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Transcript

How Micro-Influencers Can 10x Your eCommerce Growth · eCommerce Podcast

• 0:00
  Matt Edmundson: So welcome back to the
• 0:01
  e commerce podcast with me, your host,
• 0:03
  Matt Edmundson.
• 0:04
  This is a show all about helping
• 0:07
  you deliver eCommerce Wow.
• 0:10
  And to do that.
• 0:12
  I am chatting to the wonderful chap
• 0:15
  called Jay Neyer from Lantern Sol.
• 0:18
  We are going to be getting into what it
• 0:20
  looks like to grow your brand from six
• 0:23
  figures to seven figures to eight
• 0:25
  figures and beyond.
• 0:26
  From the man who has been there, done
• 0:28
  it, read the book, seen the film, got
• 0:29
  the t shirt and all of that good stuff.
• 0:32
  So grab your notebooks, grab your
• 0:33
  pens because you're going to want to get
• 0:34
  into all of this.
• 0:35
  But before we do.
• 0:38
  Let me just take a few moments
• 0:40
  just to say if you haven't done so
• 0:41
  already, make sure you go over to the
• 0:43
  website, sign up for the newsletter,
• 0:45
  ecommercepodcast.
• 0:46
  net, uh, and we'll be sending
• 0:48
  stuff out to you.
• 0:49
  It's all getting revamped at
• 0:50
  the moment, the newsletter.
• 0:51
  It's going to be so much better than
• 0:52
  it was and it was pretty cool before,
• 0:53
  but it's going to be so much better.
• 0:56
  Uh, so those changes at the time of
• 0:58
  recording probably were about two weeks
• 1:00
  off, I think, so.
• 1:01
  Let me tell you, that means by
• 1:02
  the time this has come out, it's
• 1:04
  been working for a little while.
• 1:05
  So go over to the website, e
• 1:06
  commerce podcast.
• 1:07
  net, sign up to the newsletter.
• 1:09
  We only send out one email a week.
• 1:10
  It's pretty cool, pretty tame, uh, and
• 1:12
  pretty insightful.
• 1:13
  Uh, and so yeah, go do that.
• 1:15
  Also come follow me on Instagram,
• 1:17
  not Instagram.
• 1:17
  What's the other one?
• 1:18
  LinkedIn.
• 1:18
  That's what I'm using a lot of,
• 1:20
  uh, come find me on LinkedIn.
• 1:22
  Would love to meet you there.
• 1:23
  Matt Edmundson, uh, come say, how's it?
• 1:25
  Uh, we get to meet a lot of e commerce's
• 1:27
  on LinkedIn.
• 1:28
  A lot of, a lot of listeners,
• 1:30
  which is great.
• 1:30
  And you tell me the stories and, uh, and
• 1:33
  I love to hear them.
• 1:34
  So yeah, do come do that.
• 1:35
  Anyway, enough about that.
• 1:36
  Let's talk about Jay, a modern
• 1:39
  Renaissance man.
• 1:40
  It says here in my notes, which I
• 1:42
  think is fantastic.
• 1:43
  A philosopher, a musician, a
• 1:45
  multilingual mastermind beyond
• 1:48
  his creative pursuits.
• 1:49
  He's a powerhouse in e commerce has
• 1:52
  generated over a hundred million
• 1:54
  in sales and developed over 500
• 1:57
  websites and apps.
• 1:59
  He's a featured speaker for Shopify
• 2:01
  and Amazon and Jay blends big
• 2:04
  picture thinking.
• 2:05
  With technical expertise to turn
• 2:07
  six figure brands into eight figure
• 2:09
  success stories, which coincidentally
• 2:13
  is why we have him on the show.
• 2:14
  Yes, it is.
• 2:15
  So, uh, Jay, welcome to the show, man.
• 2:17
  Uh, great to have you all the way from
• 2:19
  Cincinnati, which I believe is in Ohio.
• 2:22
  If my American geography serves me.
• 2:24
  Yeah, it's great to have you.
• 2:26
  Yeah, it's good to have you.
• 2:27
  It's good.
• 2:27
  Are you a Cincinnati Reds fan?
• 2:31
  That's what I know about Cincinnati.
• 2:32
  There's a baseball team.
• 2:33
  Jay Neyer: Yeah, for the sports
• 2:34
  scene, you know, we don't have a
• 2:35
  lot of accolades.
• 2:36
  Um, I also travel a fair amount.
• 2:38
  So, Cincinnati's home base, but I
• 2:41
  bounce around all over the world.
• 2:42
  Uh, fortunately, my work I can just
• 2:44
  do from a laptop.
• 2:45
  So, whether it be in Brazil, or Colombia,
• 2:48
  or somewhere in Europe, I'm, I'm
• 2:49
  most often not traveling, so I've
• 2:52
  lost track of their games and scheduling
• 2:54
  over the years.
• 2:55
  I, I frankly, uh, prefer to put my
• 2:58
  time and attention to other things
• 2:59
  outside of sports, but I, I root for
• 3:02
  them just for the sake of my friends
• 3:04
  and family wanting to be happy.
• 3:06
  Indirectly.
• 3:06
  You could say I'm a fan.
• 3:07
  Matt Edmundson: Indirectly.
• 3:08
  A fair play.
• 3:09
  I, I appreciate that.
• 3:10
  I, I remember when I was a kid,
• 3:12
  and I appreciate this is going
• 3:13
  back a long time.
• 3:14
  Uh, but when I was a kid, my dad,
• 3:17
  uh, traveled to the States with,
• 3:19
  for business for the first time.
• 3:20
  And it was a big deal.
• 3:21
  You know, this was sort of in the
• 3:22
  early eighties.
• 3:23
  This was a big deal when your dad
• 3:24
  sort of traveled to the States and
• 3:26
  he ended up going to Cincinnati and
• 3:28
  he bought me back this t shirt, the
• 3:30
  Cincinnati t shirt, which I think is
• 3:31
  still in my mum's attic, if I'm
• 3:32
  going to be honest.
• 3:34
  Uh, and he bought me back a Cincinnati
• 3:36
  Reds cap, um, and he said, you have
• 3:39
  to support the Cincinnati Reds
• 3:41
  baseball team.
• 3:41
  And I'm like, well, sure, why not?
• 3:43
  I don't know anything about
• 3:44
  baseball.
• 3:44
  We didn't have the internet back then.
• 3:46
  I was never going to see the game.
• 3:48
  Um, And then that's the last time I
• 3:50
  thought about it until I've just
• 3:51
  spoken to you now.
• 3:52
  So
• 3:52
  Jay Neyer: yeah, well fun fact for
• 3:53
  you, Cincinnati Reds, they were
• 3:55
  the very first professional
• 3:57
  baseball team in the U.
• 3:58
  S.
• 3:59
  Matt Edmundson: Ah, okay.
• 4:00
  Jay Neyer: Yeah.
• 4:00
  Well, there you
• 4:01
  Matt Edmundson: go.
• 4:01
  Jay Neyer: Some trivia, some useless
• 4:02
  trivia knowledge you'll never need,
• 4:04
  but now you know.
• 4:05
  Matt Edmundson: Well, you never
• 4:05
  know, it might come up in a pub quiz.
• 4:07
  Um, you know, those, those kind
• 4:08
  of questions come up all the time, don't
• 4:10
  they, in, in pub quizzes, which is,
• 4:11
  uh, it's wonderful to have it.
• 4:12
  I'll have forgotten it by
• 4:13
  the time we finish recording, though.
• 4:14
  But, uh, at least I know it now.
• 4:17
  Ha, ha, ha, ha.
• 4:19
  Well, listen, let's jump into
• 4:20
  it because I, I loving your bio.
• 4:22
  You know, you've done a lot of work.
• 4:24
  You've had your own e-commerce store,
• 4:25
  which you, you mentioned before
• 4:27
  we hit the record button, which
• 4:28
  you built, sold, and uh, and, and
• 4:30
  got out of there.
• 4:31
  You, you now help other companies with
• 4:34
  their own eCommerce stores and, and
• 4:36
  helped them scale.
• 4:37
  Uh, and so I'm intrigued 'cause
• 4:39
  your story is a little bit similar
• 4:41
  to mine in the sense we both
• 4:42
  built quite big online businesses
• 4:43
  and sold them.
• 4:45
  Uh, and so it's like, it's like
• 4:48
  looking into a mirror, uh, J is,
• 4:50
  is, is what it is.
• 4:51
  Um, and so I'm kind of curious
• 4:53
  about your story.
• 4:54
  How did you, how did you get
• 4:55
  into e commerce?
• 4:56
  Jay Neyer: Yeah.
• 4:57
  So in school, back in university, I
• 4:59
  was doing a double major in philosophy
• 5:01
  and accounting, and I figured if I just
• 5:04
  picked the two most opposite things,
• 5:05
  I'll find something in the middle.
• 5:08
  And, uh, it, it, it worked
• 5:10
  out pretty well.
• 5:11
  I, uh, I started doing accounting
• 5:14
  internships and I was just bored
• 5:16
  out of my mind.
• 5:17
  I was sitting behind a cubicle, just
• 5:19
  hating my life, hating my job,
• 5:22
  hating my outfit that I had to
• 5:24
  put on every day, really not liking
• 5:27
  where I was at.
• 5:28
  And I remember very vividly one
• 5:30
  day driving home after, um, there
• 5:33
  was like a pub crawl or something like
• 5:35
  that after work.
• 5:36
  And I just, I felt like I was
• 5:37
  just surrounded by the most.
• 5:39
  Uninspiring people you could imagine
• 5:41
  just having the most boring
• 5:42
  conversations.
• 5:43
  And I remember just crying on
• 5:45
  my way home.
• 5:46
  Like, how is this my life?
• 5:46
  Like, how did, how did this, how
• 5:48
  did this happen?
• 5:48
  Like, where did I, where
• 5:49
  did I go wrong?
• 5:50
  And so shortly after that, I decided
• 5:53
  I'm going to start reading about famous
• 5:55
  entrepreneurs, try to make something
• 5:56
  of my life.
• 5:57
  And it seemed like technology was
• 5:58
  a common theme.
• 5:59
  And so I figured I'm going to
• 6:01
  learn how to code.
• 6:02
  How do I do that?
• 6:03
  I'm going to start building a
• 6:04
  website and I'll start building
• 6:05
  it for myself.
• 6:06
  Uh, so I started off making a website,
• 6:08
  making a blog, just screwing around,
• 6:10
  really making a couple of websites
• 6:11
  and then sharing it, publishing it out.
• 6:14
  And then someone approached me and
• 6:15
  said, Hey, my family business needs
• 6:17
  a new website.
• 6:18
  Can you build it for us?
• 6:20
  We'll pay you a thousand bucks.
• 6:21
  And my eyes just lit up cause that
• 6:24
  was the first time someone had ever
• 6:25
  offered me money for something like that.
• 6:27
  And I just couldn't believe it, that
• 6:28
  people pay for this.
• 6:29
  And so that just sent me down this
• 6:31
  whole path of building websites.
• 6:34
  Later launched, uh, some e
• 6:36
  commerce brands.
• 6:37
  My first one was unsuccessful
• 6:39
  and had a lot of lessons from that.
• 6:41
  I can tap into, but the second one,
• 6:43
  uh, really took off after lots of years
• 6:45
  of perseverance and, um, we were
• 6:48
  fortunately able to grow that to
• 6:49
  eight figures.
• 6:50
  Matt Edmundson: That's great, man.
• 6:51
  That's great.
• 6:52
  I do feel like we connected somehow.
• 6:55
  I did accounting at uni, although
• 6:57
  I did accounting and law, so they
• 6:59
  were quite similar.
• 7:01
  I left university and thought, I
• 7:02
  never want to be an accountant, ever.
• 7:05
  But it's been quite useful
• 7:07
  knowledge to have.
• 7:08
  Jay Neyer: Absolutely.
• 7:09
  So
• 7:09
  Matt Edmundson: I'm super grateful
• 7:10
  for it, and I'm grateful for good
• 7:12
  accountants, I really am, but
• 7:13
  it was never going to be me.
• 7:14
  Right.
• 7:15
  I read the business books, got into
• 7:17
  entrepreneurship and the reason I
• 7:19
  got into e commerce was because somebody
• 7:21
  came to me and said, can you
• 7:22
  build me a website?
• 7:23
  I'm like, sure.
• 7:23
  And they said, do you know
• 7:24
  how to do it?
• 7:25
  I'm like, no, but how hard can it be?
• 7:28
  Right.
• 7:28
  And this was in 1998.
• 7:30
  So, uh, here we are, however many years,
• 7:33
  almost 30 years.
• 7:34
  Geez, is it really that long?
• 7:38
  And so I did fascinating,
• 7:40
  uh, absolutely fascinating.
• 7:42
  So you, you've, uh, you've built
• 7:44
  businesses.
• 7:45
  Some of.
• 7:46
  not worked, but one obviously
• 7:48
  clearly did work.
• 7:49
  Um, and you've, you've learned
• 7:50
  a lot from that.
• 7:51
  So let's jump straight into it.
• 7:52
  Cause I know, um, I know I'm fascinated
• 7:56
  by your insights and stories in this.
• 7:58
  So we've got a website.
• 8:01
  Um, in fact, I was talking to a couple
• 8:05
  today, their company turns over a half
• 8:08
  a million a year.
• 8:09
  Um, they, they, Um, sell
• 8:11
  products online.
• 8:12
  They got an econ business sells half
• 8:14
  a million on year.
• 8:14
  We're looking about do we do an
• 8:15
  equity partnership with them?
• 8:17
  Um, how do I grow that brand from
• 8:20
  its six figures up to eight
• 8:22
  figures and more?
• 8:23
  Let's jump straight into it.
• 8:24
  What's your first thing that we
• 8:25
  should think about?
• 8:26
  Jay Neyer: Yeah.
• 8:27
  First, I just like to look at the
• 8:28
  overall economics of the business.
• 8:30
  What type of industry is it in?
• 8:31
  Is it in a growing and
• 8:32
  expanding market?
• 8:33
  Is it in a contracting?
• 8:35
  Um, it's very different strategies
• 8:37
  when we have price points of items that
• 8:38
  are, uh, called like 600 to 1000 bucks
• 8:42
  versus it's more of a consumable product
• 8:44
  where it's maybe 20, but you're trying to
• 8:47
  just build out that that lifetime value.
• 8:50
  So one of the very first things I
• 8:52
  do is just look at the historical
• 8:53
  standing of it.
• 8:55
  Um, and just the total addressable
• 8:56
  market size.
• 8:57
  What does that look like?
• 8:59
  Uh, after that, what I would look at is
• 9:00
  how are its current revenue channels.
• 9:03
  So how's it getting new customers
• 9:04
  specifically?
• 9:05
  Is that coming from referral, SEO,
• 9:08
  paid ads, email?
• 9:10
  What is their customer retention
• 9:11
  look like?
• 9:12
  Um, and then really typically the main
• 9:15
  growth magnets are going to be
• 9:16
  the paid ads, SEO front, uh, working
• 9:19
  with influencers.
• 9:20
  We can dive into some of
• 9:21
  that in a bit.
• 9:22
  Um, but if those economics are
• 9:23
  positive, like I, what I often find
• 9:25
  is many business owners just don't
• 9:26
  know their numbers in terms of like,
• 9:28
  what is, what is the max we can acquire
• 9:30
  a customer against the AOB versus LTV.
• 9:33
  Um, and if they really know those
• 9:34
  numbers and it can help determine
• 9:36
  just how aggressive you want to get
• 9:37
  with scaling.
• 9:38
  Um, we have some accounts where they
• 9:40
  just have insane lifetime value from
• 9:42
  a single customer and, you know,
• 9:44
  we've been acquiring customers for say
• 9:46
  that lifetime value is 250 and we're
• 9:49
  acquiring customers for 18 and like, I'm
• 9:52
  telling you, like turn up the gas,
• 9:54
  put more fuel in people, just, you
• 9:56
  know, apprehension.
• 9:56
  So you'd be surprised, like, I
• 9:59
  think just, I, I'm kind of numb to.
• 10:01
  Uh, or I guess I just have less
• 10:03
  emotional investment because oftentimes
• 10:05
  this is like someone's precious
• 10:06
  baby that they're trying to care for.
• 10:08
  I'm like, Hey, I, I can't do anything
• 10:10
  to potentially put in a position
• 10:11
  of jeopardy.
• 10:12
  And I totally get that.
• 10:13
  But, um, the nice thing about my
• 10:15
  perspective has just been from just, you
• 10:17
  know, comes down to a spreadsheet at
• 10:19
  the end of the day.
• 10:20
  And if you know those numbers,
• 10:20
  you can turn those knobs dial it up
• 10:22
  and just get the whole machine, uh,
• 10:25
  producing more.
• 10:26
  Um, and then on the backend.
• 10:28
  So I'd say that's typically like
• 10:29
  more of the front end top, top.
• 10:30
  piece of the funnel of the
• 10:31
  growth engine, more middle funnel.
• 10:33
  I'd start looking in terms of like
• 10:35
  the, the website CRO, how's the
• 10:37
  conversion rate?
• 10:38
  Um, what is that, uh, bounce rates and
• 10:42
  things like that.
• 10:43
  Um, I would also be looking at their
• 10:45
  email performance.
• 10:46
  Generally, we look to have a benchmark
• 10:48
  of email doing 25 percent of total
• 10:50
  store revenue.
• 10:51
  Matt Edmundson: So
• 10:52
  Jay Neyer: in your case, if you
• 10:53
  guys are doing.
• 10:54
  Uh, half a million.
• 10:55
  I'd be looking to see that email is
• 10:56
  doing at least 25 percent of that.
• 10:59
  If it's not, chances are, it's probably
• 11:00
  under optimized.
• 11:02
  Um, and yeah, just going through that
• 11:04
  kind of complete audit and then
• 11:06
  figure out what are, what's, what,
• 11:08
  what pain points, where can we massage
• 11:10
  friction out of the system to probably
• 11:11
  get the most return on, um, time or
• 11:15
  capital invested.
• 11:16
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's
• 11:17
  a long list.
• 11:18
  I wish she's great.
• 11:19
  Um, thank you.
• 11:20
  I've been hearing, um,
• 11:24
  Uh, the, the fray, maybe it's just me,
• 11:27
  maybe I've just been out of the wrong,
• 11:29
  the right circles for a little while.
• 11:31
  But more recently I have heard people
• 11:33
  talk about Tam than I have, maybe in
• 11:38
  the last two months I've heard people
• 11:40
  talk about that more than I have in
• 11:43
  the last six years.
• 11:44
  I don't, I don't know if this is
• 11:45
  just me, uh, or whether this is
• 11:48
  something that has come out of it, but
• 11:49
  you mentioned that and I was kind of
• 11:50
  curious as to why.
• 11:52
  Jay Neyer: Uh, I find it
• 11:53
  very relevant specifically if I'm
• 11:55
  calculating like SEO or even paid
• 11:58
  ads for that matter.
• 11:59
  If like, I'm trying to just get a sense
• 12:00
  how much global search, so if I'm
• 12:02
  trying to capture.
• 12:03
  Whatever percent of a specific
• 12:05
  keyword or phrase that has a lot of
• 12:07
  purchase intent.
• 12:08
  I want to see how many people are
• 12:09
  looking for that.
• 12:10
  So like insurance in the U S is
• 12:12
  one of the most competitive keywords
• 12:14
  that's going to have way more
• 12:16
  competition than Cincinnati plumber,
• 12:18
  for example.
• 12:20
  And so just getting a sense of how many
• 12:21
  people are actually looking for the
• 12:23
  specific service or product is going to
• 12:24
  give you a sense of.
• 12:26
  How much ceiling is there for really
• 12:28
  scaling and growing?
• 12:30
  Um, and it's, it's more so also just
• 12:32
  see directional, uh, growth.
• 12:35
  So I look for growing industries
• 12:37
  or collapsing industries.
• 12:38
  So like, Hey, newspapers, physical
• 12:40
  print is probably not an industry I
• 12:42
  want to be investing a lot in right
• 12:43
  now, but maybe digital collectibles
• 12:46
  or other things where I see
• 12:47
  market expansion.
• 12:49
  It's really easy to just, you know,
• 12:51
  ride a wave that's carrying you forward
• 12:53
  versus trying to row a canoe upstream.
• 12:55
  Um, and, and that happens with
• 12:57
  business owners that we consult with.
• 12:58
  So, you know, we can quickly,
• 13:00
  easily identify, is this a growing or
• 13:02
  contracting market?
• 13:03
  And when it's growing, it just
• 13:04
  makes it a lot easier for us to
• 13:06
  do our jobs and position them well
• 13:08
  versus, Hey, we have a full team trying
• 13:10
  to paddle a canoe upstream for you.
• 13:12
  And we can probably make some
• 13:14
  distance and some performance, but at
• 13:16
  the end of the day, we're, we're still
• 13:18
  rowing upstream.
• 13:19
  And so there's only so far we
• 13:20
  can get with that.
• 13:21
  So I find that very helpful for just.
• 13:23
  Getting sense of direction
• 13:26
  Matt Edmundson: like it can be a
• 13:27
  simple case of I like what you said
• 13:29
  there, Jay, about just going to Google
• 13:31
  and typing stuff in and seeing what
• 13:33
  the search volume is on something
• 13:34
  to give you some sort of idea.
• 13:36
  I mean, obviously, you can research it
• 13:37
  further and get more accurate figures
• 13:39
  on the market size, but, um.
• 13:43
  It's a, it's a, it doesn't have
• 13:45
  to be massively complicated to
• 13:48
  give you some kind of insight,
• 13:49
  which I like
• 13:50
  Jay Neyer: to give you more specifics.
• 13:51
  We typically use like a trust
• 13:53
  keyword, get a mapping of how
• 13:56
  much search volume keyword difficulty
• 13:59
  also using the Google ad planner.
• 14:01
  So, I mean, honestly, just
• 14:02
  between both those tools, you can get
• 14:03
  enough information if you feed in like
• 14:05
  a good list of.
• 14:06
  of keywords or phrases that we
• 14:08
  want to, those tools will summarize very
• 14:10
  effectively for you.
• 14:11
  How much monthly searches, even
• 14:13
  if you're just doing that monthly
• 14:14
  searches and keyword difficulty, um, you
• 14:17
  can get a sense of like, where does
• 14:18
  it make sense to direct my attention
• 14:20
  and efforts.
• 14:21
  Matt Edmundson: And do you find yourself
• 14:23
  just predominantly looking at, say,
• 14:24
  keyword searches in the States?
• 14:26
  Um, or are you looking at all
• 14:29
  the countries that you're selling in or
• 14:30
  potentially selling in, I suppose?
• 14:32
  Jay Neyer: Yeah, we know we look across
• 14:33
  the board, majority of our clients
• 14:35
  are U. S. based, but we have plenty
• 14:37
  international.
• 14:38
  We have some, you know,
• 14:39
  throughout Europe.
• 14:40
  Uh, I'm also really into
• 14:41
  languages myself.
• 14:43
  So, uh, the volume from those is also
• 14:46
  pretty noteworthy.
• 14:47
  So Spanish speaking markets, even in the
• 14:48
  U. S. The Spanish speaking market is
• 14:51
  pretty significant.
• 14:51
  And I think Expected to be at least 50
• 14:54
  percent by 2050 or I'm not sure
• 14:57
  the exact year, but it's, uh,
• 14:58
  it's an important demographic as well.
• 15:00
  So, um, I would pay attention
• 15:02
  to both of them.
• 15:02
  Um, but it really just depends
• 15:04
  on where you can service
• 15:05
  your clients.
• 15:06
  And sometimes you might have logistics
• 15:07
  of like, Hey, we'd love to be able to
• 15:09
  fulfill to people in the EU, but we
• 15:12
  just don't have a warehouse there.
• 15:13
  And for us to fulfill a single
• 15:15
  unitary order, the economics of it just
• 15:17
  don't make sense.
• 15:17
  So, um, it can apply in both contexts.
• 15:21
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no,
• 15:21
  fair enough.
• 15:22
  And of course, if you don't have a
• 15:23
  warehouse in Europe, give us a ring.
• 15:24
  We've got one in the UK.
• 15:26
  Anyway, um, do you, switching back to
• 15:30
  what you mentioned a second ago about
• 15:32
  you love languages.
• 15:33
  It said here in your little research
• 15:36
  that you're a polygot, which I
• 15:37
  think is one of the best words around.
• 15:39
  I just think it's just such a
• 15:40
  great word, but you can, you can
• 15:42
  obviously speak multiple languages.
• 15:45
  How important is it for e
• 15:46
  commerce sites?
• 15:48
  So, for example, I'm a U. S. website,
• 15:51
  um, obviously there is a lot of Spanish
• 15:55
  speaking, and certainly in certain
• 15:56
  parts of the U. S., like I was in Miami
• 15:58
  a few, a few months ago, and actually I
• 16:01
  was, I was surprised because I've not
• 16:02
  been to Miami for a long time and
• 16:04
  I was surprised how little English
• 16:06
  was spoken and how much everything
• 16:08
  was Spanish.
• 16:08
  I don't know why, I just, it just
• 16:11
  was what it was.
• 16:12
  Um, how important is it then to
• 16:16
  think about or look at, say,
• 16:18
  multilingual sites?
• 16:19
  Would you do an English version and
• 16:21
  a Spanish version?
• 16:22
  Um, or do you just focus on English
• 16:24
  and think actually everybody can copy,
• 16:26
  paste and put it into ChatGPT for
• 16:27
  the translation?
• 16:29
  Jay Neyer: It definitely starts
• 16:29
  with English first.
• 16:30
  It will make a difference of like
• 16:31
  somewhere like Miami is probably gonna be
• 16:33
  more, that's going to be more of the
• 16:35
  case than somewhere like Minnesota,
• 16:37
  for example.
• 16:38
  Um, but in general it's like, Hey,
• 16:40
  why would we not want to have
• 16:42
  more keywords and potential volume?
• 16:44
  Like, is there anything that
• 16:45
  would impede this product from being
• 16:47
  sold to someone who speaks and
• 16:49
  feels more natively comfortable in a
• 16:51
  different language?
• 16:51
  Like very rarely is that the case.
• 16:53
  So, uh, it's always going to be a value
• 16:55
  add, I would say.
• 16:57
  Is it going to be the most value add
• 16:58
  compared to, uh, you know, your list
• 17:00
  of 10 or 20 other things you could
• 17:01
  be focusing on, you know, that could be
• 17:03
  subject for debate.
• 17:04
  Um, but I would say when in doubt,
• 17:05
  like it's, it's, it's definitely
• 17:07
  a value item in my experience and
• 17:09
  can potentially also just help
• 17:10
  unlock other different keywords
• 17:11
  or phrases that.
• 17:13
  Um, otherwise you wouldn't be able
• 17:14
  to optimize around.
• 17:16
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's an
• 17:17
  interesting, it's quite
• 17:18
  timely actually, because one of
• 17:19
  our companies, which does sell
• 17:21
  into continental Europe, um, we're
• 17:25
  to, we're now looking at getting,
• 17:29
  say, the labels of the product
• 17:30
  translated into French, possibly
• 17:32
  French, German.
• 17:34
  Um, And seeing if that has an
• 17:37
  impact on things.
• 17:38
  Uh, and so this whole language and
• 17:40
  translation and, um, understanding search
• 17:44
  terms in German are going to be very
• 17:45
  different to search terms in English.
• 17:47
  Uh, but understanding what
• 17:48
  they are is, uh, that's a skill
• 17:51
  in its own right.
• 17:52
  Right.
• 17:52
  I mean, you've got to have a good
• 17:55
  grasp of things going on there.
• 17:57
  So you've, you've sort of, you've,
• 18:00
  you've given your list, so you
• 18:01
  take an overview.
• 18:02
  You're looking at, you know, is
• 18:03
  this growing, is this expanding?
• 18:05
  So let's assume we're in an
• 18:07
  expanding industry.
• 18:08
  It's a growing market.
• 18:09
  The company, the company that I
• 18:11
  spoke to earlier, um, I won't mention
• 18:13
  their name or their industry because if
• 18:14
  they're listening, I've not got their
• 18:16
  permission to share their story.
• 18:17
  But, uh, you know, if I did, I would
• 18:19
  quietly say, um, They are in, I would
• 18:24
  say, a very fast growing market.
• 18:27
  Um, but it's quite a, I say fast
• 18:29
  growing market, I think it's
• 18:30
  more of a very established market.
• 18:32
  It's a very big, sort of,
• 18:33
  niche space.
• 18:35
  Um, they've stagnated for
• 18:37
  two years.
• 18:38
  They've not, sort of, grown,
• 18:40
  uh, in any way.
• 18:42
  Um, their profit isn't, they, so
• 18:44
  they focused more on profitability
• 18:45
  than new customer acquisition.
• 18:48
  Um, which I thought was an
• 18:49
  interesting choice.
• 18:51
  Uh, so that's sort of them.
• 18:54
  I don't know if you want to
• 18:54
  throw anything else in there.
• 18:56
  I appreciate the limited data.
• 18:59
  Jay Neyer: Uh, so like roughly what
• 19:01
  type of average order value
• 19:03
  would you say
• 19:04
  Matt Edmundson: about 30 U.
• 19:05
  S. Dollars.
• 19:06
  Jay Neyer: Okay.
• 19:06
  And is this a consumable or
• 19:08
  something you would have a repeat usage
• 19:10
  or what would that LTV look like?
• 19:11
  Matt Edmundson: Well, the in an
• 19:13
  interesting question because they
• 19:15
  didn't actually know what their
• 19:16
  lifetime value was.
• 19:17
  Um, of a customer.
• 19:18
  So going back to your earlier point
• 19:19
  of customers, not People not actually
• 19:22
  knowing their data, which I find
• 19:24
  intriguing because I'm like, well, this
• 19:25
  has got to be one of the first questions
• 19:27
  I'd like to know the answer to.
• 19:29
  So they're looking at that.
• 19:29
  Now I'm going to suggest their
• 19:31
  lifetime value is probably
• 19:32
  around 70 bucks.
• 19:33
  And I think they, um, they have about
• 19:39
  a 25 percent return customer rate.
• 19:43
  So 25 percent of the customers come
• 19:44
  back and buy for a second time.
• 19:46
  Jay Neyer: Okay.
• 19:47
  And then last question for the
• 19:48
  sales that they are getting, um, do you
• 19:51
  know, break down what channels are
• 19:52
  this coming from?
• 19:53
  Paid ads, search.
• 19:54
  95
• 19:55
  Matt Edmundson: percent is coming
• 19:56
  from paid meta ads.
• 19:59
  Jay Neyer: 95%.
• 20:00
  Okay.
• 20:00
  So not like Google that egg hasn't
• 20:02
  cracked yet.
• 20:03
  Matt Edmundson: No.
• 20:04
  Well, yeah.
• 20:04
  Jay Neyer: Step number one
• 20:06
  is definitely the LTV piece.
• 20:07
  And even if you want to, like, those are
• 20:09
  pretty different numbers between
• 20:10
  that 30 and 70.
• 20:13
  Um, like that just highlights some of
• 20:15
  the main differences between, um, Like
• 20:18
  looking at it from the LTV versus the
• 20:20
  AOV standpoint, because 30 is like,
• 20:24
  you're, you're going to have,
• 20:25
  you're going to have a tough time
• 20:26
  regardless, just because of that
• 20:28
  lower price point.
• 20:29
  So I will also look to see what we could
• 20:30
  do to raise that AOV to whether bundle
• 20:33
  more items, increase the perceived value,
• 20:37
  even if it's digital add ons or other
• 20:39
  guides or whatever things to just
• 20:41
  improve the overall value, because.
• 20:43
  CPMs, even for like really good
• 20:45
  accounts, I would say if we're a
• 20:47
  20 is a pretty good benchmark.
• 20:48
  So just the cost of advertising
• 20:50
  for a thousand impressions, like
• 20:52
  you're already going to be eating
• 20:54
  into that 30, um, acquisition
• 20:57
  pretty quickly.
• 20:57
  And so it's kind of like, I'm guessing
• 20:59
  probably why they haven't scaled
• 21:01
  is because they have the top out
• 21:03
  for the ad spend of what they're
• 21:04
  willing to go relatively capped.
• 21:07
  And honestly, based on those numbers,
• 21:10
  I would say it's probably higher
• 21:12
  at the 25 percent because if it's
• 21:14
  30 average order, and we call it 70,
• 21:17
  that means like 2.
• 21:18
  1, 2. 1 or 2.
• 21:21
  3, 2. 2 in that range, in terms of
• 21:23
  orders per customer.
• 21:26
  And I, I, they should ideally look
• 21:27
  at that on like a, uh, a 60 or 90 day
• 21:31
  interval, because sometimes where
• 21:32
  LTV can screw you off, it's like.
• 21:35
  It affects your cash flows a lot,
• 21:36
  which I learned from when I was
• 21:37
  previously having a business myself.
• 21:38
  So you're paying for tomorrow's inventory
• 21:41
  with funds today, um, and so you don't
• 21:43
  want to be like in a negative cash,
• 21:46
  cash cycle crunch.
• 21:47
  If you're building on that LTV, but
• 21:50
  that capital isn't coming in for
• 21:51
  another, you know, if it's, if it's
• 21:53
  six months or 12 months instead
• 21:54
  of that, and that can get a little
• 21:56
  bit more tougher to calculate.
• 21:57
  But.
• 21:58
  Um, I would say the retention
• 22:00
  seems really big.
• 22:01
  I would look to at least get 25,
• 22:03
  even pushing up to 30 percent
• 22:04
  on the email.
• 22:05
  So making sure that they're really
• 22:07
  retaining customers as best as they
• 22:08
  can, since it seems like it's an item
• 22:10
  that people come back and reproduce.
• 22:13
  Um, the meta dependency, what I
• 22:15
  would do, walk into meta in a second.
• 22:17
  What I would do outside of meta
• 22:19
  is look at SEO.
• 22:20
  If they haven't done any specific
• 22:21
  strategies, you'd be surprised at
• 22:23
  how well that still works.
• 22:25
  Um, and then Google ads as well, uh,
• 22:27
  very oftentimes.
• 22:29
  Without knowing the product, I would
• 22:30
  say like, I'd be surprised if they
• 22:32
  can't replicate some of those models
• 22:33
  over to Google.
• 22:35
  Um, but getting on the meta side,
• 22:36
  cause that seems like where it's
• 22:38
  ultimately working and I'm, I'm usually
• 22:40
  a fan of going deeper in areas
• 22:42
  versus trying to go wider, like
• 22:43
  before you've really built out
• 22:44
  a channel, I think for many businesses,
• 22:46
  it's like, Hey, we don't need to
• 22:47
  do more things.
• 22:48
  We just need to do the, the handful
• 22:50
  of things that we're doing just
• 22:51
  exceptionally better.
• 22:52
  And so of all the things I'd say,
• 22:54
  probably going deeper on meta
• 22:55
  would really help starting with those
• 22:57
  economics would be step number one.
• 22:59
  Um, what we've been doing for a
• 23:01
  lot of brands that we've been able to
• 23:02
  grow up to eight figures is, uh,
• 23:04
  doing whitelisting with influencers.
• 23:06
  So we're in this age of influencers now
• 23:09
  where people just have a much better
• 23:12
  relationship with an individual than
• 23:14
  like a corporation or a logo.
• 23:16
  And many of these businesses are
• 23:18
  just going to have frankly, zero
• 23:19
  brand recognition.
• 23:20
  So.
• 23:21
  Where we've had a lot of success
• 23:22
  is, um, running these ads through
• 23:24
  influencers accounts, and
• 23:26
  these can be micro influencers.
• 23:28
  We've had people with a thousand
• 23:29
  followers, 2000 followers, and
• 23:30
  have really great success.
• 23:32
  And we've had, you know, notable,
• 23:35
  famous people like Joe Rogan or
• 23:37
  Gronk, uh, having ads as well.
• 23:41
  And those are obviously like very
• 23:42
  different calibers in terms of level
• 23:44
  of influencer.
• 23:44
  But even on the smaller end, we
• 23:46
  continuously see that whenever brands
• 23:48
  do this, they have better results.
• 23:51
  And it's a win, win, win.
• 23:52
  It's a win for the brand
• 23:53
  because they're getting better
• 23:55
  acquisition costs.
• 23:56
  You know, their economics on the ad
• 23:57
  model makes sense for the influencer.
• 23:59
  It's a win for them because the.
• 24:01
  The brand is essentially paying
• 24:02
  to send traffic to their page.
• 24:03
  So like for one of the influencers
• 24:05
  I calculated, we had sent them over
• 24:07
  18 million, uh, impressions from a
• 24:10
  different accounts that they paid 0 on.
• 24:13
  So obviously you can imagine a lot
• 24:14
  of that converts into followers.
• 24:17
  And then hopefully it's a win for the
• 24:18
  consumer as well.
• 24:19
  Assuming you have a product that people
• 24:21
  want and need and, uh, ultimately,
• 24:23
  you know, you're, you're providing
• 24:24
  your service by getting it to them
• 24:26
  at a. Uh, and more economies of scale.
• 24:28
  So we'll oftentimes do more whitelisting
• 24:31
  at, um, on the ad creative side.
• 24:35
  And then on the landing page side,
• 24:37
  what we've been doing lately is
• 24:38
  having specific landing page
• 24:39
  funnels, uh, carry off of
• 24:42
  that influencer.
• 24:43
  So I'll give you an example of that.
• 24:45
  We had an account where we had all
• 24:47
  the ad creative specific, um, with
• 24:49
  an influencer, and then you
• 24:50
  come to that page and, Oh, it's
• 24:51
  the same person.
• 24:53
  So you just have a consistency of
• 24:55
  that buying funnel that's worked
• 24:56
  really well, um, for top of funnels.
• 24:59
  Also, I'd say like doing listicle type
• 25:02
  of content of having a landing page that,
• 25:05
  um, especially if you have an item
• 25:06
  that's less of a commodity and you
• 25:08
  need to do a lot more education on.
• 25:10
  Uh, I'll give you the example of
• 25:11
  like, maybe, maybe you're selling a
• 25:13
  sleep supplement.
• 25:14
  You want to help someone get
• 25:15
  better sleep.
• 25:16
  What we do is put together a guide.
• 25:18
  Here are the top five recommended
• 25:20
  neuroscience, uh, tips for getting
• 25:23
  better sleep.
• 25:24
  And maybe three or four of them
• 25:25
  will be like peer reviewed articles
• 25:28
  or things pointing back to doctors
• 25:29
  and medical advice.
• 25:30
  And then maybe we'll slip one item
• 25:31
  in that's about their product or
• 25:33
  service that's being offered.
• 25:35
  So it's, it's kind of going for
• 25:36
  a softer sale.
• 25:38
  Where you're not like pitching
• 25:39
  directly your product, but just
• 25:41
  educating on a subject or a pain
• 25:42
  point that they have, and then
• 25:44
  introducing your product as part
• 25:45
  of that solution.
• 25:46
  So we see that work really well
• 25:47
  for top of funnel.
• 25:48
  And then going down to the bottom
• 25:50
  of the funnel, it's honestly just
• 25:51
  like static images still work great.
• 25:53
  Like we, people often jump straight
• 25:55
  to video, but we see like images
• 25:57
  really work really well for that
• 25:59
  reconversion, just product shots, maybe
• 26:02
  testimony or feature feature a call out.
• 26:05
  And those, those still do wonders.
• 26:08
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah, they do.
• 26:09
  Uh, I, I can attest the images are still
• 26:11
  doing very well.
• 26:12
  Um, I'm, I'm curious again.
• 26:14
  I've got lots of notes here, Jay.
• 26:16
  So I, I'm going to pick on the,
• 26:18
  the first thing that stands out.
• 26:20
  So talk us through the, Influence,
• 26:24
  uh, thing a little bit more.
• 26:25
  So more and more people are talking
• 26:27
  about this.
• 26:27
  I was just on LinkedIn earlier,
• 26:29
  and Jordan Wester just posted.
• 26:32
  Jordan Wester, previous guest.
• 26:33
  I don't know if you know Jordan.
• 26:34
  Really interesting guy about
• 26:36
  social commerce.
• 26:37
  And he was, he was posting
• 26:39
  about influence marketing, as has
• 26:41
  Jordan's been.
• 26:42
  And he He was waxing lyrical about it and
• 26:47
  more and more people are, especially
• 26:48
  with the way social commerce is now
• 26:50
  starting to, it's seemingly starting
• 26:52
  to take off.
• 26:52
  Finally, we'll see what happens
• 26:54
  with tick tock, obviously, in
• 26:56
  America, but it seems to be sort
• 26:58
  of taken off at least a little bit.
• 27:02
  How do you go about finding
• 27:04
  and recruiting good influencers?
• 27:07
  Is this something you do as
• 27:09
  a in house?
• 27:10
  Is this something you get
• 27:11
  clients to do?
• 27:11
  Is this something that you get an
• 27:13
  agency to do?
• 27:14
  What's your, your tips there?
• 27:16
  Jay Neyer: It's a little
• 27:16
  blend of both.
• 27:17
  Um, there's platforms that
• 27:19
  we've utilized in the past too.
• 27:21
  Honestly, the best what we've seen,
• 27:23
  uh, either working directly ourselves
• 27:25
  or with clients that we work with
• 27:26
  is just get a VA and spreadsheets
• 27:29
  and just direct outreach.
• 27:31
  It's very much in the paint, like
• 27:33
  just getting into the weeds and
• 27:36
  sending out massive messages and trying
• 27:38
  to be targeted and engaged with it.
• 27:40
  That's frankly what we've seen work
• 27:41
  best compared to other platforms
• 27:43
  where you've paid to facilitate
• 27:45
  those marketplaces.
• 27:46
  TikTok and Instagram also
• 27:49
  have marketplace for creators.
• 27:50
  So I anticipate more tools coming around
• 27:54
  that specifically.
• 27:55
  Um, the model is still very
• 27:58
  nascent and I'd say continuously
• 28:00
  growing.
• 28:00
  And I think it's.
• 28:01
  Even though it's like, there's a lot
• 28:03
  already in that, I think we're just
• 28:04
  going to see more and more over the
• 28:06
  next five years of what I, I predict
• 28:09
  that to get even bigger, not less.
• 28:11
  Yeah.
• 28:11
  That's what, that's like one of the
• 28:12
  examples of, I was referring to
• 28:14
  of like, what are growing pools versus
• 28:17
  shrinking pools.
• 28:18
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
• 28:18
  Jay Neyer: Um, and so honestly,
• 28:21
  yeah, getting a, getting a VA and.
• 28:23
  Going through the DMS is, it's frankly
• 28:25
  where we see many brands get that.
• 28:27
  Um, but you also want to make
• 28:28
  sure you have a compelling offer.
• 28:29
  It can point to examples, keep it
• 28:31
  focused on them.
• 28:32
  So again, when we do that, we just
• 28:34
  show like, here's another influencer.
• 28:36
  Here's, here's Brian, for example.
• 28:39
  Here's the numbers of how many millions
• 28:40
  of people we've sent to his profile.
• 28:42
  Oh, yeah, I spent 0 on this.
• 28:44
  So we're giving you free marketing
• 28:46
  so you can have some assets to just
• 28:48
  make it a, a no brainer for them.
• 28:50
  Um, that I think will also, you know,
• 28:53
  you could send the exact same pitch,
• 28:54
  but then you make it more about them, you
• 28:56
  get significantly sign up rates versus
• 28:59
  before, like, Hey, we want to do this
• 29:01
  confusing thing that you don't
• 29:02
  fully understand, you know, like
• 29:03
  I found so much message of what you
• 29:05
  sent sent to the prospect in mind.
• 29:08
  So just keep it focused on
• 29:09
  them, how they're getting benefit,
• 29:11
  um, why it's a win, win, win.
• 29:14
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah, clarity,
• 29:15
  I think is super important, isn't it?
• 29:17
  So you mentioned that you're
• 29:18
  sending them.
• 29:19
  A lot of people to the influencer's
• 29:21
  social profile, if I've understood
• 29:23
  that correctly.
• 29:24
  Um, and so the influencer is also
• 29:27
  therefore benefiting in terms of growing
• 29:29
  their following.
• 29:30
  Um, and I'm curious, how do you drive
• 29:34
  people to there?
• 29:35
  So when you say that about an
• 29:38
  influencer, we're going to drive,
• 29:39
  you know, whatever people to you.
• 29:41
  Are you using paid ads to drive traffic
• 29:44
  to their channels?
• 29:45
  Jay Neyer: No.
• 29:46
  So, uh, how, how it looks in the
• 29:48
  back end is we link our ad account
• 29:50
  to their profile.
• 29:52
  So suppose you're the brand, you're
• 29:54
  still footing the entire bill for
• 29:55
  all the ad spend.
• 29:57
  They're just linking their profile
• 29:58
  to your account.
• 29:59
  And majority of the cases too,
• 30:01
  we're still sending them to the brand
• 30:03
  landing page or the brand website.
• 30:05
  Um, but this is coming up from their
• 30:07
  profile, so we're not, we're generally
• 30:10
  still doing conversion based
• 30:11
  campaigns that are the pixels incentive
• 30:14
  and goal is to capture an actual
• 30:16
  purchase versus like sending traffic
• 30:18
  to profile or something like that.
• 30:21
  Um, but they're getting the
• 30:22
  spillover from people who also
• 30:23
  just see them, see their content,
• 30:25
  uh, click on their page, you know,
• 30:27
  cause from that, from that ad, you
• 30:28
  can, who's, who's this guy who's.
• 30:31
  Talking about this product.
• 30:32
  What are they all about?
• 30:34
  Click on the page and go down their
• 30:36
  funnel that way.
• 30:37
  Um, so it's still typically conversion
• 30:39
  campaigns that we're running.
• 30:41
  Matt Edmundson: And do you find
• 30:41
  with influencers, it's, it's, um, a
• 30:43
  case of, you still need to set a fee
• 30:46
  or are people a lot more aware of.
• 30:48
  Uh, no, I want a percentage of sales.
• 30:50
  I, I, I, um, I, I think I'm going
• 30:52
  to send a lot of people to your site.
• 30:54
  So I, I want, you know, 10 percent
• 30:56
  or whatever.
• 30:56
  I don't know, whatever a
• 30:57
  good rate is.
• 30:57
  This
• 30:58
  Jay Neyer: is a good question.
• 30:58
  This is where we see a lot of variance.
• 31:00
  And so I'll give you an example.
• 31:01
  We have, we have one particular
• 31:03
  client who has, uh, very expensive
• 31:05
  products that are very heavy to ship.
• 31:07
  So it's not feasible for them to just be
• 31:09
  like slinging these things all around
• 31:11
  giving you a free product because
• 31:12
  you can either go free, you can
• 31:14
  go paid route for paid for posting
• 31:16
  or commission route of based on volume.
• 31:20
  And usually we, I mean, we've
• 31:21
  done all three depending on the
• 31:22
  size of the account.
• 31:24
  I would say we also try to
• 31:25
  leverage and get good social proof
• 31:27
  in the forms of product reviews and
• 31:29
  things like that.
• 31:30
  So anytime you can combine that with
• 31:32
  influencers, it's really helpful.
• 31:34
  Especially on the micro level, they're
• 31:36
  probably more likely to do that.
• 31:38
  And it's a lot easier for you to
• 31:39
  facilitate like an actual purchase on
• 31:41
  your website that can also lead back
• 31:43
  into, uh, a verified review, getting
• 31:46
  the testimony, getting the
• 31:47
  content from that.
• 31:49
  Um, but we also, you know, again, some
• 31:51
  of our partners have been able to work
• 31:53
  with influencers like Gronk or,
• 31:55
  uh, or Joe Rogan.
• 31:57
  And those have, you can imagine
• 31:59
  like some of these have, actually
• 32:01
  with Joe, it didn't have any cost.
• 32:02
  The product was just that good.
• 32:04
  Um, but for Gronk, there's definitely
• 32:06
  compensation payment affiliated
• 32:08
  with that.
• 32:08
  And so, uh, for smaller brands,
• 32:10
  again, even, even when we run the
• 32:12
  same content with whitelisting and
• 32:14
  just from the brand account, 95 percent
• 32:16
  of the time, we still see better
• 32:17
  performance with the whitelisting.
• 32:19
  Um, so even, even with individuals
• 32:22
  who have like a micro influencer of
• 32:24
  thousand, 2000, like we still see good
• 32:26
  results with it.
• 32:27
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
• 32:27
  That's really fascinating.
• 32:28
  Really fascinating.
• 32:29
  I am super curious about the influencer
• 32:32
  landing page.
• 32:33
  Um, just explain, I mean, you said
• 32:35
  obviously there's a photo of or an
• 32:37
  image of the, the influencer on the
• 32:38
  page, so there's that connection,
• 32:40
  uh, which comes, which comes through
• 32:42
  that, um, uh, dig into that for me
• 32:47
  a little bit more if you could.
• 32:48
  Jay Neyer: I'll just go off of the
• 32:49
  topic of sleep.
• 32:50
  You know, this isn't a client at
• 32:51
  all by any means.
• 32:52
  I'm just the first thing that popped
• 32:53
  in my head, but we'll run with it.
• 32:55
  So suppose I have a product that's for
• 32:56
  helping with sleep, and I found a list
• 32:58
  of, Um, 10 or so sleep experts on
• 33:01
  Instagram, people who talk about it
• 33:03
  on their channel.
• 33:04
  What I would do is approach them and
• 33:05
  say, Hey, I want to set up a win
• 33:07
  win win partnership with you, where
• 33:09
  we're going to be running this
• 33:10
  whitelisting content from your account.
• 33:12
  We'll build out landing pages.
• 33:14
  We're going to be paying for
• 33:14
  all this traffic.
• 33:15
  You're going to get free impressions
• 33:16
  for, you know, whatever the weekly.
• 33:19
  Podcast or show that he, that they
• 33:22
  do on their own individual, you're
• 33:23
  not going to get new eyeballs on that.
• 33:25
  So I'd approach them about that and then
• 33:27
  I'd say, okay, you know, assuming they
• 33:29
  give me the thumbs up, let's do this.
• 33:30
  What I would maybe then do is
• 33:31
  create a landing page specific
• 33:33
  around that.
• 33:34
  Uh, we'll just call him Dr.
• 33:35
  Jay.
• 33:36
  So Dr. Jay has a landing page
• 33:38
  where it's his image at the top.
• 33:40
  Here are five tips.
• 33:41
  Dr. Jay has for getting better
• 33:43
  sleep each night, and one of them
• 33:45
  might be, um, using, uh, Like turning
• 33:49
  off your screen at least an hour or
• 33:51
  two before night using low light or
• 33:54
  red light, ideally in the evenings,
• 33:57
  um, talking about caffeine, the latest
• 33:59
  that you can have at the end of the day,
• 34:01
  and then maybe item number four is this
• 34:03
  specific supplement that helps.
• 34:05
  Uh, get sleep.
• 34:06
  And then number five might be talking
• 34:07
  about having a cooler bedroom.
• 34:09
  And so like four of these items
• 34:11
  are just kind of tips or items.
• 34:13
  And then, Oh, one of these is also a
• 34:14
  product or a service that I'm offering
• 34:17
  that you could consume with that.
• 34:18
  And so that would be more top of
• 34:21
  funnel when we're trying to educate.
• 34:22
  And that's generally going to be more
• 34:23
  necessary for people who have zero
• 34:25
  exposure to you.
• 34:26
  It's going to be a much softer sale.
• 34:28
  And we're trying to make that look
• 34:29
  like more like a. An article or a blog
• 34:32
  publishing versus being like, this
• 34:34
  is very obviously a website of
• 34:35
  someone trying to sell me something.
• 34:37
  Um, so that's about that would
• 34:38
  look like a top funnel if you're
• 34:40
  more middle funnel.
• 34:41
  And I have some notoriety, a simpler
• 34:44
  form of that could just be more of
• 34:45
  like a collection or a product page.
• 34:48
  And the simplest form even is just
• 34:49
  having your hero banner with Dr. J or
• 34:52
  whatever influence in that image, just
• 34:54
  so you have some continuity and then
• 34:56
  you can also, it'll be a lot easier to
• 34:57
  get into that, some of that tracking.
• 34:59
  If you do have, uh, like commission,
• 35:01
  revenue share, things like that.
• 35:03
  See how traffic, how traffic is
• 35:05
  coming in from it.
• 35:08
  Matt Edmundson: Really smart.
• 35:09
  I like it.
• 35:09
  And you didn't know this, but I
• 35:11
  actually sell a sleep supplement.
• 35:12
  So I'm going to steal all
• 35:13
  your ideas.
• 35:14
  Thank you.
• 35:17
  Uh, it, it, it, it.
• 35:19
  It is, um, it is interesting, isn't
• 35:23
  it, how it's, it's not, I don't think e
• 35:26
  commerce is becoming more complex.
• 35:29
  I just think it's becoming more
• 35:30
  nuanced, isn't it?
• 35:31
  And you, you're now, years ago, you
• 35:34
  just go, there's a sleep supplement,
• 35:35
  just take it, what's wrong with you?
• 35:36
  And then you had to do the blog post
• 35:37
  and say, this is, you know, something
• 35:39
  interesting about sleep supplements.
• 35:41
  And then you have to do the
• 35:42
  YouTube video.
• 35:43
  And all of these things sort of
• 35:45
  happen and now we're getting
• 35:46
  influence to talk about it because
• 35:47
  like you say, um, building your own
• 35:49
  brand, that brand recognition is not
• 35:51
  as straightforward in a very crowded,
• 35:53
  noisy place.
• 35:53
  And so the influencers have got
• 35:55
  to do it for you.
• 35:56
  Um, so I don't think e commerce
• 35:58
  is becoming more complicated.
• 35:59
  I do think it's becoming more
• 36:01
  nuanced and learning these
• 36:03
  new strategies.
• 36:04
  I say new, but it's sort of old school
• 36:06
  thinking, but In a new way, isn't it?
• 36:08
  Seems to be having quite a big impact.
• 36:11
  Jay Neyer: Definitely.
• 36:12
  Back in the day, at least from
• 36:13
  my experience, as used to be,
• 36:16
  their targeting was way better.
• 36:17
  So you had some meta, you could
• 36:19
  just tell it exactly the type of
• 36:21
  person that you're trying to find.
• 36:22
  Uh, and it was really good at
• 36:23
  finding that person.
• 36:25
  We see the opposite today.
• 36:26
  So like, there's really only
• 36:27
  four levers.
• 36:29
  In the profitability equation, it's
• 36:31
  like it's CPMs.
• 36:32
  How expensive is it to advertise
• 36:34
  click through rate?
• 36:35
  Are people engaging in the content
• 36:37
  conversion rate?
• 36:37
  Are they making the purchase?
• 36:38
  And then all that.
• 36:40
  Multiply against the AOV, like how
• 36:41
  much are people ordering for?
• 36:44
  And today it's like, you actually want
• 36:46
  to do as broad.
• 36:47
  We see better performance just
• 36:48
  going very wide and broad because
• 36:50
  you're going to have lower CPMs versus
• 36:52
  otherwise, if you're trying to dial all
• 36:53
  these knobs and just try to get hyper
• 36:55
  specific, you just, you just end up.
• 36:57
  Cranking up your CPMs.
• 36:58
  And so it eats up tremendously
• 37:00
  into the equation.
• 37:01
  So those four numbers and data
• 37:04
  points haven't really changed.
• 37:06
  Like even back in the day, those
• 37:08
  were still the same numbers, but
• 37:09
  now we're seeing like, okay, where,
• 37:11
  where are those trends shifting?
• 37:13
  So we anticipate CPMs to kind of
• 37:16
  gradually increase more and more each
• 37:17
  year as advertising gets more expensive.
• 37:20
  How can we keep those CPMs lower,
• 37:22
  still get the impressions.
• 37:24
  Um, and still get the relevancy, but
• 37:27
  without jacking up the rest of
• 37:28
  the equation.
• 37:29
  Matt Edmundson: Yeah, but all
• 37:32
  excellent points Jay and I did Which
• 37:36
  gives me another two hours of
• 37:38
  conversation that I think we need to
• 37:39
  have really just digging into this
• 37:41
  a little bit more But I'm also aware
• 37:44
  of time and and so what I want to do
• 37:47
  Uh, before I get too carried away,
• 37:48
  I've started and I've remembered,
• 37:50
  uh, on this particular occasion.
• 37:52
  Uh, I've started, I say I've started,
• 37:54
  I've been asking guests now for
• 37:55
  a while for a question, which
• 37:56
  I go and answer on social media.
• 37:58
  I don't answer on the podcast.
• 37:59
  I go and answer on social media.
• 38:00
  If you want to know my answer to Jay's
• 38:02
  question, come find me on LinkedIn.
• 38:04
  Uh, that's where I'll be
• 38:05
  answering it.
• 38:05
  Uh, so Jay, what's your
• 38:08
  question for me?
• 38:10
  Jay Neyer: My question would
• 38:11
  be if you could leave one message
• 38:14
  on a billboard for the world to
• 38:16
  see, what would your message be?
• 38:19
  Matt Edmundson: Oh, that's such
• 38:21
  a good question.
• 38:23
  As you started talking, I was like,
• 38:25
  if you could just leave one message.
• 38:27
  And for some reason I went to the
• 38:28
  old school answer machine messages.
• 38:31
  Do you know what I mean?
• 38:32
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:34
  Uh, which I thought was, I thought, but
• 38:36
  I like the billboard one as well.
• 38:37
  So no, very good.
• 38:38
  If you want to know my answer to that
• 38:39
  question, like I say, come follow
• 38:40
  me on social media.
• 38:41
  Uh, but Jay, listen, I, uh, fascinating
• 38:44
  conversation, but, and, um,
• 38:46
  congratulations on all your success.
• 38:48
  Uh, it seems to be, um, Well earned.
• 38:51
  Uh, and I'm fascinating.
• 38:53
  And if people want to reach out to you,
• 38:56
  if they want to find out more about how
• 38:57
  maybe you can help them, maybe they've
• 38:59
  got a Shopify site.
• 39:01
  Maybe they're six figures.
• 39:02
  They want to go to eight figures and
• 39:04
  just need some good old conversations
• 39:06
  with you.
• 39:06
  Good looking self.
• 39:07
  How would they do that?
• 39:09
  Jay Neyer: Yeah.
• 39:09
  Uh, my website, lanternsol.com L A
• 39:12
  N T E R N S O L. You can also find me on
• 39:15
  most social media platforms, Twitter,
• 39:17
  LinkedIn, Instagram, Jay Neyer, J A Y
• 39:20
  and then N E Y E R. So just send
• 39:22
  me a message.
• 39:23
  Uh, come check out our website.
• 39:24
  Be more than happy to help.
• 39:26
  Matt Edmundson: Fantastic.
• 39:27
  We will, of course, link to all of
• 39:28
  those things in the show notes, which
• 39:30
  you can get along for free with the
• 39:31
  transcript on the website, e commerce
• 39:33
  podcast dot net.
• 39:34
  Or of course, you know this by now,
• 39:36
  if you're listening to this on a podcast
• 39:38
  player like Apple podcast or, um,
• 39:40
  Spotify to scroll down because the
• 39:42
  show notes, they show them these
• 39:43
  days, don't they?
• 39:44
  Uh, and so we will make sure all of
• 39:46
  those links are in the show notes,
• 39:48
  but Jay, listen, thanks for coming
• 39:50
  on the show, man.
• 39:50
  Really appreciate it.
• 39:51
  Great to meet you.
• 39:53
  Uh, and thanks for your work.
• 39:55
  Thanks for giving me a massive
• 39:56
  strategy around my sleep supplement.
• 39:58
  Thanks for having
• 39:58
  Jay Neyer: me.
• 39:59
  It was
• 39:59
  Matt Edmundson: awesome.
• 40:00
  Uh, it was great.
• 40:01
  Uh, what a great conversation again.
• 40:03
  Now let me do this huge round
• 40:04
  of applause.
• 40:04
  Yes.
• 40:07
  We like the cheesy sound desk.
• 40:09
  Oh yes, we do.
• 40:10
  Now be sure to follow the e
• 40:12
  commerce podcast wherever you get
• 40:13
  your podcast from because of course we
• 40:16
  have got some more great conversations
• 40:18
  lined up and I don't want you to miss.
• 40:20
  Any of them.
• 40:21
  And in case no one has told you
• 40:22
  yet today, let me be the first.
• 40:23
  You are awesome.
• 40:24
  Yes, you are created.
• 40:25
  Awesome.
• 40:26
  It's just a burden.
• 40:27
  You've got to bear.
• 40:27
  Jay's got to bear it.
• 40:28
  I've got to bear it.
• 40:30
  You've got to bear it as well.
• 40:31
  Now, the e commerce podcast is produced
• 40:33
  by pod junction.
• 40:35
  You can find our entire archive
• 40:36
  of episodes on your favorite
• 40:37
  podcast app.
• 40:39
  The theme music was brilliantly written
• 40:41
  by Josh Edmundson.
• 40:42
  And as I mentioned, the show notes,
• 40:44
  the transcript.
• 40:45
  The links, everything are
• 40:46
  on the website, ecommercepodcast.
• 40:48
  net, which where is the place you
• 40:50
  go to to instantly sign up to the
• 40:51
  newsletter, which I mentioned earlier.
• 40:53
  Uh, so go do that.
• 40:55
  But that's it for me.
• 40:56
  That's it from Jay.
• 40:57
  Thank you so much for joining us.
• 40:59
  Have a fantastic week wherever you
• 41:00
  are in the world.
• 41:01
  I'll see you next time.
• 41:02
  Bye for now.