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The Fintech Sales Labyrinth: Conquering the Challenges of Selling Intangible Solutions in Nigeria · Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint

• 0:02
  Hello and welcome to the show. Today we are still on the
• 0:05
  challenges of selling your Fintech ideas in Nigeria, but of
• 0:09
  course the principles that we're going to discuss applying in
• 0:12
  whatever client that you are, whether you're in the US of A or
• 0:17
  in New Zealand or wherever. Now this is your first time of
• 0:21
  listening to the show. We have had two or three
• 0:25
  episodes before this one as an introduction.
• 0:27
  So when you're done listening to this particular one, it would
• 0:30
  help if you skip back two or three episodes, listen to the
• 0:33
  prior ones, get caught up to speed.
• 0:35
  He'll give you the background and context to what it is that
• 0:39
  we're talking about. So since we've had quite a
• 0:42
  lengthy introduction already with the prior episodes, let's
• 0:45
  just head straight into the question for today.
• 0:48
  Challenges of selling your Fintech ideas in Nigeria Now,
• 0:51
  the primary challenge that you're going to face, especially
• 0:55
  if this is your first time trying to sell anything, is that
• 0:58
  you are dealing with abstract, complex, and you're dealing with
• 1:02
  things that are intangible and complex.
• 1:06
  So for someone like me who started off his business journey
• 1:10
  as a wedding photographer, you can see that there's a mix of
• 1:12
  part service, but then there were also part deliverables.
• 1:15
  There's going to be albums, there's going to be frames.
• 1:18
  That's kind of easy to understand.
• 1:20
  My brother and I were in partnership.
• 1:23
  He handled the videography, I handled the photography.
• 1:26
  There were service components, but then physical delivery
• 1:31
  components. A lot easier to explain, a lot
• 1:34
  easier to sell. Later on we would be involved in
• 1:39
  an agricultural commodities export business where we would
• 1:43
  export sesame seeds, charcoal, things like that.
• 1:47
  But then again, you get the picture.
• 1:49
  We're dealing in things that are physical things that are
• 1:53
  tangible. So for charcoal, you can quibble
• 1:56
  about the grade or you can quibble about the size.
• 2:00
  Is it blocks, is it ash, How many centimeters, how many
• 2:05
  millimeters? You can quibble about the
• 2:07
  moisture content, how moist or not moist.
• 2:10
  So when it comes to selling things like fintech ideas,
• 2:13
  especially for those of you who are trying to sell some web
• 2:16
  three thing, you guys, well, you might think you're at a
• 2:19
  disadvantage in the beginning because you're trying to sell
• 2:22
  something that is an abstract concept, it is not tangible, you
• 2:26
  can't touch it and then it is complex.
• 2:29
  There are lots of things to sell.
• 2:31
  So theoretically speaking, selling physical products should
• 2:35
  be easier than selling intangibles or complex.
• 2:38
  But this is not a case of whether one class of things is
• 2:41
  easier to sell or not. It's just that we're dealing
• 2:45
  with two different contexts of a sale, and each context of the
• 2:50
  sale has its own, So excuse me, has its own, what would I say,
• 2:57
  its own rhythm, its own framework, its own philosophy,
• 3:01
  you know, its own nature that you have to follow.
• 3:03
  So when you're selling physical products, if you're a wedding
• 3:06
  photographer, you're selling charcoal, you're selling sesame
• 3:09
  seeds, you're selling roasted fish.
• 3:12
  There's a whole framework, the process and philosophy that you
• 3:15
  follow, which is different than if you're selling intangible
• 3:18
  services that are complex. So if you're selling Web Three,
• 3:22
  if you're selling insurance, if you're selling what else?
• 3:28
  What are the intangible thing is out there, wealth management.
• 3:31
  So wealth management, insurance, web three, you're selling those
• 3:36
  sorts of things then we're now in a different kind of context.
• 3:39
  So there's a different sort of philosophy orientation that we
• 3:43
  ought to follow. So it's not that one is easier
• 3:46
  than the other. You just need to recognize which
• 3:48
  kind of context are you playing in already and then embrace all
• 3:52
  the Valhalla that goes with it. If you embraced all the
• 3:55
  Valhalla, all the trouble that goes with it and you try and
• 4:00
  learn what principles, what philosophies, what best
• 4:03
  practices are supposed to get you through from one stage to
• 4:06
  the next, then you should be fine.
• 4:08
  So you boys and girls who are thinking of starting fintechs,
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  so excuse me, don't think that you are at a disadvantage
• 4:16
  because you are not selling fish or selling charcoal or selling
• 4:20
  sesame seed. Right.
• 4:22
  So it's not a disadvantage, it's just a different game
• 4:25
  altogether. So embrace the fact that you're
• 4:28
  in a complex sale. Embrace the fact that you're in
• 4:31
  a complex scenario. Embrace the fact that you're in
• 4:34
  a complex situation, you're in a complex context.
• 4:38
  Just embrace it and you'll be fine.
• 4:41
  Now these are the things that you have to embrace in order for
• 4:44
  you to sell your fintech ideas. Your web three, your payment
• 4:49
  solution, your whatever it is that your your fintech is going
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  to be about. One of the things that you have
• 4:55
  to embrace is this. When it comes to intangible and
• 4:58
  complex things, you are dealing with a long sales cycle, full
• 5:02
  stop. You can't rush it.
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  It is just not possible. A sales cycle is what happens is
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  the length of time that happens in between that first time that
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  your customer says good morning or you say good morning Sir or
• 5:17
  good morning Ma and all the way to the close where somebody
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  transfers the money into your account.
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  The gap in between that first meeting and then deal close,
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  that is what is called the sales cycle.
• 5:31
  You have to embrace the fact that if you are selling
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  intangible and complex things, you're going to be dealing with
• 5:37
  long sales cycles. So don't rush it when you're
• 5:42
  dealing with intangible complex things.
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  These things are sold in weeks. These things are sold in months.
• 5:48
  Sometimes these things are sold in years, so you can't rush it.
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  I'm not saying that selling your web three idea or whatever
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  fintech thing you're going to do is going to take years.
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  I'm just trying to say that don't think you can talk to
• 6:06
  somebody on Monday and then collect the check on Friday.
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  It doesn't work. Let's look back to my earlier
• 6:13
  examples for wedding photography.
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  It was possible that I could speak to somebody on Monday and
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  collect my money on Friday. For the Agric export business,
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  it's a little bit of complexity involved, but it's possible for
• 6:26
  me to talk to somebody January 1st and then to collect my money
• 6:30
  January 30th or maybe February 14th.
• 6:33
  You know, you get the picture. But if you have these kind of
• 6:36
  expectations when it comes to intangible and complex things,
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  you're putting yourself in for a long jump.
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  So where was I? Yes.
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  So it's a long sale cycle. Embrace it, don't rush.
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  How long is it going to take? I don't know because I don't
• 6:52
  know what idea you're trying to sell.
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  I'm not in your particular context.
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  If I was advising on it and we tried a couple of motions, you
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  know, visit a couple of people, talk to a few potential
• 7:01
  customers, I'll be able to get a sense of, OK, this thing might
• 7:04
  take X number of weeks or X number of months.
• 7:07
  So right now, I can't say, but don't think in terms of days and
• 7:10
  weeks. Think in terms of if you want to
• 7:14
  think quick, think in terms of weeks, months.
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  Definitely not days or one week. Now since it is going to be a
• 7:23
  long sales cycle, this is the proper orientation to take to
• 7:27
  sell your web three idea, to sell your crypto idea, to sell
• 7:32
  your blockchain idea, to sell your fintech, to sell your
• 7:34
  whatever. You're going to be taking
• 7:36
  prospects or stakeholders through different stages.
• 7:41
  Since it's going to be a long sales cycle, you are not going
• 7:44
  to have one meeting and then close the deal.
• 7:47
  So don't assume that you will show up to somebody's house on
• 7:52
  January 31st and then that same day you're going to collect your
• 7:56
  money. That's not how it works.
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  Assume that you are going to visit Al Haji or visit Al Aja or
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  visit Oga or Madam or whoever. Assume that you're going to
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  visit this person multiple times.
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  Each visit that you go through, you're going to have one
• 8:17
  particular agenda that you want to achieve to move the sale
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  forward just one step forward. So each meeting you are thinking
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  one primary goal. If you go for this meeting, you
• 8:28
  achieve that primary goal that is good.
• 8:30
  Give yourself a part on the back.
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  When you get home, you kneel down, you pray to God, you say
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  thank you very much, you bless my going out and you'll bless my
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  coming back in tomorrow, bless my going out and bless my going
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  in as well. And then be happy about that.
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  And then start planning towards the next visit where the goal is
• 8:49
  to move things another step forward.
• 8:52
  So it's a long sale cycle. You are going to be taking your
• 8:55
  prospects, your stakeholders, the investors, whoever it is at
• 8:59
  your meeting. You are going to have multiple
• 9:01
  meetings, each meeting one agenda.
• 9:05
  You achieve the agenda. Good.
• 9:07
  You're one step closer to closing the deal, then the next
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  meeting another agenda. Now the multiple visits that you
• 9:14
  could be that you'll be taking can be around different sets of
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  things. First of all, I would recommend
• 9:20
  that you have to confirm that somebody's even interested in
• 9:22
  the damn thing in the 1st place. Because if you go to Al Haji or
• 9:26
  Al Haja or Madam or Oga or whoever, and you're talking web
• 9:31
  three, wave of the future, disintermediation of markets and
• 9:37
  blah, blah, blah, and all that big grammar.
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  But Al Haji is not in that headspace.
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  Al Haji is not in that headspace, chief.
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  So, so, so and so is not in that headspace.
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  If they are not in that headspace and there's no
• 9:48
  interest, you are wasting your time.
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  You cannot take somebody who is disinterested or who doesn't
• 9:55
  have a problem or a need into a closed sale.
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  I mean, of course, if the person have tons of cash and they're
• 10:01
  like this person is my friend's son, let me just help them, then
• 10:04
  of course, yeah, they might help you, but it's just helping.
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  It's not as if they're interested.
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  So first visit, you should even be trying to figure out, is this
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  person interested in the 1st place?
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  Do they see that there's a problem here?
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  All right, so confirm that they're interested.
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  That is one visit. Another visit could be to
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  confirm the extent of the problem.
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  Because when you confirm that somebody is interested or it
• 10:30
  looks like there's room, the next thing is you fix an
• 10:33
  appointment where you go into discovery, where you start
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  having conversations to try and figure out who they are, what
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  their context is, the problems that they're facing, the
• 10:43
  financial problems that they're facing with their current
• 10:46
  payment provider or with their current, you know, whatever it
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  is that you're trying to do that is some financial related.
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  You need to figure out the core problems that they are facing.
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  Where is there a gap in payment processing, or where is there a
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  gap in validating something, or where is there a gap in
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  executing something? You need to figure out all these
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  things. So in the first meeting where
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  you confirm interest and it looks like everybody is on
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  board, they see a vision here. The next thing is you ask for a
• 11:16
  meeting so you guys can talk some more.
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  The next meeting is where you're going to do discovery, where
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  you're trying to confirm the extent of the problem because
• 11:23
  it's possible that somebody might be interested.
• 11:25
  This looks like a cute idea, but at the end of the day, yeah,
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  it's not a problem that is worth solving.
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  Like OK, yeah sure, our current provider, they process payments,
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  but they don't process it too fast.
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  It takes 3 hours to reconcile accounts instead of globally it
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  happening in 3 minutes, you know?
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  Yeah, so that's a big problem, but you never know.
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  Maybe in the Nigerian context, people are OK with processing in
• 11:53
  three hours or whatever. By the way, you know, this is
• 11:55
  not my space, so I'm just making things up the top of my head.
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  But I'm just trying to say that you have to figure out if there
• 12:01
  is a problem that is worth solving or not.
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  So that could be meeting #2. So you already see now we're
• 12:08
  looking at two meetings. Then we're also eventually going
• 12:13
  to start talking about financial implications later on.
• 12:17
  Like, OK, this problem that you guys have, how much is it
• 12:19
  costing you in manpower? How much is it costing you in?
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  Let's see what else Manpower lost hours, penalties, you know,
• 12:29
  whatever. And then you also try and get a
• 12:31
  sense of money, expectations, whether budgets have been
• 12:36
  allocated to solving these problems.
• 12:38
  You know, all those sorts of things.
• 12:40
  You have to have all those conversations now.
• 12:42
  It is only after you've done all these steps that you're going to
• 12:45
  be able to get people to a proposal.
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  And by the way, the proposal should be a separate meeting on
• 12:51
  its own, like you show up. And that's the only thing we're
• 12:54
  doing today. Oga, Madame Hajia, Chairman,
• 13:00
  Whatever. This is the proposal, item one,
• 13:04
  Item 2. This is what we're trying to
• 13:05
  achieve. This is how we think is going to
• 13:07
  help you. What do you think?
• 13:09
  OK, we're in agreement, OK? And the next step is you pay the
• 13:13
  deposit and blah blah blah. So you can see now that me
• 13:17
  freestyling off the top of my head, we've seen how we're
• 13:20
  trying to take people through multiple stages with multiple
• 13:24
  visits. First of all, are they
• 13:26
  interested? Does it look like this thing
• 13:28
  makes sense? OK, they think it makes sense.
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  Let's fix a meeting where I fixed the meeting.
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  Are they facing any problems that my product or service can
• 13:37
  solve? How bad is this problem?
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  OK, then fix another meeting. We now start looking at
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  finances. We're running into the financial
• 13:48
  implications. Do they have a budget?
• 13:50
  All these sorts of things. It's only after we have done all
• 13:53
  these meetings that we can now say, Olga, are you free?
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  I'm going to be in town December 26th.
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  Maybe I should just pass through the office and show you the
• 14:05
  proposal. Then that's also another stage.
• 14:08
  And then after that, you try and close the deal.
• 14:10
  So off the top of my head, these are just some multiple stages
• 14:14
  that you can run through and it's the same whether you're a
• 14:16
  prospect or whether you're dealing with an investor.
• 14:19
  When you meet with the potential investor, first of all you're
• 14:21
  trying to confirm interest. Is this person interested in my
• 14:25
  Web 3, blockchain, fintech, whatever idea.
• 14:29
  Now in the previous podcast episode, I give an example of
• 14:32
  how you might be related to the richest man in your village who
• 14:36
  is a billionaire. So because of that, Popsy or
• 14:40
  your mom can give you easy access.
• 14:41
  You have a meeting with the guy. He'd figure out if the person is
• 14:44
  interested. He might be the richest guy in
• 14:46
  your village and he might be a billionaire.
• 14:48
  But maybe he made his billions selling palm oil and maybe his
• 14:53
  extent of education was secondary school.
• 14:55
  Now, even though he is a billionaire, the fact is he made
• 14:58
  his money selling something tangible, which is palm oil, and
• 15:01
  the extent of his education was secondary school.
• 15:04
  Might he be sophisticated enough or interested enough to
• 15:07
  understand the promise or the challenges of raising a fintech?
• 15:13
  You never know. You have to go and have that
• 15:15
  conversation first. Because it's possible that yes,
• 15:18
  he didn't go past secondary school, but you know, with his
• 15:21
  kids and with podcasts and things like that, he's
• 15:23
  interested. He's been up to date on stuff,
• 15:26
  things like that. But first of all, you have to
• 15:28
  confirm if this guy is interested.
• 15:30
  Because if you're going back multiple visits, trying to sell
• 15:33
  him on the idea, trying to sell him on the idea, you want him to
• 15:35
  invest, you want him to invest. But he's not interested.
• 15:38
  He doesn't even understand the concept.
• 15:41
  The chances are you're not going to be successful.
• 15:43
  So you can see that the thought process is the same even when
• 15:46
  you're looking for investors. Multiple visits, each visit, one
• 15:50
  goal, one agenda. Achieve the agenda.
• 15:53
  Give yourself a pat on the back, kneel down your room, pray At
• 15:57
  the end of the day, thank God, ask for grace for the next step
• 16:00
  and then you continue. Eventually you get to the close.
• 16:03
  You receive your investments. Now, because I have outlined 5
• 16:08
  or 6 stages does not mean that in your own case there is going
• 16:11
  to be literally five or six visits or five or six stages.
• 16:16
  It depends the whole thing of confirming interest.
• 16:18
  You never know, it might take two or three meetings.
• 16:22
  You might show up, you guys yarn a bit and then the guy received
• 16:25
  his phone call. He has to go and he has to go to
• 16:27
  school. Maybe his son was playing
• 16:30
  football and fell down and smashed his two front teeth.
• 16:34
  The guy has to leave. You know, these things happen.
• 16:36
  Meetings get caught short. So confirming interest, you
• 16:39
  might find out that you guys had two or three physical visits and
• 16:42
  maybe five or six phone calls. So don't say that because I
• 16:48
  listed off 5 or 6 stages. Now you think you can close
• 16:50
  everything in, so excuse me, in five or six visits.
• 16:55
  So in reality, it's more messy. It's much more complicated
• 16:59
  because you can't confirm interest, confirm the extent of
• 17:02
  the problem, talk about financial implications.
• 17:04
  But by the time you get to the proposal, you now realize that
• 17:07
  there's something that is fundamental that OCA or investor
• 17:11
  or Madame or Deaconess, AFUBERO or whoever you're talking to did
• 17:16
  not understand. And then you now have to go back
• 17:18
  to Stage 1 to start clarifying things.
• 17:21
  So it's not a linear thing. Sometimes it can be.
• 17:24
  It can be cyclical. So it doesn't have to be
• 17:27
  literally only six visits. Now, another thing that you have
• 17:31
  to embrace when you're trying to sell your fintech idea, your Web
• 17:34
  three, your financial services, your whatever it is that you're
• 17:37
  trying to sell is you're going to have multiple decision
• 17:41
  makers. For my wedding photography
• 17:44
  business, it was simple. I'm talking to the bride.
• 17:46
  I have to convince her. But sometimes the person who
• 17:50
  pays is the groom or the groom side of the family.
• 17:54
  You can see that last last I'm dealing with two or three
• 17:58
  decision makers, tops for the commodities business was
• 18:02
  different. We're dealing with one decision
• 18:05
  maker, usually the business owner who is in the Middle East
• 18:10
  or wherever, who wants charcoal from Nigeria for Shisha or for
• 18:16
  powering combustion machines or whatever.
• 18:20
  So usually we were dealing with one person and that one person
• 18:24
  will decide this is the price, this is the whatever, this is
• 18:28
  the payment terms, let's do business.
• 18:30
  So you can see in this case we're dealing with limited
• 18:32
  decision makers for the weddings, yeah, 2-3 tops for
• 18:36
  the. Charcoal for the commodities the
• 18:38
  person wants to buy, Sesame for the for the confectionery
• 18:45
  products or whatever. One person.
• 18:48
  So you can see we're dealing with limited small number of
• 18:50
  decision makers when it comes to your fintech, your Web 3 or
• 18:54
  whatever. Just embrace the fact that
• 18:56
  you're going to deal with multiple decision makers.
• 19:00
  This is not talking to one or two people.
• 19:02
  There are multiple people that you have to consult.
• 19:04
  There are different key people that you need to consult.
• 19:08
  First of all, there's going to be the technical user.
• 19:10
  That's the person who is the desk officer or the account
• 19:12
  officer, or the person who is going to be using your web three
• 19:15
  this, your blockchain, this your fintech, whatever, whatever.
• 19:18
  To execute the transaction you need to get buy in from those
• 19:23
  people because you can talk to all the people on board.
• 19:26
  But if at the end of the day the technical people think it's a
• 19:28
  bad idea, they will blow up your whatever because Oga will say
• 19:33
  this is what we're doing and they'll say Oga.
• 19:34
  This will not work because of this protocol, because of that
• 19:37
  protocol, because it has to integrate with this other
• 19:40
  software that we have or it has to integrate with this other
• 19:43
  payments process that we have is not integrating here, it's not
• 19:47
  integrating there. So just know you're going to be
• 19:51
  talking to technical users, you cannot avoid it.
• 19:54
  Who is the person that's going to be responsible for taking
• 19:58
  your web three thing and implementing it?
• 20:00
  Or downloading the software and implementing it?
• 20:03
  Or? Do you know putting the add on
• 20:07
  on the website and integrating it across the different
• 20:09
  platforms? You need to be talking to the
• 20:11
  technical users, to the technical people.
• 20:14
  You also have to be talking to the economic person.
• 20:18
  That is a mistake that a lot of people make.
• 20:20
  They assume that OK, Orga Orga Chukudi is the head of the
• 20:24
  organization. So once I talk to Orga Chukudi
• 20:27
  and he decides that is it is not that simple.
• 20:29
  Yes, Orga Chukudi is one that is going to pay the money at the
• 20:33
  end of the day. So that's why you have to speak
• 20:35
  to Oga Chukudi or Madam Chica and get her own buy in.
• 20:40
  But if Madam Chica says let's go ahead but all the technical
• 20:44
  users say ah Madam this will not work, It's not integrating here,
• 20:47
  it's not doing this, it is not compliant with this, anything
• 20:50
  will work. So as you're talking to
• 20:52
  technical users, yes also be talking to Madam Chica and get
• 20:56
  her on board the other people that also have economic and
• 21:00
  economic stake in the whole thing.
• 21:02
  There's also procurement department if technical users
• 21:06
  and Madam Chica, I think let's go ahead but people in
• 21:09
  procurement or finance, I don't know maybe they don't like your
• 21:12
  face or something. It's going to make it hard for
• 21:15
  this deal to go through. So I hope you guys have been
• 21:17
  need to get a sense of how many decision makers that you have to
• 21:21
  talk to to get this. Your fintech idea to fly the
• 21:24
  desk officer, the account officer, the technical person,
• 21:26
  the IT person. You're talking to somebody.
• 21:29
  You have an inside person in the department Madam Shika Orga
• 21:32
  Chukudi who owns the business. You're talking to the person,
• 21:36
  the people in procurement, you know one or two people there.
• 21:38
  You know BC who is there. You have a phone number so you
• 21:41
  call her once in a while. The finance person, you know
• 21:45
  Alhaji Gariba who has the finance department, you have his
• 21:49
  phone number, you know you have him on WhatsApp.
• 21:50
  You guys, you should be chatting the department head.
• 21:54
  You also need to be in touch with the department head.
• 21:56
  You know you need to be in touch with all these people.
• 22:00
  The bottom line is multiple decision makers.
• 22:02
  You have to take a multi threading approach for weddings
• 22:06
  it was simple. I will start and try and enter
• 22:09
  with the bride if it doesn't work.
• 22:10
  Sometimes you enter through the groom and of course sometimes
• 22:13
  it's the parents who are paying so.
• 22:15
  But you can see it's a simple something.
• 22:17
  Bride groom parents bridegroom parents.
• 22:19
  Simple for this one. Now multi threading, who is the
• 22:24
  technical person? Who is the accounts person?
• 22:26
  Who is the branch manager? Who is the CRO?
• 22:29
  Do I know somebody in procurement who is in finance
• 22:31
  department? You know, blah blah blah, multi
• 22:33
  threading, you're talking to tons of people to get this deal
• 22:37
  going. So in case you haven't figured
• 22:39
  out, networking is going to be essential, relationship building
• 22:43
  is going to be essential. Yeah, all those are soft
• 22:48
  intangible skills. Now let me bring this episode to
• 22:51
  a close here because you know this is plenty talk we can keep
• 22:54
  on going on and on and on. But suffice to say we have
• 22:58
  finally gotten into the nitty gritty of the challenges of
• 23:01
  trying to sell your fintech ideas in Nigeria or Canada or
• 23:04
  New Zealand or wherever it is that in the world that you are
• 23:07
  based. So let me see.
• 23:12
  OK, I'll have to gather my thoughts and then tomorrow we
• 23:15
  will take it up from here. So in the meantime, connect with
• 23:18
  me on WhatsApp. Phone number is 08064662140, the
• 23:25
  country code is +234 and connect with me on LinkedIn.
• 23:29
  The name is Tavi Shima Ayade. I'm the host of the show.
• 23:32
  You can confirm the spelling of my name from the link from the
• 23:36
  website that you're listening to this episode.
• 23:38
  My e-mail address is there also in case that's your cup of tea.
• 23:41
  Yeah, I'm also available on Instagram, but LinkedIn you get
• 23:44
  a proper response. So thank you very much for your
• 23:46
  time and attention. We will be back tomorrow where
• 23:49
  we continue with the challenges of selling your fintech ideas
• 23:52
  and I hope you guys are now beginning to get a sense of how,
• 23:56
  yes, somebody might raise 2M3M dollars for the fintech idea,
• 24:01
  but you're starting to see how these things can fall apart.
• 24:04
  So it's not as simple as you raise three M for your business,
• 24:08
  your fintech idea, therefore it's going to work.
• 24:10
  You can see the nitty gritty, the small, small that we have to
• 24:12
  be doing to make things successful.
• 24:14
  The problem is people are trying to run all these things using
• 24:18
  common sense, and it's not always common sense.
• 24:20
  When I started off as a wedding photographer was the same thing.
• 24:23
  I was trying to run this whole thing using common sense, but
• 24:25
  it's not common sense. You need to learn and that their
• 24:28
  frameworks, their principles, their processes that go with all
• 24:32
  these things, you need to learn them.
• 24:34
  You don't have to pay a coach, you don't have to engage me.
• 24:37
  There's YouTube, there's podcast, there's all sorts of
• 24:38
  things, but it makes a lot, a whole ton of a difference if you
• 24:42
  start thinking about these things in a holistic, holistic,
• 24:49
  what would I say like framework oriented way of thinking.
• 24:53
  So if you think in those terms and start approaching it in
• 24:55
  those terms, then your odds gradually increase, they go up.
• 25:00
  So thanks for your time and attention.
• 25:01
  I'll catch you guys at the next episode.