Latest / Thrive A/F (After Forty) / Lever 2: Exercise & Movement - How to Build Real-World Capacity After 40 | Thrive A/F Ep. 3

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Lever 2: Exercise & Movement - How to Build Real-World Capacity After 40 | Thrive A/F Ep. 3 · Thrive A/F (After Forty)

• Keith AI: The Thrive AF Podcast is a Pescador media production. Keith: All right, welcome. Episode three, Thrive AF. That's Thrive After Forty. am Keith, one of the hosts of the podcast. I'm here with my friend Lou. Lou, say hello. Lou Fratto: Hi, I'm Lou. Keith: I don't know what Lou Fratto: The other host of the podcast. So I'm ⁓ excited that this is an exciting topic for me. Super exciting. Keith: There we go. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's a big like part of the structure of the book ⁓ just life in general. It just sort of enables so much more stuff that we talk about. So why don't you talk about the lever that we are going to talk about today? Lou Fratto: Okay, so this lever is lever number two in the book, and it is ⁓ exercise and movement, basically. And so I think specifically, ⁓ ⁓ we're gonna talk about just what kind of exercise and movement do you need to do? How of it do you need to do? We're gonna talk about ⁓ VO2 Max, the definition of that. There's a lot of people that are throwing that around. ⁓ Keith: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: We're going to talk about is it ever too old to start? Keith: ⁓ before we do that, I want to do gonna add a disclaimer at the beginning of this. So this podcast is meant for educational and informational purposes only. So check with the doctor prior to starting any new exercise program. So that being said, why don't we go right into it? We'll start with that first question. if you could turn exercise literally into a magic pill, would it be the most powerful anti-aging drug on the earth? Lou Fratto: Yes, I think it I think it would be ⁓ because exercise basically helps every single longevity pathway. It helps everything from your gut health, from your cognition, ⁓ it wards off helps to ward ward off depression, it helps to ward off ⁓ it helps to ward off bone loss, muscle loss. Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: ⁓ it helps with your strength and your mobility and your ability to do things, including your balance. So it helps you prevent falling. It helps your heart, cardiovascular system. I mean, it just goes on and on the different benefits of it. but you know, the only drawback though is that it it takes time and it takes effort. And the the results don't show up right away, and then you have to be consistent with it. So if it was a pill, hey, it would be Keith: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Lou Fratto: that much easier for us to just pop a pill, right? And it but it definitely would be the I would argue the most potent anti aging ⁓ longevity pill out there. By far. By far. Keith: the the idea of kind of a magic pill for health has been around for a long time. And I think a lot of the discussion these days is positioning things like GLPs as these magic pills. And you see ⁓ a lot about GLPs peptides in general. But the one thing that ⁓ we talked about prior this is the the the years and years and decades of science around ⁓ ⁓ exercise and movement is solid and it's there and it supports everything that you said about the way that it's the foundation for healthy aging and doing so much more to improve. ⁓ but what we know, what know for certain today is that exercise and movement should be part of anybody's plan to age gracefully, but also just to be healthy at any age really. ⁓ Lou Fratto: Yeah, I would agree. And and even obviously if you're you're ⁓ taking a peptide or GLP ones, you know, you need to have a doctor's involvement and approval. And if your want doctor wants you to take it. Keith: Sure. Yeah. Lou Fratto: But I would even suggest just asking your doctor ⁓ as well if you should do some exercise to complement it. Because some of the side effects of the GLP ones, exercise can help to reduce or prevent those side effects, such as muscle loss and things like that. And another thing too about exercise, ⁓ is exercise can be done completely free, really. And the GLP ones are pretty GLP ones are pretty expensive, you know. So Keith: Yep, I was gonna say the same thing. Yeah, I mean that's definitely a barrier. And, you know, sometimes we forget that there's a lot, that you can do that doesn't require ⁓ equipment ⁓ or doesn't require you to pay any sort of fee. people might be surprised a bit ⁓ what you can do just on your own. And not everything has to be high intensity or supported by sort of, you know, gym membership or or fancy equipment. So we'll get into that. Lou Fratto: Right. Yeah. Perfect. Keith: kind of as we go along. All right. Next question. So what do you mean when you say we don't stop moving because we get old? We get old because we stop moving. Lou Fratto: Yeah, well that's I would just throw out another cliche or or ⁓ tagline and that is use it or lose it, you know, and it really is true. If you don't give your body a reason to hold on to something, whether it's an activity or a function or a or a body body part, ⁓ it's gonna assume you don't need it anymore. It's really that simple. And it's easier, it's easier if you've always done something to keep being able to do it. Keith: Okay. ja Lou Fratto: with each decade of life. You know, so if you've always, worked out and kept a certain level of strength and be able to lift things, then you're more likely to be able to lift your great grandchild at 85 than you are if you have never if you haven't worked out in, you know, 10 or 15 years. And then all of a sudden you have this great grandchild that runs up to you with this big smiling face and wants you to grab him and hold him. Keith: Yeah. Right. Lou Fratto: Yeah, you know, I had a patient like that, and she came to me and she was in her late 70s, and she wanted to be able to lift and hold her great grandchild because he was the cutest thing, and he would run up to her with this really big smile on his face, and he wanted her to pick him up and hold him, and she just didn't feel safe doing it. So she came to me and we were able to accomplish it, but it would have been easier had she just always been able to do that rather than trying to do it, you know, in her late seventies. Keith: Yeah. Yeah, the of the examples my business partner and our head coach for term this would use all the time was you want to be able to get up off the toilet when you're older. I mean, a very practical thing that a lot of people struggle with. ⁓ And would bring that up, 10, 15 years ago. And still does today because it's a common, thing of just trying to rise up from a sitting position that a lot of people have trouble with. And, it's a gonna happen or it's gonna come if we're lucky to live long enough for all of us. But I think you're right, the more that we can do ⁓ while we're able kind of train and and just be physically active and do exercise and movement, the better off, hopefully we'll be when we start feeling those natural effects of getting older. ⁓ the topic of VO2 Max ⁓ is metric that comes up a lot and been coming up a lot. can you talk a little bit about what that is and why you feel like it's important? Lou Fratto: Yeah, I would say the just the layman's term, the easiest way to explain it is it's just basically how efficiently your body and how well your body can transport oxygen ⁓ th ⁓ throughout your system. if you think about oxygen as a you know, this is a crude definition, but as just ⁓ gasoline for your the more efficiently and ⁓ and and the you can transport that through your body to the parts that need it, the the better shape you are cardiovascularly. So it's a really good metric for the how good a shape you're in cardiovascularly. But it's also been shown to, you know, the higher it is, the the less mortality that you have or the less risk you have for mortality. But the biggest gains go from being low on that score to moderate. So you have huge gains ⁓ going from low to moderate. And they've also shown that ⁓ there's benefits all the way up, even to the higher highest levels. And the highest levels, meaning the most fit individuals, have the lowest chance of dying from all causes. So it just keeps improving. It levels off as you go up. But the higher that is, the the ⁓ less chance you have of dying from all causes. And maybe so that brings us to of another part of the topic, and that is kind of what should ⁓ you do, ⁓ you and it's like, you know, it it depends where you're at. ⁓ And you probably, you divide that into two basic parts. One would be the overall longevity, Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: If you're people are watching this podcast, you know, they have an interest in longevity. And so, you know, you it one goal would be, okay, maybe when I'm, ninety-five, I still want to be able to do ⁓ like I want to be able to still lift up, my great grandchild. Maybe I want to be able to get off a toilet really easily in a restaurant that doesn't have the bars, Keith: Right. Lou Fratto: And maybe I want to be able to pull my suitcase off of a baggage carousel by myself. And maybe I want to be able to walk across a cobblestone street and you know, confidently, or, you know, something like that, or be able to do a couple staircases. So then that's gonna mean, what do I need to do now in order to to be able to do that, preserve that ability, you know, ⁓ when I do get to that decade of life. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: ⁓ but then you could get more specific as well, depending on what your what your individual goals are. So yours might be what to do CrossFit into your whatever age, And so you're gonna probably steer your goals around that. Mine might be to, get my black belt in jujitsu or something but in my 60s. And so I'm gonna gear my exercise a little more ⁓ around that. And so everybody's gonna have their own little. specific goals. I have one lady she came to me and recently and she's in her late 70s and she wants to hike the ⁓ Camino de ⁓ Santiago, which is a trail in Europe. And so she has she has some issues, you know, in her knee and and her ankle. And so she came to me so that I can help her do it safely, but also so we can get her in shape enough where when she does it, she can actually enjoy it rather than, you know, struggling through it the whole time. So everybody's goals are going to be different. Keith: Yeah, yes. Lou Fratto: But the biggest gains are shown in the beginning. And so if you go from sedentary to just 90 minutes a week, your chances of dying from all causes go down 14%. And no pill can even touch that. So people who are aren't doing, you know, who are pretty sedentary and really aren't used to exercising, just do that little minimum, you and you have a huge benefit. And you don't even have to go from Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: Doing nothing to 30 minutes three times a week, just do five minutes a day and just gradually build it up, maybe a minute or two a day of maybe you just walk. You go out of your house, you walk two and two and a half minutes to the left, and you turn around and walk two and a half minutes back and just build it up little by little. So I'm not sure if I answered the question or got way way off track, but Keith: No. I think that's within the realm of, you know, we were talking about returning to the idea of ⁓ of goals and kind of why they're important, as we age. and I think setting that target or having that target and giving yourself something to work for. I mean it makes sense at any age, but it seems especially ⁓ especially poignant as we get older so that we don't lose sight of the fact that we're still able hopefully to do things like that like that hike. Sounds amazing. ⁓ Lou Fratto: Yeah, we need like a we need a challenge to invigorate us or our or horizon to march towards, you know. So whatever makes the juice worth the squeeze, you know. Keith: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Well, like when you were mentioning and whether that's one of my goals long-term to stay with, I feel that almost the opposite, to where I'll do CrossFit as long as it keeps me fit enough to do the other things that I really want to do. ⁓ And, you or as long as I still own a CrossFit business. ⁓ Lou Fratto: ⁓ good point. Right. Keith: But you know, at some point, you know, and there's been times when I've thought about maybe changing what I do, but I really like just the community and obviously I'm gym owner. But if we were to move, for example, to another city or or another state or somewhere else, I would have to really think about whether I would get back into CrossFit or maybe do something that's different because I've been doing it for such a long time. But I really like doing it now because I I just like people a heck of a lot and it does make me feel capable in a lot of different ways. So but it's not the only thing out there for sure. ⁓ so I guess along those lines, when people think about exercise of movement, their minds immediately go to gyms or running marathons or kind of extreme workouts. But ⁓ what do you think most people actually need? Lou Fratto: I guess you look at it. a l like a ladder, so to speak. So if you're at the very first part of the ladder, again, just doing the research shows that if you just do 90 minutes a week, like I said, your your chances of dying from all causes goes down 14%. No pill can touch that. And so and again, you don't have to start off going zero to thirty, just go zero five minutes, then seven minutes, you know, each week add a minute or two. So that's huge. And then Keith: ⁓ Lou Fratto: If you're already kind of at that level, then you can kind of go to the levels of what the the the government recommends, you know, through all the research for the NIH and that kind of thing. And and and what I think is is good too, and that would be like say 150 minutes a week of moderate to ⁓ vigorous exercise. And moderate basically another word for it is zone two, which basically means, it's a it's a sustained activity. Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: And so if you figure 150 minutes, that's 30 minutes five days a week. So you could it could be walking or it could be doing an elliptical or jogging or riding a stationary bike or you know something like that. And it's where you can still hold a conversation in complete sentences, but your your voice should be a little bit labored. So if you and I were talking on the phone and I didn't tell you I was exercising, you might ask me, say, you know, hey, are you exercising or something? Like you'd be able to hear it, my voice. ⁓ but Keith: Right. Okay. Lou Fratto: Yeah, so that's basically the level. That's how you know you're at the the right level. And then you would also want to do two days a week at least, maybe even three days a week of strengthening preferably all body, you know. So you want to do upper body, you want to do lower body, and want to do core. You want to also work on your balance and your mobility a couple of times a week. And then then you also want to work on your VO2 max, and that's what what you and I were talking about earlier. Keith: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: And that is a couple couple times a week. You ideally would work on that as well. And that's where you could say do the same activity that you did in zone two, but now you're pushing it. And now you can only speak in a couple of words and then you gotta take a breath. So your your your voice is very labored. And then and you should definitely get professional assistance on that if you've never done that kind of stuff is because that's now you're you need somebody that can help you out with that. So Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: That is what I think the ideal prescription, just kind of from a broad, broad base, you know, and Keith: Yeah, I think when people hear strength training, a lot of times they think immediately of weight training. And I don't necessarily think that's the same thing. But I also feel like there seems to be a pretty common consensus these days that some form, whether it's resistance training or bodyweight training or training with weights, some form of strength training seems to be recommended for people that are getting that are older and older now than maybe it was before. And know, the idea being, trying to maintain that base level of strength as you age and and get older seems to be almost like common wisdom now. Do you f do you think that's true? You see that as well? Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, I definitely think if you because you we start losing strength in our mid thirties. And if you don't do anything to reverse it, by the time you're 85, you're so you do you you go, wow, how'd I get so weak? You know, because you just lose it little by little, but it's never too late to change it. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: ⁓ but also here's something that that ⁓ is important too. You want to maintain your muscle mass because muscle is makes you so much healthier. Muscle does all kinds of things, including improve your immune system. But it also is there's no better padding for God forbid, if you do fall than muscle. And so you want some padding if you do fall, you want some muscle. And so the way to maintain muscle is you got to do some resistance training. Keith: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you, last time I was down visiting my family in Florida, ⁓ I went to the gym. It's a very small little gym and they have a pool in the place where they live. And I was pleasantly surprised by the number of people that were coming in and either using machines or using free weights or had a trainer that would come in. And they were, you know, my parents are ⁓ in their eighties. So, you know, where they live, there's a lot of people just like them. But I think this idea of maintaining that strength so that they can do the things they want to do, like play golf and play tennis and play pickleball, is something that seems to be getting more and more common. Which is good. And there were a lot of people swimming too. Swimming's just such a great exercise for so many reasons. But Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: So what about people that might be listening or watching this who think that it's simply too late to get started? What do you tell them? Lou Fratto: Hogwash Keith: Bologna Nonsense Balderdensh. Lou Fratto: It's it's too late. They did a study where they took nursing home residents who were sedentary, right, before they started, and the average age was 87. Okay. it's too late. They did a study where they took nursing home residents who were sedentary, right, before they started, and the average age was 87. Okay. Keith: Wow. Wow. Lou Fratto: they were eighty seven and they put ⁓ on an eight week strengthening regimen ⁓ and the improvement was a hundred seventy-four percent improvement in their strength. they were eighty seven and they put ⁓ on an eight week strengthening regimen ⁓ and the improvement was a hundred seventy-four percent improvement in their strength. Keith: Wow. Yeah, that's impressive. At eight and seven, you would think by that time, like conventional wisdom would be just literally it's too late and there's nothing you can do to make improvements with these people that have been sanitary at that age. That's that's amazing. Wow. Yeah, that's impressive. At eight and seven, you would think by that time, like conventional wisdom would be just literally it's too late and there's nothing you can do to make improvements with these people that have been sanitary at that age. That's that's amazing. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. ⁓ ⁓ yeah, so it's never too late. And I see it all the time in here. Can I tell you Coralie's story? Keith: Yeah. Yeah, go for it. Lou Fratto: Okay. So Corley is an eighty-five-year-old fantastic woman. I have known her for several years. She is a retired MD professor at prominent school up in the Northeast. She was in charge of the residency program there as well for years. Okay. And she was one of the foremost physicians in her ⁓ realm. In the world. Okay. So she spread all kinds of good throughout the world, right? Including the residents that she trained in her program over all those years. But she almost didn't get into medical school. She almost didn't graduate undergrad. And here's what happened. So at her school back in the day, you had to pass PE in order to graduate. Okay. So she took it as a freshman. in order to graduate, you had to. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: You had to pass this physical fitness test, which involved, you know, things like pull-ups and push-ups and ⁓ running a certain distance within a certain amount of time, and she failed it. So then she took it again as a sophomore and she failed it. Now keep in mind this lady is super smart. She's getting straight A's and everything else, most likely, and she fails PE now two years in a row. Then she takes it as a junior and she fails it. She did. Keith: It sounds like the breakfast club where he couldn't he couldn't pass shop. you remember that? Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I you know, so then she takes it the fourth year and she said she said basically they they felt sorry for her and, you know, help let her pass or helped her pass. But you know, we were talking about it and what we figured out in hindsight was they never did any strengthening or anything or training in P E class in order to help them pass the t you know, she said, ⁓ yeah, we Yeah. Yeah. Keith: Sorry, didn't erupt. ⁓ my gosh. So it's like just go play kickball and then we're gonna do pull ups for the test. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it was like, okay, here's how you hold a tennis racket, here's how you swing the racket, here's how you hold a golf clip, things like that. And yeah, and okay, now the end of the year, here's the test. So I know. So she she just always thought, well, okay, I'm just weak. I was born weak. I'm not a strong person. Okay. So then she she helped her husband, ⁓ who was very ill for a lot of years, and then unfortunately he passed away. And Keith: Run a mile. That's insane. Lou Fratto: ⁓ and then she realized, okay, I gotta take care of my own health now. I've neglected it for a long time. And I and she was scared to death. She has a really bad hip. Her hip is very arthritis arthritic and painful. And she's afraid, lives by herself now, afraid to death of falling. so she ⁓ came in to see me and she said, you know, I I cannot get a hip surgery because I'm allergic to the metal that they put in the prosthetic. So she doesn't have that as an option. Keith: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. god. Lou Fratto: So it's like, okay, our goal is to keep the hip working as well as possible and as painless as possible, ⁓ given the fact that it's got severe arthritis, but also work on her balance. And then, you know, part of all that is getting her as strong as possible. And so a few months after working with her, she had to empty her storage facility. And she was in ⁓ incredibly impressed with herself that she was able to. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: unload the storage facility on her own, including carrying, you know, heavy boxes of the storage facility on her own, which she said she never would have been able to do at really any other decade of her life, because she said her arms were just always really weak. And now she has really strong arms and a strong body. And she didn't start we didn't start working on that till she was in her early eighties. So Keith: Wow, that's awesome. That is one of the things that I like the best about being part of the gym, you know, in the community is we have people that come in for the first time and you can tell. Like some of them have never worked out before. And then they'll tell similar stories, be you know, being a lot younger, but talking about things that they can now do or something that they did that just like. You can see that it just changes their whole mentality about what they're capable of and what they can do. So it's really cool. But to but be able to do that after you're 80, I mean, that's awesome. What a great feeling. That's cool. all right. ⁓ gonna move on to the next segment now because we have to hustle into our rapid fire. This is a new segment we're adding to the podcast. It's called rapid fire. All right. I'm gonna test you. You are in the hot seat. All right, number one. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I'm in the hot seat, sweating. Keith: Best exercise for longevity. Lou Fratto: I would say that ⁓ what whatever it is that gets your body moving that you're going to enjoy enough to do it consistently. Keith: Good answer. So an a a non answer answer. supposed to have the answer. No. Lou Fratto: Did I did I avoid the ⁓ well, you know, I mean it's because what w what gets me going is not gonna get my wife going, that's for sure. So Keith: Sure. Yeah. No, I hear you. All right, cool. Second question. What do you feel like is the most underrated movement habit for supporting longevity? Lou Fratto: Well, you know, I think just little things that you could do, like take the stairs instead of elevators. here's something funny that I noticed the other day. So I was going to the gym to meet my buddy and we were going to do some treadmill work there, right? And I spent five minutes driving through the parking lot trying to park as close to the gym as possible. It's wait, does that make any sense? You know? ⁓ I know, I know. So Keith: ⁓ You should be parking as far away as possible. You should be actually riding your bike to the gym. Lou Fratto: Right, exactly. Exactly. But but so that would be one too. You know, just park a little bit further away than usual. Just try to get your steps in any way that you can. Keith: That's fine. Okay, so the underrated, the underrated ⁓ movements are essentially small things potentially that you could add up over, you know, the course of a day or the course of a week actually do add up over time. So don't necessarily have to think about I've got to dedicate an hour a day or two hours every other day. You can do small things that actually may not even like think about as exercise, but that add up over time. Lou Fratto: Yeah, the guidelines have changed. They used to say that you had to do at least 10 minutes at a time for it to be meaningful, but you don't anymore. That now they just say, just so that it all adds up to, you know, that much time. So just get it in any way that you can. And a lot of the guy the people that I especially ⁓ Dr. J, who was in my book as one of my health heroes, and he's the oldest at ⁓ he's ninety now. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: ⁓ you know, he just is constantly moving. You know, he said he'll come and pick his son in law up from work and if his son in law is still doing some paperwork, he walks, you know, just exercise. He's always trying to exercise and just keep moving. ⁓ Keith: Yeah. All right. Good answer. All right. The third question and last question. What do you think is the most dangerous mindset when it comes to aging? Lou Fratto: ⁓ I would say I'm too old for that. Keith: That's good. Yeah, that's very succinct. So thinking just like we were talking about before, that it's too late or that I'm too old for it. There's lots of things that you can do at lots of advanced ages that even though they might seem not that significant, can be really significant turning things around. All right. Cool. Well, you survived the first rapid fire of rapid fire thrive AF gauntlet. Maybe we'll turn around next time. You can give you can you can shoot the questions at me. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Sounds good. Keith: I get to write the questions. ⁓ right. we are going to wrap up here shortly, but we we are going to add another, try and add another segment to the podcast. And this is one called ⁓ synergistic levers. So idea here, going back to episode one and two, when you introduced the concept of levers, one of the things that you said that stuck out to me was that Lou Fratto: Yeah, there you go. Keith: They don't work by themselves. Oftentimes these are synergistic in nature. So you might be doing an activity that really supports, that probably supports more than one lever at a time. And I'm give an example ⁓ of from life of where I think some of that synergy takes place. And then if you want to do an example, you can do. So I chose ⁓ two that we have done before. So last week was mindset. And this week is exercise and movement. And my story is so I'll try to make it brief. But one of the things that I enjoy doing still outside of the gym is playing volleyball. ⁓ for about the last four or five years, I've put a team together of people at the gym. My wife plays, and play in a sand league recreationally in Piedmont Park in Atlanta ⁓ in the spring and summer. ⁓ And it's really fun. Lou Fratto: Nice. Keith: My wife, I guess, funny story. and I actually met playing sand volleyball here in Atlanta in a sport and social club league when we were in our 20s. So we're back at it. And she still has some of the championship sweatshirts that she won when we were in our 20s in that league. ⁓ sometimes I'll wear them to the game. ⁓ Lou Fratto: Seriously. You got you gotta wear one of those, wear that the next podcast. Wanna see it. Keith: All right. Yeah. It's getting a little warmer for sweatshirts, but I'll I'll see what I can do. going back to the levers. So when I started ⁓ like around the first of the year, one of the that I wanted to do as a goal was work on my vertical jumping because that was one area of the game that I really enjoy is blocking and hitting. It's the funnest part of the game. And so I decided I was going to try and improve my box jumps in the gym. and go back to I had been scaling to a 20 inch box. Usually the the the height for men is is listed as 24 inches. And I'd been doing 20 and 18. I said I'm gonna really give it a shot and go back to 24. So I started doing that at the beginning of the year. And so I did that for a little while and then realized that my knees were starting to ache, especially when we were doing box jumpovers and I was trying to do that pivot at the top on the taller box. And so where the mindset comes in is I revisited that goal that I had and tried to figure out was it really worth it? and came to the conclusion that no, it's not the potential that I might gain half an inch or an inch in my vertical leap. Lou Fratto: ⁓ no. Keith: at the expense of possibly being in pain, stupid. So the mindset piece of it is being to reevaluate a goal and step back from it and say, like, what are you really getting out of this? What sh you feel you should be, or should is it worth it? so what I did is I changed, I went back to using a smaller box. I've even gone to doing step overs instead of box jump overs. We did Lou Fratto: Okay. Keith: Box jump overs this week and I did step overs, my knees feel fine. I feel like I'm still getting plenty of a workout. And I can also that to change the way I'm thinking about this volleyball league because it's recreational. It's not that important. I can change my lane to be more of a support player. I can set, I can, you know, do other things on the court. I don't have to be the one, you know, that thinks he's going to, you know, spike it. Yeah. Every time. Even though I want to be. Lou Fratto: Spike it. Yeah. Keith: Even though I want to be. So that's my story about ⁓ synergy between a couple of levers that we've been talking about. That's very reasonable for me. So Lou Fratto: I like it. That's good. You know, you could always do what what ⁓ we used to do in college and that is just to lower the net a little bit. Keith: the nuts at the courts at at the park are not that great. So depending on which one you get or what, you know, time of the year it is, it can be pretty saggy anyway. But yeah. Yeah, we need that for it. But Lou Fratto: Yeah. Sagging down. That's fun. Well, I don't have anything as entertaining as that. Mine is just kind of what I was thinking about, just generic. It's like when I exercise, I tend to sleep better. And then when I sleep better, I don't crave the junk food as much and I can think better and I do better at work. ⁓ you know, so it's just just something simple as that. You know, and well, ⁓ honestly though, I've been exercising since I was And reason being because I figured out at an early age that wow, I feel so much better when I work out. Keith: Yep. Yeah. Lou Fratto: I just, especially here, I just feel so much better up here. It's like it releases whatever steam is built up in the in the ⁓ tea kettle. And I and I just feel so much better. And yeah, the being stronger and all that stuff is is great as well. But mainly this is what keeps me coming back because I feel so much better when I work out. I've never, my buddy and I talk about this, you know, you drag yourself to the gym some days because you don't feel like it. But I've never, ever regretted doing a workout. Keith: Yeah. Mm hmm. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Lou Fratto: I always am so glad I did it 'cause I feel so much better. Keith: Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. All right. Well, cool. I think that's it. I think that's where we're gonna end it. we will put a link to your book, which I forgot to mention in the beginning, which is called Thrive. ⁓ And ⁓ there'll be a link to that in all of our ⁓ descriptions and podcasts. So look that up. it's a good read. I highly recommend it. ⁓ Lou Fratto: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Me too. And in the future, is it worth saying in the future we're gonna have a website ⁓ and also at a sub stack of site that people will be able to Keith: Help you well. Buy the book. ⁓ yeah, remember. Lou Fratto: kind of link up with us and can can you talk a little bit about the what the sub stack is gonna feature? Ooh, okay. Keith: I'm gonna hold that in reserve. I wanna do a bonus. I wanna do a bonus episode just about the substack when it's ready to launch. But I will say that the website is coming soon. And if it is up before this episode goes out, I'll add a link to the website in the ⁓ podcast description as well. And then we'll talk about it on the on the next thing as well. So yeah, good stuff coming soon. Hopefully, if I can if I can get it to work. All right. Are we gonna try our new sign off? Lou Fratto: Nice. Okay. Beautiful. Awesome. Sounds good. I forget it already. What is it? Be be brave. Keith: Ha ha ha. No? No? All right, I'll do the first line. Until next time. Lou Fratto: Forget it. I totally forget. I'm drawing a blank. I like the one is whether you think you're old or whether you think you're young, you're right. I forgot to I forgot to study it before the this episode. Keith: Mm. All right. Let's use that. That's all right. I'm cheating. I have it right in front of me. whether you think you're old or whether you think you're young, you're right. Let's leave it at that. Lou Fratto: Yeah, no, because Perfect. Keith: All right. Thanks, Lou. Appreciate it. And we will talk again next time.