Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / From Book to Business: How to Turn Your Book Into a Business Model | Lee Baucom

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From Book to Business: How to Turn Your Book Into a Business Model | Lee Baucom · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

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I'm dyslexic. And so ~ writing and reading are ~ labors for me
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I do it because that's the way you still find your people and create a message.
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The book creates funnels for the business.
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It brings them in, educates them in an approach,
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or eliminates them because they don't agree with me.
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You want to make sure you're doing everything that makes you look
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authentic because your competition is doing AI.
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You stand out by being real.
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The more we have systems in place to propel us forward,
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the more likely we are to succeed at whatever it is,
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and there's always a system to put into place.
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Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
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My name is Rick Meekins. I am your host today,
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and
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in our studio we have Dr. Lee Baucom.
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How are you today, sir?
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I am well. How are you?
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Doing absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for asking.
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And folks, glad that you are here to watch or listen to our episode.
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I would ask, if you haven't done it already,
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if you would like, subscribe, and hit the bell so that you can
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get updates every time we drop a new episode.
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Without further ado, let's get to it.
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So, Lee, give us a little background.
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Who are you? What are you doing?
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Why do why do you do what you do?
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Why are you here?
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What am I here for? And that's the
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that's always a question for ourselves.
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What are we doing here? so my background,
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my training was as a therapist and I turned around and switched that
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to coaching ~ for
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Mm-hmm.
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a number of reasons that are kind of irrelevant for what we're talking about.
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But in the midst of that I decided I needed to start writing about what
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I thought was important. My specialty was relationships and so
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I was discouraged with
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The results of of working with marriages.
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And so I decided to pursue what would work.
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And that became my first work,
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which went online in 1999, way back in last century.
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So long ago. Back in the 1900s.
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Back in the nineteen hundreds.
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And since then I've continued to write.
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And that writing became my the backbone of my business,
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not my business. It wasn't the writing that was my business,
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but the backbone of my business.
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And
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what I discovered along the way as I met other authors is there were
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a lot of people, a lot of authors who missed the fact that their book wasn't
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the business. And so many times I would be speaking with them and they were doing
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nothing with the book, waiting for it to sell.
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And and so that led me to start working with authors to figure out what
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was in the book, like what's what's the business that comes from that book.
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And so that's that's kind of what brought me to here to talk about
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the fact that books are important,
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but they're not the business.
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Huh, huh huh. Tell tell me about before we get into it,
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tell me about writing. What is what is it?
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Sounds like it's turned into a a bit of a passion for you.
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Am I am I getting that?
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I have a love-hate relationship with writing.
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Ha ha ha.
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It serves a purpose rather than necessarily being a passion.
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So I do like to work through my ideas and like to find ways
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of better expressing them, but I'm not the likely author.
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I'm dyslexic. And so writing and and reading are labors for me and so
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I do it because of what it does.
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I do it because that's the way you still find your people and create a message.
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So writing itself, the act of writing,
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no, but the fact of writing and what writing does for people,
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absolutely my passion. watching what comes from from people who take
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the time and the energy to write a book and and what that means
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for their transformation, but also what it could mean for
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the transformation of those around them.
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Mm, mm, mm. Okay. You you you used a phrase and I'm I'm probably gonna misstate it.
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You said the the the business of book or book of business.
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What what what do you what what does that mean?
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So let me tell you a story. It might explain it a little bit.
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Love a good story.
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Yeah,
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yeah. well and so for myself, I stumbled into a business.
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and I'll
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Mm.
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talk about that in a minute. But let me t tell you this story.
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So I I started helping my publisher put on events where the authors would come
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in and and we would help them one to
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point out their book to the world to to help them people,
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you know, we would give them cuts of of them presenting their book
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and and doing that. So that was our PR piece,
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but also train them on what to do with that book.
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Mm-hmm.
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And that was our intention. So I since I was helping with the the program,
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my author would always, I mean my publisher would always hand me a big stack
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of the books of everybody's gonna be there.
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So all these authors and I've got their books and
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I read some of them. I scanned all of them.
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I skimmed a good many of them.
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And and so I found myself sitting with an author whose book I thought
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had great potential, not as a bestseller,
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but great potential as a book to move him forward.
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And so I said, So let me ask you a question.
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He said, Sure. I said, What are you gonna do with your book?
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And I could I could tell the answer by the blank look.
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You know, he was looking at me going,
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What do you mean? I I wrote the book.
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And I said, Right, but
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what comes after the book? And he said,
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like another book? I'm like, no,
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I mean, what are you gonna do with that book?
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Like, what was the purpose? And he said,
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Well, I'm I'm hoping for it to sell and and for that to be kind of the the income.
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And I said, Okay. And my thinking in my mind is,
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you know, you you do what you want to do and that's up to you.
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So it was several nights later.
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We were closing out that event and we were all having dinner and
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I was sitting eating, it was barbecue.
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Eating some barbecue, and he comes over and he sits down beside me.
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He said, I've just got a question for you.
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What what were you asking me? And so I said,
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Well, let me tell you what I did and see if that spurs anything.
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And so on the spot, we back of the napkin drew out a business plan,
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which is what he's doing now. And
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Mm-hmm.
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this the book allowed him to create the business.
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The book creates funnels for the business.
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The book
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Mm-hmm.
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helps to clarify what that business would be.
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And embedded in his book was this really good framework,
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which is what I'm always looking for.
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Does the book hold a framework?
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Does it have this path for people to follow?
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Yeah. Yeah.
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And so that's kind of so to go back to me,
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I wrote a book because I felt like,
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you know, I've been bad mouthing while we're not getting anywhere with marriages.
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After a while, you you gotta say,
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well, this is what I really think.
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And I wrote that and decided while I was trying to think of what to do with it,
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I had somebody who said, Why don't you put it out as an ebook?
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And back in nineteen ninety nine,
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you know, what's an ebook? And so
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Mm.
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I said, What's an ebook? And and so we built a website.
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I built a website way back then and and he was saying it's just a PDF that
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you make available. So I sold my book there while I was waiting for a publisher.
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That book has never
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Mm-hmm.
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gone to a publisher because it created a business almost by accident.
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~
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Wow.
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it took me probably a year and a half to go,
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wait, this is the business. All
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Yeah.
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of the things that were coming my way,
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and that's the lost opportunity.
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I wish I'd been intentional from the beginning.
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so now I I like to help people be intentional from the beginning of what that book
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could be. How's that for a long answer for a short short question?
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I I I love that, but we we missed the part where you know you how did
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how did you how did you end up getting revenue from the book?
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What what were the things that you had to do?
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So the first thing I was doing was what this person did.
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I thought that just selling it,
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selling it online back then, which was a whole different ball game back then,
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would just be kind of a side income.
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I was still working in the office,
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seeing people in my office as a therapist slash coach.
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And so that was that was my day-to-day work.
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And there would just be a little side hustle.
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And then I remember the day. You remember when we'd have phones like
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on our desk that didn't fit in our pocket,
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you know, that you'd actually answer it would ring.
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With long with long cord,
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yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And and even then my phone was a VoIP phone.
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So it was still through the internet.
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but it was a phone and I picked it up off my desk and I answered it.
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And this person with a very strong UK accent was asking if I might be able
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to help because they had my book and had some questions and needed some some help
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with that.
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I thought, sure, let's figure out a way that you can pay me across this ocean
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and we'll work together. And so I once I figured that out,
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then every time somebody would call and say,
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Hey, can you help me with this?
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I could say, sure. And the more that happened,
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the more I was clear that part of what I was doing was creating
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a coaching service that was available around the world.
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That came from the book.
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And what I didn't do in the book was to say,
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and if you need more help, contact me or something like that.
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And that this wasn't part of it.
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So they were finding me by digging through stuff.
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And so the business kind of accidentally appeared.
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That
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Yeah.
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that business is still true today.
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I still work with people around the world to help with their relationships
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and I still work with with authors around the world to help their businesses from
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the book.
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Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. So so what I'm hearing is even from the even from
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the book concept, I mean, we we've got to be intentional,
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you know, not just about, you know,
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hey, this is this is my goal. I want to sell 10,000 books,
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but you know, you you have a topic that is,
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you know, pretty much universal,
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that covers a problem that is,
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you know, pretty much universal.
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I mean, how how do you coach your how do you coach your authors?
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So it doesn't have to be the audience I have.
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and and I would I would just point out that anybody out there starts with
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an audience of zero well, maybe two,
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like a close friend and a parent or something,
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right? But you basically have zero of of a of a population around you.
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And the question is how many do you need?
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So for me, sure, there are lots of troubled relationships around the world that need
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help. For others though, they only need a slim group.
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So
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Tell you about a guy that I worked with.
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he he he has a very narrow field.
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Like there are only he works with companies,
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consults with companies, and there are only a certain number of those companies that
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he could even help with what he does.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so he was telling me about how he's got this one other competitor,
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and and they're always
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Talking to the same people. And there are a couple of others who keep trying
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to get in, but basically him and this other person end up being the last two.
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And so he and I talked about his approach.
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And so he was in the final negotiations with this CEO who clearly wanted
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to make this a you better beg me for your job situation.
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And so
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Mm-hmm.
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the guy said, So, you know, there's you and this other guy,
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you're you two are in the running.
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Why should I choose you? What would make a difference?
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My guy
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Opens his bag, pulls out his books,
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set his on his desk and said, Because I wrote the book on this,
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and if you're interested, give me a call.
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Leverage.
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That
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got him the contract because he wrote the book on it.
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And and so one of the things I often point to people,
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out to people is that part of what you're trying to do is build authority.
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You need to be seen as an authority.
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Mm. Mm.
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And I would just note
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that the first six letters of authority is author.
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Wow, okay. You get you get to own that.
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I love that.
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Ha ha ha ha.
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Okay. I mean, did but did he go into into the book writing process with this
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particular conversation in mind?
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I and I've had I've had, you know,
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I mean, just you said I've had conversations with authors that did do that.
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It's like, hey, I need to be able to put my book out there because
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I have competitors, but I mean
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Was that his thinking or is that like his thinking as a result of working with you?
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Or how does that work how did that work?
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so yes, he thought that he ought to write the book because he knew that that would
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help him with authority. He didn't know how to use it.
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And he and I talked about what that does that look like because what he said,
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you know, he was at this process where he's writing the book and and really
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got into something I see often with authors of going,
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you know, is this really worth it?
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Is what I'm working on so hard,
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is it really worth it? And so he says to me,
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you know, it's not gonna sell.
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I mean, that there's just not that many people who are gonna buy my book.
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So is it really worth doing it?
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And I asked how many people would need to buy his book and buy his services
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to make it worthwhile. And it wasn't a lot.
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And so I said, So are you gonna be on the New York Times list?
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No. Does that matter? Because it gives you a way of approaching people.
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And so it was both. Now, here's the thing that I've noticed working with authors.
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If you take the time to write a book,
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and this is not
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a) I'll let AI write my book for me because that ain't gonna get you anywhere.
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it is not b), let me just slap together a list of things and put it out there
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as a book. This is people who are thoughtful about their book,
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enough thought that somebody picks it up and goes,
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Wow, this speaks to me. That's that's what we're trying to get to.
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This speaks to me. And if they take the time to do that,
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Yeah.
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they will be a completely different person.
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when they finished the book than when they started,
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because they will have thought through it differently.
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They would have walked through the process because what do we have to
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do as an author? We have to put ourselves in the in the seat of somebody
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who doesn't know this journey and tell them the journey.
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Like here's the path. And that process helps you clarify it in your own mind.
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So
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Mm-hmm.
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now you have a much more clear framework.
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Now I I've said framework a couple of times.
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So a framework is just how do we do something?
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Right.
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And
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the secondary problem to that is many authors have a framework,
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but they don't know they have a framework because
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Right.
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it's just how they do it. It's just kind of second nature to them.
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And so part of sometimes what I have to do is point out the framework.
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and my I don't know, my hidden super talent seems to be that.
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back when I was in grad school,
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I was always kind of curious. I would have somebody who contact me and said,
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Hey, name a professor.
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said to talk to you. I'm trying to get my dissertation or my thesis,
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depending on where they were, going,
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and I'm kind of stuck. And so they should said I should talk to you.
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I'm like, okay, let's have some coffee and we'll talk about it.
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And so as they would talk me through,
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I would say, I think this is what you're talking about.
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And I could help them kind of see the the the big world of that.
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Like I I would look at it from this place and go,
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This is what that looks like. So
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That tends to be something that I I do pretty well.
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And so many times I've been interviewing somebody and I'll say,
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Well, it seems to me that this is what you're saying.
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And they'll go, Wow, I've never thought of it that way.
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And I'm like, You absolutely did.
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It's in your book. You just didn't know you put that.
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And sometimes that leads them to do a rewrite to make the the framework more clear.
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Mm.
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But we all have that framework.
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That's just how we go about our particular way of doing it.
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And and this is the point when somebody writes a book,
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when they
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when they have actually made a framework their framework.
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So we all start the process of learning from the teacher's framework.
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Right. We do it the way they do it.
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That's that's
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Right.
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a basic entry point. And then along the way we do it as they said to do
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it and then we do it as they said to do it with our little twist.
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And then our little twist is how we do that.
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And it could be very
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Mm-hmm.
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similar
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Mm-hmm.
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But it often has our own signature on it.
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It's our signature framework. And that's the
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Right.
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part that often builds the business.
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So so what you're what you're saying is that we're building the framework,
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people, those people in our audience that we're targeting,
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get that, they understand that and they say,
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Okay, this person wrote the book on this particular topic,
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this aligns with my thinking, I need to get in contact with this person
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to engage them. That makes sense.
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And so
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That makes
15:41
let me let me just kind of enlarge on what you just said because I think
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you had something embedded in there that that we need to in to bring out.
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Was that a framework? Did did you identify a framework in here?
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It's it's
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it's enlarging the framework that you just spoke,
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right? So
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Ha ha ha ha.
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here's the thing about a book.
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It does bring people in. It also puts people out.
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And that's one of the functions that you want from your book.
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if you read a book on how to be more productive,
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and it's just a general how to be more productive,
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you will have seen everything in there everywhere else,
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and you'll just go, yeah, blah,
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blah, right. But if somebody has a particular stance on that,
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and we can think of the books on productivity that have really stood out,
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~
16:25
Mm-hmm.
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Seven habits would be one
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Mm-hmm.
16:27
that just comes to mind, right?
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There was a frame a clear framework all the way through that book.
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Multiple frameworks, in fact. And so you could read that and you'd go,
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Well, I disagree with that. Great.
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Now you know that the Covey group is not your group,
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right?
16:42
Right.
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And somebody else, you read theirs and you go,
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that speaks to me. So one of the things I often use my work for,
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someone will come and say, Hey,
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I heard about you. I'd like to coach with you and relationship stuff.
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And I'll often say, have you read my book or used my program?
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And if they say no, that's my requirement.
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Because it will save us both frustration if they read it and they go,
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I don't agree with you. I don't,
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we don't need to have that conversation in coaching.
17:10
And it will get them up to speed much faster.
17:12
Right. So
17:12
Mm.
17:13
It brings them in, educates them in an approach,
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or eliminates them because they don't agree with me.
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And I'm
17:20
Mm-hmm.
17:20
fine with people not agreeing with me because then it helps me if if I'm
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not if I'm not finding people who don't agree with me,
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I really haven't said anything strong enough for somebody to dis disagree with.
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And that's a problem because now I'm
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Yeah.
17:34
I'm just too generic. So why me?
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They need to hear what I would do,
17:39
not why marriage help, but why me helping you?
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And so
17:43
Right.
17:43
the the book becomes a funnel in and a funnel out.
17:48
Right. That makes sense. That makes sense.
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How do you how do you how do you build the book so that it I'm gonna
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I'm gonna I'm gonna say you you talked about a journey earlier on.
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So how do how do we build the book so we get get the target audience through
18:04
it to the point where they're like,
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Hey, I need to take action.
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Hmm. So there are people who come to me from two different places.
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One is the book is done and we're not going to do a rewrite and we're dealing with
18:15
what's already there, and that's fine.
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And then there are those who are are asking that very question of,
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okay, how do I frame this so that I can build my business?
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and more often they come having stumbled on the fact that they should have done
18:27
something with their book, like they figured that all they would do
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is write the book and they were done.
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Then
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Mm-hmm.
18:31
we're gonna go, okay, so what comes out of that?
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But
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the same question is going to come either way.
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My question is always, so what is what is the the frame of the business
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you want to build? Like what matches your life?
18:45
Because we need to understand that first before we
18:48
Yeah.
18:49
try to enlist them. Because if if you build something that aims people
18:52
at something you don't want to be doing,
18:54
you know, that's a problem. So 99,
18:57
you know, we I've been doing this what,
18:59
three decades.
19:01
I'm still doing the same work.
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I add on some other pieces and have some other projects,
19:05
but I'm doing that because I created a business that fits for how I like
19:10
to do things. And so let me just kind of give you a cleanup example from somebody
19:16
who came to me. came to me, he had a book,
19:18
and and I said, So what's the business?
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And here's this is what I got from him.
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Well, I'm gonna do public speaking.
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And I went.
19:28
You don't sound real excited about your prospects here.
19:32
What's up with that? Because you gotta have a little more energy for whatever it is.
19:36
And he said, Well, this is the thing.
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And he had a friend. And his friend was is a very well-known public speaker.
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And his friend
19:44
Mm-hmm.
19:44
got really excited when he was writing a book.
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He said, this is gonna make you a public speaker.
19:48
You're gonna have all these opportunities,
19:50
you're gonna travel the world and have a great time doing it.
19:52
Yeah.
19:53
And so my guy said, Okay, well,
19:55
I guess I'm gonna be a public speaker.
19:56
And he stumbles down this path.
19:58
And so I said, So you don't really sound excited.
20:01
He said, I don't like public speaking.
20:03
I can do it. I'm capable of it,
20:05
but I don't like it. That's that's not a good endorsement of being a public speaker,
20:10
by the way. I don't like to travel.
20:11
Right.
20:13
I like to be with my family. I like to hang out with my family in the evenings.
20:16
I don't like to travel. I'm like,
20:18
well, you just named two core parts of public speaking.
20:22
Traveling to it and doing it. And
20:24
Mm-hmm.
20:24
he said, Yeah, that's just that's what you do.
20:27
And I'm I'm like, No, it's not.
20:28
There are lots of other options of what you could do.
20:31
And this is the the thing that got him.
20:33
He said, I'm too far in this at this point.
20:35
I've already paid for the pamphlets,
20:38
I've already paid for a mailing list.
20:39
I'm like, you're too you're you're not far enough in that you should stay there.
20:42
You're too far in to comfortably leave unless you decide that is not what
20:46
you want to do. So as far
20:47
Mm.
20:47
as I know, in his garage is a stack of boxes.
20:51
Of unopened PR stuff for public speaking while he's doing what he actually likes
20:55
to do.
20:56
wow.
20:57
So the question is, what is it that someone would like to do that fits?
21:01
And this is the the weave that fits for the audience that they're speaking to.
21:06
And that can happen in a lot of different formats.
21:09
There are some things that just don't fit,
21:10
right? If this guy wants to be a trainer for corporations,
21:14
he's gonna have to travel some.
21:17
Unless he finds a way of doing it virtually,
21:19
right? There's always this these other unlesses.
21:22
But he liked doing the coaching consulting work and he just does it on Zoom,
21:27
one-on-one with C-level people.
21:30
And that fits for him. And because of what he says in the book,
21:34
he opens the door to that. So my question to people first is:
21:38
where is your audience and what do they need from you?
21:41
And two, what would you want to do?
21:42
How would you want to do that?
21:44
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How would you want to serve them?
21:46
Like in what format or what is what what are you asking?
21:49
Yes. What format? so there are some common ones.
21:52
You know, I speak to a lot of people who are doing consulting,
21:55
coaching, therapy, one on one or one on a few.
21:59
I have some that are doing trainings,
22:01
so larger groups. I have some people who are doing public speaking,
22:04
larger groups, some people who just do the training by like online courses,
22:09
so completely asynchronous, right?
22:12
So synchronous training, asynchronous training,
22:14
two options. do you do it in person or
22:18
you know, off online or whatever,
22:19
that's other options. What format does it take?
22:22
What what are you trying to do?
22:24
So there are some things though.
22:25
So just to bring another example that maybe I'm gonna bend this a little bit.
22:30
So I had a guy who wrote a book.
22:32
he's a real estate agent. And he wrote a book about how he does the real estate
22:37
and what what is his format? He helps people find a home,
22:41
not just a house.
22:43
And so he has a whole process that he takes them through of what would this mean?
22:46
What would this look like? How do they create that?
22:48
How does how do they find the ideal place for them to build their home?
22:52
Mm.
22:52
Meaning buy a home, buy build it,
22:53
whatever, but you know, find their home,
22:55
not just the house they're in.
22:57
Right.
22:58
And and so does that change him being a real estate agent?
23:02
Nope. But it sure changes how people interact with him because now he
23:06
is their home finder, not just a
23:08
Yeah.
23:09
house guy.
23:10
Yeah.
23:10
~
23:10
and so even how it changes the structuring of of the feel of that is important.
23:15
Y you know what's what's interesting is,
23:18
you know, we we we talked about the well we didn't really talk about
23:21
the process of writing the book,
23:22
but you know, we t we talked about the book going from a point of we've written
23:27
to a book to getting in the hands of hands of that target audience.
23:30
I mean, I talked to I talked to a lot of authors and
23:34
I'm curious, I mean, what what is the and perhaps it's dependent
23:38
on who they're going after, but what is how do you help them build
23:41
out that promotional component of of getting their book into their their audience's
23:46
hands?
23:47
It's a great question as a broad question.
23:49
one of the reasons it's broad is because there are so many ways that you could
23:52
get a book into book format these days,
23:55
right? and and that changes a lot.
23:57
so if you were say you had a book that looked like it was gonna be popular
24:02
and a traditional publisher picked it up,
24:04
it's gonna be but put in the bookstores.
24:06
You're still gonna be the person who's doing the interviews and doing
24:09
all of the publicity work, but they're gonna get it into
24:12
the bookstores because that's what they do.
24:14
Yeah.
24:15
but there are plenty of people who self-publish or use some other type
24:20
of publishing where they're going to be the ones who are not just doing that
24:23
publicity, but they're actually doing the whole thing.
24:25
And so there are people who set up funnels online.
24:29
And then how do you get people into your funnel?
24:31
Some people pay for ads, some people do social media,
24:35
constant posting or ever, but they
24:38
They have to figure out where their audience is going to be and how they best
24:41
get to them and then how do they deliver the material.
24:44
I know people who basically are giving away their book on a regular basis just
24:50
because they know the return on that book is so much.
24:53
So
24:53
Yeah.
24:54
that's a broad question, but it probably needs some clarification on what type
25:00
of book, who the audience is, and how they're intending on doing doing doing
25:04
the fulfillment.
25:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was I was thinking,
25:08
I guess, you know, from my perspective,
25:10
I've been in, you know, service,
25:11
you know, professional services businesses.
25:12
And, you know, so you have the company,
25:14
you know, up and running and you know,
25:16
you're doing your thing. you get to a point where it's like,
25:18
Hey, I wanna write a book because I want to,
25:20
you know, get it out there. I want to use it as part of my,
25:24
you know, my marketing program.
25:27
I'm coming to you. I mean, what is what does that whole process look like?
25:31
I th in you know, I mean just just to frame it,
25:33
you know, I I tend to think in terms of process or or strategies like,
25:37
okay, you know, this is the end zone and goal,
25:39
you know, how do we get from A A to Z?
25:42
Yeah, so I I talked about the fact that when you're writing,
25:45
you're putting yourself in the the reader's spot,
25:48
right? And
25:49
Yeah.
25:50
knowing who that that reader is is important.
25:53
when I am doing a training, podcast,
25:57
writing anything, I have a picture of who's in front of me.
26:00
I mean, I mean I don't have an actual picture,
26:02
but I have a picture in my mind of what that person is like,
26:05
right? I
26:06
I know what they're going through.
26:07
I know kind of where they are in life.
26:09
I know all of those things. And so that's my ideal client or avatar to use
26:13
the in a kind of the business advertising world.
26:16
But you have that in mind. And so I often am asking,
26:19
like, who do you want? And is it a wide range of people?
26:24
Is it a very specific group of people?
26:26
Who do you want to be reading this?
26:27
Mm-hmm.
26:28
And what do you want them to be getting from it?
26:31
Because
26:33
That's always the end result. If somebody's reading my work on relationships,
26:37
what am I trying to get them to?
26:38
A happy marriage. That's what I'm trying to get them to.
26:40
So I know that that's the end result.
26:43
And so now I can go, okay, let's reverse engineer.
26:46
Here's who they are. Here's where they are.
26:48
How do I help them move forward?
26:52
But it also has a secondary question where are they?
26:54
Like right now, where are they going
26:56
Yeah.
26:56
to be? That opens up the conversation of how I'm going to market it or create.
27:02
the ads, the funnel, the whatever.
27:04
and so the then the you know we now we've opened up a number of questions like
27:08
who is my ideal client or person or but reader?
27:12
where do I want them to be going?
27:14
Where are they now? How do I want to serve them?
27:16
Those are all questions when generally the person has just been thinking,
27:21
well, I have this thing I want to write.
27:23
I have this message I want to get out to the world.
27:25
Great.
27:26
But now we can make it more effective,
27:28
even in the writing process, by thinking about where they are,
27:31
what they're going through, where we want them to go.
27:33
And we're walking them down that that path.
27:35
I mean, if when people do an outline of a book,
27:38
I can look at it and go, There's not a path here.
27:41
So let's form the path. Or I can say,
27:44
I see the path. It's a very clear path.
27:47
And when somebody gets to the end of it,
27:49
the this the
27:50
I mean, I I guess it's not the saddest thing in the world,
27:52
but to me it's very sad for that work if they go,
27:55
wow, that was great. I need something else,
27:58
and there is nothing else. That's that's really
28:00
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
28:01
the heart of my question to a lot of authors.
28:03
What's next? Somebody reads that and I'm,
28:06
you know, that's the what happens next.
28:08
I was talking with somebody, this is kind of reminds me of that when
28:11
she wanted to be on on a podcast that I was doing.
28:14
And I said, Okay, so I just wanna be clear.
28:18
What happens after they're on you're on the podcast?
28:21
Like w someone listens to that,
28:23
what happens next? And she looked at me blankly and she said,
28:25
I think that would be it. And I went,
28:27
I I that would not be a good guess for me because you're not going
28:33
to solve this kind of problem in 20,
28:35
30, 40 minutes. You're going to open the door to somebody wanting to solve it.
28:39
And there's nowhere for them to go.
28:40
And I don't want to open the door unless you want to tell me where you're going.
28:44
And so that
28:46
had her go back and go, what am I trying to get to?
28:48
And so then when
28:49
Mm-hmm.
28:49
she came back, she said, This is what I'm doing now.
28:51
Like, great, let's go. Because now there's this the the the book gets somebody
28:56
to the place that they could step into something new and to not
28:59
Yeah.
28:59
have that is a loss for everyone.
29:03
Mm, mm, mm. That makes sense. That makes sense.
29:06
That makes sense. The world is much better.
29:08
So tell me, if someone wants to to start on this journey with you,
29:12
I mean, what's what's the best approach?
29:13
I mean, is this kind of a a soul searching sort of thing,
29:17
or is it or is this more of a hey,
29:20
I I've I've got a gap in my marketing or,
29:22
you know, someplace in between?
29:23
So as I said, I always like people to kind of read my stuff and and decide
29:27
if they want to work with me like on relationships,
29:29
but it's it's not so different with this.
29:31
I have a website, booktobusinessblueprint.com and that's T O like
29:36
to go to booktobusinessblueprint.com And I have some articles there
29:41
for people to kind of get an understanding of what I'm trying to get to there.
29:44
I even have a a process. So one of the things I noticed f with a lot
29:48
of people is when they
29:49
They decided they wanted to do something with their book.
29:52
They jump into these, become a six figure or seven figure author program.
29:57
And suddenly they have, you know,
29:59
45 things on their to-do list and they get zero done.
30:03
And so mine is one thing per week to do.
30:06
That's our my issue
30:06
~ okay.
30:07
process. That's a good starting point.
30:09
And for some people, that's all they need.
30:11
Like they get that and they just follow that and and everything falls in place.
30:15
If they need more, we offer.
30:16
some coaching on that or I offer the coaching on that.
30:19
but book to business blueprint dot com has a free process,
30:23
a map that people can begin to map out what would that look like.
30:28
So that's a great place to get started.
30:31
Cool, cool, cool. I want to go back to something you mentioned very early on.
30:34
You you talked about not using AI,
30:36
not writing a book with AI. I don't I don't I don't know the best way
30:39
to frame this because the question I wanna ask you is when writing,
30:45
when is it appropriate to use,
30:48
leverage, work with AI in the in the process,
30:52
if at all?
30:54
so I don't think there's any escaping AI anymore.
30:57
And in fact, the last few days has pointed out that we might want
31:00
to think about what we're gonna do to make sure that we have some control over that.
31:04
But AI is not the enemy. The problem is when people use AI not to help them write
31:11
the book or to re help do some research,
31:13
thing the thing things like that,
31:14
but to actually write the book.
31:16
Because AI is pulling everything from everywhere and making it into some generic,
31:21
unless you say, this is what I'm thinking,
31:24
help me with this, not do the the whole thing.
31:28
So what I discovered with AI is it was a great tool for doing some research.
31:34
It's it's a good tool for even helping me think through some complex issues that
31:39
are my issues and pointing out where I might have missed some things.
31:43
I went from having a very eager research assistant.
31:46
That's that's kind of what I I was talking to someone before.
31:49
I said, you know, it was always like you're this is great,
31:52
everything you do is great, and I didn't want that.
31:54
So I said, You've got to push back.
31:55
That's what I want my AI to do is push back in question.
31:57
And so now I have a cantankerous research assistant.
32:01
And so I'll bring something out and it just punches holes in it.
32:04
And I'm like, great, that's great for my thinking.
32:06
My thinking then goes back into the writing.
32:08
Now, AI is
32:11
unavoidable when people tell me they don't use it and then they tell
32:14
me how they were letting their word processing program you know help them with
32:19
the editing that's AI or they use Grammarly to help them with that
32:23
or some other program, that's AI.
32:25
So it's almost impossible to escape the effect of that.
32:29
When I criticize it, it's when it's written the book because you
32:33
can feel there's just not the energy there.
32:36
It's
32:38
There are two pieces. One is there's not the energy there,
32:40
but two, this is representing what you do.
32:44
And if AI is writing it, it is not representing what you do.
32:49
It's representing whatever it's surmised that is a good approach to this.
32:54
And so let's say you use an AI book and you walk in and somebody,
32:59
you know, decides to hire you and you're not doing it that way,
33:03
there's a mismatch.
33:05
That hasn't allowed the book to be actually what it could be.
33:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you do you have you have you cut well,
33:12
since you're the framework guy,
33:13
have you come up with a framework or or cadence that you can recommend like
33:18
to the audience like this is how you would use AI to write your book on,
33:23
I don't know, accounting, for example.
33:25
Is what what would you what would you recommend?
33:28
Yeah, so I I gave a little bit of of what I've done,
33:31
which is to make it a very cantankerous questioner.
33:34
And so I've added that as a basic prompt.
33:38
So when I have an idea, I often will s will give an idea.
33:41
This is what I'm thinking, and maybe it's an article,
33:43
and I'll go through all of my thinking about the article.
33:45
Tell me where it's inconsistent,
33:47
tell me where I've
33:47
Mm.
33:48
missed points, tell me where I could make this stronger.
33:51
And then it comes back with suggestions.
33:53
And some of those are like, well,
33:54
that is how I do it.
33:56
And others make me think through how would I approach that from my approach?
34:01
~ so
34:01
Mm.
34:02
it's a great constant feedback point,
34:05
but I'm still going to be the one who's it's my ideas,
34:08
my approach, my way of thinking about it that come out.
34:11
one of my suggest the suggestions was given to me by a mentor person
34:16
was in this age, You want to make sure you're doing everything that makes you look
34:21
authentic because your competition is doing AI.
34:24
You stand out by being real.
34:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely
34:29
at at
34:29
at least right now, you and I are real people talking.
34:33
I don't know what's gonna happen in a year,
34:35
but right now that's the proof that we you and I are having this conversation
34:39
because we're having it in front of people.
34:41
And so still I think most people can read something and go,
34:45
it's AI. and and more deeply than that,
34:47
if it doesn't represent how you do things,
34:50
that's problematic.
34:52
Yeah, yeah. I I find it interesting.
34:54
I I find at times I feel like at times,
34:57
you know, it takes me as long,
34:59
you know, to to use AI as a co writer or thought,
35:03
you know, you know, just for it helped me with my thoughts to work through,
35:08
you know, creating a document or something like that as almost as if almost
35:12
as long as it would take for me to write it by myself.
35:14
You
35:15
Mm-hmm.
35:15
know what I'm saying? But, you know,
35:17
to your point, you know, I find that
35:19
because it's questioning me or because it's saying dumb things and I'm like,
35:22
this is dumb. You know, we come up with better ideas.
35:24
You know, I f I feel at times it's I've been able to produce stronger work
35:29
as a result. You know, and I don't mind the time because I appreciate
35:33
the depth of the work. And, you know,
35:34
as you said, I mean it's it's definitely coming from me,
35:36
even though, you know, I use AI as kind of a a you know,
35:40
a thought partner, if you will.
35:42
Yeah. And that's a good use of it.
35:44
I I mean, clearly AI knows more information stuff than I do.
35:49
And so if I'm writing something and asking,
35:52
you know, does this go against any research or does it go against some finding,
35:56
There you go.
35:57
maybe
35:57
something I've even written before because my AI also knows what I wrote before.
36:01
Mm-hmm.
36:02
And sometimes it'll say, Well,
36:03
you said this here, and what about this?
36:05
And and get that gives me a good pause to go,
36:07
okay, let's make this consistent.
36:09
And how am I missing the consistency in that?
36:12
And sometimes it it can present me with the research that is different than what
36:16
I had guessed. And that sends me to clarify that.
36:21
and and so I I do think there is a great point for it to be kind
36:25
of your research assistant and your writing partner to have that conversation.
36:29
without letting it do the writing.
36:31
Got it. How does how does that compare when you're talking about the editing side
36:35
of of the processing?
36:37
so let me say that I often will get some edit help on an article that
36:43
I'm putting out. I would never get AI help on a book that I was writing.
36:48
And the difference between the two is the speed of what we're doing,
36:52
right? I'm
36:52
Mm-hmm.
36:53
dyslexic, so I it's helpful to have a proofreader looking over my shoulder
36:57
and with the clear knowledge that no ideas could be changed,
37:01
but give me some ideas on you know how I might edit this.
37:04
But a book
37:05
If I'm putting the effort into a book,
37:07
I want it to be eyes on by a human who's gonna have a conversation with
37:12
me about what style are we looking for and those kinds of things.
37:14
So I do use for articles a just for speed and efficiency.
37:19
AI is gonna do it. I'll put it on Substack and I've used AI to edit because that
37:24
gets it out there and it's still my ideas.
37:26
It's just had a an edit and a proofread.
37:29
That feels different to me than a book for the edit.
37:32
Yeah.
37:33
Yeah, I I would think the same thing.
37:35
I mean, I I certainly value the pushback,
37:37
you know, that someone, you know,
37:39
with you know, that understands me,
37:41
that knows me, you know, knows my intention,
37:43
et cetera, et cetera, could give me versus an AI,
37:46
my perception of of what an AI,
37:48
you know, would be able to do.
37:49
that makes sense. That makes sense.
37:52
Anything else you wanna offer to our audience,
37:55
just in terms of, you know, putting together a a book business?
37:59
Yeah, so the we've talked some about these different points that people come in.
38:03
there are plenty of people who go,
38:05
you know what, I think a book would further my business,
38:07
and that I am all for that. and the the the way you frame that is to ask,
38:13
how would it do that? Like what are you trying to create?
38:16
What's the purpose of the book?
38:18
And sometimes I think that it's we all
38:21
Can jump into the, well, I've got this to say without asking the secondary question,
38:25
why am I going to do that? Right.
38:27
So
38:27
Mm-hmm.
38:27
if you have a business and you want to write a book to further that,
38:31
what's the purpose of the book?
38:33
How's that going
38:33
Mm.
38:33
to be positioned? But if you've written a book and you've never thought there's
38:38
something behind it, I'm giving you the purpose of the book is
38:42
to build something further out.
38:43
and so I've had some people say,
38:45
Well, you know, I'm a fiction writer.
38:47
Well, I've had people who are fiction writers who have built a business after that
38:52
because they have proven something as a fiction writer.
38:55
They can tell a story, they can write,
38:57
they can stay on the process. And so even those pieces,
39:01
they s I have a couple of people who become,
39:03
you know, fiction coaches or character coaches or you know,
39:09
helping with the the narrative.
39:10
And so even there, there are often offshoots from that.
39:15
Most people though are the nonfiction writers who have a very clear frame
39:20
of who they're working with. And so
39:22
Mm-hmm.
39:22
the the real clarity is what do I want to build from here?
39:26
Like what do I want to be doing with this?
39:28
If if it's somebody who's just like get the message out,
39:31
that's fine. I just like my guy at that event.
39:34
If that's what he wanted, super,
39:35
go for it. But to look for the possibilities,
39:38
I think is always an important point for
39:41
for the audience, for the author and for the world at large to just have better
39:45
messages coming out there.
39:46
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Good stuff.
39:48
Good stuff. I do have one more question for you.
39:50
And it's a question I asked all my all my guests.
39:53
the name of the podcast obviously is the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
39:57
So winning is something that, you know,
39:59
we can all pretty much everybody can define for themselves.
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The challenge that we all run into at times is being able
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to maintain that relentless pursuit.
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I mean, you know, things happen,
40:08
you know.
40:09
So what would you recommend to our audience in order to encourage them
40:12
to maintain that relentless pursuit?
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This is probably not gonna shock you,
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but I'm a big systems guy. If you don't put systems in place,
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it ain't gonna happen. and and that's true in relationships,
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it's true in life, it's true in writing.
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the people who I hear and I've had conversations with people say,
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What did you do? What do you do?
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I'm like, I mean I you author and such,
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and they're like, I've always wanted to write a book.
40:34
Okay, what keeps you from doing it?
40:35
Well, I just don't have the time.
40:37
Well, I could point to author after author who wrote their book
40:40
in 15 minute segments, but they did it with intentionality.
40:43
Right. They
40:44
Mm-hmm.
40:44
they made sure that they were doing that.
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the ones that don't do it are the ones who are waiting for the inspiration to hit.
40:50
Mm.
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when I am actively writing, inspiration hits me from five o'clock
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in the morning until six o'clock in the morning.
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That's when I'm waiting for it with my fingers on the keyboard ready to go.
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I don't wait for some me suddenly to go,
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I think I want to go write because that it gets shuffled around.
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So having systems in place is what allows us to do that pursuit.
41:11
if you want to go to the gym, how do you set that up so it's gonna happen?
41:15
Yeah, I had a guy who's like, Yeah,
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I always I get up intending to do it,
41:18
but then you know, things get in the way.
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I'm like, okay, beside your bed,
41:21
you put on your shorts and your t-shirt and pull on your shoes.
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And now you're dressed for exercise,
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you might as well go. And so he did that for a week.
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He was like, Well, that works because now that's my routine.
41:32
Mm-hmm.
41:32
~
41:33
and he has somebody that's at the gym who's waiting for him at that same time
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and that's a system in place. So The more we have systems in place
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to propel us forward, the more likely we are to succeed at whatever it is,
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and there's always a system to put into place.
41:47
I like it. I like it. I'm a systems guy myself.
41:49
So you're speaking my language.
41:50
Ha ha ha.
41:53
Lee, it's been a fantastic conversation.
41:54
Thank you so much for being on the show.
41:56
Thanks for having me.
41:58
absolutely. Absolutely.
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And folks, thank you so much for watching and listening to another episode
42:02
of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
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We'll catch you next time.