Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / Building an Exit Ready Business: How to Design the Company Buyers Want | Viktor Popovic

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Building an Exit Ready Business: How to Design the Company Buyers Want | Viktor Popovic · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

0:00
Tool selection is not just about the features,
0:03
it's about the workflow fit, the integrations,
0:05
scalability, and whether the systems can actually operate the way
0:09
the business needs it to operate.
0:11
Don't be afraid to adjust. Don't be stuck like well this is the right thing.
0:15
This is the best. Little tweaks can go a long way and make a big difference.
0:18
Build the moat. Build something that ~ others would have a difficult time copying
0:24
and would add value at the end of the day when you're ready to exit.
0:28
You just have to trust your product,
0:30
you have to trust the process.
0:32
You have a plan, trust that process.
0:35
It's gonna deliver.
0:52
Hey, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
0:55
My name is Rick Meekins. I am your host today,
0:58
and in our studio we have Victor Popovic.
1:00
How are you today, sir?
1:02
Very good. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
1:05
it's a great pleasure. This is gonna be a great show.
1:07
I am looking forward to our conversation.
1:09
Ladies and gentlemen, however,
1:11
before we get started, if you haven't done it already,
1:13
I would be grateful if you would like,
1:14
subscribe, hit the bell so you can get updates every time we drop a new episode.
1:18
And without further ado, let's get to it.
1:20
So Victor, we would love to hear who you are,
1:24
what you do, and why you do what you do.
1:27
Hm, okay. So yeah, I'm Viktor Popovic.
1:31
originally born and raised in former Yugoslavia.
1:35
had an opportunity to come to US late nineties to study here in the US.
1:39
got my degree there and started a business early two thousands,
1:43
e commerce when e commerce was very,
1:45
very new to the world. and then I I exited
1:49
in late twenty twenty four and then since I started a new business.
1:53
completely different. It's in a in a payment processing arena and it's been
1:59
a lot of fun, a lot of learning,
2:00
a lot of research and networking,
2:03
meeting people, shaking hands and it's it's been fun.
2:06
That's amazing. That's amazing.
2:08
Tell me something. What made you I mean,
2:09
what made you jump into e commerce?
2:11
I mean, like you said, it's a new industry,
2:12
you know, which means that the platforms weren't mature,
2:15
you know, people weren't necessarily shopping online like they do now.
2:18
I mean, what what what made you think you could be successful there?
2:20
Yeah, so I you know my my history really starts with we me,
2:24
you know, leaving former Yugoslavia with civil war and going to Hungary initially,
2:29
claiming my refugee sta status,
2:32
ended up staying in Hungary for a few years,
2:34
and then moving to US, got my degree in aviation business management
2:39
and after nine eleven aviation was in a pretty tough spot,
2:43
so very hard to find a job.
2:45
And so my friend or or at the time really just more of a an acquaintance,
2:50
we were talking, he called me and he goes,
2:52
Do you wanna start an e-commerce business with me?
2:54
And I was like, without thinking or asking any questions,
2:57
like, Yeah, sure, of course. I'm
2:58
Ha ha ha ha.
3:00
ready to go. And so he actually asked me to come up with products related
3:05
to aviation industry. So I created this about forty,
3:07
forty products, and
3:08
Mm-hmm.
3:09
one of the products was
3:11
these surface pressure cleaners that are used for cleaning airport hangar floors
3:16
Mm, right?
3:17
and then my my my my f later partner you know he he and ran a keyword analysis
3:24
and we're talking about 2003 very early right it's like what's keyword analysis
3:29
right and
3:29
Right.
3:31
so he knew a little bit about e-commerce because he started previously
3:35
a year prior to that
3:37
another business in in cable management ~
3:39
Mm-hmm.
3:40
category and so he says you know what i discovered this is that anything with word
3:45
pressure like pressure washer pressure sprayer pressure cleaner is there's
3:49
a very high number of searches and relatively very low number
3:53
of websites offering or competing for those keywords and he goes why don't
3:58
we focus on pressure washers
4:00
And if it doesn't work out, we'll go back to the original idea.
4:03
Well, it worked out. not that it was easy in any shape or form,
4:07
because we had to figure out a lot of things,
4:09
but so it was really accidental how I ended up in e commerce
4:13
and specifically in water technology industry.
4:15
so yeah, those were the the early,
4:17
early beginnings right there.
4:20
You know, you you glazed you glazed over the the the Civil War,
4:23
you know, and and moving to Hungary.
4:25
you know, when I when I think about things like that,
4:28
when I think about situations where we have to,
4:30
you know, proceed without knowing,
4:33
you know, what's gonna happen,
4:35
without, you know, information,
4:37
I I feel like, you know, that helps to shape us,
4:39
you know, as entrepreneurs, our experiences that we have helped to shape us into,
4:43
you know, what we're able to do or,
4:45
you know, shy away from or whatever.
4:46
How d how did that experience shape the way that you you run your company,
4:50
you build your companies?
4:53
I I think that first move, immigration move really,
4:56
made me resilient in a way that there's no like it's funny because
5:03
I I use that analogy sometimes.
5:05
It's like there's nobody behind you.
5:09
There's nobody who asks, like you are it.
5:10
And you know,
5:11
Yeah.
5:11
a lot of times as as business owners
5:13
is like somebody walks up into your office and and they're looking for solutions.
5:17
Like you're it. The the ball stops with you.
5:19
So you have to be creative. And I think just just inability to go back
5:25
Mm.
5:26
to my original country, you know,
5:27
Yugoslavia with with war, which lasted really f about four and a half years,
5:31
it just it just it's a constant pressure and it it's very stressful.
5:37
you know, you move into a a country where you don't know the language,
5:40
right? Hungarian, very different than Serbian,
5:42
~
5:43
Yeah.
5:43
Slavic versus, you know, and then you don't know the system,
5:47
you don't know the culture, you don't have friends,
5:49
you don't have family, nobody to help you with the first job,
5:52
right? And so then you have to figure out your legal status in the country.
5:58
so it's it it it builds your character
6:01
you know, you you you strive to you know in the in the entire situation
6:05
to help yourself figure figure things out along the way.
6:08
There's no playbook, there's no formula by which you go and say,
6:12
Okay, if you do this, this will happen.
6:14
so I think that that that went a long way and and even though,
6:17
you know, I was just eighteen,
6:18
nineteen, it it really created something that toughened me up for f full life later.
6:24
I can imagine, I can imagine. I mean same thing,
6:26
you know, comes with states. It's like,
6:27
you know, I I it's fifty states,
6:29
you know, there's a a whole lot of real estate there.
6:32
I mean, how do you how do you pick,
6:34
you know, where you're gonna go,
6:34
where you're gonna land, et cetera,
6:35
et cetera. Did you did you have like people here that you did you say
6:39
you had people here that you that you knew that you could connect with?
6:42
So for Florida where we my wife and I moved to,
6:46
we have we've had friends who we sort of met through a long story,
6:51
but I was helping out someone in in Budapest come through and we kind
6:55
of became friends for for a few years and they they helped us.
6:58
but the the college was the main thing where where we really
7:01
f found that opportun because I started college back in Yugoslavia
7:05
and mechanical engineering, but again,
7:07
because of the war it just it wasn't it wasn't the the the situation that that
7:11
I wanted to you know participate in or the war.
7:13
so the college was important to me.
7:16
I was always gravitate towards graduating in something.
7:19
So I ended up being why I picked aviation because I ended up working
7:23
for Delta Airlines in Budapest because the official
7:27
languages English and I studied English,
7:30
you know, in in high school. And so luckily I didn't you know
7:34
I didn't necessarily need Hungarian to learn Hungarian right away and that
7:37
Mm-hmm.
7:37
kinda helped. so it's kinda all connected.
7:40
There's there's reasons you know why things happen the way that happened
7:44
but it's it's a lot of figuring out and and you know just like just like anything
7:49
else in life or business. You just you you you research you you you learn you try to
7:55
You know, look at your crystal ball,
7:57
a lot of times you don't have all the information or perfect information.
8:00
You still have to make the decision and so so you to just live with whatever
8:03
consequences come your way.
8:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I l I love I've I love the journey because,
8:09
you know, it does does toughen you up.
8:11
It it makes you look at things differently.
8:13
I think, you know, when I think about my experience,
8:16
you know, there there were like pivotal moments that just really reshape
8:20
the way that I think about, you know,
8:22
whether it's leadership or building a company or,
8:24
you know, whatever it is. What was like with the e commerce business in particular,
8:28
what was something that really
8:30
perhaps like a jarring moment that made you that gave you like that aha it's like
8:34
I need to do this differently or I need to,
8:36
you know, think differently about,
8:38
you know, this particular you know,
8:40
this particular approach.
8:41
there are a lot of situations being you know being thrown at you.
8:44
you know, and and and e commerce is no different than than
8:47
any other really business.
8:49
If you want something to happen,
8:52
you just have to find a way to make it work.
8:57
You know, initially the agreement we had with my partner was that his wife,
9:01
who was a web designer, was gonna build our website,
9:04
but all of a sudden their their business started to pick up.
9:07
So she she got busy and didn't have time.
9:09
So I'm like, okay.
9:11
Let me let me try to figure that so we bought a Dreamweaver,
9:14
the program for for l you know,
9:16
building building web pages. So I learned just enough so that I can edit images,
9:22
put up, put the content in and and make make make the pages live.
9:27
So you just you just you just do whatever it takes,
9:30
man. It's ~
9:31
Yeah.
9:32
again, there's no there's no there's no formula.
9:36
You know, there's many situations like that where you you you you a lot of times,
9:40
especially you know, in your first business,
9:42
you're most of the time reactive to things.
9:45
it's very different for me today.
9:47
You know, I'll just give you a story where we've had okay,
9:51
we need a CRM, okay, let's grab that one.
9:53
we need inventory management system,
9:55
let's grab that one. And you don't plan enough.
9:59
And you ended up we ended up with seven different product databases
10:04
and fifteen years later. And so think
10:08
Ha ha ha.
10:09
about you know when a vendor would come to you with you know hundred products,
10:14
okay, here's the price updates,
10:15
here's the catalog for I don't know,
10:17
next year. Now you have to have someone go in and update seven databases with these
10:23
hundred products, every single one.
10:24
And then if you need to update the selling price,
10:26
do it all over again.
10:28
And so you'll learn that next time around,
10:30
like this time, when I'm building,
10:31
you know, this this this company,
10:33
Avendo, you make sure that these tools can communicate and
10:38
you don't build unnecessary network and infrastructure that just it's in
10:42
a way to you know to each other or not speaking to each other.
10:45
And so I'm I'm more deliberate when I'm I'm I'm designing the company this time
10:51
versus just being
10:51
Mm.
10:51
reactive to to the situation.
10:54
Mm, mm. That's smart. So that's that's a that's a powerful lesson.
10:57
I I think I could I can certainly relate to that.
11:00
So this the the new company, you say you're you're building a delivery,
11:03
what what deliberately, What what do you when you think about,
11:08
hey, I'm gonna start a company that,
11:10
you know, XYZ, what what does that look like?
11:12
Yeah, one of the the biggest challenges in in building Avendo operating system
11:17
was not just documenting processes.
11:20
Our challenge had three layers,
11:21
tool discovery, tool evaluation,
11:24
and then tool integration. And I was figuring out which tools
11:29
the company actually needed and what tools we could realistically use
11:33
and do and whether these tools can work together.
11:37
and communicate. And so early on,
11:39
just an example, we selected Apollo,
11:42
and I'm not advertising or anything,
11:44
it's just it's a it's a it's a software we chose for generating cold emails,
11:49
outbound emails. And
11:51
Mm-hmm.
11:51
but later we learned through implementation that our original setup was
11:57
not set for the for the long term.
11:59
operation and so and the reason was because the the the warm up tool
12:04
we wanted warm-up email tool that we wanted did not properly integrate with Apollo
12:09
and so we had to change the direction and and and move to a different software
12:14
and so that was the important lesson.
12:15
You know Tool selection is not just about the features,
12:19
Mm-hmm.
12:19
You know,
12:20
it's about the w the workflow fit,
12:22
the integrations,
12:22
Mm-hmm.
12:24
scalability, and whether the systems can actually operate the way
12:28
the business needs it to operate.
12:29
so it's it's it's a lot of research.
12:32
I've I've learned that you know,
12:33
in in initial phase of building the company requires you to do a
12:38
lot of research again, just to it's n n not just identifying what features we need.
12:44
in order to to to do what we intended to do.
12:46
but how is this gonna be connecting to other things in the company?
12:51
And so it's it's it's a lot of upfront work,
12:54
but I've learned just just a just a quick thing,
12:57
you know, I it was a period of time when when I had to pivot in
13:01
in my Ultimate Washer business when we lost all the Google rankings with this
13:05
penguin update, and all the organic
13:08
spots on page one. We we literally lost overnight so we had to pivot.
13:13
I hired a consultant during that that period and he he he taught
13:17
me something very important that
13:21
The work that we're putting in up front,
13:23
it's it's eighty percent is really planning and then twenty percent is execution.
13:27
And that has been so true for for for any of my large projects that I've I've kind
13:32
of stuck to that. I'm like, I know it's a grind and you don't see
13:35
the result 'cause it's just about planning and you're reading
13:37
and researching and and putting things together.
13:40
but it it's so true that the planning is such a critical phase of of
13:43
any project or or b business that that one is trying to build.
13:47
I've kind of
13:49
set that mindset every time I I do something like that.
13:52
Yeah, yeah. One one of the one of the things about entrepreneurship
13:56
is like especially when we're starting a new company,
13:58
we've got, you know, kind of like a blank page,
14:00
you know, and there are all kinds of things that we can do.
14:03
I know for for me, one of the things I do is I,
14:05
you know, kind of create that North Star.
14:06
It's like this is, you know, this is why we're in business,
14:08
you know, it's you know, we're gonna change the world or whatever that's gonna look
14:11
like. But the the other thing that happens is
14:15
There's so many ideas that pop up,
14:18
you know, as you're going through the build process,
14:20
as you're seeing opportunities that maybe you didn't consider before.
14:23
How do you how do you keep track of,
14:26
you know, what what you how do you how do you finish?
14:29
You know, it's it's like you put this idea up here and you you're working
14:32
on this other thing, it's just like,
14:33
my gosh, you know, it's like this opportunity is just like,
14:36
you know, a once in a lifetime thing.
14:38
How do you how do you manage? How do you prioritize these as they're
14:41
as they're presenting themselves?
14:44
Yeah. so so yeah, there's there's a couple of things tied to that really.
14:47
I can say that as far as the planning that we've done,
14:51
I would say we we changed or adjusted probably 70% of the things
14:57
and I'm talking about the the the credit card payment processing business.
15:00
Yeah.
15:02
So you have to be able to adapt,
15:03
but not to the detriment of you're just that where you get excited about
15:08
A new idea and you want to jump on that.
15:10
For me, it's is this new addition is going to make us better?
15:17
is it substantially better than the other option that we originally planned for?
15:23
so I'm I'm I guess I'm I'm I'm pretty disciplined
15:28
in with decisions that we make as long as they continue to be better than what
15:35
the new case you know circumstances present themselves with.
15:38
~
15:38
Mm, okay.
15:40
so but yeah if if if if there I mean I I can probably come up with some
15:44
of the examples that we've had.
15:46
it just you have to be able to pivot.
15:49
you have to be able to change.
15:50
you know for instance I'll give you an example for for credit card processing
15:54
business I thought that the biggest challenge will be
16:00
reaching out or finding the the right decision makers at at credit-card-
16:05
processors businesses and actually that wasn't the problem it's
16:09
it was actually pretty easy to to speak to the to decision makers it
16:14
was the fact that we didn't speak the language initially so people weren't really
16:20
getting what we were trying to do.
16:22
Yeah, yeah.
16:22
So we
16:23
we've had a lot of we hit a lot of no's
16:26
Yeah.
16:26
and so we ended up changing I think our pitch probably seven or eight times,
16:31
Yeah.
16:31
adjusting and tweaking and and how we presented things.
16:35
So at the end of the day it's it's the same thing we were what we were doing
16:38
as far as the service, but how we delivered and the the the I think we
16:42
the the the lingo that we've learned of what they like to
16:46
here in language and once we started speaking the language it became
16:49
a hundred times easier. So it's just
16:51
Yeah, I'm not.
16:52
don't Don't be afraid to to to adjust.
16:55
Don't don't be stuck like well this is the right thing.
16:58
This is the best. It's just Little tweaks can can make can go a long way
17:02
and make a big difference.
17:04
You know, one of the other problems that that we face as as entrepreneurs
17:07
is is is falling in love with an idea.
17:10
You know, we have this one particular concept and you know,
17:13
sometimes we go like too far down the rabbit trail,
17:16
you know, trying to make something that doesn't work work.
17:19
D y have you ever had that experience?
17:21
And you know, if so what was
17:22
Yeah. you know, I I think for me and and I'll again go go to to
17:26
to credit card processing business is
17:28
you're you're we're basically disrupting the industry.
17:31
You know the industry has been operating for for the fat past fifty,
17:35
sixty years the same way.
17:36
Mm-hmm.
17:37
They they they they onboard the merchant and they assign a assign a rate
17:42
and that stay that rate stays with with with the merchant for as long
17:45
as they they use the services.
17:48
Mm-hmm.
17:48
And we're trying to change that where the
17:51
The transact we're capturing basically the transaction coming through let's
17:55
say online portal, and then we are taking that information from the card
17:59
and we're sending it out to multiple payment processors in which then payment
18:03
processor returned the rate real time.
18:05
And then our algorithm chooses the best available rate
18:08
for that particular transaction.
18:10
So thus saving the money to to the merchants,
18:13
and that's the goal. And this is something that
18:16
you know, stayed with me when I was a merchant,
18:19
right? It's it was a pain point that I've experienced.
18:22
I said, how can we have options in everything?
18:25
Like if I want to buy a pressure washer hose,
18:27
I can go to to three different suppliers and I can ask for a price
18:31
for a thousand hoses. And you know,
18:33
you decides the quality, okay,
18:35
maybe shipping costs, you say,
18:36
okay, this is this is who I want to buy from.
18:38
And that that wasn't available in in credit card processing.
18:42
You know, I had
18:43
Bank of America for seven years,
18:45
and then I had Authorize.Net for 14 years.
18:48
So 21 years of of being in business.
18:50
I only had two payment processors.
18:52
And that says a lot. You know,
18:54
we as business owners, we kind of get buried with the day-to-day stuff
18:59
and operations and and and whatnot.
19:01
And we we a lot of times forget that there's this fixed cost that we kind
19:04
of assume it's there and and that we can't touch it,
19:07
but that's what we're trying to change and
19:10
So yeah, really the the challenge has been I don't want to say changing
19:14
the mindset of the processors,
19:16
but them accepting that there's something new on the market and that they
19:22
may have to compete a little bit more for these merchants and their transactions.
19:26
And so that
19:27
Mm-hmm.
19:27
has been kind of the the the uphill battle of getting them on the same page that
19:32
that it's okay, you know, if you have the good rates,
19:35
you know.
19:36
Co come come and join us and and you'll get these merchants and you'll
19:40
get their transactions. Just try to give us your best rate possible.
19:44
Mm-mm. So they're competing to get to they're competing to get onto your platform.
19:47
That's amazing. My question becomes,
19:51
you know, with with any, you know,
19:52
disruptive technology, with any new thing,
19:55
you know, we essentially have to educate folks.
19:57
What how do you come up with a plan that's gonna educate both,
20:01
you know, your vendor, you know,
20:03
the credit card processors and you know your consumer,
20:06
the you know, the business owners that are that are using your services.
20:09
I mean it seems
20:10
You know, it's always you kind of alluded to the idea that it was an uphill battle.
20:13
I mean there's you know traditionally that's been an extraordinary cost.
20:19
You know, we didn't, you know,
20:20
sometimes things didn't come to market just because of the cost of
20:23
of educating your market. What was your approach?
20:25
How did you feel like and why did you feel like this was gonna
20:28
be something that would be successful?
20:31
You know, I was a member of Entrepreneurs’ Organization (EO) for over
20:34
a decade in in here in South Florida.
20:37
And every time you s you speak to a business owner and if if if the topic
20:42
is credit card fees, everybody was frustrated.
20:45
I mean every single owner you speak to,
20:48
it's like it's it's a fixed cost,
20:50
it's given costs, it's there, I can't do anything about it.
20:53
Mm-hmm.
20:53
And you know, for instance
20:56
You'll get a statement at the end of the month,
20:58
and it'll be multiple pages depending on how many transactions you've you've
21:02
processed that month. And you're looking at it,
21:04
it's fee, this, this fee, that fee that,
21:06
and you don't know what you don't understand,
21:08
and you hand it over to your to your accounting team,
21:10
they
21:10
Mm-hmm.
21:11
reconcile it, and that's it. You forget about it.
21:13
Yeah.
21:13
And so that has been the norm,
21:16
and that's what we're trying to change.
21:18
So I knew that just from speaking to entrepreneurs and business owners that
21:24
This was a problem. And and then I started thinking about it.
21:27
Is this is this is there a better way to do this?
21:30
How can how can this be done? So I and I thought I knew about payment processing
21:34
before I I started this, but boy,
21:36
was I wrong. There's so much. There's so like just this PCI DSS compliance document.
21:40
It's like 400 pages long. And
21:42
Mm.
21:42
there's technical parts to it,
21:44
and there's a l a lot of legal parts to it.
21:46
And so
21:49
I think in in that sense where because I need you know,
21:52
us as a business, we need both parties.
21:53
We we need the the merchants and we need also the processors.
21:56
~
21:56
Mm-hmm.
21:58
the processor side, believe it or not,
22:00
I mean I'm sorry, the the merchant side,
22:02
believe it or not, is is fairly easy.
22:06
You know, in you can in in one sentence speaking to the business owner and say,
22:11
We have platform, we're payment processors compete in real time.
22:16
give you the best rate. It's it's been very very easy.
22:19
So what really was a difference maker,
22:23
and this is what you're we're you what you're looking for,
22:26
how how do you how did you figure out?
22:28
I didn't, it just happened. Once we onboarded multiple merchants and
22:32
we had the customers, we had the clients,
22:35
and once
22:35
Mm-hmm.
22:35
we're able to share that say okay yes this is the potential you know
22:41
Pay out or revenue that you'll be processing,
22:45
speaking now to payment processors.
22:47
~
22:47
Yeah.
22:49
that's when they started to have the appetite to speak to us.
22:54
Right? Before that, it was like just like hypothetical.
22:58
Well, this is what we're planning,
22:59
and this is our marketing, and this is we're gonna bring in this many.
23:01
It was just us telling them. But once it says
23:05
We g you know, we sent them two or three of these egg as an example.
23:08
Like here's the merchants that had onboarded already with us.
23:10
They're just waiting to switch,
23:12
right? Processors, okay, you know.
23:15
And it was multi million dollar companies.
23:17
And that that that was a difference maker and that's what really started moving
23:21
the tide and then processors started like onboarding with us and
23:24
Mm, mm, mm-hmm.
23:24
and and moved things
23:26
forward for us.
23:28
You know, one one of the things that we talked about in in in the pre-show
23:31
was the mindset that you had about like company goals.
23:35
You you talked about in terms of not building a million dollar company
23:38
or multi-million dollar company but a a hundred million dollar company.
23:41
Can you can you go into into why that thinking is what what why you came
23:46
up with that thinking and why it's important?
23:48
You know, you you you I think you first business you you build,
23:52
it's it's sporadic, it's chaotic.
23:55
and and I probably could have grown my my e-commerce business further.
24:00
but I I've I've also got got kind of a little complacent,
24:03
a little little satisfied. And then when this came this idea came along
24:12
when you're designing it by your own will and you say,
24:18
This is what I want, and this is this is how far I can like you
24:22
you you're choosing it's hard to explain,
24:24
but you you don't hesitate so much on the money side,
24:28
but you say, you know what, this is we are going to spend this kind of money
24:33
on this marketing because
24:34
Mm-hmm.
24:35
we know it's going to help us.
24:37
Mm-hmm.
24:37
When
24:37
when you're in a position where you're building your first business,
24:41
I think you are a lot more you know,
24:42
you're holding back, you're you're you're not sure,
24:45
you're like you you don't have in you know,
24:47
you haven't made enough money in your life and you there's things you want
24:50
to still do. And I think I have more mental freedom in in that regard,
24:55
and I'm not
24:55
Mm-hmm.
24:56
afraid to invest and spend money.
25:00
because I see the upside. And so it's not,
25:02
I don't know if it's necessarily the motivation to say I want a hundred million
25:06
or a billion. it would be great to to have and say,
25:10
okay, yes, I'm capable sort of to have that sort of like satisfaction that
25:16
you you have the knowledge and the skill to take the company to that level.
25:19
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
25:21
but for me it's not necessarily that,
25:23
This is how much money I can make.
25:25
It's more like I made it, you know,
25:28
to to this level, you know,
25:29
No.
25:29
and and being surrounded with with entrepreneurs most of my life,
25:34
and then you see, you know, this guy exits a company,
25:37
sells it to Amazon six hundred million dollars,
25:39
or this guy sells, you know, his the real estate business,
25:43
hundred million dollars. Like it's like it excites you,
25:45
it motivates you. It's like, yeah,
25:46
Mm-hmm.
25:46
I
25:46
I wanna be that next guy.
25:48
Mm-hmm.
25:48
Excuse me.
25:50
So yeah, th there you go. I gotta get some water.
25:52
So so so it sounds like it's not necessarily,
25:54
hey, I need to put this much money in my pocket,
25:56
but more along the lines of hey,
25:58
I have the capability. You know,
26:00
I it's this is, you know, almost like checking the box or or gold star for use.
26:04
Is that is that accurate?
26:06
Yeah, yeah, and it and it challenges,
26:08
challenges along the way. You know,
26:09
you you you you look back and I could I there's similarities in in some things that
26:16
we've done. Like for instance with my e-commerce business,
26:18
when we were starting, believe it or not,
26:20
it took me six months to get the first vendor,
26:24
manufacturer, to believe that we can sell pressure washers online.
26:31
Because it was unheard of. The way they used to sell these machines,
26:35
they used to have regional reps,
26:37
and then they would in the morning they would load the equipment in a van,
26:39
they
26:40
Mm-hmm.
26:41
would drive around a city, make stops
26:42
Mm-hmm.
26:43
at certain maintenance stores and shops,
26:46
they pull out the machine, who kept the garden zones,
26:49
and they would demo it. And then people are like,
26:52
okay, yeah, I'll buy one or two or none.
26:54
And and this is how they used to sell.
26:56
So we came and we're making these calls.
26:59
And I'm calling and and people were hanging up on me,
27:03
you know. It's like, online, what do you mean you're gonna sell?
27:05
How are you gonna demo? And I'm No,
27:06
we're not gonna demo it. Like,
27:08
how we're gonna have pictures online.
27:09
It was it was just it was so new.
27:11
It took us six months to get the first.
27:13
It was a supplier out of Iowa,
27:15
a cam spray is the name of the of the business.
27:17
and and there was another story that I had a year later,
27:21
was sharing the office with my business partner,
27:24
And I was in the office, somebody calls me from front desk,
27:27
you have somebody here to meet you.
27:28
I'm like, okay, I don't have an appointment.
27:30
And so I go to the front, and the person shakes my hand,
27:34
he says, I'm a national sales manager for Pressure Pro.
27:37
He says, 'You you contacted us last year,
27:40
and he says, 'We didn't know what to do with you.' But he says,
27:43
'Now we type in pressure washer,
27:45
and you come up number one.' He says,
27:47
'We don't we want to do business with you.' Just like that,
27:50
right?
27:51
Wow.
27:51
And so
27:52
I draw these similarities to these processors,
27:56
believe it or not, you know, 25 years later or 23,
27:59
and I'm like, I'm getting, you know,
28:01
these rejections, but it really reminds me of because it was so new,
28:05
people just don't understand it.
28:08
And you just have to s stay the course,
28:11
trust the plan.
28:12
Mm-hmm.
28:13
And and like I said, we tweaked tweak tweaked our our our our our presentations.
28:19
And once we started speaking that language,
28:21
with the help of having merchants under under our umbrella sort of onboarding them,
28:26
it it it changed the mindset for the processors.
28:30
Mm. Mm-mm. Mm. Makes sense. You you talked,
28:33
maybe you didn't talk about it.
28:36
You yes, you talked about like your your presentations a little bit earlier
28:40
in the in the conversation. And one of the things that came to mind for
28:44
me is is like when I think about that,
28:46
I think about our sales process and you know just SOPs in general.
28:50
And you talked about the the the the way that you deliberately gr grow this company.
28:56
What did you what did you do, you know,
28:57
in terms of just developing these standard operating procedures
29:01
for making sure everything's happening the way it the way that it needs to?
29:05
I've always on was on top of of of guys.
29:09
Whether they were in in IT or or a warehouse or or bookkeeping,
29:13
I was relentless because I've learned from other entrepreneurs who around
29:19
me who were actually exiting and they've had you know pushbacks from their buyers
29:26
saying that them needing to take over the company,
29:30
they were concerned about
29:32
that the owners were the playbook and and you know as when the new buyer comes
29:36
in they want to be able to just come in and they obviously have staff but
29:40
Mm-hmm.
29:40
they want to know if they're bringing someone in they can be trained properly
29:44
and and then and they don't have to have the owner there for the next
29:46
two or previous owner for the next two years.
29:49
And so that that stayed with me f for for many years and I've always
29:55
was very diligent about like I said,
29:57
anything if
29:58
If Amazon changed how we prepped things,
30:01
you know,
30:02
Mm-hmm.
30:02
it's not this label, it's that label,
30:04
or the height of the, you know,
30:06
palette, you know, size, the dimensions.
30:09
You know, I've always like, guys,
30:11
make sure you update the procedure,
30:12
make sure you update the that procedure,
30:14
those steps. And so I and it helps then not just with with the with the exit,
30:19
but throughout. When you bring in a new new employee,
30:22
~
30:22
Mm-hmm.
30:23
You know, you first we would what we would do,
30:25
we would have them just kind of read some of these policies and procedures
30:29
and then we would get them to you know,
30:31
they would work under someone and and they'd be trained.
30:33
~ or
30:34
Mm-hmm.
30:34
if somebody needs to retrain, they're they're already doing their job,
30:37
but maybe something was missed,
30:39
there was a mistake or error, okay,
30:40
let's go back to the procedure.
30:42
What was missed? How should we handle it?
30:44
And so it it helps
30:46
you know, instantly it helps training and helps with the exit.
30:50
And I've always been very fond of of creating these procedures.
30:53
Mm, mm. That's smart. That's smart.
30:55
and you have the you have the benefit of,
30:57
you know, already, you know, already doing an exit.
31:00
So I'm curious, what other kinds of things are you doing in this company
31:04
to prepare for, you know, an ultimate exit?
31:07
You know, I was reading a book,
31:08
and you know, one of the things is is besides trying to protect yourself
31:14
is Build the moat. Right? Build something that others can h have would have
31:19
a difficult time copying and would add value at the end of the day when you're ready
31:25
to exit. So one of the things is really was
31:30
being able to patent our idea or or our our our algorithm and and
31:35
how the decisions are being made and how do we get the data and what
31:39
we do with data. And so we we started that process at the beginning of this year.
31:44
that's one of the things. Another thing was really we were looking
31:47
how do we structure how do we get paid in a structure that we're treated as
31:52
a as a software company because
31:55
I know that for the exit for the for SaaS company and for subscription type type
32:02
revenue, the multiple is much greater than if you were just getting
32:06
a percentage share from each each transaction.
32:09
So all those things were put put into the works and how you know how how
32:15
how do we structure this at the beginning so that we maximize
32:19
are multiple at the exit. And so that's why this is more exciting for me,
32:24
because it's it's deliberate. Like I'm like I said,
32:26
I'm I'm it's there's no other way for me this,
32:28
but I'm really designing this for my taste and how I want it to look like.
32:32
And and that's why it's so so exciting for me to to to keep working on this.
32:38
Mm. Mm. You know, it's what's what's funny is what's going through my mind
32:42
is is we've talked a lot about engineering the business.
32:45
And, you know, with your engineering background,
32:47
I mean that, you know, it makes sense.
32:48
It's like, you know, the all the parts and pieces have to fit together.
32:51
What I'm curious about is is the software side though,
32:54
the the leadership side of things.
32:56
What what kind of a leader are you?
32:57
What kinds of things have you learned,
32:59
you know, over the past, you know,
33:00
X number of years as a leader?
33:02
I in the beginning I had a very tough time learning to delegate.
33:07
That's probably
33:08
Mm-hmm.
33:09
mo most of entrepreneurs struggle with that because as we know we're gonna
33:13
do it faster, quicker, better,
33:14
is is what we think. Really just relinquishing that and and embracing
33:20
the fact that there's other things that we need to be doing.
33:24
And you know, even just going from e-commerce to this.
33:29
I'm more tied to computer in a sense I'm I'm I'd I'd say probably half of
33:35
my day is constantly on these video calls.
33:37
Mm.
33:38
And so that's very different from from where I was with with e commerce,
33:42
where I was more on a relationship level.
33:45
I I I maintain a lot of our relationship with vendors and reps and regional reps
33:50
and and even till till till very end.
33:53
I had some customers who
33:55
Who I I sort of kept I had to say selfish to myself,
33:59
but they wanted to deal with me directly because they've they've been
34:01
our customers for 15, 16, 17 years,
34:03
and some of them international.
34:05
And they always wanted to. So I've even towards the end,
34:08
I was still doing sales on on on in some of the cases,
34:12
and I enjoyed that. So that has all changed.
34:15
And yeah, just just being able to
34:19
recognize you know where your strengths are where the company needs you.
34:22
I'm reading a lot of contracts,
34:23
a lot of agreements and we do and my partner is is a is a licensed attorney
34:28
so that that's a that's a huge advantage in this case but still understanding what's
34:33
in these these contracts and how we want them structured.
34:37
so that has been my my my main focus with with Avendo and I think also I
34:43
I won't shy away from speaking to to merchants and speaking to other business owners
34:48
and it's it's it's fun that way too,
34:50
'cause you know, we s we speak the same language.
34:53
Mm. Mm-hmm. Five years from now,
34:55
how do you how do you see yourself evolving as a leader or as a
34:58
or as an entrepreneur?
34:59
I wanna learn. I wanna continue to learn not just about our industry
35:03
and there's so much more technology wise and I'm just talking about now on on
35:10
a on a on a industry level with with credit card processing.
35:14
yeah, I think it's it that's one of the ways that you can continue to grow
35:19
as a person and and help grow the business is
35:22
I like to be knowledgeable. I I feel very cornered if I don't know
35:29
the topic we're discussing. So if if we have a a a group meeting and we need
35:33
to make the decisions,
35:34
Mm-hmm.
35:35
I I feel I feel like I'm I'm I'm handicapped in some way.
35:38
Like I don't I don't I don't like I tr I trust the team and I'll I'll I'll
35:42
go with with what with decisions are being being made,
35:45
but I I like to know as as as best as I can so that
35:48
I know what they're talking about.
35:49
So I don't know if that's a weakness or or a strength in this case,
35:52
but but you know, it's just it's just my personality and and you know trusting
35:57
the team, you know, being able to empower them,
36:00
you know, authorize them and empower them to make those decisions.
36:03
I I really wanna hire people that will will get this company
36:09
off off to to to new heights. And I know that,
36:12
you know, just
36:13
myself and and and CFO that we have currently,
36:17
you know, it's it's not enough.
36:18
You c you gotta build that the team.
36:20
You gotta have more substantial experience and knowledge and and all that.
36:26
So I think that's gonna be my growth really being able to recognize
36:31
you know all these weaknesses that that that we have as as as leaders
36:37
and bringing in
36:38
individuals that can fill in those those gaps.
36:41
Mm mm. That's wise. That's wise.
36:43
Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna ask you,
36:44
you know, what kinds of things are you putting in place now to prepare,
36:47
you know, for that five year down the road.
36:49
But it sounds like you're you're kind of,
36:51
you know, putting that that block and tackle in place.
36:53
Is that is that accurate?
36:55
I am, believe it or not, planting the little seeds here and there.
36:58
I'm I'm I've I've I've fortunate enough to connect with a lot of people
37:03
on on LinkedIn. someone who I have worked with and whose careers have really taken
37:08
to to unbelievable heights. And so I'm kinda here and there touching base with with
37:14
some and so that that probably next year
37:16
when the time is right we we will we will be trying to recruit some
37:20
of these top candidates. So yeah you gotta
37:22
Nice. Very nice, very nice.
37:24
you gotta you gotta start start doing it early.
37:26
You know it's it's it's I don't think I don't think it's we're gonna be in
37:30
a good in a good spot if we just say,
37:33
you know, next week we need we need a CFO,
37:35
like let's hire someone. you need to build that relationship,
37:39
I believe at least, ~
37:40
Mm-hmm.
37:41
ahead of time and and and
37:43
you know, knowing knowing, you know,
37:45
characters and knowing people and what they are doing and and following them
37:49
and reading their posts and commenting and just kinda building that little
37:52
by little.
37:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's smart.
37:55
That's smart. I love that. I love that.
37:56
I'm thinking about like my own company and you know,
37:59
we're sit we're sit we're sitting on that that that precipice,
38:01
like, you know, we need to bring in some people.
38:03
It's just like it's yeah, I love that I love that idea.
38:07
as you know our our audience, you know,
38:09
these are these are entrepreneurs,
38:11
you know, we're we're folks, you know,
38:12
we get up every day, we do the thing,
38:14
and and we've got goals, you know,
38:15
we want to win in some way, shape,
38:17
or form.
38:18
So my question for you, and it's really based on the name of the podcast,
38:21
you know, Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast is,
38:23
you know, for us, you know, identifying winning is not always the hard part.
38:28
The hardest part sometimes is just maintaining that relentless pursuit.
38:31
I mean, as you know, I mean it gets hard some days.
38:33
It gets really, really hard to do the thing.
38:35
So my request of you is is give our audience something that they can take with them
38:40
to maintain that relentless pursuit.
38:44
For me it has been an and and I I mentioned it briefly here,
38:47
it's trusting the plan.
38:49
You you you you build a plan, obviously you've done your research.
38:53
you you made the decisions. This is this are the stages you're gonna go through.
38:58
Obviously you wanna be prepared if you need to meet make tweaks along the way.
39:03
but I it it's trust me I've I've I've gotten
39:10
so many no's so many no's ~
39:12
Mm-hmm.
39:13
in in even with with the credit card business.
39:15
You just have to trust your product,
39:17
you have to trust the process.
39:20
You have a plan, trust that process.
39:22
It's gonna deliver. if I've had days,
39:26
it's like I go, I go to my wife,
39:27
I'm like, I this processor is asking for this,
39:31
this, and this. I said, I I don't know how we're gonna jump over that.
39:34
And then a couple of days later,
39:36
we're speaking to another processor,
39:37
and they on their own, they lay out.
39:41
A solution unin un in un unrelated to this situation,
39:46
Uh-huh.
39:47
and they say something, and I'm like,
39:49
that is so simple. Let's implement that over here.
39:52
So it just it just it just happened.
39:54
but I've been in situations that it's like,
39:57
how are we gonna come out of this?
39:59
How do we? It's like no way around,
40:01
you know, contracts and and agreements,
40:04
and you're negotiating and they're holding their position,
40:06
and and you're not gonna like,
40:08
okay,
40:09
I could do that, but that's gonna hurt us in a couple of years.
40:12
It's not really a good good situation for us.
40:15
And and and sometimes you may just have to take take a a little weaker deal just
40:20
to get the ball rolling. And then you know,
40:23
maybe at some point you have more a little more leverage.
40:27
and I remember this with my e-commerce business where initially
40:30
we didn't have enough buying power,
40:32
we couldn't negotiate.
40:34
the prices as as we wanted them.
40:36
but once we landed you know once we established ourselves as a seller
40:41
of authority on Amazon, boy did we have buying power.
40:45
Like, yeah, give me ten thousand
40:45
Yeah.
40:46
hoses. It's like you like they come to you.
40:49
They want your business. It's it's it changes.
40:51
So ~
40:51
Mm-hmm.
40:53
before it was like, well I don't know if I can let you sell into that area.
40:57
You know, and five years later like they're not asking anymore.
41:00
They just like
41:01
Where where do we ship?
41:02
Yes, yes, yes,
41:03
yes. That's that's a beautiful thing.
41:04
That's a beautiful thing. Excellent,
41:06
excellent. So tell me something.
41:07
If somebody wants to get in touch with you,
41:09
learn more about you or you know,
41:11
you know, get your services, what's the best way to do that?
41:15
So company's website is Avendo.tech.
41:18
if you wanna reach to me directly,
41:20
reach by all means do. I'm an open book.
41:22
I I check check LinkedIn accounts.
41:24
So a LinkedIn would be the best best way and I can I can provide the link for that.
41:28
so yeah, by all means reach out.
41:30
We're also I just want to throw in we're looking to partner with three different
41:35
groups of
41:36
businesses as a referral partner type program,
41:39
accounting firms, fractional CFOs,
41:42
and business coaches. we want to be in position to refer clients to each other
41:46
and we have a great program for those three groups.
41:48
So if you're interested, reach out to me and and we'll get you on the on the plan.
41:53
So that was accountants, CFOs and coaches?
41:56
Was that?
41:57
accounting firms, fractional CFOs and business coaches.
42:01
Okay, perfect, perfect,
42:03
we'll get that information on on the on the website.
42:05
So if anybody wants to wants to get that information,
42:08
they can see the list and they can get in touch with you directly.
42:11
Was there anything else that you wanted to add?
42:13
Thank you for having me. You you've made it easy for me.
42:15
Great questions and I appreciate you.
42:18
likewise, my friend. Thank you so much for being on the show.
42:20
And folks, thank you so much for watching or listening to another episode
42:23
of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
42:25
We'll catch you next time.