Latest / The Inner Well Podcast / An Unshakeable Foundation For Life: Recovery + The Inner Well
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- The Inner Well Podcast: We all contain a space within that when enlivened and nourished will support us with unwavering stability, expansion, and peace of mind. Join us each week as we dive into honest, grounded conversations about transcendental meditation, consciousness, and growth, and what it means to live an integrated life supported by a foundation of creativity and calm. This is the inner world. Hi everyone, welcome back to the Inner Well podcast. I'm Emily and I'm so excited to be speaking with Brandon Weinstock today. Brandon, we met almost three years ago when you learned transcendental meditation. And today we're going to get into a number of things, but I want to hear a little bit about your experience with TM. I know you've done other meditations in the past. And really this month we're focused on. recovery and sobriety and addiction and how many addictions ⁓ surface and how we have all these different tools, meditation being one of them. And I'd love to hear a little bit about your experience. Yeah, of course. Well first of all, thank you for having me on the podcast. Like I've I've been watching and listening to a lot of the episodes. Okay. And thank you for being my teacher. I mean, it was the the way I look at life now is kind of like it was life before TM and life after TM. And I say that with all seriousness, meaning that You know, when I came to you, what really happened was that about three years ago a friend of mine said, Have you ever tried TM? We were talking about mindfulness meditation. I said, No. You know, I was given a mantra when I was a little kid. I was like eight or nine years old. And then she was like, Well, here's my teacher's number. She gave me your number. She was I didn't call you for six months. And then I went through a kind of a life not a life crisis, but a difficult period, a breakup and it was a deep one. And I came to you in a lot of pain. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna try this TM thing and I I remember I you know I texted you and and we set it up and you know my journey since then is I feel like I've been on a rocket ship for the last you know two and a half almost three years so it it's amazing and I I remember that so well. I remember when you came in. I remember the course. I think there was one other person in the course and I remember, you know, you you expressed you were going through some challenges and you were so open and excited to try TM and 'cause you'd heard some things about it, there was willingness. And you kinda never looked back since then. Correct? Yes. I'd love to maybe take a step back and, you know, was meditation something that you've always been interested in? How did you get into meditation in the first place? That's great question. I mean, growing up my mom was a meditator, not not really mindfulness or TM, but other styles. So I was always I was always around it. Yeah. I'd seen it. but it wasn't really until I got into twelve-step recovery where meditation is a formal part of twelve-step recovery, that you start to have a practice. And I even then I didn't start doing meditation right away, right? It's the idea of sitting for a period of time, five minutes or two minutes, was really difficult, especially when for people that and we're gonna talk about this, I'm sure, but people that have addiction or by the way, any kind of addiction, when they're not When I'm not w they're not practicing your addiction, the uncomfortable the level of uncomfortability, the noise in the mind and the discomfort in the body makes it difficult to sit. Yes. And that's what keeps people in addiction, even in the first place, is the can be, is the need to silence all of that, to try to fix whatever is going on internally. And yeah, I I'd love to talk more about that because ⁓ you know, we'll get back to your story. I teach a lot of people in recovery and Even though the 11th step is meditation, prayer and meditation, I find that a lot of people are in recovery and they're like, ⁓ yeah, you I do it or it's not really it becomes something because I think it's so intangible, it's not as tangible as some of the other aspects of recovery. And so it becomes something that could be harder to grasp. Sure. But then I find when people really do find a meditation practice, TM being one of them, but a very effective one, it's almost like it it brings everything together. In a way. For me it felt like the pieces all started to put get put together. Right. All the work that I'd done in recovery and in twelve step twelve steps, you twelve step recovery, th the TM started to really gel everything together and it and it really took my recovery to another level as far as the stillness that I started to experience, the quietness of the mind that I started to to experience, the peace of mind, the serenity. Beautiful and so that's really the some of the main benefits that I got when I started doing TM. And did you find that you started to notice it pretty quickly? I mean, was it something that again, 'cause I I think you'd had some experience with meditation. I guess two questions. Did you notice benefits quickly? And did you notice a difference between what you were doing with transcendental meditation versus other meditation? Sure, I'm gonna answer the second part first. So I was doing mindfulness for a long time, various different kinds, either I went to workshops or apps or whatever I was doing. And I always re remember thinking like I was always on the surface of my mind. I was always fo trying to focus or, you know, on either on my breath or on the third eye point, whatever it was. But there was a lot of effort being exerted for me in mindfulness. And then when I came and learned TM, I remember I'll never forget it, because it was the most impactful experience that I've had yet, was that when I started to think my mantra, I immediately I could feel my body. I f it felt like my body just sat down on the inside. Like my nervous system just sat down. And it was on the I was like, ⁓ wow, that's powerful. And I then it was I just and and ever since I've been ever since then I've been slowly more and more just sitting into myself, just sinking into myself to a deeper beautiful deeper level. Yeah. So beautifully said. I love that. Here at this podcast we talk a lot about, of course, transcendental meditation, but A lot of meditation techniques exist, and some are more ⁓ powerful than others or profound or effective, but we can think of meditation as this sort of trying to deal with my mind, trying to quiet my mind. That experience you described so beautifully, it's like, yes, it's a mental technique, but it's totally physiological. The depth we can get from this technique, where the mind settles down, the body follows the mind, it's not something we have to. think our way into, right? It's like the opposite of that. There's a big misnomer, especially a lot of people that I talk to in recovery, where I can't, you know, I can't get they say I can't get my mind quiet. I can't stop. I can't stop my mind. My mind's too loud. And I'm not, you know, there's a principle of recovery where it's attraction rather than promotion. Right. So my job is not to promote anything of my recovery. It's it's if you're attracted to me and you want what I have, you'll ask me what I do and I'll share that. So I do pass on TM to people that I've talked to in in in recovery. Some of them have gone to do it, some of them have not. Yeah. ⁓ but I think the most important thing about that is that I the experience that I'm having, right, the chatter on the mind is like the surface of the ocean. Right. So ⁓ as you as as as we teach in TM, right? So or as you teach in TM, I'm not a TM teacher, but you can say it. Right. I but it's the it's the most visible and visceral way to explain it to people, they get it immediately. Yes. Right. So if the ocean is is choppy with little waves, okay, it's it's calm. But if there's this big storm on the if there's a lot going on in life, there's obsession, whatever it is going on in my life, obsession, anger, resentment, and the waves are big, no matter what, at the bottom of the ocean, deep down in the ocean, it's always still no matter how crazy it's going on the surface of the ocean. So TM allows me to just drop down into that quietness regardless of what's going on on the surface. And then as I come back up out of meditation, I get to bring a little of that quietness with me. Yes. And that's I think the be the most beautiful part of this practice. One hundred I love how you say that because I I couldn't agree more. You know, that's the other thing of why, you know, why, you know, me as a meditation teacher, you as someone who practices this technique, why do we do it? Why do we love it? It's not because we get twenty minutes to calm down in our busy life, it's that the nervous system starts to be in that state all the time. And I want to talk about that because the nervous system This is just my opinion. Okay, I'm not an expert on recovery or anything like that, but my opinion is that is that people that suffer from alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, whatever their you know, food disorders, it's all about the nervous system. Yes. Because when the drug addict doesn't have their drugs or the alcoholic doesn't have their alcohol or the food addict doesn't have their whatever it is, without the medicine, so to speak, the nervous system is a wreck. Yes. And I think that the twelve steps are designed specifically to help people calm the nervous system. And then the prayer and meditation, you know, it's no wonder that the 12 steps are designed in the order that they're designed in, right? That's right. The you know the idea is that when you get to step eleven, which is we sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, right? So there's a lot of components to that that I can break down if you want. Like absolutely. So we first of all, we have to seek. It says we sought. I have to seek. And I think a lot of recovery is just in the seeking, not necessarily in the finding. And TM has been a huge part in enabling me to just seek on a deeper level. So we sought through prayer and meditation. Now in some of the recovery literature it talks about, you know, prayer is great and meditation is great on their own, they're both great. But when taken together, you can build an unshakable foundation for life. And that's what I want. Right. Because the world outside is crazy and you know, I can be as safe as I want in a in a twelve step meeting. or, you know, with us with a sponsor or whatever I'm doing, but the world is kinda crazy right now. And I and we're and the wind's gonna blow and I'm gonna get shook and I wanna have that foundation th for life where I where I don't get where I don't get shaken. And and that's what meditation helps me build. And then the and then the last part of that, sorry to interrupt, was the conscious contact with God. Yes. Right now, I believe this is much my opinion, is that when I'm deep in my meditation And I'm connecting with that bliss, that inner bliss, that transcendent, that ⁓ you know, unbounded awareness that we talk about. For me, that's God. Yes. And I don't have to question God consciousness or bliss consciousness. For me, I for me it's one and the same that I get to feel that experience because recovery, at the end of the day, Emily, twelve step recovery is is I have to experience it. I have to feel it. I have to feel the recovery. I have to feel the prayer working, I have to feel the meditation working. Yes. So when I dive down deep and I feel that God consciousness, and then I bring that up with me twice a day. I meditate for 20 minutes, and then I bring that up with me to the rest of my day. I just have a I I just have a nicer day. It's it's it smooths out the nervous system. It just it it irons out the kinks in the fabric. So beautiful. And and I love how you said that. I I I'm always struck by how I do feel like the 12 steps sort of deliver so much of what. TM delivers in the way that we are, we are even through a meditation practice where you certainly you don't have to believe in anything. Anybody can practice TM, ⁓ but it is this experiential thing where we are actually using a technique that allows us to connect with that unbounded source within. And it reminds me too of ⁓ there's this wonderful video old from like the 70s where a bunch of Franciscan monks learned TM. And they were talking about it in this video, and they said, you know, we've always been told to connect with God and to pray to God and to speak to God, but we didn't have a tool to do that. And so for them, their meditation practice was delivering that conscious contact with something. And again, we don't have to believe in anything, we can have our own experience. But why I think TM is so effective when someone is in recovery is that ⁓ we take it out of this mental something abstract and we bring it into the physiology and we make it experience based. That's exactly what it is, right? It I I f I feel it when I dive down in my meditation and I feel that stillness and that calmness. And and then I get I get intuitive thoughts when I'm down there. I get these deep ideas that come to me. You know, David Lynch talked about it, right? The his book ⁓ catching the big thank you. Catching the big fish, right? So I try to sometimes I'm probably shouldn't be doing this in in TM, but sometimes when I'm deep in my meditation and and a great idea comes to me, I'm like I think to myself, ooh, I gotta remember that. And I really try to remember it when I come out of meditation because I I do get some deep inspiration from that from that deep place. And I and I wanna reemphasize like, you know, we talk about in sometimes you'll hear in 12 step recovery, well, prayer is talking to God and meditation is listening. Yes. And now I don't hear voices when I'm meditating. If anything, what it what what TM does for me is it allows me to connect to a deeper level of me, right? Yes. The God within me, the higher power within me, the the greater consciousness within me. Because I at the end of the day, if I'm really work you know, perfecting and enlarging my spiritual life, my goal is to try to seek consciousness in everything. Exactly. And that's the that's the ultimate challenge. So And that's it, right. And I think that What this does, again, everything you're saying, it's so profound. It's that this is taking sort of abstract concepts for many people, perhaps. You know, maybe someone listening, maybe they're very familiar with consciousness, maybe they practice transcendental meditation. ⁓ maybe not. Maybe they're curious about it. And I'm just I'm curious to hear because you do talk, like you said, it's not promotion, it's attraction and recovery, but you do talk to people about meditation and maybe your experience with TM. How would you, you know, and you did that beautiful ocean analogy, but how do you kind of Talk to someone or how would you talk to someone listening who is interested in what you're saying, maybe in the early days of recovery but it all feels a lot overwhelming. Like what how could they approach something like that? Yeah, so the first thing I would say is that you don't have to wait till you're on the eleventh step to start meditating. Right, which is one of the most important things. I my experience I didn't learn to meditate early on in recovery. had I but this was my journey this was my path I came to my consciousness was ready for mindfulness and then TM when it was ready for for these experiences. But if you're new in recovery I strongly suggest that you find any meditation practice, not just TM, anything that works for you at for now. If it's five minutes on an app, whatever it is. ⁓ I like TM you know for me just because it is it's it's effortless, right? I don't have to do anything. I just sit I think my mantra, and then before I know it, I'm not thinking anything anymore. And I'm just resting in this deep place within me that is quiet and still and feels beautiful. And then I come out and then, you know, you pick up the mantra again and you go and you go back down. And it's it's just it's effortless and it's simple. Beautiful. You know, someone sent me one time a ⁓ a documentary about Bill W. Bill Wilson. Bill Wilson was the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. And, you know, I what the what the documentary talked about was that Bill W. actually learned transcendental meditation in his last year or two of life. He was suffering from he was suffering from emphysema. And the person that sent me the documentary was an AA and they sent me this. And it, you know, the teacher who taught Bill said that Bill said to him, I didn't truly understand the 11th step until I started doing TM. Now, this is a guy who was sober for a long time, started all 12-step recovery. Every 12-step recovery program stems from From Alcoholics Anonymous. Incredible. And just to hear that, that even at late stages in life, you can now he had emphysema, right? So emphysema, you can't breathe. And this is what I've noticed that I, you know, I've had I've suffered from anxiety and panic attacks my whole life, even well into recovery. Yeah. And I think that's one of the important points that I want to get across to anybody who's listening to this is that it's normal, it's okay to have anxiety, it's okay to have panic attacks when you're when you're when you're in sobriety, when you're in recovery. What I've come to understand and believe is that that's my nervous system undoing and expelling whatever it needs to get out of my system over years and years and years of the damage that I did when I was younger and other things that happened to me and ch you know, when I was a kid. So don't be afraid of it. And and what TM allows me to do is it allows me to just soften and smooth out the my nervous system. So beautifully said. And I think really important to hear that. Again, there's this idea idea, and even all the things you and I are talking about. ⁓ we have this amazing technique and it settles us down and we get the space of beautiful bliss and unboundedness. And yes, absolutely that's true. And it doesn't mean that there's never feelings of anxiety or feelings of being tossed around by the reality of life. But it's that having that ability to then settle back down and even more awareness, you know, to recognize like, ⁓ I am. I am not that anxiety. That anxiety is something else. It's something coming up, moving through and leaving. I don't have to identify it. I don't have to, you know, it doesn't have to take over me and take me out and all of these things. True. That it's part of it. And here's here's a better part, is that what I've come to really understand is that when the anxiety or the panic comes up, and there are times where I'm doing meditation where my mind is very active and it's very busy. And what I've come to understand is that the thoughts that are coming out, everything that's coming up, it's just stress. It's it's it's for me it's stress, it's relieving. And it's coming up and it's coming out. It has to go, it has to come out the same way that it went in. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I always say that, like, you know, think of it as all the experiences we're taking in throughout our life. We have to digest them, right? In the same way that we have to digest food and water. We have to like process and metabolize and digest our experiences. And some of those experiences are hard to really work their way through. What this technique does is it cultivates this nervous system that can very quickly facilitate a release of stress. Right. I was looking earlier today at some research on TM and addiction, and I just thought I would read this very ⁓ high level, but there's a huge number of studies, and these studies were particularly looking at alcohol use, substance abuse disorder, but they found that when TM was integrated into any kind of alcohol use disorder treatment, that through consistent regular practice, stress was lowered. Alcohol cravings were lowered. So again, that's a very physical thing to have the experience of cravings. And they looked at TM helping to lower chemical dependency by improving overall psychophysiological health, right? So reducing distress. It's it's not just sort of a you know an idea. They can measure that this is actually having an influence on our physiology. And there's a lot of really interesting research about again when you incorporate this technique into any kind of process. It also helps whatever you're doing ⁓ become a little stickier. So like a habit might become a better habit. You might start to do, you know, go to bed earlier, wake up earlier, and do your 20 minutes twice a day. And it all feels very effortless. Have you found, I mean, I think you have been someone who has had routines in life, but have you found that TM is not only enjoyable, but it's easy to stick to, it's easy to get into your day? 100%. You know, in the beginning, it's like, ⁓ my God, 20 minutes twice a day. But from in my experience, I I f the the the feeling that I experience doing TM and then I continue to feel, it's not a chore. Sitting down is not a chore. And it there are times where my meditation feels like it's gone by in five minutes and it's been it's been a full twenty minutes. So, you know, I've I've because I look at meditation as a form of self care. Mm-hmm. And I've come to care about myself and I love myself. I give myself the gift of meditation twice a day. Whatever anyone else wants to give themselves, as long as you're giving yourself that gift of recovery. And for me, a huge component of that is is my TM practice. So I you know, I schedule around my my meetings or my work or my recovery meetings, whatever it is, I schedule that around my practice. It's so beautiful. And yeah, it's like filling up your cup, knowing what's feeding you, knowing what's serving you, committing to that and you know, even just having these conversations and sharing about this. I mean That's what has been so fulfilling about this podcast. A lot of people have learned about TM through this podcast and come in, they're I've never heard of it. And then I heard this podcast. And I'm sure a lot of people out there listening are, you know, having struggles of all kinds. I think the entrance into recovery varies for different people. But I love how you're describing that this technique is such a beautiful part of that process that you have. Yeah. Look, I think. You don't have to be twelve step recovery to do TM or any kind of meditation. I think as human beings, we're all recovering from something. And I haven't met a person, whether they're in twelve step recovery or not, that doesn't have something going on their life. And, you know, for me to have that balance and that bliss, and I know that people can see it in me because they say it to me, right? They come up to me and they're like, Wow, Brandon, like you've changed, you're different. You're so calm and I it's I'm not promoting anything. It's more of an attraction thing, right? They come up to me or they want to be in my orbit or they want to learn what it is that I'm doing or when I'm speaking at a twelve step meeting, whatever's going on, and I talk about my recovery and the processes that I've gone through because the ⁓ the the work is not just not doing the substance or whatever brings someone into twelve step recovery. The real work is what it's like when I'm not doing it. It's in sobriety, it's when I'm clean, it's when I'm not, you know, engaging. And when I'm saying I'm, I'm talking about generally engaging in whatever that addictive behavior was, is that's the struggle. How do I get myself to feel calm and serene and blissful and at peace when I don't have those things? And that's that's the eternal journey. That's emotional sobriety. That's it. TM has have has helped solidify and deepen the emotional sobriety that I found. So beautiful. And I think such a great distinction because I think and that's you know, just recovery. Is s obviously so much more than sobriety. Sure. And sobriety from the substance is only part of it, right? And that's what I think, you know, when this is why honestly some of my favorite people to teach TM to are people in recovery because there is a openness, a willingness, a curiosity. There's somehow just a a a an acceptance of something, a willingness to to just Be and learn and see and the experiences can be really profound. Absolutely. You know, look when in the beginning when you're in recovery, it's difficult because you're you're first learning how to not how to live without whatever it is that you're doing, right? Whatever substance that is. And I'll and I'm speak for myself, whatever substance I'm not doing, whatever behavior I'm not doing, I had to learn how to live with that. But at a certain point, we cross over from learning not not it not being about what I'm not doing, but about maintaining what I have found. Right. The serenity that I found, the peace of mind that I have found, having no resentments in my life, not having to look over my shoulder, not having to make amends to anybody. Doesn't mean I don't make mistakes and have to apologize every now and then. Absolutely. And make amends. But it's just it's ha it's building that it's increasing that foundation, right? I have to I have to perfect and enlarge my spiritual life. That is not a one-time thing, right? I d it's not a one-time thing. Let me just learn how to meditate or Do a couple minutes here. It's not and it's not checking boxes. That's right. If my recovery is about checking boxes, then I'm not really deepening. I'm not going to that to the deeper level that I can get to. And here's the other here's the kicker. The deeper that I go, the more issues that I'm gonna find, right? The more things that are gonna come up and come out. But at the end of the day, isn't that what I want? Right? So yes, I might have to have a little bit of pain. Yes. And or a little bit of grief or whatever it is or a little bit of sadness and feel all those feelings because people that are in recovery, this is my opinion, don't want to feel. Right. I don't want to feel my feelings. Right. And it's and it's absolutely so what and what TM one of the gifts that I've seen from t from T ⁓ is that it just it it softens the blow of everything. Yes. And everything is not so intense. That's right. Someone something that someone says to me or someone an angers me or they something triggers me, it's just It my nervous system doesn't take it the same way and I don't I don't spiral anymore. And and a lot of people on recovery talk about spiraling, right? They get triggered and something happens and they spiral and it takes them a couple days to recover. You know, it's it's like the emotional hangover. That's right. And that's a nervous system response, right? You can talk yourself out of it, you can intellectualize yourself out of it, but it's a nervous system response. And I I love that because, you know, what is transcending anyway? Transcend means to go beyond. That's right. And what happens when we meditate. Is we go beyond the surface value of life, all those things that just happened at the quieter and quieter and quieter levels. We experience what is beyond, which is that unbounded state of pure awareness, which is ourself, which is naturally not those things on the surface. So then we come out, and it's not like we've sat there in meditation necessarily processing the thing that's happened, but we come out and suddenly. We have perspective on those things because suddenly we recognize how much we are not that. It's like that identification ⁓ is harder. It's not as sticky as you were saying. It's not in the nervous system. That's right. My nervous system is not grabbing onto it anymore and holding onto it for dear life. Yes. When I when I'm when I'm when I'm meditating and I'm deep down in that in that what I call blissful place of consciousness, whatever I whatever the names I come up with, I detach. Yes. And detach from whatever it is that my mind wants to obsess about. And then when I come back out of my meditation, my mind is no longer gr you know, my my meat hooks are no longer grabbing on for dear life, whatever that thing was that was just ten minutes ago or twenty minutes ago before I started meditation is bot is bothering me. So it it it allows me to loosen my grip and to soften my grip on life. And wouldn't you say, I mean, the way I always think of that is isn't that complete freedom? And isn't that sort of what we're all wanting is total freedom in life. Yeah. Freedom from boundaries, freedom from, you know, freedom in experiences to have all of those beautiful things we want in life, sure. But not to feel gripped and overshadowed. In recovery parlance, we would say that's freedom from the bondage to self. Exactly. Okay. From the the bondage. Yes. I've I was always in bondage. If a at one point I was in bondage to, you know, whether whatever chemical or thing I was doing outside of myself. But then but there's still bondage even in recovery. That's right. And that's what that's the difficult part that people don't understand when they first come into 12-step recovery is that there's bondage in recovery, and I have to slowly go down, and that's what the 12-steps are designed to do, is to slowly go into that bondage and release whatever it is, whether it's fear or resentment, and then to g to all of a sudden be able to walk upright and to feel confident and to and to you know reclaim agency and to just know that I'm a child of God, that I am My consciousness is connected to your consciousness, to everybody's everything's consciousness, and that I can be at perfect ease and peace with myself in the world. And I don't have to fight anymore. And I don't have to, you know, get angry over everything. And I don't have to necessarily even have an opinion on all these outside things that are going on. I can just keep the focus on myself. I can take care of me, make sure that I'm passing on whatever message I need to pass on, and then wake up and do it do it again. Beautiful. So well said, Brandon. I just it's it's such a pleasure to talk to you about this and I I know that people listening are gonna get so much out of what you're saying. Since this is the inner well podcast, we always ask our guests at the end, what is the inner well to you? What does that mean? It's that deepest place of me, right? It's I I believe that, you know, that we are made in the image of God, right? That God is within every man, woman and child deep down. And the inner well for me is that place of of consciousness, it's God consciousness, it's safety, it's security, it's ocayness, it's serenity, it's all the things that I've always wanted and that I was searching for and a lot of things outside of myself and now I found that it's deep down within. So powerful, so beautifully said. Thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. Yeah, thank you for having me. Really hope to have you back again and continue these conversations. I'd love it. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. That's a wrap on today's episode of The Inner Well. Please subscribe and leave a review. Your support means the world and helps others find us. And if this conversation added something to your day, don't be shy. Share it with someone it might resonate with. Also, please follow us on social for more between episodes and send in your questions, your stories, or the topics you'd like to explore with us. We genuinely love hearing from you and this podcast exists because of you. So keep showing up for yourself and we'll see you next week.