Latest / The Accounting Leads Now Podcast / The Anti-Hourly Firm Model That Clients Actually Prefer - With Dylan Fabbi

Transcript

The Anti-Hourly Firm Model That Clients Actually Prefer - With Dylan Fabbi · The Accounting Leads Now Podcast

• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Dylan, thank you so much for joining us, Dylan.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: So excited for this conversation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me on.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, awesome.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's get right into it, Dylan.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to start with a hot take right out of the gate for all the listeners.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just um let's get into it.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: So is is most bookkeeping just an expensive form of admin work?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because you built something way more operational, strategic, and honestly threatening to the status quo.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to hear your take on this question right out of the gate.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so just to do a little intro on uh myself and the firm, uh so essentially we are a financial partner for small businesses, right?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: We handle everything from the basic books to the taxes, tax strategy.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Once we have you save that money, we help you and then invest it in the wealth management side.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really a full financial picture.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now we started off obviously just doing bookkeeping and then we moved on to doing the taxes and tax planning.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I'll tell you just a little bit about operationally how we help people and to answer your question, how we're I guess disturbing right the status quo of what bookkeeping actually is.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so most people when they start off their business, I would say accounting is probably the last thing on their mind.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're always thinking about uh this grand idea that they have or they're thinking about of how much money they're gonna make.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: But if they would get a hold of their books and actually know the numbers way earlier on in their in their business, I would say most people would have a much easier time scaling up.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Most people have a much easier time actually being more profitable versus being completely in the blind.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when clients are coming or business owners are starting their business, most of them are running completely blind.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: They just run based off what's actually in the bank account, right?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So if they are cash flow positive, they have money in the bank, great, and as soon as it hits that negative and Chase or whatever bank you know notifies you with a negative, they start going crazy.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but if they would have had a financial plan or a little bit more of a um, you know, accounting from the gecko, they would have been able to foresee what's actually gonna happen, and maybe they shouldn't have to hire that extra person, or maybe this one service that they're offering is not profitable, whereas the other one is.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I just I love how much the accounting truly takes the emotion out of running a business.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: You just let the data drive all the not maybe not all decisions, but it certainly helped and it just makes I mean, yeah, when you remove the emotion, things just get a lot easier.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I really love what you guys are doing there and how you bring that clarity to your clients.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you came from big, a big firm, like big firm finance, hedge funds, PE, high net worth clients.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: What made you walk away from all that and want to build your own thing?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my parents actually were their own business owners, and you know, coming home from school every day, you were dropped off at at the at the business, and you would see what they were doing.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um if they would have had an accountant or a team like my own team, uh they probably wouldn't have been a lot more financially secure, they probably would have been a lot more successful, probably a lot less stressed out.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of like the inspiration of me always wanting to do this.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was working at Big Four or underneath the big four and other accounting firms, and you're dealing with clients that are billions and billions of dollars a year, um, I wasn't necessarily getting that you know that drive that I wanted.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be able to help small business owners really and really make a difference in their lives and their families' lives.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I I love that.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Want wanting like being good at at the deliverables is one thing.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Wanting to start a business, that's a that's another piece, and then actually executing on it is I'd say the third piece.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: What has been maybe the biggest surprise for you running your business successfully now?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um like you're obviously really good at what you were doing in the past, working, say, for someone else.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now doing it as a business owner when there's so many more pieces happening.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: What's been one of the biggest surprises for you?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say overall, but when it comes to especially in the accounting industry, this is a service-based business.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's a lot more obviously client relations and making sure that the clientele are happy.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: When you're obviously when you're working in the big four or you're working for someone else, obviously you care about the d about the actual deliverable itself, but you're not necessarily having that same one-on-one relationship with the client versus when now you're a business owner and you have that relationship with the client, it's not all only about the deliverable, because at the end of the day, I would say most accountants could probably produce the exact same thing that we're doing.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: But what's the difference between us and everyone else?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna come down to two things the communication, right, and how proactive you are.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if the communication is on point and you're not just using email and phone calls like traditional old accountants, and you're a little maybe a little bit more um, you know, techy, so you're having a portal, you're having WhatsApp, you're having Slack, whatever you may have, and as well, you're being proactive, you're not just meeting up one time a year, you're meeting maybe three, four, five times a year to help out with their taxes and their books and their reviews and saving money.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's really what separates, I would say, most accounting my accounting firm and I would say step ones from the ones that are not.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that's so true.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: We just wrapped up a conversation.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um I believe it by the time this one comes out, it'll be the previous week with Michael Lee from Reconcile, and a big part of that conversation was how AI is helping a lot of firms and streamlining a lot of things.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, my take again for those listening, um AI is never gonna replace the relationship aspect of running a firm.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the AI will help in a lot of places, but like you just said, AI is not gonna replace how often you physically, you or your team members are meeting with your clients, those touch points that you're sending out that aren't automated, and your clients can actually tell, yeah, this is Dylan and this is his team, and they truly care about what they're sending over.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I I agree.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean I I have my own uh perspective on what I think AI is gonna do to the overall industry.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would say if you're more heavy focused on advisory, then you should be fine.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you're more heavy focused on just volume and easy books, then that's probably gonna disturb your business a lot.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: So okay.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's let's hear, I would love to hear your take.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Let's dive into the that a little bit more.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um if you're not doing as much advisory and you're doing yeah, the bookkeeping, say payroll, um, say tax prep, like what's what's your take on AI and how is it going to impact the industry?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, so already for ourselves, we're testing out AI for basic books.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So clients will come to us and they have maybe 50 to 100 transactions a month.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Very easy.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Copy-paste transactions every single month.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: McDonald's is McDonald's, Starbucks to Starbucks.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your Apple software is Apple software, not really much going on in there.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so those clients, I would say overall from three years ago to now, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: They uh 26, sorry, I was calling me.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I'm I'll I'll I'll repeat the question.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're good, you're just uh yeah.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I I would say from the easier clients that are coming in, it's 100% gonna disrupt it.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so ourselves, we have been developing a product that's gonna help at least on the easier back end side of things.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no reason for why someone should make a mistake on categorizing McDonald's at software when it's always gonna be meals, right?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something which I think is going to 100% help out.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna help out on a lot of like the nitty-gritty, a lot of the data entry work.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: However, when it comes to the the relationships that you have, as you mentioned before, or and the advice that you have, that's where it's not gonna be able to replace.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: QuickBooks itself was trying to do it already where they're spitting out numbers, but most clients don't know how to read numbers and they don't even know what the numbers actually mean to them.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if it says, hey, your uh net profit margin this month are 30% and last month was 25%, they don't even know what to do with that data.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um now, if you're having a financial partner that you could actually rely on, they'll tell you exactly why that happens.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, your profit margins went up by 5% because the cost went down or your sales went up or whatever it may be, and then you can strategize like that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think that AI is gonna come in.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna make accounting, uh, at least for basic books, a lot cheaper.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the advisory side of things is gonna scale up and actually get more expensive because they're gonna say, hey, we're we're getting all this information, but we literally have no idea what to do with it.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it everyone likes that that personal and one-to-one communication, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's why people hire personal trainers.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: All the information's online.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: You no one would have any problem finding a workout plan or finding an app or finding an influencer trainer online to jump and watch their YouTube classes, but they want the accountability and they want to they want to be with someone one-to-one.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in a world where everything is so automated and everything's so AI now, people it it's we're going to loop back where everyone wants to, like the more old fashioned.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they want they'll want the tailored, they'll want the tailored uh solution.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that and that comes at a premium price, right?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: When you're getting someone, you know, you're getting their time one-on-one.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I think it's great.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's great within the direction the the industry's heading in.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: So with all of that being said, I'm really curious, what's one marketing play that flopped early on for you?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: And what did it teach you either about marketing or just running your business in general from that from that side of the business?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so going on to marketing, um, so when I started off the company, it's actually still the base upper referrals.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and in the beginning, I had a very, very good network.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, as you grow and grow, grow, you kind of expand that network a little bit.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but obviously, your internal your initial network is the people that are gonna be relying on you and or giving you referrals.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, once you reach a certain point, you have to start now obviously marketing.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only way you're gonna grow.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing or purchasing other firms.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the two other ways to do it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Each one has their benefits in terms of the marketing.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, everyone said Facebook was amazing.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: We did Facebook and it was terrible.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was terrible.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you would get on, the people would come on, they wouldn't necessarily be uh exactly tailored to you.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some people were looking for like a$200 accountant, and we're like, hey, you know, we're we're actually providing advice throughout the year.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't think you're gonna fit our bill.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: So there's obviously that side of things, lots of time wasted, lots of money spent.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then we shifted into um an accounting firm only marketing that also didn't work.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and now obviously we're with you guys.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So now we're trying out the Google local service ads.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I happen to probably think this might work more than the other ones.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that being said, because with Facebook, right, they could have searched up looking for an accountant and it just keeps on going, on going.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Versus this, they're actually looking currently right now, looking for an accountant.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then specifically with the way that you're designing it, which is that they call and then if it's qualified, it comes to us, versus the other way around, which is you don't even know if it's qualified, and uh you're getting on the call anyways.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, that's that's interesting.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, we we we do know Facebook works.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's just a lot more variables that go into it.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So anyone out there who is either running their own Facebook ads, they're working with an agency doing it, there's just a lot that goes into it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: It comes down to the your headline, the copy, the first couple lines of the copy, what the image looks like.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: How how can how often is someone seeing that same ad?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: What does your um opt-in form look like?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's just a lot of variables to hopefully get in front of the right person who has a need.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Where, yeah, like what we're gonna be running with you, Done, that we're super excited about is someone just jumps on Google Nick specifically to search for what it is you offer and you show up instead of a competitor, and that phone call comes in.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we're we're loving what we're doing with local service ads, and I I can't wait for the campaign to get off the ground for you because um I'm excited for you to see what what's to come there.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Facebook, Facebook didn't work as well for you in the past.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um what has worked for you?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you you've built a very successful firm.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned you have a strong network.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything outside of referrals and word of mouth that has worked really well for you?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or I'd be curious to hear like what has been the success of Fabi so far.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, so I would say it's it's really just come down to the word of mouth and like my strong relationships with uh let's say other accountants or other CFOs, or um, I actually when I was working in the Big Four, I got very close to a few of the partners there.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And any client that comes their way that might that's too small for the Big Four, they send they send my way.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, you know, that was very helpful.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um but in terms of the marketing itself, I mean, as I mentioned, we did Facebook, we did TikTok, we maybe got 10, 15 clients out of that.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would say the bulk of the remaining, you know, close to 500 clients is uh word of mouth networking and just making sure that you stand out a little bit from everyone else.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I I want to unpack that a little bit more because you don't strike me as someone who is like, yeah, word of mouth, and then you're not intentional about it at all.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me a little bit of uh about your the word of mouth, the referral strategy, because I I get the feeling that you're super intentional about it and you are um like crafting those relationships.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, even your your past employer like jumping in and being intentional to ask them, like, hey, if no one fits the bill, keep us top of mind.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't know, I just there's a lot of firms out there, the first thing they say is, oh yeah, we do word of mouth.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, are you are you actually doing anything or you just hope other people are speaking about you?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't get the feeling you just sit back and hope other people are speaking about you guys.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, if you're sitting back and by crossing your fingers that uh clients are gonna come, it's not it's not gonna work.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in the beginning, it obviously was a lot of work.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I thought about every single accountant that I knew, and I said, this is exactly what I'm building.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna be a competitor, I'm gonna be helping you out.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I said if you're interested, or if you have clients, then send them my way.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't even they didn't even care about a referral commission, they didn't even care about that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: They said, listen, you're gonna be saving me so much time and you're gonna be helping out my clients.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate what you're what you're trying to do.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's worth it to send it to you because I know I can rely on you.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um now, obviously, when you're trying to get into new people, into new firms, it's a lot, it's a lot more difficult.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you really have to prove your worth.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because why would they work with you over anyone else?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more about your track record, it's more about what the type of clients you have, more about the examples that you could show them.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's say you brought a client from zero dollars in sales to 10 million in sales in the first three years of their business, whatever it may be, showing how clean the financials look, and then depending on what you're doing, it's what they're doing.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: If they're just doing the tax, you're doing the books, or vice versa, you're trying to always help each other out.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, you just need to be intentional.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, it's your business.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Go out and go out and make some noise and and drive stuff in.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: I it's one of, I don't know, I just I laugh when I speak with a lot of people and they're like, yeah, we we do word of mouth.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, but you don't have any clients and no one knows you exist.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: So like talking about your business.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um for most accountants, I would say like, you know, obviously there's a lot of these accounting networking events.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I would say stay far away from those because you're not really gonna get much benefit out of that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of the clients or a lot of the relationships that I have are actually like course creators.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so let's say one of the like the first few clients I picked up, they end up making courses, and you kind of become like their you know number one CPA or their number one bookkeeper or their number one financial advisor, whatever it may be, and then all their clients come to you.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's like a very good, that's a very good way to do things.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then number two, I felt was you know, make sure you have like a very good lawyer, a very good insurance guy, a very good financial advisor, and then uh you send to them, they send to you, and then that way everyone's happy.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the the going lateral in your industry, and and like you said, finding, say, the one ideal client and then all of their clients' clients.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like you you're the go-to person.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's an amazing strategy.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to hear from you what's the biggest lie accounting firm owners still believe about scaling?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tough question.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think now the what it's coming down to is volume.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Volume over clientele, quality of client.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in the past it's always been oh once I reach a thousand clients, fifteen hundred clients, two thousand clients, then I'll be successful.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Nowadays it's not like that because we're not most account as mentioned, the accounting industry is changing, it's becoming a lot more proactive versus reactive.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think as long as you're delivering a good product and you can now upsell on the advice side of things.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And now instead of your clients only paying let's say two, three, four thousand a year, you're selling it for twelve, you don't need to have a thousand clients anymore.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: All you have to have is five hundred very good clients.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or if your ticket is a little bit higher than that, then if you're having five hundred clients, all you have to have is a hundred clients.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's uh another thing uh about scaling.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um most people think it's about the volume, um, but it's definitely now coming to a time when it's not necessarily about the volume anymore, it's gonna be about expanding um in terms of the services that you're offering and then upselling them on that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's something you do on purpose that most firms avoid, but your clients love that you provide to them?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um WhatsApp group chats.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's that's the number one amazing thing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's on their phone, what's up's great.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Slack I find too confusing.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um it is a lot of work from our end because we have to get specific numbers and then connect it and then get everyone on the group chat.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say that's for sure the number one game changer.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh clients quick question, they they send us a text, and within you know, five or ten minutes, someone's responding to them, versus the traditional email or these cool new portals that people have or Slack where everything gets lost.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think WhatsApp is very direct.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's for sure number one.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: C CFO in a pocket.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's number one.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then number two is as mentioned, we're not just doing basic books and taxes, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: We are the number one financial partner for them.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: We actually really believe in our clients.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so when clients come to us, it's not just, oh, let me just take your money and do your accounting.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're like we actually believe in what they're trying to accomplish and we help them get to their get to the next level.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's we're helping them with the books and advisory, the taxes, saving taxes, um, and then we start offering different services, as I mentioned, financial advisory, so now have helping them invest their money uh into mutual funds, retirement plans, uh pension plans, whatever it may be.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And specifically for our real estate clients, uh Um, we started doing cost aggregation studies.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we're essentially doing all these different services in for these clients that they don't have to go look other places.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So for them to know, hey, let me just call Dylan and team to go ahead and do X, Y, and Z for me, it's much easier than hey, let me call Dylan for X, that guy for Y, and the other guy for Z.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot more complicated and they would rather we just have everything in one place.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now when it comes to the WhatsApp group, where where do I'm sure there's listeners thinking, like, where do you put boundaries on that?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: How do you scale that?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you feel I I know for me, if I was to do that, I would I'd almost feel obligated, like every the second something comes in, I gotta respond right away.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then is that what clients get used to?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's just the expectation, like, oh, it's been three hours and they haven't responded.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: When in reality, if it was an email, you almost expect to not hear back for like a day or two.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: But now, because you guys have been so quick on WhatsApp, like has that ever come back to bite you?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, good question.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So in the beginning, when we sign up a client, we tell them the time expectations for us to respond.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we tell when it's busy season, typically between three and six hours, and then if it's the regular flow season, anywhere between one to three hours.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's gonna be sooner, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: But just in case everyone's busy or there's meetings or whatever it may be, we want to just have that expectation there.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there are times where we go ahead and we're responding back when it's five, ten minutes, and then let's say a month later, we'll respond back to three hours later and we'll get a question mark.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: So 100% that is there, right?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's an expectation of oh, they're fast, they're good.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Responding back to me, it's like, as you mentioned, financial advisor in my pocket.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh with that being said, right, we also have to focus on what we're trying to accomplish and making sure that we're getting reaching our deadlines.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So specifically around deadline season as well, it's gonna be a little bit slower, but that's not but I still think that's more pre preferable than responding back to an email two days later.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm guessing not every single client.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: You guys have a ton of clients.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing not everyone's on that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like that that must be like higher ticket, more like tax prep.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah, yeah.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So basic tax prep is not on there.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be typically whoever's our higher ticket, you know, books, TFO, and taxes.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's all gonna be on there.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean so roughly right now, it's roughly around uh 200 clients on that, and then the remaining 300 are our portal where they get back, they get a response back in a day.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: You guys are on top of the ball with with communication then.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: That I mean, even 200 like 200 group chats of different clients.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's definitely a lot, but it's it's very easily designed.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have I I'm on personally on each and every single one of them, and then the tax director and then the financial director on each of them as well.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then depending on who the staff and the seniors are, that's how we allocate it.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we everyone knows their role, everyone knows what they're supposed to do, everyone knows who's supposed to respond, and then internally we have our own tracking system as well.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean that's that's cute, that's why glove service as far as communication goes, where you hear of so many other firms, they're like the biggest the biggest bottleneck or pain I hear from so many other, I guess, end-to-end business owners is they never hear from their their financial team, they never hear from their bookkeeper, they never hear from their accountant.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: You you guys that's cool, just text us.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: We don't care.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll get back to you within like a couple hours.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Where I mean, I've even been victim in the past where I mean, not victim, I hate that term, but send a message over and like you just know you're getting billed for like that, even those text messages coming back and forth through the time, and it's like, okay, I we're anyways.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do that.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we're we're we're very anti uh hourly billing.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, we are we're 100% um you know subscription based.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like that.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what's one system inside Fabby that saves your team the most time or drives the most profit?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I like that question.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a uh I mean how to I don't even know how I figured it out, but I coded actually this whole thing.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: That it basically tracks the efficiency levels of all of the staff and all the managers, and as well as the deliverables of other product.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's basically like at the three times, four times a day, it sends out email and um team reminders to everyone.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say a client uh staff's supposed to be working on 20 clients every day.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: At 12 o'clock, I'll say, Hey, you worked on five clients, good job.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're on target.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like the positive reinforcement of saying, Hey, good job, guys, you're doing a good job, you're almost at your target, and kind of reminding him throughout the day gets them to feeling one appreciated, and two, it gets them to the point of like, okay, I know I have to reach my deadline.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Versus if it was, you know, you just expect them to do 20 clients a day, and then at the end of the day, you're like, hey, well, how come you only did five clients?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have to start looking in and figuring it out.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of this like thing I developed, it's one, as mentioned, for the positive reinforcement side of things, it's making them feel appreciated, and then number three, it's making sure that we're getting to the deadlines and obviously increasing efficiency.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever thought about selling this as a software?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of people listening here like, I would love to have that.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd love that.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe I'll uh change uh maybe I'll become my own client for my accounting room, you know.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: All right, well, everyone stay tuned.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: There may be new software for the accounting space coming on the market.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you you talk about saving clients, you know, roughly 12 and a half hours a month, sometimes 25 plus K in taxes.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: What's a case study that you love to share that proves your model works?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we have a lot of clients that come in that are either high W 2s, uh let's say they're working in the city, New York City, we're based in the triset area, let's say uh successful lawyers, surgeons making two, three, four million dollars a year in W-2, and they're paying roughly 50% based in the city in taxes.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a hard hit.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you're making four million dollars and all of a sudden you have buck in your pocket's two million, and now with Mandani, who just won, it's probably gonna be a little bit higher.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's that that's a hard hit.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially what we do is we have a few different strategies that we'd like to implement.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of them are very are very common.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh obviously we can get a little bit more detailed for ones that need it, but let's say the short-term rental loophole strategy, I'm not sure if people know about it, but most of the time when clients are in real estate or they invest in real estate, they're not able to take really a lot of those losses at all, actually.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um can't wipe off active income with passive income.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you do short-term rental loophole, the IRS actually views that as an active strategy, and therefore you're actually able to go ahead and wipe out your actual active income.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we do this strategy uh obviously if they reinvest, but the way I look at it is I'd rather invest in owning a property than giving away the IRS my money.
• 28:43
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not for free, but instead of me giving two million dollars away to the IRS, I'm gonna own two million dollars worth of assets.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, interesting.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you basically wipe yeah, so in that scenario, you're actually wiping out roughly if you do that that exact strategy, you'd be wiping out roughly two million dollars in fact for that one client.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um on average, I would say most people don't have two million dollars to uh invest.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So the other strategies we're that we're able to implement for them is roughly gonna save them, you know, 25 to you know 50k.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: But that's after smaller ticket, you know, clients, you know, they're making 100, 200, 300,000 a year, that's where you're gonna be saving that money.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the larger the client is, the more money you can save them.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and it's all relative as well, right?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you're making 300k a year, still saving 25k or or more or less, you're giving your client 25k because it's going elsewhere.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all relative, and I I that's cool.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it and again, it just comes down to the way that's also because a lot of people they're always asking us like, how do you how do you sell a tax plan?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you sell accounting?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's just how you frame it.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And rather than hey, you're not like we're gonna save you 25k in taxes, they feel like it's already lost, but no, we're gonna we're gonna give you back money that otherwise the IRS.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I think that's really cool.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: What what's one of the things, Dylan, running a firm that that keeps you up at night?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously, as mentioned, this is a service-based business.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I personally have a very hard time with this when clients um complaints.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, it it it happens.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it happens.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say we'll we'll do a tax projection for a client.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: We'll say, hey, we're you're you're gonna uh you're gonna we're gonna save you, let's say 50k, and end up being that we still only say in the 45, whatever it may be, because the final number is changed.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that that does happen.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it definitely keeps you up at night.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I like to make sure that the clients are being serviced 100% and uh everyone's always happy.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to learn that this is business and things happen where you're not always gonna be 100% able to deliver on exactly what you meant what you wanted.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it might be you deliver a little bit less, but they're still getting a very good product.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, interesting.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: What uh what's your day-to-day look like now um compared to a year ago?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so as you scale, obviously, you have to hire more people, and then the goal of every owner should be to take a step back and deal with uh I would say essentially operations, business development, scaling the business, and then potentially other things that they're interested in doing.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's so a year ago I was heavily involved.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Every single day I was going through like a list of all the clients.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was in you know, dealing with my team, I was speaking to clients, I was uh doing all these things, and it was a very, very busy day, it was like 12 hour days.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, since then I have I hired a few directors, so they're essentially once attacked, once financial.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: We now have all the managers, all the seniors, all the staff.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: So now everything is kind of where it needs to be.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I essentially deal every day with ops and business development.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, business development, as I mentioned, could be either through the marketing strategies, it could be through getting more clients, it could be through potential uh purchases of new firms.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's essentially that's my day-to-day every day.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I have to make sure everyone's happy, and then the bigger ticket clients, um, you know, speak to them, make sure everyone everything's good, give them some projections.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: I still, you know, hold their hands because I feel a little bit uh you know allegiance to them.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: So they're let's say some of my some of them are my first clients, so I still want to go ahead and speak to them and make sure everything is all good and take them out.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um overall day to day, it's still very busy.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still working, you know, a lot of hours, but not uh 12 hours a day.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, awesome.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: It it's very, it's very impressive.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's really cool to hear.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Getting to a couple of the final questions here for you, Dylan.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: What's the next big evolution for Fabby?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: More services, deeper advisory, hiring differently, tech stacks, upgrades, what's what's on the horizon?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So as mentioned, we have a lot of clients, and the number one thing I would say for small business owners is they really heavily rely on their accountant.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes for investments, uh, not just regular investments, as mentioned, the mutual funds or retirement, whatever it may be, but actual investments.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we have lots of clients that are now actively asking us, hey, would you invest in this?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or is this a good deal?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the next thing which I would like to do is have like another company called like Fobby Capital Advisors, something along those lines, where we essentially create the deals for the clients and we raise the capital for the for that deal.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's gonna be the uh yeah, so it's gonna be uh either in real estate or venture capital or let's say this software idea that I have, you know, I could get a few I could get let's say 10-20 clients, each give a f each give uh some capital towards that, and now they're a small equity partner in a uh a new venture.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something that's just gonna come along the line.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: So la last question for you then, Dylan.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this I have to think about.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I don't know, I don't know if it's advice, but it's maybe just simply from my wife just telling me like, you know, you're human.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're uh, you know, people make mistakes and you can't be in a million places at once.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I would I would say from a business perspective that's one hundred percent true as well.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can't be focusing on a million things, it'd be focusing on one or two things that you really want to be working on currently, making sure that that's the best deliverable product and you could possibly make it, and then from there scale up to creating more or newer things.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, 'cause obviously in the beginning everything's very exciting.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I have clients with this all the time and actually end up not being my platform because I go bankrupt.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: But they focus on one thing and then they focus on another thing, and until they develop a good product on company A, they're already focusing on B, C and D and E.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's not it's not going to work.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's not efficient and you have to first build out a very good product for product A, make sure that if you're hiring someone, someone's actually running the show well over there, and then move on to B, C, D and E accordingly.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's why I would say, you know, don't try to jump before you actually have a very good product, number one, and number two is it's okay, you're human, like people do make mistakes, and I think you do learn from the mistakes to eventually make uh a good product for your business or yourself or working on yourself or just being a better person.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that's awesome.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Your wife sounds like a very wise woman.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very wise.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: But but also just like just give yourself some grace, right?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what I'm hearing from that.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you're human, you're gonna make mistakes, but there's there's only so much you can do.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I think sometimes people are just very hard on themselves, myself included.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I I really I like that uh that message that you just shared.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for coming on, sharing so much valuable insight.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: You're absolutely crushing it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's so cool to see how you're how you're building your firm.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited for what's to come working with you over the next handful of months and beyond.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um it just it's really cool to see, and it's very inspiring, especially being um around similar ages.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's cool to see what you're building on your side, and um I'm I'm rooting from you.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm rooting for you from over here.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're not too far away.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: We could definitely go out.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: We can root together, you know.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for coming on, appreciate it.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: All right, James, have uh happy holidays, and thanks so much for having me on.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of CFO Chronicles, the secrets behind success.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you found value in today's conversation.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: First, make sure to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: If you enjoyed today's discussion, please rate and review the show.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: It helps others discover the insights we share here.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Second, if you're ready to take your business to the next level and attract the high-end clients you deserve, head over to accountingleadsnow.com or click the link in the show notes to book your strategy call.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to position yourself as the advisor your clients need.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: And don't forget, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to stay up to date on what's happening in the world of accounting and financial growth.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: We've got exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned for the next episode of TFO Chronicles.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Until then, keep pushing forward.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Your growth is just one strategic move away.