Latest / Sharp Strategies Sweet Success / #73 - Winning SEO & Review Strategies for Law Firms in 2026 with Julia Hensel

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#73 - Winning SEO & Review Strategies for Law Firms in 2026 with Julia Hensel · Sharp Strategies Sweet Success

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  The biggest places where I see firms struggle is having a
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  really clear process
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  SPEAKER_00: around getting reviews.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you need to know exactly when you're requesting the review.
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  Some firms do it actually just after their first consultation
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  with someone.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because if you wait,
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  it's a nice thought to think you'll capture the review after
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  they have the big
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  SPEAKER_00: check.
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  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times that's just forgotten in the process.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sharp Strategies, Sweet Success.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone and welcome.
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  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to Sharp Strategies, Sweet Success.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Tiffany Swedensky.
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  SPEAKER_01: And today I am here with Julia Hensel.
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  We had this podcast scheduled twice last week and had to
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  reschedule and then
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  SPEAKER_01: finally getting a chance to meet up today.
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  So I'll go ahead and turn it over to Julia and let her finish
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  out her introduction.
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  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm good to see you, Tiffany.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm Julia Hensel.
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  I'm the CEO of Lexigate,
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  as well as a sister company called Repspert that we recently
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  acquired.
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  SPEAKER_00: Lexigate does SEO for law firms,
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  SPEAKER_00: so trying to get law firms' websites more visible in organic search.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then Repspert is a one-star review removal company.
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  SPEAKER_00: So we help get down those sticky,
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  SPEAKER_00: difficult,
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  SPEAKER_00: stubborn one-star reviews that a lot of law firms cannot stand.
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  SPEAKER_01: So coming into the legal space as a,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: as an SEO company,
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  SPEAKER_01: what are you learning,
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  SPEAKER_01: discovering that maybe you didn't know going in beforehand?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  the world of legal SEO is fascinating and definitely one of the
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  most competitive
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  SPEAKER_00: areas for SEO.
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  SPEAKER_00: Personal injury,
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  SPEAKER_00: of course,
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  being the most competitive within all the different legal
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  disciplines just because
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  SPEAKER_00: of the search volume and the value of getting those cases.
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  SPEAKER_00: So
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  It's really fun to be in an area where you really have to be at
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  the tip of the
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  SPEAKER_00: spear as far as SEO best practices.
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  So a lot of what we're focusing on right now is not only how do
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  we get folks
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  SPEAKER_00: visible in Google search results,
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  SPEAKER_00: but also how do we create strategies
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  SPEAKER_00: strategies that are sustainable as search continues to shift.
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  SPEAKER_00: And more and more people aren't just always opening Google,
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  SPEAKER_00: but they're opening ChatGPT or I'm obsessed personally with Claude.
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  But anyway,
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  ChatGPT,
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  Gemini,
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  Claude,
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  all the other AI tools that are out there.
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  So I think that's what a lot of our focus on learning has been
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  on recently is how
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  SPEAKER_00: do we continue to evolve our strategies to keep up with those platforms.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  I was thinking about this the other day because I came from a
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  background where I
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  SPEAKER_01: was a marketer at a law firm before I was a fractional CMO.
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  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting is that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  a lot of small law firms will hire that solo in-house marketer
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  and that solo
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  SPEAKER_01: in-house marketer might have a marketing background,
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  but they're stepping into an environment where they don't
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  realize how competitive
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  SPEAKER_01: it is.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like they don't realize how competitive...
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  law firm personal injury marketing is and it's just interesting
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  to think about all
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  these law firms that have like bestowed that kind of marketing
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  job on somebody who
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  has like almost no idea what they're getting into and it's kind
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  of funny and
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  speaking of ai search because this is also something i was
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  thinking of but how
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  people use ai is so widely varied something i realize i'm kind
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  of not a part of is
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  SPEAKER_01: how many people are using like voice ai
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  SPEAKER_01: I just don't do that.
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  SPEAKER_01: I never really even like Siri or anything like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: But you know, people aren't just like using chat GPT, like a chat bot.
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  SPEAKER_01: They're talking to it,
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  incorporating it in their lives and tools that they use are now
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  using AI and they
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  SPEAKER_01: had no idea.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's so bizarre.
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  SPEAKER_01: It is like a quickly shifting landscape.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's so crazy.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's cool.
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  SPEAKER_00: All the new tools that are out there.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  it's beyond what people kind of originally were using chat GPT
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  of just chatting
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  SPEAKER_00: back and forth through typing.
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  SPEAKER_00: I actually use the audio part of chat GPT a lot.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's as I'm getting older,
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  SPEAKER_00: my fingers get tired or something,
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  but I use I'll talk to it just like you're on a phone call with
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  a friend and it's
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  SPEAKER_00: giving you advice.
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  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, it's fun to see what all is out there.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: So like what kind of new,
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: you don't have to give everything away,
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  but like what kind of new strategies should law firms be
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  considering as they want
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  SPEAKER_01: to remain competitive and like AGO or AEO or what do you call it?
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  SPEAKER_01: What's the acronym?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, there are so many different three-letter acronyms.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's like we all need to align on one acronym because I hear AIO, GEO.
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  Anyway,
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  there's so many for essentially the same concept and I don't
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  have a preferred acronym.
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  SPEAKER_00: But the good news for lawyers is there is a ton of overlap.
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  between what drove visibility in traditional Google search and
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  then what will drive
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  SPEAKER_00: visibility in ChatGPT and the LLMs,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is great news because Google is still for transactional searches,
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  SPEAKER_00: like someone searching for personal injury lawyer,
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  SPEAKER_00: Tallahassee.
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  Google is still 210 times the volume of the AI tools of ChatGPT
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  and then all the
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  SPEAKER_00: other tools are less than that.
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  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I saw this funny meme the other day that it's like...
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  a marketer focusing their attention and they're focusing all
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  their attention and
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  they're in a swimming pool and they're focusing all their
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  attention on the new
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  SPEAKER_00: child,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is the LLM search,
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  whereas where the Google search is like drowning and Bing is at
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  the absolute bottom
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  SPEAKER_00: of the ocean.
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  SPEAKER_00: But anyway,
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  SPEAKER_00: all that to be said,
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  even the good news is that you are able to use similar
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  strategies for both,
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  which means you don't need to pick which child to save in the
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  drowning pool between
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  SPEAKER_00: ChatGPT and Google.
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  So a lot of the things that were kind of already best practice
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  as far as having
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  really strong localized content on your website does also
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  improve your visibility
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  SPEAKER_00: in ChatGPT.
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  SPEAKER_00: That being said,
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  there are some new strategies that we are kind of doubling down
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  on that are kind of
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  SPEAKER_00: more focused on how do you get visibility in the LLMs.
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  SPEAKER_00: So one of those, for example, is branded mentions.
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  SPEAKER_00: So if you think about it,
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  SPEAKER_00: ChatGPT is a large language model,
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  SPEAKER_00: which means that it is generating words based on probability patterns,
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  SPEAKER_00: based on the other words previous in the sentence.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so what that means is that if your brand
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  So your law firm name is mentioned throughout the internet
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  ether many times in
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  SPEAKER_00: context of the terms that you're trying to be visible for,
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  SPEAKER_00: like car accident lawyer,
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  SPEAKER_00: Tallahassee.
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  When those terms then are typed into the LLM and is trying to
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  form language as far
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  SPEAKER_00: as a response,
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  your brand is more likely to be mentioned if it's mentioned
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  more frequently
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  SPEAKER_00: throughout the internet.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so what we're working on is intentionally building up those,
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  SPEAKER_00: what we're calling the branded mentions.
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  SPEAKER_00: In the past,
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  SPEAKER_00: folks familiar with SEO are probably familiar with link building,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is still important.
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  But now what's cool is that these branded mentions can be
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  important and helpful,
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  SPEAKER_00: even if they don't have a link to your website,
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  because these tools are smart enough to pick up on the language
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  and the language
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  SPEAKER_00: patterns.
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  SPEAKER_00: So that's just one example of kind of a...
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  a yes and to the old strategy that we are now kind of building
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  on top of what we
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  SPEAKER_00: were previously doing for the Google visibility.
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  So I've heard a lot about how directories play a part in how
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  you show up for AI search.
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  Can you tell me a little bit more about that or like what your,
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  what your all's take on that is?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, completely agree.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of goes back to what I was just talking about.
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  SPEAKER_00: As far as Brandon mentioned,
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  directories are a good opportunity for having your brand
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  mentioned in the context
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  SPEAKER_00: of firms that serve different areas.
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  SPEAKER_00: But then we also see LLMs pull from directories a lot as sources.
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  SPEAKER_00: So one thing we do for our clients is called an AI knowledge audit,
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  where we look at ChatGPT and we ask it a series of questions of
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  what it knows and
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  SPEAKER_00: doesn't know about your firm and your competitors.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we find that it's often drawing information from directories,
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  even obscure directories that have not made it to the first
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  page of Google for 20
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  SPEAKER_00: years.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it's pulling a lot from that.
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  SPEAKER_00: One interesting example is I've even seen it pull hours from
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  SPEAKER_00: from people's directory listings, like their hours of operation.
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  So a lot of law firms work really hard to make sure their
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  Google hours are 24 seven.
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  SPEAKER_00: Then you type into chat GPT and you look up the firm and it says closed.
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  And we've had this in a few instances and we've asked where
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  it's pulling those
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  SPEAKER_00: hours from and it was getting them from their fine law profile,
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  SPEAKER_00: which said their hours were eight to five.
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  SPEAKER_00: So anyway,
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  as annoying as it is to get things really cleaned up and
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  consistent across all the
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  SPEAKER_00: directories,
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  SPEAKER_00: I do think it's more important now
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  SPEAKER_00: than it ever has been before.
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  SPEAKER_01: As somebody managing the in-house marketing teams,
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  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you it is quite annoying with the directories.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of back and forth emails.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of phone calls in some cases.
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  SPEAKER_01: And nobody really wants to do it.
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  SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to go back and forth with MapQuest or FineLaw.
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  And where a lot of marketers stub their toe is the cost for the
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  premium listings.
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  It's like,
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  well,
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  they won't let us update this or that unless we pay them this
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  or that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the cost seems outrageous because it's like more than a car payment,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: for a lot of people.
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  But that's just kind of the ante to play the game and going
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  back to help personal
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  SPEAKER_01: injury is so competitive.
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  Like you just end up having to spend so much money to make
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  these things work.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's interesting that you brought up that example,
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  SPEAKER_01: because to me,
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  SPEAKER_01: when you think about it,
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  SPEAKER_01: like if I was chat GPT or open AI,
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  like fine law would be a more authoritative source of
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  information about a law firm.
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  Then perhaps Google business,
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  which I think technically you could see is like their
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  competitor.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I can totally see that I could see like a fine law.
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  SPEAKER_01: Avvo Martindale listing with dated information,
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  but nobody wants to update it because you have to go through
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  that administrative
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  SPEAKER_01: nightmare.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's just.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's terrible and whatever at the same time.
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  SPEAKER_01: And something that you mentioned at the very beginning,
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  SPEAKER_01: which we haven't touched on yet,
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  SPEAKER_01: but is kind of near and dear to my heart currently is reviews.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like you, you have a company that'll do review removal.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's like a huge part of local SEO right now.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, tell me a little bit about that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you guys get into review or removal?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  so review removal is a fascinating kind of niche that we've
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  been learning a ton
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  SPEAKER_00: about since we acquired this company.
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  SPEAKER_00: The company is called Repspert, and it's been around since 2020.
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  SPEAKER_00: So they do review removal across all industries, but especially legal.
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  We actually came to know them through Lexigate,
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  working with them for some of our clients.
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  Many of our clients have just gotten really unfair,
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  crazy one-star reviews.
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  SPEAKER_00: For example,
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  we actually have a preschool client that just over the weekend
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  got a one-star
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  SPEAKER_00: review from someone who the text of review said,
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't have kids.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, okay, this is not feedback for our preschool.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is just someone providing an unsolicited one-star review.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so similarly with a lot of our legal clients,
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  the most common one-star review on any law firm's Google
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  business profile is simply
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  SPEAKER_00: they said they wouldn't take my case.
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  which for many lawyers,
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  that's like the responsible,
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  rational thing to do,
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  right?
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  If you cannot serve someone effectively is to turn down the
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  case and then people
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  SPEAKER_00: get upset and leave it as a one-star review.
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  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's not a customer with feedback.
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  And so those are not the types of things that should be
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  reflected on your Google
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  SPEAKER_00: business profile.
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  So what Repsport helps with is essentially making the argument
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  with the platform
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  SPEAKER_00: directly as far as why the review needs to be
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  removed and getting that down because of course why the
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  acquisition made sense is
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  there is so much tie-in between your google business rating and
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  your local seo
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  SPEAKER_00: performance and so the two go hand in hand well
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, for sure.
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  And like anytime you get to a point with a Google business
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  listing where it's been
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  SPEAKER_01: optimized,
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  SPEAKER_01: we've been adding photos,
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  SPEAKER_01: we've been getting reviews,
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  SPEAKER_01: that like more reviews is basically all you can do,
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  SPEAKER_01: like more reviews or more PR or something like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: When you think about it,
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  SPEAKER_01: lawyers,
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  law firms are often working with people at like the worst point
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  in their lives.
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  I'm working with a medical malpractice firm and one of their
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  biggest issues,
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  SPEAKER_01: you said it right there,
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  is that they get negative reviews from people who they've
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  turned down because that
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  SPEAKER_01: person doesn't have a case.
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  SPEAKER_01: They just had like a bad medical outcome.
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  SPEAKER_01: Or in the case of like family law attorneys,
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  SPEAKER_01: nobody likes having to deal with the family law case.
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  Like it's show me the person who loves going to court or family
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  law and I'll show
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  SPEAKER_01: you a crazy person,
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  SPEAKER_01: except the lawyer,
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  SPEAKER_01: I guess.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's an industry where people are just generally don't want to be there.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so why?
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  one-star reviews are common and can sometimes be gained
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  unfairly just because like
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  and also it makes me reflect on all the people who i've talked
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  to and know who say
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  they don't like lawyers and it's like no you probably just got
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  a bad outcome or
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  didn't hear what you wanted to hear and that's not necessarily
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  bad that's just like
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  SPEAKER_01: not what you wanted um
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  But at the same time,
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  like I see firms getting good reviews all the time.
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  SPEAKER_01: I see criminal lawyers getting good reviews,
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  SPEAKER_01: family lawyers getting good reviews,
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  SPEAKER_01: hand over fist.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's not impossible.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you almost have to be like proactive.
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  SPEAKER_01: You have to like combat the bad reviews by getting good reviews.
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  SPEAKER_01: Cause the more good reviews that you have,
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  SPEAKER_01: the more reluctant somebody is to give you like two stars or one star,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know?
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, that kind of went on there, but yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: No, I completely agree with that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you're absolutely right.
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  SPEAKER_00: As far as lawyers see it all,
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  SPEAKER_00: we have a lot of family law clients on the rep side who,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  they get good reviews from their clients and then they get the
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  one stars from like
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  SPEAKER_00: the ex-spouse of whoever is the other party in the divorce case.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, again, it's like they weren't a client in the firm.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is not feedback.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is just like vengeance.
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  And so anyway,
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  we're happy to help in those situations,
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  but completely agree.
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  SPEAKER_00: You can never...
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  SPEAKER_00: review removal, your ways to success, right?
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  Like the best way to continue to build your business is by
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  delivering amazing
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  client experience and having those clients who love you are
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  happy to give five-star
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  SPEAKER_00: reviews.
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  SPEAKER_00: And on that front,
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  SPEAKER_00: what we always recommend,
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  SPEAKER_00: so I'm a big believer that you need genuine,
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  SPEAKER_00: true reviews.
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  SPEAKER_00: I would never promote like purchasing reviews or anything like that.
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  SPEAKER_00: I do think Carmel
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  SPEAKER_00: will get you in the long run.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's just not the right thing to do.
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  But the biggest places where I see firms struggle is having a
• 15:08
  really clear process
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  SPEAKER_00: around getting reviews.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to know exactly when you're requesting the review.
• 15:14
  Some firms do it actually just after their first consultation
• 15:17
  with someone.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you wait,
• 15:19
  it's a nice thought to think you'll capture the review after
• 15:22
  they have the big
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: check.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times that's just forgotten in the process.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when in your process are you requesting the review?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Who is requesting the review?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: If everyone's supposed to get reviews, no one gets reviews, right?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So is it the case manager?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the paralegal?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the lawyer?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Who's supposed to be requesting the review?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then making sure there's proper tracking and incentives.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I would even consider like a scorecard for your team where it's like,
• 15:49
  this is how many reviews we got on each location last week and
• 15:52
  then celebrate.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously you can't pay reviewers,
• 15:56
  but you can incentivize your team to make sure that they're
• 15:59
  getting reviews.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So those would be my tips of advice.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And back in November,
• 16:06
  I talked to my mastermind group about reviews because they're
• 16:11
  just so important.
• 16:12
  And the thing that when I was trying to put together like a
• 16:16
  guide for like,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: how do law firms get reviews?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I've been in the situation where I've seen law firms like do it.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen law firms consistently get reviews.
• 16:25
  over and over and it's a combination of things but the big
• 16:28
  thing that most people
• 16:29
  miss is it's coaching and training your team like you said
• 16:33
  because you can do
• 16:35
  employee review contests those work great that's kind of part
• 16:38
  of it too but like
• 16:40
  your team needs to know the best times to ask for reviews
• 16:44
  otherwise they're just
• 16:45
  going to wait to the end they need to know what to say how to
• 16:48
  say it and like keep
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: in mind like your employees like aren't
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: copywriters by trade or probably not even salespeople by trade.
• 16:58
  So like they need that coaching because it's an awkward request
• 17:03
  if you don't know how to ask.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:05
  And so like,
• 17:05
  I talk to the mastermind group about it and just talk to my
• 17:10
  clients about it.
• 17:11
  Like there needs to be specific points where you request
• 17:15
  reviews and there are
• 17:17
  effective ways to ask for reviews and there are less effective
• 17:20
  ways to ask for
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: reviews.
• 17:22
  And it's more of a coaching thing instead of like a system or
• 17:26
  an automation or whatever.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 17:29
  And yeah,
• 17:29
  I think how do you make it easy for the person giving the
• 17:32
  review?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of people just say,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: leave us a review,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: but making sure it's the link that goes directly to the,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: where they just have to click the number of stars and they're good.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point of like,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: it's not always about automation,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: but sometimes firms have technology that they're using,
• 17:46
  like if they're already using case status or HONA or something
• 17:49
  on the client
• 17:50
  experience side that can help them kind of make sure they're
• 17:54
  delivering this
• 17:54
  message to the clients in the most easy way for the client to
• 17:57
  receive an action.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I love both those tools.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and it's practically almost essential.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: cause that's one of the bigger,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I could go,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I could just go off on a rant,
• 18:08
  but like keeping the client informed about where the law firm
• 18:12
  is at with their
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: case,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: what to expect next.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Both those tools help out with that tremendously.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like, why wouldn't you?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So like,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a trend in how law firms are getting reviews these days?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Are you seeing certain types of reviews come through,
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: certain types of reviews get removed,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: anything like that?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there have been some weird nuances with Google recently.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Google has been cracking down on fake reviews,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: which is good,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: but in its efforts to do that,
• 18:47
  we have seen some weird patterns where they've been removing
• 18:50
  even genuine reviews.
• 18:51
  reviews which is really sad to see because i know how hard
• 18:54
  firms work to get those
• 18:55
  but what we see they're not like a perfect pattern but when we
• 18:59
  see this happen the
• 19:00
  most frequently it's when firms get reviews in patterns and
• 19:06
  quantities that are
• 19:07
  different than their historical pattern so i would say if
• 19:10
  you're wanting to put
• 19:11
  more emphasis on reviews that is wonderful but maybe do it in a
• 19:16
  like a linear
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: fashion to kind of ease your way into getting more reviews
• 19:20
  Some firms will have me get one review a month and then all of
• 19:24
  a sudden they do
• 19:25
  some sort of backpack giveaway and they ask everyone at the
• 19:27
  event to leave a
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: review.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: They get 20 reviews.
• 19:30
  Google noticed that as suspicious activity and thinks you just
• 19:33
  purchased a bulk
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: load of reviews and then those will often get taken down.
• 19:38
  So just trying to be really gradual with the improvements that
• 19:41
  you make so that you
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: don't get into any sort of Google spam trap is important.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: and also like linear review growth.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think people forget,
• 19:52
  like people forget to be objective about the strategies and the
• 19:55
  marketing that
• 19:56
  they're trying to implement because what looks suspicious to
• 19:59
  you as a customer,
• 20:00
  like somebody getting 20 reviews within the span of three
• 20:04
  months and then nothing
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: for the last like six,
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: like.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you saw that you would probably give you pause.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and Google is looking at these things objectively too.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to like,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think how your website ranks,
• 20:19
  Google cares more about what other people say about your brand
• 20:23
  and your website and
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: what you say about it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just like good old fashioned research, like college research.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing like a paper or something.
• 20:31
  Don't rely on the primary or the don't rely on the primary
• 20:35
  source,
• 20:35
  secondary source.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: You need a multiple points of view, blah, blah, blah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people forget that.
• 20:41
  And like what looks natural,
• 20:43
  what looks real and authentic to our customers.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Google also pays attention to that stuff.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 20:49
  Maybe just building off of that super briefly on the kind of
• 20:52
  tying together what we
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: mentioned about reviews and what we mentioned on AI.
• 20:55
  Another thing that's important is making sure your reviews are
• 20:59
  on your website in a
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: way that the LLMs can lead it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: cause what you just mentioned,
• 21:06
  Tiffany kind of sparked that for me because you said like
• 21:08
  Google looks at what do
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: others say about your website and what do they say about your firm?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And essentially the LLMs we are finding are not relevant
• 21:18
  able to really process the reviews on your google business
• 21:22
  profile and what i mean
• 21:23
  by that is like if you say what are the reviews for xyz law
• 21:28
  firm it's going to spit
• 21:29
  out a bunch of information and it is never a link to your
• 21:33
  google business profile
• 21:34
  and it's never pulling the reviews from your google business
• 21:36
  profile it will tell
• 21:37
  you your yelp reviews your avvo reviews your fine law but it's
• 21:40
  not scraping your
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: google business profile reviews
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important to have your reviews on your website,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: the positive GBP reviews that you worked hard to get.
• 21:49
  And there's a very specific way you need to do it because many
• 21:52
  people just have
• 21:53
  some sort of widget plugin on their website that pulls in the
• 21:56
  GBP reviews,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: but that's usually some sort of like backend WordPress,
• 22:01
  JavaScript plugin or whatever that the LLM is not actually
• 22:05
  reading the text of the
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: review because of the way it's just reading like the plugin code.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so having actually...
• 22:12
  like putting the reviews onto your website as texts or whatnot
• 22:17
  on the site is
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: important to make sure those are readable by the LLMs.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple months ago,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: maybe even a year ago,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: there was a time when like,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: if you did some sort of search that was like,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: personal injury attorney near me.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: ChatGPT's results would link to Google Business.
• 22:37
  And it looked like it was essentially pulling the top three
• 22:39
  rankings from Google Business.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 22:43
  I thought that was interesting because that meant probably a
• 22:46
  good bit of traffic
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: coming from Google Business was actually originating from ChatGPT.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then pretty quickly, I saw that wasn't happening anymore.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it made sense if I was open AI,
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: that's a bit like Google kind of eating your lunch,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: you're technically a competing tool.
• 23:02
  But like,
• 23:04
  you took that a step further for me,
• 23:05
  because I didn't think about it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: But like chat TVT probably gave us AI the directive to
• 23:10
  like not use google properties in their ranking at all and i
• 23:17
  guess i just hadn't
• 23:18
  thought of that and then again like something we've already
• 23:21
  said before it goes
• 23:22
  back to like the good old-fashioned principles and putting
• 23:25
  testimonials on your
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: site reviews of all forms not just like google reviews but like
• 23:32
  know the note that your customer sent you saying thank you so
• 23:35
  much or anything like
• 23:37
  videos testimonials yeah so exactly and it kind of comes back
• 23:41
  to this concept of a
• 23:42
  lot of what was traditional seo best practices right of
• 23:45
  strengthening obviously the
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: google algorithm is still eeat experience expertise authoritativeness
• 23:49
  trustworthiness and having things like reviews and testimonials
• 23:53
  strengthen those
• 23:54
  elements so it's important traditionally but now it's kind of
• 23:57
  doubled down
• 23:58
  important because yeah we've done probably like over 50 of
• 24:02
  these ai visibility
• 24:03
  audits and it pulls a lot of information on your firm when you
• 24:07
  ask it to find
• 24:08
  reviews but it is i've never seen even one that cites the
• 24:12
  google business profile
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: as the source of the review data
• 24:16
  So do you have like a proprietary tool that you use to get like
• 24:21
  audit information
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: on a brand or are you using like something that's publicly available?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like how are you approaching that?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: For the AI audits?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wish there was an amazing tool out there.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I have been very underwhelmed.
• 24:35
  We've tested both the SEMrush and Ahrefs tools that are being
• 24:39
  created and a few
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: other kind of ones that we've seen.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 24:43
  I have not found any that are well fit for purpose for what a
• 24:47
  law firm needs to know.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the way we actually do it is manual.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we ask ChatGPT a series of questions about your firm.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And each time we obviously clear,
• 24:58
  we do it all in the like incognito ChatGPT so that it's not
• 25:01
  biasing its history
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: with our own past searches on the firm.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then once we ask it all the questions about your firm,
• 25:09
  then we look more broadly for visibility by just asking it the
• 25:12
  key transactional
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: search terms that you want to appear for.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So car accident, lawyer, Houston, et cetera.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then we look at what firms appear if your firm is in the list.
• 25:23
  And then if you're not in the list or if you're not at the top
• 25:25
  of the list,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: we ask it,
• 25:27
  what did you consider when putting this list together and why
• 25:30
  didn't you include
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: XYZ firm?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: it's not perfect in that obviously every time you search ChatGPT,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to get something different.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: LLMs by nature always produce a lot more variation in their responses,
• 25:43
  but even doing it once helps with understanding what are the
• 25:47
  different sources that
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: it's drawing from in the decisions that it makes.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we found to be the most effective way.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: even if you don't like audit your own brand,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: like if you just try out like a few searches,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: like personal injury attorney,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: New York City,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: or personal injury attorney,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Cheyenne,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wyoming,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to see like the sources that ChowGBT,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Claude,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: perplexity are pulling from.
• 26:15
  And this is why it always links back to traditional SEO because
• 26:19
  guess what?
• 26:19
  Those tools use sites that have a high domain authority within
• 26:24
  the legal sphere.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And those happen to be,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: no low,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:28
  and all those big directory sites and also just other like
• 26:33
  local news sources.
• 26:35
  Imagine if there was just a bunch of local news stories about
• 26:38
  you and somebody went
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: to chat GPT and said,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: who are the personal injury attorneys in Cheyenne,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wyoming,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: and you're just always on the news in Cheyenne,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wyoming.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is,
• 26:49
  it is very likely that it's going to list you first because
• 26:52
  you're the most
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: prominent on the internet.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I completely agree with that.
• 26:56
  I think doubling down on what lawyers do in their local
• 27:00
  community is more important
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: now than ever.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Doing it,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: obviously getting visibility on those sites,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: having a community page on your own website,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important for a few reasons.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: One, because it sends local signals both to Google and to the LLMs.
• 27:15
  But two,
• 27:15
  I also think it creates a more defensible positioning for a lot
• 27:20
  of firms.
• 27:20
  I know a lot of firms are worried about all the PE activity
• 27:24
  that's going on as far
• 27:25
  as firms getting bought up and more of like a firm's kind of
• 27:29
  going national,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's on their own or through some sort of PE roll up,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: as well as just the already big national players that are out there,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Morgans and Morgans of the world.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that what
• 27:40
  law firms do in their local community is often most difficult
• 27:45
  for those national
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: firms to replicate.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it creates a more true competitive edge for you.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because you'll never outspend them, right?
• 27:53
  Or it's just not a cost efficient strategy to try to outspend
• 27:57
  them,
• 27:57
  right?
• 27:57
  So I think this is a smarter strategy for these more small to
• 28:01
  midsize firms.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess we're getting up kind of close to the end of the time.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I need to go through into my last typical few questions.
• 28:10
  So was there anything that we didn't get to that you were
• 28:14
  thinking of talking
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: about,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: or you wanted to talk about briefly?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the only other thing is we do get questions of like,
• 28:21
  does my website and like the visuals of my website still matter
• 28:26
  in the world of now
• 28:27
  there's more zero click searches is what a lot of folks are
• 28:30
  talking about.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: What we found is I would say,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: look at your own Google Analytics,
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: but you are still getting people to your website,
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: even if there are more zero click searches.
• 28:41
  And what I always suggest is a simple exercise is firms go to
• 28:44
  their website as if
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: they've never been
• 28:46
  to their firm's website before and just try to navigate around
• 28:50
  as a user and take
• 28:52
  the key actions of like making a phone call or submitting a
• 28:55
  form and just making
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: sure that that's as easy for everyone as possible.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I feel like that's where people have a lot of low hanging fruit of
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: it shocks me,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: but probably 15% of the clients we start working with,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: there is some critical error in their process,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like their intake form just doesn't submit, right?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so fixing some of those kind of clean,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: low-hanging fruit on the UX side can help boost your cases.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one lesson I'm going to teach lawyers in 2026.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the year,
• 29:27
  everyone's going to be aware of this is that your website is
• 29:30
  more than just,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: how it ranks in Google.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's the linchpin, the hub of your marketing, if you will.
• 29:37
  I feel like I'm actually really happy that search traffic is
• 29:40
  declining because now
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: we can begin to ask broader questions of like,
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: what can be done with our website?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's not just to please Google or whatever.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 29:49
  and never forget that like humans are really apt or really
• 29:54
  prone to like backwards
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: justification of their decisions.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I've told this story before and I'm bored with it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not going to tell it again,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: but you know,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I made a purchase like last year where,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I talked to a nutrition coach.
• 30:10
  got to know them on social media,
• 30:13
  went to their Linktree,
• 30:14
  booked a consult,
• 30:15
  did a Zoom.
• 30:16
  And only when I had their service agreement in hand,
• 30:18
  did I even look at their website.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what probably a lot of people are doing with your law firm.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they call you at their moment of need,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: You close them, you get a fee agreement in their hands.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: They'll go to your website if they haven't already been there.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then also tons of other people are going to visit your website,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: former clients,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: potential clients,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: journalists,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's your brand.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like, you know, I feel like maybe 2026, maybe 2027.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm proclaiming a lot of things here recently.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But like,
• 30:52
  maybe we're going to start getting serious about UX and design
• 30:56
  because I feel like
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of SEO companies kind of shrugged it off as like,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: it's not SEO important.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, it's not.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: But like, also, like,
• 31:04
  a nice website is nice so right and the rising tide lifts all
• 31:08
  boats right like you
• 31:09
  get leads from all kinds of sources that aren't seo right and
• 31:12
  so if you can improve
• 31:13
  the ux and the conversion of your site yes as an seo agency i'm
• 31:17
  glad that helps
• 31:18
  your seo but like your conversion of your leads you got from
• 31:21
  seo but i'm also glad
• 31:23
  that it improves your other lead sources as well and when they
• 31:26
  come to the site and
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: are more likely to convert
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it makes me kind of think about I need to upgrade my website.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do something cute with it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for being a guest, Julia.
• 31:37
  Where do you want people to go look you up,
• 31:40
  learn more about you and your company?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can always connect with me on LinkedIn.
• 31:44
  If you want to connect with me personally,
• 31:46
  I'm Julia Whitrock Hensel on LinkedIn.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then our website as well,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: lexigate.com and repsvert.com are also great places to get in touch.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks so much again.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks everyone for listening.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see everyone next time.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.