Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Your Sales Process Is Broken! Here’s What Today’s Borrowers Actually Want

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Your Sales Process Is Broken! Here’s What Today’s Borrowers Actually Want · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
Are your sales and marketing speaking the same language?
0:02
Are they quietly sabotaging each other?
0:04
In today's market, where every lead counts and borrower trust is fragile,
0:08
disconnected messaging and rush processes don't just cost you deals.
0:12
They erode your long-term growth.
0:14
If you haven't rethought the borrower experience since Rayter and the Threes,
0:18
you're already behind.
0:20
My name is Jeff Zimfer and you're listening to the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast,
0:23
the number one podcast for mortgage professionals who want to sharpen their skills,
0:27
shift their mindset and close more business in any market.
0:30
Today on the show, we're asking,
0:31
how do you create a sales and marketing system that actually converts in today's market
0:36
and builds deeper, more loyal borrower relationships?
0:39
To help us answer that, we're joined by Jake Vermillion,
0:42
CMO of mortgage champions where he helps re-engineer sales and marketing strategies
0:47
to increase pull-through, close more loans and elevate the borrower experience.
0:51
And in this episode, you're going to learn three crucial things.
0:54
Why apply now calls are killing trust and what to do instead.
0:59
How loan officers can stop being order takers and start becoming true mortgage advisors
1:03
and where AI belongs in your process and where it absolutely doesn't belong.
1:07
We're also going to talk about the biggest mistake
1:09
retail loan officers are making right now what consumer direct teams are doing differently
1:14
and how to rethink networking for real business growth.
1:17
So if you're ready to close more loans with smarter systems and stand out by leading
1:21
with value, stick around for this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
1:36
Jake, welcome to the show.
1:38
It's great to be here, Jeff.
1:38
Thank you so much for having me.
1:40
I've been listening to your show for quite a while now.
1:42
I know Dale's been on in the past.
1:43
Yeah, it's really fun to come on myself.
1:45
Yeah, it's good to have you here as well because I know your need
1:48
deep in the trenches with working with companies and loan officers,
1:51
all about sales and marketing.
1:54
As a matter of fact, one of these things I'm doing now is I'm doing these little
1:58
who is or roasts, if you will, on GPT of like who is Jake for millions CMO of mortgage champions.
2:06
And what he does, according to GPT, you can tell me if this is accurate or not,
2:11
is you lead all marketing promotion and branding work for mortgage champions.
2:16
Number one, is that accurate?
2:18
Yes.
2:18
Okay.
2:19
Now this is where I think, yeah, so far so good, right?
2:21
Now this where we're going to probably unpack some of these little bullets here.
2:26
So it also says that you work to align marketing around what drives real results,
2:32
not just tactics, fixing broken sales processes and making the marketing sales alignment tighter.
2:38
I'd be curious to see where I got that.
2:40
I feel like it's probably from like a panel I did for the gathering with housing
2:43
our this past summer, but yeah, we certainly do that for sure.
2:46
Absolutely.
2:46
And speaking of housing wire, you are a housing wire rising star.
2:50
Congratulations.
2:50
Thank you.
2:51
Appreciate that.
2:52
Okay.
2:53
So let's get into that jumping off point from chat to BT.
2:57
Do you see that marketing sales is often misaligned?
3:01
Yeah, absolutely.
3:02
And there's a couple of places that that happens.
3:04
Maybe the easiest way to kind of think through it is just from the bar's experience, right?
3:08
So before we get there though, let me back up a bit.
3:11
You know, I'm obviously the chief marketing officer more champions.
3:13
Been around for 30 years at this point.
3:15
One of the go to solutions for sales training in the space, right?
3:19
So listening to this, you know,
3:20
knowing my association with our company and then of course,
3:22
my dad deal with millions of been around doing this forever and be thinking,
3:26
why are we talking about marketing and not sales, right?
3:28
Well, the reality is when you go into a shop like we do and you begin to
3:33
implement a system for the loan officers to be able to sell more effectively,
3:36
have more compelling conversations with their customers, convert customers,
3:41
more quickly and get a more secure bar
3:43
where by getting upfront commitment from that bar, right?
3:46
When we rework the way that they are talking to the referral partners, for example,
3:52
you then can create the opportunity for a disconnect.
3:55
If you've transitioned a loan officer, for example,
3:57
from having a highly transactional conversation with their customers,
4:00
predominantly around pricing, right?
4:02
Rates, fees, points, you name it,
4:05
and products to instead having a conversation around life goals,
4:09
how mortgage can serve them, the customer's needs, their desires,
4:12
right, and talking about how you can benefit them through the way that you structure their loan.
4:16
So those are all good things.
4:18
Obviously, that's the transition we want to make,
4:19
but it presents an opportunity where there could become a disconnect
4:22
between the quality of conversation that the sales people are having with their customers
4:26
and the referral partners and what's being pushed in the marketing, does that make sense?
4:30
So for example, I mean, to surface level,
4:32
the big picture we all know this,
4:34
if you land on a lender's website,
4:36
what's the first call to action you're more than likely to see?
4:39
Yeah, fill out a form.
4:41
Yeah, but even more than that start a formal application
4:45
that's going to push you towards what?
4:46
You had a birth and so security number, right?
4:48
Like, you need to have built some trust, right?
4:50
That's like what we're telling the loan officers, right?
4:52
It is, hey, before we get to the point,
4:54
where we're asking a customer to commit to us,
4:56
we need to show us some commitment to that.
4:57
We need to understand their situation, their goals,
4:59
their qualifications.
5:00
I make sure that this is the right time,
5:02
that they're not, you know, that low likelihood of a declination, for example,
5:06
but you go to the marketing, if you will,
5:08
whether that's social media,
5:10
post talking about specific products and programs,
5:12
whether that's banner ads talking about pricing, such as rates,
5:16
or whether it's a website,
5:17
pushing them immediately to apply in line
5:18
without having built any trust relationship with the loan officer,
5:21
there's a big disconnect there.
5:22
Does that make sense?
5:23
Yeah.
5:23
So that's kind of the first point where we need to get some alignment,
5:26
and then obviously there's, you know,
5:27
sort of smaller details that we need to work out as well
5:29
to make sure that that customer experience
5:31
from the top of the funnel all the way to that point,
5:32
where they connect with the loan officer,
5:33
and then through the process,
5:35
and closing, it's all seamless.
5:37
Where do you see with your experience,
5:39
30 years in mortgage champions,
5:41
you get called into a company to fix, right?
5:44
Fix, we want more productivity,
5:46
we want more production, more volume, etc.
5:49
When you're walking in, you've got your,
5:51
I don't know, put sure like homes on or whatever,
5:54
and you know, you're digging, you're uncovering stuff.
5:57
Do you usually find the, you know,
5:59
patterns that are seem to be repetitive across companies,
6:02
where the, you know, most of the opportunities are existing?
6:07
Yeah, and I think the patterns are universal,
6:10
especially across channels, right?
6:12
So you want to start with consumer director retail,
6:14
which would be a better place to start.
6:16
Well, that's very interesting.
6:17
I'm going to take most, let's take retail first,
6:19
because that's most of the audience.
6:21
I kind of figured, so let's start there.
6:23
What's the number one thing that we're hearing
6:25
from loan officers, right, especially walking to shops,
6:28
of why they feel like their business is not able to grow
6:30
as quickly as they want it to grow?
6:32
Well, in most cases, we hear the same answer.
6:34
They feel that it's a lack of inventory
6:36
or it's the affordability problem,
6:37
which granted we do have affordability challenges
6:40
in this marketplace, no doubt.
6:41
But let's start with inventory.
6:42
Inventory is actually not nearly as much of a problem
6:44
as you would think.
6:44
In fact, actually, if you account for the number of loan officers
6:47
who have left the business since the heights of COVID,
6:51
right, that post COVID market,
6:52
we actually have more inventory per active loan,
6:56
and I don't mean license.
6:56
I mean, active originating loan officer than we did in 2019.
7:01
2019 is about 5.8 units per loan officer.
7:03
Today, it's about 6.2.
7:04
Does that make sense?
7:05
Yeah.
7:06
Now, that's not to say that we don't have,
7:08
you know, we could use more inventory to serve
7:10
and change demographics, of course we could.
7:13
You know what I mean?
7:13
But the reality is, as a loan officer on any given transaction,
7:16
you're only really competing with one customer
7:18
against other loan officers, right?
7:20
The reality is you're competing against fewer today
7:23
because of that inventory equation.
7:24
Furthermore, we've seen that at least half of markets
7:30
across the countries, according to the NARs chief economist,
7:32
have seen price reductions this year, okay?
7:34
We know that there's a reduction in volatility.
7:36
This market has shifted to a buyer's market, right?
7:39
So there is an argument we made that,
7:41
yes, of course, rates are higher.
7:42
That's going to affect the payment.
7:44
But the reality is, if we went back in a time machine
7:47
back to 2020 and 2021,
7:49
and we reminded ourselves of how hard it was to serve a borer,
7:53
sure, rates were on the twos and threes,
7:54
but home price appreciation was like 5% to 10% per month,
7:58
increasing one over the other, people were competing 10, 20, 30,
8:02
even 40 plus $1,000 over asking price.
8:04
They were waving all of their contingencies.
8:06
They were buying side unseen.
8:08
You have so much more power as a buyer today
8:11
to be able to actually control the transaction
8:14
even though rates are higher, okay?
8:16
So yes, there's affordability challenges.
8:18
But even on that front, talking about a retail loan officer,
8:21
one of the things that we've been teaching them,
8:22
that we've been using on the consumer side for a long time,
8:25
that a lot of retail loan officers just don't even think
8:27
to incorporate into their conversation with a borer.
8:29
It's the fact that today, we have more consumer debt
8:32
and more equity, right?
8:34
Then we've ever seen before.
8:35
Well, of course, the equity we can only use
8:36
with existing homeowners,
8:37
but if someone's in a purchase transaction
8:39
and they're trying to bring to the table,
8:40
a large amount of cash for a down payment
8:42
to trying to press that monthly payment,
8:44
reverse or alternative strategy that you could take instead
8:46
is, what if we actually put less down solidated
8:50
some of the consumer debt rate, just eliminated it outright?
8:52
And when you start to look at the blended rates
8:53
of, you're no longer paying 21.9%, right?
8:57
On $10,000, $20,000 from consumer debt,
9:00
you're effectively rolling that into a mortgage
9:02
that you're taking on by putting 10% down, for example,
9:04
instead of 20%.
9:05
We actually really, when you look at the total amount
9:08
that a consumer spending month of her month
9:10
to service all of their debt, not just mortgage,
9:12
but mortgage, student loans, auto loans, credit cards,
9:15
you name it, we're actually bringing down that total amount,
9:18
right? Even stepping into a purchase.
9:20
So these are some of the core issues
9:22
that we see all the time every shopping walk into,
9:25
as things like people saying, it's the affordability,
9:27
it's the inventory, it's usually not those things.
9:30
Usually what it is is a lack of understanding
9:32
of how you conserve your bar, frankly,
9:34
a shortage of referral partners.
9:36
You just tend to have a lot more referral partners today
9:38
because inventory is constrained in certain markets.
9:41
And the only way to get around that
9:42
is to have more partners who can send you more business, right?
9:45
And even within that, to evaluate your existing partners,
9:48
and to look at the type of deals
9:49
that they're sending you and the volume,
9:51
and to give yourself an honest assessment of,
9:53
is this someone who's just sort of, you know what I mean?
9:55
Like paying me favors, and they don't really see me,
9:57
this is a partnership.
9:59
And it's not really something you can elevate.
10:00
And it might be better off actually ending this partnership,
10:03
and pursuing ones that are going to be more productive.
10:05
Or is this just something that, either they,
10:07
or I have not invested enough in taking the time to say,
10:10
hey, look, there's a ton of potential here.
10:11
We're super aligned.
10:12
I love working with you.
10:14
How can we work together better and more often?
10:17
And not just elevate your own business,
10:18
but elevate your partners as well.
10:19
Like, these are the things that we need to address,
10:22
basically every shop we walk into.
10:24
Yeah, so those are some critical areas you're auditing there.
10:27
I want to go back to the example you gave of the direct lender
10:32
and the buyer, and what I wrote down was consultant.
10:37
And so what it sounds like you're saying there
10:38
is that one of the strategies, if you will,
10:41
is instead of, you know, rushing rate to rate term,
10:46
things like that, take a pause.
10:48
I mean, this is kind of our job as a mortgage loan
10:52
originator is beyond just quoting rates and fees
10:55
if you really want to have a career and differentiate yourself.
10:58
What you're saying is you're suggesting to give advice
11:04
that's not normal or that's not expected
11:07
to that potential buyer, and you're going to evaluate
11:09
their total financial situation and see where the opportunities are
11:14
for them to do some financial restructuring,
11:16
rather than just, oh, here's what you're going to for it
11:17
for a 30-year fixed.
11:20
That's right.
11:21
100%.
11:22
Yeah.
11:22
And so real quick, do you think is that hard
11:26
for most originators to switch like that, to switch hats?
11:30
No, I really don't think it's hard for originators.
11:32
I think it's new, doesn't make sense.
11:34
Yeah.
11:35
So they fall into a habit.
11:37
Maybe it's the way that someone else in their office sells,
11:40
and they seem to do pretty well.
11:41
So why not do what that guy does, right?
11:44
Maybe it's from some of the habits that we picked up
11:46
in those heydays of 2020-2021, where loans were just
11:49
kind of fallen in our lap.
11:50
I mean, still today, where we can look at the average number of units
11:54
or the average volume that a loan officer is doing,
11:57
obviously it peels in comparison to what many,
11:59
who if they were in the business at the time,
12:00
we're doing four years ago.
12:02
And yet we look at the way that they handle customers on the phone,
12:06
and it's very similar, right?
12:08
It's a very quick pre-qualification,
12:10
confirmation of basic information.
12:12
None of that is being typically actively input
12:14
into an actual application.
12:15
And then the bar basically, I mean,
12:17
the loan officer basically says to the bar,
12:18
okay, great, sounds like, you know,
12:20
there's some opportunity here.
12:22
I'm going to shoot you a link.
12:23
You go ahead and fill that out,
12:24
and when I see it come through,
12:25
then we'll have a conversation, right?
12:27
And so they're forcing the bar to self-serve.
12:29
Why is the loan officer doing that?
12:30
They've gotten in their head that, one,
12:33
that's what the customer wants,
12:34
and let's be honest, if you look at the actual data,
12:36
no customer actually wants that.
12:38
Very few, right?
12:39
I mean, sure, maybe if this is someone you've done,
12:40
five other loans with, they're an investor.
12:42
It's, you know, the DCR kind of thing.
12:44
They're familiar with the drill, like,
12:45
yeah, maybe they do want to do some self-service there.
12:47
But when you're talking about your typical retail loan officer
12:50
who's handling a purchase transaction,
12:52
especially with the first time home buyer,
12:54
this is someone who actually wants
12:55
some guidance and some advice,
12:56
and they want more than anything
12:58
for someone to confirm for them,
13:00
give them confidence that they are making
13:01
the right decision for themselves or their loved ones, okay?
13:05
Walking through an application together on the phone
13:07
is a critical way to do that.
13:08
And it's also the only way that you're going to
13:10
disarm the objections that are going to come up
13:12
when they get to those critical fields,
13:14
like data birth, like social security number,
13:16
like, hey, attach your bank account here.
13:19
What do you want that for?
13:20
I mean, if you're not there on the phone
13:21
to explain in the moment,
13:22
why it is that you need that?
13:23
And how ultimately getting that documentation sooner
13:26
rather than later is going to allow you
13:28
to do your job better and get them
13:30
a actual offer that they can take to the bank, right?
13:33
Then they're just going to assume that it's nefarious
13:35
or now's not the right time,
13:36
or maybe they should, you know,
13:38
talk to a few other lenders before they commit
13:40
to one lender, right?
13:40
Like you're positioning yourself to be
13:42
shopped in that situation.
13:43
Yeah, we would say to loan officers,
13:45
like slow down, it's not 2020,
13:48
it's not 2021, you have time,
13:51
take 20 minutes with that borrower,
13:52
and don't waste it.
13:53
Don't ask all the questions
13:54
that you could be asking my complete application
13:56
and then still just send a link,
13:57
just start completing the application
13:59
and get that customer bought in from the front.
14:01
Yeah, I'm curious as I hear this
14:03
around what you're seeing
14:06
and what you might be able to forecast the road ahead,
14:09
you know, the intersection of AI
14:12
with this human involvement.
14:14
And I'm curious, you know,
14:15
because we're talking about marketing and sales
14:17
and that whole integration there.
14:20
And I know you're pretty savvy on this whole AI thing.
14:22
And my curiosity is at what stage
14:26
of the consumer funnel, right?
14:29
Your journey, better word.
14:33
Are you seeing that your clients are starting to ask you about,
14:37
about when and where do we implement,
14:40
because this is facet, right?
14:41
It is, it's simpler in a lot of ways
14:44
in terms of collecting some of the information.
14:46
And I'm seeing some examples of it out there.
14:48
But there is that point, that sweet spot,
14:51
you know what I mean?
14:52
When you're in that dance,
14:53
what are you seeing?
14:55
What are you recommending?
14:56
Yeah, so first of all, I appreciate you saying
14:57
that there is in fact a sweet spot
14:58
and that this is a dance, right?
15:00
I couldn't agree more.
15:01
And the way that I like to think about it
15:03
and when I'm talking with our clients
15:04
about these decisions and you're exactly right.
15:07
They're asking questions from the very top of the funnel
15:09
all the way through to how, you know,
15:12
ISIS making updates to encompass, for example,
15:14
we have more options to be able to do automated underwriting.
15:16
What do you think about that?
15:17
And I mean, so it's, it's the full cradle
15:19
of the great origination and manufacturing
15:20
that they're exploring how they can implement
15:22
this new technology.
15:23
And I think that's smart.
15:24
Like I think you really should think about
15:26
every aspect of this process being influenced
15:28
by the existence of artificial intelligence.
15:31
Where I would push back though,
15:32
as you hear this phrase a lot of human and elute, right?
15:35
I think it's the other way around
15:36
is the way that we need to think about.
15:37
We need to think about AI and the loop.
15:39
This is a human driven process
15:40
that we need to be selectively and strategically
15:43
injecting artificial intelligence into for efficiencies
15:46
and for accuracy, right?
15:49
Like that's the way that we need to think about it.
15:51
So when you're thinking about what's,
15:53
we're in that dance, right?
15:55
Should you be allowing artificial intelligence
15:57
to interact with the customer versus your people?
16:00
I would strongly recommend you need to think through
16:05
like the nature of the type of information
16:07
that you're looking for or that the customer's looking for.
16:09
Okay?
16:10
And so let me break that down.
16:12
There, I would say there's low sort of relationship
16:16
information that a customer might seek, right?
16:18
And now I think the basics of mortgage,
16:20
like what's a baseline credit score
16:24
that might qualify you?
16:25
What's the difference between a 30 and a 20 year term?
16:28
How much does that typically impact payment?
16:30
What is an FHA loan, these sorts of things?
16:32
Not to say that you can't build relationship
16:34
and establish yourself as an expert,
16:35
if you choose to answer those questions for your customer,
16:37
you absolutely can.
16:39
But there's a difference between that type
16:41
of sort of transactional information, if you will,
16:43
or just background information,
16:44
versus the type of information
16:46
that you want to be extract from the customer
16:48
and where the customer is starting to think about,
16:50
like there's an emotional connection
16:52
to the answer to the question that they're beginning to ask,
16:54
right?
16:55
Like is now a good time for me to buy, right?
16:58
If you're thinking, if it's a renter,
16:59
if you think about should I get in a home ownership?
17:02
I want to participate in equity is home ownership,
17:04
the right type of equity that I want to accumulate, right?
17:09
How big of a home should I buy?
17:11
How much of a payment should I take on?
17:13
I'm hearing that home insurance is increasing, right?
17:15
Like should I consider buying less house?
17:18
These are all the types of questions
17:20
that you have an opportunity to build relationship
17:22
and trust by answering much more so than defining
17:25
what an FHA loan is.
17:26
This is a convention alone, does that make sense?
17:28
Yeah, I want to make sure I'm understanding there.
17:29
Are you saying that those questions
17:31
are the human involved questions?
17:33
Yes, so you should be asking the questions
17:35
and you should always be making sure
17:37
that you're the one in conversation with the customer,
17:40
not your artificial intelligence, for example,
17:42
when you're getting into anything
17:43
that can have an emotional connection.
17:44
Now, this may not be evident on the surface
17:49
to most loan officers, right?
17:50
So for example, when we walk through a loan application,
17:53
one of the things that we have to fill in is employment
17:55
and income debt, right?
17:58
Most loan officers ask that like a doctor, right?
18:02
Where are you currently employed?
18:03
Do you have any dependence that you would like to declare?
18:06
You know what I mean?
18:07
Like it's very, you know,
18:08
it doesn't build relationship or trust.
18:10
You can ask those questions in a different way.
18:11
And so some of these questions should be very obvious
18:15
to people like a question like, you know,
18:18
well, what are your goals in trying to become a homeowner,
18:21
right?
18:22
Why is that that you're trying to leverage
18:25
the equity in your home?
18:26
You know what I mean?
18:27
What are you trying to accomplish?
18:28
How can I help you with that, right?
18:29
Like these are questions have emotional connections.
18:31
That should be pretty evident to people.
18:32
But even when you're getting what might seem
18:35
like basic information on a 10-03,
18:37
there are still opportunities to build relationship
18:39
and ask questions in a way where it's like,
18:40
hey, what do you do for them?
18:41
You seem like a great person.
18:42
Like, help me understand what you do for a career.
18:45
They're family, you know, it's not dependent.
18:46
You know, hey, do you have any kids?
18:48
Are you married?
18:48
Oh, how long have you been married?
18:50
You know what I mean?
18:51
Like this is a way for,
18:51
and then to share about your home,
18:52
oh, that's so great.
18:53
We've been married for 10 years as well.
18:54
Oh, yeah, we just took the kids on vacation.
18:57
Now they're back in school, we're all sick.
18:59
Like they're always to build a connection with a customer.
19:02
If you just treat it the right way
19:03
and don't just sort of check the box.
19:05
And what you're saying is people want that.
19:07
Absolutely, absolutely.
19:09
So we listen to calls for every single
19:12
one of our enterprise clients.
19:13
In fact, we're actually in the process
19:14
of building out an AI call scoring platform
19:17
that can do this automatically
19:18
by integrating directly with the dialer
19:20
based on the thousands of calls that we've already scored, right?
19:23
But having, like, we listen to these calls
19:26
every single week, right?
19:27
And so I can tell you,
19:29
you know, we, we onboard a client
19:32
and we listen to the calls,
19:33
we listen to those transactional questions,
19:35
we see a call that's, you know,
19:36
five, six, seven minutes in length
19:38
at the very end of that call is just, okay, great.
19:39
Let me send you a link.
19:40
We know what the,
19:41
we know what the pull-through
19:42
and conversion rates on those are
19:43
and they're abysmal to be just blunt with you, right?
19:46
And as we get through this training,
19:48
we impart the system to the law of service.
19:49
We change the way that they think about
19:50
how they can interact with their customers.
19:52
You start listening to those calls again,
19:53
the times they go up,
19:54
they're no longer five, six, seven minute calls,
19:56
they're 15, 18, 22 minute long calls, right?
20:00
And we're hearing this interaction
20:01
between the customers and bars.
20:02
Do you know what suddenly drops out of the transcript
20:05
when you get to that point where it's a longer call?
20:07
It's about the benefits that you're gonna give
20:09
to the borrower through the mortgage
20:10
and your establishing relationship
20:12
with these application questions,
20:13
rate immediately drops out of the question
20:15
every single time.
20:16
It's almost like an afterthought
20:17
at the very end of the call where someone goes,
20:19
well, actually, I think I forgot to ask is,
20:21
you're right.
20:22
Right, yeah.
20:23
And all the learners have to do say, super competitive.
20:25
Absolutely.
20:26
We're gonna get to the lowest rate we possibly can.
20:27
It's gonna be great.
20:28
I'm curious, we're gonna dance a little bit
20:31
between consumer direct and the retail.
20:34
Yes.
20:35
A lot of officer or broker.
20:36
I'm curious to your point about all those calls
20:38
you're listening to.
20:40
And it's abysmal to use your word there.
20:43
I'm curious if the source of the lead makes a difference.
20:46
And are you, do you put the different types
20:49
of originator in different categories,
20:51
consumer direct versus relationship-based,
20:53
referral-based realtor, right?
20:55
Do you see that the context or the framework
20:58
of that lead engagement, that referral engagement,
21:02
those are two different things?
21:03
It is, and I'll say two things here.
21:06
And just to clarify, the pull-through and conversion
21:09
of those calls as abysmal, the calls themselves,
21:12
usually not abysmal, I don't come across that many loan officers
21:16
that I really think, wow, this person really shouldn't be
21:18
in this role, if it does happen, it's rare, you know.
21:21
But you can see the potential for improvement.
21:25
And you unlock something in that person of,
21:26
wow, they really are an amazing salesperson,
21:28
they just didn't have the right playbook.
21:29
And now that they've got it,
21:31
those conversion pull-through rates are through the roof, right?
21:33
So as far as the difference between consumer direct
21:36
and retail, the first thing I'll say
21:38
is consumer direct loan officer,
21:40
naturally has to be a more competitive salesperson.
21:43
Because there is no context,
21:44
there's very rarely an established relationship,
21:47
they're competing on a more national scale, right?
21:50
So there tends to be a higher floor
21:53
in terms of call quality
21:54
when it comes to a consumer direct loan officer.
21:56
Now, the reality is though, you know,
21:58
their margins are thinner, they have to do more units
22:00
and more volume, right?
22:01
I mean, in order to sort of live a similar lifestyle
22:04
with a retail loan officer.
22:05
So, you know, that just is what it is.
22:07
The floor allotment is different.
22:09
The nature of the conversation really is not very different
22:11
except for the very beginning of the call,
22:13
which is that a consumer direct loan officer
22:15
has to do a whole lot more work
22:17
to explain why it is that they're in touch
22:19
with that customer at that moment,
22:21
to remind that customer of how they receive their information.
22:24
Often there has to be a declaration of something
22:26
like a recorded line, for example.
22:28
And so it's more important to front load immediately
22:30
within the first 30 seconds of the call,
22:32
exactly what you think you can do for that customer,
22:34
to get them to want to buy into
22:36
at least the next couple of minutes
22:37
and then from there more time beyond that.
22:39
Makes sense. Yeah.
22:41
Retail loan officers get a bit more leash, right?
22:44
But I will say this, where we often see,
22:47
which is surprising to me,
22:48
miss if you will on the retail side,
22:50
is there's just not enough recognition
22:53
of the referral source when we listen to calls
22:56
even by retail loan officers.
22:57
You will hear it on occasion,
22:59
but even then usually it's light.
23:00
It's not as sort of as congratulatory
23:04
and partner oriented as it could be.
23:06
If you're a retail loan officer
23:08
and you pick up the phone or the customer,
23:09
even a warm referred customer,
23:11
you need to go above and beyond to express
23:12
how great the partner is
23:14
that gave you that opportunity
23:16
and to make it seem like you are two peas and a pod,
23:19
you've been working together forever
23:20
and you are gonna do everything that you possibly can,
23:22
hell or I water to make sure that their experience is,
23:25
as topnotches can be,
23:26
and you're not gonna blow a closing date, for example, right?
23:28
Like that needs to be communicated quickly up front.
23:31
Also, I would say retail loan officers
23:32
probably should lean a bit more on their personal credentials,
23:35
a little less on the corporate, corporate still matters.
23:37
So don't, if you work for a retail organization,
23:40
don't not mention the name of your company
23:42
or how long you've been in business
23:43
or you're to be in like some of the awards
23:45
and everyone recently,
23:46
mention all of those,
23:47
but those are gonna be a little bit more front and center
23:49
with a consumer rec shop
23:51
where it's a bit more of a branded experience
23:52
if that makes sense and a little less focused
23:54
on the individual loan officer.
23:55
Yeah, there's a lot in there actually.
23:57
Hey, are you tired of cold calling realtors
23:59
and feeling like you're getting nowhere?
24:00
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24:04
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24:06
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24:09
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24:11
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24:14
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24:16
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24:17
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24:20
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24:22
I joined it because I was tired of doing business
24:25
the way that regular loan officers
24:26
have been doing it in my market,
24:28
which is just making the core calls every Monday
24:31
and Friday, checking in with real estate agents.
24:33
I had done that for years
24:34
and seemed like everybody was doing that.
24:36
I needed something different
24:37
and I wanted to find a way that I could work with
24:40
the agents that I want to work with.
24:42
I wanted to find a way that I could have a captive audience
24:45
every month, every couple of weeks
24:46
where I could find agents that were like-minded
24:48
and that wanted to work with me as well.
24:50
So it's probably brought in, I'm just guessing here,
24:52
but it's probably brought on in the three years I've been
24:55
back with the program, it's probably brought on.
24:58
I'd probably say about $40 million in volume since then, right?
25:02
And it's led us some massive relationships
25:05
and I wouldn't be able to do those things
25:06
without this program.
25:08
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25:11
are so incredibly valuable for all of us.
25:13
I get upset if I miss it on a Friday.
25:15
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25:18
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25:20
where we help coach each other.
25:21
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25:23
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25:25
Are you ready to stop chasing
25:26
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25:29
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25:31
or hit the link in the show notes.
25:32
Now back to our show.
25:34
When I think about like-
25:35
when you're talking about the retail loan officer,
25:37
I've wrote down set the frame and I'm glad
25:40
that you brought up the referral partner situation
25:42
because I agree that there's a lot more opportunity
25:45
to edify that referral partner situation.
25:47
Both on by the way, and I'm sure you know this too,
25:50
is the source of the referral to edify you
25:53
as the recipient, right?
25:54
Loan Officer, as that handoff is taking place.
25:57
It's a two-way street there for sure to create
26:00
a more symbiotic relationship there.
26:02
So I'm glad you said that.
26:03
After that first call, CC that partner,
26:06
keep them involved.
26:07
The number one complaint we hear from realtors,
26:09
they never feel like they know what's going on
26:11
with something borrowed that they've handed off,
26:14
a buyer that they've handed off,
26:15
or then once they actually get into process
26:16
that's status of that file, right?
26:18
So just keep them looped in from the very beginning
26:20
as soon as you get off the phone, send an email
26:22
to the customer saying,
26:23
hey, it was so great to talk with you.
26:24
I'm super excited.
26:25
We're gonna get you the perfect loan.
26:27
I've got Joe, who already is gonna meet CC in here.
26:29
Like he's asking to make sure you're in the perfect home.
26:31
Like we're so excited to partner together
26:33
and make sure that we get this cross-align for you.
26:35
It's not complicated, it's not rocket science,
26:37
but it goes so, so far with those partners.
26:39
It does, and I've always thought about this of like,
26:42
I've always used the word of like architecting this process.
26:46
Like you think about going to a very fine dining restaurant,
26:48
like a Michelin star restaurant, right?
26:51
For those that have been there,
26:53
it's different.
26:54
You can actually, there's a Michelin star restaurant
26:56
that I read about and heard about on a podcast
26:59
that's in Japan and it only seats like 10 people
27:02
and it's just tiny little hole in the wall.
27:03
But it's the quality, I know, it's crazy.
27:05
It's a sushi place and it's the quality of the sushi.
27:08
It's only open for like four hours a day,
27:11
but it's crazy, right?
27:12
But why it got the Michelin star is the attention
27:16
to, yes, the quality of the fish,
27:18
but really the attention to detail
27:21
and the almost level of art that goes into the sushi dishes
27:27
that they create.
27:28
And so I think of also like Ritz Carlton
27:30
and other traditional exact,
27:31
and it always befuddles me,
27:34
and I remember when I was an originator,
27:35
I definitely felt that I was conscious of this
27:38
and always tried to not only edify the referral partner,
27:41
but I think about framing again,
27:43
you've got to set the frame and you've got to architecture
27:46
this process, like you've probably had this experience as well,
27:49
like so often today, our consumer experience is lousy,
27:54
where we go to different places, the doctor,
27:56
the whatever, dentists seem to be a little bit better
28:00
but the average consumer experience is average, right?
28:04
And it's so easy to stand out
28:07
if you would just put some structure and some format
28:10
into that first engagement, even pre-engagement
28:14
and then that first engagement.
28:15
Yeah, well, and I think, you know,
28:17
because that is the keyword, right?
28:18
It's like structure, we like to use the word systems a lot.
28:21
I think a lot of loan officers,
28:21
they feel like that's taking something away
28:23
from what makes them unique, right?
28:25
It's like, well, I'm not a cookie cutter loan officer.
28:27
We're not asking you to be.
28:28
Yeah.
28:29
Like, you can't tell me that any star quarterback
28:32
in the NFL is exactly the same as another quarterback
28:35
and yet they've all used playbooks
28:37
and operate within systems, right?
28:39
They're personality, they're unique skill sets,
28:41
what they're best at, still absolutely shines through
28:44
and yet they can still wear the teen colors,
28:46
abide by the playbook, call the plays,
28:48
you know what I mean?
28:49
Yeah.
28:50
This is, you know, we can do this.
28:51
Well, it reminds me of like, you know, the process
28:53
and, you know, what is your process
28:54
and you have a process, you, it just may be terrible.
28:58
You know what I mean?
28:59
So how consciously have you thought about the process?
29:02
Cause you have one.
29:03
That's, that's, I'm a believer
29:06
and I think of CS Lewis, right?
29:07
He said we're all theologians.
29:08
It's a question of whether or not
29:09
you're a good one or a bad one.
29:10
That's how I said, yeah.
29:12
I like that.
29:13
I want to go back to, again, this, this, this dance
29:15
between Consumer Direct and Retail
29:16
because, you know, you and I both know
29:18
there's, there's, there's people out there
29:21
that have this lead opt-in process,
29:25
outforms, for example.
29:27
And you know, you see lending trees, the classic is good.
29:29
You've seen the forms, which is the questions
29:31
and it's, it's slide slide.
29:33
It's another question, another question.
29:35
And that whole, do you think that is appropriate
29:38
for both Consumer Direct and Retail?
29:40
I'm not sure that I see a reason
29:43
to have that be front and center as a retail loan officer.
29:45
If you're predominantly working off a referred book
29:47
of business, you know, I think the key consideration here
29:52
that a lot of retail loan officers maybe take for granted
29:54
is speed to need, right?
29:57
People just move faster today.
29:59
It's, you know, if by the time that someone's looking
30:02
at a property or even has contracted with a realtor,
30:04
and let's keep in mind, you have to contract
30:06
with a realtor today.
30:07
You gotta be like, it's a much stronger signal of intent
30:10
to proceed now, not six months from now,
30:12
than it's been ever in the history of this business.
30:14
So, so just because it's a one referral, you know,
30:18
if you get a phone call and you can't take it right the second,
30:21
you get a text message or an email, whatever it is,
30:24
you still need to respond immediately,
30:26
even if it's just to say, hey, you know,
30:29
thank you so much for your call or your text,
30:30
email, whatever it is, right?
30:32
You know, I'm currently in a meeting,
30:33
but I'm gonna get back to you at this time.
30:35
I'm looking so forward to speaking with you, right?
30:38
So yeah, I mean, do you need to be redirecting to forms
30:40
and having the customer pre-flow information?
30:42
You can choose to do that.
30:43
I would say be very, like be very honest with yourself
30:48
about whether like to drop off on that.
30:50
And if it's, if it's even like 10%,
30:53
I would seriously consider,
30:54
do you really want to lose 10% of opportunities,
30:57
you know, 10% of opportunities to get that person on the phone?
31:00
Probably not, especially on this market, you know?
31:02
Right.
31:03
Yeah, that's such a good point, by the way,
31:04
when we have this, you know, reduction in transactions,
31:06
every one of these is that much more important.
31:09
Yeah, so we've got to do the best that we can on that.
31:13
That's interesting.
31:13
So you've got to start your first piece of need.
31:14
Directly consumer, there's gonna be more
31:16
of that form filling, if that makes sense.
31:17
Yeah.
31:18
But even still, I mean, I've told people before,
31:20
if I could build a mortgage company today
31:23
and was crafting a digital experience
31:24
that's top of funnel, knowing that I'm driving
31:26
first party traffic, right?
31:27
I have people coming to my website, for example.
31:29
Yeah.
31:30
Honestly, the way that I would build it
31:32
is I would have a chatbot, if you want to call it,
31:35
it's not a bot, it's a chat widget.
31:37
And I would do live direct connections,
31:40
not necessarily with a loan officer,
31:41
but with like an LWA or business development representative
31:43
who is highly trained and can do a soft pre-qualification,
31:48
value presentation, and then transfer to an agent.
31:51
I would just have it.
31:52
So my customers, LWA, they see a human face
31:54
and it's like, hey, walk now,
31:56
and they can choose their preferred channel
31:58
and begin a conversation,
32:00
and then immediately get connected with a loan officer.
32:01
That's how I'd run it, if I was,
32:03
if I was stepping into the business myself.
32:05
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
32:06
I think that's smart.
32:08
Just this morning I was listening
32:09
to a HubSpot conversation about chat widgets,
32:14
if you will, and kind of what's coming around those.
32:17
Once again, the integration between marketing and sales,
32:19
and even when somebody on that widget drops off
32:22
and says they're not ready to do the next step or whatever it is,
32:26
nowadays, you can have technology
32:28
to reroute that back to prospecting
32:30
because they didn't complete the process.
32:32
Well, let's put that back automatically
32:33
into that prospecting workflow.
32:35
Yeah, love that, really smart.
32:38
Think about it this way,
32:38
because we've touched on this idea
32:40
of like integrating sales marketing
32:42
more closely and mortgage.
32:44
I think the primary reason why to do so
32:47
is think about marketing and many other industries, right?
32:51
You're marketing the specific features of a product.
32:53
What's the product in mortgage?
32:55
You don't know until you've assessed
32:56
that cost-married conversation
32:58
and already have them moving in process, right?
33:00
Until you've done this sort of discovery process
33:02
to identify what's gonna be best for them.
33:04
So this idea that you can steal the playbooks, right?
33:08
That are designed by other companies
33:10
to market products with defined features,
33:13
just simply doesn't apply to our business.
33:15
What you need to market is what ultimately converts
33:18
in a sales conversation.
33:19
So I would highly recommend
33:21
if you don't know what you should be marketing,
33:23
just think back to the last thing you said
33:25
that really clearly changed the mindset of a borrower, right?
33:29
And when they were like, oh, yeah, 100%, I'm doing that.
33:32
Like I'm gonna work with you
33:34
and I'm not gonna talk to anyone else at this point.
33:35
I'm in, take that thing and put it in your marketing.
33:38
Like what sells is what markets in our business?
33:41
Does that make sense?
33:42
Yeah, no, that's very smart.
33:44
I like that.
33:45
Okay, cool.
33:46
So let's pivot for a second.
33:46
You are also a part of a soon to be published book
33:51
in the rethink everything series.
33:53
What do you wanna tell us about that?
33:54
What are we rethinking now with the whole?
33:57
And so we're gonna, like, rethought everything.
34:01
Yeah, right.
34:02
Kyle and the team are just cranking their bushes.
34:04
I mean, awesome.
34:05
But yeah, this time we're rethinking networking.
34:07
That's what we're rethinking.
34:09
So why is that of particular interest to you?
34:12
Yeah.
34:13
So I think the reason why I was approached
34:16
to be a part of this book is because, two things.
34:20
First and foremost, you know,
34:22
there's probably a lot of people in your audience
34:24
who've heard of my dad, who've heard the familiar name.
34:26
It's been around for 42 years.
34:28
He's been around our business for 30 years.
34:29
He won every award you can think of,
34:31
spoken on every stage, you know,
34:32
worked with all the logos, all the people.
34:34
He's tried over a million and a half loan officers, right?
34:36
Like he walks with a large shadow.
34:39
Okay.
34:41
And so myself stepping into this business,
34:43
this sort of family business, you know.
34:45
It's been a question of like how exactly without, you know,
34:49
like while celebrating this incredible legacy
34:51
that he's still living and building,
34:53
how do I in some way step out from that shadow
34:55
and begin to find my own voice
34:56
and you know what I mean, find my own crew
34:58
and all these other things.
35:00
And so I think people have seen me do that over the years.
35:02
And I think that's part of the reason why I was asked
35:04
to participate in this book is because there might be
35:06
other people feel kind of the same way.
35:07
And who knows what that shadow is?
35:09
You know, maybe it's father figure.
35:09
There's a lot of people in the business
35:10
who come in from family, you know.
35:12
But, you know, it could just be other influencers
35:16
in the space, your competitors in your local market.
35:18
You know, you just feel like you can't figure out
35:19
how to carve out your own space.
35:21
Well, I tried to share a playbook
35:23
to help people understand how they can do that
35:25
and to give them the courage to try and do so.
35:27
The second reason would just be because I have accumulated
35:29
a decent following on LinkedIn
35:30
and have a few tricks up my sleeve for how to do that.
35:33
And to do it in a way that really is driven
35:36
around authentic connection and not just sort of trying
35:39
to build a following for building a following sake.
35:42
Cause that really doesn't, I'm assuming if you're
35:45
in this business, you're not monetizing your views.
35:47
Otherwise, you just become an influencer, right?
35:49
Why sell loans anymore?
35:50
So for those of us who aren't making money off
35:54
of millions of clicks, you know, having a following
35:57
on social only has limited value.
35:59
What really has value is real connections
36:01
that you can call on and, you know what I mean?
36:03
That can actually drive your business forward.
36:05
Yeah, so what specifically is your chapter
36:07
about what can people look forward to?
36:09
Yeah, so I give basically a couple of principles,
36:12
basically working towards the thesis
36:14
that what you really need is not a following
36:15
but actually an engaged network.
36:17
So the first principle that I, and these are principles
36:20
that I live by, right?
36:21
But a couple of years ago, I did exactly
36:23
what the book title is, right?
36:25
I rethought, why am I on LinkedIn?
36:27
Why am I saying out connection requests?
36:29
Why am I like going to conferences?
36:30
They're not going to conferences.
36:31
What's the whole point of this networking thing
36:33
that I'm kind of got one foot in and one foot out, right?
36:35
And ultimately what I realized was that
36:37
the first thing that I needed my network to be
36:39
was to give me intelligence.
36:41
Does that make sense?
36:42
And so that shifted my perspective
36:44
from I just need to connect with anyone and everyone
36:47
and build up this audience
36:49
that I don't even really necessarily know what to do with.
36:51
To instead, who are the type of people
36:54
that I can serve and have value to
36:56
and to go out and define those people,
36:58
build a relationship with them
36:59
and then what naturally happens is conversation
37:01
through that conversation, you get intelligence, right?
37:04
You learn who's hiring, who's making a change in product,
37:08
who's moved to a new company,
37:10
who's exploiting a new market opportunity,
37:12
like all of these things that are incredibly valuable
37:14
for our business.
37:15
And for you, that might be something different, right?
37:17
Like for the local loan officers,
37:19
what's happening in your local market
37:21
in terms of like referral partners?
37:23
Is there a new builder who's come in town
37:24
that you can build a relationship with?
37:26
Is there a CPA who's looking for a new loan officer
37:29
to partner with?
37:30
Yeah, you name it.
37:31
Is there a brokerage that had a falling out
37:34
with a loan officer who was doing a lot of business with them
37:35
and you have an opportunity to step in
37:37
and snap up some of that business?
37:39
So that was the first principle.
37:40
It's like, I like that.
37:42
Get intelligence from your network.
37:43
The second thing is recognizing that ultimately
37:45
you can differentiate yourself by actually paying attention
37:49
to what other people say
37:50
and worrying less about what you're trying to say on social.
37:53
Does that make sense?
37:54
So really simple, a couple of strategies here.
37:57
But the first and foremost thing I would say is ultimately,
38:02
so take AI, right?
38:03
We've been sort of dancing around like AI
38:05
and his applications today.
38:06
Most people see AI when it comes to the social media,
38:09
networking, building following all you name it,
38:12
they see AI is like an escape hatch, if you will,
38:15
to avoid having to do the work,
38:17
to create content, to be able to put content out
38:20
on at least a daily, if not weekly basis, right?
38:22
I don't think that's the best use of AI.
38:24
I honestly think that the best use of AI
38:26
is to be able to better identify who you can be prospecting
38:31
and then to leverage its power for it to do the homework for you
38:35
so that you can actually learn who it is
38:36
that you wanna be doing business with
38:38
or doing more business with.
38:40
Does that make sense?
38:41
And so once you are able to identify the right people
38:43
that you should be listening to online,
38:45
and then you can even ingest large amounts of their posts
38:47
at one time, it allows you to be able to strategically
38:50
leave a comment, a reaction, to send a message.
38:54
Like the way that I run my social now, if you will,
38:58
is I actually have spreadsheet after spreadsheet
39:02
of the type of people that I know I wanna add value to,
39:05
and I do a sort of how, when was the last time I actually,
39:09
like they put out a post and I was able to engage with it,
39:12
and I reverse filter it, does that make sense?
39:14
To find people why it's been the longest amount of time
39:17
since I had engaged with them,
39:18
and I checked their profiles to see what they're up to,
39:21
and I leave a thoughtful comment or send a message saying,
39:23
hey, I saw that you pushed about this,
39:24
that remind me of this, I wanna connect you with this person,
39:26
and just add value in whatever way I can.
39:28
I can honestly tell you that's done so much more for me
39:31
than when I was trying to post every single day
39:33
and sort of keep up with the Joneses, if you will,
39:35
if you will, of social media.
39:37
So that's the second principle,
39:39
and the third, I will leave for anyone who wants to read the book.
39:41
There you go, I like it, a little trailer, teaser.
39:46
Yeah, and I'm glad you brought up the digital social thing
39:48
because networking, of course, implies not only in person,
39:52
but online as well.
39:54
And sorry, I should clarify, I was sort of,
39:56
I was told by the powers that be,
39:58
that there was plenty of content in the book already
40:00
on how to network in person,
40:02
and they really wanted more perspectives
40:03
on how to network online.
40:04
But I really do think that the majority,
40:06
your networking in person is gonna be that much more effective
40:08
if you've actually already made it content online.
40:10
Yeah, so I think it's a great starting point,
40:13
and it's budget friendly, if you will.
40:15
You don't have to spend a lot of money going all over the place
40:17
or hosting your own events,
40:18
although hosting your own events can be an amazing strategy
40:21
for building and growing your network.
40:22
I know, Jeff, you've got the playbook on that.
40:25
Oh, yes, thank you very much.
40:28
That is so true.
40:29
And I always say, let the online drive the offline, right?
40:32
And I love your strategy about being smart and intelligent
40:34
with how, because I mean, I can definitely relate to,
40:37
it's Wednesday, boy, I gotta get up and post something,
40:41
I gotta connect with people,
40:43
and use a rainly throwing crap against the wall.
40:45
Well, and here's the thing,
40:47
this is one of the things I point out in the chapter.
40:48
It dawned on me when I was posting a lot,
40:51
that that was, I was most exposed to being controlled
40:56
by whatever the algorithm wanted to show today,
41:00
when I was deciding that I was gonna build my network
41:03
by posting my own content, right?
41:05
It controls who sees your content when you post.
41:08
What it does not control is who's content you choose
41:11
to go out and see and engage with.
41:13
Does that make sense?
41:13
Yeah, of course, yeah.
41:14
It doesn't handcuff you to go visit, yeah.
41:18
Yeah, there's no way they can control it.
41:19
And so, I think if you're,
41:21
if you leverage tools like AI to identify who it is
41:24
that you really do wanna be connected with,
41:25
engaging with online,
41:27
and then you just do the work to go out and engage,
41:30
it's sort of an algorithm proof way to go about
41:33
growing your business and building more real connections
41:36
that you can then follow up with in person,
41:39
when you decide to host that event
41:40
or go to that conference or whatever it is.
41:42
This is more a question for me, I'm curious,
41:44
because you do put a lot of content on LinkedIn writing,
41:48
you've got 10,000 plus followers.
41:50
How do you, or should by the way,
41:53
your tagline on LinkedIn is actually written by a human?
41:55
Well, I'm wondering where I'm gonna make an assumption here,
42:00
but where and how do you kind of close out on this?
42:03
Where and how do you incorporate AI in your writing,
42:08
for example, on LinkedIn in some of the content you're posting?
42:10
Yeah, I let it do you like a typo grammar check
42:16
at the end and that's it.
42:17
And honestly, I'm debating not even doing that,
42:21
moving forward to be honest.
42:23
Right.
42:24
I think there is a genuine,
42:26
I think it would be strategic to assume
42:28
that the algorithms will be able to detect AI generated
42:32
and AI edited content better, faster, right?
42:37
And so there's sort of a long-term play,
42:39
I think that would actually be very wise for a lot of people
42:41
who are serious about posting on LinkedIn
42:44
or any other content platform for that matter
42:47
to seriously keep their content close at hand
42:48
and not expose it to too much AI.
42:51
Interesting.
42:52
Do you use AI as a kind of a brainstorming partner?
42:57
I use it as a research tool.
42:58
Research tool.
42:59
I appreciate that secondary follow
43:01
because I should have said that, yeah, up front.
43:02
Yeah, I love to use it for research,
43:04
but you do have to treat it like interns, if that makes sense.
43:07
You have to, it's trust but verify, right?
43:10
You absolutely have to verify.
43:12
Yeah, very interesting, okay, cool.
43:14
All right, well, listen,
43:15
30 years mortgage champions, congratulations to you
43:18
and your dad and the whole team out there.
43:20
You guys obviously made a huge impact in the industry.
43:23
We're closing out here.
43:24
It is September, 2025.
43:28
We're heading into the end of 25 and into 26.
43:31
What are you optimistic about for 2026?
43:34
Everything.
43:35
Everything.
43:36
You're an optimist.
43:37
Well, I mean, look, rates are gonna come down
43:42
and that don't make that your saving grace,
43:44
but the reality is, lower rates is not necessarily
43:48
guaranteeing more business.
43:49
What it does is it brings borrowers back into the market
43:51
and you've seen uptick in activity, right?
43:53
So if you're a loan officer or you're a lender listening
43:55
to this, what you need to prepare for
43:58
is the ability to be able to effectively capture
44:01
more borrower activity, that makes sense.
44:03
So, but that's good for our business.
44:05
Ultimately, more activity is good for our business.
44:07
So that's a huge thing to be excited about in 2026.
44:10
I also think there's gonna be a little bit of
44:14
like necessary bursting of the bubble
44:17
on some of the AI enthusiasm and I think that's good, right?
44:21
The reality is nine out of 10 AI startups fail right now.
44:26
So the ROI is simply not there in many of its applications.
44:30
And so what I think lenders and vendors
44:32
who are supporting lenders are going to do
44:35
is they're gonna be a lot less generic
44:36
in their approach to AI and they're gonna be much
44:38
more strategic.
44:39
So let's solve this huge problem.
44:40
Let's like focus on this tiny little one.
44:43
Make sure that we can be cost efficient
44:45
and then let's deploy that and then iterate from there.
44:48
Like I think that's gonna be much more productive
44:50
for the industry than some of the sort of sweeping claims
44:53
and big picture ideas that we have out there right now
44:56
that's kind of the wildest of AI.
44:57
So that plus some younger loan officers
44:59
getting into the business, like I think we have nothing
45:01
but you know, we should have nothing but enthusiasm
45:04
for this industry in my opinion.
45:05
Yeah, that's good to hear.
45:07
New blood is the life blood.
45:08
Well, listen, it's not enough of it
45:10
but we're seeing more hiring on that front
45:12
which is good, you know?
45:13
Yeah.
45:15
Well, we need to create a compelling case,
45:17
you know, use case for them to consider this as a career.
45:20
100%?
45:21
Yeah, 100%.
45:22
That's what's missing a little bit is like
45:23
a lot of that same playbook that is still there
45:25
that I got which is here's your business cards
45:27
go get some realtors, you know?
45:29
But think about this though.
45:30
Think about the impact of AI on industries
45:32
like traditional knowledge work or even like Silicon Valley
45:35
like a lot of the careers that these current college kids
45:39
were going into school for.
45:41
They're sort of seeing in real time.
45:43
I don't know if I'm going to be able to get a job, right?
45:45
Like there's so much more efficiency with developers now.
45:47
Like why would they hire some junior developer to do code
45:50
when it's like they can have a senior
45:51
to do vibe coding and you had to be in like it's done.
45:54
So you will have people who will be in this like
45:56
I need to find a job that they can make a little bit more money
45:59
like what I was expecting to make for having on a school.
46:01
Orch is an amazing opportunity for this individual.
46:04
To your point though, we just got to get the message out.
46:06
Well said, well said.
46:07
All right, for people who want to connect with you,
46:09
we'll put the links in the show notes.
46:10
But what is the best place for them to connect with you?
46:12
Mortgage champions dot com or just shoot me a message on LinkedIn.
46:15
I pretty much live on there.
46:16
So we'd love to connect.
46:17
All right, we'll link that up in the show notes.
46:18
Jake so much.
46:19
Thank you for your time.
46:20
Appreciate it.
46:21
Thank you, Jeff.
46:21
Appreciate you, man.
46:22
And like I said, I've been listening for a long time
46:24
and I feel like you're one of the OGs of mortgage podcasting.
46:29
And so it's just such an honor to be here with you
46:30
and share some tips.
46:31
I hope it's helpful for your audience.
46:33
I appreciate you being here as well.
46:34
You bring a lot of value to our community
46:35
and hopefully to the listeners today.
46:37
So listeners, you know what to do if you like this episode?
46:39
Go follow Jake on LinkedIn.
46:41
And by the way, if you're looking to improve your sales
46:44
and or marketing, check the link for mortgage champions
46:47
and learn more over there.
46:49
Everybody, we'll see you on the next one.
46:51
Bye for now.
46:51
Okay, that's it for today's episode.
46:53
Before we wrap up, I just wanted to remind you
46:55
about my agent classes, your proven system
46:58
to double your agent referrals in just 90 days.
47:01
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47:03
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47:06
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47:17
So if you're ready to take control of your agent referrals
47:19
and grow your income, visit mortgagemarketing.pro
47:22
or check the link in the show notes and why you're there.
47:24
Don't forget to check out the success stories
47:26
from other mortgage pros who've already seen
47:28
incredible results.
47:29
Thanks for listening and I'll see you.
47:30
On the next episode.