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Becoming Anchored S2E4: Trauma Recovery 101 with Alice Stricklin · Becoming Anchored

0:04
Hi everyone.
0:06
Welcome to the Becoming Anchored podcast.
0:09
My name is Laura Dineen.
0:11
I'm your host for today and we have with us the lovely Alice Strickland.
0:16
And so I will definitely let her introduce herself as we go.
0:20
Start chatting about our topic.
0:21
Um, Lauren Jackson is not with us today, but I know that she's with us in spirit.
0:26
So anyway, if you're new to this podcast, this is the Becoming Anchored podcast.
0:31
We are really just here to ride the waves of life with you all.
0:36
Lauren actually had the idea to start this podcast last year and um, I was fully
0:41
on board and so all the different moving pieces we are finally making those come to
0:46
fruition and we're so excited to have you.
0:49
So on this podcast we will be sharing about our real life experiences.
0:54
Lauren and I talk about being moms and working full time and living
0:58
authentically and all the things that really um, our day to day.
1:02
And then we will also be sharing about our lived experiences as therapists.
1:09
And so we have the gift of sitting with clients on a day to day basis.
1:13
And it's, it's truly a gift and it's such sacred work.
1:17
And I know that Alice feels that way as well.
1:20
And so.
1:21
Yeah, if you're new to this podcast, welcome.
1:24
We're so glad that you're here.
1:25
Um, I have a group practice in Brentwood, Tennessee, which is
1:28
just south of Nashville called Anchored Counseling Company.
1:31
If you're in Tennessee, definitely look us up.
1:33
Um, and then I will let Alice share about her group practice as well.
1:37
Um, but this is really quick, just a quick disclaimer.
1:41
This is not therapy.
1:42
And so if you were local to Tennessee, um, Um, we would love to see you
1:47
either at Anchored or Alice's practice.
1:49
And if you're not local, please reach out to a professional that can support you.
1:54
So thanks again for being here.
2:13
Today we are going to be talking about all things trauma.
2:18
And so Alice is just a wonderful person, first and foremost.
2:25
She's a revered trauma therapist, so she's an expert in the field.
2:30
She's been doing this longer than I have, and I really look up to her.
2:34
Um, and I definitely have received amazing support from her over the
2:38
years and so I feel so honored that Alice is taking time out of her morning
2:43
today to come talk to us about the world of trauma and trauma recovery.
2:49
Um, so there's really no better person to learn from on this
2:52
topic than Alice Strickland.
2:54
So, Um, this episode is going to be, I just know it's going to be amazing, so
2:58
thank you, Alice, for your time today.
3:00
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
3:02
I feel like I, I'm having some imposter syndrome, like, oh, I don't know if
3:10
I'm like the expert or I'm the best one to listen to, but I'll do the
3:14
best I can just sharing what I know.
3:17
So, oh my gosh, well y'all can already tell that Alice is super humble.
3:21
Um, so I will say that you're the expert and it's okay, you can just soak that in.
3:25
Um, but you're an expert in my eyes and for anyone listening,
3:29
you know, Alice is an expert and she really does know her stuff.
3:32
About trauma and trauma recovery and a lot of how I practice through
3:37
a trauma informed lens and an attachment based lens is because
3:40
of, um, the learning that I have.
3:44
And all of the training that I've gleaned from Alice.
3:46
I'm super thankful just to have her in my life.
3:49
Um, and, yeah.
3:50
So today we're going to be talking about, um, trauma and trauma recovery.
3:55
And I have a couple different questions that I would just love to answer.
4:00
ask you, Alice, just around the realm of trauma and trauma recovery.
4:04
But before we jump into our topic, I'd love for you to share a little bit
4:08
more about yourself and your practice.
4:11
Yeah, sure.
4:12
I'd love to.
4:14
So my name is Alice Strickland.
4:16
I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist.
4:18
I was trying to add it up the other day, and I think I've been practicing around,
4:24
um, 15 years now, which is really hard.
4:27
Like I kind of, Have this weird thing that happens with me where I think I
4:31
just graduated last year But then it's like but I also feel like I've been at
4:35
it for a long long long time so when I actually sit down and do the math, it's
4:38
interesting, but so I Practice in Lebanon, Tennessee, which is a small little town
4:45
just east of Nashville That's growing constantly growing as Nashville kind
4:49
of expands and moves out of the city limits And I own a group, group practice
4:55
that's named Alice Strickland Counseling.
4:57
It's just real creative.
4:58
Um, it's just kind of how I love it.
5:01
I love it.
5:03
I was like, well, we'll just keep it simple.
5:04
So, um, I started as a private practice actually here.
5:09
And then as I was here working in my community, I just kept
5:13
getting more and more calls that I couldn't meet the needs of.
5:17
And I was having to find referrals and.
5:20
There was a big wait list happening, and so I just felt like it was time
5:24
to start, um, meeting the needs of my community, specifically, and so it
5:30
slowly has grown into a group practice.
5:32
It wasn't necessarily my intention, but it's really been the focus of meeting
5:37
the needs of my community and how that's grown and expanded over the last couple
5:41
years, uh, which has been just a really interesting and fascinating journey.
5:45
all in and of itself that I've loved.
5:48
I've loved the creativity of it and I love always thinking strategically around
5:54
how do I meet the needs of my community in terms of what's not being met.
5:58
So I don't want to redo what's already here.
6:01
I want to offer something that's different, that's not being met.
6:04
And so we focus specifically on a couple of areas.
6:08
We do trauma work.
6:10
Um, so we have several EMDR therapists and we do everything through a
6:14
trauma lens because that's how I kind of teach out of this practice.
6:18
Um, and then we also focus a lot on systems work.
6:22
And so we do work with children and teens and there's not a lot
6:25
of places in this community that do, but we do it specifically
6:30
focused from a systemic standpoint.
6:31
So we do a lot of work with the families as well as parents and caregivers and, you
6:36
know, Um, those that are in charge of the kids and teens that we're working with.
6:40
And then we also have, um, a couple of people that work with couples and that's
6:44
another area in our community that's not necessarily focused on as much.
6:49
And so, so I love our little place.
6:52
I, we have a little house that we practice out of and just feels real homey and
6:56
welcoming, and, um, that's a big, Kind of value of mine that people walk in and
7:02
they just feel safe from the beginning.
7:04
And so we're real intentional about the, the smells and the sounds
7:09
and the sights and everything that happens in our space that it just
7:12
kind of creates that welcoming.
7:14
Uh, invitation into, um, into a journey of vulnerability, you know?
7:20
So, um, and then I also am an EMDR therapist and I've
7:26
been doing EMDR for 15 years.
7:28
And then I've been a consultant of the model for 10 years.
7:32
And then about seven years ago, became a trainer with Personal
7:35
Transformation Institute.
7:37
So a big majority of my career has been focused on EMDR, teaching
7:42
EMDR, training, Um, how to, how to do EMDR, but also, you know, EMDR
7:49
is primarily a trauma based model.
7:51
And so my, my knowledge of trauma comes from all my learning that I've
7:56
done through that model specifically.
7:59
So anything that I kind of talk about today in particular is going to be
8:03
filtered through both the AIP lens, which is the adaptive information processing
8:07
model that's, Founded with the EMDR, but also attachment and the systems
8:13
kind of background that I have as well.
8:15
Yeah, gosh, there's so many things that I just want to ask
8:19
you about today on this episode.
8:21
I feel like we could talk for hours and hours.
8:23
Um, but yeah, I think what you shared, especially about that, like, Hey, what
8:29
needs are not being met in the community?
8:31
I mean, you and I both know that we heal in community and whether
8:36
you're in recovery from an eating disorder, or you're wanting to shift
8:40
your relationship to your anxiety, or you are in recovery from a trauma.
8:44
All of those kind of presentations, we heal best in
8:49
relationship with other people.
8:50
And so I love that you started there because I think that's important
8:54
for anyone listening today is just, if you take away anything, that,
8:58
that is something to take away, um, that we heal best in community
9:02
and in relationship with others.
9:03
And so I love that you started there.
9:06
Um, and yeah, I mean the work that you do around training clinicians
9:11
and providing your expertise.
9:12
It's so important Um, and I know that you have so many different pieces
9:17
that you could talk about regarding trauma And so this is really just
9:21
the tip of the iceberg around today.
9:24
And so if you're interested in looking up more around EMDR or Alice's work,
9:28
definitely do that after this podcast.
9:30
But just in, in all the years you've practices and all the clinician, all
9:34
the years that you have practiced and all the clinicians that you have
9:37
trained, I'm curious, what are some myths that maybe you have seen around
9:44
the trauma itself, and I want to just give you the opportunity to perhaps
9:50
debunk some of those myths today.
9:54
Yeah, I feel like what I want to start talking about is, um, trauma feels
10:01
like a new concept, but it's not new.
10:04
Right.
10:04
So it's studied in, um, for the better part of many, many decades now.
10:11
Uh, however, it's become a buzzword probably in the last decade and
10:16
growing and growing more and more.
10:18
And What can happen with that, and this is what I kind of run into more and
10:22
more, is people will talk about, um, they interchange trauma and PTSD, or PTS.
10:30
And so, kind of confusing that just because you've experienced trauma,
10:35
because the, the truth is, is we've all experienced trauma experiences, and I'll
10:40
kind of break that down here in a moment.
10:42
But we don't all just necessarily develop PTS.
10:47
or PTSD, Post traumatic stress disorder, which right now, those
10:50
are kind of interchangeable terms.
10:52
They've dropped the disorder piece just to make it more accessible for
10:57
people so it's not as shaming and so there's a difference in that.
11:02
So I feel like I want to to talk about that for a moment if that's okay.
11:06
Um, we all Absolutely Yeah.
11:09
So what's real natural, what, let me see, best way to kind of start
11:13
into this conversation would be to talk about how our bodies and
11:18
our brains are actually for us.
11:21
Like our bodies and our brains are designed for our survival.
11:26
And those survival responses are what people refer to as trauma responses.
11:34
And those survival responses are what we commonly hear are
11:38
the fight, flight, or run.
11:42
Collapse and submit, which is this kind of dissociative or
11:45
check out kind of experience.
11:47
And then, and freeze, which is another kind of like response of
11:52
like, um, Everything kind of like all my body's gearing up to run or
11:57
to fight, but it recognizes within nanoseconds that that's not the
12:03
way that I'm going to survive this.
12:04
And so it just kind of freezes where it is, right?
12:08
And so when we have kind of these, these trauma responses, anytime
12:13
our system is moving from into a distressed state, it doesn't even
12:18
have to be a trauma experience like we would think about trauma.
12:22
It can be a high stress situation.
12:26
So let me rabbit trail for a second.
12:29
If we go back, if we go back to like a couple of years ago, four years
12:34
ago, when we were entering into pandemic, everybody was moving into
12:39
stress and high stress situations.
12:43
And some actually moved into trauma type experiences based on their health
12:49
care or whatever their experiences were with the pandemic and with COVID
12:54
and then also what was happening around them in their community.
12:58
So when we go back to that and we reflect, if we just take a moment and
13:01
reflect to the different responses that we were seeing, Both nationally,
13:06
internationally, um, and, and we filter it through this lens of trauma
13:11
responses or survival responses.
13:14
So people became more combative.
13:16
Well, fight, fight response, right, was happening.
13:20
People became more like hoarding, taking things in, right?
13:24
Like kind of that run response and hunkering down, right?
13:29
People started like isolating and cutting off.
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Even kind of checking out right from life.
13:36
So that's that that collapse and submit experience that we are seeing.
13:41
So we saw all those coming out during that time.
13:45
And then we can kind of reflect back and even see how that's exacerbated even in
13:51
our, um, in our community since then.
13:55
And so some ways that we're seeing that show up in our, um, In our world right
14:01
in the counseling world is we're seeing a rise in anxiety disorders, right?
14:07
We're seeing a rise in PTS kind of type symptoms, but not necessarily meeting
14:14
the criterion for The disorder and it, what it is, it's our nervous systems,
14:20
which are for our survival, right?
14:22
Yeah.
14:22
Has been activated and working really, really hard to keep us
14:26
safe and to help us survive.
14:29
And when we have prolonged experiences where we are in situations where
14:35
we have to survive, which that was, that was a two year long process.
14:41
Where we were inundated in our systems, we're constantly in that response
14:46
place, um, the longer we're in it.
14:51
It's like our body and our brains and our nervous systems acclimate.
14:56
Yeah.
14:56
Yeah.
14:57
It stays in there.
15:00
Hmm.
15:01
Yeah.
15:02
Yeah.
15:03
Yeah.
15:03
I mean, that all makes so much sense.
15:05
And yeah, I mean, I think that is an important myth to debunk around just
15:10
because we go through a trauma, right?
15:12
We definitely don't want to invalidate the trauma itself, but that does not
15:15
necessarily mean that we are going to go on to develop post traumatic stress
15:19
disorder or post traumatic stress.
15:21
Yeah, absolutely.
15:23
Yeah.
15:24
And so sometimes people were like, well, what, what, what's the
15:27
difference between someone who develops full PTS and someone who doesn't?
15:32
And what the literature tells us on that is it's around the res, what we call
15:37
resiliency factors or protective factors.
15:42
And so protective factors actually involve community.
15:45
And so our, the, our, our ability to feel safe.
15:50
and seen and heard and connected to other people that are safe for
15:56
us is a huge protective factor.
15:59
So if we've, if we have, so when, when I'm working with folks, if I can hear
16:03
and listen for, is there people in your life that you know are for you?
16:09
That you feel safe that they know, you know, they have your back.
16:12
I'm listening for that.
16:13
That's a big, huge protective factor and or have you ever had that in your life?
16:19
So if I'm listening for if I'm working with someone who maybe they didn't have
16:23
safe homes, but they did have a teacher or a neighbor or someone that they knew.
16:30
Was looking out for them that they knew they could go to as
16:33
a safe person that helped them feel seen, heard, and connected.
16:38
That's a huge protective factor against developing like long
16:42
term or even more severe symptoms of what we're talking about.
16:48
Other protective factors can be, um, like positive thinking.
16:54
Having a level of both a kind of a good combination of realistic
16:59
thinking and optimistic thinking.
17:01
Yeah, like I have the ability to cope with something hard or
17:05
something along those lines.
17:06
Yeah, right.
17:07
Yeah.
17:08
And then another protective factor is the ability to flex or be flexible.
17:13
So to be able to transition, so change is hard.
17:16
Transitions are hard for everybody, but can you eventually adapt to it or
17:21
do you fight it tooth and nail, right?
17:25
So all of those are what we, you know, that and many more, but
17:28
those are all pretty key factors and protective against developing.
17:34
So it may not mean that I don't necessarily have PT, like the,
17:37
the kind of trauma symptoms.
17:40
Right, because maybe I've experienced a big trauma and then I have symptoms
17:47
that kind of come up for me afterwards, but they're not enough to move
17:51
me into a full diagnosis, right?
17:54
Mm-Hmm.
17:55
So what may help me from moving to that full diagnosis is the amount of
17:59
those protective factors that I have.
18:02
in my life that I can then lean on to help me in my healing journey as well.
18:08
I can pull those forward and lean on those a little bit more.
18:12
Yeah.
18:12
Gosh, that's just such rich information, Alice.
18:16
And I just, I'm like just soaking in everything that you're sharing today.
18:20
Thank you so much.
18:22
Um, But back to this, this piece that you shared that really stood out to me is
18:28
this concept that our bodies are for us.
18:32
And you've used that, you've used that language a couple times, right?
18:34
Both in the context of our bodies being for us when we go into a fight,
18:39
flight, freezer, fawn, and then looking for safe people or people in our
18:45
communities that are for us as well.
18:48
And one thing that we see at my practice at Anchored, when people are coming to
18:52
us with an eating disorder presentation or perhaps their loved one has an
18:56
eating disorder, they most likely have trauma in their background as well.
19:00
And we will certainly get to a place of treating the trauma eventually, right?
19:04
We're practicing through a trauma informed lens, but we're working on
19:07
getting those behaviors down first.
19:08
But oftentimes they will express to me or my staff.
19:13
feel like their bodies have, um, betrayed them or abandoned them.
19:18
And I imagine that in your practice you hear that language or more
19:24
verbiage around that that's similar as well in your clients.
19:29
Yeah, I'd love to speak to that.
19:31
So what we see, especially when there's early childhood trauma
19:35
or sexual trauma that's happened.
19:38
So sexual trauma would be sexual violations to the body.
19:43
Incest would be a big one.
19:47
Not so that that's where sexual violations have happened within the
19:50
family or by someone in the home.
19:53
So and sexual violations that happen by strangers or someone that you do
20:00
know but that's not in your home.
20:02
Physical abuse is another one, so violations to the body.
20:06
Um, what can happen is through the trauma experience.
20:11
Remember those trauma symptoms that I said are for you, When someone is
20:16
experiencing a trauma moment like that, their body and their brain is responding
20:22
to help them survive that moment.
20:25
Two things that can come out of those for individuals.
20:29
Sometimes what can come out of that is shame at the, at the way, The, the
20:34
particular trauma response that your body chose to get through that trauma
20:41
experience because there's all there's in our society, there's a ranking on which
20:46
trauma response is better than another.
20:49
Sure.
20:50
And I mean, let me just guess, is it like fighting is, is the perceived best?
20:54
Aggressiveness, fighting back is definitely celebrated more, but
20:58
our brain actually chooses the one that's the most effective for us.
21:03
It's going to choose the response that's going to get us through to
21:09
the other side so that we live.
21:14
And there's no cognitive thinking through this because that part of your brain
21:18
shuts down when trauma is taking place.
21:20
It only goes straight into survival and your brain has, again, nanoseconds
21:24
to decide what does you need, what is yours, what are the, all the cues
21:29
that you're taking in at a rapid fire pace and your brain makes the decision
21:34
for you of what is gonna, the highest probability of survival in that moment.
21:39
So whichever one your brain chose in that moment was exactly right.
21:44
It worked because you're here.
21:47
Yeah.
21:48
That is like such valuable feedback around that.
21:52
Oh, thank you so much for sharing.
21:53
So that's one piece.
21:56
And then when there's pervasive, right, when that happens
21:59
pervasively, especially with incest.
22:03
We'll talk about that for just a moment.
22:05
There's this, this disconnect that has to eventually happen from the body.
22:13
You have to disconnect from the body and it becomes your enemy essentially.
22:19
Yeah.
22:19
And is that just making, I guess you're, and I want you to
22:23
supplement your language, but is that just because of the chronic
22:26
overwhelm state that your body's in?
22:29
Yeah, that's a part of it and also if we think developmentally for
22:33
young children, um, young children for their own survival have to defer
22:39
to an adult for their own survival.
22:43
And so they have to, like somebody has to be the enemy in that situation and
22:48
it can't be the adult because I have to rely on this adult to take care of me.
22:53
So it must be me.
22:56
I must be the one that's wrong or at fault or there's something wrong with me
23:01
because it can't be this other person like from a developmental brain standpoint.
23:07
That's the logic of a child.
23:10
Sure.
23:10
And it gets locked in with those incidences.
23:13
It gets kind of connected into a network, a memory network.
23:19
So that then anytime that memory network kind of gets triggered, even
23:24
as an adult, what comes up then for me is Disconnect from my body, hate
23:29
my body and be angry at myself, right?
23:33
It must be my fault.
23:34
And it could be related to anything.
23:36
I could be I'm on a, I'm doing something at work and I mess up.
23:42
And all of a sudden that triggers this memory network that's got
23:46
stored a long time ago with at that time, developmentally appropriate
23:50
responses, right, for that time period and survival responses.
23:55
But now it's coming up at work, and I just hate myself.
23:59
And I'm not necessarily sure why I'm having this response, right?
24:03
Yeah, this is happening, right?
24:05
Yeah.
24:05
And it's because that memory network is in there from a long, long time
24:10
ago, and it just got activated.
24:14
Yeah.
24:15
Yeah.
24:16
Yeah.
24:16
And that makes sense.
24:17
In EMDR, we talk a lot about, like, the different, kind of, And you
24:20
might have better language than me around this, but like subcategories
24:23
of those negative cognitions.
24:25
So in the EMDR world, for those of you that are listening, you know,
24:28
shorthand for that is NCs, right?
24:30
But I can see from that there would be a lot of, whether it's shame or
24:35
defectiveness or powerlessness or helplessness or lack of feeling safety,
24:41
whether it's safety with myself or safety interpersonally with other human
24:46
beings, I could see that all of those negative cognitions would perhaps be
24:51
instilled after going through either a trauma or that chronic pervasive
24:56
trauma like you've talked about.
24:58
Yes.
24:59
So when we think about, okay, so what role does our history play in our present life?
25:04
Well, it plays a pretty big one in terms of like the experiences that I have with
25:09
other people in my, when I'm a child, my world consists of who's in my home.
25:15
Like, cause that's, that's all I'm around.
25:17
That's, and I don't know more than that, right?
25:20
My world gets a little bit bigger when I go to school.
25:23
And so then my world consists of.
25:25
Um, and so I'm going to talk about the relationships and how I
25:27
am experiencing that world, both in my home and then at school.
25:31
But again, that's the limit of it until I get.
25:35
And so any experiences that I'm having relationally, how I'm treated,
25:39
how I'm seen, if I feel safe.
25:42
Starts informing how I interpret the rest of the world.
25:47
Absolutely.
25:48
And that makes a lot of sense.
25:49
Right?
25:50
Because that is my world.
25:52
So then, as my world gets bigger, if I start having other similar experiences
25:57
that I had in my home experience, then that belief or the way that I see and
26:03
experience the world feels even more true.
26:07
So if I'm in a home that's not necessarily, so maybe it's safe physically
26:13
and sexually, there's good boundaries around that, but I don't necessarily
26:18
feel seen and heard emotionally, right?
26:21
Um, I feel maybe more kind of just, I can kind of, nobody will know what
26:27
I'm doing and care kind of thing.
26:29
I can kind of do my own thing.
26:30
If that's my experience in my home situation, and then in my school
26:35
situation, maybe it's similar.
26:37
Like I, I learned in my home just to kind of be quiet, stay on the outskirts.
26:43
Do my own thing.
26:44
And so I kind of do the same thing at school.
26:46
And so I kind of sit in the back of the classroom and I
26:49
just kind of do my own thing.
26:50
And nobody really pays me.
26:52
Nobody really invites me to play on the playground.
26:54
I just kind of do my own thing, right?
26:57
I'm just kind of there.
26:59
Teachers don't really pay me a ton of attention either.
27:02
Then I'm going to then go into the big world eventually
27:05
with this, this viewpoint.
27:08
That I just need to stay hidden in the background and nobody really cares
27:11
about what I am, who I am, what I see, what I do, how I contribute, right?
27:16
That schema gets created really early on in my world and then I begin to experience
27:22
the rest of my world as the same.
27:25
And what happens, what's real fascinating is because different brain neurons
27:31
weren't activated, like, um, like by being noticed, being seen, then I miss the cues
27:40
that it's actually happening in my world now because I don't recognize them, but
27:46
I more readily recognize being ignored.
27:49
I'm more readily at recognize not being seen.
27:52
Does that make sense?
27:53
A lot of sense.
27:54
Yeah.
27:55
Yeah.
27:55
Thank you so much just for your, um, overflowing wisdom today.
28:01
I feel like I'm learning just talking to you today and I'm like, Oh man,
28:04
I'm going to tuck that in my back pocket for my sessions next week.
28:08
Yeah.
28:09
so much, Alice.
28:10
Switching gears here.
28:11
I would love to kind of end on a, um, really hopeful note and I
28:17
would love for us to talk about.
28:19
Maybe signs that we are healing from our trauma or perhaps some P.
28:24
T.
28:24
S.
28:25
symptoms or maybe you've been diagnosed with P.
28:27
T.
28:27
S.
28:27
D.
28:28
or P.
28:28
T.
28:28
S.
28:29
Um, I would love to hear from you what you look for in your clients, um, or
28:36
perhaps, you know, if you're open to sharing some of your own experience,
28:39
what you look for in health for yourself, for your clients, around
28:43
what it means to heal from our trauma.
28:46
Thank you.
28:47
Yeah.
28:49
Goodness.
28:49
So it feels like a complicating answer just because each person is so unique.
28:56
But, um, let me think about how to maybe do an overview of that.
29:01
Um, I always think about it in terms of, I'm curious about what
29:06
are people's go to trauma responses.
29:09
So maybe we'll start there.
29:11
that they seem to get triggered into when It doesn't necessarily, like
29:16
the situation doesn't warrant it.
29:19
So someone who quickly goes into fight response all the time,
29:22
like they're just combative and quickly triggered into that a lot.
29:25
Or someone who's quickly triggered into disconnect or freeze response.
29:30
So a sign of healing would look like that's calming down and they're
29:36
able to respond in a present moment situation what is appropriate
29:42
to the present moment situation.
29:44
So that would be a sign of healing when there's less of that hyper
29:48
response and more of a Um, an awareness of, oh, like this normally would
29:55
be triggering and I feel present, I feel like I can stay present right
29:59
now and I can just respond to what's happening and not feel attacked or not.
30:04
I can, I can actually feel safe in this moment.
30:08
And not go into a, um, uh, a survival response, right?
30:15
Because when we move into survival response, it's all
30:17
about us and our own survival.
30:20
And so a sign of healing might be someone who is in a situation that is highly
30:26
stressful or distressful, but they seem to be more aware of others in that moment.
30:33
And not aware of others, like, are you dangerous?
30:36
Are you safe?
30:36
But more aware of others in, Oh, I think you're having a hard time right now too.
30:41
Right.
30:43
And so just does that also include the ability to like reach out to others?
30:48
Yeah.
30:51
And then the other pieces, you know, cause we all have our schemas
30:54
that get developed based on our.
30:57
Kind of what we talked about, what we learned in our little worlds
31:00
and the ways that we respond.
31:02
And so, some of our kind of go to responses when we're stressed or
31:06
de stressed or feeling distressed, what we start seeing when Healy's
31:10
happen is, We, we have more options of responding than what we used to.
31:17
So, I'll, an example for myself, um, some of my go to responses
31:24
historically have been, like, my trauma responses are, uh, depending on the
31:28
situation, I can get combative and defensive, or I can just shut down.
31:34
And just completely cut off from whoever I'm talking to in the moment.
31:39
Um, that some call it stonewalling, but whatever, we'll just talk it.
31:44
Hey, I appreciate your vulnerability.
31:46
Thank you.
31:48
But here's what I've, you know, and my own healing journey.
31:51
And I see this with others is as some of that starts calming down, I,
31:56
I have this ability to now to see, Oh, there's other ways that I can.
32:01
Respond in this.
32:02
So like for me, I can recognize, Oh, I'm starting to get activated here.
32:07
I could actually do some breaths for a moment or I can drop my shoulders
32:11
because they feel real tight.
32:13
I might could go for a quick walk just to see if I can help
32:17
my brain settle for a second.
32:19
Before I have this conversation, right, I can, I can tell someone I
32:26
feel myself starting to shut down because I don't feel like I'm being
32:30
heard and so I need a moment to see if I can help settle my nervous system
32:36
because I want to be present for this session for this conversation, right?
32:40
So those are things.
32:41
I now have access and the ability to learn, and I still have my other responses
32:47
because I need my survival responses.
32:50
Sometimes I need to be combative.
32:52
It's important to my survival.
32:56
And I need to shut down because it's a very overstimulating and overwhelming
33:00
situation, and my system needs to do that.
33:03
But I also have these other things that now I can add to my toolbox.
33:08
That I can pull it late.
33:10
Right.
33:10
Yeah.
33:11
Yeah.
33:12
Yeah.
33:12
And since we're, um, being vulnerable on today's episode, my, um, my, I've, I've
33:18
done a couple of different responses when I maybe am in my unhealth and
33:23
I've done a lot of work around this.
33:24
I don't, I don't feel shame sharing this today with you guys.
33:27
But yeah, I mean, I can, in my unhealth go to a fawn response, which for those of you
33:31
listening, that's more of like a people pleasing, um, putting my own needs last.
33:37
I've done a lot of therapy around that.
33:38
I can also do the combat, more of the combative response too.
33:43
Um, and both of those responses are me trying to protect myself.
33:46
And I love this idea of practicing curiosity over shame.
33:51
So language that I will use that's a little different from yours, but
33:55
it sounds like it's kind of getting to the same point is like, Hey, I'm
33:59
sure I'm really trying to regulate.
34:01
Myself right now, or I'm trying to regulate my emotion or I'm
34:04
not quite sure what I'm feeling.
34:06
I need a second And that helps me Get back into my window of tolerance So we
34:11
haven't talked about that language today but I learned from alice this whole idea
34:16
of the window of tolerance and I will almost visualize where I am in my window.
34:21
I'm a very visual learner and visual person and so it helps me really
34:26
hold, um, if you're listening and not watching this episode, it's basically
34:29
essentially two parallel lines.
34:30
And I'll kind of think about, am I slightly out of my window?
34:33
Am I above my window or below my window?
34:35
And that can just be helpful to almost visualize that for myself.
34:39
Um, and really asking myself what I need to get back in my window, that
34:43
second fold piece to not only where am I in my window, but what do I need?
34:47
Like you were talking about, do I need to go take a few
34:51
steps outside in the sunshine?
34:52
Do I need to eat a nourishing, you know, meal.
34:56
Do I need to have a snack?
34:57
Do I need to have a glass of water?
34:58
What, what would help my, my system right now recalibrate, so to speak.
35:03
Yes.
35:04
Yeah, I love that.
35:05
And Dan and that the window of tolerance comes from Dan Siegel's work.
35:09
So if anybody wanted to learn more about window of tolerance, you can
35:12
look up Dan Siegel's work on that.
35:15
Um, and it's just a really great way for all of us to begin to recognize.
35:19
Um, because when we're in our window, we can be present even with stressful things.
35:25
Right.
35:26
But when we're out of our window, we're moving into those survival responses.
35:31
And when we're in survival responses, our brain and our body
35:34
is 100 percent focused on survival.
35:38
and nothing else.
35:40
And it's hard to be relational.
35:43
Yes.
35:43
And we talk a lot about that on this podcast, but really this idea
35:48
of living according to our values.
35:50
I know if I'm in a hypervigilant or hypovigilant state, I'm most
35:54
likely not treating people in a way that's in line with my value system.
36:00
Like you're talking about, right?
36:01
Like I'm not my, best self or, you know, along those lines.
36:06
I'm not living maybe according to my value system.
36:09
So that's a benefit of getting back into our window is we're
36:13
able to have conversations or experiences with other humans that
36:17
are in line with our value system.
36:19
Yes.
36:20
Yes.
36:20
And I want to be clear for anybody that's listening.
36:23
When you are in danger, whatever survival response you're going
36:28
into is absolutely appropriate.
36:31
And you're not, you shouldn't be in your window of tolerance when
36:35
you're in a dangerous situation.
36:38
Right.
36:38
Because like we've talked about, your body is trying to survive and protect
36:41
yourself, and that's a good thing.
36:43
That's exactly right.
36:44
And I want to, I want, I hope we can begin to talk about Celebrating that, right?
36:51
Like, as a c as a culture, as a community, is celebrating the ability to, to
36:58
go, to have those survival responses and to go into them and use them and
37:02
recognize, like, when our body's going into it, something, if it, if it's not
37:07
a dangerous situation I'm in, but my brain and my body's gone into it, then
37:11
that just tells me, oh, there's a memory network that's being triggered here.
37:16
And that creates then a pathway way.
37:19
of healing because something just came to my awareness that let me
37:24
know, Oh, there's something in here that's, that's being stored.
37:27
That's not necessarily helpful to me anymore.
37:31
And it's creating these moments, right?
37:33
It's creating these moments in my present life that, um, where I'm
37:37
reacting to something that's not necessarily, um, what I need to be
37:44
reacting to, if that makes sense.
37:46
Yeah, gosh, it really does.
37:49
One model that we like to use in my practice, and I probably learned this
37:52
from you just to give you the credit for it, but we like to talk about
37:56
surviving, living, and thriving.
37:57
And there's certainly, sometimes that picture, if you will, can help
38:02
clients really pinpoint where they are, and it can inform a treatment
38:05
plan, it can inform a inform our goals.
38:07
And even like as a human today, Laura on this show, there are times in my
38:11
life when I have been more in survival or maybe I've been more living,
38:14
but I haven't really been, um, my best self or thriving, so to speak.
38:19
And so doing that work with a trained therapist that is a trauma informed
38:23
therapist can be really pivotal just in your own journey is asking
38:27
yourself, Hey, what, what does it, what do you do when you're in survival?
38:31
What does your life look like?
38:32
Let's paint a picture of what it could be like to move from survival
38:35
to living and then to thriving.
38:37
And that can inform our goals and what we want for ourselves.
38:40
And that's really hopeful work when we start looking at those things
38:43
together in, in the therapy space.
38:47
So that's just something for you all to maybe think about as, as homework.
38:52
Um, Alice, thank you so much for your time today.
38:55
I am so grateful.
38:57
I know that you have a family and you run a practice and so you're not busy at all.
39:03
Um, but I really appreciate you just taking the time to be on the show today.
39:07
It really means the world.
39:09
Um, how can our listeners find you?
39:12
Yeah.
39:13
So you can go to alicestrickland.
39:15
com.
39:16
Um, and Strickland is spelled S T R I C K L I N.
39:19
I think it'll probably be listed on your podcast here, but, um, alicestrickland.
39:25
com, uh, has information on group practice.
39:29
There's also several trainings that I do throughout the year.
39:32
I have one that's coming out, a webinar that I'm doing at the end of April on how
39:38
to do the EMDR intensives with clients.
39:41
So this is for EMDR trained therapist.
39:44
Uh, it's not posted yet.
39:45
I'm waiting on one more approval for CEs and then it'll get posted, but I've got
39:49
that happening several times this year.
39:52
I also am working on another training on, um, how to, uh, develop
39:57
resources in the first couple of phases of EMDR for complex trauma.
40:02
Um, and then the most, one of my most exciting projects that I'm excited
40:06
about and really working on right now.
40:09
Is I have just in the last couple probably the last two years or so been
40:14
really feeling Such a Passion for helping therapists that are dealing with the
40:22
vicarious trauma from the work that we do with clients And so I'm working right
40:29
now on developing a retreat like half day retreat experiences where clients We're
40:35
working with therapists and bringing them together, or even helpers, just helpers,
40:39
because We see this show up in both in the medical field and helping professions,
40:43
also first responders, also, um, pastors and pastors, uh, in, um, pastoral
40:51
counseling, all of those social workers.
40:54
So, developing a retreat kind of experience where we, you know, can begin
40:59
to recognize those signs and symptoms, but also learn some different tools of
41:04
how to help our systems be able to sit with others, but also, um, let go of
41:11
what is being stored, um, inside of us.
41:16
So that's my, I'm hoping to have that ready to go by this fall, but that's my,
41:21
my other thing to kind of look out for.
41:25
I love that.
41:25
I didn't know you were doing that.
41:26
That's amazing.
41:27
Um, would you like to provide the homework or the affirmation today?
41:34
I would love to just offer to those that are listening that may you find, um,
41:43
compassion for yourself in the journey that you've gone through and the journey
41:49
that you have ahead of And may you take the information that you've heard today
41:56
And begin to listen and be curious, um, through your own story of ways that you
42:04
have been a hero in your own survival.
42:09
And how the symptoms and the things that you may have come up in your
42:12
life have been so actually useful and helpful when you put it in context.
42:22
And may you find, um, healing in, in the act of doing that.
42:30
Yeah.
42:30
So at that, I mean, that's both of the homework and the affirmation
42:33
together, but I love this, this piece around like, may you find healing.
42:37
And then your homework is really just to look at your story and.
42:42
You know, cultivating a sense of curiosity and compassion.
42:45
Gosh, Alice, thank you for your wisdom.
42:47
Thank you for being here today.
42:49
We will certainly include all of your information in the
42:52
show notes and I wish you well.
42:54
Yeah.
42:55
Thank you for having me.