Latest / Real Estate for Real Life / Episode 23 • How the #1 Mortgage Originator in America Built a $10 Billion Business with Shant Banosian, President of Rate

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Episode 23 • How the #1 Mortgage Originator in America Built a $10 Billion Business with Shant Banosian, President of Rate · Real Estate for Real Life

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On Real Estate for Real Life podcasts, we sit down with
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standout business leaders to unpack what's actually working.
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How they scale, lead teams, win clients and build businesses
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that last. We're your hosts.
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I'm Courtney Gauchman. And I'm Ryan Wilson, thanks for
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tuning in. Welcome.
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We are here with Sean Benosian, number one mortgage originator
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in the country. He has helped more than 40,000
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people get loans in more than $11 billion of loans originated.
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That's some enormous numbers you got.
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It's welcome to the show, Sean. Thanks for having me guys.
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I appreciate and you're. Now the president of Ray.
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Yes, this happened a couple years ago.
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It's been, it's been a good run. It's it's cool to kind of
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reflect on when you hear about that stuff.
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It makes you reflect on like, I don't feel like a rookie
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anymore. I feel like I've been doing this
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for a little bit. Right.
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Yeah, I know. President of massive company.
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Man, how's that going? It's going great.
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It you know, it's, it's been just about two years.
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You know, that wasn't initially part of the plan, you know, like
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it wasn't on my 10 year or twenty year vision board back in
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the day, but it just kind of happened.
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It was an amazing opportunity and it's something I'm super
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proud of. It's been a lot of fun.
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I've learned a lot, you know, like you think you know a lot of
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things when you're doing deals and building your own business.
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There's, it's a lot different, you know, running a, you know,
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50 or 60 person mortgage team versus running a 5 or 6000
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person company, right. So it's been amazingly
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fulfilling. It's been challenging.
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I've had to work harder than I've ever worked in my whole
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life, but it's I, I'm super proud of the company and what
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we've been able to build and I'm really looking forward to all
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the things we plan on accomplishing in the future.
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It's. Awesome.
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I mean, you go from being the top loan officer for a team in
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the whole country to now a second, I'd say full time job,
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being the president. Yeah, I get 2 at the same time.
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6000 person company that's that's huge.
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What I've appreciated the most, or maybe what I've learned the
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most is that, you know, I thought I was pretty busy before
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and now I'm definitely busier. But it's amazing, like what you
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can accomplish, like what you can make time for.
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One, if you want to and then two, if you just like really
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focus on being super efficient. So I look back on like the last
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like 1520 years. I'm like, I could have done so
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much more. There's so much more like that
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we could have done in in the time that I had that maybe, you
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know, I just didn't know how to be more efficient or didn't know
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like, you know, it's it's amazing once you get forced into
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a certain spot, like what you can actually pull off.
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Yeah. But it also seems like, you
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know, all those years of experience have gotten it to
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that point of being more well oiled where now your
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efficiencies are so second nature, right, when it comes to
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running that, you know, just number one team in the entire
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country. Yeah, Yeah.
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Yeah, it's you. Make it look easy.
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Yeah, it looks, I would say that it always looks easier no matter
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what you're doing. I think that's the world we live
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in, right? Like the whole Instagram
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culture, everything always looks good on the outside.
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They don't know how much of A hot mess it is behind the scenes
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to make it happen. They don't know that you've been
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grinding for 20. Yeah.
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For sure, I think that's the part that I find the most
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interesting about your entire career path and trajectory.
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Obviously you've had such an insane amount of success and we
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continue to watch you and we get to be like a couple times over
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from you, which is really exciting for us to just know
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you, see you and actually get to learn from you.
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But one of the things that I've always kind of wanted to dive
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deeper on, and I'm excited to be able to tap into this today is
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how you created this sixty person team that became such an
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incredibly successful machine where you've held the number one
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position for many years in a row.
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Then it's also allowed you that it does run so well.
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It's not like you're not running it too, but it runs incredibly
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well that you are able to now carve out time to be the
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president of this massive company too.
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So I'd love to hear a little bit more about kind of how that
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started where you you don't have to start from the very
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beginning. You know, I know you said you
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were going to go to law school and then you changed your plans.
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But I'd love to hear a little bit about kind of how you
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started to build that and when you knew you were going to make
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this a really big, huge team. So you.
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Shot Panozi and Esquire. He's got a nice.
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Ring to it. You know what one I would say
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thank you to you guys. You guys have been around for
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the journey for a very, very long time.
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Like I remember meeting with Ryan way back in the day.
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We were young pups, right? And and we had known each other
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too as well before you guys joined forces.
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And so, like, you know, you were building Wilson Group, I was
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building my team. And so the reason I've had
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success is not because of me, it's because of my team members.
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It's because of the relationship and partners that I have for
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real. So thank you guys.
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How it all happened, you know, Yeah, I'm so glad I did not go
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to law school. You know, I I graduated from
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Bentley and fell into this business probably like you guys
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fell into real estate. Like, I don't know, unless you
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grew up wanting to become a realtor.
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But you know, I, you know, I thought I was going to do all
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the things like, I don't, you know, I don't know if I wanted
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to. Like, I know there was part of
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me that like wanted to be on Wall Street, work with money,
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start my own business. But I was literally working my
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first job out of college. I quit because I hated it.
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I was a property manager at like a big property management
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company in Cambridge and I was miserable.
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And I thought that if I learned law, that would give me the
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inside track to kind of being in business.
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So like, even though I wanted to, I knew I wanted to learn
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law, but only as an edge to the business world.
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I went back honestly, and started studying for the Lsats
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and all that kind of stuff. And pretty quickly, I knew,
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like, in my gut, that I didn't want to be a student anymore.
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And like, I really just wanted to work.
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And so even though I got into law school, I put it on hold.
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And by chance, I ran into a buddy of mine that was at the
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gym of all places, that was in the mortgage world.
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And like real estate, it always was of interest to me.
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Finance is always of interest to me.
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I went to Bentley University, Bentley College at the time.
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So I was like finance economics is always something I was
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interested. And then sales is always
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something to like. I was never afraid to kind of
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bet on myself. And so I ended up in the taking
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an interview at the company was at getting in the mortgage
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business and fell in love with it was really, really successful
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almost immediately selling Internet based leads, right to
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like differentiate myself amongst the 12 different people
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they, they sold the leads to. But then 2008 happened and the
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entire mortgage world shot stopped and all the mortgage
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companies went out of business. And I had a decision to make was
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do I stay in mortgage or do I get out of mortgage?
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And I just liked what I was doing.
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And so I decided to bet on myself and actually went all in
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our mortgage. When the whole world was getting
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out of the mortgage business and I opened up my first mortgage
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company in Belmont, MA, I subleased from a another
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business that was actually failing in the real estate world
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at the time. And I was like, screw it, I'm
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going to go for it with all the money I had, pretty much.
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I was like, you know, I think I can last like a year or two and
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see if this happens. And, and, you know, it took off.
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You know, I was truly working seven days a week.
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I had no relationships, no clients, and I was 28 years old
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in a, in an industry that had lost complete trust, you know,
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like it was all about subprime mortgages and shady mortgage
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brokers and foreclosures and short sales.
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And I'm like this 28 year old person be like, Hey, trust me, I
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know nothing. And So what I did is I did it
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like the old fashioned way. I decided that, you know, I grew
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up in Watertown. I had, I, I was living in
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Belmont and I went to school in Waltham.
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So I was like, you know, I'm going to be the, I'm going to
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focus on becoming the mortgage person in that, those three
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towns. And so I did all the stuff.
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I was in VNI groups and Chamber of Commerce and Rotary Club and
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every single day I was like lunches, breakfast, coffees,
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dinners. Every broker open house I could
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go to, every open house I could go to, every industry event,
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like non real estate, just like business.
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Like I was just all about meeting as many people as I
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possibly could. And slowly but surely my phone
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started ringing like little by little.
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And that first year, you know, I worked 24 hours a day and I did
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like $9 million in loans, like, you know, which is not a lot,
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right? It's like literally less than
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$1,000,000 a month in deals. And you know, homes are
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expensive around here. So I was probably doing like one
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deal a month or two deals a month and and then next year
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doubled. And then, like the third year
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in, after working like crazy, I had done about $30 million,
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which is like a real business at that point.
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And I was like, holy cow, like, I think this is going to like
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happen. Like I didn't make truly any
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money the first two years. Like we just kept
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reinvestigating the business and like I hired my first person,
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you know, the third year in, I hired my first assistant, my
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first processor. And I just remember like
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wherever I was going, the phone was ringing and I was building
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real relationships. I was meeting people like you
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guys and others that were like, hey, I want somebody that's
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available, that's accessible, that even if he doesn't know the
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answers, the questions, we'll go out and get it.
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And I became I, I started finding little niches where I
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could add value to my partners and my clients.
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The condo market, you know, I was 2829, thirty years old.
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So my clients and, and their real estate agents that I was
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working with were about the same group.
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And so condos were really difficult back then.
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So I became like the biggest condo nerd you could possibly
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be. And like if anybody wanted to
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buy a condo and couldn't figure it out, I became that person.
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And so because of that, all of a sudden I started getting deals
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in Somerville and Cambridge and Southie, right.
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And like the market said, like we wanted to be in outside of my
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natural network that I'd built in Watertown, Waltham.
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And, and then next thing you know, that started spreading and
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literally like the business just really took off.
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And, and as I start doing more deals, I was like obsessed with,
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well, where, where is the opportunity behind every single
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deal? Where's the relationships?
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Every deal has a buyer's agent, a real estate listing agent, an
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attorney, an inspector. And I was like, I'm just going
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to become everybody's best friend.
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And so I built my whole business, whether it's real
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estate or mortgage or whatever, just based on collecting as many
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relationships as I possibly could.
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And I was just really focused on like, how can I provide as many
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people of as value as I possibly can?
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And I became what I realized it wasn't so much about how
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technically proficient I was at Mortgage.
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You know, it was more about like how good of a marketer and a
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brander I was in my business, right?
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And how when everybody thought mortgage, who did they think of?
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Do they think of me or do they think of somebody else?
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And so I just became obsessed with becoming that guy.
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And you know, it was a grind. It was really, really hard at
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the time, but I was actually really having fun and I was
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working so hard that I, I distracted myself from how hard
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and challenging it was. And you know what I was, I
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really didn't have a fall back plan.
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Like I didn't have another option that I was going to go do
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something else. Like failing wasn't really an
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option. So I just didn't allow myself to
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fail. So you said a lot of amazing
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things, right? I mean, obviously you picked an
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industry that's perfect for you because you saying that you
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became incredibly proficient though at the condo piece of it.
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That's the first thing I noticed when I had met you is you very
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easily explain mortgages and lending in a way that is so, I
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guess digestible for the consumer, right?
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And I think that that's so relatable, which is another
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reason why you've got these relationship skills, right, that
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not everybody has. Some people are really good with
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numbers and can talk about loans all day long, but they don't
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have those relationship skills. You kind of have that ability to
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be really good at both. From there though, the other
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piece that I really wonder is as you were starting to build and
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gain employees, right, as you mentioned your third year and
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you hire people, you have to now have leadership skills.
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How did you start to hone and grow those leadership skills to
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get to now 60 people on your team?
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Yeah, you know what, Great question.
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I would say probably one of the biggest mistakes I've made in my
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career was waiting too long to hire because I was incredibly
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scared right of 1 taking on the expensive employees and the
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responsibility of that, that was a huge concern of mine.
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So I probably waited a little bit too long to hire.
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But once you hire, you know, it's a big responsibility that
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like now one, you have to build your business because you have
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to pay everybody and, and they're trusting their
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livelihoods with you. Like that's a huge
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responsibility that it's not just as easy as like hire
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somebody. Like, you know, you have to make
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sure you can keep them employed, provide them value, right?
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Like that's and then how did I hone in my leadership skills?
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Yeah, you know, I'm like one of those people that like I will
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read and listen and, and get mentored and coached myself and
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surround myself with people that are doing what I want and learn
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from them. Right.
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And so I think, you know, I think I naturally kind of grew
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up as like a, you know, I think some people are just natural
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born leaders. Like I feel like I have a little
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bit of that in me, right, which I wanted to, the reason I built
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a team was because I've always kind of grew up playing team
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sports and I liked winning as a team, right?
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In fact, that's like our team motto.
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So I, I wanted, I didn't want to do this by myself and be an
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individual contributor. Like that to me wasn't like my
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vision of success. It was doing it with a large
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group of people. And I suppose now that's why I'm
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doing it with 5000 people, right?
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So that's fun for me. But you know, nobody just like
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nobody, the hardest part of growing a business is the people
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side of it, right? Like the transactions, mortgages
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are easy, like they're black and white.
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You can read guidelines and, and figure and figure out how to
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place a loan somewhere and explain it to somebody, their
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numbers, right? But managing people's very
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complex and all the stuff they have going on their lives and
13:18
getting people to understand a vision.
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You know, one of the things I've done is I've always focused on
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teaching myself so I can stay ahead and be a great leader.
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So I've invested in things like learning EOS, right?
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Like, which is I know something you guys are familiar with, but
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like the entrepreneur operating system, it's a whole system that
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I want to create in a framework to run my business.
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I've gone, I've done millions upon millions of seminars and
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courses. I invested for three years as a
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student of something called strategic coach, which is
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something for CEOs, visionaries, founders to be a better leader,
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right? So like I will always spend
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money on ways in which I can enrich kind of myself so I can
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be a better coach, leader, mentor for everybody else and
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create certain systems and processes.
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And then the last part is a, as a leader is you have to have a
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big vision that people believe in that they can follow and,
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and, and, and just be a really great communicator and, and
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frankly, more than anything else, a listener, right?
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So, but you know, so there's a, that's a really big question.
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We could probably just talk about that for the entire hour,
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but those are some of the things that I've done.
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OK, it sounds like learning and being a sponge and continuing to
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grow personally and professionally is what motivates
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you. Yeah.
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Is that kind of like what you do when you're feeling a little
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burnt out or when you're feeling like things are getting
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stressful? Do you kind of tend to jump into
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like learning mode and listen to a podcast or read a book or
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something? Always.
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Yeah, I would say I truly probably read some sort of book
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article like every single day for like the last like 20 years.
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I'm always listening to podcasts.
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I'm looking for edges that can keep me inspired and motivated
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because you know, this is hard, right?
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Like, you know, it's it's hard running a business, it's hard
15:02
having responsibility, it's hard making financial decisions every
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single day. And then on top of that, that's
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just at work. Like then you go home and I have
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a wife and three kids and all the responsibilities at home as
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well. And so, yeah, you just need to
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keep yourself motivated. I'm very like, you know, my, my,
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if people ask me like if you were to say, Hey, why are you
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successful? Well, it's because I can, I can
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grind like I'm very disciplined. Like if I set a goal, I will do
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whatever it takes to get there. I'm super committed.
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I'm very consistent. Like those are like, that's like
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my foundation of I'm constantly just reminding myself, what's
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the discipline I need to have? Am I really being committed to
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what I said I was going to do? And am I just going to do it
15:42
consistently over the course of time?
15:44
And those are like the conversations I'm having with
15:46
myself and, and frankly the others on my team, right?
15:50
Because like everybody's always looking for like the big like
15:54
secret of like success and like the, like the, you know, silver
15:59
bullet or shiny object or whatever.
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And it's like, really the foundational parts of success or
16:04
like the basics, which are your commitment, your consistency and
16:07
your disciplines. And like, the most successful
16:09
people I know, like, that's what they talk about.
16:12
It was funny. You guys might have heard a guy
16:14
named Tom Brady, you know, pretty well known around these
16:16
parts. Yeah.
16:17
Yeah. And, and he did his Hall of Fame
16:19
speech and I've been, you know, and he literally talked about
16:22
those three things in his speech.
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And I was like, you know, I was like, this is cool.
16:27
Like, you know, like the world's greatest at his craft is talking
16:31
about the same things that like, I think are important to, you
16:34
know, mortgages or business or frankly any part of life.
16:36
Yeah, one of the best speeches ever by.
16:37
The way that. That night at Gillette.
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Yeah, it's great. It's fun.
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You came in and taught a class to us two years ago, called Back
16:43
to the Basics. Yeah.
16:44
And most people, especially salespeople, because people are
16:48
all over the place, they can't stick to the basic basics and be
16:50
disciplined and consistent. So yeah, that's something we
16:53
constantly talk about. Say guys, remember One Shot
16:54
taught that class about this. We have to continue down that
16:57
path. So that's really great.
16:58
So being a leader as we continue this conversation is challenging
17:02
no matter what it is, whether it's running a 5000 person
17:05
company, 80 person team or even your household at home.
17:08
How do you differentiate the type of leader you are in each
17:11
of those avenues? Well, it's so I would say this
17:14
stuff at at work is very much hand in hand.
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So like I think the way I have to show up for my team members
17:20
on like the shop and ocean team is very much similar to the way
17:25
I show up for the team at rate like the overall larger team.
17:30
I think with the team at individually within the team, I
17:34
have to carry our vision and you know, all the different things
17:39
that we need to do to have success on a day-to-day basis.
17:42
Whereas with the company, it is more about like how I built this
17:47
and how they can use some of the things that I did with my team
17:51
to build their own individual businesses or my knowledge of
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closing. 40,000 more 40,000 mortgage transactions or, or
18:00
building or, or understanding what Realtors need from a
18:04
mortgage company or what clients need from a mortgage company and
18:07
applying that to our company as a whole, whether it's through
18:10
tech or our platforms or our products.
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So that's been fun because like, I truly get it.
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Like, you know, I'm not like your typical executive that like
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somebody might look at and be like, Oh, he, you know, he or
18:19
she doesn't understand what I need.
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Like I really do like I'm in it. So that's, that's a huge part.
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So what I, whatever I lack for in terms of experience or
18:28
knowledge as as an executive, I, I think I make up for and just
18:32
like being in the business and getting that part of it and be
18:34
able to talk to talk and having like that street credit, if you
18:36
want to call it. And that's my strength right
18:38
now. I think over the course of time,
18:40
my experience will come just like it.
18:41
Everybody, nobody kind of wakes up is like a born, you know,
18:44
knowing everything, right, Like you got.
18:46
I believe you got to lean into your strengths and try to adapt
18:49
and improve your weaknesses. Yeah.
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I think that's a massive value add for a rate having you there
18:54
as a top executive, but also someone that all of the loan
18:57
officers when you're talking, they're going to listen because
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they want to build a fraction of what you've built.
19:02
I think that's massive. How do you stay?
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You've built right massive company along obviously with
19:07
many years prior from others as well, but you've built your
19:09
team. How do you stay motivated to
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accomplish even more? Yeah, I think part of it is this
19:16
truthfully, and this might, I don't know if this to stay
19:23
motivated, it's like you got to really take care of yourself.
19:25
Like the people that I see that are like burnt out are the ones
19:29
that like their energy levels are off.
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They don't take care of themselves first, right?
19:34
I find that like I stay super energetic, fired up, positive,
19:38
motivated. It's like all those things are a
19:39
lot easier to stay when you're feeling healthy, when you're
19:42
rested, when you're recovered, when you're working out, when
19:45
you're eating better. You know, So I've changed a lot
19:47
like it to to kind of one of the things like I didn't want to be
19:51
one of those people that had success for like a year or two
19:53
and then disappeared because we know all those people.
19:55
You've seen Realtors that come out of the gates and all of a
19:56
sudden you're like, wait, what happened?
19:57
That person and or, or any type of life.
20:01
I was like, I wanted to, you know, I'm proud to say I was the
20:03
number one loner engineer in the country for nine years in a row.
20:06
And like part of that is like I really focused on like my
20:09
longevity, physically, emotionally, mentally,
20:12
spiritually, all that kind of stuff like that foundational
20:15
take care of myself, allows me to take care of other people and
20:18
like you're just in a better headspace, right?
20:19
Like when you're. Thoughts are good and your
20:21
emotions are good. It tends to result in like you
20:24
being more positive and then it tends to result in better
20:27
results and outcomes. Right?
20:29
Like so, but the other part is like, you know, there's a little
20:32
bit of me that's like I've always had a chip on my
20:34
shoulder. I'm there's a little bit of like
20:36
my identity was like being successful.
20:38
So like I don't want to give that up, right.
20:40
Like there's a little bit of fear of failure for sure.
20:42
Like I think you talk to anybody that's had success, like, you
20:46
know, there's, there's a fear of failure that's like a motivator.
20:49
So I'm like, well, what do I have to do?
20:50
Like I always think about like, well, who's coming up behind me?
20:53
Who's going to, who's going to try to do what we're doing
20:56
better? What technology they're going to
20:57
use? How are they going to
20:58
communicate? What relationships of ours are
21:01
they going to kind of take, right.
21:02
And so the only way I can overcome that is like learning
21:05
everything I need to do and adapt with the market.
21:07
I always try to figure out where is the market going and how can
21:10
we invest our time, our money, all our resources into
21:15
understanding that? And, and then the other part of
21:17
it is like, kind of, I said earlier, like I'm always
21:20
obsessed with three things. And I already said this earlier,
21:23
but it's true. Like what are the obstacles and
21:25
challenges in my clients? What are the obstacles and
21:27
challenges in my Realtors? What are the obstacles and
21:29
challenges of the loan officers? What are the obstacles and
21:30
challenges of my team members and how can I be the solution?
21:33
And those things kind of change over the course of time.
21:35
Certain markets, like you know, back in 2020 and 2021 when rates
21:40
went down to 2 and 3%, we went from doing like 1500 loans to
21:43
4000 loans, right? And like it happened overnight,
21:47
right? So that was all about doing a
21:49
great job manufacturing as many mortgages as possible.
21:52
So we had to hire people, we had to create different silos to
21:55
where our purchase business went through 1 silo and our refinance
21:57
business went through another. So we could handle both because
21:59
there was an opportunity to do that and, and that's all it was.
22:03
As long as you were like really good transactionally, because
22:05
the market and you could move quick, you'd have success.
22:09
Whereas like then all of a sudden inventory dropped, right?
22:12
And there was like no houses on the market.
22:14
And like it, it all became about like, Hey, how, how fast?
22:18
How can you get your offers to stand out?
22:20
Because like there's going to be multiple offers in every single
22:22
house. So like, you know, what can you
22:23
do to help your clients win outside of just providing just a
22:27
really great mortgage experience?
22:28
Then rates went up and, and house prices, by the way, kept
22:31
going, going up. So now you're dealing with
22:32
affordability challenges with low inventory, like how can you
22:35
solve for that, right? And then, and then it's like,
22:38
you know, so it's, and then how can I help buyers, you know, or
22:42
buyers agents? And then how can I equally help
22:44
list sellers and sellers agents, right?
22:47
So it's just trying to, I always look at us.
22:50
And again, this applies to any business.
22:52
You can either be commoditized, right?
22:54
Which is means I just sell interest rate, I sell money and
22:58
that's all that matters is what rate I can offer or I can
23:01
provide value and I can outvalue my competition and be
23:03
differentiated, right? So we're just always think about
23:05
how can we differentiate ourselves from every other
23:07
mortgage person? We don't want to just be at
23:08
interest rate, right 'cause like that's forgettable.
23:11
You know that I want the average consumer or the average
23:14
homeowner will take out about 12 mortgages over the course of
23:17
their, you know, their, their, their, their, their homes, a
23:20
life cycle, right? Whether it's purchase,
23:23
refinances, investment properties, second homes,
23:26
whatever, I want to do all twelve of those, right?
23:28
So how do I stay memorable instead of forgettable, right?
23:32
So it's not just, it's not nobody's going to be like that
23:35
guy gave me a great rate. It's going to be how I made them
23:37
feel, the value I provided, but it helped them win, how I stayed
23:40
in touch with them, all the different little things we did.
23:43
So that's how we do it. Yeah, it's.
23:45
Impressive. You have such a natural born
23:48
like competitive edge, right? And then competitive with
23:50
yourself, competitive with the competition.
23:52
Edge rusher at Bentley? Yeah.
23:54
I mean, that's why. That was my favorite thing,
23:56
right? Yeah, yeah.
23:57
Yeah, but you also, you know, you have a hunger and a drive,
24:01
right? What do you do with your team in
24:04
order to help get them kind of to have that similar mindset?
24:08
What type of professional metrics do you look for, whether
24:12
it's, you know, in making sure that they're doing their jobs
24:14
correctly? You talked a lot about providing
24:17
value to your clients to make sure you guys are unforgettable
24:19
and you create an unforgettable experience.
24:21
What are some of those professional metrics that really
24:23
matter to you so. I think it goes hand in hand
24:26
with the previous question is like, you know, how do you stay
24:28
ahead of it? How do you work with the team?
24:29
How do you get keep the business moving forward and how do you
24:31
adapt? Too many people and this is a
24:33
cliche, right? Too many people are just working
24:35
in the business and not on the business, right?
24:36
We've heard that a bunch of times.
24:37
And what does that mean? Like we're always forward
24:39
planning. Like what are issues right now?
24:41
What are we going to accomplish? What are the big business things
24:43
we're going to accomplish this quarter?
24:45
What are we going to accomplish over the course of the next
24:47
year? What are we going to accomplish
24:48
over the course of the next year?
24:50
So like short term, medium term, long term and making sure, So
24:54
what we do with the team is making sure everybody knows what
24:57
we're trying to do. Everybody has identifiable
25:00
things they're going to help the team work on.
25:02
So there's an accountability piece to it.
25:04
Everybody understands the numbers.
25:05
Like so you, you, you, you have a map and you're like, this is
25:08
where we're trying to get to, here's how we're going to get
25:10
there. And you do that based on the
25:12
systems and processes, but also the numbers.
25:14
So everybody's got weekly accountability numbers on the
25:17
entire team, whether it be simple like things from
25:20
activities and actions to outcomes.
25:22
And we hold everybody accountable to those.
25:24
And we find that at least if we hold everybody accountable to
25:26
that and it's OK if somebody doesn't hit it, but then it
25:29
leads to, well, why didn't you hit it?
25:30
Is it something on our end? Is it something on your end?
25:33
Is it a fluke? You know, so if you're measuring
25:36
thing on a weekly basis, a quarterly basis, yearly basis
25:39
and doing a really good communicating the why magic
25:42
happens, right? And so like I can tell you all
25:44
our metrics to down to the most minor things for the last nine
25:49
years on a weekly basis going all the way back.
25:53
And what's cool is like, you know, sometimes like I'll be
25:55
freaking out. I'll be sitting there like, hey,
25:57
we must be off our game. Like leads our way down or
25:59
something like that, or Closings or lock volumes off.
26:02
And then I'll be like, well, hold on.
26:03
Let me look at last July and then let me look at the July
26:05
before that. Let me look at the July before
26:07
that. It could be any season, right?
26:08
But having those numbers gives you confidence and eliminates a
26:11
lot of anxiety. And there's, you know, it leaves
26:14
clues on terms of or, or frankly, not even clues, just
26:17
answers in terms of like what you should do.
26:18
Like if I didn't have enough amount of inquiries this week,
26:22
well, what were what were the activities and actions I did
26:26
last week? Was it calls?
26:27
Am I not doing enough events? Am I not posting enough on
26:29
social media? I'm tracking all that stuff.
26:31
And sometimes the answer, frankly, is no, we're not doing
26:33
enough. Sometimes you just got to ramp
26:34
it up. Other times you got to totally
26:38
revamp systems, processes, the way you market, brand, the
26:42
relationships you have, that lead conversion, all that kind
26:45
of stuff. Top of the funnel activity
26:46
usually solves all the problems. I love it.
26:48
It's money making activities. That's what we call it too.
26:51
And it's just, it is that simple, right?
26:53
Like what you're what you're explaining is, and I think you
26:56
said it at the beginning too, it's the simple stuff.
26:58
People want an easy solution. They want this, you know, magic
27:02
bullet, right? But ultimately what it is is
27:04
it's the boring, mundane things. Yeah, that actually create the
27:08
growth, right? The scalability, the growth, the
27:10
compound effect that ends up leading to this type of success.
27:13
And then when you're at the top, it sounds like what you've been
27:16
able to do too is you've really, truly been able to gather so
27:19
much data on your actual business.
27:21
So you make sound decisions going forward regularly, right,
27:25
Like looking back on data to be able to compare and contrast.
27:28
And then also, I mean, all those loans that you guys got your
27:30
hands on and all those refunds in 2021, you must have had the
27:33
processes already set up to then be able to take that when things
27:37
started going down and in terms of rates, right, going up,
27:41
actually, right, and inventory going down.
27:44
But at that point, it's like you must have taken a lot of that
27:46
and been able to spin that in a positive way, right?
27:49
So can you talk a little bit about some of those things that
27:52
your team did to set you up at kind of like if you go back
27:56
again for the early days, like what are some of the systems
27:59
that you guys have that you would say to any business owner
28:02
if you were starting out before you hire employees?
28:05
Like what's something that you think is the number one success?
28:08
One is, you know, I think a lot of the success that I had was,
28:12
you know, as I started hitting ceilings, I started hiring the
28:17
right people, right? Like there's only so much you
28:19
can do as an individual, right? So I think then it's about as
28:23
you're, you know, one I think is, you know, some of the things
28:25
are one, tracking everything that you want to do, right?
28:29
And as you're hiring people, like I know what I'm really,
28:32
really great at and I know what I love to do.
28:36
I also know now what I don't like to do and what I'm not
28:39
great at. And so probably the biggest
28:41
mistakes I tried to make and a lot of entrepreneurs make is I
28:43
just need another one of me, right?
28:45
So then you try to like mimic yourself and now you don't
28:48
really solve any problems. One, you're never going to hire
28:50
you. It's impossible.
28:52
Generally speaking, the most successful people, like I think
28:54
the reason you guys work so well together is you've got opposite
28:57
skill sets and think about the power that gives to your team
29:00
and your clients. You've got like two different
29:02
really powerful brains that like complement each other.
29:06
So I think as you're hiring people, I think it's find people
29:10
that are really great at the things you're not great at and
29:14
things that you don't like to do.
29:15
Believe it or not, there's a lot of people out there that love
29:17
the things that you hate and want to do it.
29:20
And so I think that's part of it.
29:21
And I think the other thing was the mistake I made and one was
29:25
not hiring fast enough. 2 was like, you know, you think you
29:28
can just train anybody, but like if you want things done the way
29:31
you want, it's like you really have to have a training system.
29:33
And it doesn't have to be like this elaborate thing.
29:35
Like train them on one thing at a time and, and give them Rd.
29:37
maps as to when you onboard somebody, like map out all the
29:41
things they're going to take off your plate so that it's like
29:43
very, very clear to them. Like here's what you should do
29:45
every single time when you do this for me, as opposed to just
29:48
like letting them figure it out themselves.
29:50
Allow them to make mistakes, coach and train them on the
29:53
mistakes so that they try not to happen over and over again.
29:56
I think it's really important to identify what the right person
30:01
looks like in that seat as opposed to just a mirror image
30:03
of yourself. So we always talk about right
30:05
person, the right seats and, and do they like, you know, you guys
30:09
have probably heard this before. Do they get it?
30:10
Do they want it? Do they have the capacity to do
30:11
it? Like we're constantly talking
30:13
about that. So hiring is extremely
30:14
difficult, but it's if I look back as like the way my team
30:18
grew and why I had success was every time we hit a ceiling, it
30:22
was always like, where do we need to hire to allow us to
30:25
continue to grow? So like when as I was building
30:27
my business, at first it was like, maybe I need a couple
30:30
sales assistants, right? And then that was going really
30:33
good, you know, So you know, I was doing business, but I needed
30:36
more people to support me so I could keep doing what I was
30:38
doing. I hired a couple of sales
30:39
assistants. Then I hired somebody to run
30:42
operations for my entire team. That really was massively
30:45
important for me. Then I hired somebody to take
30:47
over business development for me, massively successful.
30:50
Then I hired somebody to run marketing for me, massively
30:52
successful. Then I hired an executive admin,
30:55
right? And then I gave those people the
30:58
ability and empowerment to hire teams underneath themselves.
31:02
And so instead of being just like a salesperson, which I was
31:05
when I first started, which is OK, I became a business owner.
31:08
So now I'm focused on sales operations, marketing, branding,
31:12
client retention, customer service, all of these things.
31:16
And there's an administrative function that can handle all the
31:18
requests that come in as you get more and more inquiries.
31:19
So I really went from like a salesperson mindset to ACEO
31:23
mindset. But I knew the thing that I was
31:27
like most talented at, like I'm a rainmaker, like I like I can
31:30
bring business in. And so I wanted to build the
31:33
team that would allow me to be the CEO but also head rainmaker.
31:37
And because, you know, we were just talking about this a couple
31:40
minutes ago, you know, there's in a bit being a business
31:45
owner's tough. The thing, the one thing that
31:47
makes a lot of problems go away is a lot of business coming in.
31:50
Like even if you're not good at things, like even if you're not
31:52
good at converting a lot of it, if you can just make the phone
31:56
and e-mail, like the phone ring and emails come in and inquiries
31:58
come in, like you're going to have more success than you're
32:01
not, right? Like you can be like the
32:03
biggest, you know, like you could know, be the biggest
32:06
expert. There's a lot of really smart,
32:08
talented people out there that don't know how to make the phone
32:10
ring right. And so like revenue solves a lot
32:13
of problems. Revenue allows you to make
32:15
mistakes. Revenue allows you to reinvest
32:17
in your business, hire people, take classes, you know, take
32:21
chances. You know, I've, I've spent a lot
32:23
of money on stuff that hasn't worked out.
32:25
But if the phone wasn't ringing, I wouldn't have been able to do
32:27
that, you know, so. As the phone vibrates next to.
32:30
You, yeah. And by the way, heading forward?
32:32
How many loans are you missing? Somebody's supposed to be
32:34
picking that up. No, that must be this.
32:37
I have like a a secret line that my kids and my wife have so that
32:41
that the only ones I can get through when it's ringing like
32:43
that. Yeah.
32:45
Right, Dad? It's usually my daughter.
32:48
If it rings like 3 * a row it's my daughter and usually she's
32:50
like she's she's like pretty pissed that she can't get a hold
32:53
of me and she's got orders for me.
32:56
Yeah. Hey, how so you, you just
32:58
talked, you just talked about a main thing in your business is
33:00
being able to bring on the right people.
33:02
How do you find that talent? Hiring the right people is very,
33:05
very difficult. What is your?
33:06
What is your process there? So I will say the thing I
33:11
learned pretty quickly is that for me to hire the right people
33:14
that really knew me, I did almost all my hiring through
33:19
friends and family and, and current coworkers and like
33:21
people that did business with me.
33:23
So when every time I'd look to hire somebody, I was like
33:26
telling everybody I knew. I like, for example, every
33:30
attorney or every realtor or all my team members, like those were
33:34
the people that gave me the best referrals.
33:36
Finding people from like job boards and all that kind of
33:38
stuff that like didn't know what they were walking into is
33:39
extremely difficult. So my almost all of my most
33:43
impactful hires were referred directly to me by somebody that
33:46
I know and trust very much. So because they know like my
33:49
crazy, right? They know what like what, what
33:53
I'll be into and, and who will be successful for me.
33:56
And very rarely will people like refer somebody to you that
33:59
actually really knows you that like is no good, right?
34:02
And so you're not. Getting anyone that's not a hard
34:03
worker. No, yeah.
34:04
And so like, so that's been might be so like when I really
34:08
want to hire somebody, I tell I'm constantly talking about it
34:10
all the time. Like I'm putting it out into the
34:12
world and every conversation I find ways to bring it up.
34:14
I'm now with social media and stuff.
34:15
I'm blasting it all over there. You know, of course I've had a
34:18
couple lucky times where like I found recruiters or whatever
34:21
that have made it impactful hire, but almost everybody is
34:24
just like, I just constantly talk about it.
34:26
It's amazing if you do that, like very quickly you find what
34:29
you're looking for. Yeah.
34:30
Yeah, word of mouth. And they already know your
34:33
expectations, you know how hard you work, your reputation, all
34:35
those things. But what I do do, Ryan, and like
34:38
to your point to answer your question is like there's no BS
34:41
anymore. Like when somebody's coming on
34:42
the team, I was like, here's what we do, here's where we're
34:45
going, here's what our vision is, here's what I'm like to work
34:48
with. Here's what your day-to-day is
34:49
going to look like. And like, does that sound like
34:51
it's a good fit? Because like in today's day and
34:54
age, like finding like good people to work is hard.
34:57
And so like, and there's a lot of great people out there, but
34:59
I'm like super transparent with like, if you want to come along
35:03
for the party, come along. But this is what the party's
35:04
going to be like, right? And so 'cause like there's a lot
35:08
of resource that goes into that and like, you can just move so
35:12
much faster. Like I'm proud to say that most
35:15
of the people that you guys know, my team members, a lot of
35:16
them have been with me for a very long time.
35:18
We're celebrating a lot of 10 year anniversaries.
35:20
It's a lot, man. Wild.
35:21
Yeah. And it's and it's and, and I'm
35:23
so proud of it. So.
35:25
But we go hard, you know? And so I want people that like
35:28
that want and, and I also want people that know how much I care
35:31
about my partners, know how much I care about my clients.
35:33
Like that's really important. Some people don't care about
35:35
that stuff. To work in my world, you gotta
35:37
care. Yeah, it's all a reflection on
35:38
you. Yeah.
35:39
So if you're hiring people, if you're going to now be, you
35:41
know, next year, be the 10th year in a row on top of the
35:43
country, like you got to have superstars.
35:45
Yeah. Plus like, you know, I got this
35:46
client that's calling me a first time homebuyer, right?
35:48
They don't care that I'm ranked number one in the country.
35:50
They care that they're buying a house and they care that their
35:53
deposits online and they care they got a closing date and this
35:55
is their dream, right? I want somebody that's going to
35:57
like respect that and like show up for them when they need us
36:00
the most, right? They don't know.
36:01
Nobody cares about how much business we have or our rankings
36:04
or any of that stuff. So I need people that like at
36:06
their core, think about people like that.
36:08
Like one of our core values is care about people, right?
36:10
Like that's real. Do whatever it takes is one of
36:12
our other core values like so like that.
36:14
Like if you don't fit into our core values like, you're just
36:16
not a fit. When your clients are going
36:19
through one of the most stressful experiences of their
36:21
lifetime, you know, I mean, it's, it's great to know that
36:24
they can trust you that you're number one, that you've done
36:26
that type of business, that you have that level of experience.
36:29
But ultimately it's like, how do you make them feel?
36:31
And if your team isn't making them feel exceptional, you
36:35
wouldn't have stayed number one this long, right?
36:37
So obviously you guys are doing that.
36:38
But one thing, and I do want to mention this again, is you
36:41
brought up though, when you bring on your hires that you
36:43
actually give them a road map and set expectations.
36:46
You use the word road map, which for me in operations, it's like
36:50
talking dirty, right? So realistically it's I think
36:53
that's the one thing that I see with people when they make
36:56
hires, though, is everyone's out to always say, oh, that
36:59
generation doesn't want to work hard or, you know, no one wants
37:02
to work around here kind of a thing.
37:03
And it's like, but did you actually set them up for
37:06
success? Is the biggest thing I always
37:07
say to any business owner is you can't just always point blame at
37:11
the hires. You have to look into like, was
37:14
your process good? Did you lay out the
37:16
expectations? Were you really clear what it's
37:18
like to work at your at your company?
37:20
Right. And then from there, did you set
37:22
them up with all the tools they needed to be successful?
37:24
The road map, the actual, you know, tools and skill set that
37:30
they need and training, right? Because for me, it's like that
37:33
can make a break. We talk about all the time the
37:36
first couple of weeks, like even the first day down to the first
37:38
day when someone comes into our team, they're finally seeing
37:41
behind the curtain that is going to immediately stick with them
37:45
for however long they work with you.
37:47
It's how they felt on that day. Are they sitting there like I
37:49
just made the best decision ever or are they sitting there
37:52
thinking what did I just do right?
37:54
Like why did I join this? And I think that you've clearly
37:57
done an amazing job with that's why you've kept all these people
38:00
for such a long time. I'll.
38:01
Tell you, I want to do a better job now after listening to you
38:04
for a little bit, I was like, I can do better on that first day,
38:06
that first week. Like what you're talking about
38:08
is super important. And like, I think we've done an
38:10
OK job of that. I think we can totally step up
38:12
our game even more. You got me inspired.
38:14
You challenged them. Yeah, I love it.
38:15
I, I think it's, it, it challenges us too though, like
38:18
we really like it. And I think for us it's, you
38:20
mentioned a little bit about this too, but it's very time
38:23
consuming to bring on hires. It's really expensive.
38:25
It takes away from some of your bottom line, right, of what
38:28
you're really trying to do because it's a distraction at
38:31
times when you bring in these new people that don't really
38:33
know yet what they're doing. You have to make sure as an
38:35
entrepreneur in any industry that you're bringing on a fit
38:39
that is going to be highly successful within your business.
38:42
And then from there that you're ready to invest the actual time
38:45
in them. So then they can invest back,
38:47
right? Especially with the level of
38:49
expectations you have, it's like you really want to show them
38:52
that you're going to give them everything they need for support
38:54
to be able to grow into that role.
38:57
But that being said, that's awesome.
38:58
I. Mean I could we could talk for
38:59
hours about this and I know you could talk about leadership and
39:01
building businesses for hours. We're going to do rapid fire
39:04
questions. OK, cool.
39:06
So feel free, one word, quick answers, whatever, whatever
39:08
works for you. I'm long winded, so we'll see.
39:10
Let's go. So are we.
39:13
Morning routine you never skip. Alarm goes off at 4:15 every
39:17
single morning, gym at 5, AMI meditate and I read 10 pages
39:22
every single day OK? So that goes into this one.
39:26
Favorite business or leadership book?
39:29
Oh, that's a great one. I would say.
39:33
Wow my favorite business book Shoo dog.
39:37
The Nike story Phil Knight and how he started Nike.
39:40
That's just a fun read. I would say the everything store
39:43
about how Jeff Bezos started Amazon as well as a really fun
39:46
read as well. I love.
39:47
It best piece of advice you've ever received.
39:50
You know, it sounds so simple. Hard work literally will make up
39:57
for a lot of mistakes. Like if you're willing to
39:59
outwork everyone with whatever you're looking to accomplish,
40:03
like you will be successful. Of of course, if you do it for
40:06
more than a few days, but weeks, months, years, you know.
40:09
It's funny, we talk about this too.
40:11
And we started in a similar time frame 20 years ago.
40:13
And I still talk to people that are just getting in the
40:15
business. And when we talked to them, I
40:16
said, are you willing to grind for years and years and years to
40:19
be successful? And frankly, most people aren't.
40:21
You know, you're not getting a check unless you actually close
40:25
the sale. There's no salaries here.
40:27
I would say learning what I've learned now and my advice that I
40:29
would give to people is work on your mindset, like your
40:32
mindsets, your your biggest asset.
40:35
The the most successful are people like that are willing to
40:37
work the hardest, just like like pouring in themselves.
40:40
So your mindset is, yeah, everything like if you, the most
40:44
successful people I know can go to places in their mind, in
40:48
their soul that most people can't.
40:49
So like that's how you do it for weeks and months and years and
40:53
years and years and stay that consistency in the discipline.
40:56
It comes from up here. OK.
40:57
You might have just answered our next question, but most
41:00
impactful business investment you've made?
41:03
I would say I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on
41:08
coaches, courses, mentors, all that kind of stuff.
41:11
Like hundreds of thousands, you know, so investing in EOS like I
41:16
was talking about and hiring Aeos implementer and going to
41:19
Chicago every quarter for three years to do a strategic coach
41:22
and the different business coaches and physical fitness
41:26
coaches and, and you know, mindset coach everything.
41:31
Like I'm constantly paying people to help me get better.
41:34
Yeah, you're investing in your mind and body too, 'cause you
41:38
got some coaching on the physical side.
41:40
That's good. What's your one thing that's on
41:42
the calendar that's completely non negotiable?
41:46
Oh boy, my kids games. Yeah.
41:49
So like if I put a kids sports game or their events, I'm going
41:54
every single time. Doesn't matter what's going on.
41:56
I've changed business trips around it.
41:57
I've cancelled events because of it.
42:00
I just love that. And you know, I know I, I
42:03
remember as a kid growing up, like my dad never missed any of
42:05
my games no matter where it was. That's really important to me.
42:08
I have a much greater appreciation for now as to truly
42:10
how fast it goes by. Like I feel like my oldest
42:12
daughter was born yesterday and she's going into high school
42:14
next month. So it goes by fast.
42:16
And I just love those car rides, the car rides home, the events,
42:21
the trips with them. I just love like the kids sports
42:24
stuff. Being with them for that stuff
42:25
is awesome. If you.
42:25
Got to work so hard to build it. You got to enjoy.
42:28
It. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's
42:30
really where it's at. I never thought of that before.
42:31
That was a good question, yeah. By the way, you nailed the
42:34
answer. Imagine if you were like, well,
42:36
my morning meeting with the team.
42:39
Yeah, I was like literally I was like what's?
42:40
And it's like literally like my assistant Dana, who is like
42:44
keeps me on track at work. Like she knows like my schedule
42:48
starts with my kids stuff and then we work around everything
42:51
on it. So that's something I've, I've
42:52
definitely, I probably fumble like early on in my fatherhood,
42:56
like early on because you know, you're like they're young, but
42:58
like I feel like I've gotten way better at that over the last
43:00
five or six years and I'm, I'm really happy that I have.
43:03
That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome.
43:04
But you've also built such an amazing business and it's like
43:06
you've earned the right to be able to say like that's a non
43:09
negotiable. And your kids are going to be so
43:11
grateful for them when they're older and they realize how much
43:13
work that is as a parent, right? It's hard.
43:16
It's hard to make it to all those things, but that's
43:18
incredible that you do it. Last question for you, what's
43:21
next for you personally and for rate?
43:24
Personally, you know what's become, while we're on the topic
43:27
of the kids, like what's become super important for me
43:29
personally is like the experiences with my kids, like I
43:32
love like just creating like amazing memories.
43:35
Like that's like what it's all about.
43:36
Like the reason you work hard is to be able to give yourself an
43:38
opportunity to cool stuff. So like I'm like all about like
43:41
the vacations and the fun travel and like just like putting
43:45
giving my kids the opportunity to see things and do things
43:47
together and creating like memories.
43:48
Like that's I'm obsessed that right now, it's just like making
43:52
awesome memories with my kids around fun experiences.
43:54
So that's my biggest thing personally.
43:57
And just like, you know, being more present at home, like
43:59
that's like an everlasting thing that I'll probably always be
44:02
working on professionally. You know, I think that both the,
44:07
the company like rate I we're on a mission to become the number
44:09
one lender in America. Like right now we're the third
44:13
largest lender in America. We are obsessed with being #1 so
44:16
we're going to find a way to get there.
44:18
It's just by creating massive value for everybody around us,
44:21
our real estate partners like you guys, our clients obviously
44:24
on consumers that are buying houses and and trying to redo
44:27
their existing ones and then our loan officers and all the
44:30
employees that work there. So like we're investing in
44:34
product and technology and people and all the stuff we can
44:37
do be to just out value our competition, differentiate
44:40
ourselves from everybody else. So that's what's going on there.
44:43
And Team Benosian, hopefully we've had a great, you know,
44:47
we've had a a great 15 to 20 year run Now you know, the goal
44:51
is to continue to be the number one mortgage team in America and
44:53
hopefully create even more of a gap and then grab more market
44:57
share and just continue figure out ways to put more people in
44:59
homes and meet the best real estate agent partners in the
45:03
world. I love it.
45:04
So just a couple of couple of minor goals.
45:07
Big goals, just. A few a few things you'd like to
45:09
check. Off I like to go hard like to.
45:12
It's fun for me, you know, like if we're going to do it, you
45:16
know, I might as well do it big this.
45:17
Will be #1. Hey man, it's, it's really been
45:20
an absolute pleasure chatting. This is great.
45:22
Appreciate you coming. On Yeah, I appreciate you guys.
45:24
This is fun. We're like we're doing.
45:26
We've been together, like I said, a long time, like it's
45:29
it's it's been a lot of fun. So thank you for having us.
45:31
Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on.
45:33
And you better make that phone call 'cause you get some
45:35
important girls waiting for you. Yeah.
45:37
Sure, I bet it's Stella. Guaranteed.
45:38
Thanks my man. Thanks guys.