Latest / Breaking the ICE / Episode 8 - Lost in Translation? Medical Assistance, Language, and AI with Lexxika

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Episode 8 - Lost in Translation? Medical Assistance, Language, and AI with Lexxika · Breaking the ICE

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome back to season one, episode eight of the Breaking The Guys Podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: And on today's episode, I am very pleased to be joined by a couple of very familiar guests.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to uh get straight into it with them.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um please join me in welcoming Tom Boole and James Austin from Lexica.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Tom, James, how are you guys doing?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, hi.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're doing great.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Elliot.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Good to see you again as well.
• 0:35
  unknown: It is.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, Elliot, doing great.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Doing good, doing good here.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a long time.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's been far too long.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we are speaking for Tom and I we say that we uh we've both missed you, I think, over the over the summer.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's for sure.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I I know, it's it's been strange, right?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we saw each other like almost every week for months on end.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um various different parts of the Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So what have you guys been up to over the summer?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's just been busy.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've both been pretty busy.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think um both of us have been here there and everywhere.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I just got back from a a week away in Menorca with fam, which has been great.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um we back in July is my wife's birth 30th birthday, so we uh made a little trip away then as well, and we're going away again next week to a little um theme park, uh, kiddies theme park, my little boy's telling too.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So summer has been very, very good.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's been extremely hot as well.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: How's yours been top?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um pr pretty similar, really.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's it is funny that you this industry, you always see everyone.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's a chunk of the year when you're catching up with everyone, and then summer, no one talks to anyone, everyone's head down.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's the busiest bit of the year, professionally speaking, but it's also when you want to get in all your own travelling and enjoy the bit of life you get for yourself without conferences all over the place.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've spent uh four weeks of the summer, at least in France, I think, which was um I would say a baptism of fire of summer is just unbelievably hot weather there.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and actually witnessing that first hand was quite something.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um went away on a little trip to Finland as well at the beginning of the summer, which is really, really lovely.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um first time I'd ever been anywhere near Finland and absolutely loved it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and otherwise, yeah, just head down working and trying to spend any I I mean you you you know this about me already, Elliot, but any any spare time, which is apparently a thing that people have.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I try and spend playing either tennis, squash, badminton, or table tennis at all times, really.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's the rest of my life when I'm not with kids in France or uh working.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: All four sports at the same time, Tom.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: If I possibly can.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: What's your trip to Finland?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's exactly what Finland was overall.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is that why you went?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is that why you went to Finland?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's this crazy sport that I've got into called racket lawn, which is like the endurance sport version of playing racket sports, essentially.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So over one over one short event, you'll play um table tennis, then badminton, then squash, and then tennis, all against the same opponent to try and assert yourself as thoroughly better or worse than that other person.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and and I the the order matters there, right?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean you could.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you start from the smallest rackets and go up to the biggest ones.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Got it, got it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a good way to describe it that doesn't uh uh diminish any of the sports that you mentioned.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you start with the really, really rubbish one that that no one should play at all, noble tennis, and move on to a proper sport like tennis.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say the easiest, but it's a good thing that you oh well it's the one where I get beaten the most.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, fair enough.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um how is Finland?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have any night time or was it just unending daylight?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: We were there during the well, the the white nights period, so it was crazy.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've never I've never experienced that before, but it was at at kind of midnight, 1 a.m.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: It looked like what I would normally expect for about 7 to 8 p.m.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: here.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it gets dusky, the sun gets really, really low in the sky.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: It got it got kind of dark like you'd turn the headlights on on your car, but it wasn't you didn't need a torch to go outside ever.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: You it was it never felt night time.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was really cool.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hard to sleep, but I had a similar but opposite experience once.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I got stuck in Iceland in December and there was no daylight, and it was bizarre.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think you both know that I'm not uh the best sleeper in the world.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: I remember says the guide on a podcast at 530 in the morning.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I remember waking up, I remember waking up uh at whatever time um to go outside uh to like catch the flight that I needed to catch.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I just couldn't figure out and I was like, okay, well I'll go back to sleep.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got up how whatever time later, and it was like being on another planet, just going back outside, and it was the exact same thing.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was so odd.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be hard.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna get hard to deal with after a while.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's probably novelty for a few days, but they would it would get boring pretty quickly, I think, wouldn't it?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it sounds like both of you have been uh traveling in your travel hiatus, which uh yeah.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: I have not.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have not.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have I have uh had two feet firmly planted on the ground since uh since the middle of July.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wow, right.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've been enjoying a tremendous amount of time at home, which I don't usually get these long stretches, which is great.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh kids are off school, so it's just nice to be home.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I enjoy a lot of time.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds doing all of the honeydew list tasks, uh building things at my house and you know, tending the garden.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I have been uh well, actually, Tom, before I uh play my cards face up, how is your how is your training going for our big race in October?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: How is my training going?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I have spent so with all this traveling over summer and things, particularly spending a lot of time with the kids.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't doing an awful lot.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I came off about six, maybe even eight weeks of um there was we had the conference in Canada, and then I went straight into time away in Finland with mates, then I was off for four weeks with the kids.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I got thoroughly out of shape.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I spent the last kind of two to three weeks, probably probably 15 hours a week probably of running or playing racket sports so I'm desperately trying.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'll be okay, but I'm I'm I'm I'm never gonna be anywhere near you.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'll I'll bring I'll bring binoculars so I can check out how how badly you how dumb how well you're beating me.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, 15 hours a week is a lot, so I'm I think it's much more than I'm doing.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna say I actually haven't been running all that much either.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um well I do I I do like one to two long runs a week.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I joined uh I started doing CrossFit again.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, right and I've just been I've just been obsessed with it like every day.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Every day.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I haven't been I haven't really like your body's sore all the time.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: You never feel like going out for a long run.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I I kind of like I'm doing the Sunday long runs as as runners do.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then I try to get out like one other time a week for I don't know, like a like sort of like a 10k to 12k middle distance.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's it.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: So like if you look at weekly distances, yeah, but but I mean training for a long race, it's not you're not getting kilometers in, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're not really building.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not it's not that long.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm gonna identify you at all.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Elliot's got Elliot's got all of this in in just in muscle memory and in the locker completely.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna absolutely nail it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so not worried about you in the slightest.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: But you always you always want to do better than before, right?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: You always want to you always want to, you know.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I always want to do better than you, I don't know, particularly.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Which is no longer gonna happen.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Those days those days are long gone.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So look, I mean, it sounds like we're both out of shape and have a long uh ways to go here.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um the race is in two months.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: I know I keep getting the emails from the from the right, like yeah, hey, two months to go.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: How's your training going?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: You should be doing this.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we didn't invite you guys on just to to talk about uh nothing, which uh we could do, by the way.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah um we could fill a couple hours of nonsense, yeah.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um but so I guess first and foremost, um Tom, do you want to introduce uh Lexica and then you and James can talk a little bit about um the business and uh where you guys fit in the travel insurance landscape?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sure, okay.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'll give I'll give it a little start.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: James has probably done this whole thing so many more times than me in the last few years, so maybe he's the guy that should be doing this.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: But Lexica is a languages industry uh service provider, which which essentially is a fancy way of saying translation company, I suppose.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've been working in the insurance industry.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I've been personally working in the insurance industry since like 1997, by accident, really, but properly with the assistance industry since about 2007, and Lexica was um incorporated as a translation company specifically specializing in the insurance industry and and really specifically specializing in the assistance industry in about 2017.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we've been kicking about the sidelines of the insurance industry for quite some time.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what what we really do our our flagship product is the provision of um very high quality medical translations predominantly of medical reports, police reports, crucial crucial case documents for live cases to the assistance industry.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and James, how do you fit into the puzzle?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no worries.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I I've worked for Tom in some version or another since um 2014?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 2014.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So a long, long time.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was brand new.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh brand new.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I joined um the uh integral languages as it was back then, we're providing translation services to um all sorts of industries, um all sorts of whether it be international brands, whether it be law firms, whether it be housing associations here in the UK, um, and everything in between.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and at the time we had a small book business that was focused on the um primarily the IPMI space more than the assistance back then.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um then once upon a time we had a had a prospect come along with a set of very specific needs around um needing the transition of medical reports very, very quickly, at high quality, 24 hours a day.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and we don't know where they're going to be coming.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and add on to the top of that that the documents themselves are generally pretty ugly.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're scans, their photos, um, you often get people's flip-flops in the background, that kind of stuff.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're non-standard, very ugly documents.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we we built a server specifically for the needs of that one prospect who said, Yeah, absolutely we can help.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we can we can tick these boxes, let's rub with it.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there it from there it kind of were grown organically through referrals.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, as you all know, Elliot and everyone else who likely you're listening, the travel insurance assistance space is is pretty small.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: People move around and we were just kind of taking along with them um as they move from organization to organization.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just kind of grown from there.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: We've been able to been able to scale based on the number of cases that we then handle um and the number of clients that we now service, um, and ditched the the generalist aspect of of what we were doing.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And like Tom mentioned in 2017, just went full steam ahead with um travel insurance and primarily the assistance pieces that we're working on.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I I mean without stating the obvious, travel insurance, travel assistance, obviously it necessitates language translation because of the cross-border nature of it.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess what are some of the and and Tom, you alluded to some of the um complexities of servicing the market.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the other sort of unique aspects of supporting travel insurance and travel assistance from your perspective?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean, irrespective of you know, I guess the the global nature of it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, I think um you just you won't find many people outside of the industry who even know what assistance is and what it's really all about, and that understand the challenges of an assistance company.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So simply having our feet really well in the industry gives us a pretty unique position, um, particularly among the language services community, of actually having a bloody clue what on earth we're on about, frankly, because most people don't.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: When we talk to other language industry businesses, they like, you you do what for who I um I don't really get it.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like a nightmare.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck with that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well done.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so but the the reality is that if to to talk from our own background, to talk about a language services company, there is there are a few things that that they all hate, which is really, really short documents because there's no money to be made in it at all.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really urgent documents because it's stressful, you'll fail and get in trouble and you end up making difficult promises at the end time.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then really, really complex documents.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: So things that are highly medical, or highly legal, or highly have high consequence if they're not 101% perfect.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and what all of our clients routinely come to us with every single day normally contain all three of those horrible things that everyone hates.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when with the rest of the wider market would generally look at most of our clients and go, don't really want you, thanks.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is this is a really bad bit of business for us, and you'll probably be a damaging client.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then chuck on top of it the need for data security and for the rigour of transfer of documents between them and us.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got this kind of perfect storm of of complexity.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I suspect most travel insurers and assistance companies, etc., really have no idea actually just how how challenging their language requirements really are when you look at the the the breadth of languages that can possibly be requested at any time, the absence of any prior notice at any point in time, and then the the entire possibility that they may have one case today in Thai that needs to be uh handled absolutely urgently with a completely tested, proven, and known resource, and they may not go anywhere near Thai for the next nine months.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I might you know they they they might be asking someone to completely scale up and provide all of this service for something that they won't then need, maybe never again.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so you when you really understand the whole kind of bigger picture, it if we had one insurance client, it would put us out of business and it would be a horrendous nightmare.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see why no one else would want them.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we we quickly kind of cottoned onto this and realized like we we need volume to do this.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's got to be lots of them or none of them, really.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we gritted our teeth with with the first client who really did keep us pretty busy and and stretched us almost to breaking point.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was very, very difficult.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't I don't know if we can name them, James.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's not, but it was one very, very big um assistant brand that everyone will have heard of, and um suddenly started firing us these requests at 1am, 4am, waking me up on the phone.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was it was sufficiently difficult that um my my business partner of that time threw in the towel and said, This is the wrong way to go, don't do this, you're you're you're you're gonna fail.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is a hugely it's a stupid direction to go in.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it was at exactly the same time that that James was just coming into his own and ready to really step up and and we've really never looked back.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's I think if I know your question was what makes it special and what makes it unique as an industry.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I've probably tried to answer that, but really what I've said what makes it so hard to service.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it you need to have a uh an awareness of what you're going into, I think.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's not for the faint of heart.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um there are there are so many unattractive uh external factors to it, and yet underlying all of that, I I I there's a passion to the travel insurance industry.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's there's almost this mission-driven um you know, driving force for everybody.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, insurers obviously, you know, insurers are insurers, they have to hit certain ratios, but even those insurers, I mean, you know, there still is this sort of ethos within them.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: And and it is, that's I think that's why it's a lot of the same people that you see over and over again, because they have a they have a passion for travel, and then that passion for travel, you know, sort of emanates throughout the their business, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's just a a passion for travel as well.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's um obviously we Tom and I see the worst case scenarios and then the bits in between.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: We don't see the cancellations, the baggage claims, all that kind of stuff.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: What we see is a real human element to to what to travel.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you're meant to be on holiday on a business trip, um and the what one of the worst things can that can happen to you, happen to you in that environment, right?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're in a foreign country, you don't know what's going on, you can have to get treatment for whatever condition you may have.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: You might be your child that's having it uh having treatment.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a real human element to what we produce.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we found that with some of the a lot of the translators that we use on board, um, a lot of the translators, there's a huge percentage of them that just don't get it, they don't understand it, it's not for them, they'd rather be translating books or marketing material, that kind of stuff.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and even the ones that have medical um translation experience themselves, Google, I'd rather be doing um instruction manuals for for medical equipment, that kind of stuff in instead.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: But the the the translators and the people that really stick around are the ones that really get a kick out of healthy people at the end of the day, without being clinical yourself, without being a doctor, about being a nurse, actually being in hospital.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is as close as you could possibly be to being medical uh and helping an individual at that time of need.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: So prior to this, well when I joined uh start working with Tom in 2014, I had no idea assistance existed.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um how much you that that kind of door has been open in that world is as you've been exposed to that world, you can see why people stick around for a long, long time.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: So just speaking of scale, how many, I guess, how many sort of off-the-shelf languages do you support?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I know, you know, as situations arise, you have ways of of scaling to other languages, but just you know, tomorrow or today, how many are are are sat there that that if a call comes in, you guys can support them right away?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: We'd say 90 plus.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's in the it's in the 90s.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um in reality, you know, people travel to the set locations the whole time.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um but and and but we are able to service those more fringe languages, uh, smaller African languages, smaller Indian languages, for example.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um but predominantly we would suggest that we would we see 30 to 35 to 45 languages on a consistent basis, um, and the rest are more infrequent and and and and rare.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: I have a good poker face because I was astonished.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was expecting you to say like 15.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: There are there are God knows how many languages in the world.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me how many languages are there.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's ridiculous.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: 60 hundred.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: 600.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: 60 hundreds.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's about 5900 of them that you'll you'll never hear of.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's remarkable.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: 90 plus languages.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my my head is spinning, and and again, I don't want to spend the next hour just talking uh.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is exactly what we're doing.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: They'll really love it.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: What do they speak in Azerbaijan?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh Azerbaijani.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is a conversation for another day.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Tom, I'm gonna slow down my pace.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna slow down my pace when we're running and and we'll just uh we can we can rattle them off in October.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: That'll be really fun.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Looking forward to that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing I've got to train for now.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So how are there go on Yeah?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've I've got lots of questions I want to ask you about the start of your new podcast and things, but this this possibly isn't the time for it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um It's exciting that you've you've kind of taken over the mantle from us a little bit and and picking up the baton and going with it.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: The the industry needs more podcasts, I think.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I guess I guess that's uh sort of a good segue to to the next bit of our past uh lives together, which is um your fantastic podcast, which um uh I guess I mean guys correct me, but the Assistant Stories podcast is still it's still going, right?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I mean you will have to put a bit of a future summer hiatus.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Summer hiatus.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think you you just can't get guests this time of year, and and especially not assistance industry.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Guests we we don't even bother hassling people this time of year.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll we'll wait till mm September ish, probably, and then start drumming up interest for a next season.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably uh Um it's it's it's coming to its end.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're in season with the if we do another season, I think it'll be season nine, eight or nine or something of the sort.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've been through an awful lot of guests, and this commitment to having a guest on every single episode rather than people just having to listen to me and James waffle on and talk about what we feel like talking about, um, does does have a certain shelf life probably.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard to keep that kind of fresh and new.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's it's possibly got one more season on it, but I'd be very happy to see um breaking the ice come and come and take over the top spot.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be fantastic.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that that wasn't the intention.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't the intention.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: So just go for it.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm all for it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: For everyone's benefit, uh I had the opportunity earlier this year um to co-host Tom and James's uh uh podcast for them called Assistant Stories.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: You should check it out.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we'll do the plug now, uh as opposed to seeing it at the end.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's called Assistant Stories, and you can find it on all good podcast sources.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's fantastic, especially the last season.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh obviously by far the best.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, no, I I I thoroughly enjoyed doing it with the two of you.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was it was such a blast, and I think there's so many fascinating stories.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, with this podcast, um and and with the merge uh between Nordic Insurance Software and Ice InsureTech, it's gonna be more broadly focused than than just specifically on travel and assistance, even though that's sort of my roots and and that's that that's what I know best.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think you know it will delve more into general lines of insurance, which I'm excited about because it's a good learning opportunity for me as well.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so if we can bring on some good guests um uh you know in those areas, I I sure I'm sure it's gonna be an edifying experience for me to participate in.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: But uh it has equally been uh difficult, you know, lining up guests over this summer period.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I think I think it's it's been still a fitting start to have it be a bit more internally focused, uh, particularly because we merged earlier this year and and we can kind of un unpack a lot of that in these early episodes.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um But it yeah, I mean it's it's still it's it's it's a ton of fun.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: I could talk endlessly about anything.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't know that about you earlier.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: You crowbar those words in.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well done, mate.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I I it's I mean, it's I I've started talking at 4 30 in the morning today, so we'll see, we'll see how many words I can get in today.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I know it's it's so it's it's great.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: I again, I I mean I think we definitely will cover some some travel and assistance topics.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: I just think it's such an interesting industry.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so interesting.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think and and I'm I'm sure I mean we're both service providers into the industry, and I think we both desire for there to be more of a spotlight on the industry because of how cool it is.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: The complexities of it are fascinating.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, they're not for the faint of heart, but they're fascinating, you know.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I speak to people um outside of the industry, you know, from friends, family, uh, you know, other gatherings.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um people ask what I do, and I completely gloss over what Todd and I do.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is what we do for, but this is who we do it for.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what and this is what they do.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you start talking about the happening at assistance company and what actually happens when when you when you need them.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if the the worst happens, then you need an air ambulance and the complexities around an air ambulance and the ground ambulance crew on the other end, and finding a bed back in the UK, which is you know, and I talk about them rather than us because it is so interesting, so exciting.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's people it's way more interesting than me telling them that um we do translations.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh okay.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then they say, What languages do you speak?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then it gets really awkward.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I try and avoid that question where I can.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, what what languages do you translate, James?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're complex.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there's some of the door.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hang on, I'll be right back.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm the only one.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the only one in the in the in the organization that doesn't, so yeah, not as bad.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Tom, if I if I recall correctly, you speak French, right?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I do indeed.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, bilingual French speaker.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: So you were so your time in your time in France was uh en francais?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was kind of brought up around French as a kid, studied univers studied French at university, well, international business and French at university, and then lived in France for about six years or something.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I can I can I don't quite pass for French, but not far off.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't understand your your Canadian version of French, though.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's above me.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Shorty can't keep it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, it's it's just it would no, I mean it's it's it's a more advanced uh you wouldn't understand it.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's it's it's like ultimate boss level French.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh how has just in in the theme of of of this sort, you know, being a technology uh service provider, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um you in some ways are also a technology service provider, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um more so now than ever.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: How have yeah, yeah.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean speak a little bit into how things have changed over the last handful of years.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Change up.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: With respect to your with respect to your domain of expertise, but then you know, broadly um uh you know, languages.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you're alluding to AI there.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's what you were alluding to.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and um it has changed considerably.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um there has been a form of of AI in the language service industry for a long, long time.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Any tool that was ever going to be created is going to be based on language, so therefore translation is one of the first things that they will start working on naturally.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: So back in uh the teens, 20 teens, um, it's called machine translation.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Machine translation was frankly hot doo-doo um on the whole.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and but then we had the advent of Chat GPT and and it exposed um the AI translation world to to everybody um rather than just being focused on Google Translate.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's it people believe it's that this is now therefore better.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and at the beginning it was it wasn't it's and uh and now it is is evolving and slowly getting better.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always the question that people ask is okay, how what about AI?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're in translation, AI can do that.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And on the whole, it it can do a good job at a conversational level.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what we're working with is um translation of medical reports, medical documentation for individuals.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um we can't just plug it into any uh open source AI large language model um due to data security restrictions, and as Tom mentioned earlier, that being a key part of the assistance industry.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: But equally, um, we haven't buried our head in the sand and it's gone blah la la.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is this this is gonna go away, we'll be absolutely fine.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: We've appreciated that um, in order for us to get better, say more productive than, say, the forefront and what we're doing, um, we need to adopt and embrace AI.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So traditionally, um our translations were handled by um a network uh of freelance translators that specialize in medical translations or have medical backgrounds themselves based all over the world.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that was for every language.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um what we've had what we've started to do is bring some of that in-house as full-time employees.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: We previously we didn't have full-time employees, full-time employee translators.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um translation industry is historically being gig economy before gig economy was cool.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's the way it's always always worked.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But in order for us to um ethically introduce AI rather than demand more and pay less effectively for those freelancers, we've um whilst not having full control over what how what how they're working, how they're operating as well, um, we've decided to employ full-time employee uh translators to be internal translators for those key languages where the the content of the translation is good.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking about the Spanish, French, Italian, yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um the rest of the languages we service in the traditional method because the the quality of the output isn't good enough to to warrant the um introductive AI.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the key the key point for us was was morally, how do we how do we implement this and and move forward?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know Tom Tom is is far more of a uh AI skeptic than myself.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so how do we how do we how do how do we go to bed at night knowing that we've implemented this in the correct manner whilst improving and maintaining the quality of translations we're providing our uh clients um and the how we we are handling the the relationship with translators as well, how we're we're communicating that to the translators.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we've we've seen significant um productivity increases as a result, and that's just one aspect of the way we've introduced AI recently.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: We've rolled stuff out um in terms of quality analysis as well to ensure that we're adding an extra quality layer into our process, um, as well as looking at other bits and pieces.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's the way we can implement it appropriately.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: How's that sound, Tom?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have to do anything else?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty good you land on top of that.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty good.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I to answer any of its broader question without going completely down the AI rabbit hole, although we blatantly will.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um when when I started in the languages industry back in longer ago than I'd really should admit, there there wasn't a huge amount of tech involved.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, no language company considered themselves really to be a tech company.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Today, language provision is 100% tech rooted.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're all about portals, integrations to bits of kits.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the integration with like the the way we bring linguists into the workflow has completely changed through tech, and then the way that we deliver everything has completely changed.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: We are unquestionably a a tech company now, really.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: We have our own bespoke portal, we have our own development team, and um that's just the way of being in business nowadays.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think we have we have migrated into a tech company without ever really setting out to be one.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that I I guess that was the the second part of the question, right?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Was that there's just a broader, there's a broader evolution that's happened where it has to be file file exchange is digital.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not just you know it's it's the expectations from the client, but also the expect um the regulations changing, right?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: The expectations around cybersecurity and data security, for example, means that the the old ways just aren't possible.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: You have to keep moving forward, you have to keep developing, you have to keep proving that what you're doing is the most efficient, most secure way of doing what you're doing.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that that all needs all needs development, all needs tech, all it's uh smarter people than I.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: No more fax machines anymore, I'm afraid.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Never send the fax.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Cerpris mentions.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um You know, viewers will not believe this, but but James is the youngest out of the three of us with his with his beard there, you know, he doesn't he doesn't get off.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't shaved for six months since I last saw you, Ellie.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I refuse to until I until I see you again.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's ambitious.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's ambitious.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was curious about the comment that you made, James, about sort of insourcing the core languages that w where the AI output is is sufficient.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: I assume that um, you know, first of all, it's not you that's signing off that they're sufficient.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: This looks good.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this looks good.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's those individual individuals I mentioned that we've employed.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they their role is to sit there and and edit and review, improve, um and work off off a uh rather than translating from scratch, working off a base, um, which still requires significant improvement on the whole.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, obviously they still need to be um I mean highly skilled to be able to determine whether or not the output is is sufficient or not.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess this similar calculus has gone into determining that there's many languages that are not yet and and I was, I mean, again, fascinated to hear that it's really only those four languages that have that level of of sophistication or proficiency.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do do you chalk that up to maybe just the volume that you're seeing, or or overall is it is it you know, just more broadly?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: The complexity of the language as well.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think um if we're talking uh it's like something like Japanese, for example, um if it's a conversational piece um that has the or a low impact piece, then probably it's it's probably be okay.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um the the when you start adding in medical terminology, the some of the formatting around these documents as well is is some of the real tricky piece um of the puzzle.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um then it starts falling down.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: You start getting this this comment this question as to is the effort of of improving an editing worth my time?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And would the final product be better if I just completely translate it, if I translate from the beginning?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um rather than trying to polish this.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um should I just start again and use my skills appropriately?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is it editing is a completely different skill.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's that's been part of our improvement process as well, is that not every translator is is fantastic for this.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have a specific way of working, a specific mindset to ensure that you are focused enough to appropriately correct and and review the translations.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: That that's been a real uh learning process and a challenge for us as well, that we've really had to renew so much of the team as a result because it's a completely different set of skills to work with AI output and to turn them into something perfect than to simply translate.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the to I mean, it's hard to really give an insight to the the the complexity of the challenge.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there are you've got kind of these four key languages, French, Italian, German, Spanish, where if you look at the the languages that the internet itself is written in, they're the most kind of commonly spoken languages on the whole.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the LLM models need that volume to harvest to learn how to how to translate.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: But also once you start getting into languages that are very distant from English, like take Japanese is a perfect Japanese and Chinese are perfect examples where the the very concepts of medicine that they're talking about just don't track properly to English medicines.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we're trying to work not just between two different languages but two completely different systems and sets of processes.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're referring to the stages in the referral process that a Chinese person is going through, and you're using levels of different doctors and things that just don't exist here.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the challenge is so much richer and more complex than simply C-word in language A, put it in language B.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we're constantly working across this across so many different countries.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got we talk about Spanish as a language, but that's 22 different countries.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got European Spain, where there's medical practices that are completely different to things going on in Mexico.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the the the the reality of that challenge is is considerably more complex, I think, than than than we really kind of take into account sometimes.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: I guess, and I mean, I should know the answer to this question.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm surprised that I don't.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: When you're when you're referring to translation, are are you just referring to inbound translation or are you also referring to outbound translation?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: And how integrated in that process do you get?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, I mean, you know, an assistance company that is, let's just say, natively English speaking is going to receive something uh in Spanish.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: They they have a patient or a client who's in a Spanish-speaking country.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: They don't have the in-house capability to be able to um it it's but it's not just that document.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's the general level of of support for that person wherever they are.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: How integrated in that process are you?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: It it varies really.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so all assistance companies will have um bilingual speakers or multilingual political um speakers uh as case handlers.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's just that's the target recruitment, which it makes perfect sense.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: So when they're able to communicate to hospitals in Spain or or with a Spanish um client, perhaps, or patient, um that is one route.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: What we then provide is um our telephone interpreting service for them to sort of for us to support that, to supplement that for those instances where they don't have the language in-house or those resources are are currently busy.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's how we support verbally.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of written translation, I think it's uh directly there.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is an English speaking assistance company, uh they receive a document that's a foreign language.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're able to translate that into English for so their medical teams are able to review, make decisions, all that kind of stuff.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And equally, we then have some insurance companies that um want to sell to foreign language speakers, whether it be the UK insurer trying to sell to Europe or what have you.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we were able to support to support in terms of the translation of policy wordings, if it's all that kind of stuff, um, from English into the target language, which is a completely separate service to the one that we provide to um those assistance companies.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Different set of skills, different set of backgrounds, different set of translators, um, so that these are and a completely different process as well.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's if it's a situation where somebody's in some far-off place um and the assistance company needs somebody to communicate on or with the patient or something like that, um, is that generally that's a that's a different service entirely?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's generally handled by telephone interpretation.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we would provide an interpreter to their to their call rather than take that call on their behalf.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we would provide a third person that joins the call and that can act as interface between those two people.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we can we can certainly um we have done this for years, you know, this is one of our one of our bigger products.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it it it suggests your your question very smartly gets at the fact that you've got this kind of sliding scale from basic phone interactions to perhaps exchanging emails and exchanging communications, and then we end with the medical report.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: And our focus is really about that medical report because it's what the whole case really factually hinges on.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what's nice is that where technology has started to eat more and more, no, not eat, but contribute more and more to the communication process.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's got easier and easier now to communicate in a kind of basic interactive level, like we are now.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: If if if you and I were speakers of different languages, there was tech that would allow this to work with no real challenges.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Equally, if we wanted to exchange some reasonably low consequence email, but that tech has been around a while now, and certainly with with the new AI products, we'd be able to do that.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you were only a speaker of Finnish and I only spoke English, we'd get there.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's the it's the medical document at the end where the the real consequence lies, and that's the bit that we kind of think needs to be slightly protected.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's a role for technology, I think, in in supporting the translation of that, but that has to be a medical human process still.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's something I it's a hill I'll die on.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the day that we're not using human translators for that, I will leave the industry in a heartbeat.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's just the way it's got to be.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: James, you you you certainly interpreted that my my initial question was somewhat related to AI, but but not entirely.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and I and I don't want to conflate um, you know, just general tech as as only meaning AI nowadays, um, particularly because I think it's just it's another tool that's used to build the infrastructure of of various industries, right?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think, you know, Tom, you're you're referring to um the the different transmission channels that you have now, the different um, you know, connectivity options that you have now that also provide a tremendous amount of efficiency.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you know, if it was only AI and there was no way to leverage APIs to exchange documents or to connect via video call or to you know, you wouldn't you wouldn't be experiencing the same level of scale and efficiency that you do today, right?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I do think I do think it's it's important to sort of put it in it in its right place and not see it as the antidote for everything um and just see it as as a tool that helps to build a more seamless infrastructure um you know for the industry.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Totally agree.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: I actually read a great article by uh someone at iStech about the similar kind of topic the other week.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um how does it feel, by the way, to be on the other side other side?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's all no, I'm joking.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it it it's unusual.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I didn't it it felt weird not doing the introduction, that's for sure, because normally we do.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um but actually it's kind of refreshing.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't got to be the one trying to think up these questions.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've just got to talk about myself a bit, which is nice.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can do the outro if you want, Tom.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that'd be weird.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you had a magic box.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got a question you're going to ask every single guest?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, uh, you know what?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's been it's been a mixed bag.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's been a mixed bag.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um Tom, I guess or James or both of you, um, you can answer this under the premise of AI, or you can answer this just sort of more broadly speaking.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: But um things are changing quickly.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Where do you see um the most opportunity and the most challenge for you in coming years?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe a little bit more broadly just within the travel insurance and adjacent space.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's a fantastic question.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you want me to go first?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Go for it, mate.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean broadly within the uh industry, I hate to I don't well, I hate to say it, but the the the the challenge coming down the road that no one can put aside right now is the climate.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um we are going to see uh an awful lot of um very difficult situations for an awful lot of people.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think actually in quite the short term, it's already beginning to have an impact on how people consider their travel options.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is really the first year with I don't know how it's been in in Canada, I've not kept too on top of it, but here it has been incredibly hot.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is really the first year that I've heard a lot of people actually actively avoiding destinations that are now too hot.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um we Brits have this I've always found it a little bit odd, but the the tendency of Brits is to wait till the hottest, nicest bit of the year in the UK and then go places where it's even hotter.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and this is and this is just what we do.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: We go to the coasts of Spain and get burnt to a crisp and then come home having missed all of the nicest weather back here in the UK.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: But this is the first year I've heard that that's actually people are really rethinking that and going, I I yeah, I I'd love to go to Spain, I'd love to be in the south of France, but it is too hot.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that's really gonna have an impact, uh, an unfortunate impact, I think, over the next few years, probably if it if this trend continues, um, where people are rethinking their travel.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I have seen a huge growth over the course of this year.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the stats aren't really out on it yet, but I'm keen to see.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think this will be coming up in the in the conferences and things.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: The amount of people traveling within the UK this year instead of going abroad um has been surprising to me.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I suspect that's probably happening in an awful lot of countries around the world, which is gonna have a downward pressure slightly on international flights, I think.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's a little gloomy.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: I realise there's an awful lot of positive to it as well, and it may um simply change the way that people are travelling rather than stop people traveling.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: You'll you know you you can't stop humans travelling.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's just what we do.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I suppose probably the the people of Europe might just move north a little northern south, perhaps, um, in in their choice of destination.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it might move things around and get us away from just French and Spanish.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um that's certainly one thing I can think of.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that's I think that's coming around the corner pretty fast, to be honest.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um James, what about you?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go down the AI route um a little bit.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Some's touch on on the uh the climate there.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me, it's the um the challenge is gonna be the the overuse of AI and then a possible scale back as a result.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um talking outside what we do, but talk about the assistance industry um as a broader um aspect.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: The the the need for humans in this process is is paramount.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Humans are at the core of of everything um in the for the service that they provide.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's uh my concern is that there's going to be an over-emphasis on on AI and the need to replace people with AI in this space and the impact it's going to have as a result.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: If I was an individual that needed assistance at that time and I was speaking to someone that was obviously AI or thrown into a process that was driven by AI at a time where I'm highly stressed, highly worried, um it's only going to lead to a negative impact, negative results uh too.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we I could sit for another hour and Tom will join me about the concerns and the negatives of AI and what could what it could do uh it could all mean.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that would be my my challenge I can see coming forward sooner rather than later, I imagine as well.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what about what about opportunity?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the where's the biggest uh moat right now?
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think again, talk to the travelers uh travel industry as a whole.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um there is a ever growing, you hear it every comrade sp and I'm gonna just reiterate it, but it's an ever-growing desire to travel.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like Tom mentioned, you can't stop people traveling, people just want to go um regardless of age.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: My mum is coming, but is approaching 60, for example, has just spent three weeks traveling Asia.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um 50 years ago, that would that was non-existent.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's a huge um pool of people that now want to travel, these more exotic places, uh more uh places that weren't ready available um back when they were traveling when they were young.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tom, what about you?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so I mean I think similarly the access to greater information about the world, I think just increases everyone's desire to travel, actually.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we I think we can get probably if you if if if you really blew sky thinking the whole thing through, AI makes everything more effective.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why is more of the world not moving perhaps to four-day weeks?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or we're all unchanged from our desks a bit more, we've got a bit more time, spend it out in the world, you know.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've used AI to guide me around places and taken me to visit places that I'd never have thought of going otherwise.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the way I travel has changed considerably with AI.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even within the UK.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: So my last visit to London, I had a whole list of like 20 cool fun things to do in London that I had never heard of before and never thought to do.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and this is happening at a global scale.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think travel's only getting more valuable to people, more important economically, whatever happens in the global picture, I don't know.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it for those that for those that can travel, it's a fantastic time to do so.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: And AI only makes the experience richer and better, I believe.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's gonna carry on.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna see um probably new ways of promoting different places.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the destinations that we go to, I think, are gonna be changed a little bit.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: New places getting more of that attention is probably only a great thing for them.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole new range of nations that could do very, very well out of seeing a slightly fairer share of global travel um and global tourism.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Probably it is over concentrated on a certain few poles at the moment.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think there's loads of positive opportunity there.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think as uh humankind, if I could use such a pretentious term, really kind of wakes up to um the uh uh the climate challenge uh that we're gonna see coming forward.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's gonna change behaviours in some really exciting ways as well.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as we actually get really, really focused on the problem, I have I have massive, massive faith in the human species.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're we're a fantastic bunch.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: We create some amazing stuff that absolutely nothing else has ever done before.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we will go on to do so.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: So as soon as we actually get focused on the real problems and start hopefully waging stupid wars with each other, we might actually do something really incredible as a result of all of this.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's there's opportunity all around if you try and stay positive about it all.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think specifically economically, I don't really know, to be completely honest.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think we started out this podcast with a big conversation about kind of why we're in this industry and and the kind of people that are in this industry and why people love travel and why people love the travel insurance industry so much.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you were just in this for an easy life and to make money, I'd have probably jacked this in and become a property investor years ago.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: It would be a far easier way to feed my kids, honestly.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: But hospitals, emergency services, insurance companies are full of people who have intentionally not made that choice because they actually care about seeing these outcomes and delivering these things.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think not only do I care very much about the the travel space and the delivery of the service that we actually deliver, um, I do care quite considerably as well about the languages industry where I came from.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and I have watched that largely be decimated in the last 10 years, probably.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: The the rise and rise and rise of technology has had a incredibly negative impact largely across most of the translation industry.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very proud to say, really, that James and I have approached the entire integration of AI and just the rollout of tech in a way that has always started with not what just what can we do, but what's fair.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where are we really going to be the people who have taken one this this business into position where it uses fewer humans, less people, less and and gives less back to them as well because they're being paid less, because machines are doing more.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um not comfortable with it, frankly.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the our opportunity, I think, is to just be honest about that and say that of course we're using tech in the right places and we've made a lot of efficiency gains, and we're giving that back as well and sharing that fairly and using it in a responsible manner.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there is a a a time of reckoning at which to allude to kind of James's same point, that we must in some way protect the role of humans because we can all replace ourselves completely.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: But what on earth are we going to do?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Where does the global community and the global economy actually go when none of us are economically useful?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like the idea of living in that world.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's even if it's perfectly achievable, then maybe there will be a whole other source of peace for us all, and we'll find great fulfillment in not having to work actually.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that we are all intrinsically creative and useful and want to do stuff and want to help and want to do things.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's certainly the cross-section of humanity that that lead this industry, I believe.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think the hopefully the big opportunity around the corner is for us to really get back in touch with that and realize that lots of people are in this because they love it and they care and it matters.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not just to produce the greatest possible profits from it and to minimize the cut the human cost involved in it.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's my hope.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's uh just a sort of a closing thought here.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's an entire separate conversation that we can probably fill a podcast episode on about um, no, just about the concept of learning.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the concept of learning languages.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh as I mean, as as one, you know, sort of example of whether or not or how people are going to learn going forward, yeah, and whether or not there's going to be a sort of a broad diffusion in society and intergenerationally, right?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm I'm fascinated by this concept of like generational trends and intergenerational trends and how there is a sort of a reflexive response intergenerally intergenerationally.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, some of society's problems today are going to be exacerbated by generational trends of the future, and some of them are going to be solved by a sort of a response or reflex to, you know, the ills of today.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: So um there's a tremendous amount to unpack there.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I just think near and dear to you guys is the concept of learning languages.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: And will people continue to seek out to learn languages?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, somebody has to keep the fire burning, right?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I think I think maybe we'll maybe we'll pin that and we'll save it for um a few years.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't don't don't don't pull that cord because I could be uh you put 20 p in them already, Elliot.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, listen, guys, I mean it was an absolute delight to have you on.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think there's there's yeah, there's an endless amount that we can talk about.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I I do very much look forward to seeing you both.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: Where where am I gonna see you both?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what does the fall travel schedule look like for you?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: I guess we won't be seeing you until the IAG event.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in Turkey.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's Temple.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's Temple.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you in two months' time in Toronto.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, otherwise, I guess we'll see you in Turkey.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: All right, gents.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks guys.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: This has been huge fun.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: Take you in the dumb.