Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 578 | Inside Roku’s programmatic playbook: daily rigor, culture fit and the future of CTV

Transcript

Ep. 578 | Inside Roku’s programmatic playbook: daily rigor, culture fit and the future of CTV · The Prompt

• 0:00
  Performance in CTV is headed our way, which is really
• 0:02
  revolutionary when you think about where linear TV was when
• 0:06
  we were kids, right? It was very hard to tie back if
• 0:09
  somebody was selling more yogurt or whatever.
• 0:11
  The consultative approach always matters.
• 0:13
  And if you're listening to what people are saying about how you
• 0:16
  can leverage the advantages of digital and the power of linear
• 0:20
  in TV, that performance element really starts to come our way.
• 0:23
  Those B2B discussions and how your business works, which is
• 0:27
  that consultative approach and understanding it.
• 0:30
  And then now having tools and the ability in digital
• 0:34
  television and CTV to be able to not only have the attention, but
• 0:38
  then also make it performant in media and in digital media, I
• 0:42
  think that's a huge 1 coming right now for us, for all of us.
• 0:47
  This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
• 0:50
  pressing B2B go to market challenges.
• 0:52
  Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
• 0:55
  marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
• 0:58
  strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
• 1:04
  Hey, everyone, welcome back to the home Based Podcast.
• 1:06
  I'm Miros Chris Moody, and today I'm very excited to be joined by
• 1:09
  John Rogers to talk about mastering sales execution, how
• 1:14
  Roku drives growth and programmatic advertising.
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  John, thanks for joining us today and welcome to the show.
• 1:19
  Hey, Chris. Thanks.
• 1:20
  Thanks for having me. Sweet.
• 1:21
  Well, I'm really excited you're here.
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  We talked before I hit record about how many Roku devices I've
• 1:26
  set up over the years, how many are in our home currently.
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  So big fan even have the little baby teeter toy for a 2 year
• 1:33
  old, which she loves carrying that remote around.
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  And I've seen the growth first hand.
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  So I know you've been in the middle of it, but with massive
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  growth. I'd love to understand about
• 1:43
  your career and what experiences prepared you for leading the
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  sales team through that significant strategy shift and
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  high growth phase. Sure.
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  So I'm a Baltimore ad tech person.
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  If there's a certain flavor of ad tech people that you meet out
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  in the world. So my lineage over 20 years ago
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  is advertising.com is where I started and I oversaw the, they
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  called it media buying at the time and then it moved to what
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  they called publisher services. But even right out of the gate,
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  what we did was create a sales approach to buying, a client
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  centric PO first approach to buying ad inventory.
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  Even 20 years ago where we saw a ton of benefit from, even though
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  we were cutting people's checks, we needed, you know, paying
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  them. We needed to earn their
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  business. That was right out of the gate
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  at ad.com. And then I moved to Videology,
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  which was another Baltimore based company.
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  I rode that whole ride, Videology from 2008 to 18.
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  We were winning for quite a while and then ultimately filed
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  for bankruptcy, got picked up by a MOBI where I worked for a
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  couple years and then the Unruly now next in SSP.
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  So I've always been on the supply side of the business and
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  then hopping over here to Roku just about 8 months ago.
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  When you talk about the the center of it for me starting
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  here at Roku, it's been capitalizing on the tailwinds
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  that have been created in this business and then really
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  building it out. And we can talk about I'm sure
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  sort of the the things that you need to do to execute and AD
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  tech. It's just kind of where we are
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  right now. But that's been kind of my
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  journey. And then also hopping here over
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  to here to Roku, it's been really about building a stronger
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  foundation of programmatic business here, which has been
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  exciting for sure. Awesome.
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  And and that's been a big change for Roku too, adding
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  programmatic. I'm curious for marketing, we
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  talked about this a lot, how the old playbook doesn't work
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  anymore. But from the sales side, what
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  was the moment that you realized that the old sales playbook
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  wouldn't work and that you had a new reality you had to embrace?
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  Here at Roku, I mean I'm in sales.
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  So we want people to access and buy our inventory and we're
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  certainly focused on incremental demand, people that bring us new
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  and interesting demand. But we're in this interesting
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  spot where people want to work with us also.
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  So the sales playbook of sort of find people, pitch client, close
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  deal is interesting. But we do have a level of
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  qualification here around the quality of people that we work
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  with and that that part of the the playbook is super important.
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  It actually behaves as much like when I was at ADSP when I ran
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  the supply team at the Mobi DSP, where people want to work with
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  you and you have to be really sure about how you work with
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  them and then how they fit into your overall strategy.
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  So there is a level of business development and that's critical
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  to where I am in our business to make sure that we're working
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  with quality partners and then we're showing our value and then
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  hopefully closing those deals. So there's a layer of we don't
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  necessarily want to work with everybody and that is important
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  to get in place before we get moving.
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  That's new, right? That's not sort of your
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  traditional kind of cold call. Like at least my first job out
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  of college, right, it was cold call.
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  You know, get business card. That's how old I am.
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  Get business card, find person, cold call, pitch close the all
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  this. There's a lot of layers in this.
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  It's a complex business. Totally.
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  I love multiple things you said there.
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  I mean the business card example, I, one of my jobs came
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  from a business card. I had a great business card.
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  It was recycled cardboard and stamped and they were looking at
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  doing new business cards. And I was at a little munch and
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  learn type thing and dropped off a book about business cards with
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  my business card. And I'd applied for the job and
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  that led, yeah, dating myself a little bit there, but.
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  That that's always, you know, those stories are so great.
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  That's a good one, Chris. Yeah.
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  Yeah, Thanks. And the Baltimore example, I'm a
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  huge Orioles fan. My dad has been an Orioles fan
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  since birth, actually have a a Jackson holiday rookie card back
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  there on the shelf that's boarded out.
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  And you talked about the the Baltimore flavor of what type of
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  ad professional you are and seller, I'm curious over time
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  how has your philosophy on what great sales leadership looks
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  like change? In AD tech, because data is so
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  available, you can hold people accountable.
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  People, first of all, you have the ability to manage your
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  business on a daily basis. You're able to see how am I
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  doing. This isn't about closing a deal
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  and then six months later seeing how much revenue comes in.
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  This is as much about steering the business real time.
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  So what I've learned and the way that we're approaching the
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  business even here at Roku is that there's a daily rigor to
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  the business. And I think that's a function of
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  ad tech that certainly the way the ad.com business was managed
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  that I think I've tried to carry that I have carried through
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  through my career in AD tech. And that daily rigor allows you
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  to, it's not a normal sort of feedback loop.
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  Again, like where you close the deal and then you just see how
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  the billing comes in. Like you can do a new deal with
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  a new partner with a partner. And within a week or so you can
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  get a feel for like how things are going.
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  And you're certainly have a right to get back on the phone
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  with them to say, here's what we're seeing.
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  And because you can see it real time and because you're provide
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  a level of intensity to the business, which is what we're
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  still we're doing here now, that's how you win.
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  I'm pretty sure that I would die on that hill for an ad tack is
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  that that daily intensity. We manage our business here now
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  daily. The meeting I have right after
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  this, we call it a war room, which is a, a meeting of all of
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  our stakeholders to track numbers, see how our deals are
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  performing. But because the feedback loop is
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  so tight, that gives you the opportunity to manage the
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  business a lot more closely and I think a lot more effectively.
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  Yeah, I, I love the daily rigor. I have a question about about
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  that too. So, you know, data is extremely
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  important. You hit on all the data
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  availability, how that helps to manage on a daily basis,
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  literally. And we see that a time too.
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  I mean, marketers have talked for years about how there's no
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  perfect attribution. We know that data is not always
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  perfect. So when you don't have all the
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  answers and you're trying to make daily decisions, how do you
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  empower your reps to make smart, confident decisions when they
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  may not have all the answers? Yeah, that's part of it.
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  I think you have to tune up their instincts.
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  I think that's the most important thing.
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  So you could trace that all the way back into hiring even like
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  it's a certain type of person that's going to be comfortable
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  in that kind of like Gray area, like, hey, how are you going to
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  feel if we have to make a decision and we don't have all
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  the data, right? Like there's an interview
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  process or like through the interview process, hopefully you
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  can find those right, kind of people That is kind of the first
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  thing. And then when you have that
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  experience and those instincts, I do think there's an element
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  and in our in the in programmatic sales in
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  particular, where as a manager, it's important to make people
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  comfortable and making mistakes. Like it's OK if your intention
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  is good and all the data that you did have led you in this
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  direction. It's important for them to know
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  that it's all right to take a take a step forward when you're
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  not exactly sure where you're going to land.
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  As a manager, it's important for me to support people who are
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  true in those. If it's a wild decision into the
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  Gray area, it's not. It's harder to support that.
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  As much data as you have with your instincts and your
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  professionalism and with the right thing for the client,
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  which is obviously critical too. It's OK to make a mistake.
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  And I do feel like that's as a leader, it's important for
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  people to know that and empower them to to do their best and
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  hire good people so that their best is probably good enough.
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  You know that's part of it too, right?
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  Yeah, I love that. I mean, taking that risk is so
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  important, but you do have to feel safe enough to do that.
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  So that's important and. You know, I think work is a big
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  company. I wasn't sure even when I came
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  here how set it was in a process, right?
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  Like this. The biggest company I've worked
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  at since AOL bought ad.com a long time ago.
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  And it's been refreshing here that there is still that like
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  entrepreneurial sort of spirit, like it's OK to take a step into
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  this. We're building this together.
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  There's still CT VS growing so fast and it's so dynamic that
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  we're always kind of in the Gray area we should be.
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  If we weren't, I would say we're probably going to lose.
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  Like we want to make sure that we're pushing it a little bit in
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  a way that's developing new business, talking to new
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  partners, all that kind of stuff.
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  So it's been refreshing to work at Roku with that in mind and
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  then empowering to know that the businesses, the tailwinds of the
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  business are also behind you. So it's been a good combo that
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  way, But that is nice. It's it's not a huge gamble's
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  are going to there's a lot of upside to those gambles, I would
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  say, or at least they're risk taking, right?
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  Not Gamble's, probably not the river.
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  Yeah, well, that sounds really healthy to me.
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  I'm curious about the balance of the the huge aggressive goals.
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  Many would call them B hags, right?
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  Like the big hairy audacious goal as you have the massive
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  goals and then you are talking about daily meetings, which
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  you're walking into one next about daily metrics and what you
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  need to do. How do you strike that balance
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  at Roku of the huge, monstrous goal you're trying to achieve
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  and what you manage daily? Yeah.
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  One of the things that I really focus on is like account
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  segmentation, right. So it's it's pretty tactical,
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  but it's also really important to know which accounts are your
• 10:39
  other horses that you're going to ride, right?
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  Like what I would call here and anybody who's been on my teams
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  who might see this will know it's sort of your engine room
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  clients, which we talk about a lot like people they're going to
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  run and what does it take to make them run?
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  And that's important because to add new business on top of
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  business that you're to business that you're losing is just, you
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  know, you're on a treadmill, right?
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  So you have to keep that engine room running.
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  And then there's you have to also then find new opportunities
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  to build on top of your engine room clients and those you know,
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  or whatever people call them, rising stars, whatever you want
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  to call them. But the up the, the ceiling
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  needs to be higher for a lot of those folks too.
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  So when you have a big goal, the first thing in ours, because
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  we're like sort of hunting and farming in my team, you have to
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  know the types of accounts you have and you have to be an
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  expert in those accounts. And that's where that daily
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  rigor really helps. And then once you're an expert
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  in your own account, maybe you can find hopefully, and it's my
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  job to help you find accounts that behave like those accounts.
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  Like what are the five other accounts that do this, right?
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  Are there any other ones? Or are those gone?
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  Or is this person a Unicorn and there aren't any others like
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  that? Like you've got to be realistic
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  about all that. And then once you kind of
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  understand your market and your account base, a strategy sort of
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  flows out of that because then you can start to look at things
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  through a certain lens where you're like, OK, these are the
• 11:50
  things I have to do every day, but then here's what I need to
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  do to grow. And it starts to create an
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  effective way to approach yourself, approach the market.
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  Yeah, I think that's great. One thing I am always very
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  interested in, one of my favorite books, it's Wonder Hell
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  by Laura Gastner Otting. And I think a lot of high
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  performers aren't always the best at recognizing and
• 12:14
  celebrating wins or success. It's always on to the next one,
• 12:18
  which can be a positive, but I think there's also a time to
• 12:21
  make sure that you are recognizing your success and
• 12:24
  your achievements. I'd love to hear your strategy
• 12:27
  for recognizing success without letting the team lose hunger for
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  the next milestone. Yeah, there's a obviously a
• 12:34
  bunch of different ways. That's a good one.
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  I don't know that book by the way, that's might be 1 worth
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  digging into, right? Yeah, it's really good.
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  Yeah, but recognizing people's success in sales can happen on a
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  daily basis. And I do think that opportunity
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  of sort of that daily rigor to even just the slack of like,
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  hey, that deal looks great way to go.
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  Or recognizing it on a in a micro level on a day-to-day
• 12:56
  basis or in your one-on-one like those types of things.
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  Like I have somebody who's new on my team right now and he's
• 13:00
  just he's doing great with the tone and what he's working on.
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  And some of that is just making sure that I recognize that and
• 13:08
  it's easy because it's great work.
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  So it's like, OK, your tone with your clients is perfect and
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  here's what's going to yield for you, right?
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  Like, let's focus on this next. And he's just has that.
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  So almost back to account stuff like that.
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  That positive feedback is kind of the engine room.
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  It's important for them to get out of bed and feel like people
• 13:26
  are being productive and their work is appreciated.
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  And then, you know, there's quarterly goals, annual goals,
• 13:32
  recognizing those types of things which are a little
• 13:34
  bigger. The good thing here is that on
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  the senior folks here certainly recognize that as well.
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  And we get a lot of those kind of shout outs too.
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  There's you know, I mean, obviously like money or party,
• 13:45
  like those kind of things flow out of the business.
• 13:47
  But I do think the day-to-day of it and making people know or
• 13:52
  helping them realize that their work is appreciated and good
• 13:56
  helps a lot. And I know everybody needs that,
• 13:59
  whether people are just sort of like, you know, hey, just cut me
• 14:01
  the, you know, just make sure my Commission check comes on time.
• 14:03
  I mean, that's one way to play it.
• 14:05
  But it's important as a manager to make sure that people know
• 14:08
  that they're doing the right things and that their work is
• 14:10
  important to the business. That's the other part that I
• 14:13
  really try to work on is, which again, isn't hard when you're in
• 14:16
  a, when you set up the structure the right way is to make sure
• 14:19
  that people know their work matters, right?
• 14:21
  Like that is important. You're impacting the business
• 14:23
  and here's how you're impacting the business.
• 14:25
  And I need that too. So I'm always kind of working to
• 14:29
  understand that for myself and it's important for my teams to
• 14:31
  know the same thing. That's actually a biggie.
• 14:34
  Yeah, I love that. And you've hit on the Daily
• 14:36
  Rigger a couple of times, so I'm curious.
• 14:40
  Tech is never immune to huge strategy changes, and sometimes
• 14:45
  that dramatically impacts on the ground execution and what we do
• 14:49
  on a daily basis. So what has been the biggest
• 14:52
  challenge in translating Roku's programmatic vision into the
• 14:57
  daily sales activity? So we joke, I joke about this
• 15:01
  all the time, like bumping off the guardrails is generally OK,
• 15:04
  right? Like there's a lane that
• 15:05
  programmatic sale sort of lens lives in here.
• 15:08
  And there's certainly things in that lane that I'm very
• 15:10
  comfortable managing. And we're continually empowered
• 15:15
  to look for new tranches of revenue.
• 15:18
  And I do think though, the biggest thing, especially in big
• 15:21
  strategy changes or strategy evolutions, our biggest piece is
• 15:26
  making sure that we are driving revenue.
• 15:29
  But then also complementing or at least staying out of the way
• 15:33
  of our direct sales organization, which is critical
• 15:36
  because their business is different than ours.
• 15:38
  And they're selling directly to brands and agencies and
• 15:40
  providing tons of value in their businesses.
• 15:43
  And sometimes programmatic channels can bump into them in
• 15:46
  ways that aren't as productive. So in my role, what I found is
• 15:50
  no matter what, that's always going to be part of our strategy
• 15:53
  and being supportive and collaborative and our team to
• 15:56
  have that type of person that's supportive and collaborative.
• 15:59
  You can always take advantage of the tailwinds, whether it's
• 16:01
  through channel sales or direct sales.
• 16:03
  Like we're always kind of the team element matters a lot.
• 16:06
  So as you have big switches in the maybe how you execute or
• 16:10
  what the strategy is, the goal is still going to be driving
• 16:13
  incremental revenues for the business.
• 16:15
  If that changed for some reason, then maybe this is the right
• 16:17
  place for you in those in that scenario, a collaboration
• 16:22
  consultation and support helps a lot.
• 16:24
  And then it also shows you know where your lanes are, and then
• 16:27
  you're able to kind of help other people hit their lanes
• 16:29
  too. Like it helps the swings are
• 16:31
  less big when you're all in it together, especially in a big
• 16:34
  company. Yeah, collaboration,
• 16:36
  consultation and support. I like that.
• 16:38
  I was think about. That that's a good one.
• 16:40
  Yeah, they could make AT shirt there, you know it'll.
• 16:42
  Be our book. That's our that's going to be
• 16:43
  our book that we're going. To there you go boom, I'm in
• 16:46
  sold. I'm easy to sell to.
• 16:48
  There you go. For other sales leaders at high
• 16:51
  growth organizations so must think growing very quickly.
• 16:55
  What is the single most important change that they need
• 16:59
  to make in their management style to be successful?
• 17:02
  My personal opinion, so this would be sort of my approach and
• 17:07
  if you want to think about it in hiring, I'll choose.
• 17:10
  I think culture fit is as important as performance.
• 17:14
  That's a hot, there's a hot take somebody who fits into the
• 17:18
  broader organization. Obviously with sales skills, you
• 17:21
  have to interview for that, but it's really important to know
• 17:24
  what your company culture is. And it's really important to
• 17:28
  know if this person have a feeling if this person is going
• 17:31
  to fit into it and create more tailwinds or if they're going to
• 17:36
  be working against it. And I think that that especially
• 17:39
  in sales, right? Like there's always an instinct
• 17:41
  of like this guy's Rolodex is, you know, waist deep and he's
• 17:44
  going to know everybody and it's going to be great.
• 17:46
  But then, you know, and and it's always like, yeah, but he's kind
• 17:49
  of a jerk or something like that, right?
• 17:50
  Like that jerk part will haunt you as what I would say to other
• 17:54
  sales leaders and somebody who may not have the depth of the
• 17:59
  Rolodex but has the skill set to build their own Rolodex, has a
• 18:04
  decent size Rolodex. They can leverage my Rolodex if
• 18:07
  I trust them. Like there's ways to work
• 18:11
  through that. And I will say, don't forget
• 18:14
  culture fit. If there were other leaders that
• 18:16
  were watching this, and I just from personal experience too,
• 18:20
  you put in, there's more productive work happening with
• 18:23
  people who understand the business, want to understand the
• 18:25
  business and want to be a part of the team.
• 18:28
  If you're just somebody who's, you know, kind of a jerk who's a
• 18:30
  salesperson who doesn't want to work as part of a team, at least
• 18:33
  on how we're doing it, then maybe real estate's better for
• 18:36
  you. It's a single, you know what I
• 18:37
  mean? Like there's a place that you
• 18:38
  can just do how you want to do it.
• 18:40
  But here we have an ecosystem. We're in the thick of it and
• 18:43
  we're not in thick of it in the market and we're in the thick of
• 18:45
  it in our organization. And there's a certain element to
• 18:47
  it. And that's the teams that I
• 18:49
  manage are the teams that I manage are also good teammates.
• 18:52
  And I do think that makes us more productive.
• 18:54
  That's perfect. I love that one too.
• 18:56
  I'm big on culture fit. I said on the last podcast
• 18:59
  episode we did too that my biggest realization in my career
• 19:03
  was just being my entire self at work, not trying to be an
• 19:07
  executive at the company I was at, just being myself.
• 19:10
  Because if it's not a fit, it's better to know than to go try to
• 19:14
  be something you're not. So the answer to this next
• 19:17
  question could be culture fit, honestly.
• 19:19
  But hopefully it's not. In addition, the culture fit,
• 19:23
  sorry, I was going to say the two things the interview for
• 19:25
  your in my opinion are especially not that curiosity
• 19:28
  and culture fit. If somebody's at the end of the
• 19:30
  interview. And I've had interviews where
• 19:32
  I've started with people where I've asked them like, So what
• 19:34
  questions are on your mind? And it's not a trick.
• 19:36
  I just, I'm curious if they're curious and the conversation
• 19:39
  then sort of goes in a whole other direction, which is great.
• 19:42
  If you show that they're or if they show that they're curious
• 19:45
  about how the business works. They're the two qualities for
• 19:48
  me. If they're going to fit in with
• 19:49
  how our team operates and how the org operates and if they
• 19:52
  want to know how the business works and if you know that kind
• 19:55
  of stuff, that's curiosity and culture fit performance
• 19:58
  obviously like, but that's table stakes I think.
• 20:00
  Yeah, curiosity is a huge. I love doing that in interviews
• 20:03
  too. A lot of times I'll be the wild
• 20:05
  card and a panel, so when it gets to me, then I come in and
• 20:08
  say, hey, I am here to answer any question you want, so you
• 20:13
  just throw it at me. I'm going to give you an honest
• 20:15
  answer. I'd rather you know that you're
• 20:17
  excited about this and just see what happens.
• 20:19
  Because to your point, sometimes they'll fizzle very quickly.
• 20:22
  And then other times I may not get asked one or two questions,
• 20:26
  right. If they have a ton of questions,
• 20:27
  that will drive the conversation.
• 20:29
  Yeah, for sure. I'm curious about dealing with
• 20:31
  ambiguity. So when you have reps that may
• 20:35
  not be totally comfortable with the unknown, how do you help
• 20:39
  them see it as an opportunity rather than a risk?
• 20:42
  Yeah, that's a good ambiguity, especially I would say an ad
• 20:45
  tech in here as well, even though again like Roku is a big
• 20:47
  company, but we're moving quickly and not all the
• 20:50
  questions are answered when we're developing our strategy.
• 20:53
  So that is we're super important.
• 20:54
  I mean, the ways to create more black and white out of the Gray
• 20:58
  is data-driven and those kinds of things.
• 21:00
  So let's assume that we've exhausted all of our data
• 21:02
  options, which is definitely possible.
• 21:05
  There's that empowerment element I think matters a lot that you
• 21:08
  can positively reinforce people who take risks or at least
• 21:12
  educated risks, I would say. And I think a lot of it is it is
• 21:16
  a type of person that you need to make sure there's on the team
• 21:19
  that they're comfortable saying like, OK, here's what we're
• 21:21
  going to do and here's why. Here are the things that I'm
• 21:23
  worried about, but let's see how we can do it.
• 21:25
  And as a manager, I think it's your job to not only empower
• 21:28
  them, but to support them. And then a lot of times when
• 21:30
  people will feel supported that that Gray area is only Gray for
• 21:34
  a time or two in different situations.
• 21:36
  And then they sort of have a level of confidence about, OK,
• 21:40
  here's a situation, it's kind of like this other one, you know,
• 21:43
  here's what I'm thinking, right? And sometimes that's around
• 21:46
  partner evaluation, sometimes that's around just through deal
• 21:49
  type or contract things. And then sometimes it's around
• 21:52
  broader strategy. Like that's, I love when people
• 21:55
  feel empowered and confident enough to come with like a big
• 21:58
  idea, a big swing where that we can work on together too.
• 22:01
  But all of that comes, all that grows out of the Gray area.
• 22:04
  They feel like everything in the business is black and white.
• 22:07
  Then they're not empowered to say like, hey, I've been
• 22:09
  thinking about this. And you know, what if we did
• 22:11
  that? Because it's, you know, I always
• 22:12
  my expression here and kind of everywhere is just like, this is
• 22:15
  an IBM, right? This is an IBM in the 80s,
• 22:17
  right? Like we, it's not, you know,
• 22:19
  sort of set you just show up and do your job.
• 22:21
  Like it's, it's required for you to be able to be curious and
• 22:24
  then execute in that Gray area. And then once people feel that,
• 22:27
  they start to develop their own sort of black and white within
• 22:31
  that right, which is good. Yeah, well, this is embracing
• 22:35
  the Gray area again. Looking at the ad tech
• 22:38
  landscape, what do you think is the next big shift that sales
• 22:42
  team should be prepared for to stay ahead of the curve?
• 22:45
  So I think and we just talked about this in one of our, we did
• 22:49
  a, an off site or a big sort of client meeting yesterday around
• 22:51
  performance. I think performance in CTV is
• 22:54
  headed our way. I think talking to which is
• 22:57
  really revolutionary when you think about where linear TV was
• 23:01
  when we were kids, right? Like there was no way to, it was
• 23:04
  very hard to tie back if somebody was selling more yogurt
• 23:07
  or whatever. And under like there's a, the
• 23:10
  consultative approach always matters.
• 23:11
  And if you're listening to what people are saying about how you
• 23:15
  can leverage the advantages of digital and the power of linear
• 23:18
  and TV, that performance element really starts to come our way.
• 23:22
  Those B2B discussions and how your business works, which is
• 23:26
  that consultative approach and understanding it.
• 23:29
  And then now having tools and the ability in digital
• 23:33
  television and CTV to be able to not only have the attention, but
• 23:38
  then also make it performant in media and in digital media, I
• 23:42
  think that's a huge 1 coming right now for us, for all of us.
• 23:45
  I do think the basics are still the same.
• 23:47
  Consultative approach, good listening, developing solutions
• 23:51
  to solve people's problems. But we're able to solve new
• 23:54
  problems soon enough. Yeah, I think that's a great 1.
• 23:57
  And I mean, I do have Roku devices in my home and there are
• 24:01
  plenty of commercials and ads now that say send to phone,
• 24:05
  right? I mean, there's literally a way
• 24:07
  to hook it to, did we get this first conversion or did people
• 24:12
  scan this QR code? So I, I, I do think that's a
• 24:15
  massive difference in addition to all the metrics that you can
• 24:18
  capture on your end. Oh yeah, at our summit
• 24:21
  yesterday, we had one panel was with Best Buy and Amazon, right?
• 24:25
  Like here's somebody that has things to sell and then here's
• 24:28
  somebody that has a platform to sell it and their DSP, you know,
• 24:32
  enables all of that. And then we're obviously the
• 24:34
  publisher and platform to be able to execute with them as
• 24:37
  well. And then we have our own too.
• 24:39
  Like there's just that's coming like, you know, used to be
• 24:41
  addressability. It used to just be like, if you
• 24:44
  and I are in different demos that we could be watching the
• 24:47
  same show and see different ads based on sort of our
• 24:50
  demographics or ad targeting and that kind of stuff.
• 24:52
  But now it's moving to the next level around performance, which
• 24:55
  is super exciting. Totally.
• 24:57
  I'd love to hear your favorite example, John, of the journey at
• 25:01
  Roku and an example where you've seen a team successfully
• 25:05
  navigate a new or uncertain business situation and what the
• 25:08
  key takeaways were for the organization.
• 25:11
  Our team's job, so I'm I sit in the business development org.
• 25:14
  Part of our team's role is really to continue to push into
• 25:19
  the new understanding the market and and pushing into new arenas
• 25:24
  for my team and specific client examples.
• 25:27
  We're always trying to push new opportunities to engage with our
• 25:31
  direct sales force and there's always partnership opportunities
• 25:34
  there. So specifically I guess the the
• 25:37
  macro theme is you know a success without ego kind of
• 25:41
  thing where we've enabled our direct sales team to sell more
• 25:44
  through our partners and that is proven to sort of the rising
• 25:47
  tide lifts all boats, which is I guess another expression.
• 25:50
  So our sort of the new element for our team, not that they
• 25:54
  haven't been, but we're always focused on partnership and
• 25:56
  enablement across all of our part, our internal clients and
• 25:59
  internal partners and then pushing really to consult and
• 26:03
  understand with our platform partners.
• 26:05
  And that's really kind of created a new levels of
• 26:08
  tailwinds where there's pockets of inventory between say our
• 26:11
  programmatic sales group and our direct sales group where we can
• 26:14
  partner on things to increase. And we've seen that, we've seen
• 26:18
  revenues sort of pop through Indy agency partners as well as
• 26:21
  kind of direct brands too. So that's been a a new approach,
• 26:25
  worried a little less about the execution and more about the
• 26:29
  partnership pieces of it. Well, we're coming in close to
• 26:32
  time for you to join your WAR rim, which you've talked about.
• 26:35
  So I have a few quick hitters that I like to ask the 1st, and
• 26:39
  this is the toughest part about this is only picking one thing I
• 26:43
  think. But what is the single biggest
• 26:45
  challenge in B2B? Sales today, I will say the
• 26:50
  narrative and storytelling, I think it's a complex
• 26:53
  environment. I think need to be in general
• 26:56
  just working in our space. A lot of our solutions are
• 27:00
  complex and there's certainly mechanics and those types of
• 27:03
  things. But as a salesperson, I need to
• 27:06
  know what I'm good at. I need to know how I can solve
• 27:08
  my clients problems. I need to develop the
• 27:11
  opportunity so that what I'm good at solves their problem.
• 27:15
  And it's not that easy of like, oh, I need to do this and oh
• 27:19
  good, I can do that. And then you just off you go.
• 27:22
  So the complexity of our problems and the complexity of
• 27:25
  our businesses creates a challenge in the consultative
• 27:29
  sale element, right? So your skills have to be super
• 27:33
  refined on like your listening skills and your presentation
• 27:36
  skills because you have to make sure that pitch is coming in so
• 27:39
  fast. You need to be able to hit it,
• 27:41
  and it's a complex environment to do that.
• 27:43
  That's the biggest challenge to me.
• 27:44
  Awesome, I love that one. I think embracing some of the
• 27:47
  storytelling elements has honestly been one of the key
• 27:51
  factors for job retention for me.
• 27:53
  Yeah. And you know, the interesting
• 27:55
  thing about that is like, that's not that different than when I
• 27:57
  came out of college and was in a sales role.
• 27:58
  Like it's still about that. I think it's harder now.
• 28:01
  It's more, everything's more refined and AD tech in
• 28:05
  particular is so complex. And then being a big player and
• 28:08
  and making sure that our interests are important here at
• 28:11
  Roku too. So making sure that you find all
• 28:13
  the spots where it can be a win win for everybody.
• 28:15
  It's complex. It's hard.
• 28:17
  That's the hard part. All right, what about your
• 28:20
  favorite tools or technology? What are some of the standouts
• 28:22
  for you? So I've really enjoyed so a lot
• 28:27
  of what I do on like sort of strategy development in these in
• 28:30
  mid market, the SP and SSP pieces.
• 28:32
  I've leaned into some AI tech, which is super help me refine
• 28:36
  some of my ideas and develop some proposals.
• 28:38
  We are we do document things here.
• 28:40
  We're a Confluence shop at Roku and that was new to me
• 28:44
  developing my ideas some some of them in AI tools has been super
• 28:49
  helpful and also helps me scale a little faster, makes things a
• 28:52
  little easier and some data and tracking and those types of
• 28:54
  things too. So that's really been a big E
• 28:56
  for me here. And then I will say like just
• 28:59
  that the upside of documenting a lot of stuff for me is like, I
• 29:03
  have to get better at it and I am, but it's focused on it.
• 29:06
  But you are actually you are able to and and this has been
• 29:09
  great here at this culture to understand what other people are
• 29:12
  doing because everybody's publishing on their approach or
• 29:15
  strategies on different things. And that's been super helpful
• 29:17
  too. So those tools in particular
• 29:19
  help in a big company like when AOL bought us at ad not coming
• 29:22
  or anything like that. It was just sort of like, you
• 29:25
  know, you just came in and we're super focused.
• 29:26
  But now I do feel like I understand the business better
• 29:28
  because of some of these tools for sure.
• 29:30
  It's a great example. Yeah, I love that a lot.
• 29:33
  What about Goodreads? And I'm really generous, but
• 29:36
  this one, it could be book, blog, newsletter, podcast, any
• 29:39
  type of format, video, YouTube, whatever.
• 29:42
  What are some of your favorite sources of content?
• 29:44
  I'm a podcast listener because I live in Baltimore and I'm in New
• 29:48
  York all the time. I am on Amtrak fair amount,
• 29:52
  which gives me podcasts availability, So I do listen to
• 29:55
  a lot of the industry podcasts for sure.
• 29:57
  Business book, which I think is over 20 years old now, it's
• 29:59
  probably closer to 25. Good to great is one that has
• 30:03
  always sort of come back around some of that it like that engine
• 30:06
  room piece. And then also, I forget they
• 30:08
  call like hedgehog or something that the, you know, like,
• 30:10
  continue to do what you're good at, get the right people on the
• 30:13
  bus, which we've talked about culture fit.
• 30:15
  Like those are all things that I still and then, you know,
• 30:17
  creating flywheels and understanding sort of when
• 30:20
  you're in it or how much work needs to be done.
• 30:22
  I still I don't know if that's date.
• 30:24
  It's probably not dated. Is it could be great.
• 30:25
  It's still I. I saw him speak.
• 30:28
  Jim Collins. Jim Collins.
• 30:30
  That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:31
  It was probably, I mean, man, time flies probably 8 or 9 years
• 30:36
  ago, but he had a new book which was building on the same
• 30:39
  concepts. It comes up all the time.
• 30:40
  I don't think that one will ever go away.
• 30:42
  I'm a fan. I and you do sort of come back
• 30:45
  to when it's good. You sort of reference it, right.
• 30:48
  And I do find myself in those types of scenarios just like
• 30:50
  we've talked about through here. Actually, you could probably
• 30:52
  draw some lines to it, but I'll give that one my book, my read.
• 30:56
  I even listened to books. So you know, like my wife's
• 30:59
  really plugged in on good sort of stories to listen to.
• 31:01
  So I'm always sort of doing yard work or riding the train
• 31:04
  listening to those. But business book, I'll go with
• 31:06
  good, the great. That's a good one.
• 31:07
  Awesome. What about people?
• 31:09
  Are there any folks that inspire you with the content they create
• 31:13
  or how they approach anything in the industry?
• 31:15
  Yeah, the good one. This is meta for us, being on a
• 31:18
  podcast and talk about another podcaster.
• 31:20
  But I will say I admire the great ad tech God's work in not
• 31:25
  just in the entertainment or the interest in the industry, but
• 31:29
  from the business that he built. I do, I respect the game when
• 31:31
  people start with, you know, a seed of an idea and then build
• 31:35
  something that's kind of cool. And then of course, because it's
• 31:37
  kind of fun, this ad tech God thing.
• 31:39
  But I will, I would give the shout out to him.
• 31:42
  And the reason though, is because he's built a culture of
• 31:45
  positivity within our industry. It's pretty snarky.
• 31:47
  Ad tech can be snarky. People tend to have things to
• 31:52
  say that may not be sometimes the most positive thing.
• 31:55
  And he's a positive person. He's a positive deity, I guess I
• 31:59
  should say in our space. And I'm a fan of what he's
• 32:02
  built. So for people that are looking
• 32:04
  for other things to listen to not or read or whatever, not
• 32:06
  only good to great, but that is a good podcast to understand
• 32:09
  people's journeys. And I mean, he got bought by
• 32:11
  market texture, which is like this interesting emerging media
• 32:14
  element and AD talk Ad tech 2. And I think it was a COVID meme
• 32:18
  account, right? Isn't that how ad tech got
• 32:20
  started? And then it became the podcast.
• 32:21
  That's pretty good, you know what I mean?
• 32:23
  And I, you know, I've been on slack, there's a Slack channel
• 32:25
  and I've had the opportunity to slack ATG and I anytime I want
• 32:29
  him to know that I respect what he's built as much as what he's
• 32:32
  doing, but what's been built and it's very cool.
• 32:34
  So I will say that. That's a good one.
• 32:36
  So I think that's the first deity that's been recommended
• 32:39
  and are good people, so that's awesome.
• 32:42
  Yeah, right. Big fan.
• 32:43
  That's a good one, yeah. Cool, I I might need to change
• 32:46
  my wording. Good people or deities to
• 32:49
  follow. Maybe I'll I'll change that for
• 32:51
  the next step. Yeah, or new account, I don't
• 32:54
  know. There's another way to call.
• 32:55
  I mean, listen, where it's 2025, there's all kinds of crazy
• 32:57
  things going all over the. Place, yeah.
• 32:59
  And money can be found anywhere, right?
• 33:01
  Like riches and niches, you know, I think that's what they
• 33:04
  say so. I love it.
• 33:06
  I agree. Like I said this probably the
• 33:08
  ad.com and me because we did a lot of, we worked with a lot of
• 33:11
  companies who were very scrappy in the early days of Internet
• 33:13
  advertising. And I do love that.
• 33:16
  I love the hustle, I love the creativity.
• 33:20
  That's where the joy is in this business for me is doing it
• 33:23
  myself, being personally energetic and creative, and I
• 33:26
  like that. But I love seeing other people
• 33:29
  do it and especially something cool like that.
• 33:30
  That's a trip to me. I love it.
• 33:32
  Yeah, absolutely. We are right on schedule.
• 33:35
  One more question, most important one How can everyone
• 33:39
  get in touch with you after this episode?
• 33:41
  I guess probably LinkedIn John Rogers, no DI do like to be in
• 33:44
  touch with folks too. And and the network is important
• 33:47
  to me. So if people do see this or want
• 33:49
  to reach out or have ideas or want to have a debate, I'll, you
• 33:52
  know, be at CES. I'm in, I'm in market all the
• 33:54
  time. So yeah, probably LinkedIn.
• 33:56
  That's the easiest place these days.
• 33:57
  And I'm on there from time to time.
• 33:59
  And it is good to talk with folks.
• 34:00
  It's certainly good to talk with folks for sure.
• 34:02
  So I appreciate that. Outstanding.
• 34:04
  Well, you crushed it today. Really appreciative of your
• 34:06
  time. Thank you.
• 34:07
  Thanks, Chris. I appreciate it's great time.
• 34:10
  Thanks for joining us for On Base.
• 34:12
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• 34:15
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• 34:19
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• 34:25
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