Latest / Thrive A/F (After Forty) / Thriving & Diving with Doug Sarmousakis | Thrive A/F Ep. 11

Transcript

Thriving & Diving with Doug Sarmousakis | Thrive A/F Ep. 11 · Thrive A/F (After Forty)

• Doug: And I some then I looked down in between my legs and I see that a nose of a shark. in between my legs, like very close to my happy place. And and I go, holy crap. And I punch the the shark in the in the in the nose. and he takes off. And I'm thinking, wow. And I thought I was bit Keith: Hello and welcome to the Thrive After 40 podcast. This is episode 11. I'm Keith Calleja I am one of the podcast hosts. I'm in Atlanta, Georgia, and I'm one of the owners of CrossFit Terminus. And I am here with two friends, one an old friend, one a new friend. So my co-host Lou. Lou, say hello to everybody. Lou Fratto: Hi, I'm Lou Fratto. I'm a physical therapist, owner of Delray Care Physical Therapy in Delray Beach, Florida, and a active longevity specialist. So hello everybody. Keith: Great. You want to introduce our guest? Lou Fratto: Yeah. but first I I wanna thank I wanna thank you, Doug, for just everything you've done for me over the years, but especially lately with these two projects. I mean, you you are one of the, if not the busiest person I know, literally. And you know, you you've took time out of your busy schedule to help me with the book. You're one of my interviewees in the book. and then once again, you know, this morning you've carved out time when you really don't have time and people can see in the window behind me and then where Doug is it's dark. I mean this is early and I really appreciate it for you taking time to do this. But as an introduction I would say you are first and foremost a father and a husband. Let's see what else you're a successful businessman. You're an expert boater and fisherman you're a longtime surfer and athlete and you're You're forever and always an adventurer, and you're one of my closest friends on the planet. Everybody, this is Doug Sarmusakis. Doug: Wow. Wow. You can't make me cry this early in the morning. Jeez, that was nice, Lou. Keith: I'm Doug Sarah Basakis got disconnected. Doug: So thank you, Lou, I appreciate that. That's very nice of you. But you made me cry. and it's and you made me cry and the Keith: Yeah, and nice to meet you, Doug. Lou Fratto: Only the truth, man. Doug: sun the sun isn't even up. Lou Fratto: It's only the truth, man. And and honestly, there's more probably that I you know didn't include, but yeah, can you tell a little bit more about yourself or anything to add? Doug: Well, yeah, I mean I you know, I I no I think you I think you nailed it. I think father first was w was what you said and I agree with that. and yeah, I I I have a busy career and a busy life and I I I don't want to miss a minute of it. So I I I'm purposeful in in how I approach things and and that's one of those things that if I can do it, I'll do it and and I'll figure out a way to do it. So and especially for good friends. So all day long, Lou I gotcha. Lou Fratto: Yes. Keith: What great intro. Yeah. And it's nice to meet you, Doug. We haven't met in person or even on Doug: Likewise. Yeah. Keith: on the phone, but heard a lot about you and looking forward to the conversation, kind of digging in and learning more. Doug: Cool. Yeah, I watched that that river trip down the the river in Atlanta and I thought, I could do that. Let's go. Keith: Yeah. Hey man. Likewise, likewise I follow you on Instagram Lou Fratto: Ha ha ha. Keith: and I'm like, okay, when I need to get down there and visit Lou and maybe expense it as a business trip and then spend most of time out on your boat. Doug: Just say the word, man. Open invite. Open invite. Yes. Lou Fratto: Here we go. Into I was afraid of this. Right into the fishing topic. Keith: Yeah. Yeah, welcome to Thrive AF Fishing Edition. Lou Fratto: You know you know what's interesting about fishing, and Doug will tell you this, I am not a fisherman. I was not built for the boat. I mean I'm like, you know, getting seasick if it if the if the clouds roll in. And man Doug has tried really hard to to make me, you know, more of a boater and more of a fisherman. he had his work cut out for him, but but I can talk a bit of fishing. Like with patients and clients, I can talk about fishing because Doug and I talk a lot about it. He's always telling me his stories and he's He's very, you know, Doug, you're an action first kind of guy, but you I have to say, you you you're smart and you stuff you really get into whatever you're doing, like you prepare for it, you know it inside and out. It's not like you're reckless, like you you go into it prepared and like a professional with everything that you do, and so all of his technical aspects that he talks about, over the years I couldn't help but absorb some of it. So I can talk fishing. Doug: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. You're a virtual seaman. Keith: Wow. Lou Fratto: Exact almost. Doug: Can I say that? Can I say that on live broadcast? Keith: Yeah, you know, we've never really talked about this is a family podcast, but Doug: Yeah, Lou Fratto: He may have to cut that. Doug: that's okay. Yeah. Keith: No, we're leaving that in. I was gonna make a joke, but it's probably a little too blue for our audience. But it's about baiting. But yeah, I would Doug: yes. Keith: Yeah, if we start talking about fishing, that's gonna be like i you know, the entire podcast. So it's definitely obviously one of your passions. I I'd like to know just a little bit more about y'all's relationship. Like how did you guys meet? you know, I've known and Lou for a long time, but we haven't been super close since we were in college just because of distance. so how d how did you two jokers meet and what's the story there? Doug: Well, I I Lou Fratto: Go ahead, Doug. Doug: yeah, I can tell you. So, you know, we met, our kids were in in the same school and that's how we initially met. But I can tell you Lou might give me credit for being an action first kind of guy. But the reality is the reason I think we have such a close relationship now is because of you know, early on when we had just met, we were out to dinner one night, we had a few too many cocktails and I had a which is a whole different podcast, a a sort of a near death experience. And I said, Man, I gotta do something, dude. I gotta like, you and he's like, Well, what do you w what do you want to do? I don't know. Somehow running a marathon came up and and I said, Would you be interested? And Lou was like, Fuck yeah. And that really started it. And ever since then I'm like lose my ride or die when it comes to stuff like that. And so for me that that was what solidified our relationship in terms of I said, Man, this guy's gonna be with me for a long time because he's a good dude and and said yes to To an opportunity that I wanted to do. I wanted to do something, and he was like, Let's do it. So yeah, we got up at 4 a.m. and started running. Lou Fratto: Ha ha. Keith: Now that's funny Lou because I did not know that you ran a marathon. Doug: We did a half, sorry. Yeah. Lou Fratto: you're talking me? Yeah. Well Keith: Yeah, Lou. I didn't know. okay. Lou Fratto: it was it yeah, it was actually a half. but Doug: It was a half. Lou Fratto: you know, and that yeah, that turned into an adventure, I would say. And actually, you know, I was thinking about it's like You know, when I think about all the adventures that Doug has done and I think about how many that I've been part of, it's like, well, you know, he's done way more than I've been, you know, that I can chalk up and done myself. But Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: but it's like everything that you do, Doug, you you approach it like an adventure. You make it feel like an adventure. So I mean it can be anything like getting up at four thirty in the morning and, you know, running when when we th we think there's nobody out there and we're on top of the bridge member and we think, wow, we're the only two crazy guys out here, and all of a sudden we hear this, we hear this Doug: Yeah. Keith: somebody pushing the sled. Lou Fratto: and we turn and look across the street and what was his name? Was out there dragging a tire? Yeah Doug: Frank McKinney. Yeah, Frank McKinney. He ultra marathoner. Lou Fratto: And we're like, Keith: Whoa Lou Fratto: I guess we're not that, you know, we're not that tough. Yes, yes. No. No. No. Keith: Was he dragging a tire behind him? and it wasn't because his car broke down, it was part of his training. Doug: yeah. up a bridge. Lou Fratto: And he's a local legend, really, you know, so but Doug: Yeah. Lou Fratto: it was like you know, just stuff like that, Doug, you turn everything into an adventure. But what really I think the first thing that That caught my attention with Doug is we were they invited everybody in the Doug: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: class over to their house, you know, all the kids, parents, and the kids over to their house for a for a party, and just the incredible host that you and your wife were at that party, and really that you are with everything that you guys do. It was amazing. I mean, they went all out for this this party and to get everybody together and have everybody meet. And then me. Being a gator and Doug being a Florida State fan, he had at the next party was a Florida, Florida State game. He had or no, it was actually a Florida game only, and he had gator stuff out. And he even had like a visor that was a gator visor, and I go, Wow, you're a you're a Florida fan? He goes, No, but my wife is. And so he was willing to be a gator for that game, Doug: Mm. Lou Fratto: even though he was a hardcore Florida State fan. I you know what? But this guy is like, you know, he's a dedicated family man too, so that really impressed me. That was awesome. Keith: Yeah, good Doug: Look look I always tell Keith: for you. Doug: you I'm not real smart, but I'm not that dumb either. Keith: It's so funny, just the little things, the Lou Fratto: Exactly. Keith: little commonalities here, because one of my best friends who lives five minutes away from me, Joe Owen, is an F went to FSU. And, you know, we can now sit together and watch a game without too much too much stress. And my wife went to UGA. So I and one of my kids is at UGA. So I don't have a problem, not too much of a problem these days, flying the UGA flag when they're doing good or putting my shirt on. So little things like that. I understand that connection. your kids being in the same school because that's how we've developed a lot of close friendships with people as well. It's funny how that experience is almost it's such a bonding experience for Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: for people. And especially I think, you know, I don't know if this is a hundred percent true or not, but especially for men, it seems like as we get older, those deeper relationships, sometimes they're harder to find and harder to connect with. But it's like at different stages in your life, like when your kids are in school, that's when you seem to form. some bonds like this, which is really cool. so so Doug, you know, I I like I said, I don't know you that well or your background, but you mentioned you had an experience that kind of turned your mindset a little towards I need to do something to, you know, get myself in shape. But did you have an athletic background before that? Like play sports or were you like a gym rat or anything, Doug: Yeah, I played Keith: or was that Doug: Yeah, all the above. I mean I've, you know, played every sport in high school and did get hurt and end up I have a total I have a hemishoulder implant in my right shoulder from playing football. But yeah, surfing. and all every all water sports and you know just my whole life, that's all I know. And definitely was was super active forever, even through injuries. Keith: And then y you mentioned the marathon training is something that kind of came up where you maybe had a like a bit of a mindset shift to say I need to I need to start doing stuff again to get healthy. Had you kind of lapsed in terms of, you know, what you were Doug: Yeah, totally. Keith: doing and your your physical capability. Doug: One thousand percent. I mean it was right at the time my kids were super young. I was super focused on my career, trying to get my career going and started, Keith: Right. Doug: or you know, to the next level and you know, exercise you know, took a took a back seat, one thousand percent. And then one day I was like, Yeah, I gotta I gotta change that and and then we did. We we we did zero zero to half marathon in thirteen weeks, right Lou? Wasn't that thirteen weeks? Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, and and one one other detail that you left out is before we started training that weekend, Doug is at a was it a lacrosse game or a soccer game, but he's watching he's watching his kids and he trips over I don't know, was it like a one of Doug: Yeah. Lou Fratto: those chains that block cars from going in? And he sprains the heck Doug: Something. Lou Fratto: out of his ankle. I mean like a bad sprain. Right? Doug: yeah. Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. that's funny. yeah. Lou Fratto: It was bad and I you know, the physical therapist in me is like, you know, dude, you really we should let's just put this off, we'll do it next season or what he's like, in no way. So we I mean he trained with a really badly sprained ankle. Doug: Yeah. I forgot all about that. Keith: Okay, now that's funny because Lou is Doug: That's true. Keith: Yeah, Lou Lou just wrote like a a three page series Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: about recovery and we just published the second one. And you know, part of that is listen to your body. But it sounds like there's a time and a place for everything that can be a little bit flexible. I think it's easier to recover a little Doug: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: bit when you're younger too. I don't know when you all Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: what age you all were when you did that, but I know I sprained my ankle not too long ago on a run and the recovery was not like it was when I was in my twenties. But so can I guess kudos. Doug: Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Doug: We we didn't set it any records, but we got it done. Lou Fratto: Right. And and Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: that sh another fact about it is that was the year that it was pretty hot and the Palm Beach Marathon you know organization or whatever, they ran out of of water on the course, remember? So we had to power through and us us being novices, we didn't Doug: Yep. Yeah. yeah, I do remember. yeah. Keith: Great planning. Lou Fratto: expect that, so we didn't have our own water and so we had to just power through without any water too. Keith: Yeah, train for anything, train for any eventuality. So y I mean, you Doug: Yeah, for sure. Keith: obviously have a love for the outdoors. we already talked about fishing, but there are are there other s outdoor sports, surfing you mentioned, a lot of water sports. Do you do anything else like hiking or camping or are you a full spectrum kind of outdoorsman? Doug: Well Yeah, I'll do all of that. Lou is part of our our camping group. We do a camping trip once a year and and I'll do anything I outdoor, whether it's kayaking, I obviously diving, which we're gonna talk about today. And surfing is my is really has been my passion my whole life. And now that I have one son who's an avid fisherman, I still fish a lot and one son who's an avid surfer, I still wanna surf and so that's what keeps me involved in in those sports and you know that's just part and parcel of of who I am because of now my kids are are into it. So whatever they're into, I'm Keith: Yeah. Doug: I'm down. Keith: Yeah, that's awesome. So what kind of training have you kind of maintained since you started on that route towards the half marathon and what do you do now to kind of keep in shape to make sure that you can do all these things with your kids and and the things that you enjoy? Doug: Yeah, so for me it it's j it does generally focus around events, you know, like going on a surf trip with my son and I I think Lou talked about it. I'll I'll train for six or eight weeks in the pool just paddling every day. just to get my cardio up, get my shoulders in shape enough to be able to paddle, you know, out in the Pacific Ocean and Costa Rica or El Salvador or Nicaragua, wherever we are, and you know, be able to still function and and and and and and ha still have a good time, be safe and and enjoy the time with with my son. So you know it I I like having something to shoot for and it just makes it easier for me. So but in in when I don't have something you know and and with work I've been like I you know I got into yoga and and I I'm trying all s all sorts of different things to try to stay healthy. And I'm not interested in lifting heavy weights anymore, doing any of that stuff. I'm more about the stretching and you know, strength training, but not not not heavy weight training. And so everything I do at the gym now is focused around that. Keith: Very cool. Do you guys work out together, Lou? You and Doug? Or Lou Fratto: sometimes, especially if we're both doing an event together and and actually if we got this tough mudder that that's coming up and I just need to get my act together and and hook up with with Doug. i again it has to for us to get together it's gotta be super early. and s yeah, so we just gotta get get that going Doug: It'll be early. That's all right. Hey. Lou Fratto: again. Doug: Hey, by the way, I didn't tell you, but I'm you might have signed up for something else in January before the tough mudder. Lou Fratto: Huh, nice. Doug: I I talked to Granty last night. He wants to run the Everglades half marathon in on January twenty fourth. And guess what? I didn't say no. No. So Lou Fratto: N nice. I didn't think you would. d do you have to s do you have to sidestep alligators down there? Doug: it looks pretty cool. I looked at the course last night and I thought, that looks like a fun that would be a fun run. You would enjoy it, Lou. You're in. Lou Fratto: Thank you, I appreciate that. Keith: Look at that. And you can't say no because it's happened live on the podcast. So pretty much you're it. I'm Lou Fratto: man. Doug: Exactly. Keith: just glad you didn't ask me to do it. Lou Fratto: You know, that brings up a great Doug: Come on, dog, I got two I got two bad knees. Let's do it. Lou Fratto: That that brings up a great topic, Doug. I have never known you to say no. Like I mean, I've never seen you say no to somebody asking you to do whether it's to help them or to to do like a cr adventure or challenge yourself. Were you I never asked you this, were you born that way or did something or a person in your life Keith: happened to you. Lou Fratto: mentor? Were you lucky enough to be born that way? Doug: Podcast isn't long enough for that. so I I have to say I think people have been telling me that my whole life. I'm I'm all in. And I I've kind of always been like that. I think you can go pretty far back and see that that generally when I do something I I become all in and it's just I compartmentalize it that in that way and that's just kinda who I am. and I don't I don't have any regrets about it. I I actually like that. I I'm happy that I'm I'm like that because I I feel like, man, we're here, let's do it. Right? That's that's that's my mindset for sure. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, there's no Keith: What a great Lou Fratto: doubt. Keith: Yeah. And I mean like that's a s that's not I don't know. It doesn't that's not a natural state of mind for a lot of people. you know, Lou, I think on one of our previous episodes, you talked about one of your patients who had to make a very conscious decision to say yes to social interaction because of an experience they had where they were, you know, having trouble. I think it was in our social connections episode. And so I think for a lot of people, I don't know, it's just difficult to dive into something like that, Doug, and be fully committed and say yes to all those opportunities. So I mean, that's a really interesting and unique trait. I'm sure it's opened up a lot of cool opportunities for you to just have that kind of mindset where you're willing to go and and put yourself all into those activities. Doug: Yeah, it's the truth. And I I I mean I you hear people say it all the time at the end, you don't want to say, I wish I had, or I you know, I wish I had done this or I wish I had tried that when I was younger. my thought is we're here, let's do it. Keith: Yeah, indeed. Very cool. Lou Fratto: Was there ever one of those adventures that or any adventure that you've been on or been engaged with at where you thought to yourself, maybe this wasn't such a great idea? Doug: No. No, because even if it doesn't work out right, like I I look at it and say, Th I'll take something good out of it. Like that's Lou Fratto: Right. Doug: yeah, you you you that's that's also a mindset and I think that is one of my strengths in that whatever it is, I'll figure out a way to make it okay. Lou Fratto: Beautiful. Even Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: even fighting a shark, can you tell us about that? That's that's Keith: Yeah, we need to hear this story. Because we've built this Doug: yeah. Keith: thing up. It's like I mean, in my mind, this is a this is an epic Doug: So it you know well Keith: battle. So Doug: It's it's it it's it's it was sort of a perfect storm because it was one of those days that, you know, I've been diving for a long time. My kids have been diving for a long time. we're super safe. We you know, I see sharks all the time, never afraid of them. I follow them, I watch them, and I'm no issues with them ever. Yes, they'll come after your fish and yes, they'll, you know, look at you or come towards you. but they're you know, it's usually pretty clear water where we dive, so you know, you have good visuals on all all the time. I mean I've been bitten by moray eel, I've been bitten by a trigger fish on the ear, and you know, I you know, but I've had barracuda come close. But sharks are generally I I don't fear them at all. and this particular dive it was before lobster season and Granty and I wanted to test out we hadn't dove since last year lobster season. He was away at school. I was busy at work. And it's been almost a year since we dove. So I said, let's let's let's jump in and we'll we'll bring a spear, obviously, because we can't lobster, but there's some fish that we can shoot if we if the opportunity presents itself. And we went in, it was probably I think eighty five foot of water, and we were looking for lobsters to kind of scout before lobster season and to test our equipment, make sure everything was functioning properly. And you know, it was super casual, easy dive. And we get de we get down, well for before that actually, on deck, we realized we had four tanks and one of the tanks, when I had him test the equipment in the pool, I don't know if he left it on a little bit, but one of the tanks was almost completely empty. So we were like, all right, we're gonna be limited to one tank here, dive. So let's just make the most of it. And so we jump in, eighty five foot, we're it's a beautiful day, beautiful water, crystal clear water. And Granty sees a a good size hogfish and he he goes over and he shoots it and what I do is I kind of I sit back and I follow and just make sure everybody's safe, everybody's good. Like I prefer them to shoot and do all the harvesting. and I like to watch. I mean that's that's why I'm there. And we he shot this this hogfish and as he's taking the hogfish off of the spear, there's a there's a there's a sh there's a like a ba essentially a barb, but you have to kind of close the barb to pull the fish out of the out of the fish, and then you put it on a hook which you attach to your to your hip, essentially. Well, he struggled to get this f was struggling to get this fish off. As he's struggling to get this fish off, a giant moray eel comes out of a hole, like six foot legit green, big green moray eel comes out of the hole and bites the fish in the belly. I should have sent you a picture of it. and bites the fish in the belly. And so that causes the fish to now not only be bleeding from his head, from the from the from the from the spear but now he's bleeding from his belly and his entrails essentially coming out. So there's a little bit of a trail in the water. He brings the fish over to me and I keep the hook because I'd rather I'd rather, you know, be the one that's in danger, I guess, if if something were to happen. And he gives me the fish, I put it on my hook, and then he looks at me and he gives me the like he's out of air. He shows me his regulator I'm like, but I still had a bunch of air left. And he was just pointing up. He's like, hey, I'm I'm gonna go up. And I go, okay, I gave him a thumbs up. And so now I'm down there by myself with a with the flag and my son is I watch him ascend, so I'm looking up, I'm watching him ascend. He gets safely up, he does his safety stop at two minute at twenty feet, and I continued to you know to to to s kind of search around. There was a big he shot a big hogfish. I wanted to try to get one more. So I'm actually probably about six or seven feet above the the the bottom and I'm just kind of cruising along and I have my eye on this hogfish and I see him and I start to go over to him and I see this shark kind of p pass in front of me and just kept going. I didn't pay any attention to it. I saw him, you know, just kind of keep heading, I think it he was probably heading west because I was heading north. And and I'm focused on this fish and the next thing I know is I I feel something bump my leg. And I'm like and I my immediate thought now I'm by myself, which you shouldn't never dive by yourself. but it was one of those situations Lou Fratto: Bad. Doug: where yeah it's not it wasn't smart. but you know Lou Fratto: You needed mister Safety there. Doug: Yeah. Well, yeah, you know, but it it was definitely one of those decisions Lou Fratto: Doug. Doug: that yeah. yeah, so yeah. Yeah. Keith: Little Lou on your shoulder. What are you doing, man? Lou Fratto: Keep going. Yeah. Doug: Yeah. So I end up I I was sort of disoriented for a second. I'm like, wait a second, what just grab my leg? And and and I didn't wear a wetsuit 'cause it was middle summer, and usually I have a wetsuit on. and it protects you from the reef and it keeps you keeps you warm. But it was, you know, the water was eighty degrees or whatever it was. And I just didn't dive with a wetsuit that day. And so I had a basically an exposed calf and I look and I I'm like I'm thinking, did Granty come back down and was tapping me to let me know that he was back? And I some then I looked down in between my legs and I see that a nose of a shark. in between my legs, like very close to my happy place. And and I go, holy crap. And I punch the the shark in the in the in the nose. and he takes off. And I'm thinking, wow. And I thought I was bit because underwater with adrenaline, you don't know what what's happening. And I kept looking, Keith: Sure. Doug: I'm I'm looking for a trail blood shows up green in the water. And I'm looking for this trail of green. And I'm like, I don't I don't see any blood and I'm looking, I'm and I'm th I'm convinced that I'm bit. And I'm like, holy shit, holy shit. So now I'm like, I gotta get to the surface because I thought I was bit. And as I'm starting to ascend, this shark turns turns around and literally comes right towards my belly, which was where the the fish was, was essentially in my in my it the and I keep it close to my close to me to event to prevent sharks from coming in. too close. And I I poked him with my spear. I just bumped him on the head. And and he turned and and took took off and he came right back. And I don't necessarily endorse this, but on the third time I I shot him in the head. And at the third time he came Keith: Yeah. Doug: he came in on me. I shot him in the head right right underneath the eye. And I can picture it. I can still s I can still see the shaft. The problem with that is is that my my spear gun has a tether attached to it so you don't lose your spear. Now, some people have a long reel where you can let you can let the the line out and then eventually pull the fish in or reel the fish in essentially. I had about eight foot of of tether on mine because we're usually shooting hogfish and fish that don't run like like that. If I was f shooting a pelagic fish like a wahoo or a dolphin, you'd have the reel, but you don't need it when you're when you're shooting fish like that. you know, five ten pound fish under underneath the water. And I'm like, so now I have a a spear in this fish's head or the shark's head and he wasn't happy and and he took off. And so now he's pulling me. and with a spear in his head and I'm ripping my spear because my spear is a five hundred dollar spear and I'm like, I'm not giving them my damn spear and I'm ripping, ripping, thank God the the the tether broke. It's you know, it's probably you know, it's a thin thin cord essentially. And it it it broke right at the knot and the the shark took off and I I checked my pants and I I ascended. I actually did a rapid ascent. Because Keith: Right. Doug: I thought I was bit I still thought I was bit at this point. You know, I know there's a lot going on. I'm like, man, I get I gotta get to the surface and make sure I'm good. And I do a rapid ascent and I come up and my son sees me on the boat and he's like and I said I go, I'm bit, I'm bit. And he's like, what? And and he knew I didn't do a safety stop because I came up pretty fast and because it was pretty clear water, I think you could see me. And I get in the boat and lo and behold, I'm not bleeding, but I do have basically like a sandpaper on my whole calf, the back side of my calf. He just rubbed up against me. He never he never bit me. I don't know how. I don't know why. I think his mouth was open in s inside, in between my legs coming up underneath. And I'm telling you, close to to my groin and I mean so close that I was able to hit him. So I got on the boat and I was like, wow That was unbelievable. And lived to fight another day. But you know, it was it was it was it was scary, but it but at the same time it was like, all right, well, you know, it it happened. and I knew if I was bit I wasn't gonna die because it wasn't a sh giant it was a reef shark, probably six, maybe seven foot. and their mouths are, you know, th they'll they'll they'll puncture you, but they're not gonna kill you like a bull shark or a tiger shark. And so I I wasn't cons worried about my s life. I was I was wanting to one get out of the water to to to get the bleeding stopped, but turns out it was just a it was just a basically a rug burn. and and and one lost spear. And it's all good. All right. Keith: So I have questions. Lou Fratto: Ha ha ha. Keith: So you thought you had been bit and you're ascending trying to get out of the way and you shoot the shark in the head, but And yet Doug: Uh-huh. Keith: you still had the presence of mind to weigh the I spent five hundred dollars on this spear versus I should just Doug: Ha ha Keith: let this thing go. I mean, that's like cool Doug: I yeah. Keith: under pressure, man, because I think most people would have been like, take it. Doug: Yeah. And honestly the smart thing would have been to take it. but I do have a lot of experience underwater and like I I mean I I knew I wasn't bleeding out like at that moment. If Keith: Yeah. Doug: I felt like you know what I mean? If I felt like or if I saw just Keith: Paint. Doug: a pool of blood coming, you know, I probably would Keith: Yeah. Doug: have s I probably would have let go. but I felt like things were under control still. and and yeah, it was well and and I honestly did no intention of shooting a shark. There's You know, I usually you can just poke Keith: Yeah. Doug: and they're good. But the third time he came back, I go, and I think it has to do with not the the initial shot in the head where there's a little bit of blood trail. I think it was the guts when they when the eel ate the hogfish. I Keith: Mm-hmm. Doug: think it created a different scent that we usually don't get down there. And I think it's what lit up that shark that made him more aggressive. I that's the only thing I can think of because normal conditions you poke and they take a w they take off. I've had it happen a lot a lot. Keith: Yeah. Well, I mean, you basically created a chum line, right? I mean, that's the way that you attract shark and fish is you you're just tossing out fish guts all over the place. So yeah. I I would imagine that Doug: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Hundred A hundred percent. Yeah. Keith: like you said, I don't know if you would do anything differently, but it seems like there are a few things there were where like a lot of people would say, you know, that might not have been the the wisest move, like staying down there alone, but Doug: A hundred per it wasn't. It no and there's Keith: What an experience. Doug: there's no doubt it was. And it's not safe to do that. It's not smart to do that. but again, sometimes, you know, I have a a lot of experience and it was just Keith: Yeah. Doug: he'd just run it run out of air and I you know, I said I'll be up in ten minutes or whatever it was. And you know, I had the flag on me, so Keith: Right. Yeah. Doug: he just followed up the flag and people do that. Keith: Yeah. Doug: you know, but it's one thing to do it while you're just looking at the beautiful underworld versus harvesting. Keith: Yeah. Doug: trying to harvest fish and yeah there's other predators that that can show up and and we have a lot of sharks. A lot. Keith: Yeah. Well I guess experience means a lot, like you said. Having that experience underwater for a long time probably allowed you to keep calm Doug: Yeah. It helped, for sure. Keith: and keep cool. But I know most people probably would have freaked out. Lou Fratto: So a couple of things that came to my mind while you were telling the story, Doug, and I'd heard the story before but didn't think of this. One is people should know that you love the ocean, you love fish, you love everything in the ocean, sharks, etc. I know you and I know that the last thing you wanted to do was shoot that shark, I'm sure. And that sh that should be well, Doug: totally. Yeah, no interest. Lou Fratto: well known. But also another thing I thought of was, wow, you know, if you know what the color of blood looks like underwater, then you've lived a pretty adventurous life. Doug: Yeah, it shows Keith: I didn't know that. Doug: up green. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It shows yeah, the the well, you know, a as you get down to depth, the in the water column it it changes. At the surface it's it's red. Keith: Yeah, they didn't they didn't cover that Lou Fratto: All right. Keith: in my cert, my my PADI cert class, that blood Lou Fratto: Exactly. Keith: would show up green. Doug: Yeah. Keith: They covered a lot of things, but I'm a very novice diver. But yeah, they didn't mention that. So if you see a green pool around yourself, surface immediately. Yeah. What color is blood underwater? Red? Doug: Little Cliff Clavin trivia there. Yeah. Yeah. Lou Fratto: But not that one. Keith: No, guess not. That's awesome. Doug: Yeah. Yeah. Lou Fratto: So before we run out of time, I want to surprise Doug with a Keith, can you roll the video and and Doug I want your Doug: boy. Lou Fratto: reaction or maybe your play by play commentary. Keith: Yeah, you guys can do it play by play 'cause Doug: Did did did Keith: it'll record it as a separate track. Doug: did somebody did somebody get a video of the of my shark attack? This is this is great. I would I wish I had I wish I had my GoPro. I said it it Lou Fratto: we'll see. It might Keith: Go find out. Yeah, we're gonna we're we're gonna check that that that fill in your pants theory and make sure that you weren't lying. Doug: Yeah. Lou Fratto: Hey, keep in mind, Doug, before this comes on, I have a lot of videos of you, so you don't know what it's gonna be. Keith: Yeah. It's like Russian roulette. Alright, here we go. You can talk you can talk over it when I Doug: I there's I have I literally have no idea. Can only imagine. Let her rip let her rip. Lou Fratto: Ha ha ha. Keith: start to play. Hopefully hopefully it'll work. Lou Fratto: All right, here we go. The famous cackle video. Doug: He Keith: For our audio listeners, Doug: that's awesome. Keith: they're really gonna love this. Lou Fratto: Keep in mind I'm scared Doug: Wait. Lou Fratto: scared crapless here. Ha ha. Keith: Okay. Doug: That's hilarious. Wow, that's that's actually funny. Keith: All right. Now for for the people that are just listening on audio, you guys have to describe what we just saw. Lou Fratto: Well the title of that is the famous cackle video, by the way. Doug: lovely. Yeah, I definitely am a cackler, for sure. Lou Fratto: Yeah. So that Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: so that was two thousand I think that was two thousand and eleven, right, Doug, roughly? Yeah. Doug: Yeah, that was our first tough mudder. That was the first one we did. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: And you know, they that was way before anybody was talking about cold plunging. That was I mean the o Keith: So d explain what explain what the video was, because for people that are listening them they might not have seen the video. What did we just what did we just watch? Lou Fratto: So so it's a part of a tough mudder, it's a challenge of the t or obstacle you could call it of the tough mudder. I it's called the Arctic plunge or something like that. And it is a dumpster s I should say construction sized dumpster container that is filled with 34 degree water and across the center of it is like a four by four with barbed wire on top of it so they make you have to submerge fully to get past it and it's just shallow enough where it goes up to right about your chest or your shoulders so you know you you know you kind of walk across it really slowly and like I was saying that was way before anybody was talking about cold plunging. I mean the only guy that it even Mentioned it was Wim Hof, and nobody had heard of him. And Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: that was absolutely my fear with that course. I knew I could handle anything else, but I hate cold water. To this day, I still am the biggest wimp when it comes to cold plunging. Doug will tell you that. My daughter does better than me. And I was Keith: I'm worse than you, so trust me, you're not the biggest. Lou Fratto: man, and it and it should be noted we were down in Miami and we woke up that morning and it was the coldest day it had been in years. I think it was thirty-seven. So I whatever whatever so thirty-seven sounds better, but I man, I'm just freaking out. I'm going, Doug: Forty two, I think. maybe thirty seven, yeah. Keith: Gosh. So iguana's falling out of trees and you guys are Doug: Yeah. Yeah. And it was Lou Fratto: my god. Doug: that that thank you. That w that brought back some great memories. That was awesome. I like I can still remember that. That was that was awesome. The first time was pretty cool. And and knowing your aversion to the cold made it that much better because I knew you had nothing for it. It was great. Keith: So how how far were you into the race at that point? Was that the last thing or did you have then have to run? that's the first one. Doug: The first obstacle. Numero uno. They they get you Lou Fratto: First the first Doug: cold early. Yeah, they don't mess around. There's twenty there's twelve miles, twenty two obstacles. And Keith: Okay. Doug: it was the first one. And about every quarter mile or half mile there's an obstacle and Keith: Gotcha. Doug: they start you off with a bang. It was awesome. Keith: And why was the water Lou Fratto: man. Keith: neon green? Just okay. They wanted you to feel like it was radioactive or something. Doug: Just just just for show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and they were Lou Fratto: Just to make it cool. Yeah. Doug: they were they were they they were loading ice in it all day long. Like there were ice cubes, Lou Fratto: Yeah. Doug: you know, you're swimming through ice cubes. yeah. It's it it it was legit. Yeah. Keith: I saw that. Yeah, when you were coming down the ladder it looked like it was covered in ice cubes. I'm surprised that you jumped in Lou Fratto: Yeah, and Keith: that water, Lou. You're such a naturopath Like, you know, there's probably food coloring in the water, but yet you jumped in. I I think that I would have thought that you would be more afraid of the food the food coloring than the actual cold. Lou Fratto: man, I wasn't even thinking of that. I was going, Doug: Mm. Lou Fratto: my God, I'm already cold and they're gonna put me in thirty four degree water, whatever it was, thirty-seven, forty two, whatever. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: And but you know what I have to say, the clothing even back then is so amazing that it I was dry within I felt like within thirty minutes and you know, back in the day if we were wearing our long johns and our, you know, cotton sweats, I mean I would I would have died, but the the Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: new clothing, thank God, saved me and You know what though so that was the first obstacle. W we should talk, Doug, about the last obstacle because Doug Doug signed Doug: That was awesome. Lou Fratto: a you know, you have to sign a waiver like, you know, hey, Keith: yeah. Lou Fratto: if we die, we're not gonna sue you guys. And one of the things it said was d do if you have any metal in your body, you know, you are not to you know, y especially this last obstacle, you are not to do it. But Yeah. Keith: Did you have to run through electrical cords or something? Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah. And he did it and we have I think we have a recording of that and it's basically Doug because Doug: yeah. Lou Fratto: it went right to his shoulder and so he's you can hear him going and he just goes through it powers through it and Keith: You're frightening. Doug: And and then I fa and then I faceplanted in the mud. it one of dropped me. Yeah. That was funny. That was awesome. Lou Fratto: Everybody was wondering, why is Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: this guy's shoulder sparking? You know. I just didn't know. Didn't Keith: You're a cyborg. Doug: Yeah, they I don't think they do it anymore because of liability. I think somebody like me probably lied Keith: I'm surprised they were able to do it then, man. That's Doug: Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: that's crazy. Lou Fratto: You had to sign your life away, I'm sure. Keith: Yeah. Well, very cool, gentlemen. So we're yeah, we're probably approaching the end of you know, needing to wrap up because everybody's got stuff to do. But That's a really good story. I'm glad we heard the long version of the shark story. and Doug: Yeah. Keith: glad you're okay. And that there weren't any permanent issues there. Doug: yeah. That was just another adventure. Lou Fratto: I I wanna do some can we do some rapid fire questions? Keith: Yeah man, let's Doug: Sure. Keith: do let's do rapid fire and then we'll do sign off. Lou Fratto: Alright Doug, so you gotta answer these just what first comes to mind, okay? Keith: There's no going back. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, you can't backtrack. All right. And Keith, if you want, you jump in too, since you put me through these last week. All right. So Keith: Yep. Lou Fratto: I'm gonna ask both of you guys. Doug, you go first. dessert Doug: Yeah. Lou Fratto: or dinner first? Doug: Man, life's uncertain. Eat dessert first. Lou Fratto: Keith. Keith: I'm dinner first. I just don't Doug: No, I I I'm definitely dinner first, but Keith: and it's not because of that. I just don't have a huge sweet tooth. We've talked about this on the on the pod before, but luckily for me, like I'm more of a main course guy than a dessert guy. Doug: Yeah. Yeah. Give me a steak all day long. Lou Fratto: All right. sunrise or sunset. Sunrise or sunset. Doug: Sunrise for me sunrise not even a question. That's my that's my church when I'm fishing. I s I've s I have more pictures of sunrise on my phone than anything else probably. I love a good sunrise and it's I call it my church when I'm fishing. Keith: Agree, agree. I'm lucky my Lou Fratto: Nice. Okay. Keith: wife also likes a sunrise. She likes a good sunset too, but nothing like being on the water when the sun comes up. It's magical. Doug: Amen. Magical. Lou Fratto: Adventure you've already done or the one still on the list? Doug: you know, it's really predicated on what probably my kids or my close if somebody comes up with a good adventure, like I'm I'm all in, you know, like recently we we started doing this camping trip a couple of years ago. I look forward to that every year. It's not a hardcore, you know, anything, but it's it's an adventure. And so it really it's it's any it's the next adventure, whatever that is. Keith: Yeah, that's a tough one. I've done some really good ones with Boy Scouts and, you know, camping and doing stuff with my kids. But I think you mentioned Costa Rica, Doug. That that one's on my bucket list. I wanna go there. My wife had gone has gone there and it just sounds like it's such Doug: Beautiful. Spectacular. You won't regret it. Keith: a yeah. So I'll hook up with you and Doug: It it's beautiful. Keith: when I'm when I'm ready to go so I know what to do, where to go. Doug: For sure. Lou Fratto: Rule follower or rule bender? Doug: and I I mean, based on this podcast I'm probably a rule bender. I mean, I shouldn't shouldn't be diving alone. Should shouldn't Lou Fratto: Ha. Doug: be shooting sharks in the head. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Keith: Yeah. I'm glad you're honest. I was gonna call you on that. I mean the shooting the shark in the head, I don't think anybody can blame you for at that point. I mean, you're I don't know. Yeah. Doug: Yeah. No, I yeah, it was yeah. Yeah. Keith: Touch and go. for me, I gonna say I'm a rule follower, believe it or not. Maybe not my entire life, but now, I don't know. I've I've mellowed out. Lou Fratto: Right? Map or no map? Doug: Yeah, pr probably no map. I mean honestly I although I like to prepare, but I'm willing to to probably go with no map. Keith: I have become a map guy. Yeah, I've become a Doug: Sorry to say. Yeah. Keith: map guy because I've been lost a few times. And also goes back to Doug: Lou, that's why I hang out with you. Keith: Yeah, exactly. As long as you have a map as you got a map guy with you, you're fine, but Lou Fratto: I am the map guy. Doug: You're the map guy. You're the map guy. Yeah. Lou Fratto: Although I can't see worth a crap at night, that's for sure. Doug: Although that's where Johnny Miller comes in handy Yeah. Keith: Blind map guy. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Okay, what's the next adventure Doug: well for me it's it sounds like it's gonna be this Everglades half. I'm I told Granty last night I was in, I you know. So I'm I'm not gonna back off of that. It looks like and I did forty five minutes on the stairs last night as my first workout for it. So we'll we'll I've something to look forward to. Just something to, you know, shoot for. Keith: Yeah, I was just thinking about this the other day that I don't have one and I need I think I need one, whether Doug: Yeah. Keith: that's some sort of a you know, goal around doing a tough mudder or a Yeah, Doug: You you can join us for the tough mudder in Austin if you want. Keith: I'll think about it. I'll think about it. I would have to up my my running a little bit. But yeah, I need something to to think about. I guess my next big adventure is in two weeks when we go to the Florida homecoming game, if you want to count that. But yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Doug: Accounts. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it counts. Keith: Was that your last question, Lou? Lou Fratto: Yeah, that's it. Keith: All right. We gotta do the one final question that's gonna become a staple of the podcast, Doug. I already know Lou's answer Doug: Mm. Keith: to this. Pickleball or tennis? Doug: funny. Pickleball all day long. Yeah. I mean it's fun. I you know, and I do enjoy tennis, but pickleball's good man. I it it it and it and it's Keith: Nope. You can't walk it back. You're the second one that's tried to walk it back when they've made a choice. You make a choice. Lou Fratto: Ha ha ha. Doug: Yeah. it's Keith: So you said pickleball. You can't go back. Doug: more full contact, right Lou? It's more full contact. I can send you that picture too. Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. I it's funny. Keith: Pickleball is more full contact. Lou Fratto: You should because Keith, you need to put that up on the actual YouTube version of this. It's the first time we ever played. Doug gets the ball smashed into his face on an overhead slam and he's bleeding like you know how much the face bleeds, right? It Keith: What? Lou Fratto: looks like he's been shot in the head and we're we're Keith: They're Lou Fratto: all laughing because we're thinking, wait, this is supposed to be a sport, you know, that you play as you Doug: Yeah. Lou Fratto: age. It's supposed to be gentle and easy. Keith: Yeah, got like 80-year-olds out there, eighty year olds out there. So I'm sensing a theme Lou Fratto: my god. That's a great Keith: here. It sounds like every time you go on an adventure there's blood. There's blood in the water, there's blood in the I never heard of blood on a pickleball court though. That's I'm not sure I wanna do this, these I'm not sure I'd Doug: Yeah. There's there's Yeah, well. Yeah, it's it's definitely red on the pickleball court. Yeah. Lou Fratto: I can tell you it's red. Keith: go on that Everglades race with Lou. You might be leaving it Lou Fratto: hey, you just have to be you just can't be the slowest one if you're running from an alligator. Just don't be the slowest. Keith: That's true. Or a boa constrictor Doug: Yeah. Keith: or whatever they got out there. Cool. Doug: Yeah, pythons. Yeah. Mm. Keith: Well, Doug, thank you for coming on, man. This has been really good. really enjoyed hearing the stories Doug: man. No Keith: and Lou Fratto: Yeah, thanks, man. Keith: seeing the relationship that you guys Doug: Yeah, no problem. Keith: have is is and what you've built around it is really cool. And hopefully Doug: Yeah, yeah. Keith: you and I get to meet at some point in person and maybe have one of these adventures together. Build it around fishing. Doug: Do but book it down here and we will fish for sure. Keith: Lou, how you kept up with surfing at all? That was one of your Lou Fratto: not so much. No, I have a surfboard, but I don't I haven't surfed in a long time, so not so much. But I have the board. Keith: Have you not pulled him out on the surfboard, Doug? Get him out there. Doug: Yeah, I well, 'cause I don't go nearly as much as I should. It's funny. I we we have a family friend's son who's staying with us for his last semester in college anyway, he's a big surfer and and I said, dude, push me to to surf more this fall. So that's definitely one of my goals is to surf more. I did not catch this last little swell because of work. I would had my my associate was out of town, but I definitely plan on on doing it more. 'cause I know Granty for his graduation is gonna wanna do a surf trip. So Ha ha ha. Keith: on. Well good luck, man. all right Lou, I guess the last thing we got is a sign off. Lou Fratto: Let's let's do it. Doug: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Should shouldn't I do the sign off? Lou Fratto: Let's do it. Keith: I th if you've got it memorized, go for it, brother. Or make your own. Doug: Gentlemen, until next time. Until next time, keep challenging yourself, keep growing, and keep thriving A/F! E person. Lou Fratto: Yes. Keith: Nicely done. Yes. Lou Fratto: Thanks, man. Keith: We've officially lost our job, Doug: Yeah. Keith: Lou. Thanks, Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: Doug. Thanks, Lou. Good talking to you guys. Doug: He Lou Fratto: Thanks, guys. Nice. Keith: And we will talk again soon. Bye. Doug: Awesome.