Latest / The Psychology of Relationships / The Truth About Attachment Styles: Why You’re Not Just Anxious or Avoidant w/ Lauren Korshak

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The Truth About Attachment Styles: Why You’re Not Just Anxious or Avoidant w/ Lauren Korshak · The Psychology of Relationships

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm Julie Craftscheck, and I'm UASU.
• 0:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is The Psychology of Relationships.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Attachment styles have become one of the most talked about concepts and modern dating and relationships, but they're also one of the most misunderstood.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's easy to label yourself as anxious or avoidant after seeing a few videos online, yet the reality of how we connect with others is far more nuanced.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Our attachment patterns aren't fixed.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: They can evolve through our experiences, healing, and the relationships we build.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: In this episode, License Marriage and Family Therapist, Lauren Corshack joins us to explore what attachment theory actually tells us about love and connection.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: We discuss how attachment patterns develop, why even securely attach people could experience insecurity, and how understanding these patterns can help us approach ourselves and our partners with
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Rather than using attachment styles as labels or excuses, Lauren shares how they can serve as a framework for understanding our needs for closeness, safety, and connection.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: By becoming more aware of our patterns, we can learn to respond differently and create healthier, more secure relationships.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Remember to subscribe to the Psychology of Relationships on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: And if this episode shifted how you think about attachment and connection, we'd love a rating or review.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is the Psychology of Relationships, and you're listening to an episode that just might change the way you show up for love.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Enjoy!
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: So much to learn about yourself, isn't there?
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not just a personality test.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like everything you've got to feel it and you've got to feel it.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: So today we've got to feel what attachment theories are.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's what we're learning.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I'm in school.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: about myself something new today.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's like how we behave the way we do in relationships and according to psychology today I'll just do a quick summary.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Our self attachment affects everything from our partner selection to how well our relationships progress to sadly how they end.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: That is why recognizing our attachment pattern can help us understand our strengths and vulnerabilities in a relationship.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: An attachment pattern is established in early childhood attachments and
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, so John Bull, we came up with the term, and then there were some experiments in 1965 by Mary Eansworth and American Canadian Developmental Psychologist.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But she did a series of experiments called the strange situation experiments where she had a child in a room and the child was being our team, was observing this child with her caregiver, their mother, and in most cases, their mother would leave the room and the mother would come back.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so they observed these different ways that the child would respond to the mother coming back into the room.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: group those into four different categories.
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And those are the strategies that the children kind of engaged in to like reconnect with their mother when she returned to the room.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: So by the virtue of that alone are attached with styles innate in us.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're just born with them.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a combination of temperament and the way that our caregivers attune to us is as much as we know.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's you can have different attachment styles with different caregivers.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: primary caregiver is probably going to have the strongest influence on you, but you can have a secondary caregiver who you have a different relationship with.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: You might have an insecure relationship with your primary caregiver and a secure relationship with someone else.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we have these different prints and patterns in us and they can be activated at different times, which as we'll talk about some different relationships, we show up differently.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: So basically, if you're a baby and you start crying and you're a parent leaves you, like, is that like how they would figure?
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think I've read somewhere like if you start crying.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, the parent would come back into the room.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the secure child would be sued by the mom returning.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: The crying and be sued, and they would just kind of transition easily back to connection with the mother.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the anxious child would claim to the mom and they would it would be really hard for them to be sued.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then the avoidant child, their pattern was that the mom would come back and they would be really dismissive and show a lack of emotion and kind of like fuck you love me.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's how we interpret it a lot actually in dating too, right?
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think avoidant attachment style.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And actually, I think then some ways that some of the literature that's been written on a boy in attachment kind of is blaming in that way too.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Their whole system shuts down on the outside.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: But internally, the avoidant child is experiencing more anxiety, actually than the anxious.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: We can't just laugh at that.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: Back up for anybody who's not familiar with attachment styles, let's go through all four of them.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: What are they?
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's define them.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the three that we've talked about so far is secure attachment, which is sort of like the gold standard
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure it talks about it's being like what you want to have and like loop for a secure partner in that kind of thing But we all have elements of security in us.
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really just like how can we cultivate that and bring that out in relationship?
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then there's anxious and development attachment style, which is the second one that I talked about and then the third one is avoidant or dismissive and then the last one is Forgotten one.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: The forgotten one exactly is disorganized.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's been called disorganized and now it's called fearful avoidance
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: and it has elements of both the anxious and the awareness and that's why they call it disorganized.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: But usually that one is more the result of either big tea trauma like either your parent has trauma and response to you that those responses or their consistently not attuned to you or hostile when you win the child to reach us to them for connection.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I read somewhere that like 50% of
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: And again, these numbers vary depending on resource you go to.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then it was like 20% are anxious, 25% avoidant.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then like 5% of this fearful.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Is there like any truth those numbers?
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Or like how do you look at the market?
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a really large percentage of secure.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's myself.
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, and when you look at the dating scene in San Francisco, you're like, where are they?
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: married.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what the book attached says.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I see conflicting research out there.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And for the most part, I hear 7% for disorganized attachment style.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like that.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why it's kind of the forgotten one.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then I saw something earlier today.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was like 20% are fearful of weighting.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, and then I noticed, like, in stealing some research for this podcast, to just taking quizzes on different websites.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: My attachment style is just totally different.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the measures that they're using.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, they're not, don't seem to be standard.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: In psychology, we have like an adult attachment interview that's sort of a standard that you can use to evaluate people with attachment styles, but these online quizzes and the, you know, the measures people are using to come up with these statistics.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I think, would have to be looked at a little more closely.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for us to get a job.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're not based on black because like I took that one.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: that was like your secure overall.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: However, you do show like fair of abandonment and like those types of insecure traits but I'm like generally like okay to let someone be and do their thing.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: So there's like yeah specs of insecurity that I possess.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: So because you're human.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's always interesting because it's like, I've also seen studies that's like, yeah, all the married people are secure.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and everyone that's left in the dating pool, these experiences are voiding.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: But like, honey bias there, like, I guess it's interesting.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, we spent all these other episodes and conversations thinking about what we're doing right and wrong in our dating life.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: But does it all come down to the way we're raised and to we just blame our parents?
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:43
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 7:44
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it can be so validating and normalizing to read about an attachment sound, be like, oh, I do all those things.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then to start to have this self-awareness about it and realize like, I'm doing this thing and actually that these thoughts that I'm having about this person aren't true, they're just reflective of my attachment style.
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And once we start to have that awareness, we have choice about how we act versus just acting, according to these imprints that were imprinted on us, at a young age, we can have some choice
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: having working towards more security and relationships.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: So, if you're feeling insecure, for example.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, let's go that way.
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Is it like you're not with the right partner, or is it come down to the fact that like, like the way you were raised is causing this, and it's really something that's going on with you, and it may not have anything to do with the partner.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Why is it a combination of the two?
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: That is a complex question every day.
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I gave the easy answer out.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, if it really just depends on the circumstance and each person has to, that's why identifying your attachment style is really important because then you can start to see, okay, this is the way that I consistently act in most situations or this is my tendency or one of my tendencies, you know yourself well enough to say, okay, this part's me.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then what is the other person?
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And by understanding and having an awareness of attachment styles, you can more easily see the other person.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like, for example, so the book attached talks a lot about this.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I, you know, one of my clients reads it.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have all these revelations.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's see, author of that again, do you know what I mean?
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And near Levine, if I'm nice and I quickly and there's also a woman who's a co-author, I believe.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think read it in a long time, my disclaimer.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: From near Levine and Rachel Heller.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rachel Heller, I have thoughts on the book, but I won't show those right now.
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, so one of my clients read it recently and is like,
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: everything makes so much more sense in my dating life.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now I can look back at the people I've dated and I can identify which ones were avoidance and which is because that book focuses a lot on just identifying, actually.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: It seems to me to single out like identifying avoidance attachments style quite a bit.
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: The directive in that book is like seek out secure partners and the attachment.
• 10:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that book is also where they say that the dating pool is most secure.
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's where I think I saw that.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's like, I think I actually got like a very strong anxious.
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then I was surprised by talking to another quiz, and it was like, oh, you're at your secure with like little anxiety.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: So in the book, obviously secure, again, as a goal standard and secure attachment people can be with anybody.
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: They can be with, of way-din, an anxious, yeah.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: But isn't that fucking annoying to be like, that's a pure person and you're like dealing with all these anxious people?
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really understand how that would be compatible.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, love is, I guess, the glue that holds people together.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, chemistry is sparked, and that's the thing, I guess, about secure attachment is like you kind of I've been flow with, I mean, relationships, I think are just annoying in general, right?
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no way around that.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: But if you have enough good and enough common with a person and enough chemistry, it makes it worth it.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: But Julie, to your point, though, I feel like attachment styles can be relative to who you're dating, right?
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Or what situation you're in?
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: So maybe sometimes you're more secure and anxious and other times.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel the same way about the love language as my change is depending on who I'm with because I'm meeting different things.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I think the science here is saying it's rooted.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's rooted off of the words that we were saying.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to get to.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's rooted in that.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like I said, you can have different touchments styles and different caregivers.
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And what they found is like there is correlation between being an infant and having an touchments style and your adult relationships, but it's not totally direct.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: And some of the ways that it's grouped at a young ages as your attachment is described as like organized or disorganized security and secure.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when you get into the dating pool, a age or just as you've become older, we look more at like approach and avoidance patterns and focus a little more on that.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: One of the main things I think that attachment predicts there is something around like having more secure attachment predicts just like sort of a general sense of happiness.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: and ease.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: One thing that all of the different sources out there do you have in common is that they all say you can work towards secure attachment, okay, and you can do it individually or you can do it with a partner.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's whole forms of therapy that are based on this idea, like a lot of the couples work out there, emotionally focused therapy EFT, which is something that I've trained in and then packed, which stands for like a psychological approach to couples therapy.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Those are all about developing secure bonds within a relationship.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Those are maybe married people that actually don't have a totally secure bond, but they develop it through taking risks, sharing with each other, and just been starting to trust.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'd imagine if you're with someone that's secure to your question earlier, like, why would they want to be with you?
• 12:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's a lot of other things beyond just here.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Patterns, but I think also it's like a lot of times like I would imagine pregnant around that secure people would be able to like empathize with a partner more and like have an understanding of them and then I would imagine it would help someone that may be more insecure or avoidant to actually be with someone's secure that would help them get to a more secure estate.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: Can we have a little bit more clarity on the different attachment styles in terms of
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: how they present themselves in a relationship.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you're obviously secure, we can skip, we know it's a side.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: But if you're anxious, what does that attachment style look like?
• 13:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, like, how's it show up in dating or relationship?
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's always like, I need to know what my partner's doing all the time.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: I got to be updated.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: that can be a part of it.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hyper vigilance can be a part of it always looking for cues and trying to read into situations and maybe reading the worst in a situation is part of it.
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anxious individuals can tend to project family history on relationships.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: There are some of their sort of protest behaviors that are called can be like when separation happens.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Instead of saying like, oh, I miss you, it can be like protesting by blaming or criticizing the person like you always pull it.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: way or I'm kind of attacking because there's this feeling of like threat or abandonment.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: It comes out of anxiety.
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, totally.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sad of anxiety.
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: What about like looking for the other ball to drop like waiting for that or rejection sensitivity?
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think the parts I've experienced more anxious side is like almost like not expecting but like being like, I hope like plans don't get canceled.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, oh, is this person going to text me back?
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like anxiety
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, they're doing something else.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: So could shop in those ways.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: So making up stuff with stories in here.
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: When things aren't happening, filling in the place.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, that's the question though, is like, even if you're secure, like, I would assume that's bound to happen.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely, we all are prone to sometimes feeling anxious about text messages.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Regardless of attachment style and certain people are going to trigger you differently than other people in certain contexts and sometimes in your life you're going to be more susceptible to everything in your life is going wrong and then you've got one thing that's going right you're going to you know and it's someone doesn't text you back and that's the thing that's going right that's going to have more weight than if you're feeling really great in other areas.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a really good point.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think in online dating or in modern dating in general, I think everyone's like anxious attachments out because you can get on their social media.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: You can track their GPS.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: You have all this information without actually having them tell you this information.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the best point.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I just think that the conditions in the environment is not right to cultivate secure attachment.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: with all of the online dating apps and so the way that we cultivate secure relationships is through having them and through meeting people in person but these environments where there's like no accountability to anyone and you have all of this information at your fingertips but it's not grounded in any sort of relationship.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of think of it as like we're trying to like form relationships but we're all driving on separate cars.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like the conditions are like, and like a son is shining in your face and you're like stressed out and trying to form a connection with the person driving in the car next to you.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then you've got, you know, you're trying to do all of these things.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So people are trying to cut it.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Super stressful.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think what's
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: interesting like before we did this podcast like I thought for sure I had like anxious attachment because of a lot of these like modern dating things right then it realized other people were also experiencing and I imagine I took this quiz and it was like no you're secure and I'm like wait what?
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was like one area, right?
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was like a round of fair of abandonment, like I mentioned.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: But then when I started to like read all the different things about like having this ink just style a lot of it was like, and suddenly checking up on your partner and looking for like those types of things and I think it's just like, can shop in some ways but not necessarily all there's probably a spectrum of like how ink just you are.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, one of the quizzes that I found online today was there was a woman named Diane Pool who had the website and she specialized in an attachment.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I really liked her quiz.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd found one like that a long time ago and I couldn't find it again today.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: She just shows the percentage you have of each difference style.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you're not just absolutely wide because we aren't.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: We aren't in any way.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you have more of an anxious attachment style,
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: with all of them, there's some common out like whatever attachment saw you have, there's some common things that you can do, but I guess specifically with, and all of them, I would say, involved mindfulness from my perspective.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: And with anxious attachment in particular, you're creating stories, right?
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's recognizing that tendency to fill in the blanks, having more awareness about your stories that you tend to.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: put out there and having, and this is similar for avoidant too, and also anxious and avoidant styles tend to flip, so you might be anxious and want to relationship and avoidant interesting.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: And anxious and avoidant should be together, right?
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: They often are together.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: They grab a t-shirt, and they flip back and forth.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like this magnetism.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's true, because the more anxious you are, you probably drive the other person to be more avoidable.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, advice for us.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And both are kind of uncomfortable with a certain level intimacy because in the caregiving relationship, they weren't received with that sort of like intimacy.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the avoidant person is more comfortable with the bit of distance.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And even though the anxious person tends to be the pursuer, they're also a little uncomfortable when someone's coming towards them because that's more intimacy than that.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, too.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they're used to being in the role of reaching.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: So what about the avoidance?
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: How does that show up in dating in relation to what does that look like?
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so that's also known as the dismissive type.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that can be like pulling away not showing as much emotion.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: The pulling away like you said you like it can be interpreted as kind of a fuck you response.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: But under that, it's really, and this is like what maybe a more secure perspective on it would be, and this is part of like what we can do with our attachment cells reframe what's happening.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: A more secure perspective might just be to notice, oh, that person's feeling really overwhelmed and they're need to cope with their emotions.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so instead of making it about ourselves to recognize that that's their coping mechanism.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: That being said, they still might not be the partner for you, because it's like I can't deal with you if you're constantly doing it.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've wouldn't, it might not necessarily be, because I think I've always in my head, I've always had like there just like they want to be independent.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: They want to do their own, and they might not want to be like in a relationship because of all that.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: But if I'm understanding correctly saying that that might not be the case, they might just be like so, like not knowing how to handle their emotions.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: that they're like stepping back.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're not really capable necessarily of having more intimacy unless they do work on themselves too.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so they might have an interconflict, like part of them, part of most humans wants this deep connection.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But a bigger part of them might feel like, especially if they're unconscious about it, that's unsafe.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even want to go there.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to touch that.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to be rejected and abandoned and met with facility.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
• 20:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's so interesting, because I feel like the, I would think like the people that are scared of rejection would be more anxious, but you're saying it might actually be, they're afraid of rejection, but they're not in touch with the fear.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the anxious person is touched with the fear, their nervous system, common because of that to some extent, whereas the, I mean, and I don't know about with adults, what babies at least, the avoidant, they are just as, their nervous system is just as responsive to the person coming or going, they just don't show it and they've disconnected from it.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: so they're not interested in showing their feelings.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: Which avoidant could be someone who is non-committal?
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: What about ghosting?
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where does that fit in?
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Part of that.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have to decide.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have to decide.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's definitely what fit in probably more with the avoidant, but again, could be anxious or fearful on the disorganized one.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or if we were secure, we could say that maybe they just like went to hospital and...
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, probably one of the insecure styles, they don't have the tools to say what's really going on, which is not an excuse.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think any of this is an excuse because this all can be changed.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: We just have to choose to become conscious of it.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some other things with the avoidant attachment style, the ways that they'll avoid themselves might be like, it might be through alcohol or drug users or something like that, but it also might just be like perusing social media, so that where you're like, oh, they're not responding to me and yet they're on social media, that's an avoidance track.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like anything that just distracts from feelings and emotions is kind of where the avoidant goes.
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when they're activated, I don't even realize that they just are so used to cutting off their emotions.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I feel like dating someone who's avoiding would make me more anxious because they wouldn't be so present.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: But then, at the same time, I've had friends who talk about this.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: People who are anxious in general, look for that anxiety in relationships.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: They don't have it.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: They think the relationship is not going well.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that, like, why am I not worried about where he is?
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: And why am I not questioning those?
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: So you kind of feed into that.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that's also like, that's part of,
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Knowing your attachment activation to like what's the difference between healthy relationship and like love and passion and just like your attachment system being activated and like not confusing the two so because we get primed with these attachment systems to say like okay this is what love is like that's my mom or whatever and I'm used to to feeling this like yearning for connections so that's when love feels like like and instead of being able to just be comfortable with actually intimacy and being connected.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: I read that too though that it was like you are looking for something in a relationship like you're going to find a partner that will give you what you're looking for.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: So if you feel like you're used to being anxious, that's why oftentimes gravitated to the avoidant and we'll find the secure boring or they're just like not.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: The spark isn't there and all of that.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because you've mistaken the anxiety for butterflies.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love it.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of, right.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Why do you think though avoidance are, like, yes, if two avoidance were together, we're just nothing ever happened.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so you kind of nailed it.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's a much more rare pairing.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just a quick way to enter anxious anxious or any combination will secure it.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Even anxious anxious.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like that could get a little,
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: crazy too.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like if both people just had like a lot of neuroses and like constantly talking about things.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think ancient churches are like the love of first sight people.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, like could be high bursts of passion in the beginning and then it dies down and then it becomes really bad.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: can be that and it can be like a little bit, become a little bit codependent where you're just always together and that's true.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: What about the last one?
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, they're full.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: The first odd and wild series.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's beautiful and disorganized, right?
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, so that's like where a parent has either trauma or it responds to the child with hostility, or we're just like there's some neglect there and maybe the parent has depression or mental illness and doesn't really present.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: So how that shows up is in relationship that those will seek closeness, but then those show traits of both.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they'll kind of have a little bit of that anxiety and seek the closeness, but then they'll pull away.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's these mixed messages of like
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, that can be, if you have like a borderline parent, or has it narcissistic parent, or really depressed parent, can seem like erratic behavior or like sudden shifts in the relationship and drama and drama.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: So are you like doomed if you have that study?
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I guess like, I know like secure is the gold standard.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I just say that kind of jokingly, I don't want to make us all feel bad about, like, you know, it's not a treat.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like you read that over and over again.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I guess, is there any benefits to being one of the other two or is it really, like, you are trying to be secure, like, that is the goal.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like you said drama is a big benefit.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: for the other two.
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know anytime we have a challenge and you have to overcome it you walk away with like more self-knowledge, more depth.
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's like the potential of these but I think that it does take like if you have a really strong attachment style and one of these directions like it really requires self-growth and self-work and I think
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I'm so passionate about the work that I do with dating and relationships to make it more accessible for people to say, Hey, I'm struggling with relationships.
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I'd like to help for that because I think that's part of the problem with like the dating pool is that people aren't really willing to just look at themselves and they're quick to ghost or blame other people or be reactive versus blaming on my own words.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, or that's true.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: or what a city or whatever the city is.
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and not look in worse and just keep moving forward.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's part of a void and attachment style, too, right to keep looking for the next thing or idealizing those, both anxious and avoidance and to have these fantasies, these ideals, and so they might be responding to that.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rather than what's right in front of them, and that's what social media and online dating situates, too.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're like, hey, you know, you've got a thousand other options that you're fingertips.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: That will never materialize.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I guess that's the question.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think this is, I would love for someone to like pick up the research here because they're really saying, yeah, Lauren is going to be an artist going to be like, this was the first established 1952, right?
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Which was like the baby aspect and then like the six attachment cells like 1965 or something.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like this is clearly long before modern dating and dating apps and all this and like we were saying in this conversation like how much of this is your attachment
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: technology or the way things are today.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Product of your environment.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you asking me?
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm assuming we have to do a much bigger thesis to understand this fully but I think it's an interesting conversation topic.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's reminding me I did go to a talk that was about this project called Wee and the whole basis of the project is about like restoring the importance of relationships in our society and our culture.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: David Brooks was the person speaking about it and he spoke about how technology has
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: with just less relational values, nurse society, and arise and suicide, or raise an addiction rates.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so he's starting to explore some of those sort of cultural impacts.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I would say also, I mean, I think it would be really cool to study attachment and say, like, how is this affected our attachment style?
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do we show up differently with technology?
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because we all feel it.
• 27:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's obviously, right, like if you didn't have your phone, you weren't waiting for so much, well, I guess you were just like, waiting by a phone, that wasn't your self-confidence.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: a lot of time ago.
• 27:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: I would also argue this.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I have a girlfriend who has never been anxious dating.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's just always been like, he didn't call back.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: I guess he's dizzy.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't interested.
• 28:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: And she was just let things go very easily.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I know her parents and the way they brought her up was
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Every time she have a conflict with a friend at school, and this is like, I remember hearing about this in elementary school.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Her parents would sit her down and be like, let's talk about why Emily is in talking to you anymore.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: And it comes from empathy.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like it comes from, I think someone's going on at home.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: I know you should check up on her.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think you should maybe, you know, to say hi to her more.
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: And she's really carried that throughout her dating life to the point where she doesn't do online dating.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's never done online dating because she was like, don't need online dating.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's like, I just know that's not how I would want to bond with someone or to even meet someone.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: So there is that level of like, it's just innate and that's how you're brought up.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: But I do think modern dating amplifies some like maybe the tiny flames that we had before.
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: Now they're like full blown fires.
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  [SPEAKER_03]: I would agree with that.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a really great example on a great story of like how secure a task.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: as far too, her parents didn't avoid the issue or say, let's try to fix it.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's sit down and talk about it and have a conversation and what can you do and how can you show up differently?
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it sounds like it helps for a let go of what's, you know, when things aren't working out.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's a good example, like someone who shows up in a secure way, and knows ourselves and says, I don't want to put myself in this environment that just doesn't inherently feel valuing to me.
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I do think when people go into that environment, if
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: They might go in feeling a higher degree of security and you start to have these experiences of ghosting or lying or people with their own trauma that are just with these attachment styles who might put it out there upfront and the dating app.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: After you have enough of those experiences, those start to accumulate an imprint you in a different way.
• 31:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a really good point too because we are able to protect.
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• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because I'm like, try to think the flip side of a lot of people we talk to, right?
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Myself included, there's a lot of times, I mean, I think I've gotten a lot better about this over the years, but initially it was always like, what did I do wrong?
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Why didn't this person like me?
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we still hear this all the time, which is basically the polar opposite of what you're saying, your friend did.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Some of that, I mean, I'm sure there's not going to ask you what was in their childhood because that probably depends on so many different factors, although if you have an answer, please let us know.
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I guess like the people that don't like look at it that way.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like they look at it more like what did I do versus like Oh, there's a logical reason or like no big deal.
• 34:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: They didn't like me.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean I can speak for myself My parents ever since I was little would be like don't hang out with that kid.
• 34:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a bad kid Yeah, you know don't talk to this guy because he's a bad guy It was always about the other people So like yeah feeling like oh, I'm just gonna eliminate people from my life more bad more toxic
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: And it was never about, what is really going on their life and how do I relate to them?
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Mine was the same.
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I had a revelation just saying today.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Totally.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then that also internalizes to you, like someone cuts me out of their life that I'm bad.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: It gives you that message.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Both directions versus, yeah, that's very true.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's an interesting thing.
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: More reactive, right?
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's reactive and attachment styles are reactive.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Versus and secure attachment.
• 34:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're coming from maybe your own sense of worth and just approaching it that way.
• 35:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: So my coworker was talking about how she has three children, and the oldest is the most neurotic, and the youngest is the most laid back, and it corresponded to her parenting, but in a different way than I've always associated attachment style.
• 35:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: So basically with her first one, the second he would start crying, she'd be like, at his back and call.
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like always there.
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: So she'd always be dooding on him.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then the third child, the youngest child, basically like, she just did like, oh, you'll you'll figure yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but I don't know does that like it was interesting when she said it because I'm like does that bring up some of my like fair abandonment?
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I always thought like associated someone that was more like fair abandonment of someone that like had their parents always disappear and weren't around Oh, I see it like well with the reverse if it's too much
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: We should the other way.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: We've all heard of helicopter models.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's all about extremes and moderation, right?
• 36:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Dan Seagull, who's done a lot of attachment research and actually has a course where you can learn about your attachment style and rewrite your narrative that I found on the way today too.
• 36:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Also, while doing research, he talks about how that dynamic, especially with a first time mom.
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I know my mom was this way.
• 36:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: she comes rushing to attend to you and she's feeling all this fear about, you know, maybe being a good mom and her own anxiety, so then you receive all of that.
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have this little infant sponge just receiving like all that anxiety?
• 36:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: And anxiety is paired with like love, like love.
• 36:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you're receiving her energy and her words and her attentiveness.
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so that becomes printed in the U.S.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know about it.
• 36:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: So avoidant and anxious, it might not relate to like how often they're around or anything like that.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's more their energy.
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it does it can relate that too, but it's not so such a direct correlation, like if you're neglected, depends on how they tend to you and the frequency.
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: So people can have drastically different childhoods and somehow be in a similar attachment style overall.
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, in some ways, but there are some patterns that you can look at.
• 37:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I guess, do movie three identical strangers?
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I want to.
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: It was on the plane.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that was the one of the three triplets that were separated.
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 37:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: I did not see it.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: It made me think about, I mean, because there are two versus nature.
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Earth's nurture, and they had very different parenting styles.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to ruin the ending, but some of their lives ended up very differently and then they do look at the parenting styles and how that might plan to end the one parenting style they think they take kind of a stronger or harder look at or that I tuned into more was the parent who was like very much about sort of suppressing emotions and not feeling emotions and I think that generally can lead to less secure attachment, for example.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know, there's some patterns that you can find as evidenced by these like the strange situation experiments, but
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think this is an actual statistic, but I do think the youngest are always the most confident.
• 38:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: I always feel that.
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Usually the parents are more sure.
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: More sure, less fearful by that.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like if a parent has this unprocessed fear and emotion that they're bringing into the relationship, that's going to be transferred in somewhere other.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I guess like if you were the youngest and your parents were going through some major trauma and they're alive for like, which is true.
• 38:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's going to affect you.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: The situation makes probably so for the most part, parents have been through it a few times so they are a little more chill.
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Or if you're like the accident child, I could see that work.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can still do also.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Hopefully, if you know you're the accident child.
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, seeing your parents just like for whatever reason, weren't as engaged in your child, like red places, like there's like showing up at sports events, and like the different things that like, you as a child are expecting someone to understand the audience in your, aren't there that's going to have an impact of like how you use this.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: So what are your attachment styles?
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: I know you already said it Julie, but what do you think fundamentally what do you think is the majority?
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think I've actually adapted over time and I mean maybe I just took two different quizzes So there's that also, but like I think I did start off much more insecure
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think I have, you know, gone to therapy, I've like done a lot of self work.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I think I have more transfer to secure.
• 39:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: However, I'm not going to say that I'm like totally void of insecure pattern.
• 39:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think there's definitely, I have a side fear of abandonment that comes out.
• 39:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 39:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's where I show insecure.
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm more like let people do what they want and not concerned about that.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, it's just like one area specifically that I now aware of.
• 39:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: And like I need to remember how that shows up for me.
• 39:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
• 39:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Lori, what about you?
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's always been I've never really been able to identify it so when I first remember taking the quiz was with that a touch book and it told me that I was anxious the quiz on that.
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, this doesn't really mean that it's for me to get to it.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I just want everyone to know their anxious things and what about a touch.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: version two.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it just didn't.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, why do me I don't feel this way.
• 40:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel like I show up this way.
• 40:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I really liked there was a quiz that I had taken and found after that years ago that I don't remember what the results were.
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was trying to find the results, but then I took again today, Diane Pulse test and I really liked that a lot better, because it almost had like, it was quadrants.
• 40:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was like all four of them equally.
• 40:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna do that or something, I don't remember exactly with the portions where but I remember saying this makes a lot more sense to me because I do feel like I have elements of all of these different patterns that show up, depending on who I'm dating, or who you have anywhere done a test.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, I have them.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know which one.
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I'm all of them.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like currently I'm dating someone who's very secure and I have a very anxious attachment style to him because in previous relationships, I've been with anxious people.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I just assume that anxiety, like, oh, who are you seeing tonight, who are you going to be with?
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's also their way of showing that they care about me.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love me, right?
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so because I'm with someone secure, he isn't so much about that.
• 41:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, my free time is my free time.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's not filling in the blank.
• 41:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: To me, it makes me really anxious because I'm like, does he not care about me the way I'm so used to?
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: So as a result of that, it's made me avoid it because I think, well, if I'm so anxious about this
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: It seems like he doesn't really, you know, when I'm doing my free time, then I'm just going to avoid it.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just going to not even tell him what's going on in my life for you more.
• 41:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, so what do you think about that situation?
• 41:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, because sometimes security comes off as, I don't know, and bivalent in a relationship.
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: How would you tell a couple, you know, who comes and sees you, how would you help them get over that?
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, I mean, I mean, I think the first thing, it would be different working with a couple of verses just like, what do you do about it?
• 41:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Trust building starts with talking about the dynamics and being able to, yeah, just know that you can have that conversation and you can share.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so in a couple's therapy session, we would talk about the dynamic that it's at play.
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: and in a really non-blaming way, right?
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And start to explore like, what feelings are driving the dynamic for each of you.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the surface feelings, whether that's anxiety, of the deeper feelings which might be fear, or just like really wanting to connect with this person.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so we're just exploring what dynamics where I play and develop more awareness about that together.
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a mobile.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: was interesting what you just said is you flip between anxious and avoidant.
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: And wasn't that telling that you said earlier that those two flip flop and sometimes the way that someone anxious actually deals with it is to become avoidant.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it was interesting that you kind of said that that was your reaction where your style might be more anxious, but the way it's showing up is avoidant.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would just get my degree now.
• 42:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: and come through.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't really believe Julie used to be a therapist.
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just saying that you're doing that and noticing that you're having that reaction and becoming mindful.
• 43:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is my reaction and trying to go underneath that.
• 43:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do I want to show up here?
• 43:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do I talk about this?
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do I express my feelings?
• 43:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do I suit myself when I'm doing scared?
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do I cope with this anxiety?
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: All of those are different ways to work with it.
• 43:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I have a question.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: we mentioned earlier that it's actually more based on your primary caregiver.
• 43:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've also heard that a lot of times like the ways what you seek in a partner shows up from the opposite gender parent.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: So like things that like I'm gravitated to someone that acts like my father more and I would say my mother was more anxious and my father was definitely more avoiding
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I've always thought that sometimes I seek out people that are more in that lens because I'll be influenced in the attachment I have with my father.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Is there any truth to that or is that told?
• 43:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
• 43:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have seen it grow both in direction, like with people being sort of attracted to the same sex or opposite sex parent patterning, but I don't know.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think but like the edifice combo.
• 44:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to resolve something with the opposite sex parents.
• 44:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of times, like, if somebody you hear a lot about if a father was absent, we were wanting to have daddy issues or whatever, and they call it.
• 44:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that can show up that way.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know any statistics about if it's more frequent, but that's not.
• 44:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: But attachment, though, isn't necessarily based on the opposite.
• 44:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's more primary.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would say usually the strongest imprinting is with the person we have in those contact with, but also some people have really kind of equal contact with both parents.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or more contact with their father than their opposite sex parent than their same sex parents.
• 44:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if there is usually a very strong bond with the mother in particular, because breastfeeding and right that kind of came out of her.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
• 44:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's that touchman is about how we sort of complete that cycle of sort of differentiating or individuating from our parents and feel safe and secure with that in the world.
• 44:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the mom is like a safe haven and then the child gets to venture out and if they're anxious and the mom is doing behaviors or the parents doing behaviors to reinforce that.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: It feels like more scary to explore where a secure child can go out and be separate and then come back and move in and out of connection and transition and in and out of that with more ease.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd be so curious how this differs in different cultures because I know in Chinese culture it's very common for you to be raised by your grandparents.
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, right.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: So your parents basically drop you off ever since you're like a baby and then I've had friends who were raised by their grandparents so there were 16, 17, 18.
• 45:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's their primary care giver.
• 45:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: It'd be so interesting to see how that plays out in their attachment styles.
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: So unlike their actual parents.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm trying to remember, I remember I had an acupuncturist who talked about this with me.
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was saying that Chinese medicine, they also look at the grandparents as an element of support in that relationship.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yet, that is lacking in Western culture and that I think that like on-line dating, that creates more stress on parent child relationships in this culture that there isn't outside support.
• 46:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And grandparents tend to be a little bit less reactive because they've been through it.
• 46:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: through, whether it a lot more storms, they're in a different phase of their life.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Most people experience with their grandparents as a little less conflicted, and they're experienced with their parents.
• 46:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: They are in a different stage of life and are able to show up in a more a little bit of a more secure way.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, just to explore.
• 46:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: The most secure attachment stuff that we learned today, how to be carefree at that.
• 46:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Learn from your grandparents, Harold.
• 46:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think this is a good segue to takeaways.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think this has been a really enlightening conversation for someone that has read a lot of articles and read the scare book.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think just like talking it out and like hearing how much it can like dramatically differ, and it's not just like a one-size-fits-all thing.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think has been super helpful for me.
• 46:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I guess just like takeaways, we have this takeaway pretty much on every episode.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: The more you can learn about yourself, yeah, better you'll get at life, you know, just dating but at life.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think sometimes we accept the way we are, because we're like, that's just who I am.
• 47:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, that's just,
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: my personality.
• 47:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's just how I deal with things.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: But it doesn't have to be that way.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're so dynamic in how we operate.
• 47:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: We are able to change how we when show up in relationships.
• 47:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: And we are able to change our attachment styles.
• 47:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 47:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: Even though it takes all that unraveling of years and years of behaviors.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: But it is possible.
• 47:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: But the first step is recognizing it and acknowledging totally a hundred and ten percent agree with what you just said.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I think the flip side of it
• 47:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know what this is going and I feel like it's going to be a good direction.
• 47:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that part I wouldn't be cautioned on because I felt like this by reading some of the stuff is that you fit into a box.
• 48:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think sometimes if you fit into a box like that isn't necessarily a holistic view of yourself either so it's great to be aware of like where these areas for improvement are but also not necessarily being like I think like for years I'm like oh, I'm an insecure attachment style and then I'm like, but really am I like I think questioning it and I love this like one that you pointed out has different quadrants because I think
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: all of us can't be just defined as like a single one thing.
• 48:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly.
• 48:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: We don't all fit neatly into one piece.
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think my other takeaway to is like, I'm not saying that I don't agree with this whole theory, because I definitely do think there's a lot of airgiving, but I think so much of it is your environment.
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: And like, kind of also like what messages you've been told, like if you constantly have people ghosting on you all the time,
• 48:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like you're human like some of that is kind of just wear on you even if you were like the most securely raised child ever So I think it new farms the experience as you have in the working model you have Exactly, so I think like yeah, it's ideal to be like your friend that's like this isn't personal But I think it's just natural sometimes if that can take it that way on you So I think again, it comes back to your takeaway of being aware of all of this But also not letting it necessarily dictate your life in a one-size-fits-all way
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and having, I think acceptance for like, it's balancing, okay, yeah, I can change some of these things and also like I can accept where I'm at and part of the secure attachment style too is really being able to say like, hey, this is me and I accept that and it's okay, I can, you know, let people go and that kind of thing and talk yourself through it and I think that's where.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: having people around you that are your supporters cultivating secure connections with friends and or a therapist or and like this is a therapy actually how it's designed to is to be able to like we work your attachment style in the relationship with therapists which sometimes people aren't aware of that but it it depends on the style of therapy or yeah this practices.
• 49:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, or in your romantic relationship, just working towards creating more security together and being able to talk about this is where I feel insecure.
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is what's underneath it and instead of enacting it instead of just jumping into the action of the security.
• 50:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's not something wrong with you if you're in, yeah, like if you're a food boy there, but it's just not as superior as the screw ones, but yeah, you're right.
• 50:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, but I feel like like I think that's the problem with when you're put into a box like in your told secure is like me gold standard Like there's something wrong with you if you're in the other shoe.
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I think that's why again I like this notion of this hybrid of like I'm just gonna be secure in some ways and insecure in others And that's natural.
• 50:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: We actually had a guest on our show Josh that talked about like how when he first met his fiance They kind of put out at the very beginning like like this is where I struggle
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: We all have something.
• 50:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's whether you're a little bit, or if you're not.
• 50:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I think I guess what I'm trying to say in a very long-winded way is like, don't think it's a fault, but rather a area to own and work with someone on.
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love to free it up and letting them know where it's coming from.
• 51:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
• 51:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like it's just learning a new language.
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: I can imagine the world that opens up to you a more of you learn a new language.
• 51:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the same with this and something you said earlier, Lauren, you said people who are anxious or who are in these insecure attachment styles don't have the tools to work on their insecurities.
• 51:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: So basically, the people who are secure are still experience all these other insecurities.
• 51:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: They just have the tools and the language around what they're experienced.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: So, if that's really what it is, you're just adding more languages to your toolkit, so you can describe what you're going through.
• 51:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 51:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they would say they have, yeah, they have that various of emotion, but they learn to self-smooth and they learn to not, to self-regulate, to regulate their nervous system, soothe themselves.
• 51:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: They feel distressed.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like they just have the absence of negative experiences because they're human.
• 52:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's bound to happen.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's a really good point too when we're talking about how you move from more of an insecure to a secure, like your childhood isn't going to change, like that's not the past, right?
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can't change that, but I think for me, for example, I recognize that one of my challenges is this fair of abandonment.
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: But like now if I don't get like a text message back immediately or something I can change the story in my head The narrative yeah, and be like okay like maybe they're at a meeting maybe they're doing something else This has nothing to do with their feelings towards me like kind of try to like rationalize it A bit or even express to them like this is where it's coming from like I'm not blaming you like this is my own shit But just this is where I'm like a little deficient and like what I bring to the table
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know?
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you're recognizing the story instead of just going straight into a reaction or wrapped it.
• 52:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that takes some of the charge out of it and gives the other person space to say, oh, that totally makes sense that you'd fill the way and that's not what was happening or whatever.
• 53:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
• 53:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: You get to respond to you.
• 53:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Have you guys seen the Brune Brown special on Netflix?
• 53:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: I watched it.
• 53:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's so good.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's so good because I just love her.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I do.
• 53:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: She's like the bus to be
• 53:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: So she's like done like all these studies about like vulnerability and shame and a lot, right?
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: She's amazing, but she had this whole thing about like the way she approaches her husband is the story I'm telling myself now is so it's not like putting blame on it
• 53:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's basically like, this is what I'm saying to myself right now, we're you at.
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then they can be like, wow, like, that is not what I was thinking in the slightly.
• 53:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love that.
• 53:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, she's like now every fight we have or every conversation I would fight is like that's how it starts.
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Instead of like feeling that anxiety and like, how do I just say this in a way that like we could have a conversation and then we can squash it.
• 53:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
• 53:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just re-framing what you're thinking.
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yep, and not blaming them.
• 53:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: And not blaming.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: I like that.
• 54:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel more secure from my own session already.
• 54:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think I'm a secure attacher.
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: You guys, there's a six-year test to be totally biased.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're like, I know how to answer all the questions.
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, they ask you like in five different ways.
• 54:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can't game the test.
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rich too much.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's true.
• 54:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like the one test I took they kept asking the same question in different ways So I called you to say one.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's likeology to the one but the one you've recommended is called what again But the woman who put it on her site her name is Diane pool
• 54:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: p-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but I would be curious, maybe I'll retake it and see if I still get insecure.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm definitely doing the same really short quiz.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the attached website is really short.
• 55:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Psychology today when I had a pay $6.95 for it.
• 55:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't done enough research to say which test I haven't taken them all.
• 55:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was just looking for that one that I did years ago and not able to find it.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Pulls doesn't have quadrants, but she does like percentages and a pie.
• 55:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there was another one I did actually show you your attachment to different figures so it was like your best friend, your mom, your dad, your partner, if you had one or I guess if you didn't you could just do it relative to old partners.
• 55:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'd do it, we'd do them all.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you're really getting it.
• 55:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am sure.
• 55:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: The problem is when you do them all, you get like 1,000 to 2,000 for the first time.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what I am any more.
• 55:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what you are.
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone has a different description of like what that means.
• 55:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 55:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And all the results too.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: All these tests, like they're great to get a baseline.
• 56:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: But you can't judge or you can't put your whole weight of your personality and everything on a test.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: But if you know your attachment style, would you recommend people putting it on their dating profile?
• 56:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think so.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't think so.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you're secure.
• 56:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 56:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I read about that.
• 56:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's almost a red flag when people put things on their profile that are like, emotionally available because like, you know, anyone can say that.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: What does that mean?
• 56:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not that bad.
• 56:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And which chest was it?
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Touched us because you're a therapist.
• 56:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where did you get this information?
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Was it from your ex, because that's what I want to know.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it should be a conversation.
• 56:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think online dating is really the appropriate platform to try to develop any secure attachment, develop even like a solid.
• 56:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: at understanding one of the things I think about online dating is like people have these different approaches and some people just get on there to get offline but a lot of people get on there to get to know someone through text and you really don't because you know someone after you meet them and then how they follow up with you how they treat you that's where secure bonds are formed you know by seeing how they
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: interact with you over time and how they treat you, not whether or not they're they're simply responses to your text.
• 57:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's different if someone's responsive to their text and you've never met them that's different than if you know you've met them in person and they really show up for you and they're there for you.
• 57:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I recommend having those conversations in person as a way to facilitate deeper connection and strategic stability with each other.
• 57:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we'll just react to it if we see someone in the South and South like oh swipe left in the five percent.
• 57:34
  [UNKNOWN]: Yes.
• 57:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, thank you so much for shedding some light on attachment theories.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, one did this topic for every long time.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: So glad we got to do it.
• 57:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad you'll get attachment theories are like the hot new test of the moment right now.
• 57:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel everyone's talking about it.
• 57:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's cool and trendy.
• 57:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, I think someone needs to do more research.
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: The last research was 1965.
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like there's a new wave that needs to happen.
• 57:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 57:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Holly Amrows.
• 58:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
• 58:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: Really good chance that we have different attacks to each other.
• 58:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: For if you're drawn to polyamory versus me, what does that say about your attack also have a new question?
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we got to start our research dissertation.
• 58:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's done.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do it.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's starting.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: 10 years.
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll let you know.
• 58:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's been since 1965.
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we might need some time.
• 58:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Give us a little time.
• 58:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be speeding up and not that much.
• 58:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: But if you like to get in touch with Lauren, how would they contact you?
• 58:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Can go on my website?
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's at LaurenCorshackMFT.com.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll link up all of that in our shout out for that.
• 58:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then your guy is at the mindful matchmaker.
• 58:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: And my Facebook is LaurenCorshackMFT.
• 58:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Perfect.
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to the psychology of relationships today.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: So you don't miss an episode.
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Bye.