Latest / The Chiro Money Show / 041 | Turning Marketing Spend Into Patient Volume w/ theChiroConsultant

Transcript

041 | Turning Marketing Spend Into Patient Volume w/ theChiroConsultant · The Chiro Money Show

• Scott: Hey, welcome back into the Cairo Money Show where we're helping chiropractors make better financial decisions so they can build stability in their finances and a lifestyle that they love. I'm Scott with Align Wealth. Thanks for tuning in today's episode. Today, we're going to be diving into the topic of marketing, specifically around paid ads and SEO. So Chris and I felt there was no better guest to bring onto the show today than Dylan Marchese and Trevor Johnson with the Cairo Consultants. These two brought a ton of value to the conversation and just honestly just bring it. of wealth and experience and knowledge in areas of paid ads, web and seo and that's what's so great about these guys is that they know chiropractors they built their entire agency to exclusively support chiropractors across canada and the us if you are a member of cnac or afc out in ontario or maybe you've been to the lux talks conference out in bc vancouver area then you may know may know or have heard of the chiro consultants We had the pleasure of getting to know them over the last year or so. And yeah, these guys know their stuff. And beyond that, we've seen firsthand that what they're doing and how they're helping us support chiropractors is delivering tremendous results. hopefully you can get some great takeaways from today's conversation. We've, you know, we probably had listeners in different camps when it comes to their experience with marketing. I know from our experience, we've seen docs that have put very little towards their marketing budget in terms of running paid. ads or optimizing their SEO. And we've also seen docs who have spent a lot of money with varying degrees of success when it comes to some short term success or positive results, but then frustrating when things aren't as consistent month to month in terms of what are they're spending on paid advertisements versus the results. So we're to dive into the conversation today and touch on a few things. Some of the things that you're going to learn today, we're talking about their four step process that leads to a great ROI or return on investment and consistent results from your marketing efforts. We're going to talk about what you should be considering in terms of a budget and kind of thinking about in terms of how much you should be spending month-to-month on marketing and definitely be sure to stay to the end of the conversation. and Dylan and I and Chris we get into kind of talking about what the clinics are who are absolutely crushing it with their marketing, what they all have in common. So it's going to be a great conversation today. Hope you enjoy it. We'll dive in now to our conversation with Dylan and Trevor with the Cairo Consultants. Chris: Alright, Trevor and Dylan, welcome to the Cairo Money Show. We're excited to have you guys here today and let's just dive right in. So wanted to ask you straight off the bat here, what's the biggest reason that most chiropractors are scared to spend money on marketing? Dylan Marchese: For me, what it what I see one thing would be getting burned in the past by other agencies, I mean the digital landscape as a whole, I mean, you can still call it new. You know, i if maybe in our lifetimes or our professional careers, it might start to feel a bit old, but in the grand scheme of things it's new, right? As far as technology goes and and so on and so forth. So when Scott: you Dylan Marchese: The agency world, for lack of a better term, started, it was Wild West, just like the internet was Wild West when things started, People are seeing new opportunities, ways to start businesses, make money, whatever it may be. that wa was and is very lucrative. Especially back then things were like super cheap, Pennies on the dollar, you were getting frickin' leads. So a lot of people just jumping in and learning. So a lot of people along the way got burned by everyone trying to figure this thing out. and then even beyond that, that still happens, to some degree or another where sometimes you'll There's a lot of good agencies out there, but just like in any industry, there's there's a lot of bad ones in the sense that because of the how lucrative the industry is, you end up getting quite a bit of people in it just for the money. So their focus is mainly on the sales and the growth of their business as opposed to the sales and growth of their clients' business. And then they end up in this big churn and burn ad cycle, so to speak, right? So they're running their own ads, closing people, and then not putting enough attention to the product side of things. So the stat for our industry, unfortunately. Unfortunately, is give or take. I want I hope it's larger now. I don't actually know, but it was always said to be about a three-month lifetime value. So for us, for example, working with chiropractors, the average assumption would be that e every chiro we work with, we are only with them for three months, maybe on a good the good side six months, which is very short. Especially if that's the average, right? We've thankfully been able to push ours much beyond that. We're Scott: Mm-hmm. Dylan Marchese: Above twelve months, we have some people at six years. Our average is probably pushing two years now, which is two and a half years, so there you go. So that's obviously far out seeds the average. But we put a ton of intentionality behind that, So I think as a whole, to circle back to the question, I think that's one major reason when it comes to ads up why a lot of doctors might be hesitant to invest money, is A, they've been burned, or the other side of that would be just not fully understanding Trevor Johnson: It's two and a half years from our deal. Dylan Marchese: how lucrative it can be when done well. Just sometimes, you know, the ROI side of things, it's they they went to school to be doctors, They didn't go to school to necessarily be business owners So it's just a new world, And you get into that whole talk of money in, money out, it's just a new venture. And it can be scary when you get faced with both management fees and ad spend. You gotta really put a lot of faith into the agency knowing that hey you're gonna at least get two to three X ROI, ideally more. Scott: Mm-hmm. Trevor Johnson: Yeah, I mean ultimately, like Dill said, trust and broken, right? Chiropractors were unfortunately victim to a lot of people who got in the digital marketing space who didn't really know what they were doing. And I mean, the the average chiropractor who comes with us it comes to us has worked with like, let's call it like five to seven different agencies who had a life cycle of, yeah, you know, let's call it three to four months. And off they are to a new one. And ads only work for two, three months and then I just swap the company. So that's the norm that we always see and we really we've really broken that mold. And ultimately Scott: you Trevor Johnson: The trust is really broken because like there's the there's no one who's actually partnering up with them to make sure that we're not just focusing on vanity metrics and hey, Dr. So and so, I generated you fifty leads, why didn't you make money? Like that's useless, right? That's vanity. What we wanna really focus on is we're doing these digital assets or these ads or this website, and you spent X and you made Y, So even on your end Any of our mutual clients, you can look at them and say, look, guys, like you're you're spending this, here's your marketing budget, that's great. But look at look at the growth that you're seeing on a month-to-month basis. And actually I'm I'm really excited for you to hop on a call. Like Scott, we were chatting about this past weekend with one of our mutual clients. They just reported some crazy numbers to us for a record month that they had in in May. So I'm excited to s for you to see that, But really they need the confidence to see I'm I'm spending this and I'm making this. And it's a scalable endeavor to put more money in and get more money out once the system is there. but yeah, trust has been broken and they need someone to actually partner with them rather than just you know, run some ads or something like that and never speak to them again. Scott: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris: So interesting. I had no idea that the typical, you know, life cycle or lifespan was at three months and even that other point you had of like the average chiropractors coming to you guys having already worked with about five or so different digital agency or media people in the past. That's wild. Trevor Johnson: Yeah. Dylan Marchese: Mm-hmm. Yep. Trevor Johnson: Yeah. Dylan Marchese: Yeah, it is a crazy stat. Scott: My next question leads from this first question on what chiropractors are scared, like scared to spend money on their marketing. Dylan, when we chatted like on our prep call a little while back ahead of this conversation today, you said something that kind of stuck out with me is that that's kind of the sense of chiropractors hesitant to spend money on marketing. And usually the phrase that comes out of their mouth when they're thinking about making an adjustment to their marketing is, I feel like I should do this, or it seems like I should do that. I should do ad spends because XYZ does this, or I've heard I should do this. But like you said, it's never like backed by data. Dylan Marchese: Mm. Mm. Scott: And to your point, Trevor, it's like, once they understand the numbers and the data that supports the ad spend, they're flipping the script of like understanding that there is gonna be an ROI. Can you maybe touch on that a little bit further in terms of that flip of the script of the feel of marketing versus actually using the data and making decisions based on that? Dylan Marchese: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I mean, we're a heavily data driven company. as I think all companies should be, right? I think that's another one of those bridges that Every entrepreneur needs to needs to cross, and we're obviously gonna put the doctors in that same category. It's like, yes, you are a doctor of chiropractic, but you started a clinic, so you're also an entrepreneur, you're c you're wearing two hats, So you do have to transition to that you gotta put your data hat on. and that's not easy for everyone. And if you've ever done a personality test in the past, you'll know that not everyone is a data person, which is fine. Then you just gotta find someone who is, and then you gotta to some degree trust that person too, So it's like, yeah. When you start to hear words like feel and think, you know someone's operating from a place of yeah, just emotion. And emotion is never a good place to operate for really anything in life, you know, especially business. When it comes to business. You gotta learn to and you guys would know you guys are you guys are in the markets, right? And emotion is the biggest topic in the markets and that's exactly what you guys can help people do is get rid of that emotion side of things, So it's like, okay, we gotta look at the data. The data shows proof of the past and predictability for the future. And once you have that data, it's a beautiful thing 'cause then you can confidently scale accordingly, so yeah, that's the big thing that we try to quote unquote hammer into our clients as soon as we can and And as much as we can, when we see those things, it's like let's just let's just look at the data. You know, sometimes we'll get a client coming back and be like, it just seems like even if lead quality is a big thing, So sometimes we're like, it just feels like a lot of the leads coming in aren't very quality. Okay, cool. Our response isn't just okay, we hear you, we'll try to improve that. We say, Okay, good to know. What exactly are you seeing? What are the names of these people? How many? What platforms did they come from? well, I don't know. Okay, cool. Well, how about you get us those names and we'll cross reference? Sometimes it turns out none of those lead or a portion of those leads didn't even come from us, So it's like, okay, if we didn't find that piece of data, that's not us trying to necessarily cover our tracks, but as much as it is like if we just went by your feeling and then we tweaked the ads, we could have tweaked something that was clearly making money and doing really well. Why would you want to do that? You wouldn't. So it's nothing to do with ego, it's nothing to do with who's right, who's wrong. It's everything To do is what's the real data and making sure we make decisions accordingly because you can make big mistakes if you don't do that. Trevor Johnson: Mm-hmm. Chris: Can you share some of the the key metrics that you guys are often referencing or most frequently referencing on your end? Trevor Johnson: Yeah, we we follow a four step process in terms of getting people results, lead volume, booking percentage, show percentage, and conversion percentage. Those are the four key areas. So in a general nutshell, we wanna generate leads who book, show up, and convert. And we have key metrics that we'll look for in each of those areas. There is nuance with that depending on the province that the person might be in, depending if they're like a little rural city versus like downtown Toronto, stuff like that. But those are the four key key areas that we really focus on to drive revenue into a clinic. Now ultimately there's a lot of other there's dozens of other numbers that we look at personally in terms of what are good indicators for leading indicators and lagging indicators that it's gonna attribute to a good month or a poor month, but in terms of what we deal with with our clinics, those are the four key areas that are gonna be the highest leverage that they'll wanna work on to get a good return. Dylan Marchese: Yeah, we tell everyone is the main thing we always hinge on is ROI, like Trev was saying. It's just RY, ROI, ROY. Everything else is an indicator to optimize if and when the ROI is suggesting optimizing needs to be happening. It would be no different than you guys with portfolios, right? If your portfolio, whether it's up or down, you're you're following data and you're just trusting that data and that process, all based on end goals, The second you start getting caught on things like what Trevor mentioned earlier, vanity metrics, a vanity metric in our space would be like CPO. So when that's Scott: Explain what that is, Dylan. What's CPO? Dylan Marchese: Yeah, so so that stands for cost per lead. So sometimes we'll get clients come in and be like, well, just randomly, like, hey, I'm just curious what my CPL is right now. And the reason why they'll ask that is because that's one of the first terms you learn when it comes to marketing or, you know, growing your business. What's your cost per lead? Which is a fair and great question, but in what context? CPL is irrelevant if you don't attribute it to the world that it's living in, And on one hand it's like, okay, well, if you're sitting there with a four or five 5x ROI, Which is great. Like again, for you guys being in the markets, how often do you see this is month-on-month cash return a lot of the times, Even if we're looking at 12 months, right? Everything averages out at the end of the day. So if you're looking at 4x ROI on the year, how many investments do you see those type of returns in? Not very many. Obviously, this is business, and those are the type of returns you you want to be seeing. But at any rate, if we're hitting that, we're chilling, maybe we can squeeze the juice a little more. But if you come to me and say, what's our CP? Trevor Johnson: Mm-hmm. Dylan Marchese: Because you heard someone else is maybe getting a $20 CPL. Maybe you're at 60 CPL. Maybe you're at an 80 CPL. But you're getting 5X return on investment. That CPL is representing you're getting a qualified lead. The price of them doesn't matter because it's producing 5x return. Now you could then say, but now wouldn't it be 10x if I brought it down to 20? No. Maybe, but I doubt it. You know what? 20 CPL, if your average based on 5X RY is 60, you know what a 20 probably means? A poor quality lead. And then guess what? Now you're coming back to me asking, hey, I think these leads are poor quality again. And now your 5x just dropped down to a 2x or less, So that's again falls into that vanity metric place where it's like those type of things we honestly try to avoid talking about with our clients as much as possible. Because it's so easy to get caught in the weeds there. It's like we look at these things daily and we optimize accordingly. Scott: you Dylan Marchese: But it's all reverse engineered based off ROI. If you're hitting your ROI goals, especially anything above 3X, for the most part, we're letting it ride, baby. You know, keep the party going, So that's that's kind of what we we differentiate between metrics that we look at. But to Trevor's point, it's like just look at those front-end ones, the four, the four main pillars that that we look at, all reverse engineered from ROI. Trevor Johnson: Yeah. Chris: Yeah. So yeah, obviously ROI return on investment is it's kind of like the bottom line, Like if that's that's what really matters. So if if there's a chiropractor listening that's like, you know, ha maybe not investing so much in in their advertising and marketing budget right now, like can you give us some ideas of like you know what what an average clinic should be spending on Dylan Marchese: Sorry, yes. That's it. That's why you're here. Yeah. Trevor Johnson: Mm-hmm. Scott: Mm-hmm. Chris: on this as like a percentage of their revenue or or however you guys want to communicate that what should we be spending? Because obviously if you can get us three X ROI, like that's great. How much do I spend? Trevor Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of different numbers that get thrown around out there. I think that it really dis depends of the stage of your clinic. For larger clinics out there who are doing more revenue, more patient visits per week, you take a larger marketing budget to sustain that new patient volume, whereas smaller clinics out there will take Scott: Hmm. Trevor Johnson: a smaller new patient or a marketing budget to sustain their their clinic volume. And I would say the percentage that you're spending on marketing scales up in percentage based off what you're actually doing in gross revenue. So not only is, you know, the total dollar value that you're gonna spend in increase, just because you're making more money, but you should also bump up that Scott: Mm-hmm. Trevor Johnson: the percentage as well. I think a good starting place to look at your overall marketing budget in your clinic is 8%. But we know clinics who spend up to 15% of their gross margin on marketing budget. sorry, their gross gross revenue on marketing budget, because again if it returns, it returns. We have clinics who spend like 20, 25% on marketing budget. But keeping in mind as you both know, if you're spending 25% now, if that marketing budget is doing a good job eventually Chris: Me. Trevor Johnson: That you know, if you don't change that extra actual dollar figure, it's really should be going down a percentage over time as your clinic grows, obviously, right? Yeah. But from a general dollar value point, most clinics from a digital standpoint, again, like all in, like agency fee, ad spend, most people like bare minimum, you're gonna be spending about three grand a month. We have clinics who spend upwards of ten thousand dollars a month on their marketing when you really look at the bigger picture of everything involved: websites, search engine optimization, AI optimization. Scott: . Trevor Johnson: Yeah. Chris: I appreciate you putting some actual numbers to that, Trevor, like a three thousand dollar starting point, like you know, for for some docs that that's gonna feel like a big number, Like especially if maybe the volume isn't as high as they want to or they're still growing. Like what what is the communication like when you guys bring on someone is there a minimum period of time we need to wait before we typically see results or like 'cause that's gonna be the biggest question, right? Like if if a dog's having a hard time coming up with five grand to to start this endeavor, you know Trevor Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, great question. I mean ultimately I get a really good gauge from clinics that we work with. We've been doing this a very long time. I've been under chiropractic care myself for over a decade. So we get a really good gauge on the actual skill set of the chiropractor. Sometimes it's just you have like this sleeper who's just like he just has the systems dialed in and it's like, you just need to like get more new patients at all costs. Like you don't you know, you don't you know you don't need to change anything you're doing in house. You just need more volume, Or you also have clinics who need a bit of both, you know what I mean? They need nortifications, but their their internal processes aren't up to par. And the reason I share that is because we're one piece of the puzzle ultimately, right? Like I can send hundreds of new patients into a practice, but if they're not getting qual quality care when they're getting into that practice, it doesn't matter. You're not gonna make a return on investment, So for a very skilled clinic who just needs nor You know, more new patient volume, they have a good intake process for their exams and the report of findings and everything. Most of these clinics are seeing results within the first month, especially in Canada. in areas like BC, as you know, return on investment comes over time because they're not selling care plans where they're collecting upfront payments. So they're just you know collecting per visit. So return on investment there is expected over a number of months. Whereas in a place like Ontario and Alberta, Where you can actually sell care plans. Most of these clinics are seeing return on investment for the dollars that they spend pretty immediately in that month. If you're selling, you know, two, three thousand dollar care plans, then you're gonna see the return on investment right in that month. And and a two-three thousand dollar care plan isn't anything crazy. Like that's like pretty normal in the chiropractic world nowadays, And again, if we're talking even paper visit like BC, you know, over time, patients who are sticking on care are gonna be easily spending that, As they get through their corrective phase into wellness phase, etc. So Scott: Mm-hmm. Trevor Johnson: So that right there, like one patient can make you at least break even on that $3,000 if someone's hesitant about that, Which again, when we're lock when we're talking about very successful clinics like you and I both work with, like three to five X is like the starting point, realistically speaking, because these patients sticking on for years and they bring their family in, then they're bringing their friends and like this is all attributed to return on investment. So we have clinics who make a 10x return on investment who've been with us over eight years, like millions of dollars generated from from just ads. Scott: Yep. Trevor Johnson: Right? So Scott: Mm-hmm. Yeah. The two you meet with a lot of chiropractors and I think you've seen all the mistakes that chiropractors are currently making with the decisions that they've been making in the past with their marketing. like things change year over year. There's different strategies, different approaches to marketing. In 2026, wherever we stand today, when you meet with a new chiropractor, what's the most common mistake that you're seeing right now that the chiropractors are making with their marketing decisions? Trevor Johnson: Feel Dylan Marchese: Yeah, it's a good question. It's definitely varied, obviously. but if I was to kinda cherry pick a few, one thing we see a lot of is again lack of data. So We're honestly often shocked at how many other companies can get away with retaining some clinics for so long with such a low amount of visibility, especially when it comes to like the web and SEO space, which is a reason why we decided to get it into it a few years back. We originally started just as, but we saw this huge hole in the market where they doctors just weren't getting a good service. At the time we obviously weren't experts in it, but we could just tell because we know what a good service looks like and that means clarity, visibility, trackable data, ROI. and anytime we would ask about it, they would literally just say, I don't know. We would literally just ask a simple question like how many patients did you get from your your your website this past month? It shouldn't be that. and we then we'd even ask have have you ever gotten like updates or reports or tracking? no. Okay. And then we would look at their website and then we'd start to we started researching Web and SEO and how it all works and we s very, very quickly could see things that just weren't done proper and they were just sold into sold into it. And some especially something like WebN SEO is that's something that feels more like a need, whereas marketing, digital marketing feels more like a potential desire. But it's at least at least from a an optics standpoint, pretty much everyone could say, I need a website and ranking makes sense and I need my website to be good, right? No one it's no one really argued that. So that's a pretty easy sale. But then because of that, people just end up th they they feel good subconsciously getting the check mark, paying that bill every month, even though they're not knowing what's happening, because they're like, it's just something I gotta pay. It's like playing the electric bill, you know what mean? So I think a a lack of data is again a big mistake. Scott: Yep. Dylan Marchese: I think for people who have clinics that have been running trying marketing over the years, like the people who've been burned multiple times, or even sometimes people end up with an agency for a long period of time and maybe it's working working out well, but expecting that the numbers are the same as they were back in like twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, even just anything post twenty twenty, right? Twenty twenty-one. even after twenty twenty one, after you know, the lockdowns and everything, we actually got clinics back up really quickly and ad costs were extremely cheap again because no one was advertising. Everyone shut down. So a lot of people pulled back. So then the space was open 'cause a lot of people don't understand it's bidding, right? Just like you have to spend a certain amount to be on a billboard to get ad placement in like a on a Scott: Mm-hmm. Dylan Marchese: TV or whatever on the radio, it's it's bidding. You're the highest bidder wins to some degree, It's mixed in with some other algorithm things as far as quality and relevancy. But long story short is they just assume again back to the CPL thing. well, I used to get five dollar leads. Cool. And milk used to only cost like two bucks. It's like eight bucks now. You know what I mean? Like, who are you to think that, you know, the digital marketplace hasn't also seen inflation? Not to mention, every year that goes by, more and more people get in the game. Like people are getting sold every single day, Chiropractors are more and more getting on the on the train, so it's like costs are just going up. But again, then the fear comes in. well, then it's Chris: Yeah. Trevor Johnson: Mm-hmm. Scott: Yeah. Dylan Marchese: too expensive and then well based on what what are you tying that expensive to right there's got to be a reference point the reference point is roy so you can see we always get back to this ROI standpoint so again obviously everything's within reason but at the end of the day ROI is ROI that means there is a return on that investment so whether you're spending a million a month or a thousand a month if you're getting three X ROI you're getting three X ROI so it's just getting over that mental hurdle of of costs is a is I think another big mistake. Scott: Mm-hmm. Dylan Marchese: And related to costs is the desire to look for the cheapest option, it doesn't happen all the time, especially people who have been burned, they're looking for someone who's gonna do a reliable, good job, but you still see it sometimes. It's like, well, what if I can get this person to do it for that cost? Especially with web and SEO. Well, I could get this person, I could get AI to make me a website for free or for like a thousand bucks with this kid. Cool. Is it set up properly? Is is it is it optimized for SEO, right? There's so many variables there. Is it actually gonna convert new patients? Just cause you got a website for thousand bucks. If you never got one single new patient from it, who cares? Versus in our circumstance, the way we build it, people are getting five, ten, fifteen, sometimes twenty, thirty new patients a month from a properly optimized website. That's worth an infinite amount of money. The ROI on that is monstrous, So, yeah, those are the three things from my perspective: is lack of data, bad expectations on cost, andor look in relation to that, looking for the cheapest option. Scott: Mm-hmm. Trevor Johnson: for myself it'd be two big things that I see first and foremost is really bad marketing, to be completely honest. Just a bad product, I've I've been on calls with with you know clinics doing two million dollars a year in collections and their website was from like a decade ago with like copy on the website though it could have been like straight out of like chat GPT, you know what I mean? So really just bad marketing, honestly, that or like the the ads themselves that they're running, the the creative that they're putting in, just bare minimum effort, that would be the biggest thing that I see is just plagued across industry. Scott: Yeah. Trevor Johnson: Industry, like we put a lot of effort into our product. We want to put out beautiful ads that actually convert. So, really, just poor marketing is is one thing. The second thing I would say is over alliance on one aspect of marketing. Like I just got off a call with one of our clinics today. We helped do her grand opening, she's been live for a year and a half now, or almost two years actually, and she's doing phenomenal. Like really, really thriving clinic. She took us on a new tour of the new renovations she did. Scott: Hmm. Trevor Johnson: Just bringing on an associate to continue growing, like just doing phenomenal. And that's I mean, that's my favorite part of our of our business. It's just seeing these people thrive in their clinics. But the topic came up, okay. So what are we going to do to to continue to grow with this associate? And I was like, okay, well, out of the total sum of new patients that you're getting, like where are they coming from? And do you admit it? Like, pretty much 100% of them is from the ads that we're running. And I'm like, Well, that's a problem. You shouldn't be like purely relying on. Like that's that's not good, right? you know, obviously she's getting some referrals and has like, well, how new patients you're getting from Google? Zero. I don't think I've ever had one, right? So over alliance on one marketing source. So now we're talking about expanding. Yeah, we're building her gonna build a brand new beautiful website and start optimizing and get it, get her listed on AI, Bing, Apple, all these different places, So wherever a new patient is looking for a chiropractor, she's popping up, So over alliance on one on one marketing source is Scott: Mm-hmm. Trevor Johnson: big issue people just get comfortable people get comfortable and then on the inverse side of that You'll have clinics who have just tons of marketing dollars going out there, and then it just gets unoptimized from a standpoint that they have so many new patients that they're getting. The level of care for each of these new patients, and it's kind of just like, we got so many new patients, like for who cares if I don't put in 100% effort on this one, right? And then you just start to bleed new patients and and bleed revenue because it's just too too busy. And Yeah, we're not as efficient and optimized as we should be in terms of conversion and making sure people are stuck on care, et cetera. Scott: Yeah, it's one thing to get new patients in the doors. Other part is just retention, like quality of care, like the lifetime value of a new patient that sticks around to their care plan and brings in their family members and gets them all care. Like that's where, that's where we're really gonna enhance that ROI long-term on that new patient acquisition, just getting them in for a single visit and the ball gets dropped there, right? Trevor Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Dylan Marchese: Yeah, and that's the goal for chiropractic, Like it's twofold for the chiropractor. that's a great amount of revenue, which is great. You are in business at the end of the day, so you do you do need to to focus on that. But the inverse side of that, which is the reason why they became chiropractors, that's to take care of people and to give them the gift of chiropractic and adjustments. So the longer people are on care and the more of their family they bring in, you're you're fulfilling the goal you set out for yourself, which is to bring chiropractic. to people. So yeah it's a double whammy and that's where that's where all the magic happens. Yeah. Chris: I always used to s I always say the the bigger the impact, right? Like most chiropractors got into this to have an impact in their community, the people that they that they serve and their they're incre if they can increase that, why why not, Like just like us and our businesses, we want to serve more because we love what we do and we we want to see that impact trickle down and affect more people in a positive way. It sounds like you guys have kind of done that with adding in the SEO element to your business recently. Can you guys tell us a bit more about how that has how that's improved the overall like level of service that you are offering to your clients and and what that yeah kind of how that's changed things. Dylan Marchese: Totally. Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris: Thanks for you guys. Trevor Johnson: Yeah, like everything we don't we do, we don't we don't do it halfway. We could have started bringing this to the masses like three and a half years ago, really, when we Like that was like it was about four years ago when we really, really first started development and and dipping our toes in it. But the first and foremost thing that we wanted to make sure we locked in was actual deliverables. Okay, we're doing webinars, know, what does that actually mean? How do we actually drive results, right? So we developed the product for a very long time. a painfully long time, to be completely honest. And we invested us as like a our business, we invested a ton of money in learning and time. And not only that, like staff, like we're not hiring a virtual assistant overseas for, you know, 500 bucks to do this for our clients, Like we're hiring like qualified, really solid people who can drive results and build a phenomenal product, So we really started bringing it to the masses. a year and a half ago or so and really it's just given us a more well-rounded product offering for our clinics is really the way I describe it. And it's achieved what we would call omnipresence because on the paid paid advertising side we're focused on meta. So Facebook, Instagram and other affiliated meta products. And then on Google you of course have Google, Maps, other affiliated Google products, which I mean tons of them obviously nowadays, right? YouTube, etc. So that's a lot of coverage right there, but then you when you look at the web and SEO world, you have AI, which is huge now, so ChatGPD, Groc, all these different places that people are searching now instead of Google. Like the the amount of people that are actually searching on Google is going down and down every single month, and that volume is being picked up by AI and in turns more of less keyword and more phrase match. searching so now you have in the world of SEO it's not just Google it's Google Google Maps it's Apple Maps because Apple people are tribal then you have the the Bing world where it's like who who who on earth uses Bing? Well tons of people actually use Bing they still have good market share because you buy a PC from Best Buy it's auto installed on there and the the the demographic of forty to sixty five year olds they don't know what the heck Google Chrome is. They're not downloading that they're just using Bing right so Chris: Well. Trevor Johnson: So Bing actually has a on average a more wealthy demographic that uses it in comparison to Google and AI, etc., and then again you have all these AI platforms, So s like SEO is such a broad term, and it's many things nowadays. It's not one thing, it's many things. So Scott: interesting. Trevor Johnson: That's why we call it omnipresence. Omnipresence is a sense of like any you know, everywhere all the time. And that's what we want to achieve for clinics. We're on all platforms, everywhere. Someone anywhere that someone is searching for you know, how can I deal with the psychotic pain that I have, or who's the best chiropractor in Windsor that I can go see? That's where we want our clinics found. Just gives tons of stability in terms of the results that I experience on a month month basis. Dylan Marchese: Yep. Yeah, we're big fans of it. just give it's given us another just another avenue to Yeah, provide more for our clients at the end of the day, Like just like we're talking about with doctors wanting to provide as much as possible for for their patients. We want to provide as much as we can. especially if on the inadvertent side is we know to some degree we're protecting them as weird as that might sound from people who have lower integrity. integrity is one of the main things we try to pride ourselves in and focus on. And I think that's represented in our reviews and testimonials. On Google and on our website. It's just honesty and doing the best we can no matter what. It doesn't mean everything works out peachy keen 100% of the time because it doesn't. This is planet Earth and nothing ever does. but you best believe that we put in the max amount of effort that we could to make sure that it would. so yeah, Web and SEO is just another opportunity for us to do that. And we at least know in good conscience that we've given it our all to our to our clients that do sign up with us on that, and then yeah, we get to just brought Broaden just our our our product base with these clients and do more with them and then get more new patients in the door. And yeah, it's great. It's also been a great to throw some marketing jargon in there's been a great lead magnet for us too because again, like I was talking earlier, WebN SEO is just an easier icebreaker because people to some degree, they don't necessarily understand it in its processes, but they know what it is and they know it's important. All right. So that's an easy, very applicable way for us to start conversations with people and give value to people. One of the main things we've been doing is just giving free web web and SEO audits to to new clinics that we we speak with. Because it's something that they value and they should value, and it gives them a lot of just information that up until now, nine times out of ten, they just didn't have, They just didn't know. Because it's you gotta learn it to understand it. SEO is a pretty hard thing to to wrap your head around without learning it. So we can go in, we look at their their website, how things are set up, Scott: Mm-hmm. Yep. Dylan Marchese: We give full f full hands-on audit and then we hop on a call after what these people do and and we answer any questions they have. So it's been a it's been a great tool for us in that sense too to just yeah, just open the door to conversations with more clinics and then show them like, hey, we're here to help and we're gonna we're gonna do the best we can to help you grow. Mm-hmm. Chris: Amazing. Scott: We talked about mistakes that chiropractors are making about you touch on your reviews and testimonies that you've had and... you we've seen the success that you've had with a lot of clinics and both in the U S and in Canada. Again, we've talked about some of the mistakes, but you guys are doing some awesome work. You're experiencing chiropractors absolutely crushing it with their marketing and seeing great results. You also mentioned that you have like a much higher retention than most of these marketing agencies to two and a half years, two and a half years as your average. Now, what I'd like to understand is like, is there a pattern that you're seeing with these practices that are absolutely crushing it? And Dylan Marchese: Mm-hmm. Scott: they're just keeping their foot on the gas pedal. What are they doing differently that people need to know about? Dylan Marchese: Yeah, I think honestly the main most simple pattern would just be open mindedness and a willingness to go all in. the amount of times we've had clinics that, you know, could have been fine and honestly from a statistical standpoint were fine that we ended up losing just because they just weren't all Communications were thin. It was like pulling teeth to to get on calls with them, which you sh would sound weird, A lot of people usually say, I can't get in touch with my provider, but it's the opposite. Usually you can't get rid of us, So in those cases where they're not like working with us, especially Trev kind of touched on it earlier, especially with things like creative. Like just stop and think for a second. What is an ad? What is a digital ad? It's a picture, it's a video, It's something, it's content that you are creating and posting to Connect with someone who knows where they are, what they're doing, to get them to stop, to pay attention to you. To decide that you're potentially a solution to their problem and something that they want to put their hard earned money, especially in this economy, in, to then give to you, to trust you to take care of their needs. And that has to happen in seconds, And you're telling me you can't take 30 minutes, an hour, heaven forbid two hours, to just shoot a bunch of quality content so that you have an opportunity to connect with these people to get them to come in your clinic? Like, does that actually make sense? Like this is the product. That's like going to a mechanic and not bringing your car. Like, what are they supposed to work on, So, and and honestly, we've s I know it can be a bit of a pain sometimes, but we've streamlined the process as much as we could. We only ask for creative a handful of times a year, especially the more you give us in that one setting, the more it'll the longer it'll last, This is this is you gotta have skin in the game, and it's gonna be effort, but But that's the point. And I think a lot of marketing too was always sold as just turn on ads, turn a blind eye, and get rich. Cool. You know, and honestly, there are some instances where that can and has happened, especially in the past. It's again getting less and less so now, but it's work at the end of the day. And why would you not want to put your best foot forward in representing yourself and trying to attract the right people? Because again, if you're not sending me content, and we see this more often than I'd like to admit, people that just don't send us. content or when they do it's like half-assed, pardon my French, and and then they come back on the flip side, hey lead quality sucks right now. How how are people supposed to connect with you? What do you like what do you want us to do? You know what I mean? If you can't even just put in the time to give us something that's going to attract what you consider the ideal patient for you, there's only so much we can do. And we do as best we can and sometimes we get away with it. But yeah, I would say I would say that's definitely a big thing is it's like just if you're gonna do it, you wanna grow, you gotta go all in and just commit. And honestly, once you do commit, it's like anything in life. Once you start going to the gym, the first couple months are hard, but once you get over that hump, it just becomes routine and it's it's Scott: you Yeah. Yeah. Dylan Marchese: It's easy, right? So just commit. Trevor Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, I think business acumen in general is greatly needed. As you know a lot of these chiropractors that get out school and they're there to heal and be a chiropractor, but ultimately this is a business, And you need to have business acumen. Dylan and I have been very, very, very blessed to work with a lot of phenomenal clinics. I mean, 95% of our business is purely be built based off of referral, which is weird for a marketing company, but it's because we put so much time and effort into our products. So as a result, we're a network with a ton of great doctors, as you both are. And Yeah, I mean w when we work with a clinic who's already successful and then just add more fuel to the fire, it's like there's there's almost no way to fail, ultimately. I mean I I met I shared this clinic who, you know, after you know, a year and a half, she fully renovated the office, took us like Scott: Hmm. Trevor Johnson: She's a killer. Like, there's nothing like with or without us, she'd be successful. So, where does Adam fuel the fire and getting her there much much quicker than she would have got there on her own? You know what I mean? So, we're very lucky to work with some great people. Yeah, the most successful people are people who have high business acumen and they are chiropractors in the heart. They they have a genuine care for seeing people get phenomenal results in their clinic, and that's what we need. Those are the people we want to work with because those are the people. Scott: you Hmm. Trevor Johnson: Who gonna make most money they can per patient? Like we have clinics who have like a 200 PVA, Like that's like some people might listen to this being like, What on earth? 200 PVA? Yeah, absolutely, But that's just the genuine care, the skill of the adjustment, training, like all of these things are so hyper-relevant as it pertains to marketing, because it just makes your marketing go a lot further. The more you can make from a patient, the more you can afford to pay for said patient. Simple as that. Dylan Marchese: Yeah. Even like the sales side of things too, in in healthcare and especially chiropractic, it it can always be a taboo word. It's like it's still business. Sales is still a very active term. It's something you gotta do every day. That doesn't mean the problem is people tag the negative side of the term sales to it. And it's like, well, there's also a positive side in to the term sales. You know what I mean? Sales can be very positive. In fact, it's supposed to be a very positive thing because you are that's just the simple exchange of providing value, Providing a need. And that's what you're here to do. Which means Scott: Yep. Dylan Marchese: Your sole goal should be to sell, Just because you're selling doesn't mean you're doing something scammy. Like, don't do the scammy thing, do the do the legit thing, care for people, pay attention to people, actually want to help them, and then present to them how you're supposed to help them, and then know your numbers, be on top of it, Like, if if you're if you're not going to be paying attention to these other things and you're just hoping to pay some some marketing company to send you new patients, you're gonna be fine, you're not. Like Trev touched on it earlier. If your sales is dialed, if your treatment's dialed, your retention's dialed, and you understand you understand these numbers, it it is very difficult at that point to not succeed when you do tag marketing on because you know the back end's working. It's like plugging holes in a boat. Scott: Yeah. Chris: I find on the as it relates to the sales side of things, kind of going back to like you're mentioning Dylan, like getting content that's kind of like with someone that's not all the way in, it's like you just gotta go all in, right? Like you gotta do what you what you're made to do, what you're what you're here to do, like is is serve that community and and when you go all in, everyone everyone notices, We can all tell someone that's that's only half half invested in what they're doing. Scott: Yeah. Chris: so if there's a chiropractor that's listening that's that's ready to go all in and that you know has the systems dialed and it's like, okay, now's the time to add fuel to the fire, how do they get in contact with you guys? What does that process look like to to start the conversation? Dylan Marchese: Yeah, I mean the simplest thing is check out our website. Nice and old school, just like we do with you guys. We get your website set up in your SEO. Our website is set up to show you everything you need to know about us, show you testimonials, show you our process. and then it's got a ver very nice simple apply button in the top right corner. You don't need to be scared of that button. All it does is take you to a a calendar and that calendar will book a time Scott: . Dylan Marchese: on this friendly guy, Trevor Trevor's here calendar. And yeah, you just have a you have a call. So similar to our Web and SEO audits, you end up basically just having a one on one call with us. We take a look at everything you're doing, everything you're not doing. we take a look at your clinic, where you're located, what the back end looks like, everything we've talked about on this call. We'll in some form or fashion discuss it, see if you're a good fit. and yeah, if we determine you're a good fit, we'll we'll make an offer to work with us. And it's really really as simple as that. Scott: Alright Dylan and Trevor, well we appreciate the expertise that you've brought to this conversation today. I think it's been a valuable conversation that we're sharing with our audience. Thank you for being here. We'll get this out and we'll leave all the links in our show notes to your website and social media and all that good stuff as well. So thank you very much for being here. Dylan Marchese: What? Mm-hmm. Yeah, thanks for having us guys. It was a good time and maybe we'll do it again. It's been great getting to know you guys over the past year Meeting you guys at the conferences and stuff like that. you guys are clearly, even for our community, especially obviously the Canadian community, you guys are fitting in great for lack of a better term, even amongst the other vendors, amongst the the doctors, even the the ones that we work with together on both sides. yeah, it's it's you got the personality fit, right? That's always important if you can relate with people. I think you guys are a great fit for this community and hopefully we can send some of our clients your way as well 'cause we're ideally making them all this this money and helping to grow their clinics, you know, you gotta just like you gotta manage your treatments and your retention, then you gotta manage your money. Scott: Okay. Chris: Yeah. Dylan Marchese: Yeah, helping make sure that it doesn't go to waste and that they grow their legacy for their family and and beyond. Chris: Yeah. Like what? Scott: Alright, thanks guys. We will wrap it there. Appreciate the time and for everyone listening, thank you for being here and we'll see you again next week.