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Great Roommates, No Sex (with Steph Flood) · Evolutionary Men

0:00
Jason Lange: Alright, and welcome back.
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If you're married and you want more touch or more sex than you've been getting, or
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you just stopped asking, this one is for you.
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Today my guest is Steph Flood, a licensed marriage and family therapist who calls
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herself your wife's best friend because she tells husbands what their wives feel
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and rarely say out loud.
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She's been married to her high school sweetheart for over 30 years.
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Jason Lange: And today she brings your wife's side and I'll bring yours.
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Welcome Steph.
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Steph Flood: Thanks so much for having me.
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Jason Lange: Yeah, really excited to have you today.
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This is a topic that is right up my alley with so many of the men I work with and
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is often one of the things that actually gets a man to reach out and ask for help
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in my experience of something's going wrong in his relationship.
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And so my first question for you is what's a question a husband asked you this year
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that maybe he wouldn't have asked anyone else?
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Steph Flood: that's such a great question.
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And I I really do actually there's a theme in it.
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And it's typically around like, I'm doing everything right.
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Like I'm doing the dishes and I'm helping the kids and I'm an active participant in
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this marriage, like like I'm supposed to be.
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And she still doesn't seem to want the romantic connective part.
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Steph Flood: so if I do all the right things, then why why are we not connecting?
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Jason Lange: Yeah, okay, totally.
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And the pain and often frustration that I think comes with that for so many men.
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And this maybe gets right into your emotional to physical cycle.
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Can you tell us a little bit about that and what you've mapped out and maybe how it
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relates to that?
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Steph Flood: Yeah, so I think, I describe it to my clients as sort of a hamster wheel of love.
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So very t and I'm gonna kind of use more typical kind of language.
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that you know, most men feel loved through physical touch.
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That is their love language, that is where they feel appreciated, it is where they
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feel valued, it is the it is their driving force.
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Steph Flood: and we'll put them maybe at the top of the wheel.
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The ladies are on the bottom of the wheel with I need you to know my inner world
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and connect in my inner world, meaning like, you know, I had that conversation with
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my mom a week ago.
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Did you follow up?
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Steph Flood: And ask me how things are going now.
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you know, I have this person at work who drives me crazy.
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Is my husband kind of checking in?
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So all that kind of emotional stuff.
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That's usually where the ladies live in their love language.
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To get a couple to kind of get on the hamster wheel, they each have to be doing the
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thing for the other one.
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Steph Flood: get things kind of rolling and going.
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And so that it's it is challenging because most women are like, well, he didn't
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talk to me all week.
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So why would I want to make out with him?
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Or and he's like, well, she like clearly doesn't care about me because she hasn't
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touched me all week.
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Jason Lange: Yeah, this is so common and definitely
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Steph Flood: Mm-hmm.
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Jason Lange: a journey I've been on in my my own relationship and something I work with men and
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often tell, I call it the the cosmic joke in a sense of often partners both want
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the same thing, deep
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Steph Flood: Mm-hmm.
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Jason Lange: connection and bonding, physical, emotional, and and whatnot, but coming at it from
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the different directions, right?
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For us, men obviously often bodily connection allows us.
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Jason Lange: To feel our emotions in our heart and closeness.
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And it's often the opposite, right?
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For the feminine, for women.
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Okay, once my heart is open, once I'm feeling connected emotionally, then my body
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might start to open and feel something.
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Not every time, but might.
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And that I think that's one of the great shifts.
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certainly I work with men on that.
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Jason Lange: not allowing all that emotional labor to fall on our wives or feminine partners
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these days of, hey, we can actually lead in terms of creating the conversations and
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connections right.
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Steph Flood: Yeah, and and one of the things that I really encourage men to remember is you were
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actually doing all this stuff when you were dating your partner.
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When you were courting your partner, you were actually paying attention to her
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emotionally in a deep way.
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you were going out on dates, and I'm not saying date nights are the answer, but it
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was the conversation you were probably having with her.
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Steph Flood: The attention that you were bringing emotionally that actually got her hooked.
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And then usually the the physical attraction and all of that other good icing on
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the cake stuff was going on, and so men were like, Yes, this is fantastic, but they
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totally forget that they were doing all of that, like probably when they were
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dating.
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Jason Lange: That's so true.
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Jason Lange: And d definitely, you know, again, something I experienced in in my relationship.
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And that, yeah, right.
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The the beauty of early in a relationship is when you spend time together, the
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purpose of spending time together is to put your attention on each other.
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Right.
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So we're going out on dates, it's all very intentional.
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Then we start to blend our lives, maybe get committed, maybe get married, maybe
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have kids.
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A lot of the time we spend with each other.
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Jason Lange: is not with our attention on each other.
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It's dealing with all of the stuff we have to juggle in life.
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And it turns out when we're not putting attention on our partner, right, she often
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feels it.
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And that, you know, I work a lot with guys on teaching them how to bring presence
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to their partner.
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What does it actually mean to be present for your feminine partner?
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Jason Lange: And that is something we actually have to invest in.
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And as I kind of joke, it's not the best term, but it's something I definitely
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experience in my marriage.
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If like there's there's a bit of feeding the meter.
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Like if I haven't been bringing my presence in connection to my wife throughout the
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week, including emotional connection, talking, light touch, and then I want to
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initiate sex later in the week, it's like that's a huge leap for her.
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But if I've been
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Jason Lange: connecting with her, we've been emotionally intimate, there's been touch involved.
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It's much less of a leap.
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But I think us guys assume our how our nervous system works is often how a woman's
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nervous system work.
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And what I hear you saying is it's actually pretty different.
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Steph Flood: But yeah, it is you're right, it is a cosmic joke.
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Jason Lange: Yeah.
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Steph Flood: But there, I mean, I can get all like geeked out and nerded out on like why we
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might have all evolved like this, it you know, and how it keeps the the herd safe.
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it keeps the tiny humans alive by each of us having these different kinds of roles
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and expectations and how things kind of
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Steph Flood: how things go along, especially when it comes to sex.
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and I you know, I think a lot of men, I I really and truly believe that most
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husbands and most men
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Steph Flood: Are good guys, really and truly.
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Yes, you hear about all the craptastic ones, but most men are actually trying
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really hard.
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And sometimes they just are like kind of a deer in the headlights and have no idea
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like what they were doing to get their wives in the first place.
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I've heard many men be like, I don't know, she just said yes, and that's what's
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here we all are, and like now we got some kids.
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and they don't actually know what they were doing.
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So just reminding them of like, yeah.
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Steph Flood: all of these qualities you've got, you've got it in your in your bag.
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And once you start implementing them, she is gonna be like, hello, sir.
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should we have another baby?
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Jason Lange: Yeah.
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And yeah, I'm
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Jason Lange: I'm curious that brings up to me what what's something you often have to give a man
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feedback on that's maybe challenging for him that might be the same feedback his
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partner has tried to give him, but he can hear from you that maybe he's never
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actually been able to hear from her.
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Steph Flood: I think I we have this conversation quite a bit in my own marriage because my
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husband is you know he's a very typical man.
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And so sometimes this, even though I do this for a living and he has been around
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for a very long time, like he sometimes forgets that he's like, yes, I'm supposed
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to do this thing.
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one of the one of the biggest things that I think
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Steph Flood: Women don't necessarily know how to communicate to their male partner, is the way
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in which you speak to me actually matters quite a bit.
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So most men get hung up on like the tone police.
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she's trying to tell me like how to talk.
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What she's trying to do is help you add in some more.
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Steph Flood: softness probably to what whatever it is you're saying.
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And that softness translates to love to most women.
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So like if if you're trying to get your wife to do XYZ, instead of saying like, why
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don't we have sex?
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She's gonna be like, Cause I don't like you.
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if he changes it and says, I miss being intimate with you.
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Steph Flood: That is a very different sentence asking for the exact same thing.
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So I try to help guys change the language a bit so that it can be received better
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by their female partner.
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Jason Lange: I love that.
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That's right in line with, you know, often what I have to help men with in many
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ways, because of how we're trained and taught in our culture as as men, is what it
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means to be emotionally vulnerable, right?
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Steph Flood: Mm-hmm.
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Jason Lange: To actually reveal what I'm feeling inside, which is very different from accusing
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my partner of you don't love me, you never want to have sex with me.
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Right.
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You hear that and it's like defenses are up, now I gotta like,
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Steph Flood: Yeah.
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Jason Lange: now we're in a fight.
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But hey, I really miss you and I I miss.
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Jason Lange: our physical connection and I I feel alone in our relationship.
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Totally different.
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Totally different, right?
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And from what I hear from you is that that's a thing men just need to hear and be
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reminded of that yeah, it's it's not just what you're saying, but it's how you're
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saying it and how conducive is that to connection itself.
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Jason Lange: And so here here's a question I have for you, because one of the most painful
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things a lot of the men I work with actually come to me with is maybe a little
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different than what the preconceived notion of of men just wanting sex is.
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And like you said, guys are actually tend to be pretty good.
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Yeah, there's some there's some bad seeds out there for sure, but something that
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often shocks a lot of people about the men I work with is it's not just sex they
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want.
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Jason Lange: There is actually a level of connection and intimacy associated with that.
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And one of the most painful experiences many men I've worked with have is when they
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have the experience of their wife just giving them sex.
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So, okay, here's my body.
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Just can you can you finish?
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Can you get it over?
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What in your mind is kind of going on on the on the wife or the woman side there?
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Steph Flood: Hmm.
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I think what you're describing is wanting to be wanted.
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And that is I think all humans want to be wanted, but men specifically when it
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comes to intimacy and sex wanting to be wanted by their partner.
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That is a very different feeling.
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She is actively engaged in the intimate act, whatever it is, that feels a thousand
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times better.
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You're right.
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Like than her just laying back and be like, Yeah, get it over with.
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Steph Flood: That sucks.
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Most men actually don't really want that.
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they're like, this feels awkward and weird and also a bit violating.
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and so that that helping women understand that just because you've decided like,
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okay, fine.
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Steph Flood: We're gonna check that box, does not make it a good experience for either one of
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you.
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It actually builds a lot of resentment on both sides.
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so I think what for if your wife is doing that, having the conversation of
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Steph Flood: That is being really honest, like that is not what I'm particularly looking for.
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I appreciate you trying to make some kind of effort in this department.
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If you've probably complained about it enough, she's probably like fine.
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but what I'm looking for is the connection, that physical connection for both of us
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to enjoy.
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And most men will tell you that they are most turned on when their female partner
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is turned on.
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That is.
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Steph Flood: all of the things and it's fantastic and everybody's very happy.
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So having a conversation around like, well, what would what would actually work for
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you?
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Like, you know, as as the female partner and a man asking her, like, you know, I
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don't really just want to have sex with you and have it be over with.
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I really want this to feel good for you and feel good for me.
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And
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Steph Flood: make it something that we routinely hopefully come back to because we're both
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enjoying the experience.
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Jason Lange: Yeah, I love that.
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The really highlighting the desire for it to be pleasurable and enjoyable for both
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partners.
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And that one unidirectional isn't ac li I totally matches the experience of men I
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work with.
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It's not actually what they like and want.
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They want to feel their partner enjoying it.
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Often they that's the most enjoyment they have is feeling their own partner enjoy
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it even more than their own pleasure and intimacy.
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So that conversation I think is an absolute
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Jason Lange: Game changer for men that can initiate that.
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Jason Lange: And so what about there's a guy I often work with as well, the so-called nice guy,
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right?
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I'm a soti certified no more Mr.
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Nice Guy coach.
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And this is a guy who desires sex, but often carries a little bit of shame around
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it.
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And so even early in my marriage, you know, there were times I'd be lying there in
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bed, my partner was there.
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Jason Lange: And I would be frozen in terms of how to initiate and bring my desire forward to
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her.
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Curious, just in your own experiences with the men you've worked with and whatnot,
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what do you think is often going on in the wife's or partner's mind in those
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moments when they can just feel their husband next to them, maybe frozen a little
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bit around initiating?
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And then how in your work do you work with men around their relationship to their
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desire?
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Steph Flood: So passive types of men sometimes can be their own worst enemy.
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because yes, they're trying to be quote unquote nice, which doesn't actually work
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for sexual attraction typically.
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respectful, good, nice.
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So most times women, I think.
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Steph Flood: Speaking from hormones, women will not always be thinking about sex.
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I mean, it men, and I'm gonna generalize a lot, right?
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Men are typically thinking about sex most of the time.
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So he's laying there and he's thinking, here we are, I'd like to do the things, and
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she is laying there, probably running through the kids' schedule and how fast she
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can get to sleep and how much sleep she's gonna get, and then when she has to wake
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up and do all the things.
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Steph Flood: So totally not even thinking about the same things, which is why it's hard than if
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you are laying in bed and you do decide like, okay, I'm gonna give this a shot, and
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she's like, what are you doing?
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Why are which then creates more of that shame, right?
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Because now she's like caught off guard and she's told you like and you were
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working this up for the last 15 to 20 minutes, hoping for something good to happen.
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Steph Flood: I think that's the typical kind of thing.
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I think women don't really understand.
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A lot of women don't necessarily understand like what has been going on in his head
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for 15 minutes of like trying to build up the courage to get there.
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And so the way that you start to break up that cycle a little bit is n having way
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more physical touch on a very regular basis all day long.
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Steph Flood: 10 touches a day, actually.
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Which, if you've ever given this a shot, it is fascinating.
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You start counting.
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Also, 10 second kiss does really, really, really well.
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You can thank the Gottmans for that one.
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But it is, it's a lot when you start thinking about it.
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Now, if you've gotten, if you as a man, if you are really
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Steph Flood: non-sexual touch to your female partner 10 times a day.
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First of all, it's gonna fill your cup up too.
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There's that happening.
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But it also breaks up that like it's been seven days, it's been two weeks, and I
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haven't touched her and now I'm asking for sex.
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Like it's too big of a it's too big of a leap.
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So if we break it up a little bit more, that actually helps quite a bit.
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Jason Lange: Yeah, so that consistent I I kinda joke with my guys touch and connection in and
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presence in a sense, it's like sunshine and water for a plant.
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'Cause sometimes guys are like, well, I told her I loved her last week.
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Well, it actually doesn't matter.
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The the plant still needs sunshine and water today.
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Every day it needs sunshine and water, right?
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Jason Lange: And that consistency is something I've had to work really hard for in in my
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marriage because my family, my family of origin, touch, none of that was normal,
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right?
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So I had to learn to okay, come toward my partner, come toward my partner.
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Not just when I want sex, right?
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Like to to actually initiate other kinds of connection.
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And so what about, you know, it it sounds like you work with a huge range of men,
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but
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Jason Lange: The okay, here's a man.
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He's in he's in maybe a long-term relationship, and they get along great.
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They're like best friends, they manage the house really well, but there is no
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sexual charge anymore.
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What what's often going on in in you know in the wife's head?
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And what is the man, you know, what responsibility or what does he need to start to
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bring to the relationship to maybe shift that dynamic?
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Steph Flood: the first thing to it and we call it the roommate.
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You're you've got a roommate is what you've got.
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You've got a really good roommate, usually.
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but you're right, there's no sexual energy there.
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Sexual energy again comes from consistent physical touch.
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Like it is reminding yourself that you this is yes, this is your bestie.
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and that's fantastic, but this is also a person that you really
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Steph Flood: want to physically be close with on a pretty regular basis.
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there are some tricks to this to this that I do like suggest to people.
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and one of them is for women smell is a really big deal.
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So getting
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Steph Flood: And I I will tell men, I don't care what you like, you have to pick what she likes.
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So get yourself some soap that she likes.
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Have her pick out the soap.
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Have her pick out the cologne.
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Have her, and then you need to start physically getting near her so she can start
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smelling you again.
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That will get her hormones kind of going.
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I think the other thing too that tends to happen if you've been married for a
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decent amount of time and you are in your late 40s.
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Steph Flood: is the joy of perimenopause and understanding and the crazy thing, and I tell
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couples this all the time, right?
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Who you were in your 20s, who I was as a female in my 20s.
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Steph Flood: Very different than who I was a female in my 30s having four babies.
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very different than a female in her 40s.
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So also recognizing and understanding and men too, you guys get a little easier,
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right?
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You know, your testosterone hits a nice little peak there at about 14, 15 and it
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just hangs out.
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Steph Flood: So you hit about 65.
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Unless you're really stressed out, then you got some problems.
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But for the most part, you're like, we live like this.
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And so if you guys can also start paying attention to like, hey, is this a is this
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actually a medical thing going on?
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Like she not feeling like she wants have sex because it's medical stuff going on,
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perimenopause, fluctuating hormones, all the things.
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my husband laughs all the time.
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He's like, perimenopause did not exist until three years ago.
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Steph Flood: And then all of you women started talking about it.
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And I was like, well, that's because all our moms like white knuckled it apparently.
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And those of us that are older millennials, Gen X, like, it turns out this is
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terrible.
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And this is all the things that are going on.
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So we don't want to talk about that.
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We want to talk about it, like if there's any sort of like medical stuff going on,
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because it's a it plays a big, big role in why couples might just end up in that
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roommate place.
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The other thing too is constant busyness, right?
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Like, so if we are
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Steph Flood: Managing all of the things, the kids, the job, the house, and he's managing the
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kids, the job, the house, and you keep going like this to where you are worlds
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apart, like that is how you get into a roommate situation because you are so busy
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dealing with all of this other stuff that you forget to take care of the
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relationship.
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Steph Flood: I actually end every single session that I have with my one-to-one clients with
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take good care of each other.
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And that's a clue to them, assigned to them, like, that means that we come first.
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Actually, not the kids, not the work, not the house.
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The two of us come first.
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How do we connect every single day, either through physical touch, emotional
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connection, something?
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And that will start to get you out of roommate mode.
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Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
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And to to dial into that a little bit more, how how in your mind does a man's
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stress level literally the stress he's holding in his body, whether it's physical
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tension, emotional tension, anxiety, fear, how does that tend to impact his
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romantic relationship?
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What do you see?
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Steph Flood: So
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Steph Flood: laugh because I'm gonna throw my husband out of the bus because he lives he lives
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in a very high stress environment.
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He starts startups for a living.
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So that is a thousand miles an hour for a very brief period of time and then we
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kind of move on to the other thing.
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So stress for men, most men will turn inward.
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Steph Flood: Because they're trying to one, not take it out on their family, because that
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doesn't usually go very well.
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Steph Flood: So sometimes that looks like I'm going to the gym a lot more, or I'm on my phone a
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lot more, or unfortunately, I'm just gonna use porn because that's the simplest,
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fastest route to me taking care of something, and I just can't like I don't want to
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do anything else.
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So stress that usually comes out in most men isn't as pulling inward.
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and so which then
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Steph Flood: leads to I'm not really connected to my wife she doesn't really want to have sex
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with me because I'm so pulled in but it has to do with like how much stress I'm
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under.
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What most men actually forget, don't understand, is as your female partner, I would
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rather hear all about it.
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I would rather hear about how your boss is a jerk
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Steph Flood: Or that, you've got this massive problem, s that it's at work where, you've got ten
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hours of work and trying to get a thousand things done.
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I would rather hear about it because if I'm hearing about it, you're actually
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releasing some of that stress in a healthy way and we're connecting.
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Jason Lange: Yeah, I love that.
25:55
one of the things I work the most with men on is yeah, that tendency to bury it all
26:00
inside and, you know, be tough, be the tough man that can just pick himself up by
26:05
the bootstraps, keep going, don't show vulnerability, don't ask for help.
26:10
And that has huge consequences, right, on our physical health, our emotional health.
26:15
And then yeah, it shows up in our family in relationship as well.
26:20
Jason Lange: related to that, what do you see?
26:22
Because a big part of the work I do in the the mission I'm on is actually getting
26:28
men connected to other men as well.
26:30
One of the things I often see men let go of as they enter into relationship,
26:36
particularly as they have kids, suddenly all of the peer relationships they had
26:41
that helped, take care of them in some sense start to fall to the wayside.
26:47
do you see men showing up?
26:49
Jason Lange: To you, f feeling lonely in life in terms of the types of connections they have
26:54
even outside of their intimate relationship?
26:57
Steph Flood: Yeah, that that is a it's it's it's a big problem.
27:00
We have lost community for men.
27:03
especially not being like not going into the office anymore.
27:08
it is like my husband is mostly remote.
27:11
I think he's there like in the office like once a month or so.
27:16
And so they've lost like those were his people before.
27:20
The you know, the guys at work.
27:23
Steph Flood: you know, those were kind of his people.
27:25
And then yes, as we ended up having a bajillion children, like the friendships that
27:30
we have are now completely based around the kids.
27:34
And those night not he loves all these people very much, but they might not
27:39
necessarily be like who he would have sought out like as a f as a friend.
27:43
Like, no, we're just connected because of kids.
27:46
Interestingly enough, my husband goes to a restaurant most days.
27:51
Steph Flood: And he has collected a group of men.
27:54
And like there's I think there's like 10 of them now.
27:58
And it is fascinating that they've all just sort of morphed, they all come to this
28:06
restaurant for lunch.
28:08
Steph Flood: almost every day and they just chat and throw shade at each other.
28:12
I think is a really weird thing that men do, but that's what apparently they do the
28:18
for bonding.
28:19
and it is a f it is it's been fascinating because there's you can just see you can
28:25
see the need in these guys.
28:27
They they just want other men to just kinda hang out with and joke around with and
28:33
Steph Flood: Talk shit.
28:33
And then they all go home.
28:35
And it has made a big difference in my husband's life because these are people,
28:41
again, that he truly enjoys.
28:43
And I think the more men can really cultivate that.
28:47
I also think too, and this isn't just on a female thing, don't give your husband
28:53
shit if he wants to go hang out with his friends on occasion.
28:58
Steph Flood: I think that's, you know, yes, everybody is busy, everybody is working hard,
29:03
everybody's hopefully helping with the kids and doing all the things, but each
29:10
partner needs a group, you know, at least a couple people to just hang out, have a
29:16
beer, go play golf, go have lunch, go to a men's group, like if, you know, whatever
29:22
it is, like that is vitally, vitally important to your marriage.
29:28
Jason Lange: Yeah, that I just want to double click that.
29:28
Steph Flood: Yeah, exactly.
29:31
Jason Lange: it's something that I think is so important and it's so counterintuitive.
29:36
I tell men this.
29:37
If you want to improve your intimate relationship, improve your relationship with
29:43
other men.
29:43
A, they become another space you can bring your stress, you're overwhelmed to.
29:49
B, they can sometimes give you feedback that you need to hear.
29:53
So your wife or partner isn't the only one.
29:57
Jason Lange: giving you that feedback.
29:58
And oftentimes those kind of outings and interactions, like you said, part of what
30:03
it allows for is space between partners that I get to go off and have an experience
30:07
and you're having an experience.
30:09
And it's often in a little bit of distance, some of that charge starts to come
30:13
back, right?
30:14
If we're just spending all day long with each other, I, you know, my wife, wife and
30:19
I both work from home.
30:20
She's on the top floor.
30:21
I'm on the right, it's we spend a lot of time together.
30:25
Jason Lange: I go away to men's group and I come back and there's always a little bit more
30:29
energy.
30:30
Hey, what happened tonight?
30:32
What did you do?
30:33
What did you do?
30:34
And for, I can tell you, speaking for my wife, and it sounds like maybe this is
30:39
true for you.
30:39
part of why my wife has become an advocate for me to go out and spend time with my
30:45
men in men's groups on retreats or sometimes just socializing is because of who I
30:50
am when I come home.
30:51
I'm more present, I'm more relaxed, I'm more grounded.
30:55
Jason Lange: And she turns out likes that.
30:59
Steph Flood: Yes, very much so.
31:00
Yes.
31:01
even though like I I think some of the things they talk about, I'm like, that's
31:08
horrifying.
31:09
But sure, whatever.
31:11
Go like I don't need all the details, I don't think.
31:16
Steph Flood: But yeah, it it's in, always a little bit of gossip too, because then I hear how
31:22
so-and-so is doing.
31:24
god, that doesn't sound good.
31:26
but yeah, I think it's it's vitally important for men to have other men that they
31:33
connect with.
31:34
I think too, at a lot of times men in low intimacy marriages, they think they're
31:41
alone.
31:42
Steph Flood: They think they're alone in this.
31:44
They th they almost always like other men are not having this issue.
31:48
yes, yes, a lot, a lot of couples are having this issue.
31:52
You are not alone.
31:53
So sometimes just being with another group of guys and you start hearing like,
31:58
yeah, last time was on my birthday.
32:01
Like because it comes out, it does.
32:03
People start talking about it.
32:05
So it kind of hearing like, hey, like this is a this is a more normal problem than
32:10
than maybe you thought before.
32:13
Jason Lange: Yeah.
32:13
In another area I was curious to get your your take on, kind of as the the the wife
32:19
whisperer, so to speak.
32:21
Steph Flood: Yeah.
32:22
Jason Lange: Performance anxiety for men, whether it's premature ejaculation, delayed
32:27
ejaculation, erectile dysfunction, so many men I work with have a hu feel a huge
32:33
amount of pressure around.
32:36
Jason Lange: their erections and their ability to last in bed and often have quite a bit of
32:42
unspoken shame around that.
32:44
And I'm curious kind of from your side, what what's often the experience of a of a
32:50
wife or a partner that a man doesn't realize and maybe would be useful for him to
32:56
know?
32:57
Steph Flood: A couple things.
32:58
Most of the time, we're very self-centered little people.
33:02
we think it's our fault.
33:03
Most most women will assume it's he's not attracted to me.
33:08
He's god, like I'm, you know, I'm fat, I'm ugly, I'm whatever.
33:12
And ninety-nine point nine percent of the time that's actually not the case.
33:17
Most of the time it's actually stress or just
33:21
Steph Flood: you just have an off day.
33:22
Unfortunately, for a lot of men, if they have that experience once, it freaks them
33:28
out enough that they think they're gonna have it again.
33:31
And guess what happens?
33:33
Then we have it again.
33:34
And then we have now a compounding problem because it just kind of goes on and on.
33:40
So unless it again, it's a medical thing going on, most of the time, it's all up
33:45
here in your head.
33:46
So for the ladies' perspective, most of my ladies,
33:50
Steph Flood: generally burst into tears in the middle of what has gone or they just are like,
33:55
again, they're like kind of freak out, like, God, he's not attracted to me anymore.
34:01
And then most of the time the guys just get real quiet.
34:05
They don't say anything.
34:06
So then now we both have now we're both lying there and being like, okay, well
34:12
clearly it's me, right?
34:14
I think what a lot of women really need to understand is
34:18
Steph Flood: We have all been told that the male equipment works perfectly all the time.
34:23
And that is a lie of lies.
34:25
Like, it just doesn't.
34:26
It does not work perfectly all the time.
34:29
It probably shouldn't work perfectly all the time.
34:33
It is totally okay.
34:34
Totally okay.
34:35
There are a thousand other things that you guys can do that don't require penis to
34:41
vagina sex, unless you are actively trying to have a baby.
34:46
Steph Flood: That you really don't actually need that.
34:48
So there still can be touching, there can be, you know, any other format of
34:53
whatever might still feel nice that doesn't actually require an erect penis.
34:59
So, and once you start doing that and understanding, like, okay, if this isn't
35:04
working right now, no problem.
35:06
We could switch to this and we could switch to this, or we could just say, you know
35:11
what, tonight's not the night.
35:14
Steph Flood: Didn't want come out and play, it's totally fine.
35:17
We're gonna go sleep.
35:18
We can try this again in a couple days.
35:21
No problem.
35:22
I think most most if you could have that open and honest level of conversation, the
35:27
erectile dysfunction usually goes away pretty quickly.
35:31
and we're back to the races and everybody is fine.
35:35
Jason Lange: that's such a nice distillation distillation of that in that so many things, right?
35:40
I think a lot of guys don't realize our erections are often related to safety.
35:45
And that, hey, we need to feel safe, emotionally safe, physically safe as well and
35:51
relaxed, a huge one for us guys, right?
35:53
You
35:54
Steph Flood: Mm-hmm.
35:54
Jason Lange: can't get an erection if your blood vessels can't relax.
35:57
But the the thing I really want to highlight, guys, I really want you to hear this
36:01
is
36:02
Jason Lange: Often what kills the moment is not the lack of erection.
36:06
It's our collapse around it.
36:08
Right?
36:08
If we get ashamed or frozen or upset or we go cold or we storm out of the room,
36:14
whatever it is, that's actually what stops the intimacy.
36:18
Like you said, there's so many ways to keep the connection flowing, even if our
36:24
erection isn't there anymore.
36:26
And doing that inner work, I think, is so key for men.
36:31
Jason Lange: To be able to, hey, ha take that breath and stay connected to a partner instead of
36:35
disappearing like so many men I know do because they're overwhelmed or they're
36:39
ashamed or whatever that might be.
36:41
And if the connection's still there, you can still have an incredible evening that
36:45
can go in all kinds of directions.
36:47
And then sometimes even interaction might come back later, sometimes it might not,
36:52
but there's a lot of possibility there and that pressure I think men put on
36:56
themselves, particularly then.
36:58
Jason Lange: If they're in a relationship where sex isn't happening often, and then it's like,
37:01
my God, this might be the only time, and da da da, it just can build on itself so
37:05
fast.
37:06
Steph Flood: Yeah, that that one is actually a really big deal because if you're not having sex
37:11
on a regular basis, then you're like, yes, tonight's the night.
37:15
And then your body is like, No, it is not, sir.
37:18
That's not gonna happen.
37:20
It it sucks.
37:21
It really does.
37:22
But that doesn't mean that it's not going to happen in the future.
37:26
I really and this is
37:28
Steph Flood: couples end up in couples counseling to talk about this stuff.
37:32
But my hope, my goal is that you could actually be able to talk about this in your
37:38
relationship, like before it even ever happens.
37:41
so like you know, and I I truly people tell me all the time, they make fun of me.
37:47
They're like, Stephanie, nobody is having these conversations.
37:51
Nobody is like who
37:53
Steph Flood: did your parents sit you down and be like, hey, you know what happens when people
37:58
can't have sex?
37:59
You're gonna do this.
38:01
Absolutely not.
38:02
Did not happen in my house.
38:04
That would actually freak me out.
38:06
But like if you as a couple are can are able to have these types of conversations
38:12
before it ever happens, like you're off you're off to the races.
38:16
You are in really, really good shape.
38:19
because then you know.
38:21
Steph Flood: You don't have to worry if it doesn't maybe work once in a while.
38:26
Jason Lange: one other maybe kind of I don't know if it's less typical, but maybe less talked
38:31
about.
38:32
What have you ever worked with guys or how do you work with guys in this case if
38:37
it's the man that's the partner with lower desire in a relationship?
38:42
And his partner is available, wanting to feel him coming towards her, but he's the
38:48
one who who doesn't have that desire.
38:51
What have you
38:52
Jason Lange: taught or coached or how do you work with men around that?
38:55
Steph Flood: Yeah, that's actually more common than I think anybody really ever talks about
39:00
because that's it can be pretty shaming for men who and again, I'm gonna go with
39:05
the good good guys, not guys who are maybe finding activities elsewhere outside of
39:10
their marriage.
39:11
It's typically another reason why he might not be interested in his partner.
39:16
we're wi we're truly wired actually for one partner.
39:19
We're actually not wired for multiple partners.
39:23
Steph Flood: keeps our it keeps our species safe to to stick with one.
39:27
but if you you know if you're a guy and you are noticing like hey I am not feeling
39:33
it we wanna really check in about what might be going on.
39:37
Again, I always start with medical.
39:40
Let's just let's just check that box.
39:43
Like for a lot of men, if you are in a very high stressed environment job
39:49
Steph Flood: life situation, it actually is going to decrease your testosterone.
39:53
And I always recommend to guys is maybe take one step further than just going to
39:58
your general practitioner because sometimes you're going to get a lab result that
40:03
says, your testosterone's fine when it is literally at the bottom of the bottom of
40:08
the hole.
40:09
Steph Flood: And if it's at the bottom of the hole, that's gonna make it real difficult for you
40:12
to feel like to feel enamored.
40:14
That was the best word.
40:15
so if you go
40:16
Jason Lange: Mm-hmm.
40:16
Mm-hmm.
40:17
Steph Flood: see an endocrinologist, they're gonna be a little bit more specialized.
40:20
they are gonna be the ones that are gonna be like, yeah, that's low.
40:23
So let's boost it up a little bit and get you kind of going.
40:26
So first things first, we're gonna look at the medical stuff.
40:29
If the medical stuff is fine, your testosterone is fine, then we wanna start
40:33
looking at like, hmm, okay.
40:35
Steph Flood: Are there things she is doing, saying, behaving that is making you kind of get the
40:42
ick?
40:42
Like, I don't really want to do this.
40:46
Like there's something about whatever our relationship dynamic is going on that
40:53
does not feel safe to me to have sex with her, does not feel like I want to be
41:00
connected to her.
41:02
And this is gonna be a bit of a hot take.
41:06
Steph Flood: It's okay if you are not always attracted to her.
41:11
Steph Flood: Okay, she is aging.
41:13
She has had some babies probably.
41:18
Things change.
41:20
And it's okay if you're like,
41:25
Steph Flood: That wasn't what it used to be, or that doesn't feel the way it used to be, or that
41:30
certainly doesn't look the way it used to be.
41:33
Sometimes just acknowledging that, I might not be physically as attracted to her as
41:38
I once was is enough to be like, okay, I can kind of get through that.
41:42
But
41:43
Jason Lange: Mm-hmm.
41:44
Steph Flood: you know, it and that sucks and it's hard.
41:47
It does.
41:48
But it does happen.
41:50
Steph Flood: It happens to all of us, your wife is not gonna always be super attracted to you
41:55
physically, and that is okay.
41:58
For most long-term couples, what we what we're really looking for is emotional
42:03
attraction.
42:04
How does this person make me feel?
42:07
Does she make me feel like I walk on water?
42:10
Like, let's start paying more attention to that, and that actually can start to
42:16
bring arousal back.
42:17
Now.
42:18
Steph Flood: Some people, this is also what I tell lots of couples.
42:21
There is no right amount of sex in your relationship.
42:25
There are some people who are everyday people, bless them.
42:29
And that is great, and that is what feels right for them, and it works, and yay!
42:35
Okay.
42:36
And there are some people who are like, you know what?
42:39
We connect about once a month, and it's freaking awesome.
42:44
Steph Flood: And that's fantastic and that's totally okay.
42:47
There is no right amount.
42:48
Now I'm sure a lot of your men right now are like, Stephanie is a liar.
42:54
I I am one a day kind of person.
42:56
My wife is like every four months kind of person.
42:59
we just kind of work on like how to how to bridge that gap.
43:04
Jason Lange: Totally.
43:04
And yeah, this is often something I explore with guys too is that you know, there's
43:10
seasons to any relationship.
43:11
Sometimes there's higher desire seasons and then there's kind of lower desire
43:17
seasons.
43:17
And it's okay.
43:18
Like you said, and it's okay.
43:20
Sometimes we're not as attracted to our partner as other times.
43:24
And I love what you said about learning to shift more towards emotional attraction,
43:30
right?
43:30
That part that in some ways can just keep increasing.
43:34
Jason Lange: as we age and become more close and comfortable and intimate with a partner versus
43:39
just the physical attraction and that puts some pressure in a good way on us guys
43:44
because that's often an area we're pretty underdeveloped in of what does it mean to
43:49
not only create emotional connection with my partner, but know how to receive
43:54
emotional connection, right?
43:56
A lot of guys I work with
43:58
Jason Lange: Their partners want to love them and they don't even know how to let it in.
44:02
They're just not used to it, right?
44:05
They're so armored up from a lifetime of, being a man, so to speak.
44:09
But that there's real training we can do there to learn to kind of give that
44:14
emotional connection more room and air so that part of us can just grow old with
44:19
each other in a sense and still have something juicy and and fun.
44:23
I I love, love, love that reframe.
44:26
Jason Lange: Okay.
44:26
And is there anything else that just comes to mind in terms of, you know, guys out
44:32
there listening right now?
44:34
What something you might want them to know that, you know, comes from their wives
44:40
or or female spouses that they they might just be missing that we haven't covered
44:46
so far.
44:47
Steph Flood: I think I just, really want to re reiterate, we love you guys.
44:52
We really do.
44:54
we really we're in it with you.
44:57
It isn't just about your paycheck or, you know, the kids or whatever.
45:03
We connected with you before you had probably all of that, especially if you've
45:11
been in a long-term marriage.
45:13
We truly love you.
45:15
And
45:16
Steph Flood: Yes, we don't always understand that the physical piece is a huge component for you.
45:23
it's okay to talk to us about that.
45:26
It is totally okay.
45:28
It, you know, if if you can change the language up a little bit and talk about
45:35
intimacy, talk about affection, talk about closeness using those words, you're
45:42
gonna get.
45:43
Steph Flood: pretty dang far with us.
45:44
And we that's those that's our language right there.
45:48
So if you can kind of approach it from that angle, you are going to more likely be
45:53
successful in your in your later outcomes of of sex.
45:57
But we truly love you and we truly think you guys are good guys.
46:02
We know you are.
46:03
We know you're good husbands.
46:05
We know you're good fathers.
46:07
Like, you know, it it we are not that is not lost on us.
46:11
Jason Lange: to double click that once again, guys, one of the biggest shifts I think you can
46:17
easily make these days is learning to lead and tend the emotional connection in
46:23
your relationship.
46:24
If you even just do a little bit of that, you're so far past where most men in our
46:30
default culture are.
46:32
And spouses will respond to it, right?
46:35
It's it's a really special thing.
46:37
And guess what?
46:39
Jason Lange: There will be reciprocity to that.
46:40
You will get to feel affection and touch and care in return the more you're able to
46:45
bring that to her.
46:46
So really appreciate the work you're up to and what you're doing to help us men
46:50
feel even more connected and have thriving relationships and partnerships.
46:54
And if people want to keep up with you, Steph, what's the best way for them to stay
46:58
in touch or or or learn more about you?
47:00
I'll drop this all in the show notes, but would love to have you share it here.
47:05
Steph Flood: So you can find me on Instagram at Steph Flood Marriage Coach.
47:10
give you lots of good tips, advice, all kinds of things.
47:15
and you can check out my website too.
47:19
It's s a floodoflove dot com.
47:22
Steph Flood: it's pretty simple there.
47:23
I've got a newsletter that goes out if you want to sign up for it.
47:27
I give you all kinds of I give you this language.
47:30
Every every single email has okay, this is exactly what wording I want you to say
47:35
to your partner and see what happens.
47:38
Jason Lange: love it.
47:38
Well, thank you so much.
47:39
It's been a real pleasure chatting with you today.
47:41
Steph Flood: Yes, thank you, Jason.
47:42
It was so nice to virtually meet you.
47:44
Jason Lange: Yeah, so great to connect and to all the listeners out there.
47:48
Thanks much.
47:49
And until next time.