Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / Be the Oldest in the Gym, Not the Youngest in the Nursing Home Part 1 with Stacy Sims

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Be the Oldest in the Gym, Not the Youngest in the Nursing Home Part 1 with Stacy Sims · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I get countered when I say do high intensity interval
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: training and spread interval training and heavy resistance training, because
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: these are the harm works we know that improve not
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: only muscle function and metabolic health, but also brain health.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: And people are like, well, I don't.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Want to do it, doctor c C Simms, Welcome to
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: the podcast.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Hello, and thanks for having me.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: We are just across the ditch from each other. But
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't know what to listen to us, right, I
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: know we're.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Like on the very bottom of the world, but we
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: don't come from this area of the world.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: So what brought you to New Zealand the.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: First time around? Oh? So long ago. I was in
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: living in San Francisco and working and a job came
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: up and I was like, yeah, I'm twenty six single,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: not atachments. Why not that I moved down here and I
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: did my PhD, and I got married, and then I
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: moved back to California and worked at Stanford for a while,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and then launched a company and closed it down, and
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: then got to a point where I was like, not
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: quite sure my husband really wanted to move back because
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: he's from here.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Ah, there we go. I was wondering why.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I came back, so we moved back.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you are at AUT. You're an adjunt
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: profit aut with a good mair of mine who the
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: listeners will be very familiar with Grand Professor Grant Scholfield
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: because he's been on my podcast probably four times, five
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: times now maybe.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: All right, nice, yes, I know great, he's yeah.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Very cool, very cool. So you let's just just tell
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: our listeners a little bit about your background. So obviously
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: we talked about the back and forth, but talk about
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: your kind of career to this point.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: It has not been a smooth sailing path. If when
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I was eighteen, I wouldn't tell you what I was
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: doing when I was nineteen. So I've just taken opportunities
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: because I look at it as the sliding doors phenomena. Right.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: If you go through it right and you're like I
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: wish I had done X y Z, then you should
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: probably do the xyz because you can always come back
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: to where you are. So that's kind of how I
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: viewed things. So my career has been a little bit interesting.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Where I started as an athlete and in academia exercise physiology,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I worked outside of the academic scope, worked for an
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: obesity surgeon as an exercise physiologist for a while yep,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and then I worked cardiac rehab for a while, then
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: got back into more of the academic and sport focus.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of like how I did my PhD
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff being an elite athlete
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: wanting to answer questions. Then when I got to Stanford,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I started as an exercise physiologist in the Human Performance Lab,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: but then moved over to do a POSTOC in the
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Prevention Research Center with Marshall Stefanik, who is known for
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: being the PI for the Women's Health Initiative. But I
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: had one hand in that database and the other in
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: human biology and human performance, so meshing those two worlds together.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So this is why all the conversation about menopause and exercise,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, why did people not know this? I've been
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: looking at this for like fifteen years. So the driver
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: really has been as an athlete wanting to understand answers
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: to a lot of the questions that I had as
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: a competitive athlete, and now wanting to know the answers
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: for my friends who have been olympians and now are coaches,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: as well as getting older in the aging population, how
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: do we keep thriving as we get older instead of
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: being told that we've aged out. So it's all been
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: in the strive of what is human performance, how do
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: we optimize it and at the same time having the
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: availability to go to the lab or work with other
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: populations to see how we can merge the two ideas
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: together or not. So that's how I've kind of looked
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: at my career across the the different waves.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Very cool and in the last few years you kind
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: of have exploded onto the scene in terms of getting
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: out to the masses, which is quite cool, and particularly
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: with your research on the sex differences, which we are
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: are going to come back to. But I love what
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: you have right on the front of your website. Women
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  Speaker 2: are not small men. And I first realized that, oh Jesus,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know, fifteen years ago doing Malnutrition Masters, and
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: we looked at a study that was around sleeping tablets
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  Speaker 2: and how all the research have been done on men
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  Speaker 2: and then when they studied women in sleeping tablets, they
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  Speaker 2: metabolize them completely differently and often end up with a
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: massive fog that lasts halfway through the next day. So
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: tell us just so our listeners understand why historically has
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  Speaker 2: the vast majority of the research being done on man
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: and particularly coffee ghed Man. Yeah.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So I like to explain it as if we look
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: historically what has gone on with regards to modern medicine,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: it was started by men and men in the room,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: because historically women have been thought to have smaller brains,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: be delicate, not as smart, all of these things. Even
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I'm a fan of Darwin, but I'm not a fan
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: of the fact that he put out there that women
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: have smaller brains. So are there pretty Yeah, so therefore
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  Speaker 1: not as intelligent as men? So what Yeah, So historically
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: we look at how research has been designed, right, and
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: so it has been designed and methodology has been kind
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: of evolved by who has been in the room. And
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: if we think about it, men have been in the room,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and so the studies have been very well designed and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: thought as through the view of a male lens, like
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: how does the male body work? Men don't have minstrual cycles,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: they don't have pregnancy, they don't have perimenopause, they don't
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: have menopause. So none of that came into the equation,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: none of it came into the methods. So as we
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: start looking at the gender data gap and we start
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: looking at the lack of robust research on women. It's
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: because of this historical thread that keeps being pulled through.
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  Speaker 1: Even to now twenty twenty four, Well, we're still seeing
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: an incredible gap in the research and the outcomes. And
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: now as we start getting more and more into AI
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  Speaker 1: and how AI is learning and learning from the existing data,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: is perpetuating that gap. So historically we've been aware of it.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Right, Sorry, is that stacy? Because AI all that can
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: do is troll through historical data, and the vast majority
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: of that historical data is man. So the stuff that
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: AI is coming up is meal centric, yes.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Which worries me when we start seeing companies like Thrive
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: in the US that's using AI driven information to push
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: out to women and to understand what are these diseases
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: that are coming on and how are we supposed to
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: accommodate for them when they're missing the mark on things
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: like cardiovascular disease which presents differitely in women than men,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: and autoimmune disorders that have a higher incidence in women
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: than in men. So if the data is not taking
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  Speaker 1: to account sex and ethnic differences, we're creating a greater gap.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So historically we've known, we started putting a fix to it,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: and we're seeing this upsurge of really good robust research
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: on women. But then we're having this whole AI issue
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  Speaker 1: that's coming in that's perpetuating the lack of closing this gap.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: So I'm hoping the pendulum swings the other way and
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: we land back in the middle where we start going, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: we see xx versus x y, and then we have
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: other perturbations of our chromosomes that affect different diseases different ways.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and then as you said, there's the racial
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: differences as well, because I know that there are a
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  Speaker 2: fur few differences when it comes to particularly to metabolic disorders. Yes,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: so yeah, that's that's a very interesting indeed. Okay, let's
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: get onto the major topic of today, which is all
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: about exercise, given that you are a bit of an
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: exercise guru, and I think a good conversation starter would
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: be a twenty fifteen paper that I'm sure you will
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: have read that says exercise atten yates all the major
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: hallmarks of aging, right and back just before then, there
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: was a paper released about the major hallmarks of aging,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: and then there were nine I think a paper last
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: year added another two. But exercise basically atten yates and
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: for the non academic people reduces or counteracts all of
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: those nine major hallmarks of euaging and the latest two
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  Speaker 2: that came out, it also has positive effects on those
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: as well. Right, Why has exercise got such a broad
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: scope when it comes to these different ways that the
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: body edges.
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  Speaker 1: Exercise is a stress and the way the body responds
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: to stress is to learn that stress and overcome it
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  Speaker 1: and put in different mechanisms to survive. So if we're
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  Speaker 1: thinking about using exercise as a means to attenuate cognitive
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  Speaker 1: decline or cardiovascular risk factors, or look at DNA and
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  Speaker 1: telemere length. Right, So if we're adding different intensities or
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: different modes of activity, it's creating different stresses, not only
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  Speaker 1: in a whole systems level, but on that cellular level.
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  Speaker 1: Body has to understand what is oxidative stress? What is
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: you know some of the feedback mechanisms, How do we
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: increase our MCT ones versus our mct fours for lactate transport.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: So there's all these things that respond to intensity duration.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: We look at resistance training versus aerobic all of those
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: encounter and create a different stress on the body. And
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  Speaker 1: the body in itself is not like this linear algorithm
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: that's like, oh, you walk three times a week, so
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  Speaker 1: we're going to allow you to walk three times a week.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, okay, you walk hills three times a week.
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  Speaker 1: We want to overcome that and develop more bone density
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  Speaker 1: and more muscle mass so when you go out again,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: your heart rate doesn't go up as high. So it's
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  Speaker 1: one of those things that people I don't really think
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  Speaker 1: about understanding because we've been put in this sedentary box
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: and we have major farm and that's like here, take this,
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  Speaker 1: Take this, take this. When we back it down and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: look at how exercise creates this perturbation to the systems
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and creates a catabolic response while we're exercising, creates these
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  Speaker 1: oxidative responses, creates this incredible blood flow diversion from our
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: main central organs while we're exercising, and in response, the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: body is like, wait, I need to be able to
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: overcome this and survive. So it puts in that adaptive response,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and this is how we get fitter.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I will often say to people, I've spoken
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: to thousands of people about exercise over the years, some
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: people go, yes, I love it, and others go, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: don't like it because that makes me uncomfortable. And my
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: response is it's supposed to be bloody uncomfortable, right, right, right.
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  Speaker 1: And this is the thing I get countered when I say,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: you know, do high intensity interval training and spread interval
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: training and heavy resistance training, because these are the harm
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: works we know that improve not only muscle function and
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: metabolic health, but also brain health. And people are like, well,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do it. I'll like, you have
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to challenge yourself. We're not designed to sit in a
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: chair in twenty degree celsius rooms all day, every day.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: That's the body is just not going to adapt. What
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: it's going to do is become complacent, and it's not
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: going to respond to stress.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, there's a quote that I will
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: often use from the stoic philosopher Epictitis that I think
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: you're going to love if you have aren't already familiar
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: with it. He said, we must all undergo a hard
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: winter training and not enter into lightly that for which
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: we have not prepared. And he was talking about life.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: It's perfect, that is yeah, that is yeah, Okay, I'm
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: going to put that on the website.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I'll send that through. I thought you'd like that.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: So when I did my Masters in Exercise science thirty
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: thirty years ago, I'm showing my age here. We were
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: taught about mio kinds back then, right, And the understanding
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: of myo kinds back then were that these are molecules
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: inside the muscle that helped to shake the lucose and
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: fat and turn it into energy for the muscle, for
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: cellular muscle contraction. And then those mayo kinds then help
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: your muscles get bigger, stronger, right, And we know that
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: that is still true, that is absolutely true. But we
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: now know that these myokinds get outside of our muscle
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: and into circulation. And I describe it as just widespread
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: magic that happens throughout the body and the brain. So
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: take our listeners through myokindes. Just give us the ten
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: thousand foot few of mayokines, and then feel three to
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: dive in wherever you want to.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I explained it to my daughter the other day.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: There are soldiers, So when your muscles under stress, right,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: you have the soldiers that come and go what's going
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: on and want to protect it. I can't protect it
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: right here. I have to also go out and tell
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the bigger system that something is going on. So the soldiers,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the maokines are trying to protect the muscle fibers by
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: creating a feedback mechanism to not completely destroy any of
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the cellular components within the muscle so it can still
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: function when the stress is gone. But they also come
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: out because they're like, wait a second, I need more fuel.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I need to go find the bigger system and say
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I need to bring some more fuel in so it'll
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: find like visceral fat and say hey, we don't need
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: fat to be stored there. We need it to be
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: deestrified and released so we can bring it to the mitochondria.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: So you have this feedback mechanism that's telling the liver
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: not to take estterfied fatty acids and store it as
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: a visceral fat. We have things that the brain should require,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: so we look at lactate and intensity of lactate production.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Most people think that lactate is a metabolic waste product,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: but we know that it's not right. See, the brain
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: is a lactate producer at rest, and it's a lactate
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: user and uptake uptaker I guess is the best way
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to put it during exercise. So the myicinds are like, Okay,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: let's stimulate a leve percent more uptake into the brain
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of lactate. So we have to stimulate some more of
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the mct ones in fource, so let's get those going.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: So we have these little soldiers that are really messengers
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that affect every system the body when you're exercising to
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: create an adaptive response that we want. We want to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: have better muscle function, We want to have better translocation
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: of those little glute for proteins that open up the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: cell to bring more carbohydrate and glucose in to be stored.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: We want to have the liver understand that we don't
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: want to circulate all these estrified fatty acids to be
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: stored as that deep abdominal fat. We want to be
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: able to convert it and use it and store it
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: within the muscle. So we have all these feedback mechanisms
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: that come and they're so incredibly important because they really
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: are only released when we are looking at exercise and
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the muscle function that occurs during exercise. We see that
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: high intensity exercise increases more of the mykines that are
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: responsible for discussing with the brain in lactate uptake. We
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: see that super high sprint interval type training, so that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: super super high intency creates more of a bigenetic signaling
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: and change to translocate more of those glute forward proteins
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: so that we have a reduction in the insulin resistance.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So there's so many things that occur with these signals
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: and these little soldiers that do their jobs.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: So well, there's a few things I want to double
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: click on in there. The first one, let's just stick
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: the last one. You mentioned glute four protein. So I
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: remember finding out about these things and oh my god,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: they're so cool. Right, And the way that I sort
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: of explain it to people is the way that glucose
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: generally gets into the sale. It's think of your trying
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: to get into a nightclub and there's bouncers on the door,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: and the bouncers is basically the insulin receptor, right, So
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: we'd use insulin to get in, but then when that's
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: full of that line is is just jam packed, you
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: can actually sneak around the back and get in through
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: the glute forward door, right right. Talk to us about
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Why this is so important, particularly given the high prevalence
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: of diabetes and then the cousin of diabetes type three
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: diabetes are Alzheimer's disease in the brion. Why is how
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: does coluct for play a role here?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: They are specific proteins that when we see the muscle
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: needs more glucose for fuel, that there's that signal to okay,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: let's translocate these little proteins from within the matrix to
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: the cell membrane. So when it gets translocated, that means
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: it comes to the cell membrane, pokes a little hole through,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: opens it up, and it's like waving a flag going hello, glucose,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: come on in, so we don't need insulin. And for
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: women we see there is estrogen alpha receptor, an estradyle
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: receptor that also signals that to happen. So this is
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: why we start to see that insulin resistance occurring when
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: we are hitting late perimenopause, when we start having a
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: decline in our estrogen, we are not stimulating those receptors.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: We're not getting as much feedback for those glute for translocation,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: which is why again we look at high intensity work
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: that uses a lot of glucose to translocate more of
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: those proteins to that cell wall to bring in more
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: glucose without insulin.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And is that one of the reasons that drop an
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: estrogen and that little pathway of glucose into the cell.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Is this one of the reasons, And we'll get into
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: this more in detailed liater, but is that one of
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the reasons why women tend to put on we it
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: when they go through menopause? Is that one of the causes,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: But it's more insulin resistance or just at a rise
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: in blood sugar.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Part of it is insulin resistance, but the other is
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the anti inflammatory response that estrogen causes. And when you
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: drop estrogen, you have a little bit of mitochondrial dysfunction,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: so now you're having extra free fatty acids. And then
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: when you have extra free fatty acids, their circulation becomes estrified, right,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: and so you get those estrophied fatty acids that then
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: get picked up by the liver, and the liver's like, okay,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: we're going to store you in around the organs as visceral.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Fat vistral fat. Yeah.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Interesting, yeah, So it's the combination of the insulin resistance,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: so you're not getting as much glucose in, so you're
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: not able to utilize free fatty acids because you need
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: glucose in order to make the mitochondria go oh yeah, okay,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: I need to bring in more free fatty acids. So
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a block. You're not getting the glucose
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: in because of insulin resistance, You're getting more free fatty
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: acid circulating, which then get switched over to estrophied fatty
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: acids and you get this cascade effect of insulin resistance
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: visceral fat. So we can change that through exercise.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And is this one of the reasons why that when
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: women go through men a pause, they're cardiovascar risk starts
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: to normalize towards man Yes.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, we see a significant shift in the lipid profile
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: for women who are late perimenopause, where there's an increase
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: in our LDL, decrease in HDL, some changes in triglycerides,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: but we're seeing a negative change in our cholesterol on
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: our blood lipids. Part of it is that whole issue
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: that I was talking about with the free fatty acids
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and estrified fats and that kind of stuff and insulin resistance,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: and then as we're having that downturn of estradyl's effect
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: on our cell and cell metabolism and anti inflammatory responses.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: We start to see cardiovascular respectors across the board increase,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: not only from the lipid profile but also cardiovascular function.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: We see a decrease in our ability to have normal
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: blood pressure because of endothelial function that's controlled by estradyl.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: So there's a cascade effect that estrogen and to the
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: extent their different receptors have with regards to cardiovascular health
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and metabolic health. But again interesting, we can look at exercise.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, and we will come back on that in terms
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: of exercise as an intervention, but let's not I mean,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: we use the lactiat as an intro here, but let's
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: talk about more generally the role of exercise and Brian health.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Because I first came across this when was that I
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: started doing fables, maybe ten twelve years ago. I first
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: came across BDNF with the paper by Mark Mattson and
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: started diving into that and then just started really talking
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: about the impact of exercise on Brian health. So give
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: our listeners the overview and then again feel free to
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: dive in wherever you want. So why is it so
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: important for Brian health? Actually, let me let let me
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: dive firse. I remember a quote by Professor Frank Booth.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: The human genome has not changed in over forty five
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: thousand years, and the current human genome requires and expects
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: us to be highly physically active for normal functioning. Right,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: And I often say, nowhere is that statement more true
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: than in the human brain. So why is our brain
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: so dependent upon physical activity for normal function? And then
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: we can talk about optimal function?
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mean the neuroplasticity is a big thing
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: that keeps coming up in longevity. So what does that mean?
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: It means the brain changes with different stressors. Right, So
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: we're thinking about if we sit down all day and
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: we're at the computer screen, or maybe we do some
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: soduku or wordle or whatever it is, because we heard
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: that improves brain health. It only keeps it within the
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: confounds of a small box. There's no real stress on
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: when we look at exercise because exercise is such a
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: strong stress with blood flow diversion. Right, So we have
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: to find adequate and optimal blood flow to keep the
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: brain going as well as muscle metabolism and function. So
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: we're seeing a little bit of heated blood. Of course,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: so the hypothalamus is reading it as an increase in
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: core temperature and the brain is like, how do I
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: deal with this? Okay, well, we have to find other
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: pathways to improve sweating. We have to find greater capacity
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: for increasing vasodilation. So it becomes very active in how
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: am I going to survive this increase in heat? So
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: you're getting this feedback to increase thermoregulatory aspects. Not only that,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: we're having a lot of blood flow diversion from the gut,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: which affects gut microbiome, right, And we're seeing that when
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: we have that hypoxym blood flow diversion, we increase our anaerobes.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: So we're seeing an increase in our anaerobic bacteria and
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: we see more of the bacteria associated with positive health
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: outcomes lane mass and increased serotonin and B and F
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: when we have more of those anaerobs.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: So with that blood flow diversion away from the gut
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: and we have that hypoxia, we're getting the growth and
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: stimulus of the bacteria that's responsible for increased B, D
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: and F.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Are these aners sorry, are these anaerobes just in the gut.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: For the most part, Yes, in the deep colon, so
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: it's not in the upper gut, it's in the lower got.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: And then we also see the lactate aspect, right, So,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: as I was saying earlier, when we're doing intensity or
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: even steady state with some lactate production, because it does happen,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: we're seeing the brain using its preferred fuel. So people go, oh,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: glucose metabolism, it's essential for brain health. That's why the
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: big ketogenic diet thing came out a while ago. But
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: now we're learning more and more about how lactate is
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: necessary for glial cell conversation. So these are our neurons
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: ability to have conversation. Not only does lactate improve that,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: but lactate also stimulates BDNF production. So when we're looking
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: at exercise, there's so many different feedback mechanisms that create
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: the fertilizer for the brain. So BDNF is response before
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: increasing the volume and the tissue of the brain. But
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: then we also look at things like resistance training and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the neuroplasticity that that occurs, which increases the gray matter conversation. Right,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: So we're looking at more dendrites that are having conversations,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: and so we're putting down increased pathways of conversation, which
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: improves brain health. So when we're looking at brain health
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: and exercise, it's important to do both aerobic anaerobic activity,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: more so anaerobic for women because we are born with
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: less glycolytic fibers, so we have to keep training them
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: to produce that tape. Yeah, and then we also have
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: to look at resistance training both men and women to
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: keep that neuroplasticity and keep the gray matter in those conversations.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Very interesting, and there's an independent mechanism for BD and
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: F production in the brand. I know lacked it, but aricent.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know whether Americans pronounced that irison or whether
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: you say a risin, but that also is that's a
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: mile kind that also stimulates the production of BDNF.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is. It is definitely, And I mean that's
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: something else where people.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Are like, well, you know, I'm just going to do
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: zone two, where it was like, okay, well you can
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: do zone two work for if you're a guy, because
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: you need that, but as a woman, you're not going
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: to get the same earson, and you're also not going
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: to get the same I guess conversation for BD and
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: F and increasing our LAC tape metabolism. So this is
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: where we start looking at the sex differences that come
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: into play for brain health.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, the listeners might be going why they're majoring
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: so much on BDNF. I mean, BD and F does it?
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Some people describe it as miracle grow for the briand
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: it is. You know that that thing that they is
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: like a fertilizer they had in America, but it is.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: It does act like that, doesn't It helps new connections
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: between brain sales. It helps you to grow new brain sales,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: which we didn't think was possible to in lightteen ninety seven.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: And it actually protects the brain sales that you have
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: against damage, either stress induced damage or traumatic brain injury.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: So there are drug companies all around the world are
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: trying to synthesize BD and F and get it in
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: a pill form to deliver it to the brain. But
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: until then, the best source of it is physical activity.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we do see that depending on where in
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: the brain that you're hit for a TBI in concussion
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: can directly affect your recovery because of BD and F,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: So we see, you know, we're getting more and more
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: research about sex differences in recovery, but also where the
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: brain has been hit the most, like in a concussion,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: is it rebound or is it directed? Because then that
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: can directly influence how fast you can recover from a concussion.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: And they're tracing it down to BD and F how
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: it stopped and it's being produced again, And so when
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: they're looking at return to play with regards to brain health,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: they're having to rethink what do we mean by that?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: With return to play with intensity, we don't want to
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: hit the brain again, but we also want to encourage
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: BD and F. So do we do that through strength training?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Do we do that through low aerobic work? Do we
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: do a couple of twenty second surges? So it all,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a whole bunch of really cool research
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: coming out in the TBI. Mild TBI research looking at
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: what do we actually mean by return to play and
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: concussion recovery?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Interesting, very interesting. So what's the leadest Because my finger
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: has been on the pulse in this for a couple
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: of years in terms of intensity and exercise type for
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: maximizing BDNF I, understanding loads a few years old, the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: age that it really optimizes around that lacktiate threshold because
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: obviously lack t it is shot leading it into the
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: brand as is Arisen and maybe cathepsin B. But what's
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: the leadst thinking on modality of exercise intensityjuriation for optimizing
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: BD and F.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Phil Ainsley and Jim Carter did this really
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: cool study. I think it was maybe three years ago,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: maybe four years because time evades me. They looked at.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: It's Jim catter ki we yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: think I was wanting to Jim Carter before. Yeah.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Cool, he's down in the University of Otago.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah cool.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: So they looked at low intensity, modern intensity, and high
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: intensity training and wanted to see how bad and F
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: responded to these three different levels. Most people thought modern
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: intensity or modern intensity interval training would be the best
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: because it's it's taxing but not too taxing. And they
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: found that with true high intensity work that was the
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: biggest bang for your bucks with regards to how much
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: bad and F was produced and how long the curve
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: was to bring it back down. High intensity work is
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: where you want to go. Not only that, but we
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: see that with that lactate production and the increased amount
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of lactate in the blood, that's what creates it transient
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: increase in the beating as your body's trying to clear it.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Right, Okay, And in terms of the intensity, which means
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: different things to different people, can you remember off the
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: top of your head what that the methods looked like they.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Were doing wingate sprints and was thirty seconds on one
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: minute off by twelve. Fuck, I know, not going to
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: get very many people doing that, but that's what like
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: when you talk about high.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Intensity, that's that's real high intensity, right.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: That sprint interval stuff.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So for the listeners are wingate, this is
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: thirty minutes of all out effort, and it's horrible. It
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: is absolutely horrible, Like because most people think, you know,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: it's a thirty minute all out sprint, but your pow
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: drops off after ten fifteen seconds, right, so your muscles
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: are already struggling, and it is it's pretty brutal to
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: do that and then to backup, did you say a
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: minute rest? Wow? And into back up? How many repetitions to.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Do do so? They did? I think it was eight
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: to twelve.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: It's twelve right, So that is that's proper. That's real
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: high intensity. I mean, because a lot of people talk
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: about high intensity interval training and it's not really high intensity, isn't.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: I explained it to people. I'm like, if you think
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Orange Theory F forty five CrossFit, your general gym class
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: is high intensity interval training, it's not. That's modern intensity.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: If you can go and you're holding your heart rate,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: you know, up and down for forty five to fifty minutes,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: that's not incensity.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: No, no way.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: We're looking at one to four minute interval with one
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: to four minute recovery, and that's on the low end
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: of high intensity. For really strong impetus. We want to
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: do that sprintable training. And I teach people on the
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: assault bike, like how hard can you go for thirty seconds? Well,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: your friends around you cheering you on, and you have
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: to beat your friends, have recovery and then beat the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: meters you got the first time.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's that's that's pretty evil. Because so I will
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: do so in the Norwegian four by four protocol, which
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: you'll be familiar with. Right, So that's four minutes of
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: full on work. But you know you're you're probably you're
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: only your heart rate between ninety and ninety five percent,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: so it's tough. And then you three minute recovery and
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: you do that four times. That's a tough work. Guard.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I will also do this sixty second by ten, so
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: sixty seconds full on and in sixty seconds recovery and
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: do that ten times. I find that harder, significant harder
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: than then they're reaching four by four. I don't use
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: the selp out us a versa climber, which is the
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: only bit of equipment that is probably equally as evil
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: as the assault by because on both of them you
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: got all four limbs going yep.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, yep. This I'd say, yeah, cross country skiing
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: would mimic it be. It's like, yeah, there isn't an
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: urg except the old fashioned Nordic tract sat there anymore.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Versa climber is an evil piece of equipment. I've had
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: mine for about fifteen years and it's still so let's
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: I mean. The other thing I think about brain health
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: as well, which not a lot of people talk about,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: is the neurosymphony that happens in the brain whenever you're exercising.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, everybody hears about has heard of endorphins and
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: an endorphins get all the plaudits, But as I said
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: to people, your monomines do most of the heavy lifting
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: when it comes to the impact of exercise, seroton the
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: tope of me new adren and then you've got into
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: cannabinois and inca falons. So I have a theory and
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to rotest this with you that significant
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: amounts of the mental health issues that we are facing
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: today are that people are geos not physically active enough
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: because they're not producing. If we go back to the
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: quote by Professor Frank Booth, the human genome requires an
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: expect should be highly physically active for normal functioning. Yeah,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: what's your thoughts on that in terms of neurotransmitter release
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: in the brand and mood.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: So, like I said before we came on air, like
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: all day, I've been writing about brain health and looking
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: at the news research and especially in mental health and
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: depression and the past I guess beginning of twenty twenty
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: three to a study that was produced or published last month,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: it was all looking at RTC's on depression, and the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: common theme that kept coming up is when people are
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: severely depressed, it's and then they get put into either
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: resistance training or high intensity work. It brings them out
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: of depression, keeps them out of there. So we have
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: to look and say, well, why is that What is
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: happening to the brain the one it's being challenged. Two,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Like you said, it's creating an incredible uptake and production
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: of our dopamine, are serotonin and all of the things
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: that encourage a boost in mood. Right, And because we're
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: having an increase in neuroplasticity from the stress that they
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: haven't had before, it's creating that adaptive response to say, hey, okay, yeah,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: I need to keep this pathway because I don't know
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: when I'm going to get that stress again. So it's
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: creating that adaptive response. And we're saying how incredibly important
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: it is to have that higher stimulu us for brain
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: health to bring us out of that depression, helps with
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: anxiety as well. And then we can talk about like
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: using creatine to actually compound that effect, right, because we
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: need creating for all those fast energetics, and we're seeing
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the uptake in the saturation of creating is not where
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: it should be optimally because of the poor diet that
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: most people are eating now, the ultra process foods, the
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: lower intake of animal products that haven't been through the
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: US food system, right, yes.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I think that is a really important point
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: the neuroplasticity side of things, because there's a lot of
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: bit about antidepressants. I had a professor Mark Hargreaves on
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: the podcast. He was one of the guys that completely
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: put a balm onto the serotonin theory of depression and
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: showed it was complete bullshit. You know. Their theory was
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: that it's mostly stress and that recovery from depression is
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: a neuroplasticity process, and exercise creates all the conditions necessary
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: for neuroplasticity, right, which is why we see in the
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: research that exercise beats antidepressant medication hands down. I don't
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: know if you saw the paper recently on use with
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: depression and they put some of them, half of them,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: it was an RCT. Half them did resistance training twice
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: a week and went into the remission that had an
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: effect size of one point seven or one point eight
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: like crazy. So to give the listeners some contexts, right,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Cohen's the effects size zero point two is a small
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: effects size, right, which means it's marginally better than placebo.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: And we see with a lot of antidepressants they're not
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: point two. Zero point three zero point five is moderate
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: and correct me if I'm wrong and we're going off
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the top of my head. Not point eight is a
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: large effects size like one point seven one point eight
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: it's created these bunkers. Right, If any drug came on
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the market with an effects size with depression of one
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: point seven one point it would be an absolute blockbuster, right.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: It would be a zimpeck all over again.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, it would be a zimpic for the brie. And
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: absolutely can we do a little diversion into a zimpic?
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Sure your thoughts, short term, long term probes and cons Yeah.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: So, like I said at the beginning, I worked for
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: an obc surgeon way before any of the GPO ones
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: were available, and this was like full restructure obesity surgery,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: and there were people who came in there were actually
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: still too heavy even though they were being they were
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: seeking obesity surgery, they were too heavy to be able
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: to go through the surgery. So they had to follow
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: a high fiber, hyprotein diet and they lost a few pounds,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: but enough to reduce their respector for undergoing a ruin
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: y or gastric bypass.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: I had admit exactly the same thing, and he had
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: to lose to kilos shape and qualify for the surgery.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: It was one hundred and fifty kilos and not very tall.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So when we look at the effect of
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: high protein, high fiber, we see that increase in the
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: GLP one. Right, So when we're looking at ozimpac and
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: ozimpac is the same. You know, it's pretty much the
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: same as a high fiber, high protein diet, but works
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: a lot faster. And when I look at the outcomes, sure,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: but it falls into that whole category where there isn't
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: any education around it, right, So you'll get people on it,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: And I've worked with some who, like one was a
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: nurse who was involved in the research and she was overweight,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and they're like, well, if you're involved in the there's
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: a big trials and why didn't you get on it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: So she got on it, and in the US culture,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: right of the insurance companies, she went to go get
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: a renewal and they're like, wait a second, you weren't
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: pre authorized to be on this. So then she went
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: to go to pre authorization but she lost enough weight
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: that she didn't qualify. Shit, So then she came off
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: it because she couldn't get it and regained all this
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: weight and was freaking out. She's like, what because no
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: one educated her on the incredible amount of lean mass
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: you lose in this weightless yeah, right, and how important
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: that is for maintaining menabolic health. So what I find
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: really frustrating with the whole Ozmpic thing. One we have
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the vanity pounds that people want to lose. Two for
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: individuals who really do need it and want to go
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: down that route, there also needs to be the education
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: of what kinds of exercise they need to do to
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: maintain lean mass and bone health.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent gott to be doing resistance training on
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: this stuff, right.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: So I always bring it back to if you remember
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: that movie Wally that came out like twenty twelve, It
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: was a little robot. Okay, So there's a little robot
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: and he escapes and he gets into the human world.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: And when he gets into the human world, all the
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: humans are laying down on these floating platforms looking at
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: a screen, completely oblivious to anything is around them, and
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Wally accidentally hits one and this guy falls off and
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: he suddenly looks up and around, but he cannot stand
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: up because he's been floating and he's so overese and
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't have any lean mass. He cannot stand up, so
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the little robot has to help him. Macabon's platform. I
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: like that is going to be the ozimbic, right. They're
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: going to lose weight, but they're not going to have
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: the lean mass for true function. So as an exercise physiologist,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: you know, we need to teach people how to train
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: well while they're on it, so then when they can
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: and want to get off it, they can.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, It's like the yu Yo dieting. Right. They
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: lose a hypow it, but they'll lose water first, then muscle,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: lean mass, including bone sometimes, and then they'll lose some
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: fat and then when they know it's not sustainable, they
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: put it back on. The water comes back on, all
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: the fat comes on, an extra fat, and then nan
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: muscle doesn't come back, and then they're back to their
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: original WIP, but they're proportionally more fat less muscle, which
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: means their metabolic ret has declined even if they eat
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the same calories that then put on extra WIT and
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: then they go again and diet. That's what I see
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: as the future of this stuff, right, But the pharmaceutical
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: industry are loving it, right because they go, well, the
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: solution is just staying on for life.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know. That's why Copenhagen's whole economic profile has
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: just suddenly boomed because of was impact coming out of Denmark, right,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: And so we're looking at how much money is circulating.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Of course, there's a gazillion jobs that have been come up.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: There's research job, there's production jobs, and it all has
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: to do with this pharmaceutical company and the fact that
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: there's so many people want it and they don't know
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: how to get off it. So it's the idea of
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: staying on it for life.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is a brilliant business model for your pharmacuticlt right, Dant. Now,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: actually you mentioned something there. We're going to take another
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: little diversion. Soccopinia and osteocyclopinia, so loss of bone and
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: lost soycopinia's loss of muscle. I did a podcast the
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: other day. I was just discussing research paper. I had
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: two research papers in sycopenia, right, which traditionally, so for
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: the lay people, that's a loss of muscle where it
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: starts to impact your functional ability, and we typically thought
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: of it as a geriatric disease. Right, it kicks in
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: sixty five And then I read this research paper and
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: it was like seven percent of people in their forties
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: had syclopedia, And then another one just came out that
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: they reckon at least one in ten youths have got syclopedia.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I nearly fell off my freaking chair, Like.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: The future for these people is pretty disastrous, right, Can
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: you just talk our listeners through the impact of that
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: of getting syclopedia early, even in your forties, But then, like,
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: what's the future looked like if you have sarcopenia in
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: your teams?
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I'll start at the end and work my
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: way back. We know that muscle and leg strength is
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: directly correlated to cognition in older age, and they're saying
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: that with.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Script strength, right yeah, and grip strength yeah yeah.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Yep, And it has to do with muscle function really, right,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: So the more muscle function you have, or the more
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: muscle you have, the stronger you are, and the better
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: metabolism you have it feeds forward to Brainhow So we're
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: looking at teens and we used to call them skinny fat, right,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: but now we have to say sarcopenia. Still the same thing,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: where on the outside you look nice and thin, but
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: on the inside you have the profile of a very sick,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: metabolically sick, and obese person. Yeah, I think about the
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: lack of quality of life because we're going to start
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: seeing increased cognitive decline at an earlier stage. We're going
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: to see an increase in all of our metabolic burden
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: diseases on the public health care systems, you know, depending
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: on where you are, insurance company or not, lack of funding.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: We're going to see an increase uptake of more drugs, to.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: More drugs, and then more drugs for the secondary side
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: effects of the primary drugs.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly, all of the things. This is cascade that
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: is starting earlier and earlier. And I'm like, well, maybe
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: it's Mother Nature coming in and going to kill us off, right,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: because we're killing the planet. But in all regards, it's
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: like humanity is not being stressed in the way that
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: it needs to be. Well, I should say Western society humanity,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: because if we think about the whole world in itself,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: there's this incredible disconnect of everyone is there's so much
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: food available, but we see everyone is malnourished. We have
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: malnourishment with obesity, and we have malnourishment from lack of
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: calorie availability. But when we look at the health concern
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: that come with malnourishment and obesity, it's so much worse
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: than the health concerns that come with malnourishment from lack
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: of calories, because with the lack of calories, we're still
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: able to have better insulin control, you know, we have
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: more movement for brain health, we have the availability to
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: maintain a better body composition because of the movement and
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: activity needed to find the calories. But when we have
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: the malnourishment with obesity, we're just having this cascade and
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: wide problem of metabolic syndrome or brain health, cognitive dysfunction,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: or bone density. And both men and women. Osteoporosis is
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: not just a woman's disease. We're seeing significant increase in men,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: younger men at that too. And then the biggest thing
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: when I tell men is like also low testostera, and
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: no one wants to really acknowledge that, But we look
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: at the norms for iron and hormone function, the low
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: end of normal has shifted where things like iron needs
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: to be fifty for Fairton, it's now down to fifteen.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Because we're having a sicker and sicker population. So the
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: norms are being.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Known to dropping. Jesus Christ.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: So when we try to get someone to get help, right,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: but you're in the low end of.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Normal, normal, which twenty years ago was shit us right. Yeah, yeah,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: And that's what a lot of people don't understand is
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: those blood tests are based on the norms of the population,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: so they will shift over time as we get worse.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: But that was a beautiful description of what the future
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: looks like for somebody who's getting syclopedia early because, as
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: you said, metabolic dysfunction, and then because their muscles don't
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: work well to support them, they do less and less
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: physical activity. Then they put on we it. Then they're
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: going to end up on a zempic, right, and then
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: you know, the whole thing gets worse. And Jesus Christ,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: if you're on a zempic in your twenties, oh my god.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: The future. The future does not look bride right, it
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: really doesn't. And I don't think we can Actually one
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: other thing, I've read a research paper just today that
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: fifty percent of autism spectrum disorder is attributable to maternal
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: obesity and during pregnancy fifty percent, And it's something like
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: thirty percent of ADHD, Right, I believe it's attributable to
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: obesity during pregnancy, and so like this is just it's
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: that cascade that you talked about, right, is just there's
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: unintended consequences freaking left, right and center, isn't there?
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was doing a pregnancy lecture when I was pregnant,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: so a while ago. I was showing the research that
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: was coming out then about how you shouldn't be afraid
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: to exercise, even at a higher intensity because of the
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: blood flow diversion that occurs at the uterus and the placenta,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Because when you stop exercising, it's a signal to increase
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: the vascularization of the placenta, which improves the metabolic function
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: to and from the womb, which increases the baby's health
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: status as it's growing and developing, and also causes genetic
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: change or expression, you know, the epigen.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Cresha to.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: More of a lean childhood into lean adults. So good
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: for the mom as she is pregnant, to help with
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: preclamsia and you know, not gaining a lot of weight
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: and mental stability and all the things that we want
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: exercise for. But we need to disseminate it down that
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: exercise stress is incredibly beneficial for the developing fetus with
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: regards to after it's born and how it progresses through life.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Awesome. Just so is that some people may have just
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: kind of missed that with the terminology. So for the listeners,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: So genetic changes obviously are to do with your genes,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: but then the epigenome sits above the genes. I like
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: to describe it as as genes are the hardware. Epigenomes
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: the software that tells the genes how they operate it.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: And we know from way back the Dutch hunger study
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: in the was it the First World War the Second
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: World War that the stee it the physical health state
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: of the parents then saying signals to the genes of
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: that unborn fetus that then continue to express through life
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: and can massively affect their health trajectory through life. So
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: that whole thing, and I think there's two sides of
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: the coin. There is that being OBEs is creating epigenetic
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: changes that predispose not just for per metabolic health, but
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: now also auto suspection of the sort of idiot. But
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: the flip side of that, if you're as you're saying,
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: if you're exercizing regularly, you're then sending signals to that
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: fetus for its change to operate in a way that
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: it will be healthier throughout its life.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, more stress resilient. It comes down to the stress
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: resilience and how your genes are are being trained to
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: be super stress resilient.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and that's why I wrote a book called
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Death by Comfort while modern life is killing us and
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: what we need to do about it. Ye, yes, that's
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: the fun. Hey, everybody. At the risk of making everybody
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: very grumpy, This is the end of part one of
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: the podcast.
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: Because there was just so much information in this, we're
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: going to split it into two, so make sure you
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: tune in next week where there's lots of extra information
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: and heaps of practical advice from doctor Stacey Simms.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Catch you next time.