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Two Years, 100 Newsletters, and Not a Single Sale Yet · eCommerce Podcast

• 0:04
  So welcome to the eCommerce Podcast. My name is Matt Edmundson and it is great
• 0:09
  to be with you as always. A very warm welcome to the show. If this is your first
• 0:13
  time with us, we are going to be talking about all things eCommerce. Yeah, how
• 0:18
  to set up, run, start your own e-com business, how to make it wildly profitable
• 0:23
  and all those other amazing things that we want to do. I've been in ecommerce
• 0:27
  since 2002, which I like to say to people makes me an ecommerce dinosaur. I've
• 0:32
  been around a fair while. Yes, I have. Since the dawn of ecommerce. And when we
• 0:36
  last counted, and to be fair, this was quite a few years ago. I don't know what
• 0:41
  the number is now, but when we last counted, I think we'd done over $75 million
• 0:45
  in worldwide sales over the years. So yeah, I've seen the ups, I've seen the
• 0:50
  downs. Failed at business more times than I've succeeded. It's just the
• 0:55
  successes have far outweighed the failures. And so yeah, we've, we just, I just
• 0:59
  really enjoy this topic of ecommerce and it's great to be with you talking about
• 1:04
  it. So if you are new, do make sure you like and subscribe and all of that good
• 1:08
  stuff. We've got lots of great episodes including today. And if you want to know
• 1:13
  anything about the show, about what we get up to, past episodes, the notes from
• 1:17
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• 1:22
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• 1:27
  like we have, we run cohort groups which are free to attend and awesome. We've
• 1:31
  got some really funky ecommerce AI. All that stuff is on the website at
• 1:36
  ecommercepodcast.net, ecommercepodcast.net, where incidentally you can sign up
• 1:40
  for the ecommerce podcast newsletter. And all we do is once a week just
• 1:45
  literally send you the notes and the links From the episode. So you've always
• 1:49
  got those in your inbox. They come to you and they've now started to come
• 1:54
  actually with a little Claude prompt, well, a little Sam prompt. So if you're
• 1:58
  using the Slingshot AI system, if you're one of the people using our system, you
• 2:03
  can always use the prompt as just to get you started with how what we're going
• 2:08
  to talk about today can impact and help you with your own e-com business. So do
• 2:12
  check that out, ecommercepodcast.net. And of course, if you're a regular to the
• 2:17
  show, welcome back. It's great to have you. Thanks for being part of the
• 2:21
  journey. I just, it's just great. I get to meet so many of you guys when I
• 2:26
  travel around the world and go to different events. And it's always good to do
• 2:30
  that. So make sure you reach out to me on social media or about that in just a
• 2:35
  little bit. But that's enough from me. Let's get today's guest on the show.
• 2:40
  Gabriel, welcome to the show, man. Whereabouts are you? It's looking very
• 2:44
  swanky.
• 2:50
  Thank you very much. I appreciate being on the show. And I'm currently in
• 2:53
  Colombia, so I'm here in a hotel room in Medellín and just enjoying the
• 2:57
  Colombian weather.
• 3:00
  Yeah, well, good on you. Why not? Why not? Is this a vacation or is this like a
• 3:04
  digital nomad thing?
• 3:08
  So I'm currently doing it for my day job that I'm doing while I'm working on my
• 3:12
  ecommerce business. I'm here for Work.
• 3:17
  Very good. Well, why don't you tell us a little bit then about your e-com
• 3:21
  business? This is the reason why we've got you on the show, isn't it? To talk
• 3:24
  about your e-com business, what you're finding, what you're learning, because I
• 3:28
  know that quite a few people listening to the show are going to be in the same
• 3:31
  boat as you. So I'm kind of curious, just tell us, give us the 30-second
• 3:35
  elevator pitch about what you're up to.
• 3:38
  So Nordic Dudes is an e-commerce business for guys or Vikings with bigger legs.
• 3:44
  And the whole point of our business is to create swim shorts for men who have
• 3:49
  bigger legs and who chafe and just don't want to have the sand in between their
• 3:55
  legs and all that chafing that comes from the normal swim shorts that you wear
• 4:00
  with a mesh liner. So, we want to solve that problem with solving the chafing
• 4:05
  and also making it a little bit fun with some jokes along the way.
• 4:11
  I think humour is by far one of the best ways to sell a product. And if you can
• 4:16
  use humour, people love it and they really, really connect well with it. I like
• 4:22
  this. You're making swimwear for Vikings, those that have got bigger legs, which
• 4:27
  if I'm honest with you, my ears picked up at that. Not that I claim to have
• 4:32
  massive legs, but they are significant. Um, and so I like to do a lot of squats.
• 4:38
  My calf muscles are massive. Not that you need to know that for your swimwear,
• 4:43
  but I appreciate the problem. I remember once, Gabriel, going into, um, I don't
• 4:48
  know if you've heard of a chain of stores here in the UK called Reiss. And
• 4:53
  they're like a clothing, they're like a well-known clothing brand here in the
• 4:59
  UK. And, uh, I had to, I remember once I had to go get some trousers for, I
• 5:04
  think it was for a wedding. And me and one of my sons went shopping. And I, I
• 5:09
  was so exasperated after like 3 or 4 hours of not being able to find anything
• 5:15
  that fits. I walked into Reiss and I said, listen, if you can find me a pair of
• 5:20
  trousers that fits me, then I will buy every single pair in this shop. And they
• 5:25
  were like, well, challenge accepted.
• 5:31
  Oh yeah.
• 5:31
  Uh, and, um, I didn't realise at the time, but Reiss was very much the skinny
• 5:36
  fit brand. And so I'm like, there's no way they're going around my calves, let
• 5:41
  alone my thighs. And so I'm very intrigued by why this was a problem that you
• 5:46
  thought you needed to solve.
• 5:51
  So the way it started was I was on vacation in Australia and we were doing a
• 5:55
  walk from Coogee Beach to Bondi Beach. And that's about a 40-minute walk maybe.
• 6:00
  And it's January, so it's summer there, so it was like 38 degrees, 100 degrees
• 6:05
  Fahrenheit, really hot. And we went for a swim in Coogee Beach, and then we're
• 6:10
  gonna do this walk. And I was wearing these mesh liner swim shorts that looked
• 6:15
  really nice, but they, you know, when you swim for a while and then they dry,
• 6:20
  they get really hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crusty. They were kind of like that. And
• 6:24
  then they had the mesh liner inside, and we were walking for Mm-hmm. And it
• 6:29
  hurt, it burnt really badly. And when we got to Bondi Beach, I was like, I can't
• 6:34
  wait to get into the water and cool off. But then when we got into the water,
• 6:39
  the— I guess the salt water or something got into the scratched skin and it
• 6:44
  started burning really bad. So it was pretty much just in and out immediately.
• 6:48
  And that kind of planted the seed for, for me to be like, I need starting to get
• 6:53
  into the water more often. Nordic Dudes. And then we didn't do anything. I
• 6:58
  didn't do anything about it for a couple years. And I spoke with my brother
• 7:03
  about it and he also had the same problem or similar problems. He has even
• 7:08
  bigger legs than I have. And so we come from an ice hockey family, so that's why
• 7:12
  we have the big legs.
• 7:17
  Yeah.
• 7:18
  And we didn't do anything for a couple years. It kind of just died off a little
• 7:21
  bit. And then we're like, you know what, should we do something about this? And
• 7:24
  then he's like, yeah, let's do it. And then we started the process of building
• 7:27
  Nordic Dudes.
• 7:32
  Okay, so where are you in that process now?
• 7:35
  So right now we are just about, we are about to make the order for our first
• 7:41
  production run. So we have found a manufacturer, we have finished designing the
• 7:46
  swim shorts, and we, I actually sent an email earlier today about sending or
• 7:51
  sending an email to talk about what the next steps would be to make that first
• 7:56
  order to get those swim shorts.
• 8:01
  Fantastic. Well, sign me up. I'll quite happily be one of your first customers.
• 8:06
  No problem. It's— I empathize with the walking on the beach thing. I— so I won't
• 8:11
  share all the personal stories. No one really wants to hear that. But It's
• 8:16
  interesting, isn't it, how you had the idea and then you sat on the idea for a
• 8:21
  few years before talking to your brother. And it sounds like you kind of gave
• 8:26
  each other the courage to sort of take the plunge and have a go. Would that be
• 8:31
  right?
• 8:35
  Yeah, that would be right. It's also me and my brother, we have— it's about 4
• 8:40
  and a half years of age difference between us. And when I had this problem was
• 8:45
  2017 or 2018. And I was, I don't remember how old I was, maybe 23 or something
• 8:50
  like that at the time. And he was, you know, 4 years younger. So, he was 19, 18,
• 8:54
  19 years old. So, he was maybe not quite as mature yet. And I probably wasn't
• 8:59
  quite as mature either. And he wanted to go to university. So, that kind of, you
• 9:04
  know, delayed things a little bit where he wanted to finish his university
• 9:08
  degree.
• 9:13
  Right.
• 9:13
  And then after that, He was like, I want to start this business and get going
• 9:16
  with this.
• 9:19
  Wow, fantastic. So, uh, you've, you've, you're at the place now where you've
• 9:24
  just, um, you've placed the order. Explain to me, um, the sort of the process
• 9:28
  that you guys went through in terms of getting them designed and made, because
• 9:33
  my guess is, um, there had to be some thought around this. It's not like print
• 9:37
  on demand where you're just gonna You know, you're going to use predetermined
• 9:42
  t-shirt sizes, or maybe you do, I don't know. But I'm kind of curious, what was
• 9:47
  the design phase like, the manufacturing phase, the prototyping, you know, that
• 9:51
  whole kind of thing? How was that journey?
• 9:56
  More took— it took more time than we thought it would take, and it was way more
• 10:01
  difficult than we thought it would be. So it's the most difficult thing I've
• 10:06
  ever done, and I don't have Neither of us have any ecommerce experience except
• 10:11
  for a couple of years earlier where I did some dropshipping. And I think we did
• 10:17
  like, I did by myself $400 in sales. That's all the ecommerce experience I have.
• 10:22
  Sure.
• 10:23
  So we didn't have any idea what to do, how to get out, reach out to
• 10:27
  manufacturers. So we just researched and then sent a text message to a
• 10:32
  manufacturer saying, hey, can you make these swim shorts? No tech pack or
• 10:37
  anything, no designs, nothing, just a text message. And surprisingly, he said,
• 10:42
  yes, sounds good, paid the tech pack or the sample, and then they sent it to us
• 10:46
  and they were absolutely horrendous. It was a complete waste of time and money.
• 10:51
  Yeah, yeah.
• 10:52
  There was no stretch. They were— it was horrible. And we've spoken about it on
• 10:57
  our newsletter about how bad those shorts were. And that's when we realised,
• 11:02
  okay, this is not working. What are we going to do now? And that's when we found
• 11:07
  out, oh, you need a tech pack where it explains the design that you want and the
• 11:12
  colours and how it's supposed to be sewn and all that. But we didn't know how to
• 11:17
  make that. So we found on Fiverr a designer who'd worked with a couple of brands
• 11:22
  and she was quite expensive, but she We wanted to do it properly, so we didn't
• 11:27
  want to have something that cost tech pack $10, $20. So we paid her a good
• 11:32
  amount of money to make a tech pack for us and based on our designs and all
• 11:37
  that. And then she had also some connections with manufacturers, so we got in
• 11:42
  touch with manufacturers that way. And then they created a little bit, created a
• 11:47
  sample for us, those manufacturers with that tech pack. And then we just made
• 11:52
  iterations with every sample.
• 11:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 11:57
  changes to the tech pack. This is what we want to change. We tried the swim
• 12:01
  shorts, the sample for a little bit, and then wrote down everything, told her
• 12:05
  these are the changes we want to make, and then submitted a new tech pack and
• 12:09
  then just iterated like that. And we went through like 3 or 4 manufacturers
• 12:13
  until we found the one we have now.
• 12:16
  So, that process then, how long did that take you?
• 12:23
  It took— we thought we would have it done in 4 to 6 months, but it— we've been
• 12:27
  on that process now ever since we decided to start until now. It's been more
• 12:32
  than 2 years, which is longer than I would like to admit. I wish it would have
• 12:36
  gone faster. We probably could have done it a little bit faster as well, but
• 12:40
  we're working day jobs and we don't really know what we're doing most of the
• 12:44
  time. So it's a lot of— you know, jumping off the cliff and then figuring out
• 12:49
  how to fly along the way.
• 12:53
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that feeling well, uh, trust me. Yeah, uh, know
• 12:56
  that feeling very well. That's really fascinating. So I, I guess one question,
• 13:00
  uh, that springs to my mind, Gabriel, is why did you not quit partway through?
• 13:04
  Did you— did— or did you think about doing that? Did you kind of go, this is
• 13:07
  getting out of hand now?
• 13:11
  I thought about quitting It's probably not, maybe not every week, but every
• 13:16
  month I think at least once about quitting or doing something else. Or a little,
• 13:21
  you see something online about some business idea, oh, I made $10,000 in the
• 13:26
  first month. And your brain's like, oh, maybe I should do that instead because
• 13:31
  that looks easier. But it's probably not easier.
• 13:36
  No.
• 13:37
  So I try to stick to what I have because I've already made a little bit of
• 13:42
  progress and we have subscribers and we, you know, we've made significant amount
• 13:47
  of progress. So that kind of keeps me in line. And we also tested demand for the
• 13:52
  swim shorts before we did all this, which also gives me confidence that we have
• 13:57
  something that people are interested in or that will sell eventually.
• 14:03
  So how did you do that? So you tested the demand. What do you mean by that?
• 14:09
  So what we did was before we had a name, we had nothing. We just had the idea.
• 14:13
  And I told my brother we should test something to just make sure that we're not
• 14:17
  spending all this money and time on something that nobody wants in the end. So
• 14:22
  we created a list of people who we thought would be interested in a product like
• 14:26
  this.
• 14:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:31
  And that was friends, friends of friends, people from my brother's ice hockey
• 14:36
  team and just collect as many, like my friends, just collect as many people we
• 14:40
  thought would be interested in this. And then we sent them a text message or
• 14:44
  called them and reached out to them and asked them, hey, would you be interested
• 14:49
  in something like this? This is the plan. And most people said no, but there
• 14:53
  were, I think it was between 20 and 30 people that said yes and then
• 14:58
  pre-ordered. And we, in Sweden, we have an app called Swish, which is kind of,
• 15:02
  you just, it's a very easy way to transfer money. So they transferred us money
• 15:07
  for that. And then we said, we don't know how long this is going to take. It
• 15:11
  could take us, you know, a year or 2. And all of them, just so they're aware of
• 15:16
  it.
• 15:20
  Yeah.
• 15:20
  And they said yes to that. And if you ever want your money back, you know, no
• 15:25
  problem, we'll give it back to you. And that kind of gave us the confidence
• 15:29
  that, Okay, this is something that people are somewhat interested in. Maybe it
• 15:34
  doesn't validate that it's a million-dollar, $100 million idea, but there's
• 15:39
  enough interest for us to at least explore this further.
• 15:43
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's interesting, is that— did you ever read the— I'm just
• 15:47
  trying to think of the name of the book now. Was it The 4-Hour Workweek with Tim
• 15:51
  Ferriss that came out? I'm guessing Jeez, when did that book come out? Maybe 15,
• 15:54
  20 years ago?
• 15:58
  Yeah.
• 15:58
  Um, and in that he talked a lot about validating ideas, didn't he? And, um, it,
• 16:04
  that kind of thing makes sense. It's like, well, okay, let's build it. Let's see
• 16:09
  who clicks. Let's do this before we go and invest a lot of money. Um, I've done
• 16:14
  that with a few businesses in the past whereby I was like, right, we'll, we'll
• 16:20
  validate the idea. And if we reach this point, then we know it's a good idea.
• 16:25
  And I never once reached that point when I validated the idea, but on every
• 16:30
  single business, I did it anyway. I don't know if it was blind entrepreneurial
• 16:36
  optimism that made me do it. Probably would be the answer. And I don't regret a
• 16:41
  single one, even the ones that failed, I don't regret at all. I thought it was
• 16:46
  really You know, quite helpful. So I guess, did you meet your minimum
• 16:52
  requirement for the pre-order or the testing, or was it just a case of, well, if
• 16:57
  we sell one, we know we can sell two, and if we can sell two, we can sell four
• 17:02
  kind of a thing?
• 17:09
  So we didn't have a minimum order requirement. It was kind of like this gray
• 17:14
  area where it's like, okay, if we get 2, then that's probably not going to cut
• 17:19
  it. But if we get 20 or 30, then that's definitely going to cut it. And then we
• 17:25
  have this gray area that we never really defined. This is the minimum amount
• 17:30
  that we want in order to get people or to continue this idea.
• 17:35
  Yeah.
• 17:36
  So, we just— it was this gray area we never talked about, but we were both happy
• 17:40
  with, okay, 20 to 30 orders. That's That's enough to continue.
• 17:45
  And 20 to 30 orders from how big an audience?
• 17:50
  So, I don't remember how many people we had on the list. I think it was maybe
• 17:56
  60, 70 people on that list.
• 18:03
  Okay.
• 18:04
  So, it was significant, but we also wanted to include that, okay, there's people
• 18:08
  in here who know us, who want to help us out, who might not be a complete
• 18:13
  accurate representation of our real audience. Like, they just want to, oh, we
• 18:18
  know who we want to help him. So we wanted to adjust a little bit for that. But
• 18:22
  we're still happy with the order amount and feel confident that we can make this
• 18:27
  work.
• 18:32
  So you've gone and placed the order today, I believe. Congratulations, by the
• 18:36
  way. It's a big milestone. It's a huge milestone. How long before the goods
• 18:40
  arrive?
• 18:44
  So the next process now is with the manufacturers to order pre-production
• 18:49
  samples, which is just— we had the normal samples before, and now it's
• 18:53
  pre-production samples, which are included, so we don't have to pay anything for
• 18:57
  that. And this is just to confirm that the final samples are good, and this is
• 19:02
  how the final product will look like. And we, uh, hopefully we can get— it's all
• 19:06
  a little bit dependent on— because me and my brother are in 2 different
• 19:10
  locations, so we need to coordinate all the time. So that's also one of the
• 19:14
  reasons why things have taken a little bit longer, because me and him need to
• 19:19
  find the time to talk about any new big step, like, you know, making this order,
• 19:23
  for example.
• 19:27
  Yeah.
• 19:27
  We have to talk about this, and, and then we need to talk about the
• 19:31
  pre-production samples as well. So hopefully we get it all done You know, in the
• 19:35
  next couple of weeks. But the initial goal was to get all this done so we're
• 19:38
  ready to sell before this summer so we could take this wave of the summer with
• 19:42
  the swim shorts. But now it's—we're almost into August, so we're going to miss
• 19:46
  this unfortunately. But it is what it is.
• 19:51
  Yeah, but it's always summer somewhere in the world, right? That's the—that's
• 19:56
  the beautiful thing about summer is it's—if it's winter in the UK, it's summer
• 20:01
  in New Zealand, right? It just—it's just the way it is. And so. You get 2 bites
• 20:05
  of the cherry when you think, you know, North and South Hemispheres, which I
• 20:10
  mean, you would definitely want to, I would have thought, with this product. At
• 20:15
  least I assume you are thinking worldwide.
• 20:19
  We are. We focus— since we focus a lot on Europe, America, Canada, Australia,
• 20:24
  and New Zealand are I guess the main focus area. We obviously want to— we're
• 20:29
  going to— if someone buys in here in Colombia, obviously we're not going to say
• 20:33
  no. We're going to try and ship it to them. But we've thought about, okay,
• 20:38
  Australia and New Zealand are the 2 maybe big countries that have summer during
• 20:43
  Christmas and January or our winter.
• 20:48
  Yeah.
• 20:48
  And that's where maybe the big potential is for us now coming into fall and
• 20:52
  Christmas and winter.
• 20:55
  Yeah, it'd be good to be— it'd be good to test as well, I would have, I would
• 20:59
  have thought. Yeah. So let me run through a few questions, a quick checklist if
• 21:03
  I can, Gabriel, just to sort of— we've got to the point where you're just about
• 21:06
  to order pre-production samples. Where are you up to with the website? Have you
• 21:10
  set that up? Have you got a platform? Are you still thinking about that? Where,
• 21:14
  where's your thinking there?
• 21:17
  So with the website, we have the domain nordicdudes.com. It's currently right
• 21:22
  now landing page that is a sign-up to our weekly newsletter that's called The
• 21:26
  Weekly Pillage, and there we just share the journey.
• 21:31
  That's brilliant. I think that, that name itself deserves everyone just to go
• 21:36
  and sign up to. In fact, let me do it right now. There we go. Join the waitlist.
• 21:42
  There we go. Uh, almost there, fellow Viking. Uh, sorry, I, I, I, you, you
• 21:47
  tickled me with the word pillage, so carry on. You've got the landing page.
• 21:53
  Yeah, so we have that where we just share the journey of building the business,
• 21:57
  things that happen, and just keep our subscribers updated on the progress. And
• 22:02
  what we also started recently doing is because we're trying to build as much
• 22:07
  momentum as possible. So by the time we launch, we have this audience that know
• 22:11
  about us. We've built a little bit of trust with them. So when we present the
• 22:16
  product to them, they're not going to be like, oh, what is this? I've never
• 22:21
  heard of these guys. We don't even know who they are. So we created a blog post
• 22:25
  or a blog now where we post weekly a blog, and then we send a weekly email as
• 22:30
  well every Thursday. And then we try— we're a little bit bad with social media,
• 22:35
  but we're trying to post on social media as well, like Instagram. But it's, uh,
• 22:39
  we want to post product content, and we don't really have much product content
• 22:44
  to post. So it's— social media is a little bit, uh, we're lagging behind there a
• 22:48
  little bit. But blog posts we're doing, and, and the email is our big thing that
• 22:53
  we focus a lot on, right? Newsletter.
• 22:59
  Okay, so I'm on the blog now. Uh, so you've got comparisons and, and all kinds
• 23:03
  of stuff going on here. Okay. Yeah. So the, the plan, if I can, uh, put it this
• 23:08
  way, with your audience building— so you're— it sounds like you've just— you've
• 23:13
  got a landing page, you're like, let's do some audience building whilst the
• 23:18
  product's getting done. You're not waiting for the product to arrive, which I
• 23:23
  think is super I think listening to you talk, I probably would say, if I could
• 23:28
  put it kindly, you probably should get your finger out where social media is
• 23:32
  concerned. I don't know if that translates, but basically get a move on with
• 23:37
  social media because that's your biggest opportunity in many ways, especially
• 23:42
  Instagram, especially with this type of product. And especially if you've got
• 23:47
  samples because you can do all kinds of things with that kind of content.
• 23:52
  Yeah.
• 23:54
  Um, and especially if you like humour, because you can use humour to build the
• 23:58
  following, um, uh, quite easily, I would have thought, um, uh, with, with social
• 24:03
  media. But the, I think it's smart, this idea of audience building so that when
• 24:07
  you get your first order, um, you've, well, you've got your pre-orders, at least
• 24:12
  you've got those in, but when the product arrives, you can obviously start
• 24:16
  shipping out some of the other stuff as well. Um, because you don't want stock
• 24:21
  sat around, especially with clothing, you know, it tends to sort of come and go
• 24:26
  in fashion really quickly, doesn't it? How have you mitigated for that? You
• 24:30
  know, the sort of the fact that you have to continually, it feels like to me
• 24:35
  with clothing, um, you continually have to design and innovate in design, I
• 24:39
  guess.
• 24:44
  And that's probably true. I, so I guess the main thing that we focus on when it
• 24:48
  comes to constantly redesigning, like there's, there's a lot of things that we
• 24:53
  haven't thought about and that we haven't done yet. But when it comes to
• 24:58
  redesigning, the only thing that we have done to mitigate that is that we want
• 25:03
  to focus on, because we think brands today are so boring and they don't really
• 25:07
  focus on the customer. So we, one of the things that we wanted to do was Listen
• 25:12
  to what the customer has to say with this first production run and see what they
• 25:17
  think of these now first swim shorts. And then use their feedback, especially
• 25:21
  from our email list, but also anyone who buys and who's tried them. Use that to
• 25:26
  improve the product and listen to what people say and then make it better that
• 25:31
  way instead of just blindly making changes, kind of a little bit like we're
• 25:35
  doing now because right now we're just building the shorts. Yeah. We like them,
• 25:40
  but and hopefully our customers like it as well. But then once they have tried
• 25:45
  it, we can actually use customer feedback to improve our swim shorts. That's the
• 25:49
  main thing we've done in terms of I guess redesigning, constantly redesigning,
• 25:54
  so to speak. That answers your question.
• 25:59
  Yeah, no, it does totally. And and what it makes me think, Gabriel, and correct
• 26:04
  me if I'm wrong here, is your it feels like. You're going for the slower
• 26:09
  approach to getting the business up and running because you want to get it. How
• 26:14
  can I phrase this? You want it. You want maybe the right approach. So you've
• 26:18
  taken a fair bit of time going back with the samples. You're not. You want to
• 26:23
  get those mostly right. You then want to get the product out there. You want
• 26:28
  customer feedback and iteration. All of those things take time. Right. And so it
• 26:32
  feels like listening to you talk, it's like we want the business to do well, but
• 26:37
  I don't need to do $10 million tomorrow kind of thing. So it's like, it feels
• 26:42
  like you're maybe you've set yourself up to run a marathon rather than the
• 26:47
  100-metre sprint, if I could put it that way.
• 26:51
  Yeah, we, we, I mean, obviously we wanted to go fast. I wish it went faster, but
• 26:56
  I feel like that our experience and our skills Stop us a little bit because
• 27:01
  they're all—it feels like they're always lagging a little bit behind and behind
• 27:05
  what we actually want to do. But we're also not in in a you know in this race or
• 27:10
  anything where we feel like oh we have to get this done faster than this person
• 27:14
  or we have to launch faster than this person. That being said, I think it's
• 27:19
  important that we don't think that the product is perfect at the time when we
• 27:23
  launch and we I think. You should, if you, I mean, if you want it to be perfect,
• 27:28
  you're probably never gonna launch, but just good enough to where we feel, okay,
• 27:33
  this is not where someone would feel this is not worth it at all, this product,
• 27:37
  this is absolutely horrible. We want it to be where they're like, okay, this is
• 27:42
  good enough. I mean, there's, has maybe some flaws, but I like these swim
• 27:46
  shorts. And that's how we feel right now with our current sample.
• 27:51
  Yeah, yeah, that's a good, there's something, I don't know if you've ever come
• 27:56
  across it, There's something called the theory of eights. And, um, it's a, it's
• 28:01
  a theory that I subscribe to in the sense that take anything that you're trying
• 28:06
  to do, whether it's go to the gym, build an e-com business, uh, learn a hobby,
• 28:11
  whatever it is, right? If you try to hit a 10 out of 10 every time you do that,
• 28:16
  um, you're going to exhaust yourself and you're going to burn out. And the
• 28:20
  problem is you'll only hit a 10 out of 10 sometimes. Right. And, um, which means
• 28:25
  sometimes you'll hit a 10 out of 10. Quite often you're going to hit a 6 or a 7
• 28:30
  and be disappointed and so on and so forth. So the theory of 8 states that it's
• 28:35
  much better to consistently hit an 8 out of 10 in something, um, than to try and
• 28:40
  get a 10 out of 10, uh, every time. And I appreciate it doesn't translate all
• 28:45
  the time, but I think in, in this kind of situation, it's a, it's a good idea.
• 28:50
  Is this product an 8 out of 10? Yes. Great. That means we can improve it. We can
• 28:55
  iterate, which is good. We can do that with customer feedback, which is good.
• 29:00
  But if it's an 8 out of 10, people will be happy with the product. I don't even
• 29:05
  think people will say it's good enough. I think they will say it is good, full
• 29:10
  stop. Right? None of the enough. It's just this. People will think this is a
• 29:14
  good product.
• 29:19
  Yeah.
• 29:20
  And so, um, and we all do that, I think, with our favourite brands. And we all
• 29:25
  know that our favourite brands are going to come up with something next year and
• 29:31
  go, why didn't you do that? Actually, that's genius. You know, like Apple. Apple
• 29:36
  are a classic example of that, I think. Um, so I think, I think it's a good
• 29:41
  strategy. Uh, the, the whole 8 out of 10 idea, I think for you guys sounds like,
• 29:46
  um, it could It could work quite well because again, you're, you're not racing
• 29:51
  here. Yes, I appreciate you'd want it to go faster, but it, I think the business
• 29:56
  philosophy, I suppose, um, the Viking pillaging is, um, is, is maybe not quite
• 30:02
  there yet. Um, but still, I mean, you guys must be excited. I would have
• 30:07
  thought, to, to have had this sort of the energy to sustain yourself through
• 30:12
  maybe the last 2 years. Because you said, I think, I think you said earlier, it
• 30:17
  was one of the hardest things that you've done. But it's— there must be an
• 30:22
  excitement and a belief, I suppose, in it.
• 30:27
  Yeah, it's, um, it is the— I mean, I think that hits the nail on the head, um,
• 30:32
  or it hits it perfectly. It's the 8 out of 10. We want it to be good enough
• 30:36
  where we're happy with it so we can launch with a good conscience and think
• 30:41
  that, okay, people are going to think this is good, they like it. And then
• 30:45
  obviously there's going to be some people who think that there might be some
• 30:50
  improvements with this, you could change this. But this is, even if it's,
• 30:54
  they're kind of rude with their comment or their feedback, it's still good
• 30:58
  feedback that we could use to improve.
• 31:03
  Hmm.
• 31:03
  And then the next production run where we can make all those changes and then
• 31:07
  just keep iterating like that and taking a step, one step at a time.
• 31:12
  Yeah, absolutely. So if I can, I mean, you've mentioned your website is a
• 31:15
  landing page, which it is. I can, I can see it here. Watch what— how are you
• 31:19
  going to do the e-commerce site? Have you chosen a platform there?
• 31:23
  So what we've done is it's actually, which is kind of a little bit ironic
• 31:29
  because we're using it for the wrong thing, but that website is actually on
• 31:34
  Shopify. We've just removed all the homepage and what we had for the homepage
• 31:39
  and the product page, but we're designing the product page and everything that
• 31:44
  you need for the ecommerce on, you know, behind the scenes. So—
• 31:50
  Yeah.
• 31:51
  We are designing the product page and doing all that behind the scenes while we
• 31:54
  have that up. We just wanna have something up where people can find us and they
• 31:57
  can sign up for the newsletter and things like that.
• 32:01
  Okay, so you've gone with Shopify.
• 32:03
  Yeah.
• 32:05
  How are you going to do the shipping?
• 32:07
  To begin with, what we're going to do with the shipping is we're going to do it
• 32:11
  manually. And so we are— and that's mostly going to be my brother because we've
• 32:16
  set up the business with the address where he lives in Sweden, and he's going to
• 32:20
  be the one who's going to be Shipping the orders to begin with. And then the
• 32:24
  plan is, if it goes that far, which we hope it does, where we can't keep up,
• 32:29
  where it becomes too much work, then we're maybe renting a warehouse space or
• 32:33
  doing like third-party logistics or something like that to—
• 32:38
  Yeah.
• 32:38
  Kind of remove that work. But in the beginning, we thought it would be perhaps a
• 32:44
  waste of money to spend some money on third-party logistics when maybe we don't
• 32:49
  get that many orders. Yeah, it might be that we sell out immediately. I have no
• 32:54
  idea. But, um, just in the beginning, we'll just do it in person ourselves.
• 32:59
  Yeah, no, it sounds very wise. I, I think it does sound very wise. And there's
• 33:03
  actually— if you— the worst case scenario, like you say, is you sell out in the
• 33:06
  beginning. How many, how many pairs of shorts is on the initial order, if you
• 33:09
  don't mind me asking?
• 33:12
  200.
• 33:13
  So worst case scenario is you have to pack 200 pairs of shorts. Well, you could
• 33:18
  probably do that in about 6 or 7 hours without too much drama, I would have
• 33:23
  thought. Probably less, depending on what else you're putting in the, in the
• 33:27
  parcel. That's a re— there, there is a joyous moment. There are times when I
• 33:32
  walk into the warehouse, uh, that we have— I appreciate it's a very different
• 33:37
  phase, um, Gabriel— but I, I stand there in the warehouse and sometimes, like 3
• 33:42
  or 4 times a year, it is just chaos. We have sold like 5 times more For whatever
• 33:47
  reason than we expected to, and there's pallets and crates and boxes everywhere,
• 33:52
  and there's more stuff, and everyone's running around like a madman. And I just
• 33:57
  stand there and I, I look at it and I smile because it reminds me of the very
• 34:01
  first time I had to go down to the post office. And I'd not gone down with two
• 34:06
  or three parcels like I normally did, you know, selling two or three parcels a
• 34:11
  day with our first e-com business. I'd filled my car with all of these. these
• 34:16
  parcels and it's like, guys, it's just gone mental. And it was wonderful. Um, I
• 34:21
  mean, it was, it was a lot of work, but it was wonderful. And the joy and the
• 34:26
  excitement with that, I still, I never forget those days of, you know, I don't
• 34:30
  forget the days actually, the first time I had to stand in the queue to post the
• 34:35
  first parcels, you know, and I had to pay with cash to the, to the postman to
• 34:40
  get the, the stamps and all that sort of thing. It was just— It's quite magical
• 34:45
  and it's quite lovely. Um, and third-party logistics are great, you know, and I,
• 34:50
  I can't deny that they're not helpful, but sometimes those things do rob you of
• 34:55
  the magic of, of some of these smaller things, you know.
• 35:00
  And I haven't even thought about that, the, the experience and the, the memory
• 35:04
  of going and shipping those first orders yourself. Now that I think about it, is
• 35:08
  that, oh, that when we have that, that's going to be probably something like you
• 35:12
  have, like something you're going to remember. And, and I haven't even thought
• 35:16
  about that until this moment.
• 35:20
  Yeah, no, it will be. And if you— if I could be as bold maybe as to give you— I,
• 35:25
  I— you may have thought about this already, but if I could give you a piece of
• 35:30
  advice, um, founders picking and packing their first orders, I think, is
• 35:35
  critical. One, you understand the product, right? You, you start to see the
• 35:41
  customers, but you are going to care more than anybody else about how that
• 35:46
  parcel is shipped, right? And one of the ways that I think you can differentiate
• 35:51
  yourself quite rapidly is how you ship that product. So for example, if I gave
• 35:56
  the same shorts to somebody at Amazon, And they ship them, it's going to come in
• 36:01
  a really dull brown bag or a brown box or possibly a gray plastic bag. And it's
• 36:06
  like, one of the ways you can really make that stand out, one of the ways that
• 36:11
  you can really differentiate it is do that differently. Don't do it like Amazon.
• 36:16
  Tell a story with the packaging and create an experience so that when your
• 36:22
  customers get them, they're like, That's, that's incredible. Do you know what I
• 36:27
  mean? It creates that sort of magical moment. And I think when founders pack the
• 36:32
  boxes, you get really good at understanding how to create those magical moments.
• 36:37
  Whereas if you outsource it to a 3PL, they could care less about that. And
• 36:42
  that's unfair. I appreciate to a bunch of 3PLs, they're going to be writing me
• 36:47
  going, we care a lot. I appreciate, do you see what I mean?
• 36:52
  Yeah.
• 36:53
  I think there's something quite Amazing about that. Um, have you thought about
• 36:57
  the— how you're going to pack the orders? Is it just a case of we're just going
• 37:01
  to throw them in the bag, or have you got— you're going to box them? Are you
• 37:05
  going to tissue paper them? Are you going to throw in a, I don't know, a Viking
• 37:09
  helmet? What? Yeah, I don't know.
• 37:13
  So what, in terms of packaging, we were looking— that's also something we looked
• 37:18
  at because we wanted to create a premium packaging experience or unboxing
• 37:23
  experience. And we've bought samples or tested samples from boxes, and we've
• 37:28
  gotten boxes home, and then I put the swim shorts or the samples in there and
• 37:34
  then test how heavy it is. And we tried with a box, we've tried with bags. And
• 37:39
  one thing we looked at was how Apple packages their products because I think
• 37:44
  they have a really beautiful unboxing experience and it's a really nice premium
• 37:49
  unboxing experience. But with boxes, we thought that they take more space and
• 37:55
  it's probably a little bit more expensive. So what we did was we then, we were
• 38:00
  almost deciding that, we almost decided that we're going to do boxes, but then
• 38:05
  my mom said that maybe you could do like some premium bag. And then I was like,
• 38:10
  I haven't even thought about that. And then we looked at bags and now we've
• 38:16
  decided that we're gonna do a bag and we're gonna do a fabric bag. So it's a bag
• 38:21
  with the logo on it and it's a fabric bag that you can use for other stuff. So
• 38:26
  it's not just like, you can't, you don't throw it away because if you have a
• 38:31
  box, you can open it and throw it away immediately.
• 38:37
  Yeah.
• 38:37
  Don't keep it. But with a bag, they can use it to, put their swim shorts in it,
• 38:41
  their towel, and their water when they go to the beach, for example.
• 38:44
  Yeah.
• 38:45
  And we're gonna ship that, those swim shorts in that bag, and then we're just
• 38:49
  gonna have probably a plastic bag around it just to protect it. And then when
• 38:53
  they open it up, it's going to be that fabric bag, which is made out of cotton,
• 38:57
  and then the swim shorts inside. That's how we decided we're gonna do, I guess,
• 39:01
  the premium. We obviously wanna work on that in like, listen to feedback from
• 39:05
  customers in order to improve that. But that's where we started off. Yeah, love
• 39:09
  that.
• 39:14
  I think it's a good idea. I— and you can definitely test it. I mean, I'm a big
• 39:19
  fan of the ThruDark brand, right? They're a clothing brand here in the UK.
• 39:23
  They're not cheap. Um, and it used to be when you ordered stuff from them, they
• 39:28
  sent the products, uh, in this sort of black, um, polyester bag, which was one
• 39:32
  of these sort of Um, uh, I don't quite know how to describe them, but they're
• 39:37
  sort of roll-top bags. I've still got those. I still use them. They're all over
• 39:41
  the place. We were camping at the weekend. Some tent pegs are in a ThruDark sort
• 39:46
  of roll-top bag. And that kind of thing is, is really good. What I, I've not
• 39:50
  seen them for a while. I don't know if ThruDark have stopped doing it to try and
• 39:55
  cut costs, but I think if you're spending a good chunk of money on clothing, or
• 39:59
  you want something more than the clothes just to turn up in a grey plastic bag
• 40:04
  and then have the clothes inside in a clear plastic bag. There's got to be
• 40:08
  something more to the story, I think. So the fact that you're doing that, I
• 40:13
  think, is great. I think it's really great.
• 40:18
  It also, it also, I think, adds value because it's a reusable bag that you can
• 40:21
  use for other stuff. So it adds a little bit of value. And I haven't thought
• 40:25
  about it up until now, but you could also make the argument that it's more
• 40:28
  environmentally friendly because it's a It's a fabric bag, but we, we haven't
• 40:32
  made that. Like, we haven't mentioned anything like that. No one knows that
• 40:35
  they're going to come in fabric bags. So yeah, that's something that I'm telling
• 40:39
  now the first time, and then the people who order from us are going to find out
• 40:42
  when they open.
• 40:46
  Yeah, yeah. Delight and surprise. I think that's such a good way. No, I think
• 40:50
  it's a good way of doing it. I do. And I think if it grows, you know, let's say
• 40:55
  you're doing, you know, 1,000 shorts a week, and I hope you do, you know, I, I
• 41:00
  would Again, do things that delight and surprise, like, okay, well, these are
• 41:04
  summer shorts, so I'm going to go to a manufacturer of SPF, for example, and I'm
• 41:09
  going to have Nordic Dudes, um, white-labeled SPF, uh, or chafe cream or
• 41:13
  whatever, do you know what I mean? And just, I'm gonna throw some of those in
• 41:18
  the bag, and you're just like, all these little things, all these bits, and, um,
• 41:23
  they, they cost pennies to do. Like, I remember with our beauty company We went
• 41:27
  from every, all our competitors put their products in a Jiffy bag, which are
• 41:32
  these sort of padded envelopes. And we're like, well, let's do one better. Let's
• 41:37
  put everything in a box. And so we did. We got these boxes and then we're like,
• 41:41
  let's make the box feel good. You know, we put some nice sort of text on the
• 41:46
  inside. Great. And then we were like, actually, when we surveyed our customers,
• 41:50
  we realised quite quickly what they were buying wasn't skincare. They were
• 41:55
  buying a gift for themselves, like a treat. Do you see what I mean? And so we're
• 42:00
  like, let's make this thing like a mad gift. And so we added another flap to the
• 42:04
  cardboard box. So it felt like you were opening something. And then there was
• 42:09
  tissue paper that you had to sort of, and there was a nice smell. And then the
• 42:14
  packaging material, because we wanted to do something that was a bit different
• 42:18
  to the plastic bubbles, that was a bit more fun. We used popcorn and we, and the
• 42:23
  customers loved it. And we had popcorn machines like all over the warehouse,
• 42:27
  just Constantly making popcorn. It was great if you wanted a low-calorie snack,
• 42:32
  right? I think it's just like popcorn smell everywhere. And the whole thing,
• 42:37
  when we added up the extra cost, I think the boxes were the same price. The
• 42:41
  tissue paper cost like 1 or 2 pence a sheet. And the popcorn cost maybe an extra
• 42:46
  2 or 3 pence per parcel. So you're talking like less than 10 pence or 10 cents
• 42:51
  to upgrade the packaging to a gift opening experience. What happened was, all of
• 42:55
  a sudden, it went from people using social media just to complain about
• 43:00
  something. All the social media posts became about the popcorn. Everybody loved
• 43:04
  the popcorn. All the— we got emails every day from people going, this is
• 43:09
  amazing. You're using popcorn. It's really tasty. And we're like, we had to
• 43:14
  start sending out notes saying, please don't eat this. This is not produced in a
• 43:18
  food-safe environment. This is just a biodegradable packaging material that's a
• 43:23
  bit of fun. And it just was great. And I would say that was one of the key
• 43:28
  things that we did, which massively changed our retention ratio on our business
• 43:32
  to way above industry averages. No one else was doing popcorn. In fact, if I'd
• 43:37
  have thought about it at the time, I'd have renamed the company Popcorn Beauty
• 43:41
  or something like that. I see. Because there's something about that that is
• 43:46
  magical.
• 43:52
  I think that's really creative. I love it. I've never heard of anything like
• 43:56
  that, but I think that you deserve those above industry average conversion rates
• 44:00
  and all that because I think that's great. I love it.
• 44:05
  Well, yeah, kudos to the team for making it happen. I'm just a crazy guy that
• 44:09
  sits there and goes, let's try popcorn. But it's the guys in the warehouse
• 44:13
  going, I'm going to slap you silly because of all your crazy ideas. But I think
• 44:18
  the more you can create a remarkable opening experience, the more you're going
• 44:22
  to create a loyal customer base, right? Yeah. So have a great product and have a
• 44:26
  great opening experience, and you, and you'll do really well.
• 44:30
  That's another thing we thought about as well with the packaging, was that if
• 44:35
  it's a box, there's the risk that it's going to get squished with the weight or
• 44:39
  how they handle it. But with a bag, you don't really have that same problem
• 44:43
  because it's mouldable, so to speak. So it changes based on, you know, how, you
• 44:47
  know, you understand what I mean.
• 44:51
  Yeah, I do. Totally.
• 44:53
  You don't break the box, so to speak, because if you have a really premium box
• 44:57
  but it's broken when it arrives, then that completely tanks the experience. So
• 45:01
  that was one of the other reasons why we chose a bag over the box.
• 45:05
  Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. So can I be as bold as to ask, when do you think
• 45:09
  you'll launch?
• 45:13
  The whole idea is as soon as we get the shorts, but that doesn't really say
• 45:18
  much. But hopefully we have it by this fall. So September or October is where I
• 45:24
  hope that we actually have a website up and you can actually buy the shorts
• 45:30
  online on our website.
• 45:36
  Okay. Very good.
• 45:38
  But I've been on previous podcasts where they've asked that and then something
• 45:42
  happened and then we were really close with a different manufacturer to pretty
• 45:46
  much ready to make the order and then they just stopped responding and they were
• 45:50
  not interested anymore. And then we had to restart with a new manufacturer. So
• 45:54
  you never really know. It's unpredictable and it's frustrating and that's why
• 45:58
  it's one of the reasons why it's taken longer than we thought. So, but
• 46:02
  September, October is what I hope that we're going to launch.
• 46:06
  Fantastic. What's one bit of advice you wished you'd have known at the start? So
• 46:11
  if someone's listening to this show, they're starting their own e-com business,
• 46:15
  they're doing the same thing as you, they're researching, they're sampling
• 46:20
  whatever industry they're in. What's, what's one bit of advice you wish someone
• 46:24
  had told you at the start that would have been really helpful?
• 46:31
  The 2 main things that I think I wish I would have known is it takes longer than
• 46:35
  you think, and it's more— probably going to be more difficult than what you
• 46:40
  think. Those are the 2 main things that I wish I would have known. And then the
• 46:44
  solution I have to that, or my little solution, is to take it one step at a
• 46:48
  time.
• 46:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:54
  And because it's easy to start thinking about all the things you have to do,
• 46:57
  because our to-do list is endless, and it gets longer and longer and longer. And
• 47:01
  then most of the things we never even do. You just have to prioritize the things
• 47:04
  that are most important. So it can be very overwhelming sometimes thinking about
• 47:08
  all the things you have to do, and instead just focus on, okay, what's the most
• 47:11
  important thing that I can do right now to get a little bit closer to where I
• 47:15
  want to go?
• 47:18
  Such good advice. Such good advice. And one final question for you, Gabriel.
• 47:23
  Have you What's been your strategy in building your email list, this sort of
• 47:27
  list which you've been, you know, trying to get emails, which I think is a very
• 47:32
  smart thing, by the way. I'm curious how you've grown it.
• 47:37
  So it started off with, first we added all the pre-orders, the people that
• 47:41
  pre-ordered from us. We asked them as well, can we put you on the email list?
• 47:46
  And everyone said yes who pre-ordered. And then we've done a little bit of
• 47:51
  different things. So we've done We've done a little bit of Facebook ads, but
• 47:56
  that turned out— we again didn't really know what we were doing, so that cost a
• 48:00
  little bit of money, but we got a significant amount of subscribers from that.
• 48:05
  And then we've done manual as well, where we reach out to people or talk— I've
• 48:10
  talked with people on— because I'm wearing a hat that is our logo.
• 48:14
  Yeah.
• 48:15
  And when— if someone asks me about it, I used to tell, oh, it's my business and
• 48:19
  this is where if you're interested, you can sign up here. So we have gotten a
• 48:24
  couple of subscribers that way. And now we are starting to get a little bit of
• 48:28
  subscribers from also the blog. We've gotten like 2 or 3 subscribers from that,
• 48:32
  I think. We just started 2 weeks ago, so it's not— we hope it gets a little bit
• 48:36
  better, but we're trying to find free ways to get people to sign up because the
• 48:41
  Facebook ads was—
• 48:45
  Yeah.
• 48:46
  You know, a little bit too expensive and it just adds more money to an already
• 48:50
  expensive thing that takes a lot of time and money.
• 48:54
  Yeah, that's a fair comment. That's a fair comment. I think as much free traffic
• 48:58
  as is humanly possible is a good idea. So yeah, the more you can do that and the
• 49:03
  emails will be more and more valuable when they— so that's really great. That's
• 49:07
  really, really great. Gabriel, listen, I'm aware of the time, and time—I said to
• 49:11
  you at the start when we start chatting away, time just disappears, right? Yeah,
• 49:16
  it just—it just goes. At least it does in my head. I'm like, hang on, we've just
• 49:20
  started. I've got forty thousand on my piece of paper. I've got a lot more
• 49:24
  questions. But time, alas, is against us. If people—I know you've mentioned it
• 49:29
  earlier, but let's just mention it again. Where do people go to find out about
• 49:33
  Nordic dudes, about what you're doing? Maybe see the blog, sign up to the
• 49:38
  newsletter, and. God willing, also order some of your fabulous shorts. Where do
• 49:42
  we do that?
• 49:46
  So to sign up, it will be on nordicdudes.com. That's where also our email list
• 49:52
  and newsletter, and that's our big thing. That's where we put our most effort
• 49:57
  into is sending a weekly email. And we haven't missed an email in, I think, 100
• 50:02
  weeks at this point, which is pretty crazy. It's been difficult sometimes. And
• 50:07
  then we— you can also read our blog posts. We have 3 blog posts, I think, now
• 50:13
  up. We started 2 weeks ago, and those are the main things. And then we also have
• 50:18
  Instagram, and I also do a personal brand where I share a little bit of what I
• 50:23
  learn and the things that I do with Nordic Dudes on YouTube as well. So I make
• 50:29
  videos on YouTube a little bit about what I learned and the things that have
• 50:34
  worked for me and, and things like that. So Nordic Dudes Instagram, and if you
• 50:39
  want to follow me personally, I do YouTube videos with Gabriel Lindh on YouTube.
• 50:44
  Fantastic. We will of course put all of those links in the show notes, which
• 50:49
  will be on your podcast app, uh, on the YouTube channel, uh, in the description,
• 50:54
  in the newsletter if you subscribe to the newsletter, or on the website
• 50:58
  ecommercepodcast.net if you're happening to be passing by there. Uh, but
• 51:03
  Gabriel, Gabriel, listen, uh, firstly, thank you for coming on the show, and
• 51:07
  secondly, may I wish you all the best with this venture. And I will be watching
• 51:12
  with great anticipation, uh, for you. And yeah, I just hope you have a really
• 51:16
  successful journey, man. It sounds awesome.
• 51:21
  Thank you very much. It was great being on here, and I really appreciate your,
• 51:23
  your support.
• 51:26
  Fantastic. Well, there you go, ladies and gentlemen, uh, that is That's the
• 51:30
  conclusion of today's episode of the eCommerce Podcast. If you're listening to
• 51:33
  the show and you are a founder yourself, or like Gabriel, you're maybe just
• 51:37
  starting out your ecommerce journey, we would love to talk to you and maybe also
• 51:41
  get you on the show if you're brave enough to come and share the story. It
• 51:45
  wasn't that bad, was it, Gabriel? We were okay.
• 51:49
  It was great. I loved it.
• 51:50
  Great. We're not that scary. It's okay. So yeah, come on to the show, share your
• 51:54
  story, because everybody listens to these stories with founders and just, they
• 51:58
  always get the highest engagement because we're just, we're all in the same boat
• 52:02
  in many ways. And so, uh, come and do that. Let us know if you're in an e-com
• 52:06
  business, uh, and would like to come on the show. Just go to
• 52:10
  ecommercepodcast.net, click the Be a Guest link, and connect with us that way.
• 52:14
  Be great to hear from you. Uh, but that's it from me. Thank you so much for
• 52:18
  joining us. Have a phenomenal week wherever you are. But from Gabriel and
• 52:22
  myself, uh, that's it. We'll speak to you soon. Bye for now.