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Holding Space: How to Help Others Through Difficult Seasons · #BeMoreLobster

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: A path that each of us will walk together at some point is caring for someone that we love through a hard time.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that is illness, grief, heartache, divorce, life change, each of us at some point, and probably more likely the older we get, will step up and step into a role of support.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in my experience, there are no rules for this.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: We've never done it before.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: We don't quite know what we're doing.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easy for us to get stuck in like what should we do?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And thinking it's not enough, and how can we do more to support them?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And underneath that, all the time knowing that whatever we do or say, we cannot remove their pain, but we can help them to hold it.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is going to be a really lovely, touching conversation.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that's very close to my heart.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to speak to any of you that are going through a change, or maybe you've had the experience, you've been in support, and now maybe you feel like a little bit traumatized by it, or you're still struggling with the grief and the sadness that comes with that.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: So let's grab a cup of tea and let's have this conversation together.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've been thinking about this conversation and I asked myself the question, what kick like what kicked this off?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Why now?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a couple of things, really.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was the fact that a couple of weeks ago, one of my dear friends lost her dad, and it kind of brought all the stuff up from when I lost my dad.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a friend who's navigating a journey of her own and her husband's got cancer.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it made me think about how the people that are supporting the one that was ill don't get support or don't always get the support that I need.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was certainly what my experience of my mum looking after my dad.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Then it led me to leave them thinking about my dad and how it's changed my life, but also what that process was like.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm starting a new role as a trustee at the hospice when my dad passed away.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had all these things kind of like bubbling around in my brain.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just thinking about how difficult it can be to support somebody.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's not even include ourselves in that.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole other podcast.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: But how we can support somebody and feel like we're doing enough, we're doing the right thing.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when my friend messaged me, it reminded me of how people showed up for me in my grief.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And after the obligatory, I'm sorry for your loss text messages that came in, because it's not something I really posted on social media.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think for me, that wasn't the place for it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had a few of my friends who kind of just dropped off the planet and went very silent.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I have divorced myself from those relationships.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was a decision.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I had a couple of friends that checked in with me from time to time.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I had another couple of friends who checked in with me regularly with simple messages like thinking of you, I'm here for anything that you need.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just kind of I just knew they were there.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this gave me the support that I needed, even if I didn't know what I needed, but it also gave me space.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't make assumptions on what it was that I needed.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I found that incredibly important.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's also helped me show up differently for the people that I support now.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I've taken from this that I want to share with you, and you don't have to take it on, but maybe it will just help you, is don't be afraid to tell them that you feel ill-equipped to navigate this particular situation and ask what they need to feel supported and give them permission for this to look different every day.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's so easy for us to assume that we are helping, and it always comes from a space of love.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: But what if that isn't helping them?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if we have that conversation and be honest with them and say, like, I don't know how to navigate this, but I want to make sure that I'm supporting you the best way possible.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've got this two-way street happening, and I found that really, really important.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know that was important until a couple of the specific friends offered me that option and it felt really, really good.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, going back to my dad, when my dad was really sick, I found myself going into control mode.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking about this as well, and honestly, it was very much fueled by my unwillingness to accept that he was dying.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was really, really obvious that his time on earth was coming to an end, and I did not want to accept that.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I spent a lot of time and energy being strong and fighting for his dignity and supporting my mum.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I felt like I did my best to hold space my mum's pain and sadness, which was excruciating to watch and to feel.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And looking back now, it makes total sense how it felt like being a child.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like being that five-year-old where you, you know, you want the people that love you to be happy with you, like it's a conditioned response, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't like to, I didn't like to ever see people unhappy.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm in this situation where I'm watching the the biggest male influence in my life leaving and watching the person that's been with him for 60 years being very stoic because that's their generation, and you know, dealing with it all and feeling like I'm five years old and I don't know what to do.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of went into this control mode.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back now, was that helpful?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: There were definitely some things that made that helpful, as in dealing with consultants and admin staff at the hospital and the hospice.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm really glad I had that ability, but I wonder now, looking back, whether actually I'm answering my own question, it was very much a protective mechanism as well.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have to deal with the things that were really going on.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that leads me to thinking about sometimes in these places where we're being doing our best to be supportive, there are going to be some hard conversations.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you can be completely unprepared for those.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I remember one of the last times my dad we called the paramedics out for my dad.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I just remember him looking at me, and I'm not gonna get upset actually, although I probably am, and him saying to me, I'm just so tired.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that, but I didn't want to accept it, and that was a bit of a turning point for me.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was when I realised that I had to accept it because this was his journey, and um, you know, he wanted to navigate it as best as he could.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um but where do you go when you have those conversations?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where do we get support?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because the supporters need supporting as well.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've got huts in my notes now.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I remember another conversation when he said to me, Look, I know you don't want me to go.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this conversation was a little bit different because he was sat in his chair and my kids were there, my mum was in the kitchen, my twin sister was there, and I was knelt down by his chair, and I know that other people heard it, um, but no one said anything.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I think he was talking to the five-year-old at the time.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna apologize for this, because that's the part of it, isn't it?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: When we when we sweep this under the carpet, when we think, oh my goodness, three and a half years down the line, you should so be over it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you've loved somebody, you've lost somebody, it's very, very real.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why I'm sharing this podcast with you, because I think it's an important conversation to have.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Again, because I think as we get older, we are much more likely to have to navigate these very challenging experiences.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I do not think it's helpful to be very British and put on, you know, the stiff upper lip and uh and just get on with it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to feel that level of support.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think when we think about seeing your child in pain, your young adult in pain, and telling them that the only way over it is through it.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can see now where I have caused more distress, more problems later in life for my children by trying to protect them and keep them away from all those difficult emotions, right?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And all that means is they get to a certain age where they're gonna, they're definitely gonna feel them.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean now they're not equipped with emotional resilience.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're hard conversations to have.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So even supporting your children, in fact, definitely supporting your children can conjure up all these difficult emotions when you're in that place of support.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: What about the conversations that you have where you are supporting someone by asking them to take response responsibility for the result that they have?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a friend or somebody that you love, you know, and you've got a lot of time for, and they've got a result in their life that they are not taking personal responsibility for, that they're blaming something or someone outside of themselves for being in this situation, having that conversation to say, look, yeah, I love you and I'm your friend, or I'm your your whatever relationship you've got, but nothing's gonna change if you don't take responsibility for the for your part in this result.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is a really sticky one, isn't it?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then it got me to thinking about the things that we don't say and what it creates for us in our body when we're not saying it.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, um when when we're thinking, we're talking to the person we're supporting, and we're thinking, you know, you could lose your partner, you could lose your parent, you could lose your friend, like they could pass away, but we're not talking about that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like it's pushed away.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: We know it's a reality, but we don't want to talk about it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've put in here, like, well, you know, you have got a part to play in this, so it leads back into supporting someone by us and then to take responsibility.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times we won't do that because we don't want to create any kind of conflict, and we don't want to feel like we know better, we don't want to feel like we're we're above them.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: But having that silent conversation that we're in having in our head, and we're thinking, but there is a part that you're playing, please see that so you can start making a change.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing that I was thinking about was as we watch someone navigate something very difficult, I feel in I feel fear in my entire body that this could happen to me.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really personal one for me because um I don't think I've ever really worried about my health because I take really good care of myself, but watching my dad fight cancer and what he did to his body has been something that has really triggered me.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I recently had a uh a letter to say I needed to go and have my first mammogram.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I cancelled the first couple because I just didn't want to go.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I just it it put the fear of God in me.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And again, when we're holding these these conversations in our body and we're not expressing them and we're not getting support for them and perspective shifting and all that, what is it doing for us when we're not having these real conversations?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: This today was really a conversation about those times of support when we're supporting somebody through hard times.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: How do we do it and know that it's enough?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: But also, how do we feel support and where do we need to go?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really just more of a conversation rather than any kind of advice.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope you can feel that.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I do have an invitation for you.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: My invitation is let us for just a moment take a pause, take a second, and acknowledge how much unconditional love and tenderness lives in this space, even when it's really hard.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the reason that it's hard is because we love someone so much, because we care about them so much.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we want to extend that back to ourselves when we're in that role of being supporter, like we need to be supported.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to feel adequately, adequately suited and booted as you navigate it.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, forget doing it gracefully, just do it from your heart.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Be led by intuition, be willing to ask some of those harder questions and be willing to preface it with like, I don't know what I'm doing.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you don't know what you're doing, but I want to support you the best way that I can.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I realize is that the the ones that you love, they just appreciate your presence.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the the woman that's just recently lost her dad, um, I'm just messaging her every couple of days to say, I'm thinking of you.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was Father's Day, right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking of you today.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'm here if you need anything.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and I don't always ask how I can support you because sometimes that can be overwhelming.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm I'm creating the space for her to lead, but also just letting her know that I'm always there, even if she doesn't respond.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And listen, you don't need to be perfect in this.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to be the perfect daughter or the perfect friend or the perfect mum or the perfect wife.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to be the wise one, the oracle with all the answers.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: You certainly don't need to be strong in it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: We need to be able to validate your, you know, you need to be able to validate your emotions and your experience of this.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you don't do it in front of the person.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you do.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can have that conversation with them, but don't try and do this perfectly because I don't think there's a rule book for this.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't a perfect way of dealing with something that can feel so incredibly painful and raw.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what I've come to realize looking back, and I used to say to my clients, your wounds become your wisdom, is that in these horrendously difficult times, they offer an opportunity to deepen your relationships.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have a relationship with one particular friend who uh lives on the other side of the world, and she I feel like I want to say she's made me a better person by the way that she showed up for me when I lost my dad.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I am incredibly grateful to her and to her wife for mirroring to me something that I would like to be myself, so you know who you are, and I'm giving you thanks.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are also invitations to create memories.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So when we knew dad's time was short, we were very blessed that we had time.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people don't get that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not just talking about death here, right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've got a busy mate that's getting divorced, and you're like, well, let's create memories.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's not make this transition time for you feel so bad.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's make it a time when you start to remember what you love, when you start to try new things, when you step into this new identity.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like make memories, make memories through the challenging times so that they're not that the challenging times aren't clouded and weighed down in darkness.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: There is light and there is glitter in there, and we can see them in a different way.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, like I said, it comes with wisdom.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: We can't escape these times, they're gonna happen.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Worrying about them ahead of time doesn't serve, but I do that a lot, I'm not gonna lie.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like I say, I think we're I'm at half a century now, and the older we get, potentially, the more challenging we're gonna experience some of these circumstances and we're gonna need to support more people, and maybe you're the one that needs supporting.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna hear this in a different capacity.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Before we wrap up, I want to say this.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you are holding space for someone right now, if you're showing up even in quiet ways, you are doing enough.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you are having the hard conversations, or you're navigating hospital visits, or you're making meals, or you're just sitting silently in the same room, or you're just sending them a WhatsApp just to say, I'm thinking of you, your presence with them in any capacity really, really matters.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't need to look like grand gestures.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it just looks like being still and being there, listening, loving, even through the difficulties.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But take care of your heart too.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode landed with you, if it made you breathe, exhale, feel a little bit less alone, please do share it with somebody that might need to hear this too.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, please come and join us in the Seeking Simplicity community because we are all walking each other home, as Ramdat would say.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Huge love to you.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here and being part of my podcast community, and I'll speak to you again in the next episode.