Latest / Comms Coach Podcast / Season 4 Episode 1: Developing the Whole 9-1-1 Professional with Matthew Harwell

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Season 4 Episode 1: Developing the Whole 9-1-1 Professional with Matthew Harwell · Comms Coach Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is Comms Coach, the podcast that delves deep into the world of 911 emergency communications.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: From answering emergency calls to preparing the next generation of 911 professionals, your host, Lori Henrikson, has dedicated nearly four decades to public safety communications.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: She has served as a call taker, dispatcher, trainer, and educator, and established one of the nation's first high school emergency telecommunications programs.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now please welcome Lori Henrikson.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Clums Coach Podcast, where we talk with the people who are helping move the 911 profession forward through education, leadership, and real-world experience.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Lori Henriksen.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're talking about what it means to develop the whole 911 professional.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: We spend a great deal of time teaching policies, procedures, technology, and operational skills as we should, but people also need purpose, connection, opportunities to grow, and leaders who recognize that every employee enters this profession with a different story.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today is Matthew Harwell.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've had the opportunity to work with Matt on projects and committees, and I've also enjoyed several of his presentations at conferences across the country.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: I am definitely a fan of his work, and I deeply respect his commitment to this career and to the 911 community.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Matt, welcome to Comms Coach Podcast, and I'm so glad to have you with us today.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Lori.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm super excited to be here as well and just share a little bit about uh what I love so much about this profession.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: This is going to be a good uh discussion today.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I always like to begin by learning more about the person behind the work.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Would you tell us about your journey and the experiences that led you to 911 leadership, education, and your interest in organizational performance and change?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so uh I in no way, shape, or form was I a person who woke up and thought, I want to work in public safety telecommunications 911.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, I don't know of very many people do wake up that way.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I love to talk in sessions, and even I was more recently in in Kansas and just the recognition of we hear those stories about people waking up and saying, I want to be a firefighter, I want to be a police officer, I want to be a paramedic.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: But uh it's few and far between, I think that I've heard someone say I want to wake up and work in 911.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: However, though, when I was in Kansas, they did recently have a pub ed event where they had like multiple kiddos who that was kind of their track.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: For me, though, I know I was impressed.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: For me, um I, yeah, no, I kind of fell into it to a degree.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: I had done law enforcement explorers through high school, deeply valued the role of public safety telecommunicators where I grew up in Missouri, um, and then shifted from that into going to college and working in a different industry and field for a little bit, but doing education, uh, my undergrad was in psychology, but education and some other um just developmental type stuff.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so I've always kind of had a passion for education and the whole person and really like systems as a whole, looking at the big picture and organizations and what that looks like.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: I made a career change and I actually applied for several different open positions at the sheriff's office where I started my 911 career in Colorado.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And the hiring track that worked the quickest was for the communication center.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where I landed, and I am so eternally grateful for that opportunity.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think to a high level, that's kind of what led me there was just um circumstance, but the opportunity to walk into a place uh and be challenged early on.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's why I'm so passionate about a portion of this too, is uh I was one, I had I had written my resignation letter during training.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't was was missing those things, felt like maybe I had overspent uh what I was able to do and that this wasn't I I wasn't cut out for the job.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: And uh my director at the time took, we met for coffee, and then she just basically didn't really accept that resignation letter and said, let's try a few more things.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think for me, that is truly the heart of what um some of this when it comes to leadership and education and really caring about the whole professional is yes, as you said in the opening, it is so many of those task-oriented aspects that are vitally important to our industry, but they're not what solely define who's gonna succeed, who's gonna be um successful, and maybe really what we want to fully develop as that whole um professional in public safety telecommunications.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: For me, my background uh in education as a whole kind of inspired me.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think early on through college, I did psychology, I had some quite a few classes in education, training, some of that stuff.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, some of my work and my master's degrees have also been in that same realm, um, even so far as one of them's in gerontology and aging studies.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: So looking at what does it look like when people are maybe at the other end of their spectrum when I was in college, um, and now focusing on in a doctoral program, organizational performance and change.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, the opportunity is really looking at three Ps in emergency communications as a whole passion, performance, and productivity.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think as I've time, as I've found time and time again, so much of that is that whole person is vitally important.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's hard to say that we've got maybe the best team members or that they are at their best if we don't care about the person in a holistic manner.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, that's really what led me there.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's what has has encouraged those interests for me.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's why I feel so passionate about things like people understanding their whys and people really recognizing that even from the day you start, you're building a legacy in the industry that you're gonna leave it in a better place.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love Brene Brown, Simon Sinek, some of those people, Simon, especially talking about the infinite game.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think so much in public safety, we look at it in a very finite manner and he he really breaks that mold and has helped me understand that and make me want to share that with others.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, what it comes down to is we are in an industry, we are in a time where literally day to day there's just massive amounts of change, and it feels like a wave at times that we're riding.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so recognizing you can really learn to ride that wave and do it well, or you can be swept away by that wave.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I think when we focus on the person as a whole, um, we start to see more and more people riding that wave in a really, really amazing way.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just loved every single thing you said.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just sitting here in awe, as normal or as usual.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you brought up so many good points, and that's the thing.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you kind of answered this in a way, but when you hear the phrase developing the whole 911 professional, what does that really mean to you?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And what do we need to develop beyond technical knowledge and operational skill?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I know you've answered some of that, but can you expand a little bit?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: I I mean, I think when we think about the whole 911 professional, we have to truly, no different than so much of the rest of the world, is looking at more holistic approaches to everything.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think we have to get ultra philosophical or go on these deep dive um journeys to maybe make sense of what this means, but I think it's recognizing that um so many of the old approaches to training in 911 that didn't work.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: For instance, I think about even still today, the number of people I work with with the team I'm fortunate to work with is hearing the stories of the professionals that I see on a daily basis that when they were going through training, people weren't even going to learn their name until they passed training.
• 7:58
  unknown: Yep.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I think historically, right, it was we would eat our own young.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and then even now, like you can jump on any social media platform and there's the joking, you know, the joking image of like the older bird kicking the fledgling out of the nest and like just learn to fly, as if just throwing someone in a really horrible situation um is going to build, you know, the ability to do something.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: And don't get me wrong, there's absolutely space for being put in some of those stressful situations and kind of a trial by fire where someone comes out even better the other side.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I think the whole professional is looking at truly, you do have those technical and operational needs.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Those are kind of like the non-negotiables to a degree.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I think we want to continue pushing the envelope to say further, the non-negotiable is that that person doesn't show up to work in a silo, first and foremost, right?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: One of the biggest realities, when we talk about the whole 911 professionalist, we have to recognize that they exist in a team.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many organizations and initiatives and movements that are surrounded in the negativity or the negative things that happen in this industry when we don't recognize that we have to rely on one another.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think even realistically speaking, right, there's so many ECCs across the country where there may be one person on shift at a time, but they're not doing it alone.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think recognizing both both sides of the radio, both sides of a of uh, you know, the CAD system, um, but even the people you overlap with, the people that support you in your industry, that's what makes it up is so much about that team.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think beyond that, no one comes to work.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think it's always been a misnomer of like, even recently, someone I was talking to uh that they had kind of been interested, but they said, I just don't really think I could do it because I don't think I could leave the job at the job.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think when we tell ourselves, like, yeah, you know, because you don't have access to your radio or CAD system, you just go home and leave everything behind you.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: And we have this like really significant division, that's that's not realistic.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's no different.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: People are bringing their personal life, um, those aspects of personal life into the job space as well.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think one of the biggest things when it comes to training um early on, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, it may be focused really on those task performance and the operational technical knowledge, but when we also recognize from day one in uh a training scenario, whether it's all on the job, if you have an academy, whatever it is, is those people are coming with um their families as their key supporters.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things I loved when I got to my current agency is as an aspect of academy, was we bring those support people in during academy, and we just kind of have like a really transparent conversation.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: This is what to expect.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: And we have a panel of people who also bring their support people so that someone's partner may be able to say, this is what it's like when my partner comes home from maybe a really rough shift.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: This is how we've learned to work through it and deal with it.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: And we share those best practices, we share those thoughts, and we really create a um a depth to that conversation to say, we're not doing this um alone ever.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that starts to really build some of that forward movement.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I know there's a lot of places around the country that are doing that, and I think it's just something as we continue to recognize, um, even historically, there was times where um the the leadership in the place where I am now, where they would even go meet with those support people, like, you know, for coffee, right?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: And kind of meet as a group to just say, hey, we're excited to meet your loved one who's on our team.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: Tell us more about what makes all of you tick.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And again, what that does is that permits so many further aspects, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: When someone's going through something significant, whether at work or in their personal life, we have kind of a baseline.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yesterday, two days ago, I was working with some of our new supervisors on our team, going through some training and reminding them that so much of our approach to leadership and caring about that whole 9-1 professional is when we go to have conversations to pe with people, we want them to be a check-in, not a checkup.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: And my former agency, that was a big mantra for our peer support team, is we want to do check-ins, not checkups.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: And what that also further does is we also want people to feel comfortable with all the resources at their disposal so that someone doesn't feel like, ooh, I need to maybe go talk to the agency psychologist or the agency clinician who I've never met, and it feels really uncomfortable and ultra sterile to be like, no, these people that care for you in this space because they care about the whole you are a familiar face to you from day one.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think a lot of that change allows us to start.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it goes back to though, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: The most simple, basic, probably practical transition is some of those uh dated mindsets of I'm not gonna learn someone's name, like we just we can't permit any of that any longer.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I you brought up so many good points, and I wish that everyone or every agency out there did that family night or that family engagement, because I think that that is so important because you know, we we try to teach stress management and and having a support system, and from day one that should you know that that that goes a long way.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And again, not for that person to know, yes, my family's here, I can rely on them, but like you said, even for the agency to getting to get to know the family, that's huge.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I I like that.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I know you focus a great deal on employee engagement, and like we just talked about, what helps a 911 professional feel connected to the mission, the team, and the organization even more so?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's a phenomenal question.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I think that's that question, probably to a great deal, is what may help an organization recognize or a team recognize are we making the cultural inroads and the cultural progress we want with our team or are we not?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I I think so much, and and even in research that I've done, research I've read, and what this looks like is the um and and even out of Gallup, right?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: Some of their big studies, the reality is if people don't feel connected to the mission, they absolutely there's a pretty low chance that they're gonna be engaged.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: And a disengaged employee, um, you start to see just the normal natural aspects of, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: We go back to that whole 911 professional, the whole person is we're gonna see a disengaged employee um finding different means to not necessarily always be at work, whether they're they're real or not, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: We talk about sick days or other needs or conflicting issues that come up, we see the lack because they haven't fully grasped what it means to be a part of the mission, that team or the organization as a whole.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of it too is continuing to shift some of the narrative.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: I know one of the things that we've been able to do with the team I work with and what that looks like is to be able to recognize that uh if we can move kind of the needle from a very policy-driven approach to more of a values-driven approach from onboarding to training to discipline to additional training to uh promotions, all of that being driven more by an agency's mission and values over necessarily um like policy procedure, you start to see more of that holistic total 901 professional coming to the table.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think another thing that uh unfortunately happens far too often is we say, um, we need, you know, like we're we're gonna have a hiring or a promotional type process or a selection of some sort.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so we find the best person at the current job they're in and say, yep, they're ready to be this next level.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't know that we have tapped into any of the awareness of their purpose or their belonging when we say, can you do the task aspects of the job really well?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe, but does that necessarily translate to being the best leader to be the next supervisor or the next operations manager or the next director to really move an organization forward?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe not.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think a lot of that, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Your cultural champions, um, your values leaders come from those people who understand the mission.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think so much that has to be done and it is being done more and more.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I think what helps those professionals feel connected to that is they are truly a part of it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: And what I mean by that is if your mission is so stale to a degree that people can't speak it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: I remember in college, one of the biggest things that we learned is if you walk into any organization and ask them what their mission, vision, and values are, if they can't uh, for the most part, regurgitate it or kind of share it back out, they probably have not only do they not know it, but they're not focused on it or living it or doing anything beneficial with it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's things like that, right?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just the rote memorization.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: One of the cool tasks and and processes that I've seen done is letting people look at what are some of those value-driven words and helping them apply it to their life, making it practical, tangible, realistic.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I know the people that I get to lead beside have have some really um have approached that in some thoughtful ways in the past, which further has connected those team members to the outcomes.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think things like revisiting your mission, um, revisiting aspects of of kind of what it means to be a team on a regular basis is is really great.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that I, in sessions I've taught before, and I I go back to is Jacko really looks at how this was put into play in the Navy SEALs when he was a part of it.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: And he talks about at times that if a single person is so um unaware of the need of the team to meet the mission that they are essentially going their own course, you're never as a team gonna meet that mission.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it's almost better for that team to sometimes be moving a little bit in the right direction versus half of the team moving in the wrong direction, half maybe moving in the right direction at a faster pace.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: But then you start to have this battle between the two um parts of an organization.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: So if you can get everyone roped around uh or focused around, I should say, let's move a little bit in the right direction always.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: We start to see that yes, we understand team, we're working towards our mission and we're really going to accomplish it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a huge significant piece of that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: That the benefits that then stem from that is people inherently recognize I do belong.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: They inherently understand I do have purpose here.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that challenges them.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of great simple conversational techniques that can be used, whether it's during one-on-ones or other times that people are working together in an organization, to just remind people of what their why is.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I know one of the things I also um have become more attuned to is people by virtue, I think at times, uh, for they lose sight to a degree of what their why is.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that's because we don't encourage them to focus on it enough.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um so finding ways in in our all of our 911 centers across the country and really the world to keep people focused on their whys, some of that is as leaders, you have to know the whys of the people around you.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a really vulnerable conversation to have, but it's so, so purposeful and impactful.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, totally.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I bow down to everything that you just said because totally true.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing is you like you said, you are part of a team, you are part of a family, and and you live you work so many hours.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you see the people in the dispatch center more than you do see your family at home.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you really are a family and you need to feel like one.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody brings a special part to this dysfunctional family.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you touched on a little bit ago too about how it may not even be just the dispatch center itself, especially if you're part of a larger agency like larger police departments or fire departments.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: You should feel like a family within your department as well.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's important to always remember that too, and have activities and and and the things that bring you together in the center and as a department as a whole.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then another thing too that you triggered um that I thought about is celebration and acknowledgments that go a long way and incorporating the families into that.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know when I first started, um, you know, when you got some type of commendation or or some, you know, promotion or something, you either just got a mention in briefing, or there were every every once in a while you have to go to the sheriff's office and get a picture with the sheriff with a certificate.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: But now they do a lot more things where they actually have pinning ceremonies and and graduations and things where families can come and other people can come.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it does mean something.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's really cool.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: It goes out on social media and people may say, Well, I don't need a big hurrah, but you do.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you do.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think you you uh you kind of remind me of a couple things.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: First and foremost, there are so many uh everyday leadership behaviors that can really help strengthen that sense of connection.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think a lot of it is when you start to truly know your people and you want to celebrate them, you know how to celebrate them in a way that's gonna feel genuine.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's nothing, nothing worse than someone who has zero desire.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: To have a photo taken with a sheriff and then have that posted on social media, and we say that's the only way we're going to celebrate you.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a place for that, but also understanding that some people do like some of those quiet celebrations.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so how can we do that well?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think another thing though, and one of the other subcontent things that we were kind of had mapped out or you had mapped out prior was what are those quiet things that can sometimes weaken that sense or or maybe break down that sense of belonging.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's the flip side of that.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's when you do know your team and yet you're doing things opposite, or you haven't taken the time to know your team.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: So you think haphazardly as a leader, like, well, if we just do everyone wants a food day, they want to make food on their time off at home and bring it in so we can all have like a potluck or a pitch in or whatever you want to call it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: And the number of times that I've been able to sit with some with other leaders and say, is that what, is that what they want?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Or is that maybe what we think is exciting?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because we have the time to do that.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: Or, and so we've been able to think through like even the things we think historically may have brought people together.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is that is that culturally the norm nowadays?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think so much of that, right?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Leadership is about understanding your team and doing something that's going to be helpful.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because no one wants to say, yeah, this is great.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: We had so much wonderful food brought in, but all the food came in on first shift.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: So by the time third shift came in, they weren't really about the food day and everything they're eating is stale, cold, and old.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: And yet we're saying, no, but we're doing it because we value you.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so again, just being cognizant of what are the things that we may inadvertently be saying, even though we have good intentions, we're inadvertently saying we maybe don't value you as much as we as we do.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: I get that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: And especially coming from um me who spent the majority of my career chosen on graveyard.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: And graveyard, it was always it was always that way.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Every celebration was a day shifting, and we got whatever other people didn't want or just the leftover crumbs, and that was it.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and that brings us kind of to this next question because employees do come to 911 with different life experiences, maybe at different stages of the careers.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, how can leaders recognize those differences and provide meaningful support without making assumptions or relying on the normal generational stereotypes?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and I'm glad we talked about generational stereotypes.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of the things that I am truly diabolically opposed to that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, every single time I teach, I love to say, yes, I may be a millennial, but I'm not traditional.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: And here's the deal when we we look at generational stereotypes and we put people in boxes, um, we really limit their ability, we limit their creativity.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, I say, that's cool, put me in a box, but I'm gonna rather see this box as a spaceship or a race car or a pirate ship, right?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's something that is unseen and untouched so far.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: Don't put me in a box.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's that's what we have to do when we truly care about our teams, knowing they come from these different life experiences, these different backgrounds.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: What career did they do prior?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: We we need to celebrate that because that diversity and um those varied different backgrounds and experiences are truly what I think make some of our teams the greatest in the country when it comes to the ability to jump in and work through things.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think the other unique thing is we so often see people who have come from maybe like uh they were a barista prior or or some of these other industries in food service as a whole, where they're used to dealing with stress.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so we say that's why they're really good at the job.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I would actually contend at times it's not that they're just great at dealing with stress, like a lot of different inputs thrown at them at once.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's they have worked in an industry where uh you mess up someone's coffee order, they're gonna let you know.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to keep yourself composed and try to essentially de-escalate and bring bring some clarity to chaos in the midst of someone's morning coffee run absolutely being destroyed because you used this milk alternative versus this one.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so we we recognize, right?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Or we should be more intentional and recognize that all these different backgrounds, there's so many like comparable skills and experiences that we can bring together.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: So let's celebrate them.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the ways uh that that can be done to a high level at times is like knowing what those people did prior, right?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: They put maybe put it on their job application, but once they're through, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: You're not making those hiring decisions based on that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: But once they're coming in and maybe you're an academy or on the job training, whatever it looks like, is as a CTO or as a trainer, getting to know those people to say, share more about it.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we have uh people on our team who I never knew this until more recently, shame on me, but like have gone to even like culinary school as a whole.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I start to think about all of these culinary TV shows that I've watched, and I recognize there it's no wonder that this person is such an excellent trainer and has been has been very often commended for their ability to train well because they have done some of these things in a prior life or a prior career that is all about getting taking taking a whole bunch of different things and trying to make a masterpiece out of it and and be really creative.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think we forget those things, right?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like how much value that person's prior um life experience really brings to the table.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: Assumptions, um, those relying on stereotypes as a whole, those truly are the nail in the coffin, in my opinion, to some degree of creativity and the ability to really move um your team or organization forward.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think when we let those different things happen, that's we have truly said we're not really passionate about this.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so then sadly, we start to say to people like, yeah, we don't really care about maybe what your hopes, dreams, and goals are in this industry.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um we we're not super interested in what other career goals you have, and we're not gonna help you proceed, you know, kind of uh proceed through different stages to accomplish those things.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: So again, it comes down to it's the basics, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's communication at its core.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's recognizing that no two people have the same needs and and being aware of what are those persons' needs.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what does that person care about?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: What does listening look like, right?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Even in to some capacity, is uh is it a is it an opportunity because it's a younger employee who hasn't maybe had as many life experiences to not only talk about the job stuff, but talk about life stuff.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh or is it merely that this is a person who really just has questions about the job and focusing on what is what is truly important in front of everyone at that time.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: At GovWorks, we put all responders first, starting with the first first responder, 911.
• 29:22
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• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: With nearly 100% of call and radio QA, you see the full picture of performance, compliance, and reduce the risk of the unknown in your center with training.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: You turn those evaluations and real events into fully interactive training simulations and automated observation reports.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: With Hire, you identify the skills and resiliency of candidates before they ever put on a headset.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And now, with assist, Commscoach can be in the call live, transcribing, translating, and guiding in real time.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: ComScoach gives supervisors, trainers, and QA teams the tools to reinforce strengths, close gaps through coaching, and grow the next generation of first-first responders, Commscoach, because putting responders first means helping you retain and grow your team.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: You started off by saying celebrate those differences.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: And actually that's what I had written down too, because you do, and just getting to know your employees and finding out what they can offer, what they can bring to the table.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um talking about generational differences and all of that, yes, there's those stereotypes.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember when I first started at LVMPD, I came in at 19 years old, you know, and everyone's thinking, oh, there's this young girl, but my supervisor at the time was amazing.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: And she got to know me.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And right after I got through training, come to point out she found out that I had been working in another center for the federal government along with a lot of state agencies.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew jurisdictions.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: So she actually um had me create the training for the department for concurrent jurisdiction and who handled what between federal and state and local and all that.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: So here I am, a brand new, new um, you know, person just out of training and created the training for the department because she got to know me and she knew what I could bring to the table.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we need to do is look, every single person has a specialty or something that they can they can contribute to the team as a whole.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do that, you become stronger.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you you hit the nail on the head with that.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like the reality is sometimes the best idea is going to come in from your newest team member because they haven't sat in the same organizational norms for as long as others have.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: And they're bringing a fresh new perspective.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: So whether it's a new employee or a new employee who maybe is coming in with some sort of leadership capacity, but from maybe outside a team to say, here's a different angle or a different view, here's a different lens that I'm seeing this through.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, just being able to ask those tough questions.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that goes back to right, one of the ways that you can really value those, the different people and people coming in at different career stages or what those career stages is, is never creating an atmosphere where it's unsafe to ask questions.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's so vitally important.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then one little plug-on here is actually when we're talking about um looking at experiences and what what people can bring or what people need to learn or different things, is we have the the higher assessment, which is assessing the skills and competencies of a new hire to see where they're strong, but then also see where they might need additional coaching or support and provide that.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not looking at everyone coming in as a whole, oh, they're all brand new people.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there's something somebody coming in with these strengths.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: But let's look at these particular weaknesses and focus on those so that we can build them up and and help and support them.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: So dispatch centers have serious performance expectations and very little room for error.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, how can leaders maintain clear standards and accountability while still recognizing the human being behind the set uh behind the headset?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it I think that's a phenomenal question.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think ultimately when we talk about um the organizational needs and necessity, especially as we're talking about reclassification and continuing to have our profession recognized as a profession, um we we can't just turn a blind eye to those required standards, the accountability, what all that looks like.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: However, we can always approach things with a level of dignity and care for the person.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, there's very little room for error at times and and what this looks like, but there is a word that comes to mind that you had um suggested in some of the write-up uh and what this looks like and just said here a moment ago is it's truly about accountability.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think about even growing up, right?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: We used to hear concepts of tough love and some of these different aspects of things.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it truly all goes back to saying, I care so much about you that I am going to actually hold you accountable.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: The biggest reality, and I think I was even on LinkedIn today or yesterday, I had seen someone post something about like, right, that first mistake isn't really a mistake, but truly it's just learning that you didn't know you needed yet.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so much of that is what this is about, right?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: Accountability is yes, we're gonna hold you accountable to XYZ, but yet we're gonna use that as a springboard to say we're moving forward.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's about things like um, you know, discipline truly being recognized as like behavior modification versus just punitive to just like make someone feel crummy.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: But no, we really have a positive, hoped outcome to come from this.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think so much of that, right?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's the human side of leadership, too, is even if you have to deliver bad news or hold someone accountable in a way that maybe it doesn't even necessarily turn out well for them, is still reminding them of maybe what their opportunities are to still get support from the organization, even after maybe there's some sort of separation.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, being able to recognize like how do we truly care about you?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's also recognizing that at times, even for the people that we may have become friends with in an organization, tough things have to happen.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have to necessarily sever all semblance of that relationship.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so performance, the human side of leadership, all of that goes back to we are all people, no one's perfect.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so what we need to continue to do is just recognize like every opportunity is a learning opportunity and finding ways to help people build on that while still holding them accountable.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think the at times I've seen the scary reality is so much of the lack of accountability because we we care about the person that we forget that you still have to hold them accountable, and that is caring about them as well.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: You also teach dispatch at the community college level.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: What should education programs do to prepare students for both the technical demands of 911 and the realities of becoming part of an emergency communications team?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think first and foremost, it's we can't sugarcoat anything.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: We have to be honest and rather transparent.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, one of the big things for us uh in in the program that I get to be a part of is talking about those realities of the job, right?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: There is no way, shape, or form that we want to sell someone and do like a bait and switch um beyond what is realistic.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think so much of that, honestly, for for them is as we work through these programs, is getting them into the center to see what it's like to talk to people who have had these experiences, recognizing that um I can I can share one viewpoint or angle, but I don't know everyone else's, even on my team.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so giving them multiple and sometimes conflicting different viewpoints about things so that it truly gives someone the ability to say, is this something I'm super passionate about?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: Which then goes back to all those things we talked about earlier today, is if if someone actually says, yeah, I'm like wholesale into this, super passionate, excited, I get the mission, I understand their values, I'm behind that.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Even before maybe they apply for an organization, you have already built, you have already built so much momentum, you have greased those skids in a way that you can't even probably put your finger on.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think a lot of it ultimately is saying those preparation programs, yes, there's the cognitive, technical, operational stuff that needs to be learned, but we have to talk about the human realistic side of things as basic at times of like shift work and working through holidays and working on holidays.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: And how how do you balance this thing called life in the midst of learning this new job that's that is demanding, you know, both physically and emotionally at times, just from what you're doing and and kind of the the cognitive stuff that goes into that is to say, how can we help you think about these things before you're you're absolutely between a rock and a hard place is a big piece of that.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you touched upon the biggest thing.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yes, we want to teach the skills, but all of those other things are so important because if you can get somebody to have that passion even before they start, that's huge.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then also, like you said, teaching them about the realities and those the workplace readiness skills or the soft skills and knowing that you have to come to work on time and how to be a professional and all of those things.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then one of the things that I w felt was really, really important, and I did every single class something about stress management and learning how to take care of themselves so that they can be there for others, because that's one thing sometimes a lot of us forget to to talk.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we part of an academy, there might be a day where you talk about stress management, but if you build it into somebody and really know before they even start, hopefully they can make it a long career and get through that career.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I think this goes, you know, back to earlier that check-in versus check-out mentality, knowing those providers is yeah, helping people understand even in that preparation, career preparation standpoint of what what are your what are the things that help you deal with stressful situations?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: How can you, because I don't know that those things are as focused on in any traditional educational setting or or other development for most of our of our young people in the world today.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so finding ways to make sure that they know those things.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think so much too is that they just can't pour themselves into like a screen.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: They have to consider again when we're talking about the whole 911 professional, they have to recognize that to be a whole professional, they have to care for their whole being as well.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, totally agree.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Once employees are trained and working independently, how can an agency continue to develop them so that they can see a future for themselves in 911 and make this a career?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think a lot of it, um, and even yesterday I was I was having a conversation during a one-on-one is is asking people like, what are your um, you know, what are your goals and and keeping that in front of them.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: But really, like for instance, it was it was this person whose goal someday is to hold the position in our organization that I have today.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: They want to hold it, but they felt uncomfortable saying that.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, no, I'm never offended when someone says, like, I would love to have your job someday.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Rather, I think that to a degree is is kind of an endearing reality, but it also helps us recognize like people have that passion and excitement.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what just builds in inherent ability to share, because there's no guarantee on how long any of us are gonna be in our in our role, not only by virtue of maybe you change organizations, but just who knows what life is gonna throw at people.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so to be able to recognize and constantly daily say that there's growth beyond just that initial training, that there's opportunities to learn aspects, how can we safely um give away and empower some of that?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: I, you know, I think so often uh I go back to like the visual image of like Scrooge McDuck, I think is who I want to say, right?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like just pulling all that money and and keeping all that invaluable wealth in his own place.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: And and so often that happens in our industry, right?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like people will will have their pockets loaded with with change that if only they had spent it earlier on making some risky, not like horribly risky, but like taking a risk, I should say, on telling someone, like, hey, I think you'd be great at this.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: Is this something you're interested in?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let me bring you aside alongside me to try to learn or try to do or or see.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so much still is about we keep things in silos and and we don't bridge, we don't build those bridges when I think we could do a better job of that, right?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: And really, that's and for me, that's that is so much of what empowering that next generation looks like.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's why I'm personally am so passionate about like we want to leave a legacy and we need to see this as this infinite game that we are in.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's there's nothing finite, there is no winners and losers, there's no end to it.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Simon Sinek in his book, The Infinite Game, kind of talks about this image, and I think it's early on in the book where he's talking about these two paths, right?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: And you can take the path that goes more towards this finite mindset to where we're we're all running in that one direction.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: And when we get to the end, everyone celebrates us, and that feels good.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: But the next time you get to some other end, are they gonna be there?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Versus the other path where we see this as an infinite, kind of an infinite mindset is as we're running along, we're bringing people alongside of us so that we're all running this race together.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: So it's when we get to the finish line, it's that there's this whole crew, this whole group of us who we will then celebrate together, but we're not celebrating the being by others who may be there the next time.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: Rather, we're bringing people into that game with us and bringing them alongside.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that is so absolutely imperative beyond initial training, is to say, how can we, right?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: And the reality too is some people may not have big aspirations or hopes to go do something like significant.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like they may not ever want to be a director, they may not ever want to be even a CTO.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but there's still things that we can do to kind of tap into.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: What keeps them curious and interested so that they don't feel like they're just showing up to do a job and not making a difference and losing sight of their why.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you would agree with this because of your per be personally and professionally, is the thing is it's always continued training and you can always get better each and every day.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: You feel confident when you have those that knowledge, skills, and abilities to do your job well.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: And things are always training or changing.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're still educating yourself, then you have that confidence and and you like what you do.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that's why I have the best job in the world right now because um being VP over education, the majority of my job is creating educational tools for dispatch.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's awesome because it's it's fun.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, even if you've been at an agency 30, 35 years, there's still something new that you can learn and you can always grow and get better.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and I think that, you know, and I think that goes back to as leaders, but even as informal leaders in an organization, right?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like your CTOs and your your people who are teaching in academy and your training teams and even your QA teams and stuff as a whole, is recognizing that we also to remain at the tip of the spear and be our best, we have to recognize that every single time we have a conversation, even maybe with the newest employee, it's possible we're gonna learn something really, really significant and be open and welcoming to that reality.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you said that because we're not just to the audience out there, we're not just talking up, I should say, just about call takers and dispatchers, but we're talking to everyone.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, even if you're the director administrator, again, there's things that you can learn and do to grow yourself to get you better and better every single day.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: So before we close, is there anything else that you would like to add, or is there anything that you hoped we would discuss today?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I think so much of what we have covered is really rich.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: I I think the reality is this isn't the end of the conversation, though.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that you all feel strongly about this by continuing to do the podcast, but I think that's that's the big reminder for for any listener is recognizing that this, see this as a springboard, a uh a playground where you are going to continue to learn and grow and not ever put yourself in a box.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so continue to challenge yourself to be the best iteration or version of yourself because when we hold ourselves to those same standards and principles, that that much more encourages us to do the same for that whole 911 professional.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_03: And we are going to continue to radically and positively impact the future of 911 as a whole.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, Matt, thank you for joining me and for sharing your experience and perspective today.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: No problem.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: I truly appreciate the work that you're doing as a dispatch manager, an educator, and an advocate for the profession.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: And again, you're an amazing speaker.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: You've given us a great deal to think about as we consider how to develop people throughout their 911 careers.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: And to everyone listening, thank you for spending the time with us today.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: Be sure to follow the Comms Coach podcast for more conversations with the people who are helping strengthen 911 through education, leadership, and shared experience.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a story, area of expertise, or idea that could help others in the 911 profession, and you would like to be a guest, please reach out to me.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to hear from you.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you again for listening, and we will talk to you next time.