Latest / Sense Only / Trauma Is Not Who You Are: How to Heal What Happened to You | Jacob Modak - Ep 27

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Trauma Is Not Who You Are: How to Heal What Happened to You | Jacob Modak - Ep 27 · Sense Only

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_06: What we understand trauma to be is it's not the definition of who we are, it's the embodied residue on the outside of the truth of who we are.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not saying just get over it.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_06: Sometimes it's very important to actually be able to uh allow oneself to feel as much of the emotion as they need to.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_06: You can't heal trauma from the same stage of consciousness that you were at when you experienced it.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_06: So it's a place of you can set a healthy boundary without hating someone, a moment where one is able to unburden themselves from the weight of carrying that kind of resentment around because it just destroys yourself because you can't, and also physiologically, you cannot rest when you're in that space.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_06: Because when you are holding that, your system still thinks you're fighting something.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_06: Just a beautiful statue.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_06: Just imagine one.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_06: And now you imagine you start covering it in mud, right?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_06: Just keep covering it, even to the point where you can't see any of that statue anymore.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_06: And then I ask the question does it stop being a beautiful statue, even though it's covered in mud?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_06: No, that's the truth of trauma.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_05: Greetings and salutations.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_05: I'm Alicia Mullings, and this is a sense only podcast.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_05: This podcast is for those who are tired of the noise, distraction, and disconnection in the world.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's for those who know that we need to be the change that we want to see in the world.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_05: Today, my guest is out here just making such a powerful difference in people's lives.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_05: We know that a lot of people, probably most people, have some form of trauma in their their existing life and also in their history, and sometimes this can cause major blucks in moving forward.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_05: So when this person applied to be on this podcast, I was like, this is definitely the person we need to come and share their gift and their wisdom with everyone, and um, I'm happy to accommodate.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_05: So I am over the moon to welcome Mr.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_05: Jacob Modak.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_05: Hello, everybody.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_06: How's that for being serious and profound to start off with?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_06: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you very much.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_04: That's okay.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um yeah, I really appreciate the uh the invitation to come and just sit down and share what some of what I know and what I've learned and uh yeah, just help support as many people dealing with this particular issue um as much as possible because uh I've I've been there before, so I I know what I know what it feels like.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_05: So Jacob, tell us um just who you are and what it is specifically that you do.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_06: So um first and foremost, before any of the kind of professional stuff, I'm just fellow human being and uh just someone who went through their own healing journey with this stuff.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_06: So like we can get into the technicalities a bit later, but um a lot of the typical unresolved trauma things like unpleasant childhood memories and anxious states and depressive states and chronic fatigue and all the rest of it.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_06: I just kind of went through my own journey, and then that led me to just want to understand why.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_06: And then going through that process, uh, I kind of found certain core pillars of wisdom in the forms of certain teachers, and originally it was primarily just for myself, and then fast forward to 2020, which instigated a uh sort of serious reflective period, as it probably did for everybody, it became clear at that point um because this journey started for me when I was consciously when I was 14, so I'm 33 now.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_06: Um 2020 is when it became clear that now uh now's the time to do this professionally.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_06: It was just very, very clear that this is what is aligned for me and I want to do this.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_06: And so um that's when I went, took the steps to uh train professionally in a holistic institute, which I'd already been connected with and stud and studying the work of, which is the Czech Institute, which was founded by Paul Czech, who's one of the most important pillars of holistic wisdom, just because he's one of the people that really allowed people like me to bring holistic, well, continue this holistic work.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_06: He was one of the pioneers that actually established it as a thing like three decades, three plus decades ago.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um but 2020 is when I joined that institute's academy and uh took those steps and then really started doing this professionally.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_06: Um there's lots of offshoots for that, but that's kind of the brief overview.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_06: And my main focus now is helping people heal through unresolved trauma in a holistic way.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_06: So even though the the focus is primarily on the mental emotional side of things, um, it's holistic, so it's inclusive of um physiology, nervous system, um, as well as the mental emotional side and just life structure in general.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_06: And we'll probably get to stuff like that, but that's a brief overview.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: So when you said um you felt shifting um 2020, obviously we all know that that was when the world was upside down with the pandemic.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_05: What call did you have to make you actually take the step?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_05: Because we know that there's a lot of people in the world who have all the ideas and never step into what they feel moved to do.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um, what happened in you for you to know that this is a service?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_05: You need to be the person who's actually bringing to the world?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_06: The trauma healing process itself, in terms of stage, in terms of phases and stages, is very much reflective of the hero's journey that Joseph Campbell defined in his book uh The Hero with a Thousand Faces.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but the third part of the hero's journey is the road back.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_06: So the second part is the road of trial.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_06: So that's when you're dealing with it, that's when you're doing the stuff and you're in the muck of it.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_06: First phase is when you know that you need to change something and you're just stepping into this new world.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_06: That critical mass is once you've come through enough of it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_06: Now, again, it's never like fully completely done, but it's kind of like the this healing work is kind of like learning how to clean a house.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_06: There's a big difference between cleaning it and main maintaining a clean home.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_06: So the roadback is kind of like when you're in that, okay, I know how to keep a clean house.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_06: The house is clean, I'm maintaining it now.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_06: But now I know how to.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_06: It's a natural energetic um progression to feel like you want to share that with other people.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_06: Because if you don't, energetically you'll still feel like there's you'll you still won't feel fully satiated in terms of just how at peace you are, because there's wisdom in you that is completely unique that only you can bring into the world.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_06: And on a soul level, that's what we're here to do.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_06: And so I had because that this kind of journey started for me when I was 14 when I um kind of became aware that there was stuff I needed to address.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, between and um I was born in '93.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_06: So there was a lot of time between 14 and that moment in 2020.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_06: And so from 14 till that point, it was a daily thing.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_06: Like it was not like it was not a trivial dabbling.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_06: Like I needed to know what was going on and why the home environment was the way that it was.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_06: What and um just why am I dealing with all of this stuff?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_06: And so working through lots of that um over subsequent years, and then hitting certain real tangible points in my own journey where I was like, okay, that bit's done now, and that's a genuine shift.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_06: I kind of got to that point where I felt like I had worked through enough where naturally it was like, okay, I feel like I want to help people with this now.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_05: So, what was you doing exactly?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like, if you could if someone was to ask, because say somebody wanted to um copy whatever it was you were doing in that window before you went and got that professional training, what did that look like?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_05: Because you said you were doing it daily.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_06: The foundational driver was why is like what is going on and what caused that, and then you just start trying, you just start sitting with the the challenge.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_06: And obviously, the um uh like being a 93 baby, like when I was 14, there was still like internet available, and um not to say that people couldn't get answers before, but I still had a certain level of access as a result of that that I could go on to look and look for podcasts and they would talk about a certain book, and then you can buy the book and etc.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_06: So if I if I was dealing with something, I would just try and find out what was going on and like and literally just type in questions like why is this, why does this happen?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_06: Particular thing.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_06: And I also I was journaling a lot.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and that's a good one.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_06: Um I've all and I've also got that kind of writer archetype too.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_06: So like uh language is probably one of my first loves.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um like just creative writing and writing fiction, and I've written fiction books for my own enjoyment and stuff.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_06: So I spent a lot of time just really just practicing language, yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_06: And language primarily, especially when it comes to healing trauma, the tool that we use primarily is a linguistic one.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_06: There will be physiological tools, but the but the instruction of how to use them in um sort of holistic harmony with the intangible aspects requires um sort of linguistic governance as well.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_06: And then dealing with the intangible aspects of unresolved trauma, essentially, which essentially is a form of memory, um, as Dr.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_06: Keith Whitt says, the kind of rewiring of that requires a linguistic tool.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_06: So instead of language just being how we kind of use it, language becomes a specific tool using certain words in certain ways.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_06: Language kind of we see it as um words kind of becoming levers that are attached to someone's energy.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_06: So human energy doesn't change, but the sort of order of levers does depending on the language that's being spoken and the sort of grammar rules that govern that.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but then when you see it that way and you kind of start to understand that that whole system is kind of set up in a certain way, you can see what levers are kind of out of whack, and you can use language with someone and show them how to use language in a certain way to actually rewire the thing that's got them caught in that spiral.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_06: And so there's a certain uh magic to it, and going through this process of asking why and what caused that, you see how so much of it is rooted in language being a certain way, because our energy is what's signal is uh what's signified, and a word is a signifier.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_06: So we're you so we see how we can use these signifiers to move and influence something that's signified.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_06: And the more that I started to understand that, the more things started to click into place.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_06: Again, I'm being there's there's so many specifics I could talk about in terms of like specific issues, but I'm being somewhat general at the moment, um, just to kind of give more of a sort of holistic bird's eye view for people, as opposed to zeroing in too specifically just now.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_06: But that's primarily what I was doing.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_06: I was asking myself, why is this particular thing here?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_06: Why am I dealing with that?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_06: And what caused that?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_06: And what causes that in a general sense?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_06: And the more I kind of dove into that, the more I started to feel like I was observing what was going on as opposed to feeling like I was in what was going on.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_05: And kind of consumed by it.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so the way that I kind of describe it, simple analogy, it's like being able to watch the washing machine of your emotions spin as opposed to being spun in the washing machine.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_06: Um, kind of a simple analogy.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_06: Makes me giggle a little bit, although that wouldn't be quite that fun to be in there, but uh it illustrates the point quite well.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and then the more I kind of and then the more you go into that, the faster you can understand what's going on.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_06: And you can control it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_06: And the faster you can understand what's going on, the the less disturbing it becomes.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_06: Because trauma essentially is uh a form of memory that one has not been able to create a comprehensible narrative throughout.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_06: Again, there's physiological embodiment of a certain thing, too.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_06: So there's like a chemical reflection that can live in the tissues as well.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: But the root part of the thing itself is essentially a painful memory that's unresolved, and the degree to which one has not made a coherent narrative through it is the degree to which it remains unresolved.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_05: So when you were working through this, as you say, in your more formative years, you you said you were still within the environment that was, I guess, a challenging environment, yeah, but still doing the starts of this work.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: How was that for you?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_05: Because you're still in the environment.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_05: So therefore you're now you're now changing, but you're within the environment.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_05: So you're gonna have to create a shift.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, because you were a teenager, child slash teenager, I can imagine there was those caregivers in the house.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_05: How did they respond to the fact that you're changing because you're gonna, if there's um there's a culture in the household, yeah, and you're changing, so you're gonna shift that culture automatically.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, how was that response for you well for everywhere?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_06: It wasn't received well.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's why I ask us.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_06: How things are now, because the the challenging dynamic was related to my parents.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, myself and my parents, my parents with each other.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_06: But also, and now we this is the jet where we're getting into the generational aspect, my parents with their parents.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_06: My parents didn't get what they needed.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_06: And so, anyway, um, but how things are now, that relationship is healthy.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_06: Um my parents have actually been doing coaching with one of my teachers at the institute for many years now.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_06: Um, there were challenges with alcohol on my dad's side, but he's been uh sober for many years now.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_06: The dime out we've consciously um collectively talked about the suboptimal patterns that we don't know how far back they go.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, but they've completely stopped now.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_06: We've said sorry to each other, we've cried with each other, we've not blamed each other, we've we've allowed space to work through things with each other.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_06: So uh I wanted to make sure that I state that as well because I'm um uh even though it's help it's help helpful to talk about how things were, that's not how things are now.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_06: And so I don't I'm not speaking about how things were in any like I'm wagging my finger or holding on to anything.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_06: But uh yeah, I'm I'm I'm sure that comes across, but like it's important to state if people are still not in the place where they feel like they can do that either, because um that's also part of the healing process as well, being able to unburden yourself from the from the grudges and resentment of people that may have contributed to what you're dealing with, right?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_06: Where even when a part of you feels like it's not fair.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_06: But as the saying goes, holding a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_06: This is it.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_06: It it doesn't work.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't work at all.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um but the in terms of the environment, the way that it the way that it was, it was just very, very chaotic.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_06: But again, the the the the core of the core of them is love.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_06: They're deeply, deeply loving and good people.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_06: There's a big difference between people like that caught in a bad pattern and people that are genuinely evil.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_06: And that's when we're dealing with, say, like cluster B personality disorder stuff like sociopathy, um, combined with narcissism and Machiavellianism and uh borderline traits and like really entrenched stuff that's slightly different.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but that's not the environment I was in, but it was still very chaotic and combustible and um stuff like that.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_06: But it was uh deeply loving, caring, one wonderful people caught in suboptimal patterns that what uh had kind of been passed on, but I was still like there was still I was still dealing with a lot of that.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_06: And at 14, um, that was kind of like the moment where I I just kind of became aware of myself.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_06: And uh part of that was neurobiological.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_06: Like there's a certain point as the brain matures where uh a young person is able to have uh somewhat of an existential thought.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_06: They're aware of themselves being here, but they're also aware that other people are here and they're separate and other people are viewing them, but they don't know how other people are viewing them, right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_06: And they know how they feel, but they and they know how they feel in relation to something else, yeah, and now they're questioning things.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_06: Whereas like a seven-year-old's not going to have that kind of thought because their brain can't yet.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they're not there yet.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so but so there was that, and that that kind of hit when I was 14.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe for someone else it was 13, it would be 13, but for me it was 14.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_06: I remember it so clearly.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's like I got hit with a lightning bolt, and I was like, oh my goodness, okay, I'm here.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_06: But I oh crap, I do not feel the way that I want to feel.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_05: Right, okay.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, but I didn't know what was going on, and then very quickly after that, I felt this other feeling there, this kind of like deeper sort of presence.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_06: In hindsight now, um, that was like that was the sort of deep wise self, my soul, soulful aspect of myself coming online too.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, because it it was it was a it was a guiding force as well.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_06: It's part of your intuition, yeah, but I didn't know what it was at the time, but that force was always kind of pointed me in certain directions to um look at this, go down that route, and stay away from that, this, that, etc.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_06: And so at that time, I started to see the environment.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_06: I was like, I feel like I kind of have an idea of what's messed up here, and no one's talking about it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_06: Wait, wait, wait, and like like hang on, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_06: Am I am I crazy or is this going on?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_06: And everyone's acting like it's not, right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_06: But because I was young as well, and then like when I was sort of 15, 16, I started to kind of bring it up and like the energy feels like completely off in here, and all the rest, and then kind of the response was being looked at like literally like I had three heads.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_06: And yeah, it wasn't received very well.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_06: But because I was also young and seeing older people, I was also thinking, uh, do they actually have they actually know?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_06: Do I not know?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_06: I feel like I know, but I'm not sure because they're older and they're responding in this way.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_06: Am I actually crazy?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so I like what I feel like this is right.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not getting the confirmation at all that that is the case, but this feels right, but they're not confirming it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, who's right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_06: And so I made uh so I spent many years just kind of questioning my sanity for a long time, just because I felt like I had these kinds of intuitions of I'm I feel like I know what's going on here.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like it's it doesn't seem normal to be yelling at each other like that or yelling at me for that, for this, blood the like the up, down, left, right, and sideways, uh, but it just wasn't penetrating.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_05: And so did you have something to just have an external environment that you could go to as in because I know that you just said it's it's generational things that have been passed down through your parents, and thankfully it's I guess stuck to yourself.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_06: And my sister, yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_05: And your and your sister.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_05: Did you have an alternative environment to go to?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: Did you have even though you mentioned the grandparents, but could you go to these other houses?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_05: Well, so this parents' parents?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_06: So well uh when I was 16.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I mean I started martial arts when I was 15, but when I was 16, I started tie boxing and met my tie boxing coach.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_06: So he so at that time I'd just be at class all the time.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_06: And he kind of was like uh that kind of male figure that I needed at the time.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_06: And again, but again, that's not uh any kind of denigration, like the what my parents were dealing with at the time, for example, uh like the the house, the like the mortgage raising two kids, my dad building his business from from scratch, etc.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_06: Like the amount, just the general sort of life weight that they were dealing with, and me uh fast forward years of this work being able to have compassion and say if I was in the same situation at that same age, could I have done better?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_06: I have no idea.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_06: So um but at that time especially for a teenage boy when you're dealing with that and you just also are trying to learn how to manage just teenage testosterone levels.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_06: Um having an outlet like that when you just you had someone who was in their late 40s already had um grown up in a similar environment just understood you and went and just I felt like I was really understood and just me being me was um seen and appreciated.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_06: That was the place so it was class for me and it was quite close as well.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_06: So um uh it wasn't far from it wasn't far from the house and um again it's not like this was a like the it was just all the time at the house.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_06: Like there were periods where it was wonderful and that also was even more confusing that kind of dichotomy between the two and like the moments when I was injured of which there were many when I was young which wasn't on purpose it was just because I was a bit of a sort of movement lunatic and as most young um energetic teenage boys are um like if I got really injured and a couple of times like I was in hospital all of the BS went away and I was like oh there are my parents but then like then it would kind of trickle back in like once the healing like process was done.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_06: But the thing was like it it again in hindsight that was the core of them.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_06: But there was so much confusion because I just did not understand why this was here or how I could deal with what I was feeling and the uh what how the uh generational aspect fits in and there was just so much I didn't know and that confusion of not knowing was that's just so uh heavy for anybody like if you at least know genuinely what's going on and what you're dealing with and how to deal with it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_06: That in itself is such a relief.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_06: A lot of the time we we just don't know though because um in terms of myself similarly I've I I've um had to work things out like yourself with myself as well growing up um because I don't really talk about my um as we said before the cameras got put on I don't talk my business yeah um but I can say there was definitely um challenging things in my in my in my upbringing and my and my home life so hence why I asked the question about if you had a um an alternative uh environment because for me my alternative environment was was my nan and granddad's house which was beautiful yeah and very much the balance that I needed when times were challenging yeah at home um where was I trying to land or did I was trying to well for me that alternative environment for me was just class it was I would I'd go train I'd just be training all the time like I'd um if I wasn't at class then I'd train by myself so like I and that was a really helpful outlet too because there was uh and at that time it was so important too because that the kind of like moral and also kind of holistic framework too that I have foundationally is because of my uh Thai boxing coach and like um Thailand and he's quite traditional as well like he was trained very traditional um just the physical aspect was just taken to an astronomic level as well but because it was very traditional he had also done lots of um uh meditation levels too because um Thailand being a Buddhist country and Thai boxing being a national sport uh Buddhist culture is interwoven with the sport right so I got exposed to a lot of um meditation early and being taught about my soul from him and like trusting your gut instinct and your sixth sense and um uh but also understanding that and how it and how to uh just channel a lot of the intensity of emotions but also the morals of how you don't channel it too.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_06: So I because of that get uh getting that quite early on like it um if it was sort of bubbling up in me my moral framework didn't let me act it out in a s in a suboptimal way like I and also like naturally I'm quite a uh empathetic person.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_06: Like I really do love people I really care about people and I really like any like all my fellow practitioners who have are across the globe um as even if we haven't met all fellow practitioners have the same kind of feeling between each other because we all have that sim same healer's heart like we don't want to hurt people so if I would just feel things boiling up like it's I would almost like prefer to just sort of be burnt up by it than try and burn someone else with it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_05: And I completely um get that because that's also the same reason why there's certain things I would love to express and talk about in my own life that I don't of the other people you know so it's I I totally get it you don't want to because as much as we could be comfortable in our own expression it also affects other people around us doesn't it so I even understand when you do the disclaimer every time you want to talk about your parents but the thing is like in terms like in terms of the context with uh uh at that time particularly because uh teenage boys just like on a physiological level just they're trying to learn how to manage testosterone as well if they don't have those sort of internal moral structures as well it's so much easier for it to just spiral out physically yes uh into and turn into violence yeah and a lot of the a lot of violence comes as a either trying to just discharge the intensity of the emotions that uh an energy that they're that's in them or or maybe in combination it's a result of um just a deep sense of frustration that comes from confusion of why is this going on and why do I feel this way and I don't know what to do or how to address it.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_06: And that's also one of the things about the like the work that I do and um coming through my journey which was like an 18 year process and then reflecting on it and being able to structure it in a way that people could then go through um and so they actually understand what's going on.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_06: Because when someone actually understands what's going on then a lot of that sort of frustration gets dialed down a bit and they actually feel capable of addressing.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_06: And part of the reason why so much of this is here is because we're just not taught it early on.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_06: Like with the yeah there's just so much that needs to be sort of optimized with the education system but that's a whole other that's a whole other conversation.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_06: But the main thing is is we're just not taught it.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_06: And so one of the things that I've made uh made it part of my mission to do is to is to share that understanding but share it in a way that doesn't get doesn't lose any of the density and the sort of energetic and spiritual nutrition but it's also conveyed in a way that's very simple to understand because when you do understand how things are how the system kind of works you can see essentially where the kind of energetic wires are out of place.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_06: So the the analogy of an electrician kind of works too where the electrician can look at a mess of wires and be like oh okay I see where I can see the issue.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_06: Because he knows where the or she knows where the wires are supposed to be essentially and so uh a lot with the unresolved trauma side of things if you under like when you kind of understand how things are kind of structured and how things develop as people speak and express themselves you the the clue is in is always in that you kind of see what's kind of out of whack and then you can help people and guide guide people using the tool of language to do that and uh using the right tool for the right thing.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_06: So for example if the root of what they're dealing with is in the intangible so it's not objectively measurable you have an intangible tool to address it.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_06: A lot of problems come when people are trying to address an intangible issue with an external tool.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_06: And so that's that's getting into more technicalities and stuff um but that's also what addictive behavior is trying to use an external modality to satiate an interior issue.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_06: But that's the thing when but if people don't know that then they just end up trying to use hammers with screws.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_05: You don't know what you don't know and if you're trying to use hammers with screws it will kind of work but not fully and not fully effective it just and then then you're on the hamster wheel and so I've got I've got some questions I'm gonna circle back in a moment um question that I'd like to make sure I stay on point with making sure I get into every episode because there's been a few that I've missed it out.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_06: So while it's here right now I'm gonna say it now okay on a lighter note what is something that you've done recently that you're really proud of um well there's a few one um coming on here because uh like I'm it's taking a bit of time to just feel comfortable just putting myself out there um because that's been something I've sort of shied away from for a long time.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah um the second thing is also I took the uh in April I moved uh moved in with a close friend of mine who's also one of my best friends but he's also a holistic practitioner like me we're part of the same institute nice he um we work in different in different ways but we both study the same stuff yeah but we're focused on sort of different things okay but we both include both things as well okay so he's focused on yeah he's got a clinic in Ealing in London he focuses on uh uh a lot of the musculoskeletal rehabilitation side of things okay but uh and I focus more on the mental emotional trauma side of things and working more online but because we both study the same stuff we include it right but we just know what we're focused on but that was very that was a very sudden move the other bits you'll figure out and will fall into place later just say yes and do it jump in terms like the in terms of the recent period of time those would be the those would be the two things okay um that I'm very proud of myself for doing just taking that leap and also like the the leap into the promotional side which relates to uh building like a good healthy uh business structure around what I do so and so it can reach more people because the like business means bridge.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_06: It's uh uh that's a good way of putting it oh I like that it's because it takes uh business as a word has kind of had it's been dragged through the mud a bit like there's a lot of barnacles on that it's got a lot of connotations around it uh mainly because it's kind of been used by people to exploit people but but essentially what it is for me because I had to redefine it for myself.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_06: I caught it immediately no that makes sense if it it's what connects people who have something to share with people who need it.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah and it's it's simply just the bridge and then you just need to learn how to build the bridge in a way that it's strong and stable and safe for the people to come across and uh get what they need and benefit from.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_06: But it's something I've uh resisted for a long time because uh my dad is very successful in business but to he did it in a way where his health really suffered from it physical and mental and so as a child my association with business was it leads to misery.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah so I resisted it for a very long time but it's uh and just assumed unconsciously that it would lead to that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_06: But that's not true.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_06: And uh there are multiple ways to build a bridge and you only need to focus on building the bridge in the way that you need for the people that you want to help and you don't need X number of people all the time coming over it.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_06: Like you can have an idea of how many people you want coming over the bridge to to you and you can decide how you want to let them know that you are building this bridge etc and so viewing it that way bridge building shall we say can be like a deeply spiritual and loving thing as well and and uh I'm very proud of myself for doing the work to address that because it's it's an important part and it's and it's primarily so this message can reach as many people as possible because it unresolved trauma essentially is I feel what is one of the biggest things in the way of people just feeling the way that they would like to and uh yeah there's there's there's more depth in terms of the definitions of what trauma is and the process itself and maybe we'll get more put maybe we'll go more turbo nerd and explain that later but um yeah that's that's the other thing that I'm very proud of just really healing that relationship with that particular word.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_05: With the word no it's brilliant because I've I've there's um there's there's a couple of people who um who are crazy successful within business um and I especially got familiar with them online um there's there's a married couple called Preston and Alexi.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_05: I listen to their stuff and they've got the bridge yeah there you go Preston and Alexi and they've got the bridge theory and they they do their bridge course things like that so I've heard of so I've heard of the bridge through that but in terms of what you've just written shout out to them press shout out to Preston and Alexi um lots of love thank you for the wisdom that's it thank you for the wisdom um but the fact that you've just relabeled the actual word business and and just put it in the space of it business itself is a bridge that's what it means.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_05: No it's amazing no it's all I literally think of I would think of them to with that but yeah anyway anyway I'm rambling so um I'm very proud of that just being able to because it was there for a long time and uh being able to find the joy in it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah and uh and also the way it's lighter and also you don't need like no bridge needs to be exactly the same.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah it doesn't need to look the same it doesn't need to sort of be designed exactly the same uh it just has to have that sort of same principle of solidity so people can get across it effectively but it doesn't need to be the same as the bridge that someone else made yeah yeah and so being able to and and you can get creative with it as well like being able to really go into that and heal that was very helpful as well because it was there for a while.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah um like everybody's got their thing like so for some people that bit comes very naturally but actually like forgiving someone is like nope I'm not doing that whereas like that was a bit easier for me than going in and dealing dealing with that everybody's got their stuff and I'm firmly one of the people that has their stuff too.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah I'm very I'm I'm very proud of that because it took a lot of work to be able to like excavate the root of that and address it and deal with deal with it and it's it's it's it's it's not easy um because I'd say I'm I'd say I'm a very forgiving person but it's like and and we continue to learn because I would say like I had a I wouldn't have labelled it trauma until when I've done the same thing as yourself and reflected on it and actually got to the other side of it and I was like oh that's actually a trauma and that was literally the top of this year um relating to the things we touched on earlier in this episode whereas I had to accompany a close family member to a funeral of their family on the other side and the person that I'm not fond of was at that funeral.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I sworn for years if I never saw that person ever again in life it would be great.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_05: However it works out that no I'm like to see this person.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_05: And prior to me going to that funeral I had my anxiety peaked because I was working out all the scenarios in my brain because I'm because I'm very much in a I just don't want to talk to this humor basically however the scene of who died have to talk to this person because of who died yeah um just to be respectful um all them things.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_05: So I knew I had to go to the funeral to support who I was supporting.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_05: However I'm also aware of myself and who I'm now going to have to encounter who I've not seen for years.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_05: And as I said my anxiety was peaking for literally weeks before I had to go to these funerals anyway and the person knows I don't like them.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh however I said to say I learned a lot about myself in that because even in that as kind of said in different ways earlier it was repackaging the person and seeing where they would have been years later.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_05: So okay so but to put an extra bit of context in because people would be like oh my gosh what did the person do I was did the person didn't do anything to me so I wasn't abused or anything like that but I was close enough proximity to witnessing other stuff.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_05: So that person then was able to kind of interact with me and made efforts to just be nice to me and accommodating to me and try to like buy me a drink and things like that in the afterbeat and things like that and I had to really reason with myself and be like leash a lot of time has passed this person is older I'm hoping this person's doing better in life and blah blah blah and furthermore the person that day what's a good word troubled was also with me in the place so I'm also reading how that person's reacting to that person.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_05: If that person's you know I can't be more bothered than the person you know what I mean so I was my sense it's like I was having to read all the things and I literally this different level of peace came over me in my space of acceptance that that person's okay technically I need to find my okay in this and we all continue to move forward type of thing.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_05: So I could say and then it was only when I kind of processed it and processed a new calm related to this person in real life that I was then able to find one of my cousins go and sit in his car with him and tell him everything how I was feeling that even in that moment I realized that for how many years there was actually a trauma there related to this person.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_06: Fascinating well part of the healing process itself one of those key moments is someone who an aspect of us has got that sort of be in their bonnet about um part of the process which is more for the the individual and not for the other person is unburdening oneself of any resentment towards them.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_06: But the holistic version of that is without compromising healthy boundaries.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_06: So it's a place of you can set a healthy boundary without hating someone at the same time so like with my parents one of the and this happened when I was about 19 was a real massive turning point.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_06: It was when and it was instigated by something I heard Paul Czech say on a podcast as well and it became very clear that oh they're not shouting at me they're shouting at their parents who didn't love them the way that they needed to but their mouth is pointed at me.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_06: And I can see the little the little girl and the little boy that I've also experienced and I can have love and compassion for them and just keep my heart open as well and so I'm not going to take this personally which is also one of the four agreements that Don Miguel Ruiz talks about in his book the former four agreements um but that point is an unburdening of oneself where I I just don't I don't resent you I'm not I'm not gonna compromise a healthy boundary because there's realities of this is not okay or like that's not healthy.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not going to allow you to do that.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_06: But I can set that healthy boundary I don't need to hate you to set that healthy boundary.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah and from that point as well that leads on to the ability to allow oneself to connect with the person that they are now.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_06: And um, and so the healing process itself, it's there's a there's responsibility on both sides.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_06: There's the people, so the individual that may have been a recipient of stuff, it's not the healing process is not I don't need to give them any grace, like like screw them, whatever.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_06: It's not that there's a lot of there's a weight of responsibility the one will realises they need to take in order to be able to mature their heart to a point where they can see the understand see the faults in the other person and their behavior, but they can also see their own and they can set those healthy boundaries, but they can just strip any kind of moral superiority where they're still setting a healthy boundary, like that's not okay, but they're they're not letting their ego go into this spiral of you did this, so you're less than me, and now they get now they're on the path of dehumanization, which which shuts down the heart and their humanness, and they're not actually healing now, they're now on the path of becoming um uh abusive themselves, and so that's why that moment is such an important one, and then from that, in terms of whole setting a healthy boundary, we come to um what Paul Chek describes as loving from a safe distance.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_06: So, what that means is what is the distance that allows you to keep your heart open with this person?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_06: Does it can you be in the same physical space with them?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_06: No, okay, can you have a phone call once a month?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_06: No, okay.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_06: Can you text once a month or email once a month and keep your heart open?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, yes.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_06: Or no, okay.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_06: Can you just not talk to them but then you keep your heart open in loving memory?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_06: Like I send them love and hope that they find the the tools to address this in themselves and they go through their own healing journey.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_06: But loving from a safe distance, and but that comes as a result of that moment where one is able to unburden themselves from the weight of carrying that kind of resentment around because it just destroys yourself because you can't, and also physiologically, you cannot rest when you're in that space.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_06: Because when you are holding that, your system still thinks you're fighting something, and when you're fighting something, chemically that will be reflected.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_06: So your your parasympathetic nervous system will shut down, so you're you're gonna lose tone in the vagus nerve, so your digestion is gonna be up upset, your adrenal glands because you're sympathetically dominant, you're gonna be releasing too much adrenaline and cortisol, they're gonna get fried, vitamin C is gonna get burnt up by the adrenal glands, you're gonna be all exhausted all the time.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and it just goes on and on and on.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_06: And so uh, but the what we can see is the cascade of that is be is rooted to something intangible.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_06: Not to say that it can't go the route can't be physiological as well, but what I'm saying is there's both intertwined with each other.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_06: So understanding how things are set up and you can see where the root is, you understand what thing needs to kind of be addressed first, and then you can also address the other things, but because you know the kind of holistic domino line, you know uh how what order to do things in so they don't go backwards.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_06: Um again, I feel like I'm talking in kind of random directions, but uh there's just yeah.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_05: No, but my my head's all over the place because I've got so many things that I want it, no, because I can just think of so many people who have got just different traumas and it and it presents itself in so many different ways, which then makes it difficult for everybody else who needs to interact with them in different ways.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: So, for example, the person that I was just speaking of, um, who was in the same room with me with the person who troubled them, um, that person's response to what had happened is I I call that person the the ostrich respectfully because that person has buried their head in the ground and that's it.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_05: We've moved on with life with the head still buried in the ground, so just everything that's actually really happening in life is not happening because the head's buried, so that then has an effect on everybody else around because we're like, oh my god, yeah, that's called bypassing, literally, but at the same time, like I don't say that judgmentally.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_05: No, it's not it's it's it's just challenging for the rest of us who have to interact with the person, yeah.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_06: Because all of uh any response essentially is the the the psyche's best attempt, the the individual psyche's best attempt to heal the issue.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's just some a lot often it's just not the optimal way to do it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_06: But at the same time, the grace is that there is a there is an attempt there to address this, but it's just not the right way to do it.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but one of the things with trauma essentially being a form of memory that's unresolved and still charged, the only way it can't just be let go.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_06: Before it's able to be let go of, it needs to be brought in consciously with love and understood to the degree that it's now not charged.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_06: Again, I'm skipping over a lot of details, but it had before it can be let go of, it has to be brought in and understood and felt enough to the point where it's not it the psyche doesn't feel it's threatening anymore.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_05: I think that person, I think respectfully, I think that person has just given up because we've tried so many times to Well, this is the thing, like no one can make someone do this.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_05: This this is it, and that I think they've they've someone's either ready or they're not.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they've lived the ostrich life for so long.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_06: I think that's but the compassion is like, and especially like for this work too, like the and that's why, like, say, podcasts and uh YouTube channels and a lot of the free stuff is very, very help important, is so that people still have access to a lot of the knowledge and they can still start doing stuff, even if um their psyche isn't yet ready to fully jump in to say a structured program, like that just like the hero's journey.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_06: Step one is the call to adventure.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, I need to address stuff, I need to deal with something.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_06: Step two is the refusal of the call, where it's like that's unfamiliar, so screw that.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not doing that.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and uh a lot of people, especially like because the ego feels like dealing with this stuff is going to be very, very painful.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_06: A lot of the times they're caught in that oscillation.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_06: I need to deal with it, but I'm just scared to.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_06: And so a lot of times, if they've got enough access to just like someone's put that information out there in podcasts or videos on YouTube, and they can just sort of see it from afar after enough of that where they're not being forced, they can kind of hit a critical mass by themselves and they can overcome the sort of resistance because they maybe feel comfortable enough with the particular individual whose channel they connect with, etc.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_06: And they've listened enough and they're like, Okay, I I feel understood by this person, okay.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_06: I need to address this, it's gonna be scary, but okay, I can I can invest in a program now.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and so again, it's it's not a judgment, people are ready when they're ready, and that's okay.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like it again, it's all part of the whole holistic picture as well, and it's not for us to try and uh force them to go faster, even though it's hard if we deeply love the people that are dealing going through it.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_06: That's part of the frustration because we care about them so much, yeah, and we and it's very painful for us to feel empathetically what we can see they're going through, and so we want to help, and but at the same time, like it's it's their journey as well, as one of my teachers told me, like uh like we have to let people have their journey too.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_06: And so um it doesn't mean it it doesn't mean we don't show up, it just means that we keep our heart open.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_06: It's like we're not trying to force them, we don't try and give if it's not reciprocated or wanted.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_06: We're here if they're ready.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_06: And so some people uh and people will hit that at different times, and maybe they won't, and that's all that's also their human right to choose to do that or not.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, um, we might intervene more or less depending on what's going on and the intensity of the situation, but in general, it's still with whatever the outcome, they're still allowed to have their journey.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_05: Would you mind breaking down?
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_05: Because you've obviously touched on several times within this, that how everything's interconnected.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, it'd be great for you to break that down for everyone because you can imagine some people haven't even realized uh I've already kind of explained a bit of a definition of what trauma is already, but I'll fully flesh it out now.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_06: So to me and what I came to understand, and um this is also a really important part of phase one because uh the structure of the three phases, as I've understood it, is uh is related around uh what Ken Wilbur describes as the sort of five ups.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Ken Wilbur is the founder of uh integral theory, which is a meta-theory that's uh a structure that allows you to sort of hold space for everything.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but his sort of five ups, which he details in his book, wonderful book, Finding Radical Wholeness, is uh waking up, growing up, cleaning up, opening up, and showing up.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_06: And I'll explain what those are as I go through the phases.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_06: So phase one of the trauma healing process, as I've structured it, is waking up.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_06: And what does that mean?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_06: That means waking up to the truth of who we are, and the truth of who we are is we're not what happened to us.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_06: So when we understand that the truth of who we are, is we are a unique soul here.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_06: And as Carl Jung, the uh pioneering psychotherapist and founder of Depth Psychology from the 20th century, one of uh Freud's close students, uh among others, um, utter genius.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_06: His definition of a soul is each person's individual and individuated aspect of God.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_06: So God, the Tao, source, unconditional love, Yahweh, Brahma, whatever you want to talk about, whatever uh name you want to give it, is the oneness from which everything stems from.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so it's the peak that all the different religious paths connect to at the top of the mountain, that is religion in general, as religion being understood from a more holistic perspective.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_06: And soul standing as an acronym for source of unconditional love, which was not my acronym.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_06: I believe it's the coach Alexis Arden who said that.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_06: Somewhat of an obscure podcast, but when I heard it, I was like, I need to remember that.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_06: So credit to her.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_06: That is the truth of who we are.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_06: So when we understand that, what we understand trauma to be is it's not the definition of who we are, it's the embodied residue on the outside of the truth of who we are.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_06: So if you imagine this analogy of you have a beautiful statue, like for some people, they imagine Michelangelo's David or another statue from the Renaissance that's standing in Italy or etc.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_06: Just a beautiful statue, just imagine one, and now you imagine you start covering it in mud, right?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_06: Just keep covering it, even to the point where you can't see any of that statue anymore.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_06: And then I ask the question does it stop being a beautiful statue, even though it's covered in mud?
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_06: No, no, that's the truth of trauma.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, it's we still gotta clean it, yes, and not every and certain traumas are gonna clean off a bit more like glue than just basic mud or healthy compost.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_06: So there's some nuance there.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_06: That's phase two, that's the cleaning bit.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_06: But when we understand that, that in itself frees the ego from feeling constricted, because the ego only ever feels constricted, even to the point where it feels like the only way that it can be free is to depart Earth by its own hand, is if it identifies itself with the residue on the outside of the truth of who we are.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_06: And so linguistically, what we hear people say in that is I am such and such, as opposed to this is present.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_06: I am depressed, I am anxious, I am broken, I am unlovable, I am worthless, as opposed to that feeling is present, right?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_06: But it's not who I am, right?
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_06: Linguistically, it's different, and how the like the the the the feeling of those two sentences is very different, yes.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_06: And so the other thing as well is when the e when and this is also part of the individuation process that Carl Jung talks about, so the individual the individuation process is the ego becoming aware that the presence of the soul is all is there also.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_06: And so Edward Edinger, uh in in his book uh ego and archetype, described it as like there are three images.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_06: Like the first image is like a circle within a circle, and another one is there's a the kind of overlapping circles, and then the third one is when there's a circle on top of another one.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_06: So the the circle within the circle is the first bit, like inflation.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_06: The ego thinks it's the only aspect that exists, then life goes whack, and some something happens, then you get dark knight of the soul.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_06: Who am I, what's going on, why?
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_06: Now you're getting a bit of this peeling, you're looking for it makes no logical sense.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_06: So now you're having an existential existential crisis.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_06: If you connect to that part of yourself, and trauma is very much like this, um, and you anchor into that soulful truth of you, then you get an establishment of what uh the what Jung described the ego self-axis.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_06: You can use the word soul as well.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_06: He sometimes used the word self for soul back then.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_06: But what that means is the ego becomes aware that the the truth of who we are is that soul, source of unconditional love.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_06: And in relation in relation to trauma, why is that so important?
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_06: Because if that is the truth of me, and soul means source of unconditional love, if that if love is the truth of me, how have I how how can I ever not be without love?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_06: Right, I can't be.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_06: It can only be covered, and I can only have this sort of um manufactured amnesia to that truth.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_06: And that also gives the ego clear permission to just start feeling the way that it wants to feel right away because that's the truth of who we are.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I don't need to get to here to start feeling that way already.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I still gotta clean this stuff off.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_06: But if I am love, love being synonymous with hope, hope can't go anywhere.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_06: So it's I'll never not be without hope or love.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_06: And with those two things, I can never not be without joy.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_06: So I can't there's no reason for me to not smile right now, right?
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_06: And the other thing is source of unconditional love.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_06: It's like a dam opening, and that river starts to flow again, crystal and clear, whereas the waters were stagnant before.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_06: And so when the ego, and this is a felt experience, this is not intellectual.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_06: Every cell in someone's body feels this.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and Jung described this in the Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious, I think it's page 123, where he talked, he described it as when the bud unfolds and the one becomes two, and that, as Ken Wilbur says, that toothpaste is not getting back in that tube.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_06: It will it will forever change you.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and for the better.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_06: And no matter how much residues on the outside of you, no matter how much abuse there was, no matter how much this, that, up, no matter how much you think you're unlovable and broken, and it's all screwed and it's it's impossible.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_06: Because you are anchored to that truth of who you are, that soul, that source of unconditional love, where a unique and individuated aspect of source is you, there is no limit to how much love can flow through you because love has an infinite capacity to expand.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_06: And because you're now aware of addressing trauma and residue, that also by default means that you're going to be aware to not add to it.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_06: So, what that also means is the residue itself technically has a finite amount.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_06: But because you know that love has an infinite capacity to expand, the ego relaxes because it also knows it's inevitable that the amount of love in you is inevitably going to be more than the amount of residue you have to actually clean right now.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_06: And as Paul Czech says, the solution to pollution is dilution.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_06: So love will just continually flow through you and dilute the amount of trauma and which is residue that's actually there and essentially wash it away.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_06: And so it's also not going to self-sab the ego's not going to self-sabotage now because it's not because it's not identified with the residue on the outside of who you are, it's not afraid of it washing away because its identity is not going to get washed away either.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_06: If someone's a if someone's like, I am this, I am that, it's miserable, but it's familiar, and I have an identity.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_06: If I get rid of it, then I'm gonna disappear.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_06: Well, now you get a self-sabotage cycle.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I was about literally about to touch on because I was like, Yeah, I know somebody who's actually their whole identity now is built, didn't not that same person I spoke of before, a different one.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_05: Their whole identity is built around the the trauma, what the place that the trauma has put them.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_06: And so explained it.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_06: So that's the first half of the definition.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_06: So trauma is an acronym to reject an unpleasant memory assertively.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_06: It means that the unpleasant memory is being held away, so it's not being brought into the light of consciousness to be understood, so a comprehensible um narrative can be woven through it, and that's really important because the degree to which one can't hasn't done that is the degree to which the memory stays charged.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_06: And again, I don't say that judgmentally, because sometimes the memory, like the the residue gets put on there at an age before someone even has a mature prefrontal cortex, which happens at about 25.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_06: So when someone has that, they neurobiologically have the capacity to actually linguistically address this stuff.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_06: But if all of this is happening before the age of 10, then their psyche doesn't even have the neurobiological capacity to even be able to do that.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_06: So psychically, they have to hold it away.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_06: And so there's no other way for it to manifest except be pushed into the unconscious, right?
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_06: And and so and until that point later in life, um, it has to just stay there.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, the other point about me sharing this stuff is like some people they don't even know to look for the statue beneath the residue.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_06: Because um, like I was talking about when I was 14 and had that moment of, oh, I'm here and I oh this is who I am.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_06: Sometimes when people have that and they look in the mirror for the first time, all they see is residue.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so they don't know to look for what's beneath it, right?
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_06: And then some and then they come along and someone like me and say, I'm this, I'm that, and blah blah blah.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm and I'm like, I understand, I felt that too, but it's not true.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_06: And here's why.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and like I've got the sort of energetic like hose pipe, and I'm just like, you see, there's that?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_06: They're looking at the hands, like, oh, it's a bit glowy under there.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_06: It's like, yeah, that that's actually what's there.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but in terms of the memory, the analogy that I use there, uh, in terms of why it's important to have a comprehensible narrative throughout what happened, like fully understanding why.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_06: The analogy I use there is if you have a child and they burn their finger for the first time when they're cooking, they can react in a really extreme way.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_06: If it's the first time, they don't know what's going on, they think their finger's gonna fall off, they think they're gonna die, they're crying, they're up, down, left, right, and sideways.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_06: They might as well have got shot in terms of the reaction.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and then they tell their parent what's going on, and then their parents like, oh, you burnt your finger.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, here's what we're gonna do.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_06: We're gonna run it under some cold water, I'll give you a cuddle, I'll kiss it better, we'll put some cream on it.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_06: Don't touch that because it gets really hot.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_06: Now you know.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_06: But I promise your finger won't fall off, and I promise you won't die.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_06: You sure?
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, I'm sure.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_06: If the parent burns their finger in exactly the same way, they're not going to have the same reaction.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_06: Why?
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_06: The reason that for that is they have such a distance of understanding of what happened, of what contributed to it, what the implications are physiologically, what the aftermath is.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_06: They understand all of that and they've fully accepted it.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_06: That principle applies to everything, but at the Same time, it's not to trivialize how some things are way more intense than others.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm not saying this is just get over it, not at all, in any way, shape, or form.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not saying just get over it.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_06: Sometimes it's very important to actually be able to uh allow oneself to feel as much of the emotion as they need to, not more, not less.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_06: Feel it enough, now it's time to let it go.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_06: No sooner, no longer.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_06: That's the key thing.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_06: That is all part of that waking up phase.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_06: Waking up to the truth of what's going on so that one can actually free themselves energetically to actually be able to let this stuff go.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_06: And then phase two is about growing up and cleaning up.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_06: Growing up relates to your stage of consciousness.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_06: So we can think about this as like your vantage point.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_06: Like the higher up in a tower you are, the more of like the landscape you can see.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_06: You can see a bit further.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_06: And just how Einstein said you can't solve a problem with the same thinking that created it, you can't heal trauma from the same stage of consciousness that you were at when you experienced it.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_06: You need to be able to, to be able to understand it, you need to be at a higher level.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_06: It's not it doesn't deny the previous levels, as Ken Wilbur says, you transcend but include, but you need to understand it from a higher level.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_06: For example, if someone dies, am I just in the mortality of this human existence?
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_06: They're gone forever.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_06: A higher level, did this particular soul choose to go at this particular time?
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_06: And again, that's a simple that's one example.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_06: Or this person abused me and it was awful.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_06: And it they like it was a family member, and the abuse was sexual, and it it ruined me for such a long time.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_06: Higher stage.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_06: It's not to compromise a boundary, but I understand what created that person.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_06: And this is what I learned from it.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_06: And these are the boundaries that I'm now setting.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_06: It's not that I wish for it, but I I now understand how I'm going to alchemize this.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_06: Alchemy, the process of turning lead into gold.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_06: And that's also relates to the Japanese principle of Kintsugi, which is the art of putting smash pottery back together with seams of gold.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_06: No shatter pattern is the same.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_06: The uniqueness of the shatter pattern, once it's put back together with the seams of gold, is what contributes to it being seen as more beautiful.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_06: So growing up in phase two is about stage.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_06: So that's be and that relates also, that links back to also being able to let the memory go because you understand it so deeply.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_06: Like the mother compared to the child and burning their finger.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_06: The mother's at a higher stage of consciousness and understanding.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_06: That's what growing up is about.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_06: Cleaning up, that's at that's like the energetic version of getting the hose pipe and cleaning all the mud off.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_06: That's the messy bit.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_06: And that's also where the rubber meets the road.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_06: Because phase two is also about anchoring in the understanding that we have as new embodied habits.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_06: So that what we have worked through mentally and emotionally is also embodied on a nervous system and cellular level.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_06: So physiologically, we don't feel like we're living in the past still.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_06: And because a thought can move faster than matter, yeah, this takes repetitions and time.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_06: Just how, like, if I if someone uses their knife and fork in a certain way, and I said switch it and be make it feel normal.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_06: That only that takes time.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_06: That's not right away.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_06: And so what we're um what people will feel in this phase is a lot of things in the day-to-day will be changing because uh for energy to flow through someone optimally and unobstructed, we need self-perception, self-articulation, and daily actions to be aligned.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_06: Self-perception, who am I?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_06: Self-articulation, how we speak about ourselves, daily actions, what we do.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_06: But we can have that alignment of the three at any stage of consciousness, which is also where you can have arseholes that seem to be flowing through life quite well.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um but this in this context, the self-perception heals like I'm not what happened to me.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_06: But now, self-articulation, oh, I'm not what happened to me.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_06: Truth of me is I'm love.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, okay.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_06: What does that mean?
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_06: And then you go about your day and someone does it, oh I'm I'm a piece of shit, or this or that.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_06: It's like, hang on, that's not how someone who's love would talk about talk to themselves.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, what happened there?
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, that's a habit.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe okay, I need to change that.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_06: Why did I do that?
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_06: And also, like, okay, this person texted me, they want to go out.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_06: I know they don't actually care about me.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_06: Why am I feeling like I want to say yes?
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, oh god.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_05: So it's basically basically taking stuck, you're just more present in all the things you do and the processing that you do.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_06: The presence is the presence leads to the awareness, and you can then contrast what you're currently doing and seeing if it aligns with your self-perception.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_06: For example, some people may realize after they go through this process, they need to leave a relationship.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_06: Because that person doesn't actually care about me.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_06: Or I've been eating all of this kind of food and it's not actually very good for me.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's filled with all of these toxins, and it's not actually my body doesn't feel very good.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe I should actually start going to the gym because I love my body now, or actually I don't like the gym, but I should move.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_06: I love walking in nature.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_06: I want to go hiking all the time.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_06: And actually, I actually want to go to bed a bit earlier because I care about my body.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_06: And I haven't been doing that.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_06: Why was I doing it?
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_06: All of the daily habits basically it a whole inventory needs to be taken.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_06: Do all of these things need to be shifted and evolved now?
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_06: And then there needs to be enough repetitions and to the point where they then become genuinely embodied to reprogram themselves.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we need both, it's not one or the other.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_06: And what you'll get is some people think saying that the only way to address trauma is through breath work.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_06: The only way to address trauma is through therapy.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_06: If you just go straight to the breath work, it will keep going back, or anything physiological, it will keep going backwards because you haven't addressed the root, because the the psyche controls is the governing system over everything else.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_06: Um, as Polchek describes in his high totem pole model, which is the hierarchy of order systems.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_06: So the psyche's at the top because someone can choose to depart Earth by their own hand, which overrides all systems.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_06: Psyche's at the top, then you have um breathing next, uh, because we can only go like three minutes without oxygen, for example.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and then you've got like then you've got the other systems like mastication, eyes, auditory, upper cervical, then you've got viscera and like the slave joints.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_06: This is uh the the the point is a lot of trauma typically is rooted in the psyche, right?
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_06: So that has to be addressed as well for it to not go backwards.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_06: If you just do this uh mental emotional stuff and you don't do, say, the breath work and the physiological embodiment stuff afterwards, you'll feel like you've addressed it, but your body will still feel like crap and it because your nervous system is still back there because as they say, the body keeps the score, doesn't it?
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but that's best of that's Bessel Vandercock's um book and and work, which is uh very, very important.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_06: It's both together, right?
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but what we what and there will be overlaps, but typically we'll start with the waking up, yeah, and then go into the growing up and cleaning up.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_06: Growing up is a kind of intangible as well, but we need to have both.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_06: And there will be periods where I say, okay, I need to go back and do that module for a bit, and generally we'll be in more of one phase than the other, but there will always be overlaps, so we're it's allowed to be a bit messy like that, and like there's nothing wrong with that.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_06: Life is like that, that's not and and that takes time.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_06: It takes a phase two is where the rubber hits the road, it's a long period of time, and there's also intangible aspects in that too, with cleaning up.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_06: Cleaning up is all about digging into the shadow, really digging up the muck of the resentment and all the rest of it.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_06: So there's intangible tools, extensive intangible tools, um uh which are primarily linguistic based, in addition to the um nervous system and physiological, and then there's also how to detoxify organs because organs store emotions that are unresolved too.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_06: So, for example, like the liver stores anger.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_06: So uh as one is is releasing anger, helping to detoxify the liver can help that clear out the nervous system as well.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_06: And there's all these interrelationships between the nervous system and organ function and organ health and uh all of that.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_06: And that and pull checks for Doctor System is integrated with all of this as well.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, Dr.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_06: Diet, Dr.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_06: Quiet, Dr.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_06: Movement, Dr.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_06: Happiness, which relates to like your dream as well, uh, which is part of phase one, which anchors the whole process.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_06: And that also links the phase three, which I'll get onto and explain.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_06: Now, like phase three is uh opening up and showing up.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_06: So phase three is kind of like that road back, like we talked about with the hero's journey.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_06: So uh phase one is kind of like phase one, you're stepping into this new world and you're realizing the truth of who you are.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_06: You step, you cross the threshold.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_06: Phase two, uh growing and cleaning up, that's the road of trials.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_06: That's phase two of the hero's journey.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_06: That's the bit where it's like, oh boy, here we go.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_06: Um, however hard it is, I'll deal with.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not trying to make it harder, but if it's really, really hard, I that's okay.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and then you get through and you seize the reward and you because you've got through it, and now phase three is the road back.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_06: It's about how uh and uh phase three is about how you bring your new healed self to the world and how you integrate your new healed self into the world because the world will feel new because you are now viewing it through new eyes, right?
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_06: And that is all about uh the opening up aspect is opening up to your multiple intelligences.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_06: So we all have multiple intelligences.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_06: Uh for some people, they're a bit more mathematical, other people a bit more uh interpersonal, musical, uh kinesthetic, um, and people have combinations as well.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_06: Social, they can be very artistic and scientific and take your pick, yeah, and whatever combination.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_06: But that will kind of influence, that will kind of be the the meet the medium or combination of mediums through which you want to uh channel the messages and the let of the lessons that you've learned.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_06: So someone who has say, let's say an example of someone who healed through being physically abused as a child, but they're a singer-songwriter, um, they don't want to write books about it, but they want to write songs about it that give hope to someone else.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_06: And so that also relates, and also this is why uh understanding that business means bridge, that they won't have any, if they understand that too, they won't have an egoic block in terms of connotation to bringing this into new thing into the world, and also being uh compensated for it too.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right, right.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and also understand that how does just structure bringing this into the world.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_06: Um, that's not what I share, that's when I point them to like this is a good business podcast to listen to.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_06: That's where my work stops.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but understanding what it is for them, like truly, like what how like what life do you want to live now?
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, if success is guaranteed, what would you want for your life like right now and going forward?
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_06: That is phase three because it completes it, but it will be informed by what you have lived and healed through.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_06: And for some people, it would be like I genuinely I this is what I want to do.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_06: Like maybe a single mum who dealt with abuse in a relationship.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_06: She now wants to create a uh uh company around um organic baby clothes and that that's non-toxic.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_06: There's also messages about like uh don't marry people that are abusive or um look out for this red flag or this is or um teach your kids this so they don't have to learn it the way that I did or whatever.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_06: Um and maybe they support charities or something, or they've got like um some kind of in addition to the the the work, they've got like uh groups with father mums dealing with the same things to come together and be supported.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_06: It will be informed, or maybe someone's 70 and they don't even want to do any work, and for them it's just perfect just just frolicking down the street with the biggest smile on their face where they're just gonna have they're just that's enough for them.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_06: Right, they're just gonna enjoy their time and they're not afraid of dying anymore.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_06: They're just gonna enjoy their time and then they're gonna go back into the oneness, yeah.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_06: And uh and then showing up, that's just about bringing it into the world.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_06: So you're not stopping it at the threshold, you're letting the whole the world benefit from the uniqueness of your wisdom that you can that only you can bring in because no one has lived your life.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and so and when you go through that, you've gone through the whole journey, and energetically it feels complete then.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_06: And what you what people also realize is that when they viewed the the journey as a circle, they now realize it flips and it's an upward spiral, and now they've started a new hero's journey with what they're bringing into the world, just it's a lot more pleasant now because there's no abuse, and they can all they're also doing it clean, right?
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_06: Like imagine just doing life, but you're covered in mud, it's gonna get everywhere, right?
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_06: So, but that's kind of like that's how I've structured things, and that's what I take people through, and that's also what I lived through, yeah.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_06: And I feel like and I did my best to uh structure it in a way that shares the potency and the effectiveness, but it's also very simple to understand, right?
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_06: And so um people aren't just bogged down and lost in the technicalities of stuff, right?
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_06: Which again, like I I I love all those books, I read them all the time, um, is what I come from.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_06: But for people who like they're not what that kind of material is for people that want to coach as well.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, so that's material made for people that are studying it professionally, but for people that don't, they still need to benefit from it.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_06: So that was where I wanted to make the translation.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_06: Like me, if I've got a problem with my computer, you you will not be able to convince me that I need to learn computer code before I can fix it.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_06: Like I will not talk to you, I'll just go and find someone who can tell me how to deal with it.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_06: Like press this button, do that, and do that, and then I'm fine.
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_06: Or if it does need code, all right, I'll just gotta pay you for the code.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:21:27
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but to a degree, there needs to be a certain level of comprehension.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_06: Of course.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_06: But that's kind of what I've wanted to do, and I uh that's also why I structured it the way that I did too.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_06: And it also made the most, it was what I lived through, and it just makes the most logical sense to me, and it's complete and it's whole, and then there are uh areas that people can dive into deeper specificity on certain things depending on what they're dealing with, but it gives a uh a comprehensive and overarching structure that really allows people to feel held throughout the process, and that's really important.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_06: Where even though they're starting through it, they can have a clear overview of the process relatively quickly to where even though they're not through all the processes yet, they can see where it's leading, and that also provides a relaxation for them in the same in a uh that also provides a relaxation for them right away as well.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_06: So um again, there's loads more depth in all of that, but that's like a clear overview of the process uh itself.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_05: So if somebody was ready to address their trauma and they come to you, what would that journey look like?
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_06: So it depends on um what they're sort of ready to invest in terms of time, energy, and finances.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_06: So, like if um someone's kind of like they they they aren't fully ready to like dive fully in, the first thing because I've got three ways of working with people.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_06: I have my self-study program, my group program, and then the private one-to-one mentorship.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_06: The thing is with all of them, is they're all based around the self-study program.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_06: So everyone goes through that, just the only difference between the group program and the private mentorship is there's weekly live coaching with me.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so it's just they can refine things quicker and just go a lot deeper.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but it's all uh uh centered around that curriculum that everyone does, yes.
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, which goes through those what I just said, and that each um phase has certain modules in it with certain um this is the issue, this is this is the tool, this is how you practice it, go practice.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_06: So it's all practice, and like I can explain something in a module for like 35 minutes, but I'll say on there, like I've explained that in like 35 minutes, but it may take you six months to actually be able to practice this tool really well.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_06: Right, right, right.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_06: And phase two again, like the cleaning up bit, just like learning how to clean a house, it's learning how to develop a level of mastery over those tools.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_06: Um, because like learning to clean a house, you need to learn okay, this brush is for that.
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, I can't use a vacuum cleaner to try and clean a tap.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_06: I need okay, I've got to use this thing for that surface and all the rest of it.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_06: And when you've got a certain level of comprehension and fluency in that, yeah, you're able to maintain a clean house because you just know what is for what.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's the same thing here, like something comes up, all right.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_06: I know that's intangible, that's in the psyche, this tool for that, not that tall for that.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_06: So it people can have health in their own hands, yes, and get to the point where they don't genuinely don't really need me anymore.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_06: And that's the goal.
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_06: If someone wanted to address this, the best thing for them to do would be just first just understand like how much depth of support they feel like they need and how much uh they're how much they're willing to meet the work halfway.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, as well.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_06: And again, it's not not judgmental, like sometimes people like with kids and all the rest of it, they just don't have time for the weekly stuff.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_06: Self-study program is great, it's also very financially accessible too.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_06: Just uh uh$59.99 a month, cancel anytime, and then the group program and the private mentorship are the deeper stuff.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_06: So that's um uh uh just that's just more because it is just more in general, yeah.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but there's those three sort of tiers just for um whatever someone's going through.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_06: And uh yeah, the whole the whole thing with this is like he like the healing journey itself is not the point, right?
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_06: It's the passageway to the point, right?
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_06: Which is to just be able to dance with life and joy regardless of what's going on.
• 1:25:44
  SPEAKER_06: Just how like if someone really knows how to clean a house and they come back and see that their kid and their friends have just hurricaned the place and managed to get like they like they look up at the they just look around and they're like, I do not know how they managed to get all of that pasta stuck to that part of the wall or all of that tomato sauce that high up.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm rather mortified because I didn't need this right now, but I know how to deal with this.
• 1:26:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's the same kind of thing, right?
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so that is the that is the point, and that's what that's the way that I teach as well, and that's the way that I guide people through.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_06: It's very practic, it's it's practical.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_06: This is the issue, this is the tool that addresses it, this is why, this is how you practice it, go practice, make the mistakes, come back if someone's in the group program or mentorship and they've got access to the live coaching with me each week, make the mistakes, come back, tell me, refine it, and go again, practice more.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and like no one's ever fully done cleaning a house, but there's a big difference between I'm cleaning this bomb site and maintaining something beautiful.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's it.
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_06: It's the same, it's the same kind of thing, and it's a beautiful resolution.
• 1:26:58
  SPEAKER_06: And so, because of that, and because of the truth of who everyone is, even if you can't see it in the present moment, there's always hope and love because you've never not been without it.
• 1:27:09
  SPEAKER_06: It can only be covered and you can only have some kind of manufactured amnesia to it, it can never not be there, right?
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, love that it's a very valuable work you're doing that's very much needed.
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I was gonna say, do you have a lasting thought that you'd like to share with everyone?
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_06: If you're dealing with something right now, just quieten your mind down, turn inwards and just feel into that deep wise self and just ask, I feel like I feel whatever I'm feeling, like I'm lovable and this or and that.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_06: Is this actually true?
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_06: And turn your mind off and feel the words rise up.
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_06: You'll feel them rise up from below your neck.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_06: You won't feel them in between your ears.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_06: It'll be quiet, so turn so don't turn your mind off.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_06: Just let the words rise up and they'll be felt.
• 1:27:58
  SPEAKER_06: So you'll hear them.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_06: Feeling them, you won't hear them by thinking them, and you'll usually hear something like just a simple nope, and it will be you'll feel it, and it will feel so true.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_06: Like you might cry, sometimes you'll laugh, and then just say, What do I do?
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_06: and then just keep trusting that voice for the rest of your life.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_06: Love it.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_06: Where can they find you?
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um, Jacobmodak.com.
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_06: That would be the place to start.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_06: It's got all the links to my Instagram, which is Jacob Modak, my YouTube channel, which is Jacob Modak Coaching.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_06: All the information about my coaching is on there.
• 1:28:37
  SPEAKER_06: A free gift on there.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_06: I've made the first lesson of the program, which is 53 minutes long.
• 1:28:42
  SPEAKER_06: It's the introduction overview and intention setting lesson.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_06: It comes before the main modules, but it's also very, very helpful too.
• 1:28:50
  SPEAKER_06: That's completely free to download 53 minutes.
• 1:28:53
  SPEAKER_06: So that I've also got a lot of videos on my YouTube channel.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_06: Right now, the YouTube channel's looking a little bit dated and archaic, but I'm going to remedy that soon.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_06: But there's two particular videos on there that are very helpful.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_06: They're recordings of in-depth coaching sessions I did with two amazing women in back in 2024.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_06: I have their permission to have made those publicly available.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_06: Both of them were dealing with quite in-depth traumatic experiences.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_06: One's was four hours long, one was three hours long, and you can kind of see me working with them and guiding them through things.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_06: And so the way that you'll hear me is slightly different to how we've been speaking here because we've been speaking about stuff, but that was like technically diving into stuff.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_06: But both of those together is seven hours worth.
• 1:29:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:29:39
  SPEAKER_06: So there's so that plus the lesson and the other videos, there's like over 10 hours worth of really good stuff on there.
• 1:29:48
  SPEAKER_06: It's very possible to deal with this stuff and heal through it in a lasting way.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_06: It's not hopeless, I promise.
• 1:29:54
  SPEAKER_05: And if they enter the sense only code, they get a discount.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we'll be uh something has been put together for for you guys.
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:30:07
  SPEAKER_06: Which uh all the details will be in the uh description.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_06: Description.
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_06: There we go.
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_05: There you go.
• 1:30:14
  SPEAKER_05: Jacob, you're a blessing to people.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_05: So thank you so much.
• 1:30:17
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you, you two.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_06: I appreciate the uh uh invitation to to come here and share and to a whole and healed humanity.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_05: That's it.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you for your work.
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_05: And this is another awesome episode, and um Jacob's doing his work, and as we always just encourage on this podcast, we want more and more people to be doing their work and stepping into their work.
• 1:30:44
  SPEAKER_05: And another thing that's going to be in the description box is my course in terms of helping everybody to find their calling.
• 1:30:52
  SPEAKER_05: If you're somebody who's got loads of ideas and you don't know what to do, can help you with that.
• 1:30:57
  SPEAKER_05: I can turn your your ideas into something that somebody else receives, so we can go through the whole journey.
• 1:31:05
  SPEAKER_05: And even if you're not if you're somebody who hasn't got any ideas, you just know that um you've got you've got a pull to do something, but you don't know what it is, and you need to get into a stage of finding ideas.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_05: I've also got a free resource resource that can help you to get into a space that shift you into starting to find your ideas that will then continue and get you ready for the rest of the course.
• 1:31:28
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm here, I've got you, I'm taking action to help you take action, and then even maybe one day once everything is flowing and popping for you, you can come and apply to be on this podcast, and you can be sitting in the same chair as everybody else who's also made it to that chair.
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_05: So it's a very comfy chair.
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_05: I recommend it.
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_05: Good morning for this chair, it better be comfy.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um so yeah, and once again, as usual, subscribe, share, like, and um, yeah, actually, share with a minimum of two people.
• 1:32:07
  SPEAKER_05: Let's let's let's get this out here.
• 1:32:09
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I have people coming up to me and telling me how much they love the podcast, and I'm like, just subscribe, people, let's share, people.
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_05: So let's do the thing, let's all pull together and make a difference.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_05: So, once again, stay blessed.