Latest / Revenue Problem Solvers / How to Build a Pipeline on LinkedIn Without Cold Calling | Natasha Walstra

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How to Build a Pipeline on LinkedIn Without Cold Calling | Natasha Walstra · Revenue Problem Solvers

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  Where I had to cold call, smile, and dial $100 a day.
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  Like they literally had a mirror in front of my desk that I had
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  to smile as I called people and I was terrible at it.
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  Like it just totally broke me. I am an introvert, I used to be
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  super shy as well so you can imagine this was just the worst
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  position for me. Welcome back everybody to the
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  Revenue Problem Solvers podcast, where we try to crack the code
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  and grow your business by tackling the challenges to keep
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  revenue leaders up at night. I'm Carl Ortmanzo.
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  On today's episode, we're going to dive into the topic of
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  building pipeline. So today's podcast is sponsored
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  by the great team at Virtual Causeway.
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  Traditional demand Gen. is breaking for a lot of teams that
• 0:38
  we talked to on the Revenue Problem Solvers podcast.
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  Now Virtual Causeway will help you fix that by shifting you
• 0:42
  away from demand generation to demand positioning.
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  Instead of chasing form fills, they actually can engineer where
• 0:49
  and how your brand appears when buyers research through AI tools
• 0:52
  and peer networks. The result, fewer cold motions,
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  more high intent conversations and revenue team spending time
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  with people that are actually looking to buy.
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  Check them out at virtualcauseway.com.
• 1:05
  And don't forget to mention the show for a special rate.
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  Now my guest today is Natasha Walstra and Natasha is the
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  founder of Nearpoint Strategies and the creator of the Real
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  Relationship, real relationship growth method.
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  Natasha's obsession with relationship driven growth
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  didn't start as a LinkedIn strategy, it actually started as
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  a career long pattern that she kept seeing.
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  The people who win long term are the ones who know how to build
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  trust at scale. Early on she built real world
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  business shops in places that you might not actually expect.
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  From business development Buenos Aires at My Lovely Apartment to
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  working in independent film at younger productions.
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  It's where she picked up the mindset that still shows in her
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  work today. Don't ask result.
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  Then she moved into tech and sales and things got really very
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  real, real fast. At Wishby, she learned the hard
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  lessons of outbound competition and finding a way to hit numbers
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  when cold calling wasn't the answer.
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  That's where LinkedIn became more than a platform, it became
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  a lever. From there, she joined Carbon,
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  where she went from SDR to in senior inside sales manager, and
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  she also became known internally as the face of Carbon on
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  LinkedIn. She trained teams across the
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  company on how to use LinkedIn to build credibility and even
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  use the platform to book meetings ahead of major events
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  and trade shows. Now joining the thought
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  leadership and publishing world at Forbes Books and Advantage.
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  That's where she LED member development and sales built and
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  scaled at BDR function drove major portion of pipeline
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  through outbound. And that's where the next
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  insight clicked. She was surrounded by brilliant
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  leaders with incredible stories and even with big
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  accomplishments, if they didn't know how to talk about the what
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  they built, the market wouldn't magically find them.
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  That's where her her launch of near Strad Nearpoint strategies
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  came in and more recently, the real relationship growth method.
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  It's a community and framework for founders and executives.
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  As Natasha says, the goal isn't to go viral.
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  It's to get off LinkedIn and build real relationships at
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  driver of it. Natasha, welcome to the podcast
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  and thank you for joining us. Thanks Carl.
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  That was like the best opening ever.
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  Really, I, I try to make sure that they're, they're intro, It
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  seems like there's maybe a new hobby for me or an opportunity
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  because it's, it seems like that's been said by most.
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  So, but thank you for the the context or for the for the
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  compliment. Yeah, no, that was, that was
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  impressive. I'm like, wait a second, I did.
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  I did do that. Yeah.
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  Thank you. My pleasure.
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  To kick us off, Can you give us a little context about your
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  world? What industries or verticals do
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  you work with? What are your selling motions?
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  What size companies do you work with?
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  Loaded question a little bit. I know it shouldn't be, but I
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  have not niche down, which is always like the to niche or not
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  to niche. But I do work with a lot of
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  business owners and female founders.
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  Those are who are primarily my cohort that I launched in the
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  fall. But I also work with a lot of
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  sales teams and executive teams and those are typically, you
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  know, SAS tech companies. Their sales teams can range from
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  10:00 to 2030 plus people on them.
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  So it is definitely a range. And one day I'll I'll niche
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  down. But because of what I do with
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  LinkedIn and have such a unique perspective and approach to it,
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  that seems to work pretty well. So yeah.
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  It's awesome How we got to the topic today is Zach and I had
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  our prep chat and I asked the question, looks like I asked
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  everybody, hey, what's the successful revenue initiative
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  you've LED or an existing revenue challenge that you've
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  either solved or are solving? And she kind of said it's, well,
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  it's building pipeline, but then jumped more specifically to it's
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  using LinkedIn as a way to build your pipeline.
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  So many questions on this, especially from the podcast and
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  doing everything that I'm doing. I have so many questions, but
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  maybe we can start here. How did you learn how to
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  leverage LinkedIn to build your pipeline?
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  Like what was that unlock for you all?
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  Right, I love this question because it's I never intended to
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  take on LinkedIn or build a personal brand.
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  I actually didn't even know what personal branding was until I
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  was working at Forbes books when I was intentionally in that
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  world of thought leadership and personal branding.
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  But what happened to me is that I landed a sales position as an
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  SDR, right? A sales development
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  representative where I had to cold call, smile and dial 100
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  dials a day. Like they literally had a mirror
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  in front of my desk that I had to smile as I called people.
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  Come on, really. Everybody on your desk had.
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  Everybody in the in the company had one.
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  Well, I was, yeah, there was a few of us in the office where I
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  was based in in Redwood City. They were based out in, in Spain
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  and, and I was terrible at it. Like it just totally broke me.
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  I am an introvert. I used to be super shy as well.
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  So you can imagine this was just the worst position for me.
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  And I'm also really competitive though.
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  And so I was like, how do I hit my numbers but not cry every day
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  running out of the office like purple in the face.
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  And that's how I discovered using LinkedIn as a way to
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  connect, network and then warm call.
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  And it turns out people are much more receptive to that.
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  So it really was like out of fear and competition, I'm like,
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  I can't do it this way, but I have to hit my numbers.
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  I'm super, super competitive. And LinkedIn was a cool way of
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  doing it. And so that was about 10 years
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  ago and nobody was really using LinkedIn that way then.
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  I, I will admit I was totally pitch slapping in the DMS and
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  doing the things that I tell people not to do at all now.
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  But back then it worked. And I booked, I, I booked some
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  really big companies and names by doing it that way.
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  And, and that was the beginning of everything that I do today.
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  What's funny about it though, is that the company I was at, they
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  didn't agree with my approach. They were all about metrics,
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  right? And activity.
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  And so I was doing much less quantity.
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  I was focusing on quality and they didn't see eye to eye on
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  that. So I I had I not quit I'm sure
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  they would have fired me pretty soon afterwards anyways so.
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  Yeah, the the activity monster is something that you continue
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  to hear, right? Well, you've got to do 100
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  activities a day. If not, you missed it.
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  And it's like, OK, well, at some point I got to look into it.
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  So going back to that moment for you, I I'm trying to I'm in my
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  mind, I'm envisioning like a mirror in front of me with a a
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  landline like picking it up, not having this, not having the soft
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  no, Maybe you had a dial or something, but.
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  No, I had a phone. Yeah, I had to pick it up.
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  The landline. Yep.
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  So you physically had to pick it up, look at yourself, smile, and
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  then hit go. That's.
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  And and I was dialing into car dealerships, which is brutal as
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  you can imagine. So you're selling to the persona
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  that is commonly referred to as the worst in the profession.
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  How funny is that? Yeah, it's, it sucked and but
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  like, I will be honest, I was so bad at it too.
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  And I, I don't know if it's worth going into the story, but
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  I, I was on a call with leadership, the CEO, manager,
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  director, and they're telling me how shit I was at cold calling
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  basically. And I sat there and I was like
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  kind of having a panic attack. It was my first one ever,
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  actually, which was crazy because the same day I had like
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  an hour and a half later in person meeting with the
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  president of Nokia, which I had connected and figured out, like
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  through my network on LinkedIn. Yeah.
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  So I end up leaving that call being like, so distraught,
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  almost about to throw the computer out the window kind of
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  thing, right? I'm driving to Nokia and I end
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  up I get there and I sat down and I was like, I have no idea
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  what I'm doing here. I think I'm going to resign
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  tomorrow. And I did.
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  So the guy actually asked for my resume and then gave me a tour
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  of the office. But yeah, it was so crazy.
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  So were you going to sell to Nokia or you?
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  Were going to I was yeah, I was going to sell yeah, I, I.
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  So did you close the deal like? Or no, I told him I couldn't
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  pitch. I couldn't pitch him because I
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  was so upset with like how they treated me.
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  I was like, I can't work for this company.
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  Like, this is ridiculous. So I ended up resigning the next
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  day. Yeah.
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  And then and then Nokia hired you.
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  They didn't. No, I did.
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  He did ask for my resume, but I I ended up actually going off to
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  carbon from there. So it was.
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  It ended up working out really well because they really
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  appreciated my crazy LinkedIn stuff.
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  But. So let's try to go back to that
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  because there's like as we're building funnels and we've
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  talked a little bit about activity already.
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  So maybe this is the way, if we go back to that moment you had
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  to do all these, you're just constantly call calling, right?
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  Like that's the thing you're doing.
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  When you started to look at your funnel and said, you know what,
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  this just isn't for me. There's this new platform that
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  people are using. Is it LinkedIn?
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  Like how did you connect the two of like, hey, maybe I should go
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  to this thing over here and start to connect and drive a
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  different conversation. What was that moment for you and
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  how did you come to the conclusion that that's where you
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  want to spend your time? Well, it was better than call.
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  I needed to figure something else out.
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  I was already using LinkedIn to like make sure that person was
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  still at the company. So it was like the right
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  information that I was getting from the list that they had
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  given me, right? Often times those were super out
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  of date. And so I'd go check the person,
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  see if they're actually on where they, you know, said they were.
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  And so as I was doing, I'm like, why don't I just message them,
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  right and connect with them and then like kind of be familiar
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  1st. And so I did that.
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  I just, I would connect with everybody and, and send a
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  message and then follow up and then I, it wasn't at my first
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  position that I was creating content yet.
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  I didn't know about that part. I have a funny story about how I
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  started creating content though. Actually, what really kicked
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  that off was I was at the same time, I was bartending still and
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  this guy comes in who was a sales leader at Oracle or
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  something. I'm forgetting which company he
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  was at, but I, I was like on this high where I just
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  discovered LinkedIn and messaging and I'd like maybe
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  booked my first call or who, whatever it was, I think it was
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  with Home Depot. I'd booked a call with him.
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  So I was, I was like on on one basically.
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  And the guy that was like, he comes in and picks up his order
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  and was like, what you overheard what I was saying?
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  He's like, what you need to do is start publishing articles
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  because then you'll be a thought leader and you'll be look really
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  smart. And I was like, oh man, that is
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  really smart. I'm like, maybe I should start
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  creating articles, you know. So that's kind of what sparked
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  me to think about, OK, I guess I could create content.
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  I never thought about that, you know, And, and I did.
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  Wow. So how did you, So what, when
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  did you start that shift? So when you moved into the
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  LinkedIn, you started messaging like how did you start that?
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  Did you just start to look people up and send them a
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  generic message or like was there a strategy behind it?
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  How did you approach it? Yeah, So it was the next
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  position that was like more. It was I was working at a really
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  cool 3D printing tech company, right, Unicorn tech company in
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  in Silicon Valley. And we were doing really cool
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  shit. And I had no idea though, what
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  anything in the additive manufacturing space was.
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  I only knew it as 3D printing and very limited.
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  And So what happened was, and it was actually I, I found most
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  recently a, a pitch stop I'd actually sent to somebody my
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  like third or fourth day at the company.
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  I had my teammate ask like, help me craft this message of like,
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  hey, we do this, you know, make isotropic and use properties,
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  all the stuff. I had no idea what I was saying,
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  but it worked. And it was a top VP of
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  manufacturing at a top contact manufacturer and booked the
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  call. My team was like completely
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  floored by that because they had just been cold calling at the
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  time too. And so that worked.
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  But then I was like, OK, I'm, I am reaching out to these VPS of
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  engineers and CT OS and I want to at least look credible, even
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  though I have no idea what I'm talking about.
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  So why don't I start sharing stuff that our partner and
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  clients are up to. And you know, I'm in a building
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  full of experts as well. So I, we were partnered with
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  companies like Adidas, Lamborghini, Ford, Vitamix,
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  right? So I start to share all this
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  content of the things that we were creating with them.
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  I'd set up my Google alerts and so I'd get notified right away,
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  you know, when we, when we were featured in the news and it got
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  to the point actually our, our, the VP of marketing at our
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  company got mad at me. Not mad, but he's like, you're
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  making us look bad. Like, how are you finding all
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  this stuff beforehand? I'd share it and then it would
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  like go viral. And it was so cool because
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  again, I had no idea what I was talking about, but I looked like
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  I did and our company looks really good because of it.
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  And that's how I really took on this role within the
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  manufacturing space. Like a lot of you know, I'm even
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  today working with companies that Remember Me from those
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  days, from the events I'd go to. And I just had built such a a
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  reputation for creating content, showing up and bringing in new
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  opportunities that it just, it spiraled from there.
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  That's. Very cool.
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  How did you get to learn the platform?
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  I, I, I guess that's my, what I'm thinking about is you went
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  from the call you started to send some people.
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  I know you said pitch slapping, pitch pitch with AP, not a
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  different letter, but pitch slapping.
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  So how did you go about learning the platform to try to generate
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  these new leads? Like what was that for you and
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  how did you even go about it? Gosh, you're taking me back.
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  This is so cool. I, it was taking the list that
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  they, I was supposed to be going after and I would just reach out
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  specifically on there. So like, I'll give you example,
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  like events was a big thing that we were doing.
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  Obviously this pre COVID, I would check to see who all was
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  going attending. I follow the hashtag at the
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  time. You could follow hashtags.
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  You can't anymore, unfortunately.
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  But it would start to show up at my feet and I would just connect
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  with everybody. I had this mindset.
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  It's called Sinveraguenza, which means no shame in Spanish.
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  And basically I would approach it and I don't know, I can say
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  segue really quickly because it's kind of cool.
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  For those of you who don't feel comfortable on LinkedIn, this is
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  a really good mindset shift. So when I, I lived in Argentina
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  for six years and my first few months when I got there, I, I
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  was too scared to speak Spanish and sound stupid and make
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  mistakes. And so I didn't.
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  And so I like wasn't learning the language at all.
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  Finally after six months, I was so frustrated.
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  I'm like, fuck it, I'm just going to start, sorry, swear.
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  I should just start speaking, make mistakes, put myself out
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  there. And I did.
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  And literally within a few weeks, I, I was fluent in
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  Spanish. And so I took that same mindset
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  of like Sinveraguenza, right? No shame, Just put yourself out
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  there. Don't care if people don't
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  accept your connection request or don't respond back.
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  It's not a big deal. It's not personal, right?
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  Sinveraguenza and so I, I just went at it that way of like,
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  let's not care too much and let's be a little shameless and
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  just start connecting, DM ING, sending messages, all the
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  things. And and I really like I would
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  sit there at, you know, after work even and just start
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  connecting with all the people companies that I was targeting
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  or that was like going to be presenting at the, the trade
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  shows and that sort of thing. So that was how it like began.
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  Obviously I got more strategic around it of, of like who are we
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  really trying to? Well, I mean, I had targeted
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  Lister, so I, I was pretty specific.
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  I would just, I'd connect with a lot of people and then create
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  the content that showed we were doing the thing we said we did
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  and just talking about really cool stuff, you know?
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  Very cool. I like that.
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  I you said it's Sidon beta Gwenza.
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  Yeah. Yeah, we.
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  Could, but I do like that sort of mindset shift of like, you
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  know what if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.
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  Like what what's what's the worst case that happened, right?
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  It's sort of like gives me the be careful what you wish for
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  because you just might get it sort of maximality, right?
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  Yeah, well, 'cause I initially I would like look back to see who
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  didn't accept my connection request or something and I'd be
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  bummed out. And it's like, it's not
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  personal. Like I think most people aren't
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  active on there. They're not doing what we do,
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  right. So it's, it is, it's no big
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  deal, you know. So how did, so how did you get
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  into that? Like let's shift as we start to
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  think about the trail I you started to make the connection
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  points. You talked a little bit about
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  pitch slapping of what that was in connecting with a bunch of
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  people. So how did you start to figure
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  out the formula of what LinkedIn is?
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  Because it still feels like a platform that most people don't
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  truly understand. Yeah, that's a really good
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  question. It's and that's a really good
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  point. I think even to this day, I'd
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  say 95% of people still think of LinkedIn as a digital copy of
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  your resume. Right around like 2018 nineteen.
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  That's when it did start to shift a little bit more where
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  like people, you know, creators came about.
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  I think it was 20/20/2020 that the creator mode even became a
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  thing where you could like follow instead of just connect
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  with. And, and so I think around that
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  time too, because of COVID and a lot of people not going to
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  events anymore, right? It's shifted into turning into
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  this never ending borderless digital conference service on to
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  connect. And I'd say like the other 4% of
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  people think of it that way. The thing that I realized and I
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  used to believe, look at it that way as well.
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  But what I noticed last year, probably at some point where
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  like a lot of people are really bad at networking, it turns out
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  like there's always this like ulterior motive.
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  They're trying to get something out of you.
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  Like they're trying to be your friend, but they obviously want
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  to pitch you. Like, we're all, I mean, yes, we
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  are all there to sell something typically, right?
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  But people just go about it really wrong.
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  And that's where the pitch stops.
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  And it's like you, if you look in your inbox, it's probably
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  full of people just going straight in for the pitch and
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  they haven't even built any or established any credibility
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  relationship with you, right? The other 1% are even less than
• 18:43
  that because most people still really are just not using
• 18:45
  LinkedIn very well. This is the mindset that I've
• 18:48
  been approaching more recently and I talk about a lot with my
• 18:51
  clients is this idea of an office mindset.
• 18:54
  So you want to think about LinkedIn as your office and your
• 18:59
  network as your colleagues, right?
• 19:01
  So instead of asking what can I get from you, you're asking how
• 19:04
  can I support you? How can we grow together?
• 19:07
  And when you approach it this way, that's how you actually
• 19:11
  bring in new opportunities because it's all established
• 19:14
  with trust and building real relationships, right?
• 19:18
  You're not trying to get something out of them.
• 19:19
  There's no ulterior motive. And when you do it this way,
• 19:22
  when it's genuine, when you're really trying to support one
• 19:25
  another, that's when I feel like most opportunities come from,
• 19:29
  you know? So this, this, this message that
• 19:33
  I have actually I just got this morning.
• 19:35
  It was like, I'll keep it short. If I could put your team in
• 19:38
  front of actionable sales opportunities ahead of your
• 19:40
  competitors, would you be open to seeing how so is that?
• 19:43
  Is that what we're talking about?
• 19:44
  The pitch slap? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:46
  Interesting because I get them regularly, right?
• 19:49
  It's it's very interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:53
  But if I go that was so crazy. And it's still going on right
• 19:55
  now. This guy, he's he connected with
• 19:57
  me and I, I haven't blocked him because I'm just curious like
• 20:01
  what his next message will because I'm in some sort of, you
• 20:04
  know, sequence of his. He's like, I promise I'm not
• 20:06
  going to sell you, by the way, check out my thing.
• 20:08
  And he's like, hey. You know, did you check out my
• 20:11
  thing yet? And then just checking up one
• 20:15
  more time to see if this got lost in the void.
• 20:17
  I'm like, dude, what are you doing?
• 20:18
  Like you're literally selling me this entire time.
• 20:21
  Yeah, you said something a couple of minutes ago.
• 20:25
  You said genuine and that whole being genuine in the connection
• 20:30
  point and your whole, I don't want to say, I don't want to say
• 20:33
  your whole thing, but the big thing I took, I'm seeing I'm
• 20:36
  learning from you. Is that real, like having a real
• 20:38
  relationship with somebody? More and more in the past two
• 20:43
  weeks, I've seen Claude has taken over my LinkedIn outreach.
• 20:50
  I don't. I'm using here are the prompts
• 20:53
  that have been able to do this with that context.
• 20:58
  We're seeing this shift of let's just start to, I don't know,
• 21:00
  let's say spam, because this, the use of AI technology is very
• 21:03
  much real and people are getting flooded with messages.
• 21:07
  I'll say that way, yeah, how do you how do you attach yourself
• 21:12
  to some of those conversations? Say, look, the AI is great, but
• 21:18
  in in context, but how do you, how do you start to segment or
• 21:22
  start to maybe guide somebody to say, here's how to really make a
• 21:26
  connection on LinkedIn versus just use these prompts that
• 21:31
  you've probably seen on LinkedIn And people are going to say
• 21:33
  comment and then they'll send you the prompts and you'll get
• 21:35
  the prompts. And then you'll have to do the
• 21:37
  thing like, where's the where's the fine line between automation
• 21:41
  and relationships? Yeah, listen, don't get me
• 21:45
  wrong, I use AI all the time. I couldn't do my business
• 21:48
  without it now, right? But I always start with my
• 21:52
  original thought and I use that as my starting point, right?
• 21:59
  And then have AI help me make me sound smarter, basically because
• 22:03
  I'm not a writer, right? That's why I kind of leave with
• 22:05
  this whole thing of like, I'm not a content creator.
• 22:07
  That's like the strangest thing. I mean, yes, I guess technically
• 22:09
  I am, but most of us aren't. Writing is not our expertise,
• 22:13
  but we're doing really cool shit, so why don't we use AI to
• 22:17
  help us tell about the cool shit we're doing?
• 22:20
  You know what I mean? So I think that's where people
• 22:23
  get wrong is they just go into AI and say, hey, write me a blog
• 22:25
  on this or write me a post on this.
• 22:27
  And then they're pulling the average from the Internet,
• 22:29
  right? Because that's what it gives
• 22:31
  you. And then you just sound like
• 22:33
  everybody else. It's that AI stop that we're
• 22:34
  seeing everywhere. It's not original and anybody
• 22:37
  can do it, right? And so question a filter, I
• 22:39
  always ask before I post anything is, could AI have
• 22:43
  written this? Because if that means yes, that
• 22:46
  means my competitor could have and it also means my 7 year old
• 22:48
  nephew could have, right? And So what you want to do is
• 22:51
  actually just pull from your real lived experience, which is
• 22:54
  what people crave right now. Because we're in this trust
• 22:57
  recession, right? Nobody knows what's real
• 22:58
  anymore. We've all been burned, you know,
• 23:02
  like there's everyone's full of craft.
• 23:04
  Like it's, it's so it's so hard to know what's real or not
• 23:06
  because of AI, because of all the automation stuff.
• 23:09
  I literally saw a video with Elvis, like modern day Elvis in
• 23:13
  real life. I was like, this is this is
• 23:14
  crazy. It looked so real, right?
• 23:16
  So our guards are up. But what what differentiates you
• 23:21
  and how you can stand out is by being you, right?
• 23:24
  Talking about what you did yesterday, who, who you helped,
• 23:27
  the problems you solved. Like those things turn those
• 23:29
  into posts. That's not something AI can come
• 23:31
  up with. OK, I hear you.
• 23:35
  Now here's where my curiosity goes.
• 23:38
  I start to make some posts. I start to reach out to people.
• 23:43
  How do I know that I'm doing the right things?
• 23:45
  Or maybe I should ask how much is too much?
• 23:51
  The goal of being on LinkedIn, in my opinion, is to increase
• 23:56
  the quality of conversations you're having.
• 23:58
  So if you are having better conversations every week or more
• 24:03
  of them, I'd say you're doing the right things.
• 24:06
  If you're not, if it's not leading to conversations, like
• 24:10
  if, if the content you're putting out and the DMS you're
• 24:13
  sending aren't leading to conversations and you're doing
• 24:15
  it wrong, you, you may be in the category of pitch slapping or
• 24:19
  forgetting that there is a human on the other side of the screen,
• 24:21
  right. So I think that that's like a, a
• 24:25
  metric like I, I, I try not to focus too much on the vanity
• 24:30
  metrics of impressions and likes and comments.
• 24:33
  Like, yes, you want to get level of engagement.
• 24:34
  There's no doubt about that, but it doesn't.
• 24:37
  Likes don't equate to money at all on LinkedIn, right?
• 24:41
  It really is about having really good conversations behind the
• 24:44
  scenes and the relationships you build off the platform.
• 24:47
  That's why I keep saying like I'm on LinkedIn, to get off of
• 24:49
  LinkedIn. Like I would honestly would
• 24:50
  rather not be out there, but it's the necessary sort of evil.
• 24:54
  And not that I think content's evil at all, but it's the
• 24:56
  necessary way to have good conversations.
• 24:59
  And I keep at it because of all the amazing opportunities that
• 25:02
  arise from being on LinkedIn. Which is, which is great.
• 25:06
  So as you, as you kind of shifted into the experience of
• 25:11
  now I'm starting to do to learn about LinkedIn.
• 25:15
  Did you set yourself a goal of like, I'm going to send 10 DMSA
• 25:19
  day, I'm going to connect with 10 people a day.
• 25:22
  I'm going to write 1 post like did did you have to figure out
• 25:25
  how did you figure out your formula?
• 25:27
  I guess is the best way to say it.
• 25:28
  Yeah, my formula today is always too much different than what it
• 25:34
  was when I was in SDR. And this was my job where I was like all
• 25:37
  day doing stuff on there and sending DMS like as much as I
• 25:40
  could pretty much now, you know, and when people ask me like, how
• 25:46
  often should I be posting, I, my answer is whatever you can do
• 25:51
  consistently indefinitely, right?
• 25:53
  Like it is a big part of about what we're doing here is, is
• 25:56
  being consistent with it. So like, if you were to show up
• 25:59
  for three weeks hard and then disappear for a few months,
• 26:02
  that's not going to help you. Like I'd rather you do one day a
• 26:04
  week where you're posting and then, you know, the other days
• 26:07
  you're doing some level of engagement.
• 26:08
  And so it's really how much time are you able to commit to this?
• 26:12
  And if it's around, you know, 30 minutes, 45 minutes a day, well,
• 26:17
  maybe that means posting only twice a week.
• 26:20
  And that means those other days you're starting new
• 26:22
  conversations. So sending 5 DMS, commenting on
• 26:25
  five different posts, right? Doing some mix of that, but
• 26:30
  because one thing that's great, I, I don't know, I'm one of
• 26:32
  those people that love this on LinkedIn posts live longer than
• 26:35
  they do on Meta, for example, where on Instagram a post dies
• 26:38
  after 24 hours on it. On LinkedIn though, I got
• 26:41
  somebody like a post of mine from 4 weeks ago, right?
• 26:43
  Like it's still showing up. So you you will still be top of
• 26:47
  mind if you're only creating content one or two times a week.
• 26:52
  OK, it's which is great to know 'cause like I'll, I'll use my
• 26:55
  own experience and maybe this is a good way of asking the
• 26:58
  question. So my own experience is this
• 27:01
  with the podcast. I've learned a lot.
• 27:04
  I've learned a lot, right? Using like some of the two like
• 27:09
  Opus clips is a great example. So I take it and I chop it up
• 27:11
  and you know, etcetera. And so as I post it, I did get
• 27:16
  flagged by LinkedIn saying, Hey, we see automation they flagged
• 27:19
  me on. I was like, hold on a second.
• 27:21
  This is what it said. And they're like, OK, as long as
• 27:24
  you're as long as it's not just a blatant and you're actually
• 27:27
  reviewing it. I'm like, yes, this is me, like
• 27:28
  actually doing the thing. So there's this whole I'm
• 27:32
  curious on how the automation and all the stuff that I just
• 27:34
  asked about Claude and and ChatGPT of like automating and
• 27:38
  agents just running your whole LinkedIn.
• 27:40
  But anyway, so there's that. But for me personally, like I'm
• 27:42
  posting five times a week, I post a video, I post a clip from
• 27:47
  the podcast and then I I post the full thing and it's a lot of
• 27:52
  work. Like I will tell you, it's a lot
• 27:54
  of work. And then you have to like trying
• 27:56
  to figure out, like you said earlier, you used to be able to
• 27:59
  follow hashtags. Now you can't.
• 28:00
  Are hashtags a good thing to use today or are they not a good
• 28:03
  thing? There's differencing opinions
• 28:05
  and like trying to figure out what the right rhythm is and you
• 28:10
  know, do I post before 10:00? Do I post after 10:00?
• 28:14
  I should I only post once a day? Should I post multiple times?
• 28:16
  Like it's a little bit, I don't want to say overwhelming, but
• 28:20
  it's confusing. I'll say it that way.
• 28:22
  It's very confusing and what I should do.
• 28:24
  So as you're like talking to people, like what do you advise
• 28:27
  them to do if they are wanting to use LinkedIn as a demand Gen.
• 28:32
  opportunity? Do you say post once a week,
• 28:34
  twice a week? Do you say, hey, look, you
• 28:36
  should spend a certain amount of time like what's the formula for
• 28:39
  somebody to eat listening this good?
• 28:40
  Just trying to like wrap their head around I want to use this
• 28:43
  as a way to build my business but I don't even know where to
• 28:46
  start. Yeah, it's tough because there
• 28:49
  is so much conflicting stuff out there.
• 28:51
  And then when you think you figured it out, they drop a new
• 28:54
  algorithm 360 through, right, which is like what they've been
• 28:57
  rolling out over the last year and a half, which is what's
• 28:59
  changed everything so much. Anyways.
• 29:01
  So I always say to you, because they're best practices and I put
• 29:04
  it in quotations because we're writing the playbook right now,
• 29:09
  like this is all brand new way of doing things.
• 29:11
  And it is, it's frustrating and it's overwhelming.
• 29:16
  There's all, all the, the, it's tough.
• 29:18
  There's no question about that. But that's why I approach it in
• 29:21
  this way of like focusing on things that you can control
• 29:24
  because most people who go on LinkedIn and most of the advice
• 29:27
  that's out there are is for content creators, for
• 29:30
  influencers, right? Create posts that go viral, go,
• 29:33
  you know, chase the algorithm. So you get the likes, the
• 29:35
  impressions, all that stuff that's going to drive you nuts
• 29:37
  because you can't control that, right?
• 29:39
  And as soon as you think you figure it out, then they change
• 29:41
  it. And so instead focusing on being
• 29:44
  leaders, executives, sales professionals who are leveraging
• 29:48
  content to grow your business, hit your quota, whatever.
• 29:51
  The thing is, it's a very different mindset and approach
• 29:54
  where you're focusing on building relationships.
• 29:55
  That's why I focus like I sort of reiterate that so much is
• 29:59
  that when you're trying to actually genuinely connect with
• 30:03
  people, you're going to see way more results from that.
• 30:06
  And it's something you actually can control, right?
• 30:09
  You're not at the whim of the algorithm.
• 30:11
  So for me, this last year and a half, when things have changed
• 30:13
  so much in the platform, I haven't even noticed.
• 30:16
  I, I don't, I, if my reach has gone down, I wouldn't know
• 30:19
  because my business is better than it's ever been.
• 30:20
  And it's because I focus on having real interactions with
• 30:26
  people. I know that sounds really,
• 30:28
  really simple, but it it, it kind of is, you know?
• 30:35
  Say simple is very hard, yeah. And I I do find that is like
• 30:40
  trying to simplify this for myself.
• 30:42
  I find it very hard. Maybe I, I don't know if I asked
• 30:48
  this in a way that I probably should, but what is it about
• 30:55
  LinkedIn that people get so wrong?
• 30:56
  Like what is it about that? Like what I'm, what are we
• 30:58
  getting wrong that we should be trying to change?
• 31:01
  Like is it, is it around the, the pitch slapping?
• 31:04
  Is it the messaging? Is it the like cadence?
• 31:07
  Like what is it that you would advise to give somebody a piece,
• 31:10
  one piece of advice, say here's how to use it strategically,
• 31:14
  that you're actually probably overlooking I.
• 31:19
  I mean, remembering that there's a human on the other side of the
• 31:21
  screen. We've spent years before AI
• 31:25
  even, right? We've spent years to shortcut
• 31:27
  building relationships like all these SAS tools out there to
• 31:30
  better the salesperson turns out don't help the buyer at all.
• 31:35
  It just distanced us even further.
• 31:37
  So we just we automated sniff. So even again, before AI, like
• 31:40
  there a lot of people are using these automations in the DMS
• 31:43
  that just put you in these sequences and like it, it just
• 31:46
  spammed everybody. That's why people, I know people
• 31:49
  who won't even look in their inbox anymore because it's just
• 31:50
  full of pitch slaps, right? The crap messages.
• 31:55
  And so it goes really, really long way if you show a little
• 31:59
  bit of curiosity and interest in somebody and remember like
• 32:02
  that's a person that you're talking to something so simple
• 32:06
  on their profile that you can mention like, hey, by the way, I
• 32:08
  saw that you did this or saw your part of this.
• 32:11
  And I don't mean just like the simple, Oh, you went to the same
• 32:12
  school and then and like being. So that's actually, I think not
• 32:18
  the end of the world. It's when people say, Oh, it
• 32:21
  looks like you went to this school and then connect it to
• 32:24
  something that's not relevant at all.
• 32:27
  You know what I mean? Like they like say it, they're
• 32:28
  like trying to pull something that again, is automated that
• 32:31
  just pulled something from their profile and they're trying to
• 32:34
  connect it in, but it's not relevant.
• 32:35
  And it's just kind of creepy sometimes, you know, if you
• 32:38
  literally just spend a little bit of time, it's, it goes a
• 32:42
  long way. And most people just don't do
• 32:44
  that. They're lazy.
• 32:46
  Great point of the question is how much personalization?
• 32:49
  Should I make it 100% personalized?
• 32:52
  Should I make it 50% personalized?
• 32:55
  What's the what? What do you advise people on on
• 32:58
  the personalization side of things for building these real
• 33:01
  relationships? Relevancy is better than
• 33:05
  personalization. In a lot of cases, relevancy is.
• 33:10
  Better than personalization? Like you could personalize
• 33:13
  something, but it if it's not relevant to anything else, like
• 33:16
  what, why? Why are you saying it
• 33:19
  necessarily? Like it could just be kind of
• 33:21
  weird. Some people are just like, you
• 33:23
  just dive too deep into the personalization and then it's
• 33:25
  like, OK, you didn't need to. It doesn't, that doesn't help me
• 33:28
  like and it doesn't connect to like, why are you even reaching
• 33:30
  out to me? You know what I mean?
• 33:32
  I like that relevancy is better than personalization because
• 33:35
  there's actually, there's a gentleman, John Barrows, he's
• 33:39
  actually been on the podcast. I've trained under John, but one
• 33:41
  of the things that he taught us at Salesforce was why you, why
• 33:44
  now, why us? Why should you be listening to
• 33:46
  me? Why should you be talking now?
• 33:48
  And why, why us? Like, why should you even be
• 33:51
  considering like what's going on right now?
• 33:53
  This is the thing, why you, why now and why us?
• 33:57
  And if you structure it that way, it helps.
• 34:00
  And that also became it was the basho method.
• 34:02
  And actually we as a team at Salesforce, we had a quote every
• 34:06
  week. We said you have to send 20
• 34:08
  bashos a week. And at the beginning writing
• 34:11
  those like, it's because like you said, it's like the the
• 34:14
  genuine connection and it's trying to create a relationship.
• 34:18
  But when you start to sit down and go, OK, and at the time we
• 34:21
  didn't have AI. So going through and trying to
• 34:24
  write those basho emails, the first time I did, I think it
• 34:26
  took me an hour to write something like it was, it was
• 34:29
  like, OK, what is it? And I want to talk about, OK,
• 34:32
  what's going on with them? And I'm trying to find something
• 34:34
  like you said, I don't want to, I don't want to prospect into
• 34:37
  something be like, Oh, I saw you went to this university and you
• 34:40
  were on on you were part of this fraternity or as an example.
• 34:45
  Oh, I bet your crazy story like I didn't want to do that.
• 34:47
  But it's more of like, Hey, my best friend is also, I don't
• 34:50
  know if this is a thing, but my best friend is now the, the
• 34:53
  president of, of that fraternity at this school and suggested
• 34:58
  that I connect with you because your relationship and he was, I
• 35:00
  don't know, I'm just making something up as we go.
• 35:03
  But there has to be a depth of personalization, depth of
• 35:06
  relevancy and also the personalization.
• 35:09
  So the, how far would you say is it like do you give anybody sort
• 35:13
  of guide guidance on, Hey, take it the relevancy to about this,
• 35:18
  the personalization? Like is there a?
• 35:20
  Is there a happy medium? Well, that's a really great
• 35:25
  question. I guess I mean, I think brevity
• 35:28
  is also important, right? We don't want long messages like
• 35:32
  they're always thinking like, what's in it for me, right?
• 35:34
  And if you're going on about something else like it that's
• 35:37
  not, people don't have time for that.
• 35:39
  So like what is going to be the thing that's going to get them
• 35:41
  to actually respond or even even read the whole thing?
• 35:46
  It's going to be something that's relevant to them.
• 35:50
  So I would focus more on it being relevant than
• 35:52
  personalized. I mean, in in in context is
• 35:55
  everything too. Like, you know, I'll give you an
• 35:57
  example. I reach out to people who view
• 36:02
  my profile, right? It's a signal of intent because
• 36:05
  there's kind of like a little quiet hello.
• 36:06
  So when I see somebody who's viewed my profile, I'm going to
• 36:09
  go say, hey, thanks for checking out my profile.
• 36:11
  Anything in particular stand out or just the usual LinkedIn dance
• 36:14
  magic? That's like my go to.
• 36:15
  Then I do APS and I do something custom there that is specific to
• 36:24
  either their most recent post, something on their profile,
• 36:26
  something that like some sort of ice breaking content that like
• 36:29
  shows that I actually did check out their profile as well that I
• 36:32
  looked at this or whatever it is.
• 36:34
  So an example I did today, somebody check out my profile
• 36:38
  and I did PS your rebrand looks amazing.
• 36:40
  And I saw that because a few posts earlier she talked about
• 36:43
  how she just went through a rebrand.
• 36:44
  And so I checked out her website and looked at her rebrand and it
• 36:47
  was beautiful. And so I kind of commented on
• 36:49
  that, right? But most people don't take that
• 36:51
  extra step to actually go look. They just send some generic
• 36:54
  message or you know, whatever The thing is and and and we just
• 36:58
  scroll right past it. I think what you just said there
• 37:01
  was really cool and it's it's something to not overlook.
• 37:03
  It's that intent. And I think you said it's the
• 37:05
  passive. How'd you say it?
• 37:06
  The passive? Hello.
• 37:08
  A quiet hello. I like, I like to think of like,
• 37:11
  like imagine like a neighbor waving from behind the fence or
• 37:14
  something. You know, like that's what I
• 37:17
  think of when I see profile views or.
• 37:19
  Yeah, I like that. And so that's a point.
• 37:22
  Like you said, it's the intent data.
• 37:23
  Because now more and more we're hearing the question of like, I
• 37:26
  need to have intent data, I need to see the signal.
• 37:29
  And again, with the world of AI, how often do we think, like you
• 37:33
  said, our guards, you said it earlier on is like our guards
• 37:36
  are up. We are in a, a trust.
• 37:40
  How did you say it? We were a trust recession,
• 37:43
  right? Like, and it's true 'cause you
• 37:45
  look at a OK, is that actually real or is it clickbait?
• 37:49
  And so making that real connection and bringing it back
• 37:51
  to something it, it, it's really interesting to see.
• 37:54
  And it's great to hear that you're advising on that because
• 37:59
  we get so many messages on a day-to-day and I'm sure you get
• 38:02
  more than enough. So having that as a, as a
• 38:05
  starting point. And so maybe that that's a clue.
• 38:07
  I would say as I'm hearing it and I'm taking one of the things
• 38:09
  that I wrote down is like when somebody gives me a quiet hello,
• 38:14
  just send them a quick message. Most people don't do that and
• 38:17
  people love talking. It's just we're all so
• 38:20
  uncomfortable on LinkedIn, like we're super awkward.
• 38:22
  Everybody is right. And imagine people who aren't
• 38:24
  creating content, but they want to hear from you, so give them
• 38:27
  the opportunity. So initiating that conversation
• 38:30
  is really important. So that's why I'm always like
• 38:32
  the system I teach my clients to do is, is build a, build the
• 38:38
  system so that we're looking out for all those signals of intent
• 38:42
  and initiate those conversations because nobody's going to say hi
• 38:45
  to you. Like you're not all of a sudden
• 38:46
  going to get these inbounds flooded your way.
• 38:49
  Like that just doesn't exist anymore.
• 38:51
  You have to start that conversation and then people
• 38:53
  will open up if you do all the things right.
• 38:57
  And I think you, I like how you said that because most people do
• 39:00
  treat LinkedIn like a content platform.
• 39:02
  And you like, as I've learned about today, you're treating it
• 39:06
  as a relationship engine. And you said, let's get off
• 39:09
  LinkedIn. What do you, what would you say
• 39:12
  is the mindset shift for revenue leaders that they need to make
• 39:16
  if they want to actually have LinkedIn, Dr. Pipeline?
• 39:23
  Well, a big part of it might be like actually going in and, and,
• 39:28
  and showing up on there. I think especially sales
• 39:33
  professionals, a lot of them that I work with are really good
• 39:36
  at the DMS, but they aren't doing anything with their
• 39:40
  profiles or personal brands, right?
• 39:42
  And content, they don't do any of that stuff.
• 39:43
  And so that's why the spamming kind of comes into play.
• 39:47
  It's like you have to actually show up as a human.
• 39:49
  It can't be outsourced, at least to start.
• 39:52
  You can't be doing that. And I mean, CE OS, it's a little
• 39:54
  bit different. You kind of have your team to
• 39:55
  support you with this, but it's showing up authentically as you
• 39:59
  and I, I hate to use the word authentic because I feel like
• 40:02
  that's lost its meaning as well. That's why I'm like, just be
• 40:03
  real on there. Talk about the things that is
• 40:07
  going on in the day-to-day. Most people just don't do that,
• 40:10
  right? There's 1.2 billion people on
• 40:11
  LinkedIn. Only 1% of people are posting
• 40:14
  any original content. 1.2 billion people on LinkedIn and
• 40:19
  less than 1% of people are posting real original.
• 40:22
  Content some people are there's more people who are reposting
• 40:25
  and sharing stuff that like companies forcing them to post,
• 40:27
  for example, but nobody, so few people are creating real
• 40:32
  creating content and the opportunity for you to stand out
• 40:36
  and become the go to expert, the Category 1 brand.
• 40:39
  It's so real. You just have to do it.
• 40:41
  Most people just won't do it. They're too uncomfortable.
• 40:44
  They put it in their back burner or whatever The thing is like
• 40:47
  they just you keep putting it off but or trying to shortcut it
• 40:51
  and then it doesn't work. Yeah, the shortcutting side of
• 40:56
  thing, and that's been the AI side of thing.
• 40:58
  Like going back earlier, they actually Neil Weitzman, who I
• 41:01
  had on the podcast recently, he was, I saw him post something
• 41:04
  like, hey, thanks for stealing my post.
• 41:07
  You could have at least given me and acknowledged like it's
• 41:09
  quite, it was quite literally I just copy paste in my own thing
• 41:12
  and carry on. You see that starting to happen
• 41:15
  regularly. I see we're at the 40 minute
• 41:18
  mark. Natasha, I'm sorry, this is kind
• 41:20
  of gone probably longer than I think you anticipate.
• 41:22
  I'm just, I'm genuinely curious about this because there are all
• 41:26
  of this there. There are a lot of people
• 41:29
  talking about LinkedIn and there's the, you know, I
• 41:32
  remember the day when LinkedIn came out, I was like, oh, I'm a
• 41:35
  social selling expert and I'm like, how are you an expert?
• 41:39
  It just showed up like a week ago.
• 41:41
  Like, how are you getting this? But we've seen the shift and
• 41:44
  people talking about LinkedIn and using it as a demand.
• 41:46
  But there's also this other side of it where people trying to
• 41:50
  automate things just to automate things.
• 41:53
  And like you said, like the genuineness or the relationship
• 41:58
  is, is missing. So using those to your advantage
• 42:03
  will help you down the line and build the right type.
• 42:06
  I think maybe that's, that's the question that we is the
• 42:08
  underlying thing. It's trying to build the right
• 42:10
  kind of pipeline. So I, I to get you out of here
• 42:16
  and not spend more of your day. I like to, I like to say this
• 42:21
  and I like to ask people at the like everybody likes new and
• 42:24
  nobody likes different. But when you do both at the same
• 42:27
  time, it can either cause friction or uncertainty.
• 42:29
  So for somebody thinking about leveling up, how they can use
• 42:32
  LinkedIn for their own funnel build, what are two or three
• 42:36
  actionable things that you would say do this Monday morning to
• 42:41
  put you on a path for success? That's a really great question,
• 42:46
  something I didn't realize was so important until probably a
• 42:50
  year into my business. And that's actually why I
• 42:52
  switched. I used to be just a coach and
• 42:55
  now I'm I'm kind of an agency disguised as a coach now because
• 42:58
  there's a lot of done for you stuff that I do.
• 42:59
  But because it's so important to have your profile optimized and
• 43:06
  something that you're proud of. If you don't feel good about how
• 43:10
  your profile looks, if it doesn't represent who you are
• 43:13
  today, your values, what, what it is you do, it's very clear
• 43:16
  all the things, it's going to be very hard to create content and
• 43:20
  have conversations because you're not going to feel
• 43:22
  comfortable. So going to your profile, does
• 43:27
  your headline say what you do and not just your title?
• 43:29
  Like what is how do you help people right?
• 43:32
  Put that front and center. What do you want to be known
• 43:34
  for? Put that front and center right
• 43:35
  there. Your bout section, that's an
• 43:40
  easy one too. It's counterintuitive, but your
• 43:43
  bout section's not actually about you, right?
• 43:44
  People are going to your profile thinking, what's in it for me?
• 43:48
  So your bout section should be talking to your ideal clients,
• 43:52
  prospects, right? Speak directly to their pain
• 43:54
  points, tying your credibility and your story behind it, but
• 43:58
  speak directly to them so that they are more curious to learn
• 44:00
  more from you. I kind of can just go on
• 44:04
  tangents on this, sorry, but basically, yeah, headline update
• 44:08
  that make it feel like something that you know that you're proud
• 44:10
  of. It shouldn't be this buttoned up
• 44:12
  corporate version of you. It should be you.
• 44:14
  I should be able to hear you when I go to your profile.
• 44:17
  Most people don't do that at all.
• 44:21
  I like that hear you. My dad, my dad is was in
• 44:26
  business for well for his whole career and he was in HR, but I
• 44:31
  remember him telling me early and he goes, look, you need to
• 44:34
  be you. You can be you in the locker
• 44:38
  room is you, but you can be you in the boardroom, same person,
• 44:42
  but your language needs to be cleaned up.
• 44:45
  But you need to be you. There's only you.
• 44:46
  So as you said, I, I, I like you say that, but it brought me back
• 44:49
  to what my dad talked to me about.
• 44:50
  So cool. So I know we got to get wrapped
• 44:54
  up here. Natasha, if somebody wants to
• 44:56
  talk to you a little bit more, they want to learn.
• 44:58
  Where do you suggest that they go?
• 45:00
  I have a feeling I know the answer.
• 45:02
  I know right? I, I wish I had something else,
• 45:04
  but LinkedIn, please come check me out.
• 45:08
  I, yeah, and connect. I, I go on lots of LinkedIn
• 45:12
  tangents. I really enjoy talking about
• 45:14
  this. I clearly, if you couldn't tell,
• 45:16
  just I live and breathe this, which is crazy 'cause I don't
• 45:19
  use social media in my personal life, right?
• 45:21
  Like how? How wild is that?
• 45:23
  Oh, wow, yeah, that's interesting.
• 45:24
  But I guess it's a it's a business, so let's get you out
• 45:29
  of here. This has been a lot of fun.
• 45:31
  I've got a I've got an entire page of notes since we've gone.
• 45:36
  If you're, if you're thinking about LinkedIn for your own
• 45:38
  business, like check out what Natasha was saying.
• 45:41
  And you know, I was trying to get some secrets from her today.
• 45:44
  She gave us some Nuggets, but not none of the secrets.
• 45:47
  So I think you got to connect with her to get the secrets.
• 45:49
  But I appreciate you doing this very much and, and, and, and
• 45:52
  chatting us through this with today's Natasha.
• 45:55
  Thanks Carl. Awesome being here.
• 45:57
  Awesome, so that's going to wrap up another episode of Revenue
• 45:59
  Problem Solvers. Obviously, want to thank Natasha
• 46:01
  for sharing these incredibly invaluable insights today.
• 46:04
  As you heard, there's some strategy you can put into action
• 46:06
  tomorrow. Remember, success leaves clues
• 46:08
  in. Every revenue problem has a
• 46:10
  solution. Sometimes you just need the
• 46:12
  right conversation to find it. Until next time, it's Carl with
• 46:15
  the Revenue Problem Solvers helping you turn your obstacles
• 46:17
  into opportunities. Thank you for investing your
• 46:20
  time with us today, and we'll see you in the next episode.