but what it shows is the CTV exposure can drive a purchase, right?
35:44
SPEAKER_03: And uh that's clearly happening.
35:46
SPEAKER_03: You can see industry news in the US about uh acquisitions and mergers of uh retail companies and performance CTV players in the space.
35:57
SPEAKER_03: So that is clearly a tide that is coming in.
36:01
SPEAKER_03: And one thing to remember here is a lot of fast inventory is still unsold.
36:06
SPEAKER_03: Right?
36:06
SPEAKER_03: So the fill rates for these publishers are still not where they would want them to be.
36:13
SPEAKER_03: And that performance demand is what is going to help the publisher ecosystem to also thrive and it diversifies and in ways there's it's it's completely different dynamics that it adds and helps stabilize the ad load and the fill rates and the RPMs for publisher side.
36:31
SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot of to this convergence happening, and I definitely see more and more partnerships, pilots, tests happening uh with between retail media companies and CTV provider players.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jason.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: What do you what do you see is developing in the next 12 months?
36:53
SPEAKER_02: I think potential consolidation of tech stacks in in relation to you know this buying.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: And we're already seeing that within the DSP and the SSP kind of space and you know the convergence between demand and um supply.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: We already touched on data collaboration and data clean rooms and how they're gonna have a you know a bigger and more important role to play.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: We also touched on non-endemic brands.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: Um I feel we're gonna see a surge in in this use case.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: European ad spend is forecast to grow.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: I think we have the numbers at 6.9% for this year.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: I haven't read ADX yet, so um, slap on the wrist for me, but I look forward to diving into that um soon.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: I've just got to download it.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: I have been on holiday, so you can forgive me for that.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, I firmly do believe that CTB powered by retail data will be, you know, one of the primary drivers um of this growth.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: And um, and you know, Rahul did um highlight that beautifully um when he was talking about you know the um the the fill rates maybe not being where they need to be.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, this this could provide incentive for that.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: Cool, thank you.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: And um yes, you are forgiven for not reading addicts just yet.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: Um spoiler alert, growth was around 10%, so so still fairly strong.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so thank you both so much for your thoughts on the convergence of Retail Media and Connected TV.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: We always like to just finish the podcast off with something a little bit different.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: Jason, you will know this, you've done these before, but just a quick fire round.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: We are focused on the summer in this one, given we are just um going into the summer holiday season.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: I know you've both been on holiday, but what would be your dream summer holiday destination if you if you could choose?
38:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh Rahul, if you if you kick us off.
38:41
SPEAKER_03: I know I'm not supposed to say this, but I just love being in London in summer.
38:45
SPEAKER_03: I'm a big cricket fan.
38:47
SPEAKER_03: I grew up in India.
38:48
SPEAKER_03: So if I could catch a test at Lodge, that would be amazing.
38:51
SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm also I'm right now.
38:54
SPEAKER_03: I came from Alaska, which is really cold and wet.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh so I am looking, if I could go back on a summer vacation, it would be to a warm destination.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Jason?
39:04
SPEAKER_02: I've never met anyone from who came from Alaska before.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: So no number, we've got so many things to talk about if we do ever um meet up.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, that would be great.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, you you can't beat London in the summer.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's great.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: Mine, mine would be Philippines and my family's home island hinter Toro.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: It's it's paradise on Uh.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: So um, so yeah, that would always be my um that would always be my first choice.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: Very idyllic, very small island, blue water, incredible.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: You sold it.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: And final one, early morning swim or drinks at sunset.
39:44
SPEAKER_03: Okay, if if my mom is listening, uh early morning drink.
39:47
SPEAKER_03: Early morning swim, not drink, early morning swim.
39:50
SPEAKER_03: I think she would want you to make her deal choices.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: It can be a it can be a juice at sunset.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Jason?
39:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that that that would be mine as well.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: Although I do love a swim, but um, but yeah, there's something about sunset drinks, and yeah, even though even though I don't drink um alcohol, I've been away in um the Morocco and we would um we would go to a rooftop bar for sunset, overlooking the bazaar, mint tea or um uh fresh orange juice, um peak of my day.
40:20
SPEAKER_02: So um so yeah, sunset drinks.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, look, thank you both very much for taking the time and sharing all of your insights, case studies, and um thoughts with us today.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure our listeners will take a lot away.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Pleasure.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, guys.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Really appreciate it.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for tuning in to the Retail Media Roundtable.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: We'll be back soon with another website to make sure to subscribe to date data.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, you can visit ibf.edu that will relate to the retail media retulted and in title to help you navigate this dynamic space.