Latest / Not All Business / How to Give Feedback Without the Drama

Transcript

How to Give Feedback Without the Drama · Not All Business

0:00
Welcome to Not All Business, a podcast by two former CE OS who
0:04
went from competitors to friends.
0:06
I'm Blakely Graham and my Co host is Heather Cooper, and
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we're joined by our producer Clay Cornell, who has edited
0:12
this episode so that it's perfect.
0:15
Today's sticky situation is how to give feedback to somebody.
0:19
If you're a people pleaser like me.
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And let me tell y'all, it's not 6 steps, it's only 5 1/2.
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I woke up this morning one of my one of my best friends.
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She's going to be on the show in a few weeks.
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I, I will save her name for later.
0:43
She's like quick feedback. You look naked on the show.
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I'm like damn. It you were naked last week.
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I did have a tank top and I definitely look naked on the
0:54
show. It was hot because I'm married
0:56
to like this guy who likes to, it's like 76° in here.
1:01
It's insane. And so then I can't have the
1:03
window open and I got this bright light in my face.
1:07
And so I just took my sweater off.
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And then I had a tank top, but my hair was covering it.
1:12
So I look naked on the show. Sorry everyone.
1:15
I feel like that's on brand. For me to look naked on the
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show. Sure, why not?
1:21
We're like supposed to be a little bit risky, a little bit
1:25
non conventional. Talk about the situations that
1:28
you know a. Little bit naked, yeah, yeah.
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Only like half naked. Yeah, it's getting good reviews
1:35
so far. Yeah.
1:37
Do we want to talk about something else before we go?
1:40
Oh, I do. I had a day today.
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So normally I spend the day. So I want to like, I prepare for
1:46
these podcasts, these interviews, and this is where I
1:51
wish maybe our guest had little earmuffs on, but I had no time
1:56
to prepare today because my daughter had to go to the ENT
2:01
for the seventh time this month. Yeah, So last night.
2:05
Bad Mom. That's what I hear when I say.
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When I hear that, I hear bad. So I've taken into.
2:12
Urgent care three times, the ER once, and the ENT that I'm cash
2:16
paying because our insurance is shit.
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Because you can't get fucking insurance anymore and you think
2:21
I'm a bad mom? Well I think Child Protective
2:23
Services just perked up. I think 7 visits to ER in a
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month is a lot. Well, it is.
2:30
It is and she's got some big tonsils, but she told me this
2:35
last night at like 520 or something.
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She's like, Mom, I've got to go to the doctor right now.
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Call. I'm like, I can't, it's closed.
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So I woke up early. I like she's like, have you?
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Called yet? Have you called yet?
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And it's. Like 758, I'm like, I had to
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wait 2 minutes and then at 8:00 have you called?
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And so I got her appointment and I'm like, is it hurting you?
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She's like, no, it's just like so swollen I can barely swallow.
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I'm like, OK, she was, but that's not the point.
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The point is it's homecoming. I'm like, oh.
3:02
Yeah, and you didn't even know about homecoming.
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I feel like. I mean, the bad moms.
3:08
I mean, it's piling up. OK, we're not going to go into
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my OK, but it's been a week. OK.
3:15
But here, what was awesome about today is I spent instead of
3:19
prepping for the show as I normally did, I got the
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perspective of what Homecoming means to my daughter.
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And then about an hour before I came into the studio, my son was
3:32
home with all of his guy friends.
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And I got the guy perspective. And the difference is
3:38
fascinating. It's fascinating.
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And I know that we have royalty in the room, in the house.
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Were you homecoming? Queen, I mean, I was queen, if
3:53
you're going to reference and get it right.
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But also, is it fascinating, the difference of how guys are
3:58
looking at homecoming versus girls is that I feel like I kind
4:01
of gutterly just know what that night's about.
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I guess I just assumed it was the same like when we were
4:08
going. Dance with you, Olive Garden.
4:11
It's. Yes.
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So none of this is happening anymore.
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None of it. So here is my daughter's
4:17
homecoming agenda. She's waking up Saturday
4:19
morning. This is why she cannot have a
4:20
sore throat. She's getting in the shower,
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then her and her friends are going to the nail salon.
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They're getting their nails done.
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And when they did nails, they'd like put them on and do designs
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and whatever down. Then they go to house 1 and at
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house one they all get handed out matching PJS.
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And at that house there's munchies, like brunch munchies
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that they can snack on. And then they make bouquets,
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which I don't get. Like we used to have corsages
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and boutonnieres, right? You just bought them at the like
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the Safeway? No, So they have they make
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bouquets. Yeah, yeah.
4:55
Oh yeah. Wait.
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For it. This is insane.
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And then they get out of the awesome.
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In the in the morning there, the girls are just doing this, yeah.
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This is the girl's agenda. I'm going to give you the guy's
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agenda. So this is the girl's agenda.
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They they put on their dresses and that's another big
5:13
difference. They have special underwear to
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put on under the dresses because their dresses do not cover their
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asses. And they have bouncy castles at
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prom or homecoming or whatever. So they need something
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underneath. Dresses are so short.
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They put those on and then they put on heels.
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This is important. So then they get in cars.
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They drive across town to house 2 that has like the most
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beautiful view, and they take pictures with all the girls.
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And then the guys show up in the friend group.
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I'm like, well, how many people are you talking about, 42?
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4 kids are popular. And for them, this is my story.
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Yeah, it's crazy. Though not everybody has that.
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So then they take those shoes off and they put their Adidas.
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Last year it was Converse, this year's it's Adidas.
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I'm on board with this. They drive to house 3.
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That's my house, house 3. And this is where I'm so
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embarrassed by like what we agreed to do.
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We're having sushi is. That what they call it.
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A lot of money sushi and I go, is it just the girls or just the
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guys? And she's like, I don't know
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yet. She's like, it's for sure girls,
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they're doing sushi. If the guys come, we can add
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pizza on. Awesome.
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They don't have to squeeze into those dresses.
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So it's a. What?
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We're in house 3. So then they walk up to oh,
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Nope, one more thing. She's a junior, her boyfriend's
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a senior. Her boyfriend isn't allowed to
6:44
do any of that stuff. But now that that the friend
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group is like solid now boyfriend can come in, we can
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take another picture. Oh boyfriend's awesome.
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I love this kid. And then they walk up together
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to the high school. They stay for a hot 2nd and then
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they go to house 4 which is the after party like that's.
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Oh, God bless house 4. God bless house four.
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Yeah, we were thankful we went to house four.
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Yeah, that same, same. Wow.
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Yeah. It's a little different than
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Olive Garden and the dance. And then went home.
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I mean, that was different. What?
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What we did? That's what we did.
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We wore knee length dresses, we had corsages.
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It was about the romance. It was about getting asked.
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Now you don't ask. This is the other detail I.
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Love that though. You don't get asked unless
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you're dating someone And my son said you basically like, oh, he
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used a really good word Like you lose not like credibility.
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That's like an adult word, but like you lose some like points
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if. You give.
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Like the Homecoming poster, you do not do that unless you're at
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least in talking status. But they do like these
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homecoming. Posters, the proposal, like the
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promposals and stuff like that. Poor guys.
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Jeez. It used to just be like, hey,
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are you going to the dance with anybody?
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Do you want to go? And that was it.
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And now they have to have a theme and like you're my
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lifesaver with like lifesavers all over the board.
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I just came up with that. By the way, feel free to use it.
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Lifesavers. That's, I don't know, spots in
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my head. And they sell those at the five
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and dime. Heather I.
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Think you do get OK? My daughter actually, she made a
8:33
poster for oh this is spoiler alert this is coming out this
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Thursday. She has not given this poster to
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her boyfriend yet so if he is a listener like just earmuff this
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but she's actually making a poster for him because she
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thinks it's wrong. That guy should have all the
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pressure. And she's like I'm.
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An artist you know, I'd love to do it, so she made one.
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It's amazing. And yeah, so now the guy's
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perspective. My son comes over today with two
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guys. They're sitting listening to,
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like, some music. I don't know, there's chilling.
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I'm like, what do you guys think about all this prom stuff?
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And he's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, give me your
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agenda. He's like, what do you mean?
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Like, what do you do to get ready?
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He's like, oh, no, like, I don't know.
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It's like you put some jeans on if you're feeling it, Like maybe
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you put on a button down and then you like, go, I go.
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Well, do you eat? Do you go out to dinner?
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I think we'll do, like, microwave pizza this year.
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OK. Do you do pictures?
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No, but like, we might go to Jackson's and do some flips and
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get some shots of that. You know, they go to the dance.
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What's for jackpots? Is that like a trampoline park?
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Sounds like his friend's house. Like the?
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Friend that's hosting the the microwave pizza.
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Oh, it's a person's name, OK. I guess so, yeah.
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House one, house one for the boys.
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That's all they get. They only get one house.
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They go to the dance and they're but you know, they're super
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introspective. They're like, you know, mom,
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it's not about romance anymore. Homecoming is about like
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friends. And they don't even play slow
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songs. Do you remember this?
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Like dancing? Like I do and it was painful and
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embarrassing and I hated it. I'm glad that there.
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I mean, there was, it was so sad to be a girl that did not get
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asked. I was absolutely that girl.
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And it was like last minute and it was an afterthought.
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And it was just like, really wait.
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Wait, wait. Back it up.
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What do you mean you are absolutely that girl.
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You were homecoming queen and you didn't get asked.
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Were you one of those like, bitchy Slayer bloomers?
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I don't want to talk to you kind of girls.
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No what? No, I bloomed over the years
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because I came from like this crazy private school, like
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super, super, really strict. Like I wore dress and knee socks
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in my first day of public high school.
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It was a whole thing. So it took me a bit, but I I got
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there. But at first, well, back in the
11:01
day, homecoming wasn't about, you know, I mean, it was about
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you wanted to get something to happen at the end of the night.
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Yeah, that's in Detroit anyway. I don't know.
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But that's, I mean, there was some expectations and everybody
11:13
was pretty clear there was there was nothing that was going to
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happen at the end of the night with me because that's what I
11:18
tell myself. Because you know how we do in
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Detroit, you know? Because you know how you do in
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Detroit, Yeah. You get down to business, Yeah.
11:24
You know what we're doing? What we're doing Ice Cube.
11:28
That's an inside joke, The ice cube.
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Thing. It's an inside joke and also.
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OK, can we go on this little tangent real quick?
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Ice Cube is in Colorado right now, Blakely said.
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She had an opportunity possibly to hang out with him.
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She didn't get. Invited.
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I didn't say that I did. She hasn't changed a bit since
11:46
last episode where she said she was going to change a bit.
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You haven't changed a bit. She said she was going to get
11:50
invited. She didn't get invited.
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So then Clay said, what's the other artist in Detroit and you
11:54
said or? No, actually, I guess actually
11:57
our wait, our guest asked that question, correct.
12:01
God bless her. I think our guest asked it.
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Yeah. And then Blakely said, go ahead,
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Blakers say it. Said OK, first of all, my name
12:08
is yeah, Blakers. Second of all, I said M&M&M's
12:14
Eminem. I know what his name is.
12:16
And then you said his name. Is what?
12:21
Am I supposed to say slim name is?
12:22
What? There we go.
12:24
There we go. You're back.
12:25
I'm Sadie. M&M's is.
12:28
She says, OK, then you're going to lose Clay again.
12:30
Clay turned off his thing. He went.
12:32
He had to take a walk around the block.
12:33
Then he came back. It's Eminem.
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Why did that come up anyway? Is it ice cube from Detroit I
12:37
thought he was from? No, because you said Ice Cube
12:40
and it was like, no one says it like that, that's why you didn't
12:42
get invited. You didn't get invited.
12:45
You would not have gotten invited.
12:47
Detroit. And why could am I supposed to
12:50
say Ice Cube not Ice Cube? We're going to work on it.
12:53
We got to get to our guest. We we can't waste any more time
12:56
on this. All right, let's go.
12:57
But just before I just in good conscience, I can't let you.
13:00
It's Eminem. No, no, no Eminem.
13:03
'S fun of him because he's just like a little.
13:06
Oh, do you want to? I don't think you want to keep
13:08
what? What did you don't?
13:10
What? He's a little he's.
13:15
Kind of whiny. Oh boy, we're going to have to
13:18
get to it, I guess. Clay, you take a walk around the
13:20
block, we'll come back. Do you guys?
13:24
Love this guy. Yes, Blakely, with all of our
13:27
heart, eight mile, eight mile is true and I lived very near there
13:34
in all of the things. OK, we guys, we have to get to
13:36
Julie. The poor thing is going to be.
13:38
OK, let's go to Julie. Today's guest was recently
13:41
featured in msn.com's Female Powerhouses You Should Know, and
13:44
it's easy to see why. Julie Halonga has impacted over
13:48
8000 professionals and teams to eradicate lazy leadership.
13:52
She worked at Harvard University.
13:54
She still reviews manuscripts for the Harvard Business Review
13:57
and is famous for her Ted Talk. Don't let your words sabotage
14:00
your career. Please give a warm welcome to
14:03
Julie Halonga. Hi everyone, Blakely here.
14:09
This episode of Not All Business is brought to you by yours
14:12
truly, where strategist Cindy Forgard helps growth minded
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leaders navigate pivotal moments with confidence.
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I worked with Cindy when I was CEO of Task Gray, and she's what
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I call a CEO whisperer. She helped us execute a complete
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brand pivot, boosted me up as a leader, and set us up to hit
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Whether you've hit a growth plateau or you're evolving your
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Yours truly provides the strategic guidance you need.
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Because what got you here won't always get you where you want to
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help push you forward. Visit itsyourstruly.com and
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mention Not all business for complimentary strategy
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consultation. OK, back to the show.
15:03
Thank you for listening to our nonsense in the background as we
15:06
talked. Did you hear it?
15:08
Entertaining, I know. Well, thank you for bringing out
15:10
that Blakely didn't know how to say Eminem, so that is just
15:13
fantastic. You're welcome.
15:15
You're welcome. All right, well, Julie, let's
15:20
just jump in here. So you know, you and I, I'll
15:23
tell a quick story about how we met.
15:25
And I'm, I'm curious to see if you actually remember this.
15:27
So we were at a chief event. It was down in Denver and that
15:31
was the first time. And these things are always kind
15:33
of awkward. Blakely.
15:34
I don't know if you've ever gone to these types of I don't know
15:37
if you're in chief. Did they?
15:38
It's an invite only, so I don't know.
15:42
Don't even start lead or buy boards on invite only.
15:45
I know, I know, I know. Ice cubes that we're going to
15:47
invite me to the field today. I know, and I lose every time.
15:50
Anyway, it's an executive women's network.
15:52
It's pretty awesome. Anyway, so we met at an invent
15:55
there and they're a little bit awkward because they're all
15:57
these successful, confident women.
16:00
But then we're in this room, nobody knows each other.
16:02
So you're kind of looking for somebody to make friends with.
16:05
And you know that always that awkward moment to start.
16:07
And so Julie and I, we just kind of, I don't remember if I walked
16:09
up to you or you walked up to me, but it.
16:11
Was instantly. What I remember is that you be
16:13
lined for me when I walked in and I was like, whoa, whoa,
16:15
look. Sounds great, Who's coming?
16:18
For me. K Cross and Wrong.
16:20
Hi, I'm Heather. Hi.
16:22
Hi. Will you be my friend?
16:24
Will you be my friend? That sounds exciting.
16:27
I was homecoming queen. Please, Oh my God.
16:30
Please. I'm so mean.
16:33
I'm so sorry. That's how that's how I got all
16:35
my friends. OK.
16:37
Alright. Julie.
16:40
Yeah. No, I want to hear from your
16:41
perspective. That's so funny.
16:42
Because I do. Yeah.
16:42
I'm here. I'm like, I don't know, just
16:44
like you come up to me or did I come to you?
16:48
Oh, you'd be lying. There was no coming up to I.
16:51
Know I was. Just like you're like, hey, a
16:56
lot of energy, a lot of energy. But do you know what I remember
17:00
in addition to meeting you that night, and this was a few years
17:03
ago, several years ago was, you know, you're talking about like
17:08
really impressive women. It was like 1 bad ass woman
17:10
after the other. And one of the women, whose name
17:14
I don't remember, had worked on and was one of the founders of
17:21
Ozempic. Ozempic.
17:22
Ozempic, I was going to talk to you about this.
17:24
Do you remember that awkward moment?
17:26
Is that what you want to? Talk about yes.
17:28
Because. Do you remember this?
17:30
Because we were talking to her and I asked her like, what's
17:34
your perspective? I was watching my words.
17:38
What's your perspective of Ozempic being used for weight
17:43
loss? And she, she was so she was
17:47
amazing. And she was like, we're.
17:50
Going to get her on here. Oh yeah, you have to.
17:53
She's. Like what did she say?
17:55
She was like very smart about how she answered it and very
18:02
because she. Invented it for diabetics.
18:04
For diabetes exactly. And then she did talk about the,
18:08
the, the supply issues. So she, she didn't directly come
18:14
out and say I don't agree. She was, she was very good.
18:18
But then literally within 5 minutes of me asking that
18:23
question, you know, people are networking and moving about,
18:26
another woman comes up who was hysterical by the way.
18:30
She's like a former collegiate basketball player.
18:32
I mean, I'm saying like every woman there was just
18:36
unbelievable. And so then at some point in the
18:39
conversation, it comes up again that she worked on.
18:43
I mean, she was like the founder developer of Ozempic.
18:46
And this woman is like, I'm not epic and I love it and it's and
18:51
I'm like, oh God, this is exactly.
18:53
Thank God she wasn't here. But that woman just kept such a
18:57
great poker face. She had a smile on her face.
19:00
You would never have known what was brewing up here.
19:05
I. Love because when I thought
19:07
about how we met, I remembered that moment because I knew we
19:09
would be friends because we both looked at each other like holy
19:12
shit, did that just happen because she had I mean the woman
19:16
who invented I mean she'd been working out for 20 years.
19:18
She worked, you know, it was started out ear, nose and throat
19:23
and then sleep studies and all that and all leading back to
19:25
like this for this drug. And so she was very frustrated
19:27
by the difficulty of getting the drug out to.
19:31
There was a huge shortage and then it was only getting, you
19:33
know, by celebrities or people who didn't necessarily need it
19:35
for their health reasons. And so the world in a different
19:38
place, the markets in a different place right now.
19:39
Oprah looks slim right now. She does and she looks great and
19:45
she's actually somebody who is perfect for that.
19:47
Like that is right, You know, it's anyway, no judgment on
19:51
who's using it or when or why, but at that time it it really
19:56
was an issue from a shortage perspective.
19:57
And so when the other woman walked up who was just
20:01
absolutely, I mean, she's gorgeous woman, she's just maybe
20:04
needed to lose 10 lbs. Like, you know, it was just like
20:06
the exact exact reason of why this other woman got out.
20:12
She just. Walked right up.
20:14
Oh, God, I looked at you, Julie. I just laughed so hard.
20:17
I know. OK, well, hey, that was a good
20:20
example of professionalism. And.
20:22
Totally. It was really impressive.
20:24
Communicate. Yeah, yes, it really was.
20:28
But you, that is kind of your wheelhouse, I think if I think
20:33
about teaching people how to react in situations like that.
20:36
So from your perspective as a professional who's living in
20:39
those situations day in, day out, tell me more.
20:42
Yeah, well, it's exactly what you just said.
20:45
You know, it's that whether we call it a poker face or
20:48
professional, however you want to say it, but what I always
20:51
tell leaders is really think about how you want to come
20:54
across, right? Because wouldn't that have been
20:56
a totally different story? We'd have had a totally
20:59
different perspective on her had she responded.
21:04
But that's not what it's used for.
21:05
And there are people out there who really need it.
21:07
And do you really need it right like that?
21:09
I mean, I I am. I don't like conflict so I'm
21:15
always trying to build nice profession.
21:16
You chose? Yeah.
21:17
Yeah, I'll teach others how to deal with it.
21:20
That's not what it says on your website.
21:23
Yeah. So I like to teach others how to
21:25
deal with it, and I've learned to deal with it, but it I don't
21:28
like those awkward moments, right?
21:30
Like, and I mean, even to the point, if I'm out to dinner with
21:33
girlfriends, I hate being the one to taste the wine because if
21:36
I don't like it, I'm not going to send it back, you know, or
21:40
like, I'm not going to be the one to say, hey, can you heat up
21:42
my food? Yeah, because what's right?
21:45
So. And maybe that's a little people
21:47
pleasing. No, it's I.
21:48
That's a bucket list of mine to send back a bottle of wine.
21:51
I've never had the guts to do it, but I just.
21:53
Would you do that though? But I know enough.
21:55
About wine, Phil Scott was on the bucket list.
21:58
I don't. Like why is your bucket?
22:00
List about negative like making someone feel bad.
22:05
I don't get it. It's not really.
22:07
It's just because I think it's a power movement.
22:09
It would make me feel cool. I'd probably go.
22:11
I'd probably leave and be like, I'm sorry about that.
22:13
I will pay for it. Just don't tell anybody else.
22:16
You should just be one of those people that buys like the
22:18
$400.00 wine and then I push it and spit it out.
22:21
Spit it out. Yeah.
22:22
What's the? Purpose.
22:23
That's the worst, but yeah, OK. But to the point of the
22:26
conversation, doesn't isn't that moment when you're supposed to
22:30
taste the wine not actually about if you like the wine, it's
22:33
actually to to? Whether it's bad or not.
22:37
It's like. It's wrong.
22:39
So in that sense, you know, many people would read that situation
22:43
as like, do I like this? Do I not like this?
22:45
I should make a value judgment on this as opposed to this is
22:48
actually like a yes or no question as a part.
22:51
So like that's. Actually a great that's like
22:57
revisionist history, right? Like we have morphed the tasting
23:02
of the wine. But you're right, Clay, the
23:04
origin is like, is it a porked wine or not a corked wine?
23:07
And if it's corked, of course you're I have sent back a porked
23:09
wine before, but that's it's very obvious.
23:12
So you're right. Let's fix history on this.
23:15
Right, because I've been at dinner here in Golden.
23:18
We have a a wine like a wine bar.
23:22
Oh, the place on the corner. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
23:25
And this is years ago. I was at a friend's birthday
23:27
party. She had a friend there who I
23:30
knew of but didn't know. And the woman tried to send back
23:34
the wine. And I was crawling under the
23:37
table because it was just no offense, Heather.
23:41
No, it was such a power. Like it was a it was a Dick
23:44
move. Are we allowed to say that you.
23:46
Are a bucket list to. Know enough about wine that I
23:50
should have to send it back, but you didn't let me.
23:51
Find OK, that's different. That's that's not being a power
23:54
move. This was like and the and the
23:57
waiter was like, it's it's fine if you don't like it, I
24:00
understand, but it's fine. And I so badly want to like give
24:04
him a high 5 hug him because she was she was awful.
24:07
She also happened, total side note, when my friend, you know,
24:10
there were a dozen of us there, she was opening up presents and
24:13
I got her this really funky vase that you put out in the wall.
24:16
It was like more of an art piece than I thought.
24:20
It was really cool too. Everyone there had gotten her
24:22
bracelets. This Remember that Annie and
24:24
Annie and Annie and Alex and Annie bracelets.
24:28
Oh I do, I know what you're talking about.
24:30
I think they had a store in Boulder for a hot 2nd and then
24:33
it went. Out.
24:34
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But they were really popular, I
24:36
think, you know, And 90% of the people there got her one of
24:40
those. And I didn't.
24:41
And when my friend opened up the vase, this woman, the wine
24:45
taster bitch. Yeah, the wine bitch.
24:48
She's like, Oh my God, what is that?
24:51
And I again want to crawl under the table.
24:54
Oh. Honey, what is?
24:56
That why are you at this party? Ladies, can we support each
25:01
other? Yeah.
25:03
Seriously. Horrible.
25:05
That's horrible. But but back to your point about
25:08
like the communication of it like that, you know, that woman,
25:11
the Ozempic woman queen and this wine bitch, right?
25:16
Like, yeah, yeah. That painted the picture for me
25:18
in one night. I never want to hang out with
25:21
the wine bitch, right? And and the Ozempic queen,
25:25
right? Like if I saw her, I don't
25:27
remember her name but I think I would.
25:30
Manning. Oh, yeah, yeah, she's amazing.
25:33
She is. I would want to be in her
25:35
company. I would want to learn from her.
25:36
I want to hear from her. And that's why I always tell
25:39
people like, think about that. Like even if internally you're
25:43
like, all right, wine bitch, you know, you just got put in your
25:45
place. But it's the because it's her,
25:47
it was her humility. She's I mean, every, if we look
25:51
at everybody in that room as equal, OK, right.
25:55
There's the person who's going to be overbearing and judgmental
26:00
and harsh and where what's that coming?
26:02
It's not coming out of a place of self security or, you know,
26:06
feeling confident. It's the opposite.
26:08
It's like, how am I going to distinguish myself or go back to
26:11
middle school and be like, have like a gang of people like, Oh
26:13
my God, Can you believe that Julie got her that instead?
26:16
Where Linda's like, I'm just going to be myself.
26:19
I'm going to say what's true, but I'm also going to be kind.
26:22
Yes, right. And it's deliberate, right.
26:25
It's. Deliberate and there were lots
26:27
of things that she could say and she chose kindness to empower
26:30
another woman without judgment and also answered some pretty
26:34
fantastic health questions following that.
26:36
I remember she asked like we should it be doing this or
26:39
should I do this? And then she just answered the
26:40
health questions because it was important to that woman with 0
26:44
judgement and that's helping each other instead of.
26:47
And that kindness, right? And that, and so we had this one
26:51
interaction with her and we remember, right?
26:55
And you're good because you remember her name.
26:58
But that's why I always tell people like, be really
27:00
thoughtful of how you want to be remembered.
27:04
Because what I'm seeing, my biggest issue right now with
27:07
leadership is, and I say this as a behavior, is that people are
27:12
practicing or behaving as lazy leaders.
27:16
And often times it's just there's so much on their plate.
27:19
They're going from meeting to meeting.
27:20
They don't have time to think about how do I want to show up
27:24
in this group. So lazy leaders, like they're
27:31
rushing around and they're not. They're just barking orders.
27:35
They might be barking orders and I say I'm going to correct you
27:39
on this, Blakely. It's not that they're lazy
27:41
leaders, it's the behaviour. I'm being kind here, Heather,
27:48
but it's the behaviour of lazy leadership.
27:51
Is that is that they're slipping into reactive mode?
27:54
It's so easy to do and we've all been there, right when we hear
27:59
about people saying I have 200 emails a day and I have 1000
28:03
Slack messages a day and. I can't.
28:06
I call bankruptcy on that. I'm like, what does that mean?
28:10
You call bankruptcy on that? I mean, I don't have a day job
28:14
at the moment other than being with you wonderful folks, and I
28:18
cannot keep up with my e-mail, so I just call bankruptcy.
28:21
Like screw it. Like I'm so behind that they're
28:25
just going. To is that a monopoly reference?
28:27
Like what are you saying you call bankruptcy?
28:29
You know when you call bankrupt is like you.
28:32
Like you give up. Yeah, essentially, right.
28:35
Like I'd rather wipe the slate slate clean and like get rid of
28:40
my debt. Like that's what you're doing in
28:42
bankruptcy and you're starting fresh, right?
28:44
A bit. Yeah.
28:46
I feel like that now. I can't, I mean, I can't
28:49
imagine. I was there like when we were
28:51
running the companies how they're like, it's like like it
28:55
was 20,000 times that. So I totally get it, Julie.
28:58
But are you? And I hear those behaviors and I
29:02
certainly have had and probably have those behaviors still,
29:07
hopefully not terribly lazy literary behaviors.
29:12
But are you saying to be in the moment is like that the message
29:15
to like whoever is in front of me right now, I need to like be
29:20
focused on them, looking at them, hearing them.
29:23
And that just tells them they're being seen.
29:27
Is is that the key or is there more?
29:30
Exactly. And practicing like that active
29:32
listening that we all, and we all look, we're all being
29:36
inundated with so much information and you know,
29:41
notifications constantly going off, right.
29:43
And so how do you make, whether it's your direct report or a
29:48
colleague or customer or client, how do you make them feel like
29:53
they want to do business with you or they want to work for you
29:57
and they're going to go above and beyond.
30:00
The best thing you can do is to be present.
30:02
But what I'd say is like truly listen to them and not be
30:07
distracted by the phone. Like so I have, I have kids a
30:11
little bit older than yours, Blakely.
30:13
And we were on a road trip last summer and up to Canada and 15
30:19
hour road trip in the middle of nowhere.
30:20
There's not allowed to look at, there's not allowed to stop and
30:22
do. And we were talking to the kids
30:26
about, you know, the notifications coming in and, and
30:29
how they feel about like needing to be that, that constantly
30:33
responding. And they said, well, we can do
30:36
two things at once. You guys can't do that.
30:38
Your generation can't do that, but we can do that.
30:41
And so then I pull out the neuroscience on them.
30:44
Yeah, you're like bullshit. I'm like, hold on to this,
30:47
honey. And you know, I just want to, I
30:52
want to be right because I am mom and I'm always right.
30:56
So good. I want to pull out neuroscience.
30:58
That's so badass. Right, like what it does to
31:01
their brain. And then, you know, there was
31:04
this moment of silence and then they're like, yeah, I see what
31:07
you're saying, but. And I'm like, Nope, that's not
31:11
how it is. But if you can just be with
31:13
someone, right, If they have half an hour and they can be
31:17
with them. In the in the responding to the
31:20
notifications. I mean, man, I am so guilty of
31:25
sitting in a conference room and it might be one person in there
31:29
might be 12 people in there. Whether it's my laptop screen
31:33
that's up or it's my phone, I will be pulled out into that
31:36
other moment, which is automatically communicating to
31:39
everyone else. That's something else more
31:41
important than you. Exactly.
31:42
And what you're saying has just come to my attention and I don't
31:47
think a thing of it because I am trying to like, I'm like, OK,
31:51
well, I'm an executive and, and the accountant is waiting on
31:53
this and I can multitask and I can do this, but I am 100% not
31:57
giving the people in the room the attention they deserve.
32:00
Oh, and by the way, when it's my turn to talk and I see someone
32:02
else doing that, I get annoyed. Right, exactly.
32:05
And welcome to my dinner table. Not fair.
32:09
Right. And that whole idea where
32:11
someone's like under the table, it's like, yeah, I know what
32:15
you're doing under there, right? Like it's, yeah, it's so
32:18
obvious. But let's also talk about, I
32:20
mean, it's not the benefits. Like it's not just how you want
32:25
someone to feel or how you want to be known, but there are true
32:30
inefficiencies in not giving someone your attention.
32:33
Like think about how many back and forth emails and Slack
32:36
messages you're going to have for that project because you did
32:39
not deliver clear instructions with like, as my coach used to
32:44
say, who we're having on soon clear conditions of
32:48
satisfaction. Like how do they know they're
32:50
doing a good job or not? Like there's just all this stuff
32:53
and that builds trust and it makes your whole company move
32:56
faster. I so I.
32:59
But then also, don't you have to you also then have to respect
33:03
people's time and only schedule in person face to face meetings
33:07
when it's necessary? Because if there's an.
33:09
Agenda. And there's an agenda or
33:10
something. And you if you've got
33:12
back-to-back and they are still trying to do their job, when do
33:14
you expect them to respond to those emails?
33:15
When do you expect them to get those Slack messages back like
33:18
and so if but. And that has certainly changed
33:20
in the last five years, like the uptick of meetings.
33:24
Does this need to be a meeting? And Blakely, I'm with you.
33:27
Like, if there's not agenda, I'm not joining.
33:29
And I tell all my leaders, especially when they get into
33:32
the C-Suite or one step below, even if agenda is not given to
33:37
you, ask why they want you in that meeting.
33:40
And if they don't have a very clear reason, I have this very
33:47
kind back to what we were talking about.
33:50
Like thanks so much. I can't make it, but please let
33:53
me know how I can be a resource to you or what questions come up
33:56
in the meeting. But very clear.
33:59
Hold on, I'm writing that down just a second.
34:01
Yes. Oh, Julian, Heather, do I have
34:03
something for you? I'm just going to like, hold on.
34:08
Yes. Yes, exactly, exactly, exactly.
34:14
Blakely, what are? You bingo thing, are you?
34:16
Printing memes, what are you doing?
34:18
What are you doing? You are in trouble.
34:22
I think it's. Awesome, Blakely.
34:24
Thank you, Julie, but it's just what Julie, Julia is on here.
34:28
So like here is that the? Clipboard Is this 19 fucking 50?
34:33
What this? Is what I used to have in my.
34:36
Office and I kept it. Yeah, it's called e-mail.
34:39
Like a boss and like so where if you want to say, where the heck
34:44
are we on this? You don't say just wanted to
34:47
check in. You say when can I expect an
34:49
update? Never say.
34:51
Just yeah, yes, this is what I got out of your Ted Talk.
34:54
Like, oh. That came from you.
34:56
That came from you, Julie, the don't say just thing.
34:58
I forgot about that. OK.
35:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. Just like.
35:02
Oh, you just said it. Oh, shut up, you did.
35:05
Like shut up. Just that.
35:09
It it is a filler word by the way.
35:12
I have lots of filler words anyway.
35:14
Or like you, you don't say like if you took a long time, you
35:17
know, I'm like sorry for the delay.
35:18
Like, thank you for your patience.
35:19
Thank you. Yep.
35:20
What are is this a CHEAT SHEET? What are?
35:22
What is on your clipboard? Show me again.
35:25
E-mail like a boss. It'd be easier to discuss in
35:30
person. Take a picture of that or send
35:33
it to me. We'll put it up on the screen so
35:35
people can read it. Yeah.
35:37
Oh, it's from ADHDDD Duck. It's a lot of fat D's.
35:45
That's that's anyway, but this is this is, I think really like
35:49
tips like that. And so whatever you just wrote
35:51
down Heather, as I was getting distracted by my ADHDD e-mail
35:56
like a boss clipboard. They're brilliant.
35:58
Like how many more like let's. I have a whole glossary I can
36:02
share with you guys emailing even, you know, picking up the
36:07
phone because how many times I've actually started saving
36:11
this month. I just started saving emails,
36:14
you know, like cold call people reaching out to me to sell
36:17
payroll and just following up, just checking in all the bad
36:24
examples of things. And there I have this initial
36:28
reaction of wanting to write them back and say this is the
36:30
most poorly written e-mail I've ever seen and here's how to do
36:34
it instead. But I don't want to take the
36:35
time so. You should have like a CHEAT
36:38
SHEET that we can all feed into ChatGPT and so we can sound a
36:41
lot more direct, you know, like. Yeah, that's what I always talk
36:45
about. It is a directness.
36:46
But the way I look at it is when we say, hey, I'm just following
36:50
up. Did you get a chance to review
36:53
what I sent you versus that's conditional, It's putting you in
36:59
this one down position of and giving that other person more
37:02
status. And what we want to do is create
37:05
this equal status in the conversation in the room.
37:09
So instead, if you are, yes, direct, but some people direct
37:13
has this bad connotation, which is wrong.
37:16
But what I say is to be more declarative and to say last time
37:21
we spoke, we talked about wanting to move forward by
37:26
Friday, today's Tuesday, Yes, today's Tuesday.
37:33
What do you need from me? So we hit that deadline.
37:37
It's declarative. Or you may even say before I can
37:41
move forward with XY and ZI need you to give me feedback on this.
37:45
If I don't hear from you, I assume it's good to go and it's
37:49
in both. Ways.
37:51
Oh, go ahead. Totally, totally.
37:53
But it is amazing when you hold that equal status.
37:57
You're not better than me. You're not more knowledgeable
38:00
than me. We each are bringing equal
38:04
expertise to the conversation. It's amazing the return rate on
38:09
that e-mail or Slack message or text or whatever it is that you
38:12
get. But if you put yourself in this
38:14
one down position and give them more power, they're not going to
38:18
respond. And it's not a threat.
38:21
Like if I don't hear from you, you know, screw you.
38:23
It's not that it's I'm assuming that it's all good unless I hear
38:28
otherwise. And so can you do that?
38:30
Is there a power dynamic there? Or are people who are reporting
38:33
up to a boss, do they still have that power to communicate in a
38:36
declarative fashion, request that clarity?
38:39
Does that go both ways? Yes, I I firmly given my
38:44
experience, know that it is and what I and the reason I say that
38:48
is because I hear from leaders who say don't be wishy washy
38:52
around me. Tell me what you need.
38:54
Tell me where I'm the roadblock right.
38:56
You just talked about it like I'm, I'm calling bankrupt on the
38:59
emails, which I love that I'm going to use that Blakely.
39:02
But as a leader, I have a client who's who recently became CEO.
39:07
So she's used to she's, you know, she's been rising up
39:10
through the ranks, but this is the first time she's in the
39:12
C-Suite. And she said to me, I don't want
39:16
to get in the weeds. Don't give me a 10 page report.
39:19
Give me that one page. Even better half page summary
39:22
and I said to her, your value is not knowing all the details.
39:26
Your value is being able to call upon the right people to get the
39:30
details you need to know just enough to be dangerous, which
39:34
we've all I've I've heard so many leaders say that, but when
39:38
the CEO, I gave her permission to, you know, you don't have to
39:44
know all the details. That's not a good value add.
39:46
When you go to the board and you start talking in that minutia,
39:50
they're going to question their hire.
39:52
You stay high level. Those leaders who practice I'm.
39:58
Sorry, it's just because it's I, I think that you could, I think
40:01
this is a learning opportunity for you see, we don't have to
40:04
have every single damn detail all the way down.
40:06
I mean, it's good to know some, but you, you guys, what?
40:09
Are we talking about my operations guide?
40:11
I haven't read it yet, it's really long.
40:14
Because. But I'm just.
40:16
Saying she wants the one page summary.
40:18
I think. OK, let me just.
40:20
Clarify. Let.
40:21
Me clarify that Heather is in charge of social media this week
40:26
for the first time. Yeah.
40:28
OK, So, Julie, I'm sorry for your show.
40:30
It's. I'm sorry.
40:31
It's going to be wrong. I wrote her a guide to show her
40:36
how to do it. I appreciate it.
40:39
And she won't read it. And it'll probably be the best
40:42
social media week. I will give you props, Heather,
40:45
your preps are the best because it is like here's like 3
40:49
bullets. Like let's just you know it.
40:51
They're they're very executive. I'm not that kind of executive.
40:55
I'm in the weeds. It's probably only why LED a
40:58
company only one time, not ten times.
41:00
All right, well, one of us is retired and so I I'm not saying
41:03
you're doing it wrong. So.
41:04
Something worked. Yeah, some something worked
41:07
there, Father. I to your question, though, I, I
41:09
first, my inclination was like, it's a little CYA if it's coming
41:15
from a subordinate, right? Because you're saying, hey, we
41:20
talked about this meeting, you gave me this, this assignment.
41:23
You were supposed to give me this input.
41:25
You were supposed to review my document.
41:26
You didn't, you gave me a deadline of Saturday.
41:29
I'm not going to hit it unless you get it to me by three.
41:31
And so it feels a little CYA if like a subordinate does it to a
41:35
leader. But then again, you know what it
41:37
also does? What did you we call that when
41:40
something gets buried in the inbox and so they bounce it up.
41:43
I don't there's like a term for it and that's also what it's
41:46
doing. It's like bouncing it up so.
41:48
Sorry real quick, sorry to interrupt.
41:51
What does CYA mean? Probably yes.
41:55
I love how you know what IP. Stands for He knows what it
41:59
means, he's just doing his job. Oh, you're right.
42:01
You're still your job. No, I actually did not know what
42:03
that meant. You never heard CYA cover?
42:07
Your I'm sure there's like songs about CYA like that.
42:10
Seems like very Eminem would sing that and M.
42:15
And M&M, but wouldn't like when you talk about CYA, yes the
42:24
subordinate is doing that for themselves, but also my sense is
42:30
a deliberate leader will see that as she's also covering
42:35
covering the leaders act. Yeah, that's right.
42:38
Right. And it's proactive, it's
42:41
proactive, it's proactive. But it also Blakely.
42:44
And I know sometimes in emails it's we can't read tone.
42:47
Yeah, it's a problem. But going back to where you're
42:51
talking about how Heather and I met, and I don't mean when she
42:55
bombarded me, when I walked in the door and still had my coat
42:57
on, but like kindness and tone. And so it's not pointing out
43:04
what you didn't do. But like, let's say I'm reaching
43:07
out to you, Blakely, and saying, hey, you know, you set this
43:10
deadline a Friday afternoon. This these are the pieces I'm
43:13
waiting on. What do you need from me?
43:16
Like it's more like approaching it with this perspective of I'm
43:21
supporting you, I want to make you look good.
43:23
Not, hey, you said you were going to do this, you didn't do
43:26
it. I'm out.
43:28
That's a totally different tone and conversation.
43:31
Good point. Good point.
43:33
You're right. The way that is worded, there's
43:34
a subtle distinction where I don't feel like, oh, I let her
43:38
down. Yeah.
43:38
It's more like, oh, yeah, we're in this, let's go.
43:40
Right? Yeah, yeah.
43:41
That's a good point, but I also say this, I was working with a
43:45
team a while ago and C-Suite and one of the individuals asked for
43:51
feedback in front of the 10 people from the CEO.
43:55
Yeah, never. Whatever.
43:58
I would do it. And she is the newest one on the
44:00
team. Send you right.
44:01
Back, you know, Yeah. And so the president said, I
44:05
need you to do to build more trust with this colleague.
44:11
And the response was. In front of the colleague.
44:14
And the response was, I can't believe you just outed me.
44:18
So the CEO said you just asked me.
44:21
And but her tone was very kind, was gentle, was I would love for
44:27
you and this other individual to build trust and to communicate
44:32
more often. But very like broad strokes and
44:36
all of a sudden then that individual is in this defense
44:40
mode, like her whole body language changed.
44:44
And. I wanted yeah.
44:46
And has. Anyone else?
44:48
Oh yeah, it was. And, and the CEO was like you,
44:51
you literally asked me and I told you.
44:57
And so that like I would like feedback that was a knee jerk
45:01
reaction to some other things that I think we're going on that
45:04
I won't share, but but I do have an opinion on but.
45:10
Can we hear it, please? We won't say the names or
45:12
anybody won't even know who you're talking.
45:14
About well, I think there's there's some insecurity there
45:20
and she wanted to feel heard. But as soon as that came out, my
45:28
sense was that she regretted it because she got what she wanted.
45:32
You can't get you can't ask for something and then get defensive
45:35
when you receive it. Yeah.
45:38
Do you recommend the 360? Reviews I do for me and I do
45:43
Yep, I do it a little bit differently out of from
45:48
experience of I used to do it confidentially, confidentially
45:52
and I would pick out the themes. You know, if I heard someone say
45:57
Heather needs to chill out when she's meeting new people, and I
46:05
heard that three times, I would share it.
46:07
OK. And what I realized was it was a
46:10
disconnect because I would give the feedback and people would
46:14
say that's helpful, but I don't know who said that.
46:16
So I don't know where I need to chill out or with whom.
46:20
Oh yeah. And I would, I would so trace
46:24
that down like cuz that would get in my head and I would be
46:26
like, wait, who did, who have I met in the last 6?
46:29
You know, and you, it would drive me a little bit crazy if I
46:31
didn't. Know right and you would focus
46:33
on The Who as opposed to the actual feedback that would be
46:36
helpful. Yes, exactly.
46:38
Cuz I would get defensive and I would be like, well wait a
46:40
minute, that can't be right or yeah.
46:43
Exactly. So I use a tool called Shift
46:45
Positive, and it's all based on positive psychology.
46:49
So when you focus on what someone does really well and
46:53
where else they can bring that strength, you are way more
46:58
likely to have to actually shift that behavior.
47:02
So I don't do it confidential, confidential.
47:05
So when I talk to the allies to get feedback, I let them know
47:09
ahead of time. I reiterate it when we speak.
47:12
This is not confidential. So if at any point you want to
47:16
say, OK, don't, don't capture this.
47:18
Let me think about how I phrase this.
47:21
We can always do that. And it is amazing how people
47:25
receive it. They, their guards may be up
47:27
when they first join. You know, their shoulders are up
47:29
here and they're like stealing themselves, but they they
47:33
aren't, they receive it and they're actually able to change
47:36
the behavior. Because it's delivered in a
47:39
positive way. It, but is it we spend a lot of
47:43
time focusing on that positive stuff and so the stuff that
47:47
needs working on that a that's objectives and my expectations,
47:51
right? It just kind of gets lost
47:53
because you're just promoting more and more of the good.
47:56
Is that what this is doing? Is it saying, hey, hey, Julie,
48:02
you are so good at conducting meetings, but what you're really
48:09
bad at is showing up to meetings on time.
48:12
But we're not going to say the you're not showing up to
48:14
meetings on time. We're just going to keep saying
48:16
like, you're so good at meetings that we just want you more in
48:19
that role. And we just don't try to correct
48:21
the other behavior. What's the new one?
48:24
Yeah, the nuance is that we focus on the strength you're
48:28
you're great at contributing. I love hearing your insight in
48:31
the meetings and not but, and I really need you to show up on
48:36
time because what happens like, and this is, this is a little
48:40
bit of the feedback side is you then describe the impact like
48:44
when you are late to meetings, I find myself repeating what we've
48:48
already discussed or we're waiting for you and then we only
48:51
have 20 minutes left to tackle the issue of the day.
48:56
OK, so we've got a format that where you need to share with
48:59
people. The format is.
49:01
You do this well. And yeah, I'll tell you what it
49:06
is. Oh, I have a yes, please.
49:07
Yeah, I have a, a framework. It's 5 1/2 steps.
49:11
And yes, I did say half. So the first, and this is built
49:14
on something that the Center for Creative Leadership developed
49:18
and I've built on it from my experience doing this for
49:21
decades is so first you state the situation, right?
49:25
You're, you're continually late for our Monday morning meeting.
49:29
Second step is to state the behavior, which is you're late,
49:33
right? So sometimes you can say that in
49:35
one sentence, but this state the situation.
49:37
So the situation might be at our Monday morning meetings, you're
49:40
constantly late. Then the third step is to state
49:44
the impact it has on you. Do not say we because then
49:49
they're mine goes to a place of oh, they've been talking about
49:53
me and they stop listening. That's good.
49:56
That's good. Right.
49:58
So the impact it has on me is, is I find myself having to
50:01
repeat what we've already discussed, then you make a
50:07
request. I would love for you or I need
50:13
you to show up to our Monday meetings on time.
50:18
Then this is where the half step comes in.
50:20
Pause. This would be hard for the two
50:22
of you. The three of you.
50:24
No Clay. I think you could do this.
50:25
Clay. I don't think you could.
50:27
Let's hear. What she has to say first.
50:30
I'd like to make a request. Stop talking, Heather.
50:32
Thank you, KISS. Ass kiss ass.
50:37
Exactly. So it's this pause and and
50:41
counting to six, which for you ladies, I think would be hard
50:46
for most of us. It's hard.
50:47
I'm not. I'm poking fun, but it's hard.
50:49
Yeah. Let it sink in.
50:51
Six. Let them 6 is a long.
50:53
That's a long time. Time, let it sink in, and then
50:57
the final step, Step 5 is to make an inquiry.
51:03
What's going on? Like are you feeling anxious
51:06
about the board meeting, let's just say, or what goes on Monday
51:10
mornings for you? Like, I actually did this with a
51:11
client and there was a Wednesday morning, 9:00 AM meeting for the
51:17
team, a stand up, you know, touch base kind of thing.
51:20
And this individual was late every single time.
51:23
Like not like 2 or 3 minutes, like 1520 minutes for a 30
51:26
minute meeting. And everyone was making, yeah,
51:29
everyone was making judgements and like, he can't get his act
51:32
together. And and then it comes out when,
51:35
you know, I coached the leader to give this feedback and start
51:38
the conversation that the individual was taking his
51:41
neighbor for radiation therapy. Oh yeah.
51:49
And didn't want a burden. He's a private person.
51:51
He didn't. It was no one's business in his
51:53
mind. And all of a sudden it was just
51:55
this easy conversation. OK, we really want you there.
51:59
We want your input. What would be a better time for
52:02
you? And they literally switched the
52:04
meeting till 10 AM. It wasn't a big deal.
52:06
Yeah. But when we make assumptions,
52:10
then, you know, as opposed to giving this person now, should
52:13
that individual have brought that forward and recognize like,
52:17
I'm always late for this meeting, here's what's going on.
52:19
Maybe, but it wasn't happening, right?
52:23
And at a certain point, we do get to the point of like, here
52:27
are certain things that you're doing that are getting in your
52:28
way. So it's not that we're not
52:30
acknowledging it, right, or we're not right, but we are
52:34
starting and priming the individual to be able to receive
52:38
the feedback. And then my conversation with
52:40
them is like, how do you take these strengths and bring them
52:44
over to these areas that you need to improve because we all
52:47
can improve, right. Yeah, like.
52:50
I wanted to ask Julie too. Oh, you go ahead, Blakely.
52:53
Well, I was just like looking over at my filing cabinet over
52:56
here because I have a performance review written by my
53:02
last boss that I never read because I kind of got it on the
53:07
way out the door. Get it?
53:09
Out right now I get get it out I want to read.
53:12
This on another episode and make it.
53:15
That you're right, you're running out of time.
53:17
I have never read it because, and here's why.
53:22
And it's something Julie implied and that is well, a it wasn't
53:27
going to be delivered positively, right?
53:30
And I need the feedback. I I get that, but positive and
53:35
safe, right? Like there is something about
53:38
creating a safe environment to even hear that and to receive
53:44
it. And so I was just like, fuck
53:45
that. He's never going to read that
53:47
language. It doesn't do any good for me.
53:50
No. Did Was there a lack of trust
53:52
there with that individual? OK, here's the thing.
53:56
Because that individual is probably a listener.
53:59
He's actually a very good friend of mine, but I had what's his
54:04
name? I'm just.
54:06
Kidding. I'm kidding.
54:07
I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
54:08
He's a dear friend and I love him, but I had I had started
54:12
moonlighting my company while I was working for him.
54:16
So, you know, there was just tense times and we're all tense.
54:23
And so I think I had some feedback that needed to come my
54:26
way, but I just quit. Yeah.
54:29
And it's hard reading the. Feedback.
54:31
Well, and you know what, he's like one of my closest friends.
54:34
I just didn't, I didn't want to read it.
54:35
And I don't know, I still want to read it so.
54:38
Well, Blakely, if it makes you feel any better and I would
54:41
watch this when I was in Business School, we had a public
54:45
speaking class. This is 22 years ago and we had
54:51
they recorded us on VHS tapes. I've never watched it.
54:57
Not Beta. I'm not that old.
54:59
Come. On.
55:01
But I've never watched it. So if you read your, your from
55:06
a. Professional episode, maybe it's
55:08
like a mini in between episode. Yeah, we're watching videotapes
55:13
and reading. But you have to.
55:15
You have to watch it and read it live.
55:19
Maybe I'll invite him on the show.
55:21
I love it. Yes, well, that is going to
55:25
happen to. Basically moderate and help.
55:29
Yes, I love it. All right, This was a really,
55:31
really, really fun episode, Julie.
55:34
I didn't even get to ask you a single one of my prepared
55:36
questions, and now we're out of time, which means you definitely
55:39
have to come back. I did.
55:42
I had. A question for you guys.
55:43
Yeah, shoot. Do we have a second?
55:46
Yeah, OK. What do you guys think about
55:51
women sharing that they are going through menopause at work?
55:57
I'm going through menopause and. You're at work, so.
56:02
OK, thanks for letting me know. Yeah, it's a great question and
56:08
I think it touches a little bit about what Molly was saying last
56:13
week about, you know, when you have a personal situation that
56:16
could be potentially affecting work performance.
56:18
Do you bring it up the? Work life mash up.
56:22
Yeah, I mean, I'm not. I'm not there yet, as Blakely
56:27
knows, and I love to remind her. Cuz that's real nice, Heather.
56:33
To. Come back to where we started.
56:35
Honestly, I probably was having the hot flashes and that's why I
56:39
have never. Had a hot flash.
56:40
Let's not be so stereotypical. I'm teasing you.
56:43
No, it's it, it is such a sensitive topic on all fronts.
56:48
If I, if I, if I'm the CEO, bring it on, I want to hear it
56:53
from you. I want to understand how it's
56:54
impacting. I want to understand if there's
56:56
anything that I can do to accommodate it or make your life
56:58
easier as you're going through this.
57:01
If I'm the employee, I don't want to be looked at.
57:06
When I was going through my divorce, I didn't tell a single
57:08
person that I was getting divorced until it was final
57:12
because I was the boss. And I didn't want to be in a
57:14
meeting and have somebody say, oh, she's just mad because she's
57:18
going through a divorce or she's just, you know, like that.
57:20
They would undermine what I had to say or my opinion because
57:24
they were assuming that it was the other thing in my life that
57:26
was going on that was impacting it.
57:28
So as the employee, I would feel intimidated or worried about
57:34
giving any information that might give someone else an
57:37
opinion about what I had to say. Or what about everyone like oh
57:41
she must be on that time of the month like I hate.
57:44
Everybody saying same thing, I just come on like, just yeah.
57:49
So I think that's a tricky question.
57:52
And I I probably need a couple episodes to get my thoughts
57:56
around it, to be honest, Julie. But yeah, menopause is something
58:00
different for everyone. There are so many symptoms.
58:05
And my kids at home are so tired of me going, oh, that's my
58:09
menopause brain. They're like, oh really, Mom?
58:12
Yeah. They're like, because before
58:14
menopause brain, you're like, oh, that's my COVID brain.
58:17
They're like, maybe that's just been your brain all along.
58:20
And I'm like Fairpoint, but yeah, I guess my point is
58:25
menopause A we should be able to say it like, who like cares?
58:30
I'm in menopause. Half of us are going to go
58:32
through it through right in the population.
58:34
Yeah, exactly. But.
58:36
There are so many different symptoms I would rather address.
58:40
What support do you need specifically versus having like,
58:45
it's that time of the month, it's that time of my life, it's
58:48
that time of this versus don't make me laugh too hard in a
58:53
meeting because I'll be in my pants, right?
58:55
You know, I don't know. I don't think you can say that,
58:57
but. You could say I'll talk about
58:59
pain on the pole. Yeah.
59:01
No, yeah. Honestly, Julie, I think it's a
59:04
whole other episode to be honest, because there's.
59:06
Just. It is it is it?
59:08
I think it's to SO. Many underlying issues that we
59:11
were facing totally. Yeah, totally.
59:13
But I asked because, well, you guys are experts and I have an
59:19
opinion. But I also want to hear.
59:21
I want to open my mind to other. Could you share your opinion
59:25
before you leave the show? I'm just curious because I think
59:28
you. Are next and I'm.
59:29
Is my guess. OK.
59:31
And I'm open to other perspectives, so I'm not
59:35
standing. There are a lot of things I
59:36
stand firmly in. This is not one of them.
59:39
I I would not share and I don't think women should share.
59:45
Because of that matter of yeah, this time of the month or those
59:49
like. And and to your point, you know,
59:52
at first like it could be mom brain, it could be COVID brain,
59:56
it could be menopause brain, right?
59:59
I don't want. Men have any brains like we have
1:00:01
pregnancy, mom, COVID, menopause.
1:00:04
Did you? Just.
1:00:05
Say that men. Why don't, Why don't men have
1:00:07
any brains? Yeah, all right.
1:00:13
There's there's so much more here guys.
1:00:15
Thank you. Julie's coming back, everyone.
1:00:17
She's coming back. Julie's coming back.
1:00:20
Yeah. No, seriously, you were called a
1:00:23
powerhouse on MSN recently, one of the female powerhouses to
1:00:27
look out for. I think that is an
1:00:29
understatement. I'm just amazed by you and the
1:00:32
thousands and thousands of people where you have impacted,
1:00:36
the way they're leading and you do it from such a human
1:00:39
perspective. You're bringing it back to at
1:00:41
the end of the the day, you be present, you give respect to the
1:00:45
person in front of you, you be kind to each other, you give
1:00:50
feedback, but you do it in a way that can be heard.
1:00:53
That's with empathy. You listen to be understood.
1:00:57
And there's just so much that we have so far.
1:01:03
We have to come in that. And I think we need to raise the
1:01:05
bar of how we're treating each other in the workplace.
1:01:07
So thank you for reminding us of that this, I hope you will come
1:01:11
back. That's not that's not a fleeting
1:01:13
invite. We have so much more to learn
1:01:15
from you. But thank you for being here.
1:01:17
Before we let you go, we are going to answer the question
1:01:21
that we ask all of our guests. And we do answer it ourselves
1:01:23
each week, which is what brought a smile to your face this week
1:01:30
so you can think about it. Does Blakely Clay, do you guys
1:01:32
want to go first? Well, I have the world's
1:01:35
shittiest week and we're not going to talk about it.
1:01:38
So we are going to talk about my smile.
1:01:39
And that smile is about to happen in about 5 minutes
1:01:43
because one of my best friends is flying through the Denver
1:01:46
thunderstorms right now and about to land.
1:01:48
I'm going to pick her up and Girls Week begins.
1:01:52
Oh, that's nice. It's too bad you are still on
1:01:55
that two week diet though, huh? Where you can't?
1:01:59
Oh no, OK, remember she was on like the no.
1:02:02
Pause. She was on no caffeine, no wine.
1:02:06
Remember, she was coming. Back it's coming back but I
1:02:08
decided to wait till after my friend left.
1:02:11
Yeah, I, I. Figured, good thinking.
1:02:14
I hope so, Clay, do you have one?
1:02:16
It's football season and last week I mentioned that my smile
1:02:21
of the week was that my Detroit Lions took the field.
1:02:27
They lost pretty bad that week. This week they crushed like
1:02:33
52.51 points I think, which is very high.
1:02:38
It's when I like I can just be in my own world and just focus
1:02:42
on one thing and seeing them win made me really happy because it
1:02:46
was a tough loss the week before and this week really well.
1:02:50
I know so simple. It's like football.
1:02:53
Football made you happy. I will tell you this though that
1:02:56
like it is this team. It is unreal.
1:02:59
And if you are not a Detroit Lions fan like you need to be
1:03:04
like right now we are going. Through this short.
1:03:07
Window that comes for teams like ours where we have incredible
1:03:12
leadership, we have an incredible team, we have an
1:03:16
incredible story and walking, you know, out my front door and
1:03:21
just like going down to the corner store, going to the
1:03:25
coffee shop, whatever, it's all anyone is talking about and it
1:03:29
brings people together. And so you're just kind of like
1:03:32
you kind of assume the identity of like, it makes me really
1:03:36
proud that I'm a Detroit Lions fan.
1:03:38
And I don't have to explain it to everyone around me.
1:03:41
It's just like everyone is on the same page.
1:03:44
And it's, it's very, very sweet. So I, I'm going to probably
1:03:47
mention it every week. So just buckle up.
1:03:50
But it is a huge. I hope for the next 16 weeks I.
1:03:54
Exactly. I hope that.
1:03:54
You get to Jimmy. Fallon did his whole ode to
1:03:57
Detroit. Did you see that he was at the
1:03:59
show with Keenan? And so yeah, I'll piggyback on
1:04:02
that a little bit just to, I mean, I'm with there with you
1:04:04
100,000%. And also my fantasy Football
1:04:08
League reflects it as well because I have so many Detroit
1:04:12
Lions plays on there. Now I have moved up into fourth
1:04:15
place above Nick, which I'm very excited about.
1:04:18
And a little side note, my picking has held strong for
1:04:24
three years in a row. It my team is called Hot Boys
1:04:26
Only and I choose based on looks.
1:04:30
That's awesome. My team is is hot Yeah, every
1:04:35
one of them and then except for a couple.
1:04:37
But, you know, wouldn't it be funny if we saw her team and it
1:04:41
was like, no, it's. I I will text you.
1:04:43
I didn't know and it's. Because you know, you're they're
1:04:46
good looking, it makes them confident like OK, so wait, so
1:04:49
you're are you judging based. On their picture or you judging
1:04:53
based on their aura? Like what's the hotness scale
1:04:56
like where does it come in? Like what is hot?
1:04:58
It's their conventionally their picture.
1:05:01
It's as much as I can see off a profile.
1:05:04
Like headshot? Yes, it's when.
1:05:07
You're you're when you're doing the picks on fantasy.
1:05:09
Football and it picks up and it's counting down.
1:05:11
I'm scanning the page going, OK, who's the hottest 1?
1:05:13
Boom, I'm telling you, I'm in fourth place.
1:05:16
There's something. It's a system.
1:05:17
It's a system. I mean, it's one.
1:05:19
It's not perfect. But I don't know anything about
1:05:24
football other than Detroit Lions.
1:05:25
So it's all like that. So Heather did you?
1:05:27
That is. My sister just visited Colorado.
1:05:29
And saw Heather. Did you?
1:05:31
Talk about this because she has her fantasy football.
1:05:34
Thing is, she picks who has the best smile, like the biggest
1:05:37
smile, the happiest smile. That's her football.
1:05:40
I like that one. Travis Hunter.
1:05:43
He was like, he is the best Colorado boy.
1:05:46
He's your boy, Yeah. Smiling.
1:05:50
OK, I'm looking it up. He does all.
1:05:51
Right. My first one is Joe Burrow,
1:05:53
Jared. Goff, Puka Nakua, DJ Moore,
1:05:55
Ricky Purcell, John R Gibbs. You see what I'm saying?
1:05:58
Jameer Gibbs. Sorry.
1:05:59
No, I don't. No, I don't.
1:06:00
Thank you, Julie. Those are.
1:06:02
All Hey, that's a hot list. Those are a lot.
1:06:05
Of fat necks there. Hot is in the eye.
1:06:09
Of the beholder. It was a good list.
1:06:11
Yeah, just there you go. I think it's great.
1:06:15
Yeah. All right, Julie, bring us home.
1:06:16
What do you? Got OK, so OK I have I'm sorry
1:06:20
I. Realized.
1:06:21
Did we just? Yeah, that was your topic.
1:06:24
No, you haven't said your smile yet.
1:06:26
That was still off. I just smiled.
1:06:27
No, I did that. I that I got up in the rankings.
1:06:30
Oh. Hot boys, was your smile.
1:06:33
Well, no, I mean. I wouldn't say that, but it was.
1:06:35
It was that I'm Yeah, I'm doing well.
1:06:37
Not in the league. Restart Julie, bring us home.
1:06:41
What made? You smile.
1:06:42
OK, so I have one but I have to tag.
1:06:45
On to one other. I was flying home.
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We lived in Boston. My kids were born in Boston.
1:06:50
I was born in New York. I'm not a New Yorker.
1:06:53
That's a whole nother conversation.
1:06:56
I was flying home on Sunday and I was getting texts from my son,
1:07:00
my mother, my cousin, that the Red Sox were sweeping the
1:07:05
Yankees. And that brings a huge smile to
1:07:07
my face. My mother is not sure if she's a
1:07:10
Red Sox or Yankees fan. She still calls herself a
1:07:12
Brooklyn Dodgers fan, but she loves Aaron Judge.
1:07:16
So that's that. I'm tagging on to Clay.
1:07:18
But what really brought me a smile this week is that for the
1:07:22
last two summers, including the summer, my college roommate and
1:07:26
my one of our really good friends from college have hiked
1:07:30
multiple days in Europe, like around an island.
1:07:33
And this year we were a bit little bit late in last two
1:07:37
years, a little bit late in planning.
1:07:39
And this year it's September and we've narrowed it down to Norway
1:07:43
or Slovenia. And I could go either way and be
1:07:46
Slovenia. Sylvania yes, that's what I'm
1:07:48
leaning towards. I'm a little.
1:07:50
Nervous. About the cold even in the
1:07:52
summertime in Norway, but just having that to look forward to.
1:07:56
And we've already planned we're going to hike Mont Blanc in
1:08:00
three years when we have a big birthday that's coming up.
1:08:05
Is it the menopause? Birthday sighting?
1:08:09
Is that a? Thing what's for me?
1:08:12
You're not supposed to ask about that.
1:08:16
All right, you're right. I hope likely I can't take you
1:08:18
anywhere, OK? Well, thank.
1:08:20
You, Julie. Thank you, Julie.
1:08:21
It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
1:08:23
So much fun. I'm so glad.
1:08:25
Bye.