Latest / The Pressing Play Podcast / Ep3 Pressing Play on your Energy without Burning Out with Special Guest Selina Barker
Transcript
- Jo Fiddy: Hello and welcome to the Pressing Play podcast. I am absolutely personally thrilled to be joined here today by the incredible Selena Barker. She is a speaker, an author of Burnt Out, The Exhausted Person's Guide to Thriving in a Fast-Paced World, a coach who's personally helped me design a life that I love. I went from PR to here, thanks to the incredible Selena. And Selena's work is all about helping us rethink our energy. And what I love about Selena is she's talking about in Time to Thrive, how she explores the idea that we're not in a time crisis, but an energy crisis, Which I feel that so many women are feeling ⁓ right now. Selena Barker, thank you so much for coming on the pod. Selina: Jo, this is such a joy on just so many levels, first of all, because this is something that you dreamed up in our coaching sessions and now it's here, real, it's happening. And it is just so amazing to see you in your power. Like I just, I think this podcast is going to be, and is already such an important podcast for women. You've also really... Jo Fiddy: Yeah. Selina: empowered me in approaching perimenopause and menopause in a way that I just didn't actually know was possible. Like I'm genuinely excited about it. Yes, there are challenges and more challenges to come for sure. But I, yeah, I think it's, it's so exciting. I'm like, this is renovation period, baby. Jo Fiddy: Absolutely. It's the renovation period and there's so much more to come. And what I love about this conversation and what we're going to be talking about, because I'm sure there's so many women who are thinking about pressing play and they're like, I'm exhausted and I'm really tired and this is just the way it is. And I think before we actually unpack all of that and get into it, what first led you into this work? How did this all start for you? Selina: Mm-hmm. So with writing burnt out, was literally like what you've just said there. I mean, this was back when I was in my early thirties and I had been coaching people already, career change coaching predominantly for a number of years. And I was noticing more and more people coming to me because they were burnt out. And then I started having what I call mini burnout. So every three months or so I would push myself, push myself, push myself, burning the candle at both ends. I didn't yet. have a child, which would have added further, you know, challenges to that. But even without a child and working for myself and doing work that I loved, I still managed to push myself to the point of mini burnout. So being completely brain frazzled, like to the point that, you know, one of the symptoms of burnout is decision, decision fatigue. And I remember standing, trying to choose a packet of crisps to help me get home and, and almost bursting into tears because I couldn't choose. What flavor of crisps? And I was like, uh-oh, I've done it again. And I would be in this cycle about every three months. So I started going through this sort of being trapped in this burnout cycle. And I was noticing more and more of my friends talking about being completely frazzled, either saying that they were burnt out or talking about symptoms that sounded like burnout. And I just took a step back and I was like, wait, what is going on? Like we are... Jo Fiddy: Mmm. Selina: designed to thrive. Our bodies and our brains are made for it and yet we're just accepting this level of exhaustion, stress and burnout and saying well that's just how life is. I was like and it really riled me and I was like this is not how life is supposed to be and the moment I get that It's a wonderful mix, just wanting to get on my soapbox and I'm rallying crime like, no, it will not be this way. And so I actually was speaking to a publisher at the time and I said, well, I'm in a book we all need is, you know, How to Stop Burning Out. She was like, ⁓ my God, that is the book we all need. Write that one. was like, but I'm not like a burnout expert. She was like, you've been coaching people out of burnout through career coaching for years and years. Like, write the book. So actually, Burnt Out was a combination of me going on a mission to understand why are we burning out, but more importantly, what can we do about it? Because there are great books out there on why we're burning out and societal reasons, the cultural reasons and all the rest of it. But I wanted to write a book that was like having a coach by your side that really meets you where you're at. And in fact, the first part of the book, I say, if you're really, really burnt out and frazzled, I'm to give you these five tips and then close the book. Your poor frazzled mind does not need to take on more information and come back when you're feeling more, more like yourself. Treat this like you've got really bad flu. Like council your plans, get into bed. You need to rest. You need to cry into the pillow. You need to admit that enough. And, and for me, burnout is your body and your brain, your wise body and brain saying, this is not sustainable. It pull it's like pulling the plug. It goes on strike your brain. If it's if it's brain frazzled kind of burnout, it's like your brain goes on strike. It's like enough. We can't carry on like this. And you haven't listened to our earlier warnings. So now watch this. And it just, you know, that's it. It forces you. It forces you into bed. And and it. Yeah. No, go on. ⁓ there she is. ⁓ Jo Fiddy: Absolutely, and I have to show, ⁓ highly recommend this fabulous book, Burnt Out. Really, it is absolutely fantastic. It really, really, really is. And I love how you're talking about that, how not listening to our bodies and we're going at a certain level. And I think, do you think there's an element where as women we're like, this is just the norm? We're supposed to feel this way. This is exactly how it's supposed to be. Do you find that working with people? Selina: Yeah! 100 % like we are in our particularly in our world of work, but in the world of parenting as well, there's an accepted amount of tiredness and exhaustion and stress that we, yeah, we just, we've normalized it so much that we don't even think to do anything about it. Well, everyone else is feeling that. And that doesn't mean that, that doesn't mean we should just accept it. That just means we've got a massive crisis. We'd like, we'd like. Jo Fiddy: Yes. Selina: There's just a huge problem that's going on, not, well, everyone feels like that. That must just be how life is. And I really do. Even after I'd broken free from my burnout cycle, I felt fatigued for most of my adult life. Then I had a child, that fatigue continued, surprise, surprise. And actually it wasn't until I wrote Burnt Out that I landed on this whole idea, this whole concept of manage your energy, not your time from Tony Schwartz. Jo Fiddy: Yeah. Selina: He wrote an article for Harvard and it was huge, it went viral. And when I read those words, manage your energy, not your time, it was like a huge light bulb to me. was like, this is what it is. It's a massive crisis of energy and the way to protect ourselves from burnout and the way to recover from burnout is to look at how to manage our energy. And they have this amazing framework where they look at energy from different sources. So physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. And I then went on to add a fifth one, which is motivational. And so that's what I've been developing over the last six years is teaching people how to manage their energy. the moment, the beauty of it is it's really simple to do. People get it. It seems to be quite intuitive, but... the moment you start putting some of these things into play, your energy does start to increase. I felt my energy increasing within the first few days. Like, I mean, and we all want instant results, right? So, you know, you're only like, take six months, but eventually you'll start, which, you know, I'm all right with that too. The perimenopause journey has taught me that sometimes you have to wait a while for things to, you know, really start working. But I'm glad to say when it comes to managing your energy. Jo Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Selina: I've had people do Time to Thrive, which is very much a sort of toolkit and audio guide. So it's like instantly putting things into action straight away. I've had people say to me, well, 15 minutes of reading it and I've had the best night's sleep I've had in ages. And it's not rocket science. It was because one of them opened up, she was reading it in bed and listening to the audio and the first physical energy zone section starts obviously with sleep. And it said, if you're really struggling with Jo Fiddy: Amazing. Selina: getting enough sleep at the moment, one of the things you could do is go to bed early. And she went, do you know what? I to go to bed right now. So she went to sleep at 9.30 and she was like, who'd thought? It was like she had a baby and she was like, ⁓ my God, I I could go to bed earlier and then get more hours that way. And it's often such simple things that we've either forgotten or had just got stuck in this mindset of there's no way out of this. I'm stuck like this and accepting it that we don't see that there are actually not always sometimes, you know, it takes more than something that simple, but more often than not, it's really simple stuff. We already know how to do it. We already know it's good for us, but it's actually recognizing that we can use that as a tool to keep our energy topped up and understanding how we work as energetic beings that we are not machines. that we're supposed to keep topping our energy up throughout the day. And it's these perspectives that can really have completely transformed it for me. I've never felt more energized than I do now. In my late forties as a mum, way more so than I did in my early thirties when I was footloose and fancy free and had no care in the world and was exhausted all the time, burning myself out. And now I'm perimenopausal and I can still say it. You know? Jo Fiddy: Ha ha ha. Oh, I love this. I love this. And I love what you're saying. Because I think, again, we feel this is our identity. But how many times do you hear that I'm burnt out, I'm tired, and you think there may be something wrong with me, or this is how it is. But when you look, actually, there's things that you can do to change your life. It's so powerful. It's so powerful. And especially when you're in perimenopause, and especially when your body and everything is changing around you. So if someone's listening right now, and they're feeling What's the first thing I can do? I know you mentioned sleep. If they're looking at the zones, what's the first one that they could focus on? Selina: So what I look at now is the five energy zones of physical, emotional, mental, motivational and spiritual. What I would also say is taking a step back from that is that we burn out in different ways and our burnout symptoms can look very different. So one of the things I did ⁓ in burnt out was I identified, because I interviewed hundreds of people who been through burnout and I just, and I recognized that actually burnout was looking really different. to people, but there were these patterns. So I recognize that some people burn out on a real kind of physical level from just being on their feet all the time, never stopping, never resting. And I call that, and so I came up with these burnout archetypes that are different ways of behaving. And so that's the overdoer. Then you've got the over giver and they burn out in a sort of compassion fatigue way. They're giving, they're giving, they're giving, overextending all the time saying yes, when really they want to say no. And their burnout looks like... compassion, fatigue, teary, very emotional. I just want everyone to back away. Sometimes also feeling resentful. You everyone else's needs are being looked after. Who's not looking, you know, who's looking after me? You've got mental burnout. So that's the brain frazzled burnout. And that's often from the overthinker, also the overachiever. So they're just very much in their heads, like, and, and. The beauty of these burnout archetypes, I realized that these are the shadow sides of our greatest strengths. So the over giver, you did the burnout archetypes quiz. I've got a free one that people could do and you're the over giver, aren't you? Jo Fiddy: I am 100 % the over giver. I feel I scored 100 % and please do go. It's so good. It's such an incredible, incredible way to find out who you are. And when I read it, I was like, ⁓ yes, that's me. And this speaks to me. This speaks to my soul. So please tell us more. Selina: I knew you'd be the over-giver. Of course. Yeah. Well, over-giver when they're in their full power, they love being caring. They love being there for people. It lights them up. They love connection. They want to be there for their family, their friends, their colleagues, their clients, strangers in the street. But when they kick into overdrive and they get into that stress zone, their behaviour then becomes, it's like your superpower has had too much coffee and is highly adrenalized and now it's gone a bit sort of berserk. And you can't stop giving and you're giving at your own detriment. And once you get stuck in that, it's like a vicious cycle. And the more you do that, the more you're depleting, particularly your emotional energy zone. And then you've got the overachiever that's tends to be quite mental energy. So that's brain frazzle, that's decision fatigue, that's feeling ⁓ perhaps either really ⁓ but you've also then the feeling like you don't care anymore. about the stuff that you used to really care about, you know, your work, your hobbies, maybe the things you used to get really excited about. It's like a damp blanket has just gone over everything. And the underlying experience everyone has when they're burnt out, I think is that feeling you just can't cope anymore. just haven't got, and what you haven't got is the energy to just put one step in front of the other anymore because you are so energy depleted. And like I say, where energy depletion is, can be in these different energy zones. Usually when you're burnt out, ⁓ every single energy is like ⁓ rock bottom. The to start and actually in the burnout archetypes quiz, you get whatever result you get, you also get ⁓ a sort of whole, ⁓ whole download about burnout archetype, how to spot the signs when you're heading into your burnout archetype, sort of behaviors ⁓ and five top tips for what you in your burnout archetype particularly need to help get your energy back. But for everyone, starting with physical energy, like that is the fuel. That's the fuel in the car, without it nothing else works. It impacts on all the other energy zones. So it's always the physical energy is the place to start. So it is the obvious stuff. Sleep. rest, relaxation, movement. Movement is so important. And when you're really burnt out, rather than a HIIT workout, I would go for gentle movement, and things like food and plenty of water. But then you move into the other energy zones. And actually, if there aren't a lot of over givers listening, because usually there are, ⁓ feeling your feelings, ⁓ really important ⁓ You know, think when we ⁓ are burning out, we're just so used to being on that treadmill, never stopping, don't look at it, don't feel it, just keep going, that we can really become detached from our feelings. So, you know, often that turning point is that moment of just floods of tears on the kitchen floor, I can't go on. And I'm always, when people hit those moments, I'm like, yay, rock bottom, because it means there's only one way to go from here, and it is up. And actually, I was interviewing someone the other day, and she was talking about her rock bottom, and she said, Actually, what we forget about the rock bottom is it's rock, it's solid. So that's why when we sort of, when we, know, that moment of crying, floods of hot tears, I can't go on, there's sort of interesting solidness to that moment, because actually in that moment, we're really just finally admitting to how we're feeling, and it's not okay that I'm feeling this way, rather than like, Well, this is just how life is. I'm burnt out. On we go. I'm always like, ⁓ no, that's a much scarier place than the person who's unraveled on the kitchen floor in snotty tears because that person who's like, ⁓ I'm burnt out, but you know, this is life. Let's carry on. I'm like, the fall is to come. The fall is to come. ⁓ Jo Fiddy: But it's true, that's so powerful, isn't it? That you say that it's actually, rock bottom is solid. And it is, it is solid, it's a solid place. And I've definitely had the burnout merchandise, and I'm sure you have as well. And it is a moment where it's like, you can only go up. And I think there is hope in that. And especially as we're going through perimenopause and midlife, it feels like everything is shifting. It's knowing that you can, we're going up from here. And I love the way you're giving burnout so much language, like your energy zones, you're giving... Selina: Yes! Jo Fiddy: a language to how we are feeling. And it's not just we're burnt out, but this is what you can do by focusing on the different zones on your body or in your life and really helping yourself come back to life. And I love that it's just simple. There's not big things that you have to do. It's really simple things that you can do. first, so step one, wasn't it? Notice your archetype. ⁓ I'm, you know, I'm an over ⁓ Selina: Yeah. Yeah! Jo Fiddy: working on it, babes, I'm working on it. know, do the quiz, find out who you are and find out what level, find out where you're burnt out and then go and look at the zones in Time to Fribe and look at what areas of your life you could just start to, would you say, just start to dial up. Selina: Oh, 100 % and that's beauty of it. Like when I first started looking at these energy zones back when I was writing burnt out, the one that I was like, I was like spiritual energy. don't even know who, I didn't know what that is. I let alone what to do about it. But I was like, but I could tell there was all sorts of resistance around it. And now I'm like, oh, spiritual energy. Like, you know, there's so many tools for that. It's meditation. Jo Fiddy: Yeah. Selina: It's getting out in nature, but like really being in it. It's dancing and really being in the music. Like, you know, I had all this stuff around, had to be to do with beliefs and I didn't know what those beliefs were. If I had, no, no, no, no, no, let's just strip it back. So it's all the journey. And you know, someone the other day was saying she was doing Time to Thrive and she was in the physical energy section. She went, well, I've realized that I don't know how to relax. I was like, great. Great, so that's the area for you to focus on. And you know, other people want to go straight to the motivational energy and go, I don't even know what direction I want to go in life. I find it hard to like get out of bed in the morning and start my day. Go to motivational energy then, start there. ⁓ And yeah, absolutely. I mean, the thing is, like I was saying, the moment I had this framework of understanding how to manage my energy, And I was writing burnt out during the pandemic with a four year old in the house who just started reception and now me and my husband were being his teachers, which did not go well. Like with all of that going on, I was starting to use these tools to manage my energy and starting to feel more energized than I had done my whole adult life. And I was in the pandemic writing a book with a four year old at home that we also had to homeschool and all of the Jo Fiddy: joyful. Selina: stress that was going on at that time. And it was because I was doing things like understanding to keep my brain fresh while I was writing, movement, exercise. I started exercising for the first time really in my adult life. Realized it, because I hadn't realized it gives you energy. I just thought it was a way to control our bodies. And I was like, no, thank you. So was like, so I won't exercise. And also the other reason I didn't exercise was because, my mum and my husband were saying all the time, Jo Fiddy: us. Selina: You're so tired all the time, you just need to exercise. I was like, I just told you I don't have energy. Why am I going to use up even more energy by exercising? Cause I thought I was like a machine. thought you started the day with a set amount of energy and then you used it up and I didn't want to waste it on exercise. Cause I had other stuff I wanted to spend it on. I didn't realize that actually we are, if you know, if we're like a phone or a machine, we're also happened to be our own. energy sources that we also plug into ourselves. So I didn't realise that energy, that exercise gives you energy. It was like, I still, it still astonishes me to this day. Like how I can go, you know, feeling tired, like in the afternoon and exhausted, a bit of movement, get my, you know, my, my heart beating and my, and my pulse racing. And suddenly I've got loads more energy. It's like, it's like magic, simple stuff. Jo Fiddy: I love it. That's what I really love because I think also there's so much if you're on social media and it is great, know, as women we are, you know, we've told to lift heavier, do weights, you I think we've never felt we have to train more in our life now we're in our forties and beyond. But actually I think there is something missing in the messaging that actually helps us with our energy. you know, it's topping up your energy in other ways. So for me, I love when the weather's nice, like today, I bike and get my kids. And that 3pm bike ride does wonders or walk or do something for my body in the afternoon. And I find that, do you feel this? I don't rely on caffeine, which isn't always my best friend nowadays. so that could really help me with energy. So I love that you said that. Selina: Hmm. Yeah, ⁓ my goodness, but all of this is about learning these little tips and tricks on simple stuff you can do that you're like you say you have to go and pick up your kids. So you trade the car in for the bicycle and suddenly that becomes an activity that's also recharging your batteries. This is what I mean. you know, the idea that the last thing I want to do for people who already got their plates overloaded is to add extra stuff onto their plate. would be the worst feeling in the world if I thought I was doing that. What I'm showing people is how to, yeah, manage your energy, how to learn these tricks and tools that you can weave in, not as an extra, but like, well, if you did it that way, ⁓ yeah, like, you know, say for parents who their kids are, maybe they've got little toddlers and they're doing finger painting. Get involved, roll your sleeves up, spend 15 minutes finger painting, not for them, for you. And see how you feel after some play and some silliness. and some creativity that you're not trying, there's no expectation on how it's gonna look, for you, not to entertain the child, not to keep them company, I mean that's great, that's also going on, but for you, it can make such a difference. So it's just, yeah, shifting how we do things and adding things in. So you shouldn't have to be doing extra, you shouldn't have to be doing more. It's just all about the energy, Jo Fiddy: I love the energy. I feel so inspired. And I love what you said about play. Because do we play enough? Are we playing enough? Let's go back to machines, isn't it? It's like, can't play, can't play. But actually, when we play, and in perimenopause, dopamine does go down. And so by playing and tapping up that energy, then you're bringing the dopamine back in. And so we feel better. So it's all about working on that dopamine, isn't it? And getting us and helping our bodies as we age and bringing that in. Selina: No. But I mean, I think that we're basically very closely having the same conversation. Energy, dopamine, like managing your dopamine, managing your energy. It's the sort of same kind of framework. And that dopamine, that's very much in the sort of emotional energy, but it's also in the physical energy zone. But what I love about your press play is that play is such... is so essential. It's how we experience being human. And play is such an important topic. It's one that is not talked about enough. And I think what you've done with the beauty, I think of perimenopause and menopause is that it takes the mask off. Our tolerance for things that, well, that's just how life is suddenly goes, ta-da. So if you haven't addressed any of the issues, any of the things going on, This is the time, like there's no escaping it now. And so I think one of the things is our lack of play in life and just your kind of this approach to play as being, not really the antidote, is it? I would say the answer is the need actually behind perimenopause and menopause. It's really essential, but I think also perimenopause and menopause take the mask off our lack of play. I mean, play is a topic absolutely fascinates me. I've been studying ⁓ the topic play. did my dissertation at university on it. play is so essential to feel connected with ourselves, to feel connected with life. There's a deep spiritual element to it. There's a playful, joyful, fills up your emotional energy zone element to it. It's how you get to know yourself. It's how you get to find your path in life. So with my career coaching, I've always been about projects, experimenting, playing has always been a huge part of it. There's that fun element in play that I think we lose as we do more and more adulting and become more and more grown up, which I think is a terrible idea for most people. ⁓ So yeah, I think. I think you have not accidentally at all. think you have chosen one of the most potent forces there are for all humans. But I think, yeah, why not have the middle-aged women reclaiming their power through play? It's genius. Jo Fiddy: Yeah Selina: yeah I hadn't connected this before but yeah really really powerful it's one of the most powerful ⁓ vibrations is play you know Jo Fiddy: play, joy, and finding, I think you can find yourself through play and having fun again. Selina: That is how you find yourself. That is how you find yourself, is through play. And play, doesn't, people can think of play being frivolous, that people can think of play being something just children do. Play is honestly what makes us, I mean animals play as well, but play is how we grow, is how we connect with ourselves, it's how we connect with others. And it can be serious. If you look at child playing, they can get really serious about how they play. My entire way that I've created a career, which I love and have loved in the 20 years I've been on this career path, has been defined by how much I play. And finding ways to do that outside of work has been more my challenge, particularly as a parent, particularly as I'm getting into this. That's been one of my biggest challenges and I think I'm starting to get it now. I always thought play for me, Jo Fiddy: Yeah. you Selina: I got it tangled up in my younger days when I was out partying a lot and dancing and you know, just lots of socialising and now I'm realising that, I hadn't realised until this moment this is what's been going on, rediscovering what play really means to me and its creativity, its imagination through reading, its pottering around in the garden. I have no idea how to look after a garden but once I've got my hands in the soil, it's play. Jo Fiddy: Mm. Selina: It's playing. Yeah, it's key. Jo Fiddy: is, I love this so, so much. Selina: You are so clever. You are so clever to put this at the heart of the menopause journey. Of course. And it's what everyone needs. It's not just what menopausal women need, Let's have it for ourselves. ⁓ Jo Fiddy: Bye! Yeah, we do. Because I think also what's coming for us, I just think the language is so powerful. You know, we're told we're going to go into our pause and post years of our life. How does that? And it's like, I mean, is it any wonder that we feel like, ⁓ and so it is plain. I love what you're doing. I love how you're giving a language to how we're feeling in burnout and ways that we can speak to our energy in five ways that we can bring our energy back. And I have to talk about Selina: Yeah. Hmm. Jo Fiddy: And as you know, I'm a huge fan, huge fan of Selena's journals. I've got them out. Hang on, are they all here? Hold on. Da da da. ⁓ I've got all of them here. Most of them here. Please. Selina: ⁓ look! Have you had done all nine? It's showing the goodbye hello journals. Yeah, it's the 10th edition coming up this year. Jo Fiddy: These are absolutely fantastic. ⁓ to give them a nod while we're here and living another way. We have to give them a nod because they're so fantastic. I love what you've done with the journals. I know that this was such a ⁓ passion project to begin with, wasn't it? A belief that you had. ⁓ this start, you started the journals in your camper van. Is that correct? Have I got that right? When you thought about, yeah, talk us through this and what your beautiful journals are because the world needs to know. Selina: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I... So I, when I hit 30 and I had every plan to be married with two kids by the time I was 30, that was my dream of my childhood, my teens and in my twenties. I was like, wow, you really were the product of your society in the world in which I grew up in. That was the dream. And not knocking, having that, but I was like, there are other things you could have been doing. Turns out I did have to find other things to do because by the time I hit 30, was a very single, definitely didn't have kids. And so I was left with this sort of idea of like, right, so this is not the life I had dreamed of. I'm have to create something else. I've got a blank canvas. What do I want to do? And I was just like, I'd always had this dream with my partner that I didn't have to ⁓ go camper vanning, like around the world, around Europe. So I bought a little yellow camper van, decided not to do Europe. I'm gonna stick with the UK, because I was like, but I don't even know the UK well. I've lived in London this short time in Newcastle for university my whole life. I like, I want to get to know the UK. So I set off traveling and working for my little camper van named Beryl for six months, taking my friends on all sorts of adventures, fell in love with... the British countryside. I went to Cornwall, I went to the Lake District, went to Wales briefly and I went to Scotland and my goodness what a raw wild beauty she is. mean, ugh. So yeah, so when I was coming to the end of that year, I really wanted, before I stepped into, rushed into another year and all we had was New Year's resolutions, which really, what do they do? I was like, I really want to take a moment and actually reflect on all that I've been through this year, before I step into the next year. I want to reflect on what I'm grateful for, rather than thinking about all the things I don't yet have that I want to have. And then I want to look to the next year because now, now what do I do? Like I have my business in a bag. I was now able to basically a digital nomad, as we called it in those days. I think they still call it that a bit. I was just like, what do I want out of this year? And so I created this little document. I did it, loved it, shared it with family, friends, some of my clients, well, all of my clients, just a few people at that time. And they loved it. And the next year they were like, ⁓ you're gonna do that thing again? I was like, yeah, I guess. And so that's how it started going and started spreading and really started spreading. mean, I've created a lot of worksheets in my time. Do you know what I mean? But this is one that people really liked. And so I started to have this dream of like, ⁓ I'd love it for one day to be something, you know, journal that you can really hold in your hands and fill in. ⁓ And the dream was to see it. And I'm looking at my collection there on my bookshelf, just seeing yours. The dream was that, you know, one day people will have these collections growing on their bookshelf. That's a record. Jo Fiddy: Haha. you Selina: of that year that they lived and also record of the dreams that they had. And it's now fascinating to look back. That's a lesson in itself. You looking back at all the dreams I had this year, in fact, a really big moment of I'd kind of accepted that a lot of the big dreams I'd written in previous years just hadn't come true. And I'd sort of put it to bed and it was disappointing and it was kind of sad. And then I realized that actually I was just hiding from the fact that there were some really important dreams, one of which was to have a full-time journals business. And I was like, hold on a second, why am I putting that to bed? Which of the dreams I'm sad to have waved goodbye to? Bring them back. So it sort of really reignited my, yeah, my dreams and my ambition, which had really ⁓ took a bit of a pummeling, I think, during lockdown and those. lockdown years, I really lost my footing, had a big impact on coaching, no one was getting career coaching in those days. So it was, yeah. So anyway, they are, they have, those journals have really shaped my own life. And it's amazing to see thousands of people, about 25,000 people we've realised have done those journals. Yeah, Jo Fiddy: I mean, it's incredible. And actually, if we're thinking about your journals, these actually started, I think we both turned 40 in the pandemic, didn't we? Just before I was in. And it's incredible that, as you say, it's that pressing play on your journals and having that bumpy time in the pandemic, we're like, oh, I'm not sure, but these journals have really come into fruition now. And they're just so powerful. You have such an amazing club. Selina: Just before yeah Jo Fiddy: ⁓ with Project D.U. and another way. And where can people find your journals right now? Selina: So if you go to projectujournals.com, then you'll find my journals there. And also, well, we can leave the links in the show notes to do the burnout archetypes quiz. And I've also got a free five day energy reset that you can do, which is five minute little audio that you get each morning over five days. And it gives you quick overview of each of those energy zones and one simple thing you can do that day. Jo Fiddy: Yes, we will. Selina: to boost that energy zone, just so I can show people actually how easy it is, because just coming back to the burnout and exhaustion is that so often we finish that statement of I'm burnt out, I'm exhausted with a full stop. That's, it's just like, and there's no, nothing doesn't go any further. What we need to be saying is I'm burnt out, I'm exhausted, right, I need to do something about this. That's what, and that's what managing your energy is. It's like the, Okay, well it means your energy is like incredibly low in some, if not all of those energy zones. So let's take a look at them. And at the start of Time to Thrive, you've got an energy compass. So you have a look and you look at the five energy zones and you rate each one from one to 10. And then you go, you know, to see where you are and which energy zone, you know, really needs. Jo Fiddy: Yes. Selina: to be looked after and need some attention and some love and care. And it's just amazing to discover how quickly with such small things we can boost our energy. And also the other thing I would say as well, and I think this is really important, particularly when we are going through perimenopause and menopause is when we're talking about being energised and full of energy, it doesn't have to be perhaps that almost youthful, rawr, energy. Jo Fiddy: Yeah. Selina: When you're five energy zones are really topped up and flowing and doesn't have to be 100 % to feel good, do you know what I mean? We're also not going for perfection. That energy is grounded. It is deeply connected. It is even when you're going through a tough time, are yourself to just feel those feelings. You feel held by yourself, but also by others, because you've learned to, you know, that you're not an island and that... Jo Fiddy: Hmm. Selina: You sometimes also need to be supported over givers looking particularly at you. ⁓ You know, and it's about feeling rested and it's about some, you know, this week, some mornings I've woken up and been like, ready to go. And one morning I woke up and I was like, said to my husband, was like, you get the kid up. I am having a lie until eight 30. And I took the, I took the start of the day slowly and eased into it. So it's. Jo Fiddy: Ugh. Selina: Yeah, I think it's also just reframing what we even mean by the term feeling energized. you know, it can be, it's, I read somewhere, someone sent me a quote from a book, I wish I could remember the book now, but, ⁓ and it said, the person in the book had written, nature's pace is medium to slow. And most of us are trying to work at a fast pace. And I think one of the many beauties of perimenopause and menopause is it lowers our tolerance to living life at that fast pace. It lowers our tolerance to multitasking and juggling. ain't got the executive function anymore on brain fog days to be able to do any of that. So I'm having to find ways to slow down and also get all the stuff done. So it's like, but, and it's... Jo Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Selina: not always easy and I hate the feeling of dropping balls and forgetting things and including very simple words sometimes and how to say them but it's all of it much like burnout is it's forcing us actually to find a pace of life find a rhythm of life that works so much better for us like burnout is a really scary thing to go through It feels really scary because you feel so far from the person who you want to be yourself to be. But I always say so often people will say it was the worst and best thing that ever happened to me, particularly when they have really bad burnouts. I saw my dad go through massive burnout when I was 12. So surprise, surprise, I ended up writing a book on burnout. Also surprise, surprise, I ended up having my own mini burnouts when I was in my 20s and early 30s. Jo Fiddy: you. Selina: But what I saw of him going through that, which has kind of inspired me ever since then, was it helped him to completely re-evaluate and change his life. And he went from being a workaholic to having this dream of sailing around the world. He'd been a sailor as a kid and had raced other people's big sailing boats, and then he'd had to stop because of work and kids and his heart broke. So he went back to that. He ended up sailing around the world. He sailed to the Antarctic. He is... There's my dad before the burnout and my dad after the burnout. They're like two different people. And he was such an example of, don't have to go to those extremes. He is a man of extremes. He was never gonna do, you know, just be happy potting around in the garden. I'm more happy with that, to be honest. But it just showed me, and this is what I've seen time and time again with people, when they hit burnout, it's, and they're on their knees. Jo Fiddy: you Hahaha. ⁓ Selina: you know, crying, I can't go on like this anymore. It's because their body and brain has wisely said, no, you can't. And something has to change. And I think perimenopause, the menopause journey offers that same opportunity for growth, which at the time we want to scream and shout and say, why can't they, that's me how they were before. But then on reflection, yes, they're the same. That is not how life is gonna be. Jo Fiddy: Say the same. Yeah. No. Selina: And I think, but on reflection, we look back and realize that it pulled the veil off so many things that needed to change that we had somehow with adrenaline and coffee just pushed on through for such a long time. And now we have to go through that, yeah, sometimes painful learning journey of bringing about change, which no human being likes and yet this is what we're here for. you know, we're here to grow. Like that's how feel alive. And at the same time, human beings are hardwired to fear change and to hate. you know, we used to put in maps of the world, the uncharted territories, here there'd be dragons. Just, we don't know what's over there, so it must be awful. Don't go over there. Stay here where everything is familiar. Don't make any changes, nothing new. So we're hardwired for a change. So I think that, yeah, I think it's a roller coaster ride and that's why I do feel excited about ⁓ the perimenopause journey because so much transformation and growth is gonna happen. Jo Fiddy: Yeah. I see it as a gift. You know this. always see I do see perimenopause as a gift because we get to evolve and we get to change and we get to mix it up. And I think it's so, such a big moment in our lives. But if we keep doing what we're doing, if we don't focus on those energy zones, we to do things differently, there is another way of doing things. ⁓ And why it's so important to focus on the energy zones and not keep doing the same thing that we've always done. And I think also as women, ⁓ we taught our beliefs. You can have it all. Selina: Yeah! Yeah! Jo Fiddy: You can have absolutely everything and it's like, well, you know, not absolutely everything, there are limits. You can't burn yourself to the ground. And it's focusing on focusing on yourself. I would love to know if there's one person right now and they're going, ⁓ yes, I'm excited. What can I do? How can I, how can I feel like I want to press play without, without burning myself out? How, what was the one piece of advice that you would suggest right now? Selina: Can it be that they should come and buy time to thrive? Jo Fiddy: Yes, yes, that was the answer I was hoping you were going to say. Selina: That's genuinely, I mean, that's why I created it. Yeah. Come and do Time to Thrive. it's, and it's an audio guide. So this is the workbook. This is the part you fill in so that by the end, you've got your own personal toolkit to thriving, filled with the ingredients that you need to, in order to thrive. But the whole journey is guided by me through an audio guide, because that way you can also listen while you're on the go and listen to a little bit and then, okay. And then, you know, when you get home. Well, later on that day, you sit down and you do write down a couple of little things and then you go and try them out. And actually it's all it's got throughout it. It's all about tiny experiments and playing basically. that's what I would tell you to do. Jo Fiddy: There's one question that I hope with my perimenopausal brain, I always get to ask people and not forget. ⁓ What are you pressing play on right now? Selina: you know what so I had a birth chart reading this is short but it's I had a birth chart reading by the amazing Lou Despert you've got to do it honestly life-changing And one of the things that came out of it, she said, I've got a really creative birth chart. Like this, you your star signs and everything, it's a very creative chart. And so that weekend, when my son was drawing with the pens, I bought him for Christmas. I took a big sheet of, you know, from the Ikea roll of paper that's for him in his room, used some of his pens. and I started drawing, is, mean, I drew and painted my whole childhood, teen years, A levels, art, like went to, foundation, ⁓ course at art school, but haven't really done anything really since then. And I started sketching and I absolutely loved it. It was like I found an old part of me Jo Fiddy: Yeah. Selina: but not just that, was again, it was the energy that I tapped into. I was like, whoa, I don't get this energy, whatever this is, A, it fulfills me on such a deep level and B, I don't get it from anything else. And also, I was quite good. Jo Fiddy: I want to see some pieces please. Selina: Which is, I'm gonna send you, honestly, you're gonna be, you'll be surprised. And so I'm pressing play on that and it's like, yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible, the source, the quality of energy I'm getting from that. And it's also something I can do with my son, he's 10, he loves to draw. ⁓ So now we have sessions where we draw and watch traitors. Weird combo, but it works for us. Yeah. That's what I'm pressing play on. And dancing, getting more dancing in. I've had a good dancing session each month of this year so far. I mean, we're only a few months in, but also wanting to do more of that. Yeah. Yeah. Jo Fiddy: So good, so good, how fun, how. I love it. Good for you. Get under that disco ball. think it's so important. Selina: I Jo Fiddy: this has been an absolute joy. You are my first guest ⁓ on the Pressing Play podcast and it has just been the best. Thank you so, so much. I've learned so much. I feel I've just been sitting here like, ⁓ yes. It's been fantastic. I feel like I've learned so much from you. Selina: Stop! ⁓ Jo Fiddy: over the years and in this session as well in this podcast. And we're to put everything in the show notes. Please do go check everything out from Selena Barker. She really is an icon when it comes to managing your energy. And you don't have to live with burnout. You really do not. There are ways that you can help yourself. Thank you so much, my love. It's been the best. Selina: ⁓ thank you, Joe.