Latest / Thrive A/F (After Forty) / Food Doesn’t Have Morals with Emma Harvie | Thrive A/F Ep. 12
Transcript
- Lou Fratto: Would you say that there's cases where people don't realize how bad they feel until they feel better? Emma Harvie: Yes, I t I tell people this all the time. It should be like my tagline. I think if you are so used to feeling poorly, firstly you don't realize how poorly you feel until you feel better. But for for most of those people it's just like they don't know what it feels like to feel good. So it's hard for them to even imagine what's possible on the other side because they chronically feel so poorly. Keith: Hello and welcome to the Thrive A/F podcast. That's Thrive After Forty. I am one of your hosts, Keith Calleja, and I am one of the owners of CrossFit Terminus in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm here today with two friends. One of them you all should know if you listen. His name's Lou Fratto. Lou, say hello to the audience. Lou Fratto: Hello, I'm Lou. I'm a physical therapist Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: and active longevity specialist and I own Delray Care Physical Therapy down here in Delray Beach, Florida. Keith: Alright, great. Well, Lou, today. This is exciting. We have a guest on the show, and I'm gonna read a little bit of her resume. and it's gonna blow your mind. So, ready? Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: All right, she is a licensed nutritionist, a certified nutrition specialist. She has a master of science degree in human nutrition and functional medicine. She is a former gymnast, a black belt martial artist, collegiate competitive cheerleader, professional figure competitor competitor. She holds a CrossFit L1 credential and a CrossFit weightlifting certificate. Those are only a few highlights. So please welcome to the show. Emma Harvie. Emmy. Emmy. Emma? Emma. Welcome to Thrive A/F Lou Fratto: Hello. Emma Harvie: Hi, thanks so much for having me. Keith: Yeah. Well, what a resume you have. do you want to start off just by telling everybody a little bit more about yourself? Emma Harvie: Yeah, absolutely. I am a lifelong athlete and nutrition aficionado. I grew up in a home where my mom is a well-known functional medicine physician. my dad is an expert in toxicology and ecological health. And so I yes, Keith: Wow. Emma Harvie: my passion for fitness and health has been a lifelong journey. but how I got into nutrition was during my undergrad. I started bodybuilding professionally and realizing how I can manip manipulate my diet to get my body to look a certain way, which led to some years of experience in professional bodybuilding, all natural always. and then from Keith: Peace. Emma Harvie: there I pursued a master's degree in human nutrition and functional medicine and went on to obtain credentialing board certification. And then I've been working with clients through my own nutrition business since then. Keith: That is awesome. What a what a what Lou Fratto: Yeah, that's cool. Keith: a story. I didn't know that part of your backstory. So Emma is a member of CrossFit Terminus and we've worked out a couple of times together. We're not always in the same class, but yeah, I can tell you she's a dynamite athlete. I've I've seen it in action, so knows what she's talking about. What a cool story. Did I also Emma Harvie: Thank you. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: see on your website that you spend some time in Minnesota? Emma Harvie: Yep, so I was born and raised in Duluth, Minnesota. I moved to Atlanta in twenty eighteen with my now husband who works in the film industry and movies and TV. but to this day I have still never spent a summer here. But given how hot it's been this week, I almost shouldn't have come back yet. Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: Very cool. Yeah, I've been to Duluth once. We went up with the Boy Scouts to do a trip in the boundary waters, Emma Harvie: Okay. Keith: Atikoken up there and did a week Emma Harvie: Checks. Keith: canoeing around and then we went to Duluth after on our way back to Minneapolis to fly home. Emma Harvie: I was gonna say if you came in through Minneapolis, you almost certainly have gone through Duluth. So I I definitely I Keith: Yeah, yep. Absolutely. Emma Harvie: feel very grateful to have grown up in Duluth. It's a really amazing community to be born and raised in and the access to the lake and the the nature, it's Keith: Yep. Emma Harvie: like you take it for granted until you leave, but it's pretty special and well that's why I always leave Atlanta in the summertime. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Keith: Yeah. No, it must be great up there. That's when we went on the the canoe trip and it was awesome. It's one Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: of the trips that I would definitely do again. It was so much fun. So beautiful. Emma Harvie: yeah. Mm-hmm. Keith: Like we got out there, we didn't see another soul for a week. You know, they dropped us off with all our stuff and we canoed and camped and we didn't see anybody else until basically we got back to the base camp. So it was awesome. Emma Harvie: Yeah, yeah, it's phenomenal. Keith: All right. also follow-up question. What kind of martial arts do you practice or did you practice? Emma Harvie: yeah, I did mixed martial arts until I was about sixteen. So I had obtained my like full junior black belt. It was mostly taekwondo and karate with some some other forms thrown in there, but mostly those two. Keith: All right. Did you Lou Fratto: Nice. Keith: know that Lou is also a martial artist? Emma Harvie: No, I did not know that. very nice. That's very very trendy these days. Lou Fratto: Yeah, I do so I do jujitsu. So yeah. Yeah, hey, I but I I started when I was forty one, I'm fifty seven now, so I started when it was a little more niche or, you know, crazy to get into it, especially in your forties, but Emma Harvie: For sure. So you really you pioneered jujitsu then. Lou Fratto: No, no, not even. no. No, no. Not quite that I'm not that ancient. Keith: Whoa, shots fired. Lou Fratto: But Emma Harvie: I I mean you started the trend. Keith: That was good. Lou Fratto: No, no, no, not even that. I just you know what? I Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: just I'm a hobbyist. I go, I have fun, I like to challenge myself. Yeah, so I don't try to propose myself as a expert or anything like that, but but I'm a brown belt, Keith: Well Lou Fratto: so been doing it a while and it's Emma Harvie: maybe Yeah. Lou Fratto: it's a definitely a challenge, you know, to try to every decade it gets harder to to do it and still do it at a high level, but yet respect your body, you know. Emma Harvie: For sure. Lou Fratto: So it's a juggling act for sure. Emma Harvie: Awesome. Keith: All right. So I'm envisioning now my promotional mind has come in and Lou, we need to fry fly you up to Atlanta and set up some octagon at Terminus Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: and we can find all the martial artists and have a kumite. Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. Just as long as we just get to sit around and talk about stories. Emma Harvie: You know, I've never done jujitsu, but I was at some spring fest in Candler Park, I don't remember what it's called, last May and I had done a pull up contest and then the jujits jujitsu booth across the street had watched me do that and then gave me some free coupons to come try it out. I've not done so yet. Lou Fratto: Nice. They're like we gotta get her into this, yeah. P Emma Harvie: Yeah. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: Pull-ups are, I would say super valuable, and I've told Keith this, we've talked about it on the podcast before. I absolutely hate pull-ups, but I force myself to do them because it's such a valuable movement to get to be able to get your hands down like this. And, you know, because if you get your if they get your arm up like that, it's vulnerable to all kinds of you're vulnerable to submissions, chokes, arm bars, all that stuff. But if you can keep them down here, it's very Emma Harvie: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: valuable. So I force myself to do pull-ups exactly for that reason, you know. Yeah, it's yeah. Emma Harvie: That's good. Good cross training. Good strength building. Lou Fratto: Very applicable to jujitsu. Emma Harvie: Mm-hmm. Keith: There you go. That's what it's all about. Training for life inside and outside the gym. It's what we do. Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: All right. So one of the things I'd like to start with, is I've never worked with a nutritionist before directly. So I don't really know much about how it works. you know, what kind of people come to you? What are your typical clients like? And how do you work together with people is kind of guess part one and then part two. I think again on your website you mentioned you work with all kinds of different clients to elite level athletes, maybe professional athletes, but also just wondering, do you work with everyday Joe Schmoes like me and Lou? And what's it like and and h how do you work with people? Emma Harvie: Yeah. So I think first I'll state that the majority of my practice is everyday Joe Schmoes who are looking for Keith: Right. Emma Harvie: a better quality of life, more vibrant and resilient well being, treating a certain health concern, addressing gut issues, optimizing immune function. Like it could be anything, right? and so really it's about eating in a way that allows you to achieve the quality of life that you want to have, support your health span and your longevity, which I think longevity and health span have become these trendy terms that are often associated with the elite. Very you know, high, high net worth individuals, but really eating is foundational. Your nutrition is foundational for for longevity and that should be accessible to most people. and so what that looks like to work with me, I think people have this this vision of nutrition professionals as like, you write meal plans, right? you give give a diet prescription. And sure that that is a very small component of what I do, but really it's about helping individuals develop a dietary landscape or a new dietary foundation that they feel like they can stick to and feel their best and eat foods they enjoy and not have to think so much about their nutrition constantly and develop this pattern that is consistent that they can stick to forever. And so I work with people in a very comprehensive way. And so typically what that looks like is we'll start with a very detailed in intake session where I will look at every single aspect of your diet and your lifestyle and your goals and your preferences and your home life and your work schedule and your gut health and your sleep and your stress and your menstrual cycles and your bowel habits. And like there's n there's nothing that a patient could tell me that is TMI. We'll talk about all those nitty gritty details so I can really Best understand how I can help this person in achieving whatever they want to achieve in a realistic and practical way. and also just get to know them because I like to work with people in this way where we are a collaborative team and I'm your support system and helping you feel motivated and empowered in achieving a certain goal or quality of life or whatever it might be. And so we'll work very closely together over typically some months with regular sessions where we're talking about what's going well and what needs adjustment and learning about nutrition principles and making sure that I'm providing all the tools and resources for that person to I guess be able to learn how to fish so they can eat for a lifetime, essentially. And so ideally at the end of our time together, they feel well enough equipped that they don't need to rely on me to tell them what they can do and and feel like they can kind of spread their wings and continue on on their own. Keith: Yeah, I was gonna ask about that because Lou, you know, you've talked about your practice and how you kind of work with with clients. And it sounds, I don't know, to me it sounded a little bit similar in terms of what you try to do to get people back on their feet, but eventually have that same goal of, you know, getting them back to where they were and maybe you know, not to not to put too fine a point out, but they don't to the point where they don't need you anymore. Lou Fratto: Right. Yeah, like if you've done a good job you you kind of make render yourself obsolete, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Keith: Which is an interesting business model. Right. Right. Emma Harvie: Yeah, which which also isn't the best client retention model. But but no, I think I want the client experience to be that they maybe feel the I I don't want them to feel unsure at the beginning, but oftentimes I'll have people that have been damaged by diet culture or restrictive plans or whatever it might be in the past and are really hesitant to make the investment and those are kind of my favorite clients to work with where they leave the process thinking, wow, this is the best money I've ever spent on myself. and it can it can be really life-changing for some folks which for me as a care provider is so meaningful and fulfilling. And so that can be, you know, I have a client who's the 60 meter hurdle world record holder and so playing a role in her lifelong dream coming true is totally meaningful. just the same way as fixing someone's twenty years of chronic diarrhea. It's very meaningful, right? Or or helping somebody reverse a lifetime of I didn't say I didn't say any names. Keith: I thought you said you weren't gonna share that, Emma. It was confidential between me and you. Emma Harvie: or helping somebody reverse twenty years of disordered eating. It it's all equally as meaningful to me because I'm playing a role in delivering a a better quality of life. Lou Fratto: Would you say that there's cases where people don't realize how bad they feel until they feel better? Emma Harvie: Yes, I t I tell people this all the time. It should be like my tagline. I think if you are so used to feeling poorly, firstly you don't realize how poorly you feel until you feel better. But for for most of those people it's just like they don't know what it feels like to feel good. So it's hard for them to even imagine what's possible on the other side because they chronically feel so poorly. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: Wow. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's true for a lot of different aspects. Like we talk about a lot on this podcast, like sleep and nutrition and strength training and everything. But it seems like even I was thinking of sleep specifically until you realize if you're in a really heavy sleep deficit and you know you haven't managed your sleep very well until you start to fix it, you don't realize how fatigued you are and how much it impacts recovery and everything else you can do. So Emma Harvie: I had a Terminus client actually who I won't name her, don't worry. But she came to our second session of our three-month commitment and was somewhat emotional and said, I I had no idea it was possible to have this much stamina and this much energy. And so for Keith: Well. Emma Harvie: someone like that, like I think that's a very good example where if you don't know what's possible, you don't know how life-changing it can be. Keith: Mm-hmm. Yeah, Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: really good point. So one of the things I wanted to ask on your website again, I've I looked a lot at it. I'll quote here, my expertise constitutes a niche at the intersection between functional health and performance nutrition. So I don't want you to give away all your secret sauce, but I wondered if you could expand on that a little bit and talk about Emma Harvie: Yeah. Keith: your approach and what that typical client experience is kind of like. Emma Harvie: So my backbone's in functional medicine, which for people who are not familiar with functional medicine is essentially looking at the root cause of disease and dysfunction and viewing the body as not just each individual system, but recognizing that all body systems are interconnected. Every human being has a biochemical uniqueness, so everyone's needs are different. And so for, you know. Anybody that comes to my practice and has even let's say a gut a gut condition would be a great example. Instead of just trying to treat the symptoms, I'm trying to figure out why do they have that condition in the first place and how do we treat the underlying root cause of that so they can heal. So that and performance nutrition are very different, right? Eating for sports performance is very different than eating for health, but ideally we can marry the two the best that we can. And so what I think that I do very well is in working with athletes, and a big percentage of my clientele are athletes or active individuals, is making sure that in our pursuit of improving their performance, we're also providing a more again, like I already said this, but vibrant and resilient overall well-being, right? I'm supporting immune function, I'm supporting gut health, I'm supporting hormone function, I'm supporting immune system. So I'm always thinking about the whole person and not just this one goal that they want to achieve, where I feel like it'd be very easy for if someone just wants to come and you know lose weight, you can just get them give them macros and send them on their way. But I'm never gonna Keith: Yeah. Emma Harvie: sacrifice your health in the interest of aesthetics. I'm never gonna ignore all of the other elements of your health in the interest of a goal that is kind of physical in in nature. Keith: That's a really good Lou Fratto: That's cool. Keith: distinction. So thank you for kind of expanding on that. because it makes a lot of sense in terms of what you talked about before and sort of that relationship that you are having with your client goes far beyond just creating a meal plan or, you know, telling them what kind of, you know, things they need to add to their diet. So that makes a lot of sense. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's like everything that we talk about too and that let's say I'm talking about something physical for jujitsu and somebody in their forties or whatever, they I'm I tell them everything that they all decisions that they make needs to be filtered through the lens of longevity in this in that hobby. You Emma Harvie: Exactly. Lou Fratto: know, you don't wanna sacrifice your l ability to train for ten to twenty more years just be just because you want to win this tournament coming up. So I like how you do that too. Emma Harvie: Yeah, exactly. It's like e every recommendation that I give is through the lens of this has to be positively contributing to long term health outcomes. Keith: To know. all right. I'm gonna move on and talk a little bit about this. Is a pretty broad question, but Lou and I, you know, we did an episode on nutrition when it was just the two of us, because I don't know if I mentioned this or if Lou mentioned it, but he wrote a book called Thrive, a physical therapist guide to longevity. And he had eight levers in the book that we talked about on individual episodes. Nutrition was one of them, and it was one of our best episodes in terms of performance and how many people watched it, but it was also a topic that is so broad and there's so much to it that we felt like, you know, we talked for a little bit over an hour about it and kind of barely scratched the surface. But one of the things we did talk about is how confusing kind of the food and nutrition landscape is for people trying to figure out how to eat healthy. And kind of at a macro level, I was wondering if you could give the audience an understanding of why you think things are so complex and I guess what are some of the things that they can do to try and make good choices just in general. Yeah, I told you it was a broad question. It's big. Emma Harvie: boy. I think it's so it's so multifaceted. I think one of the most significant reasons why it's so confusing is there's so much noise. And when it comes to nutrition, there isn't one right way. I tell every client that I work with there's no best diet. The best diet for you is the one that allows you to achieve your goals and that you can stick to. And that's different for everybody. So when you're listening to the longevity influencers and you're MAHA moms and your, you know, bodybuilding bros and who whoever else in in the space who number one oftentimes are not qualified to be giving nutrition advice, but then also the advice that they're giving might not be applicable to you as an individual if you either don't have the nutrition knowledge to figure out what is best for you as an individual or you're not working with a qualified professional in the space. How the heck are you gonna know whose advice to take? It's like it's so it's Keith: Yeah. Emma Harvie: so unbelievably confusing. And then I think another thing is the way that we consume social media makes it seem like every reel applies to us, everything that we watch is speaking to us directly, when in reality, like your favorite influencers supplements that are they're recommending have absolutely nothing to do with you. Right? So Keith: Mm-hmm. Emma Harvie: I think there's just so there's just so much noise. And so When we can think about nutrition from a more holistic perspective, a more macro perspective, and recognize that sometimes the most basic nutrition advice is the the most important. There are certain principles that apply to pretty much everyone. a good a good example would be: can you make sure that you're eating the rainbow in fruits and vegetables? That's applicable to every single person that I work with. can you make sure that you're aiming for 1.4 to 2 protein per kilogram of body weight? That's applicable to every single person that I work with. Can you make sure that you're not skipping meals? Can you make sure that you're not only relying on hyperprocessed foods? Right, there's a number of things that are so basic, but it's so confusing out there. Keith: Yeah. And I think you didn't you just do an Instagram post essentially like that, where it was a carousel when you kind of laid out like seven or eight things. And I I saw that and I was like, that's perfect. I mean, Emma Harvie: Yeah. Yeah. Keith: like I think was one of the other things that Lou and I talk about a lot is, you know, trying to figure out small changes or small levers that you can pull that add up to big things and not trying to make huge, you know, changes all the time across everything, because then it becomes much more challenging and much more difficult. Emma Harvie: Yeah. Well well that's that's the other thing is so many people try to do everything all at once. I'm gonna overhaul my entire diet. But the problem is that this they allow this kind of overwhelm of doing everything prevent them from doing something. Like choose one thing. Choose one thing you can work on next week. Maybe that's you're gonna drink half your body weight and ounces of water a day, right? Like that in and of itself is not hard, but You are following a super inconsistent processed food diet that has no structure to it, going from that to a regimented diet that allows you to feel your best, that's a huge, huge change that's gonna take time Keith: Right. Emma Harvie: and that you're not gonna be able to do overnight. So choose Keith: Right. Emma Harvie: micro goals that feel tangible that you can add to over time as you develop consistency and self-efficacy in those behaviors. Keith: Yeah. Well, and that sounds like one of the big benefits of working with somebody like yourself in terms of you know that it takes time to develop these good habits and make these changes and help people walk through the fact you know or walk through the process versus trying to change everything at once, which becomes Emma Harvie: Yeah. I think I think a good analogy for that too is that I work with so many athletes who are so dedicated to their fitness but Keith: Yeah. Emma Harvie: don't have the same discipline for nutrition. But it's like if you're training if you're training for a marathon, you're not gonna go from running two Keith: Really? Emma Harvie: miles and then the next day you're gonna run 26. You're just not. It's not safe, it's not effective, and you're not gonna have a performance that you want. So nutrition is no different in that you have to take the time to train. and become accustomed to this new habit and behavior for it to be sustainable. Lou Fratto: That's a great way to put it. Great. Yep. Never th I never thought Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: of it that way. This I I wouldn't. I wouldn't try to do a marathon in, you know, two weeks and that's a great Emma Harvie: Right? That sounds crazy. That sounds insane. Keith: yeah, I'm sure we all have crazy stories about my early days when I was a lot younger, playing around with different crazy stupid diets as well. But that could be a rabbit hole we don't need to get into. Lou Fratto: Right, right. Keith: All right. So one of the things I wanted to see if you could talk a little bit about is the concept of macros. And you know, a lot of people that listen to this probably have a fairly decent understanding of what that means. but maybe if you could sort of give us an overview of the different macros and what their role is in nutrition. And then the other thing that I've seen come up a lot lately is fiber. And I know it's not a macro, but I'm curious, like, maybe talk about about each one and some examples of ways to get that into your diet and then also the kind of the role that it plays, if that's not too Emma Harvie: Sure. Keith: broad. Emma Harvie: okay, so macronutrients are nutrients that we need from food in large amounts. So there are three macronutrients that make up your calories. There are prote it's protein, fat, and carbs. Alcohol is a separate macro, which for the purpose of simplicity we don't need to get into. But but either Keith: Yeah. Emma Harvie: way, protein and carbs both have four calories per gram, and fat has nine calories per gram. one thing I also tell all my clients is that there is no food and no macronutrient that inherently causes fat gain It's eating too many calories causes fat pain. but I have so many people who are scared to eat fat and scared to eat carbs, so they only eat protein. But the thing is, we need all three for a healthy balanced diet, especially because that's also how we get our micronutrients, which are the vitamins and minerals that our bodies need to obtain from food that we don't make. So When it comes to protein, fat, and carbs, everybody has individual needs. So I obviously can't give a prescription of what someone's needs would look like, but Keith: Sure. Emma Harvie: protein, obviously important for building muscle, muscle recovery, participates as you know, chemical reactions in the body, is impro important for DNA RNA synthesis, and typically. We want to aim for somewhere around 1.4 to 2 grams of protein per kilogram body weight. Again, that's very general. Somebody might fall outside of that for whatever reason. Carbohydrates are the fuel source that our body uses most efficiently. So for athletes, carbohydrates should make up the largest percentage of your diet. This is also where people get really scared about carbs. you know, I'm gonna get fat if I eat bananas or if I eat Sugar, whatever it might be. but again, there's no no bad or good foods. Food does not have morals. We can include all foods within the context of a balanced diet. But in terms of having like a balanced, sustainable diet, yes, we want to be eating a wide variety of carbohydrates from things like whole grains, starches, legumes, fruits, that that type of thing. and then fat. is a component of every cell in our body. Fat is very important for hormone health, for joint health, for cardiovascular health, for cognition. Fat is again more calorically dense than carbohydrates and protein. So we typically need less grams of fat per day than protein and carbohydrates. And eating too much fat from animal food, so things like meat and dairy. And not enough fat from plant-based sources is where that can start to perpetuate some cardiovascular health issues. and then fiber is a component of plants that is actually very important for gut health. So it's not actually that we need fiber as an energy source, it's not an energy source, but the bacteria in our gut microbiome feed off of fiber, and fiber is very important for metabolic health, for gut health, for keeping inflammation at bay for satiety, for cancer prevention, for it you know, a a whole slew of reasons. And so we want to make sure that we're not just focusing on protein, for example, and we're also focusing on fiber. Keith: Yeah. So like with fiber specifically is one of the issues, seems like, 'cause I'm doing a lot more social media now because of this podcast, but it's like I said, kind of having a moment and is one of the issues that processed food essentially like s part of it is stripping out fiber from the f food where it naturally exists. Emma Harvie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Keith: So people are just getting less of it. And that's why, you know, okay. Emma Harvie: Yes. So fiber from things like fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts, and seeds, is where the bulk of that is going to come from. There are certain plant foods that have far more fiber than others. So for example, something like lettuce is not gonna give you a ton of fiber, but something like raspberries has a tremendous amount of fiber. So even for a lot of people who are worried about their fiber intake. One thing that could be helpful is you can even go look up the fiber content of different foods that you're eating, right? Look up what are the highest fiber fruits and vegetables and include them, include a couple servings in your diet. But I think a great way to work towards a fiber intake. And for most people, the recommendation is going to be about 14 grams of fiber per thousand calories of intake. that is again individual. Some people can tolerate a lot more than that. Personally, I eat a very high fiber diet and tolerate that fine. other people don't so but anyway, thinking about including plant food in all of your meals or most of them, like I wouldn't eat like broccoli before going to the gym, for example. but in general, in most of your main meals, including plant plant food is gonna help you meet your fiber goal. Lou Fratto: can you eat too much fiber, or can you is that something else that you have to ease into if you go in from a low fiber diet? Emma Harvie: Yes. So if you're eating a low fiber diet, I would not triple your fiber intake overnight. You're gonna have some gastrointestinal distress. So Lou Fratto: Yeah. Emma Harvie: slowly breaking Keith: Good to know. Emma Harvie: that up. And yes, you can eat too much fiber and you'll know if you do, because you'll have gastrointestinal distress. Lou Fratto: Got it. Keith: So everything in moderation, I guess, right? Emma Harvie: Yeah. That's right. That's right. One time my husband Lou Fratto: Yes. Emma Harvie: ate an entire head of red cabbage in one day and suffered Lou Fratto: Ouch. Emma Harvie: very badly. Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: Good to know. Emma Harvie: Mm-hmm. Keith: I was gonna ask, I guess or just mention like Lou and I are old enough to have lived through the fat is bad kind of craze where Emma Harvie: Mm-hmm. Keith: Everything in the grocery store all of a sudden was low fat and no fat. And Emma Harvie: Yeah, yeah. Keith: I know that that seems to be like it was a thing that was overall very, very bad for nutrition in general. And it you Emma Harvie: Mm. Agree. Keith: know, it seems like also with along with fiber, like fat is kind of having a moment where people are talking a lot about, like you said, the role that it plays in cell maintenance and but you know, you don't have to like know the different kinds of lipid profiles or whatever to understand like it has a beneficial effect, but probably breaking the mindset that a lot of people had that eating foods that are high in fat are bad for me is something that might be a struggle or a challenge, I would imagine. Emma Harvie: Yeah, and I think a lot of that too just comes from again the caloric density of fat, but Keith: Yeah. Emma Harvie: fat is absolutely critical. So eating a low fat diet is a really great way to mess up your hormones and recovery and brain health and all that. Keith: Yeah, for sure. You mentioned a little bit about kind of tangentially timing, like eating broccoli before going to the gym. I know Emma Harvie: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Keith: you were kind of making a joke, but Lou just actually wrote a three-part series on recovery and on our Substack. And I was wondering if maybe you could talk a little bit about fueling not only and and eating kind of for performance, but the role that it has in recovery. And then maybe Lou, you can jump in and comment a little bit on what you learned writing that series and how it kind of lines up with what Emma said. Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah, sure. Emma Harvie: Yeah, so I think the biggest thing is just knowing that your performance and recovery are going to be dependent upon your nutrition. And so we want to think about food as energy from this standpoint. And so the energy source that our bodies use for exercising muscles is carbohydrates. And so typically, if you're going to be exercising, we want to make sure that number one, you're eating enough carbohydrates in your overall dietary pattern, but when it comes to timing, that we're timing them those around training. So if This this is also gonna depend on what time you're training and where your goals are, but there's so many aspects. But but in general, I would recommend having some sort of carbohydrate rich meal or snack prior to exercising. So this is where I have so many athletes that will be doing like fasted crossfit six days a week and it's just so ineffective. It's like trying to drive across the country with half a tank of gas in the car. You're just not gonna you're just not gonna get very far. Or think about how much energy it requires to lift weights. And so if you don't haven't had any energy coming in from the night before. you're circumventing your performance potential. So for folks that are exercising in the morning, I might say, okay, if eating a full breakfast, you don't have enough time for that, because if you're working out at 7 or 8, you get up at 6. like for me, I might have a banana and peanut butter 30 minutes before. If I'm going to 10:30 AM CrossFit and I get up at 6:30, Obviously, I have four hours where I can eat a really balanced breakfast and time that in a way where that's still going to provide substantial energy through the workout. And so that's where I will include protein, fat, carb fiber that's slower digesting, that provides more sustained energy. So it's really about that timing in terms of the composition of the meal. The closer you are to training, the more carbohydrate predominant you want your meal to be because you want it to be digested. quickly absorbed into the bloodstream, provide a quick source of energy. If you're two hours, three hours out, you want to have a more long-lasting form of energy that's going to be more slowly digested and and provide satiety. So it depends on the timing. And then after your workout, when we are trying to build muscle, perform well, recover well, our body needs a couple of inputs for that muscle protein synthesis process. We need muscle contraction, obviously, then we need amino acids from protein and we need glycogen from carbohydrates to restore your muscle and liver glycogen after exercising. So after you work out, you know, timing doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be immediately, but in that one to two hours after you work out, ideally you're having a meal that has, for most people, at least about 30 grams of protein and then some sort of carbohydrate to initiate that recovery process. one mistake I see a lot of people make is they're just having protein without the carbs, but the carbs are really important for both muscle protein synthesis and recovery. That was really long. I don't even know if I answered the question. Keith: you Lou? No, it was great. Lou, you got any insights there, Lou, you want to ask or ask follow Lou Fratto: That was good. Well, Keith: up? Lou Fratto: yeah, I'll tell you my first insight was I didn't even touch upon nutrition as far as recovery. So that I was really a miss on that. So Keith: Part four. Lou Fratto: this is great timing, you know, that you you're adding a key component that I I didn't talk about. my main thing with recovery was just to try to create the mindset of thinking of recovery as an active process. It's it's still moving forward. So when you're recovering, it's not like you're taking a step back. You're still moving forward. It's still a very super important part of the process. And of course, you know, I talk about like not overworking yourself and paying attention to that kind of thing physically and getting good sleep and that kind of thing. But yeah, I just totally didn't put anything about nutrition. So that's awesome that this timing Emma Harvie: Well and building muscle in and of itself is an energy requiring process. So if you are not giving your Lou Fratto: Yeah. Emma Harvie: body the inputs that are required to achieve muscle protein synthesis, you're going to be experiencing muscle breakdown, not building. And then I think the other thing people miss is that they don't realize that when you're when you're exercising, we're experiencing these micro tears in our muscles that then need to repair. when we're recovering and that's how you build muscle. And so I see so many people that are like not taking rest days, skipping rest days, and it's like so contradictory to what they're trying to achieve because it's when we're resting that we're recovering. Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. So do you Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: well it's I find it's challenging for especially seniors, it seems like, to to get the right amount of protein. Do do you have any like ideas for that or what how do you help somebody that's under getting not getting enough protein to get as much as they need? Emma Harvie: Yeah, I think one disadvantage that a lot of older people may have is just the diet messaging that they received growing up, which is very different from what it is now. And it's very easy to get stuck in that pattern for years after years after years until you're in a place where you're experiencing muscle loss and all the things that come along with not nourishing your body that the way that it needed when you were young. So I think really it's about moving at a pace that feels comfortable to you as an individual. And so maybe if you're having like here's an example, if you're having cereal for breakfast, okay, could we switch that to like some Greek yogurt with cereal, right? If you're having a I don't know, a salad for lunch, could we add like a little chicken on there? So I think it doesn't have to be more challenging for seniors than it is for anybody else. I think it's really about meeting the individual where they're at and coming up with suggestions that feel approachable and not scary and comfortable that they can build on. Lou Fratto: Are you okay with like a protein shake? Emma Harvie: Yeah, I think again there's no food that is off limits. All foods can fit in the context of a balanced diet. And so obviously we want to get the majority of our intake from more whole foods and protein can be a very convenient, effective method of achieving what we want to achieve in terms of protein intake. I myself use protein powder daily, but it's not making up all of Keith: Yeah, I'm kind of seeing that firsthand with my folks that one of the things that they're dealing with is just their appetite decreases and they're not as hungry as they used to be. And so I some of it may be related to the fact Emma Harvie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Keith: that they're also not as active, but you know, trying to get them to eat whole meals. And I've I last time I was down there, I helped them buy some protein shakes and I said, split one of these, you know, once in the Emma Harvie: Mm-hmm. Keith: morning at least so you know that you're getting something built Emma Harvie: Totally. Keith: around. you know, total meals so individualized, I think. What about well specifically, well this this might actually might be too long to get into. I was gonna ask if nutritional needs between men and women are significantly different, but that might be a really long conversation. Emma Harvie: I think at the end of the day, everyone's nutritional needs are different. but unfortunately most of the research around sports performance, nutrition, is conducted on eighteen to twenty year old white men, which is not applicable to everybody. so all the research you see on intermittent fasting as an example. Conducted on men, but we can't apply that to women because women are not the same. We have very different hormones. you've probably seen the adage of women are not small men and should not be treated as such. And there's so many more complexities Keith: Yeah. Emma Harvie: in terms of women's health and hormones that are so severely under-researched and underfunded and understudied. So I think the short answer to that is just personalized nutrition is where it's at. Everyone's needed needs are different, but in general. looking at the diet as a whole, it's like, are the recommendations I'm giving to men different from women? Not not not terribly, right? They're more or less the same, the same principles and concepts. There are just certain things that might need to be taken into consideration in terms of hormone cycles and whatnot. Keith: Okay. Good to know. we probably should start wrapping up here. but there's so much more to talk about. And I hope Emma that you know, if you're willing to come back at some point, we could do kind of a part two of this because I've got a show outline that's got a whole nother s you know, set of segments on Lou Fratto: Ha ha. Keith: that we could go into in a lot of detail. Emma Harvie: Mm. Keith: But this has been really, really good. you know, one thing I wanted to ask too about your practice, you don't just work with people in person, right? Do you do You you work with people from all of Emma Harvie: My practice is entirely virtual. and so the laws differ between states in which states I can be licensed in in practice, but Keith: Okay. Emma Harvie: I'm legally allowed to work with folks in I think forty-eight of the fifty states in different capacities. Keith: Awesome. Emma Harvie: Actually one thing I would like to mention is just the difference between a dietitian and a nutritionist if I may, because I think that's another one that Keith: Ooh yeah. Please. Emma Harvie: Largely misunderstood. So there's two professional pathways for nutrition nutrition professionals. There's the registered dietitian pathway, which requires a bachelor's degree in dietetics. It now requires a master's degree, but I'm not sure what the actual requirements are on that. it requires an in a diet Keith: Mm. Emma Harvie: dietetic internship and a board exam and then licensure. And so the pathway that I took. as the certified nutrition specialist pathway. And so my credential required a master's degree in nutrition, 1,000 hours of supervised practice experience, a board exam and licensure. But where it gets tricky is that dietitians are licensed under an exclusive scope of practice model. So Keith, it would be illegal for you to call yourself a diet a dietitian because you're you're not a diet, you're not licensed, right? Keith: Just don't tell anybody. Emma Harvie: Yeah. But You could call yourself a nutritionist because in most states there is no title protection for nutritionists. And so what happens is that because there's no title protection, there's all these people online and wherever else who maybe maybe got no education in nutrition at all, or maybe they did like a certificate program, which is not the same as getting a master's degree. And the board certification. but they can call themselves nutritionists, and so it can oftentimes give my title just a bad rep in in that sense. And so the other difference is that dietitians are widely recognized across all 50 states where my credential is still kind of up and coming, and so legislation is evolving. So, for example, I'm licensed in Minnesota, I'm licensed in Florida, but Georgia doesn't even until now hadn't recognized my credential at all, but now they are. legislation passed that will allow me to get licensed here, but then because I have a master's degree in nutrition, I'm allowed to practice. So anyway, it's very Keith: Okay. Emma Harvie: like very confusing. but the bottom line is that the only two nutrition pathways that are legally able to practice medical nutrition therapy are licensed dietitians and certified nutrition specialists which I am so when people are looking you know who to take advice from Those are the the titles that they should look for. Keith: Good distinction. And you know, we'll we'll let you plug your socials and everything else when we get to the end. We're still going to do some rapid fire questions, but I'm glad to hear that your practice is completely virtual because if there's anyone listening to this in this audience or that we can Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: reach, I can vouch for the fact that Emma would be a great person to work with. She's awesome, just you know, a great athlete, but also just a really good person to be around and hang out with and obviously super knowledgeable and credential. up on this. So yeah, if you're listening audience and Emma Harvie: Thanks. Keith: you need somebody to work with, Emma's Emma, it's worth giving Emma giving a call. And if you do, tell her that Thrive AF sent you. That's good to know. All right. We are going to do a short round of rapid fire questions. So no warning on this. Yeah. Lou, I don't know if you have your own, but I had a list. but if you want to jump in at any point. Lou Fratto: wait yeah d I think I Yeah. Keith: All right, I'll start. These are these are fun but hopefully easy. All right. Three things, Emma, three things that you think people should eat every week. Emma Harvie: cruciferous vegetables, berries. Fatty Fish. Keith: love the fatty fish. Love the salmon. Sardines. It's my go to. All right, three things you think people should absolutely avoid if possible. Emma Harvie: avoid microwaving food and plastic and putting hot food in plastic. Is one that can be one category. Keith: Good to know. Emma Harvie: avoid man. I is just this is just foods that they should have liked. Keith: Sure. Emma Harvie: See, I don't I can't answer this because there is no Keith: That's okay. Emma Harvie: food that is off limits. Keith: All right. Lou Fratto: Even even a full sleeve of Girl Scout cookies? Emma Harvie: Actually, you know what? No, I'm gonna change my mind. You should avoid foods that you are allergic or intolerant to. Keith: There you go. Watch the shellfish if that's your issue. Lou, you got any to throw in here? Because I've got a few more. Lou Fratto: Eggs good or bad for you? Emma Harvie: Good. Great. Keith: eggs. Yeah. All right. do you have a go-to favorite healthy snack? Emma Harvie: Mmm no, my my snacks vary widely. I I eat some weird weird snacks, I feel like. what Keith: Give us one weird snack. Emma Harvie: would a weird snack be? I'll just eat like whatever. I'll eat like Keith: Kim sh Kim Chi straight from the bottle. Emma Harvie: Well, I mean I might. you know what I do really like for a snack is some sprouted grain bread with avocado, an over medium egg and kimchi. Keith: Love it. Yeah, we didn't even get to the whole fermented foods thing that's also having a moment, but we could save that for part two. All right. Emma Harvie: Yeah, you okay, you know what? I I will add that to my earlier response. Fermented foods every week would be great. Yeah. Yeah. Keith: Okay, all about the gut health. All right. all right, this one is very critical. What is your favorite podcast with the word thrive in the title? Emma Harvie: THRIVE A/F obviously. Keith: See that, Lou? That's how you do it. Dude. Backed her into a corner. Went in for the kill. Lou Fratto: Course. Yeah, you narrowed that one down pretty good. Pinned her Emma Harvie: Yeah. Keith: That's how you do an endorsement, baby. Take that Huberman. Take that Huberman. Lou Fratto: No coercion there. Keith: All right. Actually, this is the this is the most critical question we're asking all our guests. pickleball or tennis? Emma Harvie: Pickleball. Only because I'm better Keith: Okay. Emma Harvie: at it than tennis. Keith: All right. I don't think we've had a single we haven't had many guests yet, but not a single one has said tennis. So we're Lou Fratto: That's right. Keith: trying to kick up a little a little fire on social media by starting some, you know, wars between pickleball and tennis players. So Emma Harvie: Maybe you should interview a tennis player, then you'd probably get the other answer. Keith: Yeah, well, I have some some friends that run a a big tennis program in Sarasota. So I'm gonna have Emma Harvie: Hey no. Keith: to put them on there. And I'm playing tennis this afternoon, so I'm on the I'm on the tennis tip for sure. cool. Lou, you got anything else? Lou Fratto: One more, coffee, good or bad. For Emma Harvie: Well, Lou Fratto: ya. Emma Harvie: if I said bad, then that would be very hyp hypocritical. I've got I've Keith: There are no bad foods, Lou. Emma Harvie: got coffee right here. Coffee, I'm gonna say good. Coffee's Lou Fratto: That answers the question. Emma Harvie: good. That's right. Yes, Keith: Everything in moderation. Indeed. Lou Fratto: Including moderation. Emma Harvie: but coffee is not a substitute for breakfast. Keith: I think that was on your Instagram reel or that I just saw. Yeah, very good. All right. Emma Harvie: Coffee is great, but let's not be suppressing our appetite with stimulants. Keith: Yeah, good point. Or trying to trying to use it as a as a a way to put off actually eating good stuff in the morning. Emma Harvie: It's not the best not the best strategy. Keith: Right on. All right. Well, where can people find you on social media and online? Emma Harvie: You can find me at my website, emmaharvienutrition.com You can find me. This is very easy. It's all just my name. I don't have a creative title yet. on Instagram, I'm Emma Harvie Nutrition. I'm not I'm trying to be more active on there. I'm not super active, do my best. and then another place that I find is really helpful for folks who are thinking about working with nutrition professionals is if you look me up on Google, you'll find all my Google reviews, and I find that's a really great way for people to just learn about. What you know others have to say about their experience. Keith: Awesome. Well, Emma Harvie: Mm. Keith: Yeah, we really appreciate you having on having you on the show. Thanks for taking the time to get on with us. And we will put links to all your stuff in the show description and the podcast description and get it out there. And again, if anybody out there listening to this is thinking they might like some assistance getting their nutritional house in order, Emma is the person you need to see because she's awesome. So we really appreciate your time. I hope that you will come back and do part two and beyond because this has just been a really great conversation and Just really, really appreciate it. Emma Harvie: Well, I'd be delighted to come back any time. It's been an honor to be here, so thanks so much for having me. Keith: All right. Lou Fratto: Nice to meet you. Emma Harvie: Yeah, you as well. Keith: All right, we can't go without doing the sign off. And Emma, would you mind doing the honors since Lou and I screw it up every time? Emma Harvie: Well, I will not mind. I'll say until next time, keep growing, keep challenging yourself and keep Thriving A/F! Keith: Yes, another one. Nailed it. Thanks, Emma. Lou Fratto: Nice. Perfect. Keith: Thanks, Lou. We will talk to you guys again soon. Okay, bye-bye. Emma Harvie: Thanks guys. Talk to you soon. Lou Fratto: Thanks guys. Take care. Emma Harvie: Bye.