Latest / Life In Flow Podcast / Who are we when we don’t know who we are?

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Who are we when we don’t know who we are? · Life In Flow Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Life in Flow podcast.
0:03
The three of us,
0:05
Yulia,
0:05
Polina,
0:06
and Irina,
0:07
are exploring what Life in Flow and Flow in Life is.
0:12
Join us as we experiment,
0:15
test our diverse hypotheses,
0:17
and have fun in the process.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Will we find an answer?
0:23
SPEAKER_02: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
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SPEAKER_02: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
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We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that the
0:35
conversation itself
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SPEAKER_02: becomes a group flow experience.
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SPEAKER_01: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Go beyond the intellectual information.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Listen with your whole body.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
1:05
Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind,
1:11
body,
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and energy flow together.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Life & Flow podcast.
1:20
I'm Polina,
1:21
I'm facilitating today,
1:22
and I'm joined by my two co-hosts,
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Yulia and Irina.
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SPEAKER_02: Hi, ladies.
1:30
And today we are exploring,
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not knowing as a state,
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how we move when we don't have clarity.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: We're going to be playing with
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SPEAKER_02: how identity loosens,
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SPEAKER_02: how efforts soften,
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SPEAKER_02: how something intelligent can move through us as a state.
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And we'll follow the conversation the way we usually follow the
2:15
current of flow
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SPEAKER_02: between us,
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SPEAKER_02: within us,
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SPEAKER_02: noticing when things flow,
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SPEAKER_02: when they tighten up,
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SPEAKER_02: when they shift,
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SPEAKER_02: and what helps us to return to flow if we shift out of it.
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And the first thing we're going to do is we're going to play a
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little game.
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SPEAKER_02: Identity as a costume.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm going to ask a question and each one of us will share a story.
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SPEAKER_02: Whatever comes to mind, whatever you feel like sharing today.
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It doesn't have to be anything super deep,
2:59
but whatever comes up,
3:00
whatever emerges.
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So the question is,
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what identity did you play best in your 20s and which no longer
3:12
fits?
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SPEAKER_01: Should it be the same identity?
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SPEAKER_01: So something that I did best in the 20s, but it doesn't fit anymore.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
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SPEAKER_02: I could start.
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SPEAKER_02: Unless one of you have something.
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SPEAKER_01: Please go ahead.
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SPEAKER_02: I'd rather not start.
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SPEAKER_02: So go ahead, Ira, if you have it.
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SPEAKER_01: The thing is, you're like, I have it on the tips of my fingers.
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SPEAKER_01: But I can't quite put my thing on it.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: All right.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: I need some time for it to take form.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: What I'm going to do,
4:11
SPEAKER_02: actually,
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is I'm going to read all three questions that I wanted to
4:14
potentially engage with.
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SPEAKER_02: And let's see which one, Lansing, you want to answer.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah?
4:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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So the other two questions are,
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if a toddler described who you are,
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what would they say?
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And the next one is funniest identity that you ever believed
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about yourself.
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SPEAKER_01: I have a question about English.
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SPEAKER_01: What age do we usually refer to when we use the term toddler?
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SPEAKER_02: What a good question.
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SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but Yulia would know.
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SPEAKER_02: She has children.
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SPEAKER_01: Probably like four till four or five.
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SPEAKER_01: So basically, you know, best go by a three-year-old.
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yeah okay so you're like they can speak well like let's say
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it's a five-year-old
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yeah they can speak yeah what is the toddler still a
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five-year-old or no oh it's
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one two three a toddler's only one two three so let's say three
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well you're one two
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three they still can speak i i was just concerned if the
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toddler can speak or not
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because like the first question or the first answer that came
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to my mind was that's
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how they would describe you yeah cool yeah for me i guess the
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answer that lies on
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SPEAKER_01: the surface
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SPEAKER_01: It's just easy to pick up.
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SPEAKER_01: It's my comedic identity.
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SPEAKER_01: I somehow got so immersed,
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SPEAKER_01: got so pulled into improv comedy and then I started to feel fun doing it.
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SPEAKER_01: Not all the time, but still.
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i had these thoughts at the end of last year when i even did uh
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what is it called
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when you like another probe but a prompt no no when you want to
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be on the team on
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SPEAKER_01: the house team and you have to do a what what actors do what do actors do
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SPEAKER_01: Perform?
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SPEAKER_01: Casting for a role.
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SPEAKER_01: Oh, casting.
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SPEAKER_01: In addition.
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SPEAKER_01: Audition.
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SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
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SPEAKER_01: That's what I did.
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SPEAKER_01: Audition.
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SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, what if I get picked?
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SPEAKER_01: Listen, it's nice to be funny all the time.
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I feel like it was also,
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well,
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it was the thing that attracted attention,
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first of all.
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And then was also a thing that makes it easier for you to get
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out of a difficult
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situation and conversation because you know how to turn it
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around and how to make
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SPEAKER_01: it sound funny.
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And it was giving me a lot because improv comedy is so much
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about life and so much
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SPEAKER_01: defies a lot of
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SPEAKER_01: our conditioning in how we interact with each other.
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So that was a funny identity,
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I guess,
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literally funny identity of a comedian.
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SPEAKER_01: And then after the audition, of course, I didn't get in.
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SPEAKER_01: I knew that it was time to pause.
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SPEAKER_01: And I know since
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midsummer i haven't taken a new course i have hardly been there
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so it's as if this
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identity contributed to me what i needed from it and now i feel
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like i would go
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SPEAKER_01: maybe sometime um you know maybe i'll take another course at one point
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And it's cool to see a show,
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but that I'm not kind of like trying on that identity.
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SPEAKER_02: Cool.
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SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing.
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SPEAKER_01: Ira.
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I got carried away by this thought that when the identity
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fulfills its role and
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SPEAKER_01: then it sort of just goes away on its own.
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SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's...
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SPEAKER_01: It sounds familiar to me,
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SPEAKER_01: although I can't,
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SPEAKER_01: again,
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SPEAKER_01: put my finger on it,
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SPEAKER_01: on something concrete to tell a story,
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SPEAKER_01: but the sensation itself is very familiar.
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And I actually,
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like,
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I think I'm going to mix my answers for two questions.
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SPEAKER_01: Because I was thinking about also, like, the funniest identity.
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SPEAKER_01: And what came to my mind, well...
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I won't go into the drilling to understand what do we mean by
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the funniest.
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SPEAKER_01: Should it be funny for me or for the other people?
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SPEAKER_01: I will just go with what came to me.
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SPEAKER_01: And it is when I'm what I call being a star.
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SPEAKER_01: So,
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SPEAKER_01: like,
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SPEAKER_01: when I really somehow,
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SPEAKER_01: like,
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SPEAKER_01: the circumstances,
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SPEAKER_01: the energies of the circumstances,
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SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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SPEAKER_01: confluence,
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SPEAKER_01: and...
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SPEAKER_01: What do they do?
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SPEAKER_01: Like, well, they flow together.
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SPEAKER_01: Converge.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Converge.
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SPEAKER_01: And so somehow...
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SPEAKER_01: It so happens that the people around me,
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SPEAKER_01: like with whom I am doing whatever activity I'm doing,
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SPEAKER_01: they recognize me as someone special.
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SPEAKER_01: And you're like, I love being the center of attention.
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SPEAKER_01: So like,
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and they are giving me this intention and I start like
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flowering and showing up
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SPEAKER_01: myself and they give me even more attention.
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SPEAKER_01: And then you're like, everyone...
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become so uh amazed that wow irina you have such an amazing
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energy so exuberant and
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you're like extravagant and you're like you're a star and
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you're like yeah yeah of
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SPEAKER_01: course i'm a star
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SPEAKER_01: And so,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: it really,
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SPEAKER_01: the things they should converge for it to happen,
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SPEAKER_01: because it doesn't happen always,
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SPEAKER_01: but when it happens,
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SPEAKER_01: I really feel myself like I'm on the wave.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm riding this, like, the wave of success and recognition.
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SPEAKER_01: And
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SPEAKER_01: It is funny for the others because somehow they find me funny,
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SPEAKER_01: but not funny in the sense of like a clown,
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SPEAKER_01: but I give them joy.
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My exuberant energy when I feel myself a star because I receive
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attention from them.
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So I give this energy away and they feel joy and I feel joy
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because I'm receiving
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SPEAKER_01: this attention.
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But what also came to my mind regarding the question about the
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identity of the 20s
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SPEAKER_01: that doesn't fit anymore,
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SPEAKER_01: it's somehow related to that because when I was young,
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SPEAKER_01: I was really looking for this kind of situation.
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SPEAKER_01: So I was looking for the ways to be the center of attention.
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SPEAKER_01: And so I was specifically looking for
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for ways to be different,
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to make a point that I'm different from the others.
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SPEAKER_01: And then somehow, I guess, it takes one to accept that you are different.
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SPEAKER_01: When I just
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SPEAKER_01: I'm different and I don't need to prove it.
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I don't need to look for this attention because I know when the
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thing's right and
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SPEAKER_01: when the energies are right,
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SPEAKER_01: it comes naturally.
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SPEAKER_01: And when it doesn't come naturally, you can't force it.
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so somehow this need of like of attracting attention no matter
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what and proving
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that i'm very different i'm not like the others it it went away
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maybe because
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you're just like the the part that really makes me different i
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just got integrated
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SPEAKER_01: into it so i
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SPEAKER_01: I lost the need to prove it to myself and to the world.
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SPEAKER_02: Your story really resonates for me.
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SPEAKER_02: Also, can I just say, I really love how
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you really welcome and approve and own that there is a part of
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you that loves
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SPEAKER_02: attention and loves to be the center of it and,
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SPEAKER_02: you know,
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SPEAKER_02: the star.
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SPEAKER_02: I think it's a really attractive and a really,
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SPEAKER_02: it feels good that you are,
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SPEAKER_02: the relationship you have to this within you,
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SPEAKER_02: it feels good to be witnessing it because it doesn't feel like,
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You know,
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sometimes people can have like a similar quality,
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but they don't own it.
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So it comes across like an incoherent thing that kind of throws
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the observer off or
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SPEAKER_02: out all the time.
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SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't feel good.
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SPEAKER_02: But the way you're sitting in it,
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SPEAKER_02: at least today,
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SPEAKER_02: for sure,
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SPEAKER_02: it just feels really good to be with you in this way,
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SPEAKER_02: to witness someone really owning.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love attention.
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SPEAKER_02: I love when I'm the center of it.
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SPEAKER_02: I love when I'm the star.
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I just wanted to say that that was coming up for me when you
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were sharing.
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SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
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SPEAKER_02: and so for me,
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it would be hard for me to actually talk about this without the
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perspective of
16:42
SPEAKER_02: parts,
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because I really know now that one of the identities that I had
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in my 20s was
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SPEAKER_02: really just the part that's still here.
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SPEAKER_02: It's grown up a little bit,
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SPEAKER_02: it's developed,
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SPEAKER_02: maybe it's matured,
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SPEAKER_02: so the way it comes up now is different.
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SPEAKER_02: But it's still here.
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SPEAKER_02: But in my 20s, it was this, like, entertainer.
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SPEAKER_02: But an entertainer with an edge of sarcasm.
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like very sarcastic very like you know i i will i will pick up
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what's like a weak
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point for you and i'll make so much fun out of it and i'll poke
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you with it and
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i'll make fun of it and it was a way to actually now looking
17:29
back i understand that
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SPEAKER_02: it was a way to um kind of um
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maybe shift the energies a little bit around the thing that was
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stuck in them or in the space.
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SPEAKER_02: But also,
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SPEAKER_02: you know,
17:45
SPEAKER_02: I was a bit provoking and I was like,
17:47
just really a bit like this part of me has a really big persona
17:52
and a lot of energy
17:53
and it's very like infectious and like people usually would
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describe me as really,
18:00
SPEAKER_02: really fun.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: Um,
18:03
SPEAKER_02: And then,
18:03
SPEAKER_02: you know,
18:04
SPEAKER_02: as time went on,
18:06
SPEAKER_02: yes,
18:06
SPEAKER_02: I love this aspect of me,
18:08
but it also ended up being that people would only see me and
18:12
interact with me from
18:14
SPEAKER_02: wanting to interact with that part.
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SPEAKER_02: But that part was just a small part of me.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: It had nothing to do with the depth and,
18:21
SPEAKER_02: you know,
18:21
like all the other things that I actually feel more connected
18:26
to in terms of what's
18:27
SPEAKER_02: really real,
18:28
SPEAKER_02: you know?
18:28
SPEAKER_02: So...
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SPEAKER_02: that part was no longer producing the results that I wanted.
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SPEAKER_02: So I had to put it to rest for a bit.
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SPEAKER_02: Um,
18:44
SPEAKER_02: and then it started coming back again after I did some work on myself,
18:47
SPEAKER_02: but it was,
18:48
SPEAKER_02: but it came back in a different way.
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SPEAKER_02: It wasn't so much like of an edge and so much of a provocation.
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It was more about like,
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let's just have fun and let's like generate energy and,
19:00
um,
19:03
SPEAKER_02: And yet,
19:04
SPEAKER_02: still,
19:06
SPEAKER_02: even now,
19:07
SPEAKER_02: you know,
19:08
SPEAKER_02: where I am today,
19:09
I still don't know how much that part is truly a part of who I
19:16
am or it was,
19:18
SPEAKER_02: you know,
19:18
SPEAKER_02: like a...
19:20
like a part that developed this way of interacting because that
19:24
was required,
19:24
SPEAKER_02: that was needed in order for me to have a bridge to connect with people,
19:28
SPEAKER_02: to not feel bored by people,
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SPEAKER_02: bored by situations.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: Also,
19:34
SPEAKER_02: as a way,
19:35
SPEAKER_02: I guess,
19:36
to overcome a lot of the heaviness and a lot of the pain that I
19:40
actually was living
19:41
SPEAKER_02: in majority of the time.
19:42
And this was like my reprieve from all of that,
19:45
like a self-generated reprieve.
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SPEAKER_02: So I'm really grateful for this part.
19:50
And yet I still don't know how we fit together,
19:54
like in a fully coherent,
19:56
fully integrated way.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: So it's still in process, if that makes sense.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Is there a fully coherent and integrated way?
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Potentially, why not?
20:08
SPEAKER_02: I'd love one.
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SPEAKER_01: I just wasn't aware of one in my life, but that's why I asked.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: Well,
20:19
SPEAKER_02: Dan Siegel,
20:21
SPEAKER_02: in his work,
20:23
SPEAKER_02: and also Richard Schwartz,
20:25
SPEAKER_02: right,
20:25
SPEAKER_02: for IFS,
20:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
20:26
SPEAKER_02: they do talk about...
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SPEAKER_02: It's not that they blend together at the end,
20:30
SPEAKER_02: the parts,
20:31
but once you release whatever they're carrying that's actually
20:35
not helpful and the
20:36
parts have new jobs and new roles that they choose that they're
20:39
happy with,
20:40
it becomes like an integrated system in terms of it's still
20:44
different nodes of
20:46
SPEAKER_02: parts,
20:46
SPEAKER_02: right?
20:46
But they they function and they know each other and they
20:50
function well together.
20:52
So it becomes a much more fluid state where where like the self
20:57
is still the main
21:01
SPEAKER_02: the main conductor.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: But it's a different.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it becomes a more integrated, coherent system.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, to me, that sounds really cool.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: And I would like to see what what that feels like eventually.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: Do you want to share what else is coming up for you around that?
21:32
There's resistance around the concept that it could be a more
21:35
coherent,
21:35
integrated system?
21:37
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Of course, everything can be more coherent and integrated.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: You just don't know.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: I was just speaking.
21:45
um on you maybe by saying we're not fully coherent and not
21:49
fully integrated and to
21:52
me you know this sounds very static i don't see how you can
22:01
just become fully
22:03
coherent and fully integrated because there is so much movement
22:08
happening all the
22:09
SPEAKER_01: time and
22:11
There are many parts and many non-human interactions that are
22:18
always there.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: And I guess that was my question.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: That's what my question was about.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: I completely agree with you.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: I didn't mean to describe it as a static system.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: I actually think it is completely fluid.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: and always shifting and changing its form,
22:39
but maybe in a more coherent way than at some other points in
22:45
my personal life,
22:46
SPEAKER_02: where there was a lot more edge and other energies that made it hard,
22:51
like hard to hold all of the aspects of who I am in a way that
22:59
feels good to me.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: But for sure, I don't think of it as a static system or a static goal.
23:11
I think that there will always be some part that will be
23:16
screwing things up at a certain point.
23:21
I think the more coherent system would mean that we just have
23:24
more tools and the
23:26
abilities to recognize it and to welcome it and to smooth
23:31
things up when necessary.
23:35
in comparison to like what happened to us when we were
23:40
completely ignorant of what
23:44
was going on yeah and maybe not also when we stop expecting too
23:49
much control and
23:49
clarity from it if i were to yeah to tell our topic because all
23:59
expectations i
24:00
SPEAKER_01: think they
24:04
SPEAKER_01: as if they,
24:06
SPEAKER_01: in my experience,
24:07
SPEAKER_01: as if they create this field where there is a lot of resistance,
24:10
SPEAKER_01: because then when you already have an expectation,
24:13
SPEAKER_01: that means that it has to go a certain way.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Although, of course, we say, well, no, it doesn't.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's as if there is kind of
24:34
SPEAKER_01: a relationship where I'm trying to catch a snake by its tail.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Why are we catching the snake by the sail?
24:58
SPEAKER_01: I also was trying to understand.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: I think I dropped out.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean, Yulia?
25:08
SPEAKER_01: No, I was just saying that if we talk about control and
25:20
clarity and imagining what this part should be doing and then
25:23
that part should be
25:24
doing then to me it feels as if i'm pre-defining the field that
25:31
actually doesn't
25:32
exist yet and it feels like i'm trying to catch a snake by its
25:36
tail it just felt
25:40
SPEAKER_01: like somehow the snake got into this i don't know how
25:47
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't a metaphor I have thought over, really.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: No, but it's okay.
25:54
I just think when you were speaking,
25:59
I missed what this metaphor was applying to.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: But I think I actually agree.
26:11
because i had in my life exactly also like in the terms of
26:17
working with my parts
26:20
The situation when I thought that I recognized all the positive
26:27
functions and
26:29
SPEAKER_01: sorted out the relationships between the parts,
26:31
SPEAKER_01: and I was amazed how it was actually about my inner critic.
26:36
When I realized that in its really coherent role,
26:42
it fulfills the role of the,
26:46
I called it,
26:48
the guardian of the system it's very important because someone
26:53
needs to watch that
26:54
like everything should work well according to like for the
27:00
benefits of the system
27:02
until recently i discovered that this guardian of the system
27:10
turned into really
27:14
SPEAKER_01: guardian of
27:17
SPEAKER_01: You're like someone who seemed like,
27:21
SPEAKER_01: now you won't move anywhere until you fulfill this and this and this.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I did this.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: I did this and I don't know how to undo it.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: I put the guardian there, huh?
27:48
I wonder what I said that made you receive what I'm describing
28:01
as if I'm saying
28:02
there's all this work that has to be done to pre-prepare a part
28:09
for how it should
28:10
SPEAKER_02: show up.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: Because actually that's not what I meant at all.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: In the process of
28:18
working with parts and helping them release some things that
28:22
they may have taken on
28:24
as a responsibility or the way that they are used to showing up
28:28
and interacting
28:30
SPEAKER_02: with the world or even internally.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: A lot of that is outdated data that they're using, outdated reasons.
28:40
SPEAKER_02: So the process of helping the parts kind of unburden and change roles
28:48
gets them more closely aligned with what they may originally
28:54
have been there for.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: what their essence might have been which then kind of clarifies the field
29:01
energetically internally and so then when that part shows up
29:06
it's not like you are
29:07
controlling it or telling it how to be but it is legitimately
29:10
it feels differently
29:13
and it might show up differently the more it unburdens itself
29:18
from outdated sort of
29:20
SPEAKER_02: programming or ways it decided to interact with the world so
29:27
SPEAKER_02: It does become more of a coherent system,
29:29
SPEAKER_02: but not because you are like guarding it or telling it what to do.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: It just is more coherent.
29:37
And it is actually probably even more fluid because everyone's
29:40
aware of each other,
29:42
SPEAKER_02: at least to some degree.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: And there's also a very clear delineation between them and like yourself,
29:50
SPEAKER_02: your true self,
29:51
SPEAKER_02: which is the adult self,
29:53
SPEAKER_02: the one that has more access to all the data,
29:55
SPEAKER_02: you know.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: So it does then become a more...
30:01
SPEAKER_02: an easier,
30:06
SPEAKER_02: cleaner way to interact with the world and also yourself,
30:10
SPEAKER_02: from my perspective.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: How does that land?
30:17
SPEAKER_01: I totally agree with you.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: I guess you're like...
30:22
what i understood from the julius objection or at least like
30:27
how it landed with me
30:30
and what resonated with me was like the the idea that like you
30:37
once arrive to a
30:39
more coherent system and it will stay coherent for the rest of
30:43
your life that was
30:45
SPEAKER_01: what we resisting to
30:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that I meant that.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: I think on frequency level, yes, you do go to a different level.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: So then the bottom of that level is,
31:00
SPEAKER_02: of course,
31:00
SPEAKER_02: going to be different than the bottom before you did some work.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: But no, it's always going to be in flux.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: Things are happening.
31:07
SPEAKER_02: Shit's happening.
31:10
if you haven't confirmed removed some of the deletions along
31:14
the way definitely
31:16
they're gonna come up again but I think there is progress
31:20
possible and so I am a
31:23
SPEAKER_02: firm believer that that is possible and I'm putting it out there
31:27
SPEAKER_01: The progress is possible, but sometimes... That's right.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes... No, like, it's not even sometimes.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it will come later.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: The progress is actually... It's never linear, like, line upward.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: It's always a spiral.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: And so,
31:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
31:47
SPEAKER_01: sometimes the parts of the spirals,
31:52
SPEAKER_01: the spirals,
31:53
SPEAKER_01: they're so close to each other that...
31:56
You look,
31:57
sometimes you come to the point when it seems that you're like,
32:01
you know what?
32:02
I have been working on it and I have cleared it and I have made
32:06
it more coherent
32:07
SPEAKER_01: 1000 times,
32:08
but I still came back and you don't have enough perspective at
32:13
this point to see
32:15
SPEAKER_01: that you're actually at a different level.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: It seems that you're regressing and everything became incoherent again.
32:25
There is always something that gets out of attunement and seems
32:36
or feels or acts as
32:38
SPEAKER_01: not coherent.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: Because that's life.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: But I do agree, progress is possible.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: I guess I wasn't really objecting to anything.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: I was just noticing how it was for me, what you were sharing.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: And I was just voicing that.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: And I think now that I've been kind of like sitting with this,
33:07
SPEAKER_01: I think maybe there is something that,
33:15
SPEAKER_01: you know,
33:15
SPEAKER_01: whatever,
33:16
SPEAKER_01: some resistance
33:18
SPEAKER_01: And it's related to the fact that,
33:25
SPEAKER_01: we've touched on this before,
33:28
that compartmentalizing and all this part and let me tune it on
33:36
this part and then
33:37
SPEAKER_01: it's all gonna work together.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: It's just this kind of framework, I think, is very,
33:49
SPEAKER_01: not very, but it feels incoherent to me.
33:54
Because to our conversation that we are machines and we're
34:04
whatever advanced pieces
34:05
SPEAKER_01: of machinery,
34:08
SPEAKER_01: I find that when we even give
34:16
strict definitions or even not strict definitions but give the
34:21
parts certain names
34:24
then even think about them as parts and kind of like there is
34:31
this image that
34:35
emerges for me this is something that's not fluid when it
34:41
consists of so many parts
34:45
SPEAKER_01: that's
34:47
that's i think what was my what was coming up uh can we rewind
34:57
a little bit did you
34:58
say that it doesn't feel fluid to you if it has too many parts
35:04
because it has too
35:05
SPEAKER_01: many parts um it's
35:09
know the way i i guess the way that i was seeing it as we're
35:14
talking about parts is
35:16
that oh you know this is this part and it's like and it's like
35:20
this but it will get
35:21
like this and you know um this part needs some tuning and this
35:27
part needs some
35:28
pruning and this part needs something else and i like if i talk
35:34
about myself i mean
35:36
SPEAKER_01: i have no um
35:42
I don't want to be making this kind of decisions,
35:45
this part needs this tuning and pruning.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know,
35:49
SPEAKER_01: also,
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Paulina,
35:50
SPEAKER_01: that's maybe what you were not saying,
35:52
SPEAKER_01: but as we were discussing it in these terms,
35:56
SPEAKER_01: this was coming up for me.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: Wait,
35:59
SPEAKER_02: can I actually,
36:00
SPEAKER_02: as I was tuning in to really understand where you're coming from,
36:03
SPEAKER_02: because it's important,
36:07
I wanted to make the distinction in case I wasn't clear that it
36:12
is not the I that
36:15
SPEAKER_02: decides from my parts what needs to happen.
36:17
SPEAKER_02: It's actually the part.
36:19
I would ask the part what it needs or what it's carrying or
36:23
what new job it wants.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not making decisions for it.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm treating it as its own being because in a way it is in the system.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: And also I was wondering, what if we looked at it as the internal garden?
36:41
SPEAKER_02: And you are the steward of your internal garden.
36:44
And you would have to tend to the different types of plants
36:48
you've planted and ask
36:50
SPEAKER_02: them what they need to thrive.
36:51
SPEAKER_02: Do they need more water?
36:52
SPEAKER_02: Do they need more nutrients?
36:54
SPEAKER_02: Do they want to be replanted somewhere else?
36:55
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like that kind of thing.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: It's tending to your internal garden.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: Would that help that image or no?
37:05
SPEAKER_01: Not at all, because this is not how garden works.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's a forest.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: It is a forest.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: And this is not at all a forest.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where I'm coming from.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Because the more kind of exposure I have to these systems,
37:29
SPEAKER_01: living systems,
37:30
SPEAKER_01: the more I see and experience how they don't work this way at all.
37:38
the garden that i was i was thinking that i was doing gardening
37:43
but then like a lot
37:44
of things were doing the garden for me and actually it is like
37:52
oh we we know better
37:53
like plants came plants went plants decided where they wanted
38:00
to grow and where
38:01
SPEAKER_01: they didn't want to grow
38:05
SPEAKER_01: It was like, yeah, exactly.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, in the forest.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: What is even the forest?
38:15
Because now I'm reading this book that's called Entangled Life
38:19
about fungi.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Paulina, I mentioned it to you.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: It's like this stuff that the guy describes about forests.
38:30
was also i thought i had read some books about forests and i
38:33
had an idea but no uh
38:36
SPEAKER_01: not at all and um one of the interesting things um says that there are
38:44
anthropologists nowadays who want to say that it's not
38:49
evolution what is happening
38:53
SPEAKER_01: in
38:54
on this planet or in this universe it's should not be called
38:57
maybe evolution just
39:00
going out outward it should be called involution because it's
39:06
about involvement i
39:08
mean everything gets involved with everything all the time with
39:13
outcomes that are
39:15
just not predictable those fungal networks trees you know how
39:21
they come together
39:22
SPEAKER_01: what
39:24
happens after what happens in the process where it leads it's
39:29
like there is no way
39:32
to tell no way and yes i mean stewardship of course is there
39:41
but not where um like
39:46
SPEAKER_01: i'm aware of all my parts i'm aware of all my plants and i'm just the
39:51
SPEAKER_01: It's just kind of like,
39:52
SPEAKER_01: how can I join this involution and be a part,
40:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
40:04
SPEAKER_01: a part,
40:05
SPEAKER_01: not a part,
40:07
SPEAKER_01: and like co-create with it.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: We are literally saying the same thing.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: And this part that you have that is resisting something,
40:16
SPEAKER_02: and I don't know what it's worried about or scared,
40:18
SPEAKER_02: but I want to welcome it.
40:19
I love all your parts,
40:22
but this part that's resisting is somehow twisting something.
40:28
Our ability to see that we're actually talking about very
40:32
similar,
40:32
at least.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to say the same, but very similar things.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Ir, do you, as the third person... I agree with you, Pauline.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: In the end, this is what we're talking about.
40:43
It's just maybe the matter of the models and how we describe
40:49
the model doesn't fit
40:51
SPEAKER_01: in the way how Yule sees things.
40:56
this moment but it is actually about exactly just seeing and
41:02
it's not about you're
41:03
like okay i am the the wizard of the oars and i am like pulling
41:09
the string and
41:10
you're like i'm deciding you're doing this and you're doing
41:12
that and assigning the
41:14
roles it's it is exactly about discovering like what is growing
41:19
in my inner garden
41:21
SPEAKER_01: and how it is growing and what does it ask
41:25
SPEAKER_01: So the whole system,
41:31
the whole garden could flourish better and not die out because
41:40
it all consumed by
41:42
SPEAKER_01: the bad weeds and it's not being taken care of or whatever.
41:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's very much a co-creative process.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't have to be a garden.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: It could be a forest.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: It could be whatever it is that you want to use as the analogy.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: But I guess that... And also, I didn't say all parts.
42:01
I don't even believe it's possible for us to get to know all of
42:04
our parts.
42:05
I think it's way too complicated and complex of a system that's
42:08
not just about the
42:09
SPEAKER_02: internal system,
42:10
SPEAKER_02: but also the external factors that I...
42:14
SPEAKER_02: But that's a whole other conversation.
42:18
But this part that's coming up for you is having,
42:23
it doesn't want to take it on today.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: It wants to take it into a different direction.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't mean to take us on this detour.
42:37
And I just actually,
42:39
you know,
42:39
once I made that comment,
42:41
my intention was just to
42:44
let it slide um but i guess and we didn't let it slide well
42:52
actually you wanted to
42:53
let it slide but it was still here in the room with us and i
42:56
could not move on
42:57
until we like at least let put some some some some a little bit
43:01
of movement around
43:03
SPEAKER_02: the resistance um
43:06
SPEAKER_02: So I hope you don't mind.
43:08
SPEAKER_03: Not at all.
43:09
I wanted to land together a little bit more coherently so we
43:13
could all together,
43:15
SPEAKER_02: at least in some way,
43:16
SPEAKER_02: can go further on this little journey we're taking on today.
43:20
SPEAKER_02: So thank you for humoring me and for playing along and for letting me
43:27
SPEAKER_02: Dig a little bit.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: And thanks, Ida, for your assistance.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: In my garden.
43:32
SPEAKER_02: In your garden.
43:33
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
43:33
SPEAKER_02: Dig a little bit in that garden of yours.
43:35
SPEAKER_02: I have a naughty garden, okay?
43:41
SPEAKER_01: You know there are gardens like that.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: Where you're not allowed to dig.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: There's some weeds in there.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: Not allowed to dig, yeah?
43:49
SPEAKER_01: No, literally.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: Like there are gardens nowadays where you're not allowed to dig, yeah.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
43:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: I want to hear more about this.
44:01
Maybe you can do an episode and then share with us about this
44:06
interesting,
44:07
SPEAKER_02: curious foreign world to me.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: To dig or not to dig?
44:16
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, if you don't mind, I'm going to take us to the next part.
44:23
And I'm actually going to follow the same model because that is
44:28
in my pleasure.
44:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to read the three questions,
44:32
SPEAKER_02: one after the other,
44:33
SPEAKER_02: and then whatever lands and whatever presents itself,
44:36
SPEAKER_02: we will answer.
44:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
44:42
SPEAKER_02: What collapses first when you stop trying to be someone?
44:52
SPEAKER_02: What does your body do when you stop performing?
45:02
Where do you feel the difference between social identity and
45:08
true identity?
45:23
SPEAKER_01: I have the resistance now.
45:27
I have a doubt regarding whether such a thing as true identity
45:37
exists at all.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: But...
45:55
SPEAKER_01: It is true that... So the identity is something that we identify with.
46:24
The social identity is the mask that I put on to present myself
46:30
to the outer world
46:32
and to fit as I am seeking to fit in the circumstances and
46:39
according to the social
46:41
SPEAKER_01: norms,
46:41
SPEAKER_01: etc.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: To get accepted or not accepted if that is my identity.
46:52
so it is true that like I may have this mask and I even may
47:01
believe when I'm in the
47:02
social circumstances and I'm presenting myself to the outer
47:06
world like I may fuse
47:10
SPEAKER_01: myself with this mask and when I get out of it
47:18
I may put on a different mask that I would believe that this is
47:23
me when I don't
47:25
SPEAKER_01: have to act for the others.
47:30
It doesn't mean that it will be truer than the mask I put on
47:34
for the others.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: So like coming back
47:48
SPEAKER_01: to the conversation about the parts,
47:54
any identity feels like it is just reducing my perception of
48:03
myself to only one of
48:04
SPEAKER_01: my parts,
48:08
SPEAKER_01: as opposed to opening up to more,
48:15
SPEAKER_01: fluid system of that.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: I can be many things in different ways, in different circumstances.
48:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if this fluid, multifaceted identity is still an identity.
48:44
If you're like,
48:45
I'm open to be different,
48:48
many things and different moments.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, englobing all my identities.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: Is it the true identity?
49:06
SPEAKER_01: I would more...
49:11
SPEAKER_01: be inclined to call it as no identity.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it made sense.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have a, wait, you want to say something?
49:25
SPEAKER_02: No, go ahead.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: I had a quick question.
49:27
SPEAKER_02: I wanted to clarify.
49:28
SPEAKER_02: I want to understand better.
49:30
Are you saying when you are not performing a mask,
49:35
as you described,
49:37
and you are maybe
49:41
closer to let's say your natural state you still are not sure
49:49
whether you're
49:49
performing or not and whether it's actually you that that that
49:54
that is exactly my
49:55
point i might not be performing for the others but i may still
50:00
continue performing
50:01
SPEAKER_01: for myself
50:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's such a good distinction.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: Because this is what I believe.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: The identity means that I believe that I'm this way.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: And hence, I have to feel this way.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: I have to act this way.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: I have to think this way.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: Even if it's not about performance for the others.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: Because I know it in my life.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: I quote myself...
50:32
in this more than once like that I react and I feel and I have
50:41
an emotional
50:42
reactions and in certain ways when I'm completely alone just
50:47
because that is my
50:49
identity that I assume that this is who I am and this is how I
50:55
need to feel but
50:58
SPEAKER_01: that's just one of the parts
51:01
SPEAKER_02: I have another question, but can you share what you were going to share?
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't also see a true identity.
51:17
SPEAKER_01: I think also if I'm with myself,
51:23
SPEAKER_01: or if I'm alone,
51:24
SPEAKER_01: I guess I also see the way that I'm never truly alone.
51:31
maybe alone and one the only human in the room yet i'm of
51:39
course not alone because
51:42
even tears shape us and shape how we feel and what we think as
51:49
we know right um and
51:53
SPEAKER_01: of course so many
51:56
other ways you know how is the moon today and how are the stars
52:03
aligned and what
52:05
kind of wind is blowing and what kind of memory was planted in
52:14
me when i passed a
52:18
SPEAKER_01: tree or a house or something like that
52:22
so i also um like what's my true identity is it my trade you
52:28
know like i yeah i i
52:33
actually see myself more the identity in more in a more porous
52:39
way and then the
52:42
second thing i wanted to say that actually then this question
52:46
brings me to our
52:47
SPEAKER_01: conversation on being which was not very conclusive
52:53
SPEAKER_01: to say, to put it mildly.
52:56
And after that conversation where I understood I had a very
53:01
hard time defining for
53:02
SPEAKER_01: myself what I even meant by being versus doing,
53:06
SPEAKER_01: I happened to see with my family movie Forrest Gump for 159th time.
53:19
And it's as if this movie just answered a lot of my questions
53:23
about being.
53:25
So,
53:26
I mean,
53:27
Forrest to me is being and maybe something close that comes to
53:33
this story.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: true identity.
53:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't want to call it true identity.
53:40
Maybe I would call it soul or soul that's defined by someone's
53:48
unique place in this universe.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: And whether he was alone or with others,
53:56
SPEAKER_01: that place always shone through.
54:00
And whether he was not doing much or whether he was doing tons,
54:06
that place always shone through.
54:23
I also watched some of the clips from Forrest Gump because you
54:27
brought it up last
54:28
time we spoke and I see what you mean and I also have a
54:34
different sense about his
54:42
SPEAKER_02: soul.
54:42
SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's an example of presence but it's also influenced by
54:55
development and brain activity and all of those things are also
55:02
co-creating his
55:05
SPEAKER_01: state no doubt about that if he's always co-creating with everything
55:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't, I mean, it's a metaphorical example of something.
55:18
I'm not sure it's really like the North Star for how we as
55:22
humans should be or can be.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: Maybe in some ways, but I lost my track of thought.
55:42
SPEAKER_01: While you're lost,
55:43
I will say that I think that Forrest Gump is not the North Star
55:49
of how human beings
55:51
SPEAKER_01: we should be.
55:52
SPEAKER_01: What actually came to my mind was I once started the...
56:04
the enneagram by gurdjieff i don't know if you're familiar with
56:09
enneagram like the
56:10
way how they teach it now yes it's like so someone took the uh
56:17
an ancient esoteric
56:19
SPEAKER_01: you're like
56:20
teaching the model and applied it to the psychotherapeutic
56:24
world and came up with
56:28
the like typology system where like you uh identify yourself
56:33
with like i am this
56:35
SPEAKER_01: type of that type etc and so the the the ancient esoteric teaching uh was
56:46
SPEAKER_01: much developed by Gurdjieff,
56:48
SPEAKER_01: who was an esoteric guru from the Caucasus,
56:58
SPEAKER_01: very popular in Europe in the beginning of,
57:01
SPEAKER_01: I think,
57:02
SPEAKER_01: 20th century.
57:03
SPEAKER_01: But the point is, so the way how this system works is...
57:13
basically the main principles when we get born from the
57:19
interaction with the
57:21
feminine and the masculine energy of our father and mother
57:27
figures this is how our
57:32
SPEAKER_01: personality like our ego our parts are being formed
57:40
SPEAKER_01: And because there is always some disequilibrium,
57:44
SPEAKER_01: like disbalancing between these two paths,
57:47
SPEAKER_01: how the feminine energy of the mother presents in our interactions,
57:53
how the masculine energy of the father presents in our
57:56
interaction with us.
57:57
So there is always some disbalance,
58:00
and there's different typology emerging based from that.
58:04
SPEAKER_01: But there is one type that they call son,
58:10
which as they describe it like these are the people who don't
58:17
practically don't
58:18
have the ego because they always feel like their essence always
58:25
shines through like
58:27
SPEAKER_01: the like the essence of Forrest Gump and it's always like
58:33
SPEAKER_01: shines through his presence.
58:36
SPEAKER_01: So, like, he doesn't put on the mask.
58:39
SPEAKER_01: The problem with this,
58:41
and this is what we discussed in our previous conversation
58:44
regarding the ego.
58:45
So,
58:46
like,
58:46
without ego,
58:47
you can't interact with the world because this is your
58:50
operating system.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: So, like, it's very difficult for us to be Forrest Gump.
58:57
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is the example of...
59:01
how the being shines through the presence even in the action
59:08
but i don't think we
59:10
can be like him because it's just not practical wait but also
59:15
it's not very fun
59:16
because he's a very literal being and it's not very fun for me
59:24
well i think he had
59:25
SPEAKER_01: fun he had quite a lot of fun not always but
59:30
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, it's not fun necessarily to interact with him.
59:33
SPEAKER_01: Actually,
59:35
SPEAKER_01: the way that he was able to just fully be present,
59:43
SPEAKER_01: engage,
59:44
and enjoy everything that came his way was actually one of the
59:49
things that made
59:50
SPEAKER_01: me...
59:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
59:52
SPEAKER_01: made me...
59:58
surprised me i guess that's maybe part i didn't see that
1:00:03
closely before um and
1:00:09
maybe to me that reflected part of his the deeper truthfulness
1:00:18
that he was
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: preserving and because of that
1:00:24
SPEAKER_01: Like there wasn't a lot of internal conflicts that are usually related to
1:00:31
SPEAKER_01: pretending,
1:00:32
SPEAKER_01: not knowing what you are.
1:00:34
And yeah,
1:00:41
I mean,
1:00:41
it's like he was just fully enjoying everything that he did.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_02: Actually, I'm not sure if he knew what he is.
1:00:55
I'm not sure he had the ability to see himself from the side in
1:00:59
the way that we are
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: talking about.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not arguing your point.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_02: I agree with you.
1:01:08
But I also I'm not sure that he had the type of observer self
1:01:13
that was able to see
1:01:14
SPEAKER_02: himself as the being he was being.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_02: Because
1:01:20
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not sure.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_02: I think it requires more.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_02: More processing power potentially in order to be able to do that.
1:01:33
He was just being I don't know that he was also aware of the
1:01:37
fact that he was being
1:01:39
SPEAKER_02: the way he was being.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_02: when I tune in.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_02: But also, we don't know.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_02: This is a movie.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_02: This is an actor playing a role, so we don't really know.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_01: No, but still, it's an important reference figure.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter that it's a movie.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_02: It does matter.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_02: It matters because when I watched the clips yesterday,
1:02:07
SPEAKER_02: I could tell it's still Tom Hanks playing this character.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: You cannot take the brilliance of who Tom Hanks is as a being.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_02: And even if he can simplify the operating system that he is performing,
1:02:25
SPEAKER_02: Tom Hanks is still in there.
1:02:30
yeah i mean like like it's i didn't bring it in to divert our
1:02:36
discussion to forrest
1:02:37
gump so uh again i at all i didn't mean to and probably have
1:02:45
our own opinions on
1:02:48
forrest gump which we do we are now um seeing so yeah i that
1:02:54
was not my intention
1:02:57
SPEAKER_02: I think it's a cool metaphor.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_02: And yet, yeah, we all three see maybe different aspects within it.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_02: Can we leave it there?
1:03:07
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_02: And...
1:03:16
SPEAKER_02: I actually still had a question for Ira.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_02: Ira,
1:03:20
when you're potentially doing the internal performance versus
1:03:24
the external
1:03:25
SPEAKER_02: performance,
1:03:26
SPEAKER_02: is there a different body sense for you?
1:03:31
SPEAKER_02: Or a different sense?
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: It depends.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: It depends on what I'm performing.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so it depends on the role.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:03:44
I would personally also agree with both of you about how I
1:03:53
experience identity.
1:03:54
I think what all the different modalities and schools of
1:04:09
thought are pointing to is this
1:04:12
thing that for me feels like you know that not the identity but
1:04:16
that sense of self
1:04:17
like your your more authentic sense of self to me is more of a
1:04:26
like an like an a
1:04:29
sensation internally like an energetic frequency or energy and
1:04:38
then all of the
1:04:39
SPEAKER_02: parts
1:04:41
and roles and or roles or aspects of me kind of make up the
1:04:48
repertoire of who I am
1:04:50
SPEAKER_02: in this physical embodiment,
1:04:53
but there's still this thread of who I am in essence in terms
1:05:04
of like the frequency
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: vibration.
1:05:10
which I can feel more clearly when I am well regulated and have
1:05:18
slept well and I'm
1:05:19
SPEAKER_02: not going through stressful life events.
1:05:22
And it is more difficult to see when parts are acting out or
1:05:26
shit's happening.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_02: And there's still a spectrum within that frequency, of course.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_02: And of course,
1:05:38
there's all these external variables that can shift the whole
1:05:41
thing because we are
1:05:43
SPEAKER_02: porous and we're interacting with a whole matrix of stuff.
1:05:51
And some of the parts are way better at interacting with
1:05:54
society and people.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_02: And there are even parts that are really way better than my true essence
1:06:02
SPEAKER_02: potentially at,
1:06:03
SPEAKER_02: let's say,
1:06:03
SPEAKER_02: studying and learning.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_02: Because maybe if I...
1:06:11
SPEAKER_02: My hunch is,
1:06:12
SPEAKER_02: and this is not verified yet fully,
1:06:15
SPEAKER_02: my hunch is if I was just me,
1:06:17
SPEAKER_02: I would just be in nature or on the ocean or just like...
1:06:29
SPEAKER_02: walking around and having fun and just experiencing the world.
1:06:34
I don't know that I would be doing a lot of the things that do
1:06:38
still bring me
1:06:39
SPEAKER_02: pleasure and feel very grounding,
1:06:41
SPEAKER_02: that I would still be doing those things.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_01: But I think it still brings us back to the conversation of Forrest Gump.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_01: Because,
1:06:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
1:06:57
SPEAKER_01: like,
1:06:58
SPEAKER_01: if you were just you or,
1:07:00
SPEAKER_01: like,
1:07:01
SPEAKER_01: if I was just me without all my parts,
1:07:07
SPEAKER_01: like,
1:07:07
that have to perform the role because they have learned to
1:07:13
perform this role due to
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: all,
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: like,
1:07:18
SPEAKER_01: my upbringing and all my life experiences...
1:07:26
SPEAKER_01: If I were just me, I would be Forrest Gump.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
1:07:30
SPEAKER_01: I would shrine through my essence to the world,
1:07:35
but my operating system would be much simpler because what
1:07:40
brings complexity also
1:07:43
SPEAKER_01: brings all these parts that need to fit,
1:07:45
SPEAKER_01: they need to adapt,
1:07:47
SPEAKER_01: and they need to learn to perform.
1:07:49
SPEAKER_01: It's inevitable.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_02: We're actually in agreement.
1:08:03
I must be in some weird space today or something because I
1:08:06
don't seem to be coming
1:08:09
SPEAKER_02: across or registering with the two of you in the way that I intend.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_02: Did it sound like I was not in agreement with the point you were making?
1:08:21
SPEAKER_02: I...
1:08:27
SPEAKER_02: Not that we're looking for agreement here.
1:08:29
Yeah,
1:08:29
no,
1:08:29
but I'm not sure that I'm arguing because I'm disagreeing with
1:08:36
you.
1:08:36
It's more the reflection that is brewing inside of me in
1:08:47
relationship to the concept of
1:08:51
like true self or natural self and what is it and if it's if it
1:08:57
exists at all
1:09:01
because like I was thinking okay so like this frequency I do
1:09:11
agree that for example
1:09:12
SPEAKER_01: in in my experience there are circumstances
1:09:17
When my inner experience of what I'm living through gives me
1:09:24
this sense of ease that...
1:09:29
know like all the interactions are coming easy for me like i'm
1:09:34
i feel like the fish
1:09:35
in the water so i don't need to make an effort to to perform to
1:09:42
put on the mask to
1:09:44
to get preoccupied do i fit or do not fit etc so like do i
1:09:51
perform my role well
1:09:53
So it feels like,
1:09:54
okay,
1:09:55
I'm in the flow,
1:09:56
I'm in my natural environment,
1:09:59
everything is good.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that in these circumstances,
1:10:09
SPEAKER_01: when I feel this way,
1:10:12
what actually feels this way is not one of my parts and not the
1:10:17
whole system.
1:10:21
So,
1:10:22
like,
1:10:23
yes,
1:10:24
there are circumstances that are better fit for a certain part
1:10:29
of me.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_01: And...
1:10:32
For certain roles that I have learned to perform,
1:10:37
they are coming more easier for me.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_01: It seems that they're more natural rather than the others.
1:10:47
I had to put on a lot of efforts during my life to perfect this
1:10:55
role,
1:10:56
whatever that role is.
1:11:01
But still,
1:11:03
in the end,
1:11:04
I think my natural self,
1:11:06
my true self is the whole system.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: So those all parts,
1:11:14
including those who perform and have to make the effort and
1:11:19
they have learned,
1:11:20
SPEAKER_01: etc.,
1:11:26
SPEAKER_01: But we do want, I think, I believe, we all want things to come easier.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe we don't.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_01: Again, depends on the parts that are active.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_02: I want things to be easier.
1:11:46
I wonder even if those things that we're trying to name
1:11:51
somehow,
1:11:52
whether...
1:11:53
SPEAKER_01: our self,
1:11:54
SPEAKER_01: true identity or being,
1:11:57
whether even to most of us they're accessible in the usual
1:12:03
state of consciousness.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking now maybe not.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_01: However relaxed and present and at peace and at ease we may be,
1:12:26
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really is now I'm thinking about it.
1:12:30
It's not necessarily an indicator that now this is whatever my
1:12:37
being and my soul and my place.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_01: Maybe not because actually we are
1:12:52
SPEAKER_01: drifting always towards those states of ease or flow,
1:13:02
SPEAKER_01: which is not to say it's bad because we are flowy beings.
1:13:08
SPEAKER_01: But would I consciously come to associate my being, soul or whatever
1:13:23
SPEAKER_01: with a really, really difficult, shattering experience?
1:13:30
SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
1:13:32
Because in my human conditioning,
1:13:33
I would go for the thing that's brighter and more pleasant.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_01: And yet,
1:13:45
SPEAKER_01: maybe the most difficult experience that we go through,
1:13:50
SPEAKER_01: these are the experiences that our souls need the most.
1:13:55
SPEAKER_01: Totally, yeah.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_01: That part I cognitively agree.
1:13:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:14:11
my um perception of identity has greatly shifted and widened
1:14:17
ever since um i
1:14:21
experimented with what shape-shifting could be like and it
1:14:27
might be a little bit
1:14:28
far out there to bring this uh aspect into this conversation at
1:14:31
the moment but come
1:14:34
SPEAKER_01: on actress do shape-shifting shape-shifting is
1:14:37
SPEAKER_01: through a recognized thing.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_02: So that's true.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_02: But when I played with shape shifting with birds,
1:14:44
SPEAKER_02: and even some animals,
1:14:48
SPEAKER_02: and I was able to physically feel their bodies in my system.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_02: It's certainly
1:15:00
made things even less clear than they were already about who
1:15:08
are we actually,
1:15:10
SPEAKER_02: period,
1:15:11
SPEAKER_02: outside even of the question of identity.
1:15:17
But certainly I still prescribe to it being a culmination of
1:15:23
things and also like a repertoire.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_02: And I want to identity.
1:15:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes, the identity identity.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
1:15:44
I think that you could still be identified on frequency level
1:15:49
as the as the as the
1:15:52
SPEAKER_02: sum of all the different parts and aspects that make up you so.
1:15:59
I think in that sense,
1:16:00
I think there is an energetic frequency in terms of identity.
1:16:06
But I don't think that identity is singular or static at any
1:16:13
point in time.
1:16:13
And I actually even like the fact that identity is not static
1:16:18
and it's fluid
1:16:19
SPEAKER_02: because you get to be,
1:16:21
SPEAKER_02: depending on how self-regulated you are,
1:16:24
SPEAKER_02: you get to be whoever the fuck you want to be at that moment.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the mastery.
1:16:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
1:16:32
like meaning you get to call forward whatever you feel like or
1:16:37
suits the situation
1:16:39
because you've got a well-developed and well-refined repertoire
1:16:44
of all kinds of
1:16:45
SPEAKER_02: different things that make up you,
1:16:47
including your ability to call things in that's not necessarily
1:16:51
internal to your
1:16:52
SPEAKER_02: experience.
1:16:53
this this thing that we are at the moment from from other
1:16:58
places right yeah that's
1:17:01
my goal i'm not there yet yeah something interesting is coming
1:17:07
up it's from another
1:17:11
space yeah from a book about soil i'm reading and humus is the
1:17:19
fertile part of the
1:17:21
SPEAKER_01: soil
1:17:23
actually it cannot be well it can be identified but it's they
1:17:30
have found out that
1:17:32
it's very hard to give a scientific definition to what what
1:17:36
humus is and it's like
1:17:38
with snowflakes uh there are no two single molecules it seems
1:17:45
uh that are the same
1:17:48
SPEAKER_01: in humus wow what does it have to do with
1:17:53
SPEAKER_01: Because I was like, oh, wow, that is crazy.
1:17:57
SPEAKER_01: I didn't recognize, I didn't realize that.
1:18:00
And then I talked to someone who is a forest scientist and just
1:18:03
said,
1:18:03
yes,
1:18:04
yes.
1:18:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah, of course.
1:18:06
SPEAKER_01: Well,
1:18:06
SPEAKER_01: the thing is that all those molecules,
1:18:09
they're molecules of beings that died and that's why they're
1:18:15
all different.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:20
yeah i mean it sounds like you know a simple thing to think
1:18:24
about for me it was a
1:18:26
huge revelation also first like and it's just talking about the
1:18:34
uniqueness uh yeah
1:18:35
i do believe it's there that's super cool thanks for sharing
1:18:40
that wow i love it so
1:18:45
SPEAKER_01: how scary
1:18:47
SPEAKER_01: We will be humans.
1:18:48
SPEAKER_01: We are all a part of humans.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_02: But also how scary for the human identity.
1:18:57
SPEAKER_02: When the scope expands to that degree,
1:19:01
SPEAKER_02: there is a part of me that's like,
1:19:06
SPEAKER_02: it was already so big and now it's even bigger.
1:19:11
I wonder if that was your part too in the beginning that was
1:19:14
resisting all the different parts.
1:19:21
SPEAKER_02: Say it again, Pauline?
1:19:23
SPEAKER_02: My part was resisting... What?
1:19:26
I just identified that there was a small part in me when you
1:19:30
talked about the humus
1:19:31
SPEAKER_02: and the fact that it's just like all different molecules.
1:19:34
SPEAKER_02: That part was like,
1:19:35
SPEAKER_02: oh my God,
1:19:36
we already are dealing with such a breadth of stuff and now
1:19:39
it's even more
1:19:40
SPEAKER_02: expanded.
1:19:43
that part that likes structure and likes containment and that
1:19:47
likes certainty,
1:19:49
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:19:49
SPEAKER_02: that part got activated.
1:19:51
And I was wondering if that was the part that you also had
1:19:54
activated in the
1:19:55
beginning when we started talking about all the different parts
1:19:58
internally that
1:19:59
SPEAKER_02: have to be,
1:19:59
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:20:00
SPEAKER_02: that need to be...
1:20:00
Might have been an opposite part that doesn't like structure
1:20:05
and containment,
1:20:06
SPEAKER_01: but I don't know.
1:20:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
1:20:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, from that?
1:20:11
SPEAKER_02: I didn't even see it from that angle for you.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
1:20:15
Wow,
1:20:15
this conversation is really going very differently than I
1:20:19
originally thought.
1:20:22
SPEAKER_02: As they tend to do.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_02: Like as if you guys are messing with me on purpose.
1:20:30
SPEAKER_02: Okay, we don't have a lot of time left.
1:20:38
I want to ask these last three questions before we start
1:20:41
wrapping up and just see
1:20:44
SPEAKER_02: what comes up.
1:20:45
SPEAKER_02: And we don't have to make it a long discussion.
1:20:47
We could just briefly touch on it and maybe we'll do some more
1:20:51
of this again in another episode.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_02: Here we go.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_02: So what old identity is dissolving for you right now?
1:21:09
SPEAKER_01: What identity is doing what?
1:21:12
SPEAKER_02: What old identity is dissolving for you right now?
1:21:18
SPEAKER_02: What new identity is forming but not fully there?
1:21:24
SPEAKER_02: And what emerges when you're quiet, unproductive, or undefined?
1:21:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, for me, it's the same answer to all these questions.
1:21:42
SPEAKER_01: And it has to do with value.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_01: Allowing myself not to have value.
1:21:55
SPEAKER_02: So that's what's dissolving.
1:21:57
SPEAKER_02: A sense of reality in the world.
1:22:02
SPEAKER_02: And do you have a sense of what new...
1:22:09
SPEAKER_01: What in theory I hope that should emerge,
1:22:16
SPEAKER_01: that is my hope,
1:22:17
SPEAKER_01: is exactly this freedom to assume any identity that I want at any point.
1:22:26
Okay,
1:22:27
now to have the freedom to choose from the repertoire of
1:22:32
identities at my...
1:22:41
SPEAKER_01: But this part that needs to be valuable doesn't want to dissolve.
1:22:52
SPEAKER_01: It's a very difficult process for me.
1:23:03
SPEAKER_02: I hear you.
1:23:05
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I am also in some ways on a similar journey.
1:23:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, like a lot of things are brewing.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_01: One of the big ones is definitely what's called
1:23:32
SPEAKER_01: exploring my wild self and peeking with curiosity.
1:23:46
It's just what is there beyond the world,
1:23:57
the Western world that I grew up in and
1:24:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, almost Western.
1:24:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually now,
1:24:04
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate the fact that I grew up in Russia,
1:24:11
SPEAKER_01: not quite like in a Western European or country or the States.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_01: Because it was less less civilized, I guess.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_01: And less groomed.
1:24:31
with all the concepts that make the world for us so predictable
1:24:43
and create this
1:24:44
SPEAKER_01: expectation of control and make us think that we know things.
1:24:52
So I guess it's even hard to put it in words what is going on,
1:25:02
what is brewing right now.
1:25:05
And then one more thing I would say that is more clear cut and
1:25:13
clearly defined is
1:25:16
SPEAKER_01: my idea about myself.
1:25:20
as if I should always be learning be like this like how do I
1:25:37
even put it like be
1:25:46
SPEAKER_01: enthusiastic about
1:25:51
things like specifically i like to give you some context i'm
1:25:56
now thinking about
1:25:58
this um other podcast project that i'm doing interviewing
1:26:01
people and like one thing
1:26:05
i'm finding out is that i find myself really well there's a
1:26:10
wonderful people that
1:26:11
SPEAKER_01: i'm interviewing and they're also very knowledgeable but um
1:26:16
guess i also have a quite broad context in what we're exploring
1:26:21
and i find myself
1:26:23
constantly um looking down at myself somehow i don't know and
1:26:30
so one of the things
1:26:33
that i am inviting into my field from all the beings and all
1:26:40
the elements is just
1:26:46
like sensing and holding myself with more friendliness and
1:26:56
respect,
1:26:57
I guess.
1:27:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:27:02
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the best thing I've ever heard you say.
1:27:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
1:27:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:27:08
SPEAKER_02: Out of all the things that I said?
1:27:09
SPEAKER_02: Out of all the things you said, that one is the best for me.
1:27:19
SPEAKER_01: Sounds triggering.
1:27:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
1:27:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, because that part that has to be more valuable than that.
1:27:31
SPEAKER_01: I just had to mess with you, okay?
1:27:34
SPEAKER_01: Ah, you're messing with me.
1:27:40
I'm all about being more friendly to ourselves and more
1:27:43
welcoming and really
1:27:44
SPEAKER_02: honoring of everything that we are and everything we've been through.
1:27:48
SPEAKER_02: To me, that is way more valuable.
1:27:52
SPEAKER_02: If we have to use that word,
1:27:54
then all the knowledge and all the data and all of the
1:27:59
intellectual capacity and
1:28:01
SPEAKER_02: whatever else it is that is valuable in our human realm.
1:28:07
SPEAKER_02: So I love that for you.
1:28:09
SPEAKER_02: Because also if you're more welcoming and honoring of yourself,
1:28:13
SPEAKER_02: we get to interact with you from a totally different energetic space too.
1:28:17
SPEAKER_02: So we also benefit.
1:28:19
SPEAKER_01: From a totally different energetic space.
1:28:23
SPEAKER_02: Wow, you are on top of it today.
1:28:29
SPEAKER_02: Not a total.
1:28:31
SPEAKER_02: Just a little bit.
1:28:33
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for that.
1:28:35
SPEAKER_02: That's not what I meant.
1:28:38
SPEAKER_02: I needed this tweak.
1:28:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
1:28:43
SPEAKER_02: I apologize.
1:28:44
SPEAKER_02: I didn't do a good job.
1:28:45
SPEAKER_02: Well, actually...
1:28:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to go back to what I said.
1:28:52
It is going to be totally different because the more welcoming
1:28:57
and the more
1:28:59
SPEAKER_02: honoring you are of yourself,
1:29:03
SPEAKER_02: you will be resonating differently.
1:29:06
And so if the resonance changes,
1:29:08
yeah,
1:29:09
it is a totally different experience of you.
1:29:12
SPEAKER_02: Not in the way that you were reacting, but I mean, like tracking...
1:29:19
SPEAKER_02: There's the shifts and the changes.
1:29:21
SPEAKER_02: Even a subtle shift can be a big one.
1:29:26
SPEAKER_02: That's where I sit today, okay?
1:29:32
SPEAKER_02: Does that sound okay?
1:29:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, where are you?
1:29:34
SPEAKER_02: I want to make sure we're tracking.
1:29:39
SPEAKER_02: Are we tracking?
1:29:41
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
1:29:42
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like a personal comment.
1:29:44
SPEAKER_02: It was more about how I experience things.
1:29:49
SPEAKER_02: Are you asking me?
1:29:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes, of course I'm asking you.
1:29:56
SPEAKER_01: Well,
1:30:02
i mean things do come up as you see these things i'm not sure
1:30:06
if it's the right
1:30:08
time to bring them up like totally new energetic frequency
1:30:15
because we decided that
1:30:17
all there is already energetic frequency that we are born with
1:30:21
and we're like
1:30:22
SPEAKER_01: recognized with right so it can only
1:30:26
undergo some shifts right well okay but so the way i'm seeing
1:30:31
it is from the
1:30:31
perspective of our culture and where we come from because you
1:30:34
already brought up
1:30:35
russia being russian in terms of origin uh being women from
1:30:41
that culture uh having
1:30:43
SPEAKER_02: the experiences we've we've had uh immigrating all of that uh
1:30:49
creates a combo of things,
1:30:52
of aspects of us,
1:30:53
of identities,
1:30:54
of parts that may in total feel
1:30:59
Different,
1:30:59
very different than when you say I'm more welcoming and
1:31:03
honoring of myself.
1:31:04
That is literally almost like a confirmed elite of the things
1:31:10
we came in with.
1:31:11
So it is quite a different frequency for where we come from to
1:31:16
be loving and
1:31:17
SPEAKER_02: honoring of ourselves and accepting of ourselves as we are.
1:31:23
SPEAKER_02: to me in my frame of reference.
1:31:25
SPEAKER_02: Like if some of my family members were to step into this,
1:31:31
SPEAKER_02: which is actually quite radical,
1:31:32
SPEAKER_02: maybe not in your experience,
1:31:34
SPEAKER_02: but in mine,
1:31:36
SPEAKER_02: they would be quite different.
1:31:39
SPEAKER_02: And it could be such a subtle shift just to be a little bit softer,
1:31:42
SPEAKER_02: a little bit more welcoming and accepting of yourself.
1:31:46
SPEAKER_02: That would change the way they render.
1:31:54
SPEAKER_02: So that's what I mean.
1:31:56
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
1:31:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
1:31:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't see it as related to nationality.
1:32:02
I do see my trace or whatever energetic frequency or signature
1:32:11
being unique.
1:32:12
SPEAKER_01: But that particular thing, welcoming, I don't trace it to ethnic origins.
1:32:23
SPEAKER_02: Because you feel like where we come from,
1:32:25
SPEAKER_02: it would be the norm to be welcoming and accepting of ourselves.
1:32:30
SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like nowhere is it.
1:32:33
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:32:34
SPEAKER_01: And even more so,
1:32:37
it is not the norm in countries obsessed with productivity to a
1:32:43
higher degree than
1:32:45
SPEAKER_01: they are in Russia.
1:32:50
like the states and western europe this is where people
1:32:54
literally just um suffer
1:33:00
with themselves i think more than in russia yeah and that's
1:33:06
that's i in my mind i
1:33:08
agree with you but in my lived body experience i can't
1:33:12
reference them like
1:33:13
SPEAKER_02: americans or europeans because i am
1:33:17
SPEAKER_02: I am something else.
1:33:19
I come from a different set of stuff that makes my experience
1:33:23
more of an embodied
1:33:23
SPEAKER_02: experience,
1:33:24
SPEAKER_02: and that's where I'm trying to speak from.
1:33:26
SPEAKER_02: The rest of it would be me making it up.
1:33:28
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what it's like for the American embodiment, let's say.
1:33:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
1:33:33
SPEAKER_02: It's a very different energetic frequency as well as in other countries.
1:33:38
SPEAKER_02: So that's where I was coming from.
1:33:39
But yes,
1:33:40
most likely you're right on the surface,
1:33:44
but I can't speak to it.
1:33:46
SPEAKER_02: I can only speak to where I come from.
1:33:47
Well,
1:33:47
and whatever we say in this podcast,
1:33:51
it's not because we know for sure,
1:33:53
right?
1:33:53
SPEAKER_01: But this is, you know, we don't cite scientific studies here.
1:33:58
SPEAKER_01: And that's,
1:33:59
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
1:33:59
that's my experience has been knowing a lot of people from the
1:34:04
States and also from
1:34:05
SPEAKER_01: Europe,
1:34:05
SPEAKER_01: specifically from Germany,
1:34:07
SPEAKER_01: that,
1:34:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:34:10
SPEAKER_01: they're
1:34:11
Many of them have been having it harder than people that I know
1:34:15
from Russia.
1:34:19
SPEAKER_02: Around this welcoming and honoring yourself, you mean?
1:34:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, interesting.
1:34:24
SPEAKER_02: I actually want to know more about that.
1:34:26
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't aware.
1:34:28
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for bringing that in.
1:34:30
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:34:32
SPEAKER_02: On that note...
1:34:35
If we were to do a self-review of this episode and be
1:34:40
transparent with the
1:34:41
SPEAKER_02: audience,
1:34:42
SPEAKER_02: we would probably say this was,
1:34:46
SPEAKER_02: for me,
1:34:47
SPEAKER_02: less flowy,
1:34:48
SPEAKER_02: although there was still transient at some points.
1:34:52
SPEAKER_02: Didn't go... Yes?
1:34:55
SPEAKER_01: I object.
1:34:56
SPEAKER_01: I would say that it wasn't flowy.
1:34:58
SPEAKER_01: I just said that it flowed in a different direction.
1:35:01
We didn't talk about the question of not knowing,
1:35:05
but we did talk about identity.
1:35:07
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
1:35:08
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I have to reframe.
1:35:10
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
1:35:11
SPEAKER_02: There was a flow.
1:35:12
SPEAKER_02: It's just that as I was observing it,
1:35:14
SPEAKER_02: it was unclear to me,
1:35:17
SPEAKER_02: and there were also some stop signs along the way in it.
1:35:22
SPEAKER_02: and
1:35:24
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to life.
1:35:25
SPEAKER_02: Yes, welcome to life.
1:35:29
I want to leave us with three more questions just to take with
1:35:34
us into our week,
1:35:35
SPEAKER_02: into our life,
1:35:37
SPEAKER_02: just for the hell of it,
1:35:38
SPEAKER_02: for the fun of it.
1:35:41
SPEAKER_02: If you couldn't be someone for a month,
1:35:46
SPEAKER_02: so no identity,
1:35:48
SPEAKER_02: if you could not have an identity,
1:35:50
SPEAKER_02: what would life be like for you?
1:35:55
SPEAKER_02: What identity will you try on if there were zero consequences?
1:36:00
SPEAKER_02: I like that one.
1:36:04
SPEAKER_02: What if identity wasn't a fixed thing, but a movement?
1:36:11
SPEAKER_02: Like in a symphony, there are different movements.
1:36:19
SPEAKER_02: And with that, maybe...
1:36:25
SPEAKER_02: Maybe not knowing is not emptiness.
1:36:27
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it is a state that allows us to flow.
1:36:32
SPEAKER_02: Again,
1:36:34
where identity loosens and there's less effort and maybe
1:36:39
something more wise moves
1:36:41
SPEAKER_02: within us.
1:36:48
SPEAKER_02: Maybe who we're becoming emerges...
1:36:55
SPEAKER_02: Not from clarity per se,
1:36:57
but potentially from the quality of the state we're able to
1:37:03
return to again and
1:37:06
SPEAKER_02: again.
1:37:10
Definitely has been a very interesting conversation from my
1:37:15
observer self.
1:37:17
SPEAKER_02: So I thank you from my observer self to your observer selves.
1:37:20
Thank you and thank you for all the identities that showed up
1:37:23
today and all the
1:37:24
SPEAKER_02: parts and the forest and the garden and the...
1:37:29
SPEAKER_02: And Forrest Gump.
1:37:31
SPEAKER_02: Forrest Gump.
1:37:35
SPEAKER_02: And that's it.
1:37:37
SPEAKER_02: That's the end.
1:37:38
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for joining us.
1:37:41
SPEAKER_02: Please share what you thought about what emerged today.
1:37:45
SPEAKER_02: We'd love to hear from you.
1:37:46
SPEAKER_02: Until next time, Paulina, Yulia and Irina.
1:37:51
SPEAKER_02: Bye-bye.
1:37:52
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
1:37:52
SPEAKER_00: Bye.
1:37:53
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
1:37:54
SPEAKER_00: How was it for you?
1:37:56
We believe that the more people experience group flow together,
1:38:01
the better off we all are.
1:38:03
SPEAKER_00: More connected, more creative, more alive.
1:38:07
SPEAKER_00: So, let's expand the field.
1:38:09
SPEAKER_01: If this episode resonated with you, help us spread the word.
1:38:16
SPEAKER_01: Share it with a friend, leave a comment or give us a rating.
1:38:20
SPEAKER_01: We love you.
1:38:23
SPEAKER_02: Do subscribe so you'll know when the next experiment comes out.
1:38:26
SPEAKER_02: You can also connect with us on our Life & Flow group, Substack.
1:38:30
SPEAKER_02: We'd love to hear from you.
1:38:32
SPEAKER_02: Let's keep flowing together.