Latest / Content, Briefly / Klaviyo: Tracey Wallace on pre- vs. post-IPO content

Transcript

Klaviyo: Tracey Wallace on pre- vs. post-IPO content · Content, Briefly

• 0:00
  Hey folks, before we dive into today's podcast, I just wanted to let you know that the new and improved Superpath Pro is up and running, and it's awesome. So I'll just give you a quickie overview of what you get.
• 0:09
  Superpath Pro members get access to a library of courses and content. They get monthly one-on-one calls where we pair you up with a peer and give you a simple agenda.
• 0:19
  It's an opportunity to meet people and kind of brainstorm and talk through content challenges. We're also doing monthly, what we're calling Superpath Socials. So these are group calls. We just did our first one.
• 0:28
  We had forty-five people. There is a sort of large group component, and then there's breakout sessions where you're put into smaller groups for sort of specific discussion on a content trend or problem.
• 0:37
  And then we're also doing private AMAs in the Slack group. So each month we bring in somebody for an AMA, and we run that in the Slack group. So all of that is five hundred bucks a year.
• 0:44
  Our goal is to make it the absolute best deal in content marketing. If you wanna learn more about it, it's all on the homepage, superpath.co. And if you have any questions, feel free to hit us up. Thanks so much.
• 0:54
  At least for me right now, something that, like, makes me feel grounded and maybe even, like, a little safe is the basics are working really, really well.
• 1:03
  Webinars are working really well, um, calendars, templates, tools, anything that really seems to offer, like, practical help. Benchmarks, benchmarks are doing really well.
• 1:13
  Anything that offers that, like, practical advice, practical help to an audience, um, seems to be converting as well as it ever has, if not better.
• 1:22
  [upbeat music] Hey, and thanks for tuning in to another episode of Content Briefly. Today we've got Tracey Wallace from Klaviyo on. Now, Tracey was on way back when, February 2023.
• 1:35
  That was more than a year and a half ago. We've done eighty-plus episodes in the meantime. The world has changed significantly since then. We obviously talk about that. Tracey is still at Klaviyo.
• 1:45
  She's still running all their content. Her job has evolved pretty significantly, though. In the meantime, Klaviyo has IPO'd. There's been some reorganization.
• 1:52
  She has more resources, which is certainly an upside of that, but her job is pretty different.
• 1:57
  One really interesting takeaway from this is that her content team serves the other orgs rather than just being a growth component of the marketing team. Now, that happens a lot by accident.
• 2:07
  It doesn't usually happen on purpose, and so Tracey kind of walks us through the decision-making there, what that means her day-to-day work looks like, what her team structure is, and a few other things.
• 2:17
  Tracey's wonderful. She's so smart. Highly recommend signing up for her weekly newsletter, which is called Contentment. There will be a link in the show notes to that.
• 2:25
  It's the most consistent thing in an uncertain world is Tracey's newsletter.
• 2:29
  I really look forward to it every week, and pretty much every week it gets shared in the Slack group too, because she's always got something really smart and insightful to say.
• 2:36
  So as always, I really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope you do too. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Shuffle, the all-in-one video editing and production tool.
• 2:46
  Instead of bouncing between multiple tools to draft ideas, record, edit, and add post-production elements, Shuffle brings everything into one platform.
• 2:53
  From ideation to final production, you simply log in with your company email, and Shuffle pulls in your branding, logo, colors, and more directly from your website so you're up and running quickly.
• 3:02
  Here's how Shuffle works. Just type in a prompt like, "A marketing video on why community is the new way to do sales in twenty twenty-four," and then Shuffle generates everything for you.
• 3:11
  A shot list, a sensible script, branded motion art, and even provides an online recording studio with a teleprompter. No need to shuffle between apps. Everything stays on one platform.
• 3:21
  With Shuffle, you not only save time in production, but also in ideation. The platform tailors the shot list based on the concept you input, giving you endless video possibilities.
• 3:29
  It's the perfect way to consistently create thought leadership videos without the hassle. Check the link in the show notes to start your free trial. Content Briefly is produced by our friends at Minutia.
• 3:40
  To learn more about their podcast production service, as well as their other adaptive content marketing services, check out minutia.com in the show notes. Hey everybody, Jimmy from Superpath.
• 3:50
  Very excited to have Tracey Wallace from Klaviyo back on the podcast. Tracey, you were on maybe episode two or episode three. I mean, this is like a thousand years ago at this point. Feels like it anyways.
• 4:00
  We've done eighty-something episodes since then. Anyways- Easy... we've been inviting some past guests back. It's just great to check in, see what's going on, see how you are, what's changed.
• 4:08
  I know a lot has changed, but maybe before we dive into all that, will you just do a quick intro of yourself and what you've been up to over the past couple years work-wise, just to give folks all the context.
• 4:18
  Yeah, for sure. So I am very happy to be back. I am Tracey Wallace. I am the Director of Content Strategy over at Klaviyo, where I've been for almost three years now.
• 4:28
  Started working there about a year and a half before their IPO, um, and so saw them through that and then have been, you know, working there in the aftermath.
• 4:36
  And as Jimmy knows, because we were talking about this a bit before the show, that's really where so much of my work, like professional life is focused, is really trying to
• 4:45
  figure out how to work and, like, build content strategies at this scale at a public company, which is just not something that I had done before.
• 4:53
  I came from a journalism background, working over, you know, at Mashable prior to getting into the tech world, and then over at BigCommerce, also leading up to their IPO, but I wasn't there for the IPO.
• 5:05
  I left about a year before that and then worked at some early-stage startups as the head of marketing, so running like full-scale programs.
• 5:13
  And so it has been a lesson in humility on running content strategy at a public, large, fast-growing company, and I'm really trying to embrace that and also, like, find comfort in being uncomfortable, which truly has been, I think, what's been going on really for the last year, and of course, it's what I see really for at least the next year of my role here as that org changes and shifts and directions shift.
• 5:41
  It's a lot of fun. It's a very different way of thinking.
• 5:45
  I feel like I'm learning from a lot of folks who have come in from other places, you know, like from like Salesforce in, in particular, and like actually looking for the first time in my career at places like HubSpot, NailChant, these organizations that have built these like really powerful media companies to a large extent and trying to figure out maybe not how we replicate that, but like-How do we take pieces of that and apply it to our program, again, in this scaled way?
• 6:16
  It is. It's a very, very different way of thinking than I've done in my career historically, where I have been maybe a content team of one to, like, three, I will say. Our content team's still very small.
• 6:26
  So it's not like we're a much bigger content team, but we do have more budget for additional help, which is nice. So that's where I'm focused,
• 6:34
  learning to be uncomfortable, learning to relearn all the things, and then of course, as everyone knows, content marketing and SEO in particular has really changed over the last year and a half and will be- Yes...
• 6:43
  doing so for the future. So there's a lot of relearning there too. Nice. Very cool. In the meantime, also, you've been sending the Contentment newsletter every week- Yes...
• 6:53
  for two-plus years, I think, at this point, right? Yes, I have not missed a week- Whoa... since it launched, like June 2021, I believe.
• 7:04
  So yeah, so I write a weekly content marketing newsletter where I am typically writing it, um, the night before it goes out with a glass of wine, trying to think through, okay, what is it that I want to share with folks?
• 7:18
  And sometimes it is some of the things I'm relearning, some new templates and things that I'm really into, and then other times when I'm, like, really in the trenches and can't figure anything else out, I'm usually looking at, okay, who are the folks that I'm following, the content that I'm digesting to help me kind of rightsize myself in this new environment, and trying to share that out with folks because I know, at least for me personally, the amount of noise on LinkedIn and just on the internet in general, it's really hard to parse through, like, what's good advice versus what isn't.
• 7:49
  So, so I share a lot from other folks in that too, and then of course I'm trying to shorten it because I've gotten a ton of feedback that it was too long, so I'm really trying to condense as much as possible. Nice.
• 8:01
  You know, there's like almost nothing certain anymore in content SEO except for- No... your weekly newsletter.
• 8:07
  It's like the one thing that we could all rely on, and I, I'm gonna make sure, we'll put a link in the show notes, so it's hard to imagine anyone not already being subscribed, but the link will be there so that everyone- Amazing...
• 8:17
  can make sure that they're on it. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
• 8:18
  And really, I hope to provide templates, advice, guidance, but a lot of the times just, like, I don't know, comfort for anybody out there that we're not in this alone, that a lot of people can't figure this out, that we're not meant to figure it out, I don't know, within 24 hours, within a month, within a quarter.
• 8:34
  So that's a big piece of it too. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, I feel like every conversation I have with anyone in content these days is like, "What are you seeing out there? What do you think is gonna happen?
• 8:42
  What's next year gonna be like?" And it's like, I have, I have no idea. [laughs] I really don't.
• 8:46
  It's crazy, though I will say, at least for me right now, something that, like, makes me feel grounded and maybe even, like, a little safe is the basics are working really, really well.
• 8:57
  Webinars are working really well, calendars, templates, tools, anything that really seems to offer, like, practical help. Benchmarks, benchmarks are doing really well.
• 9:06
  Anything that offers that, like, practical advice, practical help to an audience seems to be converting as well as it ever has, if not better, and it even has me leaning...
• 9:17
  I was having this conversation with someone internally the other day where I was just like, you know, all, like, really cool content, like really cool content plays, I don't know if I can find anybody else on the internet talking about, like, really cool research or really cool predictions or r- like, whatever it is, other than content marketers.
• 9:38
  But content marketers aren't my audience, and I have a lot of questions- Yeah... on like how well does some of that really cool, like, forward-facing UX, like how well does some of that really convert?
• 9:53
  And I just, I don't know because the data that I have right now on the basics is that the basics is converting really, really, really well.
• 10:02
  So it's having us lean in a lot more there than exploring maybe some of these more experiential types of environments, which I'm sure work really well for others too.
• 10:11
  But that's just not where we're putting a lot of our eggs at this time. I'm so glad you said that. That's actually kind of emerging as a theme on our last couple episodes.
• 10:21
  So last week we had, um, Matt Hodges from Equals, who had a very similar sentiment. Like, Equals' content strategy is, uh, essay-style content on Substack. It's like the leanest, simplest thing you could possibly do.
• 10:35
  And, uh, I guess all my questions for him were like, "What am I missing?" And he was like, "Nothing. It's just-" Nothing. "... that simple."
• 10:41
  What's genius about Substack is that, like, there is an pre-built audience there primed and ready- Sure... for long form reading. And like, it's... I love that they're doing that.
• 10:53
  A lot of companies can't do that, of course. But, like, blogs aren't it right now.
• 10:58
  Like, when I started content marketing, that was, like, back in the day w- where you would like, I don't know, go to like a blog homepage to, like, see what was up, see what, like, this new org was talking about or this new influencer was talking about.
• 11:11
  And, like, that's not the way people digest information anymore. Yeah. You have to get your stuff out to them.
• 11:18
  And so publishing weekly on Substack where it-- Substack is full of people who have raised their hand and said, "I like to read newsletters, essays."
• 11:27
  And so they're producing essays on the platform where people have raised their hand and said, "That's what I want." Like, it's simple, as genius.
• 11:35
  Not a lot of folks can do it for a variety of reasons, but, like, if you can, it's a wonderful strategy. Yeah, I love it. And o- you know, I went down the rabbit hole and read their stuff. It's great. It's really great.
• 11:46
  And we also had, we had Lane Scott Jones from Zapier on the week before that, and we were talking about Zapier's 2025 content plans and, you know, there's a bunch of content stuff, and then she said, "And we're gonna host pickleball meetups."
• 11:58
  Hell yeah. I was like- I love that. [laughs] "No way. Zapier's gonna host pickleball meetups? Really?" That is so interesting. And they did a test in 2024, and it was, like, this huge hit. People loved it. Yeah.
• 12:08
  And so, like, these in-person events...
• 12:11
  I mean, like, I, I mentioned to you before this call that we did a survey of Superpath members-Of a summer to see like what folks want out of it, and everybody said, "We just want opportunities to connect with other people.
• 12:21
  Like, don't give us content. Give us connection. That's what we really want." Anyway, it's just, it's kind of a, there's like maybe a silver lining to all the chaos going on right now. There is, yeah.
• 12:28
  Something great can emerge from all of this. All the chaos. But yeah, the, the in-person stuff, I mean, Klaviyo's doubling down there too, launching a lot of events, field stuff.
• 12:37
  I mean, it's really cool to see folks just, yeah, coming together over shared problems, shared tools, and folks really just wanting to learn. Like, it's confusing out there. None of us know what to do.
• 12:50
  That's not just in content marketing. Like, all of these changes are affecting people in marketing across the board, people in engineering, people developing. I mean, truly, it's happening everywhere.
• 13:01
  And yeah, I think we're humans. We all seek each other when we have no idea what's happening. Yeah, yeah. That's nice, actually.
• 13:07
  [chuckles] I would love to pick your brain a little bit about what's happening at Klaviyo these days. So the company IPO'd. I would be super cur- like, was content...
• 13:15
  You know, like, I assume the whole company is scrutinized as it preps for that. Like, you know, what did content have to, to do to contribute, to analyze, et cetera, to prepare for that?
• 13:25
  And then, okay, then the company IPOs. Now what? You know, like, do things change instantly? Yeah. Well, so I was out on mat leave for the lead up to IPO. My team really didn't have too terribly much to do by any means.
• 13:39
  I think we updated taglines and things prior to it, so, and, you know, just making sure everything was, like, as buttoned up as possible.
• 13:47
  Klaviyo, though, also hired a new CMO right before IPO, and she has been really, really remarkable and, you know, really came in and has shifted org structure a bit.
• 13:59
  She has experience at large public organizations and really scaling integrated marketing and go-to-market programs.
• 14:05
  So it's been really fascinating to watch her come in, to learn from her, to see the whole org really kind of raise its standards of excellence to meet, you know, this new final approver on everything.
• 14:16
  But yeah, our whole org structure changed after IPO, and this year was really our first time that everyone was working within that new org structure. Got it. And of course, like, that's confusing. Things are new.
• 14:29
  People are trying to figure it out. You also typically see a lot of, like, the churn, like employee churn with IPO, with a new CMO, and also a lot of new people in. So that's been happening over at Klaviyo too.
• 14:42
  But I mean, overall, I think it's been really good. The team, at least from my perspective, is working far better together than we have and seeing a lot of great results as well.
• 14:51
  So it has been truly a learning experience. Again, especially being someone who has worked for startups primarily before this.
• 15:01
  I guess I, like, interned at Hearst a long time ago, so maybe that was my, my only real insight into some of it before. But yeah, it's fascinating how this stuff works. Yeah, yeah. And so what happens?
• 15:13
  You come back from mat leave, and then- Yes. What's different? Like, you know what I mean? How are the day-to-day, the day-to-day goings on of the content team different than they were before IPO? Sure.
• 15:22
  Well, so I wouldn't even say it's like IPO or not. I think it's really org structure based for us.
• 15:27
  So we, in twenty twenty-two and twenty twenty-three, were a content marketing organization, and we were responsible for producing content and bringing content to market.
• 15:38
  And so we were building out distribution plans, working with a lot of partners on that, of course. But then we shifted to a content strategy organization where go-to-market is no longer my team's responsibility.
• 15:51
  Now, we still work with people. We can make recommendations for sure, but our marketing team is organized into squads. So like a small business squad, a brand squad, uh- Got it. Okay. Interesting. Right.
• 16:03
  And so we serve those squads.
• 16:06
  They come to us with goals, with timing needs, and we are working on building out content strategies for them to hit those goals, to hit those timing needs, or I guess to, to get that content out in that timeline.
• 16:18
  And then those squads bring things to market, right? So we fill out, you know, bill of materials or strategy docs with the content strategy.
• 16:27
  We have a lifecycle team coming in behind us being like, "Okay, well, if you're doing that, then we're gonna do this."
• 16:32
  We have international teams hopping in, and they're like, "Okay, if they're doing that in the US, like, here's the variance that we're gonna do for each individual region."
• 16:39
  You're figuring out, you know, who are your final approvers. Like, okay, here's this content strategy and this, like, general theme and topic we wanna go after. We've got PMN sign-off on it.
• 16:49
  Now let's take it to a squad lead. Do we have squad lead sign-off? Do we make sure we have the budget for it? Like, that's really more where my team's focus is, like, what is the strategy?
• 17:01
  And then distribution is another team's problem, um, or opportunity, we'll say, is another team's opportunity- Yeah.
• 17:09
  [chuckles] At the, at this point in time, which honestly has, has been better because my team used to spend at least sixty percent of our time, if not more, focused on the go-to-market of the content and the distribution strategy of the content.
• 17:21
  Now we're able to focus a lot more on the strategy, and then of course, production is still ours as well. So we manage content agencies. I have an in-house editor who edit everything. Nice.
• 17:32
  So that's all the stuff that we serve, everything international, to make sure that, you know, we're aligned a-across the board.
• 17:39
  And then we do have one in-house writer, which helps us with quite a few things, but of course often gets the stuff that needs to happen, like, really, really quick because we can't get it out and over to an agency.
• 17:49
  And then a, an additional content strategist on the team as well who's helping to build out briefs.
• 17:56
  So I'll typically build out, like, content strategy briefs, and then they'll take that strategy brief once it's approved and build out, like, a content production brief. So content strategy briefs are internal facing.
• 18:08
  They're for our squad leads. They're for our program managers to look at and understand, okay, like, what is the concept? How would all these other channels, like-Tag into this.
• 18:19
  Are there any other ideas or things we're not thinking of, whatever, and all of that kind of coalesces there. Content production brief, though, really is specifically for the agency, right?
• 18:28
  Which is like, this is the format it's gonna be in, this is how long it needs to be here, like the people you need to interview or the resources to include, all of that jazz.
• 18:36
  And then that, of course, gets handed off to an agency, comes back in, goes through editing. So we are managing content strategy across several squads.
• 18:46
  We are managing content production for all the content strategies that are ultimately approved, and then other teams are designing those out.
• 18:55
  So there's creative teams, of course, that we hand everything off to, and go-to-market teams who manage the channels, so lifecycle, social, all the th- There's a web team, right, who are managing how all of that ends up getting live and showing up in front of the audiences that we want to see it.
• 19:12
  That's fascinating. I'm, like, super interested in that because what you just described is something that happens at a lot of companies by accident, and, and [chuckles] I think people resent it.
• 19:22
  [laughs] And say like this-- we're doing this on purpose. Yeah. That, you know, this is, this is what we feel is the best setup, then you can build around it. And I mean- Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:30
  I mean, if- I, I like the word you just described actually sounds really cool and interesting rather than like, "We're the content team, we have stuff that we wanna do, but we're always so busy doing stuff for other teams, now we're frustrated," you know?
• 19:41
  Right. Right, right, right. Yeah. It's... I mean, I'm really liking it.
• 19:45
  Again, it is a lesson in humility because I have run either single person or, like, two or three person content marketing teams almost my entire career.
• 19:57
  So I'm used to being the person that brings things to market, right? And because I'm so close to the content, I typically have a really good handle on how I want to see that brought to market.
• 20:08
  But I'm not a channel expert by any means. I don't know what works best on social media.
• 20:13
  For instance, I had our social person tell me the other day where I was like, "Hey, like, do you think we could, like, share out, like, these things? Like, we could get a little bit more traffic, like, whatever."
• 20:21
  And she was like, "Oh, Tracy, I don't think you're gonna like my answer." And I'm like, "Okay. [laughs] What is your answer?" And she's like, "That's not how social works.
• 20:31
  I'm not gonna share any of your links on the platform. I might, like, repurpose some of the content, but, like, I'm not gonna be driving you any traffic." And I was like, "Cool. Yeah, okay. That's fine."
• 20:41
  So like, and that's right. Like, that is the right answer. I'm not a channel expert. I am a content expert. I know how to bring stories to life. I know how to get things over the line.
• 20:52
  I know the importance of storytelling and how to build good stories. But really most importantly, in this role, I am decent at project management and, like, cross-organizational collaboration, right?
• 21:04
  Which is just like, who are we
• 21:08
  getting, like, feedback from and ideas from, and, like, how do we, like, coalesce that down into something that, like, can work for as many people as possible, understanding that you're not gonna make everybody happy with every single piece.
• 21:22
  And then, of course, making sure that you're getting that final sign-off, and a big part of that is, you know, at a large organization, when you work remotely, how do you get things in a format that, like, e- execs or senior directors, whoever it might be, can look at quickly and be like, "Yes, that concept makes sense," or, "Actually, I want this little tweak," in a way that doesn't take up a ton of their time or require a bunch of reading.
• 21:45
  And so that's been a big focus for me, and it was even a realization I had when I was out on Matt Liebow again this year, was one of the things that I feel like I could get way better at is learning how to story tell within decks, really short form decks, like five slides.
• 22:09
  How can I tell a story, an impactful, effective story with as few words as possible and five top 10 slides that will have the person reading it on my side on the same page saying, "Yes, go run with it"?
• 22:23
  That is a wildly challenging skill, and it seems to me that, like, the folks at a lot of these larger organizations that are able to get, like, really great ideas through and across, like that's something they're really, really good at.
• 22:37
  And I feel like as a younger... And that's not just at Klayvio, that's been at, like, other large companies I'm at too. But as a younger employee, I guess, I always thought it was, you know, a political game.
• 22:47
  And there is politics associated with it, but, you know, I remember thinking earlier in my career like, "Oh, like, they're just good at making decks. That doesn't mean they're good at executing." No, no, no.
• 22:59
  You have to be able to get people to agree with you, to sign off, to see the vision that you see. And if you can't do that, then you can't execute anyway.
• 23:08
  Like, that's a huge piece of it and something that I am very cognizant of and working on getting way better at personally. That's so...
• 23:16
  You know, I feel like cross-org collaboration is one of those things that emerges as like the final boss of career development. You know, it's like- [laughs] It's so hard. Yeah.
• 23:26
  And, like, related to that, it's the managing up, the advocating. It's all kind of falls into the same bucket of, like, these kinda collection of a handful of soft skills- Yeah... that allow you to get shit done.
• 23:36
  That allow you to get shit done. Yeah. It's the relationship building. I mean, it's all of it. And again, like, remote adds this layer to it that I just think is really interesting.
• 23:47
  Like, you know, at BigCommerce, you know, I was there for almost five years,
• 23:52
  I had really fantastic relationships with every single org, mostly because I could walk over and talk to them, or I'd run into somebody in a kitchen and, like, or I'd overhear a conversation and be like, "Oh, tell me more about that."
• 24:03
  It just, things did happen, like, easier, faster in that way.
• 24:07
  Even, like, feedback you'd get on, like, a presentation or a document that you made, it's easy for someone to be like, "Hey, actually, I need that to be, like, in one page and just, like, do more bullet points.
• 24:16
  Maybe pull this, like, part out," whatever. Remotely, a lot of that is harder, not because the, like, work is harder, but because-People take feedback differently written than they do when they hear it, right?
• 24:29
  It's harder to, like, overhear those hallway conversations. It's harder to, like, get time with someone. Often getting time with someone can be seen as rude. You're taking time out of their day for what?
• 24:38
  Do you have an agenda? I'm busy. Like, you know what I mean?
• 24:41
  Like there, it's, there's this, like, very different approach to it in a remote environment that I think all companies and a lot of employees are really still trying to figure out.
• 24:51
  I feel like what you just described is, like, a key part of, uh, some kind of dissatisfaction that I sense among content marketers lately.
• 24:59
  Like Tommy Walker did this survey recently called The State of Discontent and, like, just, like, the way the work has evolved has been, I think-- has-- not all of it has been fun.
• 25:08
  I mean, that's like a massive oversimplification, but like, you know, it's like things that used to be easy kind of became more difficult as, like, the culture of work has changed.
• 25:16
  I feel like you just described that really, really well, and I don't-- Like that-- I feel like that's still a very active situation.
• 25:22
  Like, that is definitely still playing out, probably will for a couple years as remote becomes really the norm, not just a thing we all do but don't really know how to do well yet. Right. Yeah.
• 25:33
  Like, you know, I remember when remote first started, I went to, I think, like, Basecamp's... Basecamp has a bunch of materials on, like, how to do remote work well. Oh, interesting.
• 25:42
  I feel like- Going, like, way back, I guess. Yeah. And I, like, built out, like-- I, like, read all that stuff, and I built out these, like, best practices for my small, like, five-person team, and it worked really well.
• 25:53
  How do you do that across a hundred and fifty people? Like tr-- Like how?
• 25:58
  It's really, really challenging, and it's not that there's, like, not ways to do it, but yeah, it does take, I think, a lot of trial and error and, I don't know. Like it's-- I, I don't know how to describe it.
• 26:10
  It's not even-- For me, it's not so much, like, a dissatisfaction with the work. It's more just, like, a recognition that, like, some of the ways that I try to present information, I'm like, "Oh, that's not working."
• 26:24
  Like they're not getting it. If I have to make a Loom to, like, walk them through it or convince them of it, it's not effective enough, right? Like I didn't- Yeah...
• 26:34
  spend enough time with it, and that's tough for someone like me who like, you know, doing this for a long time.
• 26:41
  I'm like, "Well, this worked at this other company," and it's like, okay, sure, but also it was really easy to go and talk to people at that company or, like, whatever else, right?
• 26:50
  I mean, things are so different at, at a lot of different companies. So I don't know.
• 26:54
  It's-- I am just personally very cognizant of I have work to do on my internal storytelling skills in shorter formats that my senior directors and executives can, like, immediately grasp, and that's really hard to do.
• 27:09
  I don't know many people who are very good at that. Like it's challenging. Yeah. Yeah. It is challenging. I want to be respectful of your time. Maybe one more question if you're good.
• 27:18
  What do you think about for twenty twenty-five? Is there a theme- Oh.... in your mind for the year, some personal goals or Klaviyo kind of content team goals that you're thinking about?
• 27:26
  Um, I mean, we are working on our goals and plans right now. I mean, for me, [chuckles] we'll see how possible this is. I would love to be able to plan out a full year calendar and, like, kinda stick to it.
• 27:39
  Like, that'd be cool. But again, I'm a content strategy org. I work off of, like, the goals of the squads that we serve, right? And, like, those goals can change really quickly, so that may or may not be reality.
• 27:53
  But we are working on doubling down on the stuff that we know worked last year, you know, whether that's benchmarks, predictions, calendars.
• 28:01
  None of it's gonna sound very cool to people 'cause it's not webinars or, like, going, you know, all in on webinars. None of it's very interesting by any means.
• 28:09
  It really is just what worked well last year and hopefully this year. I think my, like, team's goals in general are to do it at a higher quality with better visuals and with better go-to-market. Like that- Yeah....
• 28:20
  go-to-market is the key of what works for us, and I am just, like, one piece of that go-to-market puzzle.
• 28:27
  So Klaviyo really has done a good job at placing the importance and the effectiveness of our work on collaboration. I love it. That's great.
• 28:35
  Actually, I kinda like that twenty twenty-five is, like, not that int-- I mean, it's interesting in the sense that, like, it's back to basics. Right. Kinda going back to where we started this conversation.
• 28:42
  Like, I think that's fantastic. Great. Cool. So Tracy, thank you for coming back on. We really appreciate it. We will make sure we link to Contentment, your newsletter, in the show notes.
• 28:50
  I'll put a link to your last episode too. I mean, pretty much everything we talked about in there was evergreen, even though your role was slightly different at the time. Yeah.
• 28:56
  And then how about LinkedIn or personal website or anywhere else we should send folks to connect with you? Yeah, LinkedIn's good. LinkedIn's good. That and Contentment.
• 29:04
  I mean, I, I see all emails that come at me and at, from the Contentment email, so just respond to that and you'll have me. All right, cool. Awesome. Thanks, Tracy. We appreciate you. Thanks, everyone. Bye.
• 29:15
  Have a good one. [outro music]