Latest / Content, Briefly / Attentive: Kasey Hickey on ruthless prioritization

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Attentive: Kasey Hickey on ruthless prioritization · Content, Briefly

• 0:00
  We are entering this like totally new world of like AI on the one hand, but then like, of course, on just the industry side on the other hand is like search and discoverability and like brand just being so critical and, and being so opinionated and thoughtful and not just sort of like the old way, I guess.
• 0:25
  [upbeat music] Hey, and thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of Content Briefly. Really excited to be talking with Casey Hickey today.
• 0:32
  She's the Senior Director of Brand and Content at a company called Attentive. If you're not familiar with Attentive, they've been around for quite a while. They're a Series A, or sorry, Series E, excuse me, startup.
• 0:41
  I don't say that very often. They've raised more than eight hundred million dollars. They're in the SMS and email space, primarily helping retailers and D2C companies reach their customers.
• 0:51
  We talk a little bit about the product to get a sense of who exactly they're targeting, but what we really dive into is the way that Casey distinguishes between supporting other teams and focusing on her content team's goals.
• 1:03
  That's kind of an evergreen content marketing challenge, and I really liked her perspective on it. We also talked about how disciplined she and the team are about prioritizing the work that they do.
• 1:12
  While they are very well-resourced, she does not wanna be just creating content for content's sake. She wants every single thing they work on to be as impactful as possible, and it was awesome to hear her describe that.
• 1:22
  And then we do get into a little bit of the brand stuff.
• 1:25
  So she's, like I mentioned, now the Director of Brand and Content, so we talk about what that means, the kinda like the Venn diagram of brand and content, what's unique, where do they overlap, that kinda stuff.
• 1:34
  Overall, a conversation that I really enjoyed, and I hope you do too. [upbeat music] This episode of Content Briefly is brought to you by our friends at Shelf.
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• 2:48
  To learn more about their podcast production service, as well as their other adaptive content marketing services, check out minutia.com in the show notes. Hey, everybody.
• 2:57
  Jimmy from Superpath here today with another episode of Content Briefly. Very excited to be chatting with Casey Hickey, Senior Director of Brand and Content, that's gonna be one of my first questions- [laughs]...
• 3:07
  at Attentive. Casey, thank you so much for being here. Would you mind introducing yourself? Tell us a little bit about who you are and some of the work you've been up to over the past couple of years. Yeah.
• 3:17
  It's so great to be on this podcast, Jimmy, and finally talk in real life. Super stoked to be here. Like you mentioned, I'm Senior Director of Brand and Content. It's actually a newer expanded role that I'm taking on.
• 3:29
  I've been actually leading content marketing at Attentive for almost four years now, which if you've worked at a startup feels like forever, and it's been a real fun ride. Of course, never a dull day.
• 3:43
  You know, came in here to develop, grow, and mentor a content team, really help establish like what content does at Attentive, content not just as a service, but as a program, and, you know, been a key driver of many of our campaigns, some of the most impactful business, you know, oriented campaigns, our holiday marketing campaigns, you know, research and reports, of course a lot of sales enablement and our kind of ongoing day-to-day editorial calendar.
• 4:13
  Okay. So many questions based on what you just said. Yeah. Maybe first though, would you just give us a brief overview of Attentive? Kind of what's the product? Who's your customer? Yeah.
• 4:22
  So Attentive started as an SMS marketing platform a couple years ago. We've expanded into email, and now we've really leaned into AI as a key differentiator.
• 4:34
  So we say that we are an AI-powered mobile marketing platform that delivers really highly personalized experiences to consumers.
• 4:43
  So our customers are primarily retail brands, also D2C mid-market brands, but ultimately we are in the business of helping businesses better communicate, engage, and convert their customers. Got it. Okay, cool.
• 4:58
  Yeah, I was curious about the D2C thing 'cause I saw when I was on the site this morning the, uh, Black Friday, Cyber Monday stuff going on.
• 5:04
  We're recording, say, September 10th, so I'm guessing like that's probably a big focus for the next two and a half months for you, right? Yeah.
• 5:12
  Black Friday, Cyber Monday is our Super Bowl, you know, the biggest business moment for many of our customers. You know, I said that retail is a big category for us, but we work with a lot of different types of brands.
• 5:24
  We're also in the travel and hospitality space, media and entertainment, so we also... You know, we have a, a vertical-focused business as well.
• 5:31
  But yes, we work with a ton of massive, massive retailers, and this is their huge moment. I will say that my team spends our summer working on our holiday campaign, and so that launched. Thank goodness.
• 5:47
  [laughs] We are all very relieved, and now we're continuing obviously to drip out content that's super relevant both for our existing customers, we work really closely with our customer success team to make sure that all of our guidance and recommendations and best practices are aligned, and then of course with prospects who some of them are looking to make a switch.And we really wanna highlight how we can help them really ramp up quickly and drive a massive business impact.
• 6:13
  I love that. Okay, you mentioned you've been leading content there for four years. Could you give us- Yeah...
• 6:19
  I mean, I know it's probably difficult to sum up four years in a minute or two, but could you give us a taste of, okay, you arrive at Attentive, what's going on with content, and then give us kind of an overview of what's happening now?
• 6:30
  Yeah, totally. So when I first joined Attentive, there was an existing team in place, and I was really hired to help the team really, like, up-level how they operate.
• 6:40
  So I would say that, like at a lot of companies probably, content starts out as a service provider. Like, sales needs a case study, events needs a deck. You know, somebody needs to write some website copy.
• 6:52
  And so the team was really, really reactive. Like, everything was just like, "Somebody asked me for something, so I'm gonna do it [chuckles] because they told me."
• 7:01
  So a lot of what I've done is actually shift that perception of content just being, like, a service provider and more of a partner and a thought leader.
• 7:10
  Content to me is obviously a really powerful lever, and you can use it in so many different ways, but I think at the end of the day, the biggest hurdle for us was to get to that point where we developed really strong cross-functional relationships where instead of coming to us and saying, like, "Well, we just need another white paper," you know, people would come to us and say, like, "Hey, we're having this problem or this challenge, and let's figure out how do we solve this problem with content."
• 7:37
  And then I will say when I first started, we were using WordPress, and we were taking on a re-platform, and as part of that, just, like, reimagining, like, our website presence.
• 7:49
  So a huge, huge part of my role was also really figuring out how do we build more of our presence on the internet and use SEO as really a really powerful lever.
• 8:01
  So building out that function was also a big part of, of my role as well. Okay. Okay, that's so interesting.
• 8:09
  You know, when you were introducing yourself, I had written down a note that I wanted to ask you about, content as a program versus content as a service- Yeah...
• 8:16
  which you just started getting into, and I would love to dive a little bit deeper into that because this comes up all the time.
• 8:21
  Like, in the Slack group, for example, like, this is a common theme that comes up every now and then where a content person feels like they or their team is just being stretched a little thin, and they have their own goals, but it's hard to work towards those when there's all these requests coming in.
• 8:34
  Mm-hmm. But there's this balance to strike where if content is needed across the org, that's great.
• 8:41
  It's great to support other teams 'cause they are also working in general towards the same goals that you are, like try to get more customers in the door. Yeah.
• 8:49
  Can you talk a little bit about how you maintain that balance? I mean, I could imagine like a really str- like imagine like a spreadsheet. It's like how many- Yeah... how much of the resource goes to the service?
• 8:57
  How much goes to our own programs? I'm sure it's probably not quite that clean and simple, but how do you think about kinda maintaining that balance? Yeah, totally. And that's a great question.
• 9:07
  And I hired a principal copywriter who has been a phenomenal leader and partner on the service end. One of the things that I really care deeply about is not calling it service, but calling it support. Mm. I like it.
• 9:21
  And so again, kind of like positioning her as a partner as opposed to a service provider I think is really important.
• 9:29
  I know that's like internal branding, but I think it's been really critical for us to really create an intake process that isn't just like, "Here's the deadline, here's what I need, do it."
• 9:39
  [chuckles] And more like- Yeah... "Here's what I'm looking for. Here's what I'm thinking about. I've started maybe like a rough draft or a skeleton.
• 9:47
  I need to, you know, like up-level this," or, "This is the goal that we're trying to hit."
• 9:52
  And the part of our intake process is actually like working with the requester to understand their request and then to w- figure out the right, you know, content solution.
• 10:03
  And I think there's also a balance too of something that takes a lot of thought, a lot of flow time, and is really, really critical to the business versus something where we can actually, and I'm sure you'll ask me questions about this, but where we can rely on like an AI partner- Mm...
• 10:17
  to help the person get as close as possible to what they're looking for and where we're coming in as polish.
• 10:24
  I think a lot of our work has also been to create guidelines and standards and, you know, establish the tools that other people can use, where, again, if something's not gonna be seen by every single customer, or if we're not publishing it on our website, we can give people, like, templates and guidelines and empower them to do some of that work as well.
• 10:45
  We can make it easier for them. But at the end of the day, it's-- we haven't figured it all out. I don't think anybody has because we are still the people who everyone comes to- Yeah...
• 10:56
  when they need a piece of content, and sometimes they don't come to us, and we wish they did. So yeah, there's that too. Yeah. That's interesting. How is the company structured?
• 11:04
  Like, are all the content folks centralized on your team? In some companies, there might be content people spread out across different parts of the org- Yeah... and there's sort of like a matrix thing happening.
• 11:15
  What, what does that look like at Attentive? Yeah. So we do have a tech writing team, and we have a customer education team, and they sit within the customer success org.
• 11:26
  So that content, like our help center, for example, is owned by them, but everything that we create from a marketing perspective does live within my team. That doesn't mean that we're the only people writing content.
• 11:40
  You know, like, our growth marketing folks are writing nurture emails. Product marketing creates content.
• 11:45
  But we've spent a lot of time trying to figure out the right processes and frameworks for people where, you know, for example, like all-- we have a web copy process that's been established in the last two years, I would say, where, you know, there was a time where, like, product marketing would just write one copy, and then we'd publish it.
• 12:03
  [chuckles] Right. Right. And now, you know, we have a framework and a process for that. We do have product marketers who are writing case studies.
• 12:10
  So they're-- it's not all on my team, but I would say a good chunk of all marketing content goes through my team. Got it. Got it. That makes sense. Yeah.
• 12:19
  Is it fair to say that-Creating a little bit of healthy friction is actually good for your role in supporting other parts of the org. Right, like you kinda mentioned- Mm-hmm...
• 12:29
  helping them flesh out their own ideas, 'cause I could imagine, like, you know, what if sales comes to you and says, "Hey, we need some sales enablement." And you say, "Okay, we'll do it."
• 12:37
  And then they're like, "Oh, that was easy. We'll just do that more often." You know? Yeah.
• 12:41
  So it sounds like you've, like, the, maybe healthy friction isn't the right word, but creating some good process around that feels like a key part of creating a boundary for your own team, but then also, like, helping the other teams understand that you have other things to do besides support them.
• 12:57
  Yeah, for sure. I love hearing from sales and trying to figure out, like, where there are gaps.
• 13:03
  To be honest with you, we have created so much content, and one of our biggest challenges has been making sure that it's packaged and distributed in the most effective way, and that people- Hmm. Oh, interesting...
• 13:16
  realize that it even exists.
• 13:19
  So we launched a resource center, think it was about a year ago, and so we basically, like we have a blog, we have like a guides and reports section of our website, and then we created this resource hub that was like another way to package content up, and we worked really closely with sales and CS to really understand, like, what are the types of questions they get most often, like, what are kind of like the core themes of their conversations, and then, like, how can we basically cross-pollinate a lot of the content that already exists.
• 13:51
  Like, we have, you know, case studies and videos and reports and guides and checklists and blog posts that are like all on the theme of why SMS, as an example. Hmm.
• 14:01
  And obviously for, you know, conversations that sales is having with prospects that are, like, much newer to that channel, like, it's great to have all that in one place.
• 14:10
  Then we need to make sure that that's reflected in Highspot as well.
• 14:14
  And so I think that, yes, like, it's good to have a healthy friction in the sense that, like, sometimes we say no, but so many times we're like, "Oh, you're asking me for this.
• 14:25
  We have, like, these four things that are very similar."
• 14:28
  And then in that back and forth, it also helps us uncover, like, okay, but they're looking for something really specific that might be missing, and then we either can optimize an existing piece of content, we get an idea for how we can, like, better distribute this content and frame it up for them, or we're like, "Oh, actually, like, this is an opportunity.
• 14:46
  We need to create something net new." We sync up with our product marketing team, 'cause, like, maybe there's a way that we're, like, not telling the product story that we should be.
• 14:54
  So I think a lot of it comes from these conversations, too. I never wanna just, like, straight up say no to people. I always wanna get down to, like, the nuts and bolts of, like, what is it you're really asking for?
• 15:06
  And sometimes it's, like, a discoverability problem, sometimes it's a gap, and sometimes it's just, like, how they're say, talking about something and how we're talking about something, and we need to, like, bridge those things together.
• 15:16
  Yeah, that's so interesting. I feel like what you're describing sounds to me like a challenge that larger companies probably have more so than smaller companies.
• 15:26
  I don't know exactly how big Attentive is, but as I was doing my pre-podcast research, I saw that- Mm-hmm... the company's, like, Series E has raised like 800-something million dollar.
• 15:36
  I mean, there's, like, well, one, the company's been around for a long time, you know. Mm-hmm. Two, well-resourced.
• 15:42
  But then as the company grows, the, you know, there's more people, there's more opportunities for communication to either, you know, strengthen the business or create gaps. So it's just- Yeah...
• 15:52
  interesting, um, just, just an observation, just, like, those challenges may only appear at a certain stage in the company's life cycle, and for younger companies, those gaps may not have appeared yet. Yeah.
• 16:04
  I will say, you mentioned well-resourced, and I do feel like we are a bigger company, but that said, our content team is pretty small, and we are ruthless prioritizers.
• 16:15
  Like, when I look at a piece of content or an opportunity, a project, whatever it is, I'm always like, "What is the potential impact of this? What's the risk in not doing this? And how resource intensive will it be?"
• 16:28
  Yeah. And I am constantly, like, reshuffling those things, and of course, like, as content marketers, like, we have to be really agile, you know?
• 16:35
  Something's happening in the industry, our customers need to know about it. We need to make sure that our customers know that we're on top of it.
• 16:42
  And so I can't just be like, "Well, we're working on this thing, so, like, we don't have time."
• 16:46
  But some of these projects, you know, like our holiday campaign, we can't just say, "No, we're not gonna do a holiday campaign this year." [laughs] Right, right.
• 16:54
  And there's so many, of course, moving parts of design, you know, with our growth marketing team.
• 16:59
  So I think my team, and I think that this was one of the questions you had mentioned, but my team is only two full-time content marketers. Oh, okay. That's quite a bit smaller than I was expecting. Yeah.
• 17:10
  Well, so there's two full-time content marketers, senior content marketing managers. We have a senior content marketing manager.
• 17:17
  Her whole job is SEO, and she works across the entire website, so not just content, but our entire web presence. We work with an SEO agency. I have a principal copywriter, one single copywriter for all.
• 17:30
  [laughs] She's amazing. So we're quite small, and we have to prioritize a lot. We can simply not say yes to everything that we're asked to do. Yeah. Okay, that's so interesting.
• 17:41
  You know, actually, I wrote a blog post that I just published on the Superpath blog yesterday, and one of the things- I just read it. I know which one you're talking about. Oh, yeah.
• 17:48
  [laughs] I just find it interesting, like, more money does not necessarily equal better content, and in fact, well-resourced is a challenge of its own, you know? Mm-hmm.
• 17:57
  So actually having a small team that forces you to prioritize, one, it just, you know, reinforces the discipline, right, to, like, make sure everyone's working on, like, the most impactful things.
• 18:05
  But two, probably saves some headaches down the road, you know? [laughs] Like- Yep...
• 18:10
  if you do too much net new just because you have the ability to do it, you know, like two years from now, like do you have technical- Yeah...
• 18:17
  SEO problems and site architecture problems, and does everything need to be refreshed 'cause the rankings have dropped?
• 18:22
  And, like, it just creates this whole new discussion that could potentially be avoided by just being more disciplined with your prioritization, which is really cool.Yeah, for sure.
• 18:31
  I mean, I feel like there's, like, this quote that I've seen, heard in the past of, like, you know, "Creativity needs boundaries," and, like, creativity thrives in boundaries, and I do think there's something to that of knowing that we...
• 18:42
  I always tell my team, like, we can do anything, but we can't do everything, and so knowing which things are gonna drive the biggest impact is so critical.
• 18:51
  And we've seen this because, you know, there were times that we were publishing more, and what we were seeing was, like, hey, like, this piece of content, we spent this much time writing it.
• 19:01
  We had, like, seven people review it. We published it, and then, like, 100 people read it. You know? Mm-hmm. Right.
• 19:09
  And then, so I'm try- we've just been getting better and better at attuning to, like, what is the most important content that we could be creating?
• 19:17
  And, like, let's not waste our time on anything that doesn't meet this threshold.
• 19:21
  And I think over time, we've gotten better at kind of sussing that out and asking all the right questions in the brief process, where we've shut things down, where we're like, "You know what?
• 19:32
  There's nothing interesting here. This has already been said before. We don't have anything unique to offer here." And then we just say, "No." We just don't do it, so. That's so cool.
• 19:42
  It's, it's so rare, at least in my own personal experience, it's so rare to come across a project and then just say, "No, I'm not gonna do it."
• 19:49
  You know, like, just removing something from your to-do list is so incredibly refreshing, especially if you've come into it and assess, like, do I really need to do this? Is it just another task on my list?
• 19:58
  Probably something we could all, companies and individuals alike, learn from there. I am curious about the brand component of your job. I'm imagining a Venn diagram with brand on one side- Mm-hmm... content on the other.
• 20:10
  There's some overlap, and then there's, you know, quite a bit that's not. You know- Yeah... brand is its own thing also. Could you talk a little bit about what brand means in the context of your role? Yeah, totally.
• 20:20
  So I'm super excited. This is a totally new role, new transition for me, and so we're actually bringing our content and brand design teams together.
• 20:28
  The thing that's interesting to me is that brand has always been such a critical differentiator for companies, but increasingly, I think it's becoming even more so.
• 20:40
  So to me, it's that overlap between the company narrative and the storytelling and how you show up, but it's not just words and design.
• 20:51
  It really is a reflection of your entire team's interactions, your company's and, you know, touchpoints.
• 20:59
  So I think it's an interesting question because I think to a certain extent, everybody at the company owns brand, but we are just the ones that help, like, shepherd and shape it along and give it sort of, like, the feel, and we do that through visuals, through words, obviously.
• 21:17
  But I don't think brand is like, oh, it lives over here with this one team. Right. But I think that way about content, too, is like, content is not just, you know, like, the posts that you publish.
• 21:30
  It's so much a reflection of who you are as a company and how you think about the world and the industry around you.
• 21:38
  So yeah, it's really exciting, and I'm super new to it, and it's something I've done before in other roles, but I'm really excited to get more closer to that area. Yeah, yeah. That's really cool.
• 21:49
  So are there brand or are there people on your team, I guess, way to phrase it, that are thinking more about visuals, design, other kind of brand things, not just text content is what I was gonna say.
• 22:00
  That sounds demeaning. I mean like- Oh, yeah... thinking about things besides the content itself. Yeah.
• 22:05
  So we have a full brand design team, and I'll plug that I'm actually hiring for a director of brand design and creative, so- Oh, cool... super excited to find somebody awesome there.
• 22:15
  But yeah, one of the things that I love about Attentive is that we have a really strong brand, and it's something that we're really known for in the B2B space.
• 22:26
  Like, we do things in a really creative kind of consumer way, and we also are very intentional about our brand, you know, in a sea of sort of, like, purple and blue tech companies, we're yellow, and we're very intentional about it, and our tone and our ethos is, like, very friendly, very conversational.
• 22:48
  And that comes through, like, all of the things that we do both online and in person.
• 22:52
  We do a ton of in-person events, and so I'm super excited to be hiring somebody at this point in time because we are entering this, like, totally new world of, like, AI on the one hand, but then, like, of course, on just the industry side, on the other hand, is, like, search and discoverability and, like, brand just being so critical and, and being so opinionated and thoughtful and not just sort of, like, the old way, I guess.
• 23:21
  Yeah. Okay, I'm really glad you mentioned that, actually, because one of the things I was gonna ask you about was competition in your space. This is not a world I know well.
• 23:29
  I'm assuming there's other companies who offer products that do roughly similar things. There's only, you know, so many keywords. There's only so many spots on a SERP. Yeah. Brand feels like the differentiator.
• 23:40
  Like, that can be the way that Attentive or, or other companies, too, in different spaces can- Yeah...
• 23:46
  set themselves apart, like, make sure that their potential customers remember them when it comes time to make that decision or kind of stay in the orbit, and maybe that takes a long time, could take years.
• 23:56
  Stay in the orbit- Yeah... of Attentive through content, events, social, freemium products- Yeah... or, you know, whatever else until the time comes. Totally. Yeah.
• 24:06
  I mean, of course, like, you know, when I think about content and what the things that kind of, like, are our secret sauce, obviously, like, unique insights, like, our subject matter expertise, like, our data, all of those things are, like, original to us.
• 24:21
  But beyond that, exactly what you said, like, we differentiate as a brand, and it's such a mushy thing.
• 24:28
  It's, like, how, how y- we make people feel, the campaigns that they remember, the interactions that they've had with their customer success manager.
• 24:37
  All of those things definitely play into it.And I'm a big believer in, like, you're not gonna win in a feature war, like alone, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 24:46
  Like, everyone's just gonna keep building and building and building, and we're s- in such a dynamic tech environment where those innovations are happening really, really quickly, and like by the time you're working on something, like someone else is definitely already working on something similar trying to figure it out.
• 25:02
  So it's like, where can you pull a big lever? Brand. Well, you know, like those two things have to lock together.
• 25:08
  It's like you have to have the innovation and the technology and those differentiators, but without brand, then you're just in a feature war with like other people. Right. That's so interesting.
• 25:19
  To be honest, brand is not something I've really know experience it. You know, like and it always has, always felt kinda like you said, like a little squishy, but then when you see it, it's like, ugh, that's it.
• 25:29
  You know what I mean? Yeah. Like they... This- Yeah...
• 25:30
  company has done it, and but then behind the scenes, I'm guessing it's like a lot of thought and effort has gone into creating that experience for the person on the other end.
• 25:40
  So like from your perspective, is that brand guidelines, style guide, y- like that- Yeah... type of stuff, is that kinda... Does that make up kinda the backbone of what brand ultimately becomes when it's public-facing?
• 25:52
  Yeah, for sure. I mean, it, it means that like a customer who interacts with their customers success manager, comes to our website, goes to an event from us, attends a webinar.
• 26:02
  When they're having all these engagements with us, like they come away feeling like, one, it's like a consistent experience, and like we are different facets of the same person, right? I guess its tone, right?
• 26:14
  It's like our brand voice, you know, like how we show up is like always consistent, but like we shift a little bit depending on the context, right? Like, there's a different tone on our social media.
• 26:25
  If you attend one of our events, you know, like you get like a slightly different flavor, but at the end of the day, like everything should feel like Attentive.
• 26:33
  And I do feel like, you know, people don't come up to me at conferences and say like, "I read that one blog post you did about like, you know, how to better use segmentation."
• 26:43
  But they do come up to me and they, they say like, "Oh my God, this one campaign that you guys did, like I still remember. It was so cool." Oh, wow.
• 26:49
  And it's like that experience that they remember, and it's like the feeling that they're left with that's really powerful and why we keep investing the resources and doing things like that because they are so meaningful and because they leave that, you know, to your point, lasting impression.
• 27:07
  That's so interesting. I guess I hadn't really considered this, but you'll probably make an impression either way.
• 27:12
  There's the sort of accidental way, and then there's the deliberate way, and maybe the deliberate way- Yeah... is the, that's the brand. Yes, totally. Yeah.
• 27:20
  I mean, it's like we think about all the copy and all the visuals and how they work together, and if we're doing a report online, we're thinking about like how does this show up in in-person experience and how, you know, uh, the swag at our events is reflective of our brand, you know- Yeah...
• 27:38
  as an example. So I think it's all those little bits that add up. I love it. That's so cool. We've covered a lot. I feel like we could cover another hour's worth of stuff. Yeah.
• 27:49
  If you're open to it, Casey, maybe we do a part two sometime where we dive into some of the, the metrics, the reporting, all of that good stuff 'cause I feel like that's probably a whole nother world of stuff that we could dive into.
• 28:00
  It's a whole world of stuff. Yeah. We don't do things unless we're measuring them [laughs] in s- one way or another. Okay.
• 28:08
  Well, if you're open to it, one thing we've been doing is I record a podcast and then I set a reminder for one year, and then I reach back out, and then I'm starting to check in with people now that we've been doing this for a while so that we can continue conversations and then like kinda check in on things we talked- Yeah...
• 28:21
  about last time. I love it. I love it. Um- And I love your last post, the whole doing more with less super resonates with me.
• 28:27
  Like, this idea that we're just like these hamsters in a wheel just like churning, churning, churning, churning. I think about myself and I'm like,
• 28:36
  I do not check a company's website every day to see what their new blog post is. Yeah. [laughs] Right.
• 28:41
  And like 80% of what they publish is probably not being read, and so like it's about that differentiation and like I'd rather spend, you know, three weeks working on a piece of really phenomenal content than just like churn something out just to say we did it.
• 28:55
  Totally. Yeah, the content landscape has just changed so much.
• 28:59
  Like it wasn't that long ago that there was a lot of grumbling about do more with less, and now I kinda feel like actually do more with less is kind of an opportunity.
• 29:06
  I mean, there's, there are casualties to it, like the layoffs, the budget cuts, like that stuff is really tough.
• 29:11
  But the do more with less thing is sort of an opportunity to let people, you know, kind of have more ownership over the projects that they work on, think, kind of like you described earlier, like really hard about what is worth my time, like what should we be- Mm-hmm...
• 29:25
  should be doing, not just like, "Oh, we've got budget and a list of keywords. Let's go," you know? And think about the recipient of all this content.
• 29:33
  Like, they're getting like 50,000 emails from you that all sound the same. They're seeing your- [laughs] You know, it's like, just put yourself in their shoes.
• 29:40
  I think being like really buyer-oriented and customer-focused is so critical. It's like, read this piece of content, like would you care? [laughs] Right. Right.
• 29:50
  If it doesn't resonate with you, like why should somebody else care? Totally. Totally. Casey, where can we send people to connect with you? We'll obviously link to Attentive. Would encourage people- Yeah...
• 30:00
  to go check out the content, see what it's like now that you've kinda heard the behind the scenes. We'll link to your job opening too if it's still open. Yeah, awesome. Um- Yeah... we'll put that in there.
• 30:06
  And then for you personally, LinkedIn, Twitter, personal website or anywhere else we can send folks? Yeah. LinkedIn is great. I'm not much of a Twitter user these days, but [laughs] still- That's so funny...
• 30:17
  still lives in the archives. I've always asked people, like where should we link, and everyone used to say Twitter, and now nobody says Twitter. So I guess we should just ask people what's your like LinkedIn handle.
• 30:26
  [laughs] Yeah. LinkedIn is great. I love connecting with people on LinkedIn. Cool. We'll make sure there's a link, uh, in the show notes to your, to your LinkedIn, and Casey, thank you so much.
• 30:35
  Seriously, amazing to meet you. Uh, you've been very generous with your time and your wisdom, so we really appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks so much, Jimmy. It was great to connect. Awesome. Take care. You too. Bye.
• 30:48
  [outro music]