Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Planting Boundaries & Embracing Your Layers with Mary Rothwell

Transcript

Planting Boundaries & Embracing Your Layers with Mary Rothwell · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

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  Or different, different sides of us come out or we are a
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  different person depending who we're with, which is always
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  interesting to me. You know, if you ask everybody
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  in your life, they've all seen a little bit of a different part
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  of us, but it's all us. So.
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  It starts with grace. I think it starts with just
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  giving yourself the grace that you would give to somebody that
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  you love like you should love yourself.
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  Hello, welcome back to the Field podcast Today.
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  I'm your host, Melissa Crook. I've got a new friend here with
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  me today, Mary Rothwell. Mary and I met.
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  We are good friends at Pod Match and I got to be a guest on her
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  brand new podcast, which is gonna be a few months older by
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  the time this drops, but still pretty new out in the world.
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  And I was so honored and we clicked right away.
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  And she's having the conversations just like we are
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  that we all need to be having. And I'm excited to have her as
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  part of this group of women that are doing this because it takes
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  all of us. You know, they say it takes a
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  village to raise a child. It takes a village to change
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  narratives and open spaces and create places for women to be
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  safe and talk about the things that are impacting them so we
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  can provide resources and create communities.
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  And Mary is a very important part of that.
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  And so I'm so happy to know her. She describes herself as
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  empowering, genuine and authentic, practical and
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  grounded, a sense of humor. She's nature focused, she's
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  creative, she's connected, she's dynamic and introspective.
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  She and she has this part of her.
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  She's a, you know, a therapist and she's got a part of this.
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  It's connected in a way to the nature that we're going to talk
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  about later because I think it's one of the most fascinating
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  things I've ever heard. But on that note, Mary Rothwell,
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  welcome to the Field podcast. Thank you, Melissa.
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  It's very exciting to be here and to see you again.
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  You too. You too.
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  I'm excited for this conversation.
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  So starting off how to prioritize self-care in your
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  life and what that looks like for you.
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  Talk to me about your journey with that, because in the line
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  of work you're doing, it would be really easy to take on all
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  the emotions of everybody. You know, this is this is a kind
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  of work that requires emotional labor.
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  So having these practices in place for yourself, I would
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  think has to be an important part.
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  But it's also not something that we are naturally drawn to as a
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  little girl. So it's usually something we
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  have to figure out along the way.
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  So talk to me about your journey with that.
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  Yeah, for sure. So I've been in mental health as
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  a practitioner since my 20s and I started working in public
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  school and then I segwayed to college.
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  The college population and a lot of that work is very, it can be
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  very crisis focused. So it's fast-paced.
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  I loved it. But I think I had to learn that
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  skill of self-care because I do naturally have a lot of energy.
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  But there would be times where I would wake up and for work and
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  be like, I don't want to to go today.
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  And I think it took getting older to realize that doesn't
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  mean there's something wrong with me.
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  That just means that I needed to rest.
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  And so I think what I've learned along the way now, now I work
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  for myself now, but when I didn't, when I would be in that
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  cycle of like the school cycle, you know, on the semesters,
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  which I love that rhythm. But every time the school year
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  started, I would go through my calendar and I would put my
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  vacation days in months ahead of time.
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  And I would have colleagues that would say, I can't get a day
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  off. I can't.
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  And I said, you have to, you know, you have to plan ahead.
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  Like I learned I just need to build those things in.
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  And that was sort of my first step into that world.
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  But as you kind of alluded, I love nature.
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  And I think I was a master gardener for 15 years.
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  So it's one of my just being in nature, being a gardener, my
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  favorite things. And what I have seen through all
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  my decades of doing that is how nature has a rhythm and
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  everything has to rest, right? And I think especially as women,
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  and sometimes we think I just have to push through this next
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  thing, but or we can get that narrative that if you don't show
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  up for everyone, then you are not doing what you're supposed
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  to do or, or if you take a break, you're lazy, you know,
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  all of those narratives. But I think if we look at
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  nature, nature always rests. Again.
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  Just I mean looking at looking at plants and that was kind of
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  my where I sort of can't really connected to that and you know,
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  for my own self accepted that everything does it.
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  You know, we think about, you know, bears hibernating.
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  We don't say they're lazy because they do that.
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  So some of the most beautiful plants go dormant and because
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  they have to they get their energy by doing that.
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  So I think I started to think in in terms of that, that how does
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  a plant handle a situation if you know, it doesn't it it gets
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  sick because plants get sick too.
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  It actually takes a rest, it shuts down some of its functions
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  so it can get better. And really plants or
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  communities, they also rely on each other.
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  So I think that was another part of it that how do I stay
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  connected to the important people and really build kind of
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  that network. So it's really, I think there's
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  two things I think self-care for me, it's of course responsive,
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  you know, when we have a time where we feel rundown.
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  But I think the most important part is more of a Wellness kind
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  of idea that, you know, we need to tend to ourselves before
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  we're not OK and, you know, do your movement, eat well, All of
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  those things that's become so much a part of just my plan for
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  the week. What am I going to eat?
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  How am I going to eat well? How am I going to find time to
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  get, I don't like the word exercise.
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  I think it feels pressurey. So I'd say how am I going to get
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  my movement in my yoga? Like those kinds of things.
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  So it's really evolved, I think as I've gotten older and started
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  to recognize that we are just like every other part of nature,
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  that we have a cycle and there will be times when we need to
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  rest and times when we can bloom.
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  Yeah, I love that connection you made.
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  There's because it's something that comes to mind.
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  And some people use this as an example is when you're
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  wintering, winter for the plants, for the trees, for so
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  many animals is a time to rest, a time to stay a little closer
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  and a little more cozy, a little more, a little less engaged to
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  refill and rejuvenate. I think that's something that we
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  miss out on sometimes. So I'd love that analogy.
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  I love that those living things need that time.
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  We're living things. So it only makes sense that we
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  would need that time as well. Also, I love how you get ahead
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  of yourself and put those that time in your calendar.
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  That is such AI tell people all the time.
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  I'm like, look at your calendar and you will put the things in
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  your calendar that you value. And that has to start with you
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  because there's always going to be something else to do.
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  There's always going to be someone else that wants your
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  time. If you want to show up healthy,
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  well filled, not waking up like, Oh my gosh, I have to go.
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  You know, sometimes my husband will wake up and I know when
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  he's getting getting burned out, need some time.
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  He's like, I don't want to go to work today and he loves his job.
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  Like he loves his job. He loves his work and like that
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  I don't have to say anything. You know what that clue is And
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  you know, and it's just that you know that reminder that even
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  when we're doing things we love, we still need to take time to
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  fill our cuffs of get it in the calendar.
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  But remember and get, because another word you and I talked
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  about this, I think when I recorded with you is we got to
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  get reframe or even get rid of the word lazy.
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  I think it's such a dangerous word and it's used really in a
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  weaponized way. It is not lazy to rest.
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  It is not lazy to take a step back.
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  It is not lazy to not have your calendar filled all the time.
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  We all have to have space to just be.
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  And so I think that, you know, remembering that too and
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  changing the narrative on that. So good.
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  Thank you so much for that. And it really no goes nicely
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  into confidently setting boundaries by putting that time
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  in your calendar by recognizing the plant cycle you've done that
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  is that. And so talk to me about that
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  journey for you. Yeah, so I think that's another
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  thing. And I'll talk like
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  professionally and you know this, there's a term invisible
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  labor, and that's really a term that that it's women that do the
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  invisible labor not only at home, but it works.
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  So to give, you know, the background of that, it's
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  basically all the things that happened behind the scenes to
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  keep things going. So if we think about invisible
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  labor at work, women tend to do the things that are connecting.
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  So they'll buy the birthday cards, they'll plan the staff
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  meetings with the food, doing all the things, checking in on
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  somebody if they're doing a project, and a lot of times
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  doing things that aren't going to get them ahead at work as far
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  as promotions and that kind of thing.
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  Now, in my field that wasn't really relevant, but I think I
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  used a lot of time in things that didn't necessarily support
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  me. They were supporting the people
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  around me. So I would be very quick to say
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  I'll help with that knowing that, OK, that's going to mean
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  I'm going to have to do my own responsibilities in a different
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  way to get them done. So it's funny because we so
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  often say, you know, I need to learn to say no.
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  We say that all the time. But I think it's really it's,
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  it's saying no. But I think it's also being able
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  to recognize that when we need to set a boundary, we feel it in
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  our body, you know, that we feel a resist, at least I do.
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  I feel a resistance. Me too.
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  You know, sometimes the word yes is coming out of my mouth and my
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  body saying no. And I, you know, I don't, I
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  didn't. And there's still times I don't
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  listen. But I think often we say yes
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  because we're worried about what someone else is going.
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  To think, yeah, for sure. So, so yeah, I think, you know,
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  and I, I can go back to and I'm going to, I'm going to use my
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  plant analogy again because I think it's really a great frame
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  that, you know, sometimes in order for a plant to thrive, it
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  needs to be cut back. So, you know, we trim plants to
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  make them, we call it Bush out, you know, to make it vibrant.
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  And I think sometimes in our lives, we have to look at
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  situations where it's not serving us.
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  Yeah. And, you know, sometimes that's
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  a relationship. You know, I, I've had situations
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  where I, I realize I've known someone for a long time or
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  they've been important for a long time and I've given in a
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  way they're not giving. And so I just have to decide.
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  And it doesn't even need to be something you proclaim.
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  I don't think you need to walk into.
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  You don't need to say I'm setting a boundary.
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  Right. Right.
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  I think. Rarely do we do that when we're.
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  That actual conversation, yeah, No, no, it's an internal
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  decision. And I think being able to do it,
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  like we're not punishing somebody.
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  We're not trying to get them to do what we want them to do.
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  Sometimes I think we can get confused when we think about a
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  boundary, but it really truly is just something where you say
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  this isn't serving me and I don't have the energy to invest
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  in that direction anymore. And then sort of just be
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  congruent with that decision that you've made.
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  But it's it is hard. I mean, I think boundaries move
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  all the time. They do, they do for sure to be
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  aware of that, like examine where if something starts
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  feeling a little off kilter, something might need to be
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  adjusted there. But I'm still like, you know,
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  boundaries are about our behavior, not someone else's.
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  And making sure we, you know, like if you know, this is not
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  something I'm going to choose to continue engaging.
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  If you still want to do it right, I'm not telling you not
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  to just let you know, I'm not going to continue to participate
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  or engage. I mean, and I think it making it
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  about our behavior, not someone else's, is such a key component
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  because if that's what our responsibility is, we're not
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  responsible for other people, but we are responsible for
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  ourselves. And the decisions we make in
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  communicating that in that way is so important, too.
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  Yeah. Absolutely.
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  And I think, yeah. And I think even when you're
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  talking about somebody else and you realize you're giving more
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  to the the relationship, sometimes when you do sort of
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  like lean back a little bit and it doesn't mean you don't care
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  about the person. This isn't necessarily a
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  situation where you're saying I don't want that person in my
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  life, although it might be, but it's an uneven investment.
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  So I think when you can lean away a little bit, sometimes
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  that adjusts the equilibrium. But it's very freeing.
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  It's it's it's freeing, I think. And I think, you know, when when
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  you talked on my podcast, you stated the whole boundaries
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  thing very beautifully. And I think it really is about
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  what you need and what you want for yourself.
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  And I think remembering that. But yeah, I think the key is
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  listening to your body, because if you start, if your stomach
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  clenches or you tense up, listen to that because that's your body
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  saying I don't think we want to do.
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  This yeah, your nervous system is going to let you know right
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  away. For me, my chest tightens up.
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  I start everything up, like everything from here up.
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  It's just. And I start, you know, and I was
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  like, yeah, that's a clue. And I spent so many years
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  disassociated from it that when I started noticing it, I was
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  like, oh, wow, it's just really been there with me all the time.
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  I was just choosing to ignore it.
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  But yeah, honoring that, listening to that is such an
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  important part of your health and your care.
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  You said something so important to that invisible work.
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  Doctor Doreen McCauley and Dr. Janelle Wells are on with me in
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  July. They've got a book they've
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  written about the invisible work.
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  I mean, it's literally called the invisible work.
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  And it's about that phenomenon that we've all known about for
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  ages, but we've never talked about it.
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  And it's that it is such an important piece because it
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  genuinely, generally, genuinely generally falls on women and
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  underserved populations. And it's that person who's
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  always planning the Friday, you know, party once a month.
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  It's the person who's always doing the birthday parties for
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  the office. It's the person who's always
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  cleaning up after the lunch. And and it's not part of their
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  job description. And so many times it's just
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  assumed they want to do it. It's assumed they've chosen
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  that. It's as you know, no one's
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  necessarily stops to even say thank you, you know, or, you
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  know, and it's sometimes it's as simple as say, gosh, I've
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  noticed you do that a lot. I really appreciate that.
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  Please let me know if you'd like help or, or please let me know
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  if that's something that you'd like to trade off.
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  I mean, just that simple acknowledgement can mean the
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  world when someone's been continually doing that.
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  Yeah. So I'm so glad you brought that
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  up. Well, and I think too, Melissa,
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  it's when we are in like in our personal relationships, I think
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  it happens a lot more. It happens a lot in families and
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  marriages. We don't even know it until I
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  think we know it. Like we, we just fall into that
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  role. And, you know, it's, I always
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  joke that when I say I'm going, OK, I'm going to get ready for
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  bed. That means I'm going to get the
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  coffee maker ready. I'm going to feed the cats.
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  I'm going to clean the litter boxes.
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  I'm going to put the, you know, I, it's, I have this list of
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  stuff and, you know, I think one of the interesting things was
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  because I'm kind of newly married again.
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  And it's, so it's really a good, you know, it's a very good
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  balance and we communicate well. But I realized at one point I
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  was taking on the responsibility of dinner.
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  And I love to cook, but I don't love to be expected to cook.
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  But when I brought this up, it was like, well, I don't expect
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  that. And so I think that's a clue
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  because sometimes it's easy to say, oh, the man doesn't blank.
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  But I think we maybe don't always give them a chance to
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  step in. Or I know for me, it's like it's
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  easier to do it myself. It's going to be done the way I
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  want it. But I think when we think about
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  those boundaries, sometimes I think you have to tolerate maybe
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  the dishwasher being loaded differently than we would want
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  to have somebody share some of those tasks.
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  So I think that's part of boundaries too.
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  It's saying, I'm not sure I want to be the one in charge of this.
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  How can we share that? Responsibility.
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  Such a great example and we will go around with a martyr complex
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  and we're like, how is my body language not being noticed here?
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  How is my irritability and my tone not being noticed here?
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  People are not mind readers. If we don't want to be doing
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  something or we want, it is our responsibility to communicate
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  that. It is not their responsibility
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  to try and read all of that all the time.
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  Communication is kind. And I love the dishwasher
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  example because this is an exact discussion my husband and I had.
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  We load the dishwasher very differently.
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  We have a very different way of going about that and we each
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  think the other's way, our way is.
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  Right, I had to. Release that a few years ago I
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  had to it was it really came out during the pandemic we were all
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  working at home and we had two of our three daughters home with
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  us and and my and my husband and I and we were all three to four
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  of us were working from home. The one had did have a job
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  outside of the house that was allowed to happen in a very
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  unique way. But for the most part, we were
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  all there together. And so we were we were doing
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  since it was the four of us and the other two had been in
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  college. So we hadn't had everybody to,
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  you know, not everybody. Our oldest wasn't, but most of
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  us back in the house together for a couple years.
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  So this was kind of like, OK, how are you doing?
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  You know, we're all here, we're all cooking all the meals all
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  the time. How are we going to do this?
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  And so my husband got, you know, really re engaged with a lot of
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  these things and he likes to cook more than I do.
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  So that's always been a part of our narrative, but I just had to
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  really release the way he loaded the dishwasher and he had to
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  release the way I did. And we just had to like, let it
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  just walk away. Like instead of being like,
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  you're saying something, just walk away.
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  Oh, my gosh. And when I learned that, like,
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  it's fine. It's fine.
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  And and you know, yeah, yeah, that's a big part.
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  I just. Yeah, well, and I I just say to
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  him, you, you load the dishwasher like a rabid hyena,
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  but that's OK. If at all.
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  If it gets clean, then I'm like, there's a right way to do this.
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  And you line the plates up and you line the plastic lids up.
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  You know, I know that I'm a little like, I'm a little anal
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  with that. But yeah, it's to me, it's like
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  a rabid hyena just came in and was like tossing stuff in there.
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  But so we laugh about it because really, we do have to.
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  To decide we're either going to hang on to it and feel resentful
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  or we're just going to like look at the bigger picture and you
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  know, it's a partner. We're not going to do things the
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  way they think we should and vice versa.
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  And is it does it get done at the end of the day?
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  And then just go on to something else so.
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  I love that rabbit. That's so funny because I my
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  husband is like, you put way too much in there.
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  I'm like, you don't put enough and then we have to rent it
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  more. He's also splash, the splashiest
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  person I've ever seen. Loaded dishwasher.
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  There's like water everywhere on the floor around.
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  Like he's rinsing. I'm like, we're not surfing,
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  we're looking to stick. And so, yeah, just.
• 21:05
  And I remember one of my daughter's was like, mom, just
• 21:08
  walk away. Just walk away and let him do
• 21:11
  it. And it all it gets done and it's
• 21:13
  fine and it's good. Yeah.
• 21:15
  But the laughing about it is so such a key component of it.
• 21:19
  And I probably do feel it too full because I don't like doing
• 21:22
  dishes. And so I'm like, how?
• 21:23
  Many Can we get in there so there's nothing in the sink?
• 21:26
  So I own that. That's probably true anyway.
• 21:29
  Oh my gosh, thank you so much for that.
• 21:32
  This is such a important component of what your work.
• 21:35
  It's literally what you do and helping people do this.
• 21:38
  Then you had to go on your own journey with this is those
• 21:41
  connections between our mental, emotional, physical health.
• 21:44
  I mean, you're literally helping people navigate that very space,
• 21:48
  but then also being able to do to that yourself.
• 21:51
  Talk to me about your journey with that.
• 21:55
  Yeah, yeah. And this again, this was a
• 21:58
  journey. And, you know, I think the, what
• 22:00
  we go through in life, it it teaches us the IT teaches us
• 22:03
  what we need to know. And if we don't pay attention,
• 22:06
  it'll, the lesson gets a little harder each time.
• 22:09
  Sure. But I think the idea of we are
• 22:11
  one whole, we're a 360° person being, you know, it's not that
• 22:16
  our mental health is separate from physical health.
• 22:19
  And I think the thing it, this took a while for it to dawn on
• 22:22
  me, but I used to suffer with terrible migraines.
• 22:25
  And it really wasn't until recently when I started an
• 22:29
  integrative nutrition course that I didn't realize that's an
• 22:33
  autoimmune condition, that it's about everything else in our
• 22:37
  body. It's about our hormones, it's
• 22:39
  about our gut, it's about all those things.
• 22:42
  And so changing, I mean, I never would have thought changing what
• 22:46
  I eat, how I manage stress. It's the, it's a whole thing,
• 22:50
  you know, really looking at when we don't feel well, even when we
• 22:55
  don't feel well, well mentally, that can have to do with our gut
• 22:58
  and our diet, you know, because it's the vagus nerve is what
• 23:04
  helps us to calm down. That runs from our gut to our
• 23:06
  brain. It tells our brain what's
• 23:08
  happening. So I think the importance of
• 23:13
  knowing that we can't tend to one thing and think it's
• 23:18
  separate from everything else. So, you know, sometimes I used
• 23:23
  to say like, I love chocolate cupcakes.
• 23:26
  So I would say, oh, I earned this cupcake, right?
• 23:28
  I think we talked that way about food a lot.
• 23:31
  But now I realize if I have a chocolate cupcake too often it's
• 23:36
  not even about weight anymore. I mean, well, it is, but it's
• 23:40
  also about I know how it's going to make me feel and sluggish
• 23:44
  brain fog. So and sleep has become, I mean,
• 23:49
  it is one of the most important things and I think that changes
• 23:53
  a lot for us as women when we hit perimenopause.
• 23:57
  Everything shift. Everything shift and I actually,
• 24:01
  I actually teach an online course with group coaching
• 24:03
  called Restore. That's my sleep course because
• 24:06
  it grew out of my struggles. I mean it was years till I
• 24:10
  realized. So now it is this for me,
• 24:15
  recognizing all of this, I really have to think and plan
• 24:20
  just like I do with everything else.
• 24:22
  So if we go out to dinner, you know, my husband and I enjoy
• 24:25
  craft beer. Well, I can't, I never drank a
• 24:29
  lot, but my body doesn't tolerate it anymore.
• 24:32
  So it's this planning, you know, it's the joke about the old
• 24:35
  people eating at 4:30. So, you know, part of that is
• 24:40
  because I want to enjoy a a drink and.
• 24:43
  If I have it. Close to bed it just it really
• 24:46
  messes up sleep me. Too.
• 24:49
  Yeah, yeah. So it's, I think it's thinking
• 24:53
  about us as a whole person. So if we're having a day where
• 24:57
  we're feeling kind of blah, it might really be because of what
• 25:01
  we ate 24 hours before that, or it might be that we had
• 25:06
  something that triggered a memory that we didn't even
• 25:09
  recognize was connected to something that was traumatic.
• 25:13
  So I really for me now, because I have that sort of reflective
• 25:18
  introspective part to me when I'm feeling off, whether it's
• 25:22
  physical, emotional, mental, whatever, spiritual, whatever it
• 25:26
  is, I sort of take stock of the whole picture.
• 25:29
  And that's how I work with my clients because women especially
• 25:33
  are so intuitively. Sometimes our illness is
• 25:37
  intuitive. It's a physical manifestation of
• 25:40
  what we've carried for so long. So I think that again, my work
• 25:45
  with clients and my own situation, I think they have
• 25:49
  impacted each other. I think, you know, we all come
• 25:51
  to, I think the work we do because of our experiences.
• 25:55
  So I really, I prioritize my sleep, you know, and that for a
• 25:59
  while, I think I felt like those jokes.
• 26:02
  I was, it was a little cringy. Like I really want to go to bed
• 26:05
  at like 830 and now I'm like, I can't wait to go to bed at 8:30.
• 26:08
  You know, it's you just have to own it because our beautiful
• 26:12
  things about this being this age too.
• 26:14
  And I think it's just, you know, adjusting and kind of keeping
• 26:20
  that eye on all of the things and try to trying to keep them
• 26:24
  balanced is the hard part. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:26
  But that awareness helps you to keep them balanced.
• 26:28
  But I'm curious because you mentioned, I mean all these
• 26:31
  systems are connected and you mentioned the gut.
• 26:34
  You know, we've really, I feel like only the last probably
• 26:37
  10:00-ish years started talking more public basically about the
• 26:43
  gut mind connection. Have you seen a shift in that
• 26:47
  too in terms of how you were trained versus what you know
• 26:51
  now? Oh, for sure, yeah.
• 26:54
  I mean, there's a lot. I was.
• 26:55
  So I was trained 35 years ago, Melissa.
• 26:58
  So it really almost was like you do therapy from the neck up and
• 27:03
  some of it, you know, the somatic stuff.
• 27:05
  It's funny because a lot of things that we do now have been
• 27:09
  done for thousands of years, you know, things like tapping,
• 27:13
  right? And you know, a lot of the
• 27:15
  somatic therapies, the body therapies, that's what people
• 27:18
  did with, with ancient medicine. And now we think we're real cool
• 27:23
  and like, but a lot of the, the brain gut health stuff has been
• 27:26
  known for hundreds of years. It was just thought of in
• 27:29
  different ways, but things like they're recognizing like 95% of
• 27:35
  serotonin is made in our gut. Wow.
• 27:38
  And we, we think of serotonin like that's just in your brain,
• 27:42
  but our mind is informing our emotions.
• 27:45
  It's informing how well we think.
• 27:47
  So I think it's been, it's become undeniable, but it's
• 27:51
  still not mainstream. And I think that that's what can
• 27:54
  be challenging. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause it's
• 27:57
  such an important piece of it. I mean, I really didn't
• 28:00
  understand it probably. Well, I was forced to.
• 28:03
  I was starting to have these things happening in my body when
• 28:07
  I was 45. I didn't really have a choice
• 28:10
  but to take a look at the connections because.
• 28:12
  And it was like, oh, oh, wow. So, you know, you know, those
• 28:17
  cortisol levels, those dopamine levels, those serotonin levels,
• 28:20
  you know, and in my estrogen and the anxiety and my A1C levels
• 28:26
  and, you know, all this stuff and all the interconnectedness.
• 28:30
  So how I fuel my body, how I move my body when I do those
• 28:35
  things, you know, there was a shift.
• 28:38
  It was like I, you know, I had to really like, Oh, wow.
• 28:41
  OK. So I think that there's a lot of
• 28:44
  power in that too. And it's undeniable.
• 28:46
  I mean, I'm a classic example. You've heard my story when I was
• 28:50
  on your podcast, but I'm a classic example of the physical
• 28:53
  manifestations. I ended up in the ER twice, you
• 28:56
  know, and, and when I would the month of fall of 2019 for things
• 29:01
  that I've been carrying around emotionally and trauma wise
• 29:05
  mentally for years. And it there was actual physical
• 29:08
  manifestations. My body just was like, we can't
• 29:10
  carry all this anymore, you know, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding,
• 29:13
  you know, and I think that's such an important piece to
• 29:15
  seeing those as clues instead of seeing it as our body, Oh, my
• 29:19
  body's failing. Oh, my body's working against
• 29:21
  me. Your body's crying up for help.
• 29:23
  And she's, she's making shifts. So she wants to show up for you
• 29:27
  the best she can, but she needs you to participate in that and
• 29:30
  listen to her. Yeah, Well, you brought up a a
• 29:34
  great part of all of this is hormones.
• 29:36
  I mean, our bodies are so complex and we have no, I mean,
• 29:40
  just knowing about the kidneys, just one part blew me away.
• 29:43
  But when we talk about hormones, I think we think about estrogen,
• 29:47
  progesterone, but melatonin and cortisol are hormones also.
• 29:53
  So one of the things that our modern society has done is it's
• 29:57
  given us too much light. So going back to nature again
• 30:02
  and you know, a lot of flowers close up as the sun goes down.
• 30:05
  We don't, we don't close up because we keep looking at a
• 30:09
  screen or we, you know, we want to keep producing or, you know,
• 30:15
  pushing it. And then we should think we
• 30:17
  should be able to fall into bed and go to sleep and, and we
• 30:20
  don't, we don't work that way. So one of the best things that
• 30:25
  we can do is try to see the sun first thing and really let
• 30:29
  ourselves wind down for two hours before bed and that starts
• 30:35
  to regulate that cortisol. So because that comes up in the
• 30:39
  morning and it should go down at night and vice versa with
• 30:42
  melatonin. And I think if we're waking up
• 30:44
  in the middle of the night, which I still do sometimes not
• 30:48
  as much as because I've, I've learned what to do, but you
• 30:51
  know, I think that cortisol in the middle of the night when
• 30:54
  we're like racing thoughts and pounding, that's our cortisol
• 30:57
  and we can regulate that. It is doable, but we're
• 31:01
  swimming. Upstream at first because that's
• 31:04
  not how our society is built right now.
• 31:06
  Oh, for 1000% sure this the capitalistic society is not set
• 31:10
  up to shut down at sundown and to yeah, I mean it just isn't
• 31:14
  set up that way and you do need that wind down time.
• 31:17
  I mean, my husband was actually, I have to give credit to him
• 31:20
  first because he he gets up very early in the morning.
• 31:24
  He's a morning person. I never have been.
• 31:26
  I get up early enough and, and, but not as early as I used to.
• 31:30
  I get up at like 6:45. I used to have to get up at 5:00
• 31:33
  or 5:30. He's up with and before the
• 31:37
  birds and he's good with that. He's also ready to, you know, by
• 31:40
  738 o'clock. I mean, we're getting, you know,
• 31:43
  I'm recording this, you know, when it's getting close to
• 31:45
  summer. So it's obviously light longer,
• 31:48
  but we turn off all the lights by like 8:00.
• 31:52
  The lights are off in the house. And even if it's still daylight
• 31:55
  outside, we got the natural light coming in, but the lights
• 31:58
  are turned off. And then we're closing the
• 32:00
  blinds and just really preparing our bodies for settling down.
• 32:06
  And I used to not need the wine down.
• 32:09
  I need the wine down now. I like I used to rope so hard
• 32:12
  that I would just collapse in the bed and fall asleep.
• 32:15
  That's not how my body works anymore, you know, And also too,
• 32:18
  I will tell you, you know, when my that was happening, I, there
• 32:22
  wasn't the screen activity that there is now, you know, you
• 32:25
  know, when I was able to collapse into bed like that was
• 32:28
  1520 years ago before, you know, there were phones, but they
• 32:31
  weren't smartphones. It wasn't this on everything all
• 32:34
  the time scenario. And so yeah, absolutely, that
• 32:37
  all plays a role. But seeing those systems and how
• 32:40
  they're all connected and addressing them collectively and
• 32:44
  not siphoning them out such an important part of this.
• 32:47
  So thank you so much for all of your information on that.
• 32:50
  So helpful. All right, how we can support
• 32:53
  ourselves and other women in living unapologetically.
• 32:57
  Your new podcast, No Shrinking Violets is this .22 point zero?
• 33:03
  I mean, this is really, I mean, how you show up for this and
• 33:08
  it's such great content. It's such important
• 33:11
  conversations. It's tied so succinctly with
• 33:13
  what we do here. And so talk to me about what it
• 33:17
  was that made you decide it was time to to open this chapter.
• 33:22
  Yeah, Yeah. Well, you know, again, partly my
• 33:26
  own experiences, but a lot of my career was spent working with
• 33:30
  college students. And I think really the impetus
• 33:33
  was when I would see over and over my college, and I'll call
• 33:37
  them girls, my college girls, putting themselves in situations
• 33:42
  where they stayed small. And it would be things like a
• 33:46
  lot of it was intimate situations, you know, they would
• 33:50
  be, they would be in a situation where things were getting
• 33:53
  physical. And I can't tell you, I bet you
• 33:56
  once a week I would have one of my girls tell me.
• 33:59
  Well, I just went along with it. I didn't really want to, but it
• 34:02
  was easier. And you know, I couldn't be
• 34:05
  appalled in that moment. Sure.
• 34:08
  But this accumulation of where are we getting this message that
• 34:14
  we just need to go along with something because it's quote
• 34:19
  easier. So that really, I think was
• 34:22
  probably the biggest seed. And, you know, I think for me,
• 34:28
  when I, you know, as a therapist, you don't talk about
• 34:32
  yourself a lot. That's not your role, right?
• 34:34
  And so I think for me, it was challenging to step into this
• 34:38
  space because on a podcast, people just learn about you.
• 34:42
  You know, it's not that you put things out, but even like now,
• 34:45
  you know, my clients wouldn't know that my husband and I don't
• 34:49
  load the dishwasher the same way.
• 34:51
  You know, it's even those little things where you just, you don't
• 34:54
  talk about that. It's a different sort of
• 34:57
  relationship. So I think for me, it was, it
• 34:59
  was kind of, I think part of me chose that career for a reason.
• 35:03
  It's very safe to not share. It's very safe to be able to be
• 35:09
  there and support somebody else without allowing them to support
• 35:13
  you. So first of all, therapy is
• 35:15
  beautiful. I think it's a very, it's I'm
• 35:18
  humbled to be able to be that for people.
• 35:22
  But I think it also can lend to sort of this feeling of like, I
• 35:26
  always have to know how to take care of myself.
• 35:29
  And I'll be the first to tell you, I've definitely seen
• 35:33
  therapists and all the therapists that I know that are
• 35:35
  the best have had therapists. So it's, it's really powerful
• 35:40
  thing, but I wanted women to recognize that if you stand up
• 35:46
  and I, you know, I talk about mountain pose, like yoga pose,
• 35:48
  If you stand up with your, your shoulders back and down and you
• 35:52
  take up your space, you're not the B word.
• 35:56
  You're not crazy. You're not, you know, we're,
• 35:59
  it's, again, I'll say what you said about me.
• 36:02
  Your podcast is about layers. All of those layers, even if
• 36:06
  some of them make, make us feel a little bit cringy, that's OK.
• 36:10
  Like they're part of who we are. And I wanted people to feel
• 36:16
  empowered by the stories. And you know, one of the things
• 36:21
  in my work, I use a positive psychology frame.
• 36:24
  Basically what that means is when we are growing up, we do
• 36:28
  what we have to do to survive. And that could be that could
• 36:33
  mean that you are the the child who is very compliant and you
• 36:37
  want to keep the peace. It could mean that you're the
• 36:40
  one that acts out. But whatever happened, you were
• 36:44
  trying to get through a situation that was really hard,
• 36:48
  and people end up in therapy or coaching or the doctor's office
• 36:55
  because they try to keep doing the thing that worked when they
• 36:58
  were younger and it doesn't work anymore.
• 37:02
  So I think also empowering women especially to be able to look at
• 37:07
  it and say just because you always did that doesn't mean you
• 37:10
  always have to do that. Yeah, yeah.
• 37:14
  You can expand into a space and that goes back to nature again.
• 37:18
  I have this concept of essential nature, that we are all wired a
• 37:23
  certain way and we all are formed by our environment,
• 37:27
  nature and nurture. And so being able to get back to
• 37:30
  that because as kids, we know what we need pretty much.
• 37:34
  We know what we like, we know what we hate.
• 37:37
  And then women are socialized to be nice and smile.
• 37:41
  And so I think being able to re access that inner knowing is so
• 37:48
  powerful. And that's a lot of what I think
• 37:52
  the message. I mean, I do a lot of things
• 37:55
  across the board about Wellness and all kinds of things.
• 37:57
  But at the base of that is really.
• 38:01
  How do you stand in your space, be well and just, you know, kind
• 38:06
  of live the life that makes you feel fulfilled?
• 38:10
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:11
  So good. I mean, I love the mountain pose
• 38:14
  picture in in. I love that visual.
• 38:18
  Also. It's that piece of we don't need
• 38:20
  to apologize for taking up space and being seen, known and heard
• 38:26
  and, and getting rid of that idea did not to be difficult or
• 38:31
  not to be bitchy or whatever. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 38:35
  You say no to something that doesn't feel authentic and
• 38:39
  healthy and well to you or no matter where it is, whether it's
• 38:43
  in the bedroom or the boardroom or anywhere in between.
• 38:47
  That is you being honoring to you.
• 38:50
  And one of the first things I also in a different way, but I
• 38:54
  also work with college students and and primarily women.
• 38:59
  And I, I'm the one of the first things I always tell them is
• 39:01
  like, don't ever enter a room leading with I'm sorry.
• 39:06
  You, you walk into a room. May I have some of your time?
• 39:10
  I need a moment. If it doesn't work now, can we
• 39:13
  schedule something later? But never with.
• 39:16
  Oh, I'm so sorry. Can I have a moment of your
• 39:17
  time? Oh, I'm so sorry.
• 39:19
  I didn't. You know what?
• 39:20
  No, no, no, no. You lead with a question.
• 39:23
  And I, Maria Mai, who I was just on with a couple weeks ago, had
• 39:29
  a great way to reframe it. And she said that instead of
• 39:33
  saying if she's late for something.
• 39:35
  Thank you so much for being patient.
• 39:37
  I appreciate you waiting for me. That is like a whole different
• 39:43
  framework of the way you say something to someone so that
• 39:47
  like you don't have to apologize for having needs, wants,
• 39:52
  desires, hopes and, and, and wishing to be authentic to
• 39:56
  ourselves that so we're getting rid of that, making everything
• 39:59
  convenient for everybody else at a cost to us.
• 40:03
  We have to get rid of that idea that that's the way we're
• 40:06
  supposed to show up in the world.
• 40:08
  Yeah, we can't be perfect. And I think we're we're quick to
• 40:11
  feel shame because we are shamed, you know?
• 40:14
  I think we're, you know, that's been part of the socialization.
• 40:18
  Exactly. You know, So calm down.
• 40:21
  You're hysterical. You're, you know, and men are
• 40:25
  allowed to be angry. Women aren't allowed to be
• 40:27
  angry. You know, it's sort of those
• 40:29
  different scripts. But I love that idea of the, the
• 40:34
  being aware of saying sorry because you can use a statement
• 40:37
  and said instead, like you said, thanks for waiting or I need a
• 40:42
  minute of your time. Is this convenient right now?
• 40:44
  But we really have to work, I think to change some of that
• 40:48
  sort of self deprecating, reducing ourselves.
• 40:52
  We really have to practice. And I like starting with that
• 40:56
  mountain post. Stand in that space, start with
• 40:58
  your body and that can help your mind follow.
• 41:02
  Yeah, it reminds me of a scene from Ted Lasso And and it's it's
• 41:08
  funny. And the funny part about this is
• 41:10
  this is so classic Ted Lasso too.
• 41:12
  It's actually the main character woman in there showing the man,
• 41:18
  Nick, who's very insecure young assistant coach.
• 41:22
  She's. Actually the one that does the
• 41:24
  lion pose and is showing him how to show up confidently in a room
• 41:27
  and when she does that, I'm like, oh I love that they
• 41:30
  switched the narrative on. That's her showing him how to
• 41:33
  show up in the mountain pose and how, you know, she looks so
• 41:37
  strong and determined when she does it.
• 41:39
  And she but she talked about it in the manner of before she
• 41:42
  would go because he had said to her, you always seem so
• 41:46
  confident. He's like, oh, are you kidding
• 41:48
  me? Every time I go into a boardroom
• 41:51
  where I know it's going to be all men because I'm the only
• 41:54
  woman owner of a sports team anywhere, I will go in the
• 41:58
  bathroom and do this pose and get myself ready to walk in with
• 42:03
  the kind of posture and the kind of with aura of confidence that
• 42:08
  I know I'm going to need every ounce of when I walk in that
• 42:11
  room. And it changes completely the
• 42:14
  way you received and viewed. And because you're right there.
• 42:17
  I talk about this all the time. I go into it in great detail in
• 42:21
  my online course about the example of anger is not the
• 42:25
  problem. The problem around anger is that
• 42:29
  we stuff it, that we don't leave room to process it, that we are
• 42:33
  embarrassed by it, shamed by it. Anger's the clue.
• 42:37
  It's letting us know something's happening here and we have just
• 42:40
  as much a right to it as men do. The problem is the socialization
• 42:44
  around it. When a man demands something, we
• 42:47
  say he's strong and determined. And of course, and you know, so
• 42:51
  it's also changing those words and narratives, but being we got
• 42:54
  to do it together as a collective.
• 42:56
  That's why I'm, you know, so passionate about what we do, you
• 43:00
  and I do, and welcoming all the women we can get going into this
• 43:03
  conversation because it's. Going to take all of.
• 43:06
  Is to ship these narratives and pour into these, you know, these
• 43:09
  younger generations and help them to know no apologizing for
• 43:13
  taking up space. You have every right to be in
• 43:16
  that room. You have every right to advocate
• 43:18
  for yourself and you will have to advocate your for yourself to
• 43:21
  change these narratives. Yeah.
• 43:24
  And to support each other, to women, to support each other,
• 43:27
  not competition, exactly. Yeah, because we're set up for
• 43:31
  that too. So I think we can, we tend to
• 43:34
  say that stuff about other women too, but I think at the core,
• 43:38
  that's not what we really want. So I think, yeah, changing that
• 43:44
  dynamic too is really important. Absolutely no more scarcity
• 43:47
  mindset. There's room for all of us and
• 43:49
  we're and we're feeding into the old tired narrative when when we
• 43:53
  let that rule the day and it's like, no, we're discarding that.
• 43:58
  You know, I talk about, I give examples.
• 44:00
  Like, listen, if you're in a room with another woman and
• 44:02
  you've got a few deposits in the bank and you've been there,
• 44:05
  Well, and you've got some experience.
• 44:07
  If someone interrupts her. Excuse me, George, I don't think
• 44:11
  Shelly was finished yet. I let's listen to what she has
• 44:14
  to say first. Those little decisions that you
• 44:17
  make in a day instead of seeing her.
• 44:20
  Oh we're going to keep her small so I can continue to rise up the
• 44:23
  ladder. No make more on that letter
• 44:26
  because when you rise up and show what can be done it creates
• 44:29
  bring her along with you and create a community that way.
• 44:33
  So yeah. So we could talk about this for
• 44:36
  forever, but so good. Thank you so much for all of
• 44:39
  that So good. I love it.
• 44:40
  All right. And this really goes nicely into
• 44:43
  the importance upsetting and coming back to your why and your
• 44:47
  values in what you do. Your work is very succinctly
• 44:51
  aligned. From this I can.
• 44:52
  I know that from. Talking to you.
• 44:55
  So talk to me about that journey and getting there and
• 44:57
  understanding that connection. Yeah.
• 45:01
  Yeah. I, I was always drawn, even as a
• 45:03
  kid, I knew that whatever I did with my life, I wanted to impact
• 45:08
  people. I wanted to impact the world.
• 45:09
  And I I know it sounds corny even to my ears right now, but
• 45:13
  that's always been my motivator. And you know, you don't, you
• 45:18
  don't get rich in college mental health.
• 45:20
  You don't get rich as a therapist.
• 45:22
  These aren't things that you choose because you want to pad
• 45:26
  your bank account. So but that never it never
• 45:30
  worried me and you know, each time I change jobs, believe it
• 45:35
  or not, I took pretty significant pay cuts.
• 45:38
  But to me, it was growing kind of the impact that I could have
• 45:43
  or working with a different population.
• 45:46
  And, you know, that really has been not a problem.
• 45:51
  You know, I think there are people that they worry so much
• 45:53
  about the money and I get that. But I think if you feel grounded
• 45:59
  and sure in your why, I think it makes those choices, it drives
• 46:04
  those choices. And so now, I mean, I retired
• 46:08
  officially from Penn State in 2022 and that was not something
• 46:11
  that I would have chosen to do. There was a situation that
• 46:15
  happened with personnel change that someone who would end up
• 46:19
  having a big impact on my ability to not only work well,
• 46:25
  but to work in a healthy environment.
• 46:27
  And I just had to make the choice to leave something that I
• 46:31
  loved. And it really like, it took the
• 46:35
  foundation out from under me. Like it it leveled me.
• 46:38
  And yeah, because that was really I loved.
• 46:42
  I just loved the environment. I loved college students.
• 46:46
  So I had to sort of reinvent, what am I going to do now?
• 46:50
  And you know, you can relate to this, I'm sure.
• 46:54
  But building something like we're building now with all the
• 46:57
  parts and the podcast and the workshops and all of those
• 47:01
  things, it's freaking hard. But I think that thread runs
• 47:06
  through it that when I get a comment, like I just got a
• 47:09
  comment on e-mail today from somebody that listened to my
• 47:13
  most recent podcast episode saying, thank you so much for
• 47:17
  this because I'm going to be going to my doctor next week.
• 47:20
  And it helped me to have the language that I need to advocate
• 47:23
  for myself. Somebody said to me, I had a
• 47:26
  hard thing that I needed to do. And I just kept thinking, no
• 47:29
  shrinking Violets, which is the name of my podcast.
• 47:32
  And those little things are just, it's kind of like, you
• 47:37
  know, when the light the the candle starts to sputter and
• 47:40
  then all of a sudden it gets a breath of fresh air and the
• 47:43
  flame comes up. That's what those things are
• 47:46
  like. So really, I have always wanted
• 47:49
  to leave an impact on people, but through their actions, you
• 47:56
  know, like I don't change my clients, I facilitate.
• 48:02
  Yeah, yeah. I just want somebody's day to be
• 48:05
  better because it intersected with mine.
• 48:09
  And I know that does sound so corny and maybe, I don't know,
• 48:12
  sometimes maybe there's a little privilege in that.
• 48:14
  But I feel like that's always been my why.
• 48:17
  And even with making a garden, like I want that space to be
• 48:22
  nurturing to, you know, the bees and the butterflies and all of
• 48:26
  those things like changing what whatever terrain I'm in just to
• 48:31
  create something that's more hospitable.
• 48:33
  And nurturing for whatever needs that.
• 48:37
  I love that. I love how you tied those in and
• 48:39
  how those aligned with and in going back to you knowing early
• 48:43
  on, whatever I do, it's good this is going to be tied to it.
• 48:46
  And that's what allows you to show up each day fulfilled,
• 48:50
  ready, ready to get in touch with yourself, doing what you
• 48:53
  need to do to fill yourself so you can show up the way you want
• 48:57
  to in those spaces. That's such a key component.
• 48:59
  It's so funny you mentioned that because I was, I had this
• 49:02
  epiphany a little while back. I was creating this, this thing
• 49:09
  that I wanted to release and put out into the world and I, it
• 49:13
  finally hit me. I'm like, this has been the goal
• 49:15
  the whole time. The goal has been to provide
• 49:19
  resources on multiple mediums so that wherever a woman goes, if
• 49:24
  she likes a podcast, that's here.
• 49:26
  If she likes a book, that's here.
• 49:28
  If she wants me to come talk to her in person, that's here.
• 49:31
  If she wants to do it online on her own or in a group because
• 49:35
  they can't, you know, doesn't work to bring me in or they want
• 49:38
  to work on it on their own time and have more time to work
• 49:40
  through the framework. Here's that here.
• 49:41
  And I realize that's been the goal, the goal because people
• 49:44
  like, are you trying to be the number one podcast or you're
• 49:46
  trying to have the number one? Like, I mean, all those things
• 49:48
  are nice. And if that happens because we
• 49:50
  were all the access and get that information to people, great.
• 49:53
  But the goal has been to give access to women in his MIT and
• 49:57
  all the different mediums that they might look for it in.
• 50:00
  So no one comes to our site feeling like, oh, they don't, I
• 50:04
  don't connect with that. I mean, one of my best friends
• 50:06
  is like, I don't listen to podcasts, but I'll read a book.
• 50:09
  I mean, so it's like that. It was so interesting because I
• 50:13
  think it's that just. Oh, yeah.
• 50:15
  That's why I show up every day. That's what fires.
• 50:18
  That's what lights me up. So how can I, you know, live and
• 50:22
  feel and take care of myself in a way that I can continue to do
• 50:25
  that and show up and honor myself in that way?
• 50:29
  Yeah. Well, and I'm going to tell you,
• 50:31
  Melissa, I think you're amazing. Like when I see the just the the
• 50:34
  web of things that you're putting together and your
• 50:38
  consistency in, you know, connecting with other women and
• 50:42
  as you said a little bit ago, building them up, you know,
• 50:45
  supporting them, making kind of this interdependent way of
• 50:50
  being. It's it's really very
• 50:53
  impressive. Thank you.
• 50:55
  It's amazing. Thank you so much.
• 50:57
  I appreciate that. Yeah.
• 50:58
  It's like I just, I'm so passionate about can do these
• 51:02
  things in community together in the ways that feel authentic to
• 51:05
  us. It's, you know, we can do it.
• 51:08
  It's possible. It's like, you know,
• 51:09
  Pollyannishly, you know, hoping someday none of this is needed
• 51:13
  and we're just automatically inclined that way.
• 51:16
  But also realistic about this stuff takes time.
• 51:19
  You know, these things take shifts and there's an
• 51:21
  accountability that goes with it too.
• 51:23
  You've got to be willing to to invest in yourself in that way
• 51:27
  as well. But yeah, thank you so much for
• 51:29
  that. You're living out of your own
• 51:32
  expectations. And this is where I want to
• 51:34
  bring in. You said something to me
• 51:36
  earlier. I think it was forest therapy.
• 51:40
  Is that what? Yeah.
• 51:41
  OK. So so you living out of you live
• 51:45
  according to what you feel called to what you feel
• 51:48
  authentic to. You honored yourself three years
• 51:52
  ago, even though it was painful in leaving that situation that,
• 51:56
  you know, it's very difficult to be effective in a therapy
• 51:59
  environment when you're in an unhealthy environment.
• 52:01
  I mean, those two just don't work together very well.
• 52:03
  And so you honor yourself in that way and you've got these
• 52:07
  different modalities and you're able to bring your love of
• 52:09
  nature in with this. So talk to me about this other
• 52:13
  component. I've never heard of this before
• 52:15
  and I'm curious to learn more. So the it's a concept that comes
• 52:22
  from Japanese forest bathing where you basically immerse
• 52:25
  yourself in nature. And I just believe in that so
• 52:29
  much. There's so much research that
• 52:31
  shows being in nature helps symptoms of attention deficit
• 52:34
  and anxiety and depression. And there's phytochemicals that
• 52:38
  plants actually give off that helps our immune system.
• 52:42
  It helps us to sleep better. So even having house plants, you
• 52:47
  know, can help. So I just felt like, all right,
• 52:50
  I'm going to get a certification in as a forest therapy
• 52:53
  practitioner. So I did.
• 52:56
  And that is something that's a newer thing that I've done.
• 53:00
  And my goal is to use that to facilitate taking people into
• 53:06
  nature and kind of connecting that to mental health.
• 53:10
  So I just think, and again, as I said before, it that's been
• 53:14
  around for thousands of years, that idea.
• 53:17
  And now we're bringing it back around like we discovered it.
• 53:21
  But it those ancient connect it's, you know, the ancient
• 53:25
  people had to be connected to the earth because they, they
• 53:29
  didn't have, they didn't have a weather app.
• 53:31
  They didn't, you know, they had to be happy or they, they didn't
• 53:35
  have a supermarket. Yeah, they, they just had to
• 53:37
  know how to live. So, you know, it's one of those
• 53:42
  things that just resonated so much with me.
• 53:45
  And I thought, I'm actually going to learn more about this
• 53:47
  because like I said, I was a master gardener for 15 years, so
• 53:51
  I would educate people about herbs and growing all of those
• 53:55
  things. But this is sort of a different,
• 53:58
  a different cue, you know, with that, it's just something that
• 54:01
  I'm really passionate about. I love that and I can attest to
• 54:05
  that. I tell you what, the ocean, the
• 54:07
  mountains, forest and I'm AP and W girl, I grew up in the state
• 54:10
  of Washington, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.
• 54:13
  I mean, I grew up in trees and I just thought everybody did.
• 54:17
  And then I lived around the country and realized not
• 54:19
  everybody has but, but I will tell you what I need to feel
• 54:23
  grounded like a couple, you know, a few weeks ago we went up
• 54:27
  into the mountains. We went to Sequoia National
• 54:30
  Park. We walked amongst the Sequoias,
• 54:32
  we hiked through the forest on trails.
• 54:36
  The couple weekends before that, we went over to the coast to
• 54:40
  visit my sister-in-law. We did a whale watching tour.
• 54:43
  We were out on the ocean last weekend.
• 54:47
  We were in Southern California for some work, but we made our
• 54:51
  way to the ocean because my husbands, like, I know this is
• 54:53
  important to you. Those things are very real.
• 54:56
  I can tell you if I'm in those spaces, everything settles in my
• 55:00
  nervous system there. It's just undeniable.
• 55:04
  And so I will get, you know, we'll get to a point and I'll
• 55:06
  look at my husband. I'm like and sometimes he will
• 55:09
  even too like. Once you get to the.
• 55:11
  Mountains, we need to get to the water and heal in a little.
• 55:14
  I need a little settling. So, yeah, so much power in that.
• 55:18
  So much power. So continuing on the
• 55:22
  expectations, bet this is kind of a different way to go.
• 55:25
  So what what are the kind of responses you get when, Pete,
• 55:29
  when you talk to this? Is this something that's people
• 55:32
  are? I think it's getting more open.
• 55:34
  We're starting to see the connections more that there's
• 55:37
  still some like, oh, so woo woo. I'm like, well, or just how
• 55:41
  people live for thousands of years before technology.
• 55:44
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I yeah, I guess.
• 55:50
  So. What do people say?
• 55:53
  I think we've gotten way far away from nature.
• 55:56
  You know, when I was a kid, you know, again, you didn't have
• 55:59
  what you have now. So I would be in the woods, you
• 56:02
  know, And I think we're outside all day long.
• 56:05
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 56:07
  And, and I think we've gotten a little afraid of nature,
• 56:13
  certainly don't always respect it or it's the enemy.
• 56:17
  I think we've, we've assigned a lot of different adjectives, I
• 56:20
  think to nature. But I just go back to, you know,
• 56:24
  as humans, we are nature. And so when you actually listen
• 56:29
  and, and I'm not talking, you have to go on a, you know, 20
• 56:32
  mile hike. Even if you live in the city, if
• 56:36
  you look at a patch where there's no building, you know,
• 56:39
  like an abandoned lot, the number of in that little square,
• 56:44
  the number of plants and insects, all of those things you
• 56:48
  can find. I mean, look at the sky.
• 56:51
  Just look at the sky. It doesn't have to be a big, you
• 56:54
  know, it doesn't have to necessarily be the ocean all the
• 56:57
  time. You should connect to the air
• 57:00
  and the sky and you know that light and dark cycle those
• 57:05
  things. We are literally wired to be
• 57:08
  connected. And if we're divorced from it or
• 57:11
  it feels foreign, I think we just need to take some time.
• 57:15
  And actually I I put together a little mini ebook on sleep and
• 57:20
  nature so I can give you that. Yeah, we'll include that on our
• 57:24
  resources page that. People can download it because I
• 57:27
  think it's, it's 15 ways to, to actually in little tiny ways
• 57:31
  connect to nature and it's all things I've done and it's, it's
• 57:34
  just simple. But even like finding a way to
• 57:38
  see the moon or, or following the cycle of the moon.
• 57:41
  I think we are, you know, I was, I don't know how old when I
• 57:45
  realized, Oh, the full moon means that it's in the east
• 57:49
  because it's so it's just different things where you learn
• 57:52
  about how the, the, where the Earth is in relationship to the
• 57:57
  sun. And so I think we we are very
• 58:00
  just disconnected and I think taking little steps changes our
• 58:04
  terrain. Not only, I mean, that's not
• 58:07
  really a pun, but it changes our inner terrain in how we feel.
• 58:11
  So yeah, I just, I think trying to get and and giving people
• 58:15
  plants like all of those things I try to do in little ways.
• 58:19
  I love that. Well, yeah.
• 58:20
  And you just like, you know, if you in the city get to the park,
• 58:23
  it walk around your neighborhood.
• 58:24
  If you have a neighborhood, get it.
• 58:25
  If you have a yard, get in that grass.
• 58:28
  I mean, we have a backyard. We are very fortunate now for
• 58:31
  the. We have a pool.
• 58:32
  I love just going on the weekend.
• 58:35
  I just love being in the water and letting the sun sit on me
• 58:39
  and just breathing the air and smelling the flowers.
• 58:42
  We have a in the spring here where I live, it's very oranges
• 58:47
  trees everywhere. And so the the orange blossoms
• 58:50
  come to life in April and the scent in the area is like you
• 58:55
  walk outside and you can just take a deep breath and breathe
• 58:58
  it in. It's just magical.
• 59:01
  And so I know when that's coming in.
• 59:03
  So I will step out several times during the day, just for a
• 59:06
  couple of minutes and just breathe it in because I know
• 59:09
  it's only that time of year and I don't want to miss it.
• 59:12
  So yeah, just so it doesn't have to be, you don't have to go on
• 59:15
  a, you know, excursion, you know, you know, on the
• 59:20
  Appalachians or Pacific Trail or anything.
• 59:22
  It's. Just those, right?
• 59:23
  Access those little spaces you have already.
• 59:26
  Yeah. Makes all the difference.
• 59:27
  Thank you so much. So good.
• 59:28
  Thank you. All right.
• 59:30
  Accepting the layered aspects of ourselves we've talked about,
• 59:32
  accepting all the parts and pieces that make up our story.
• 59:37
  You know, again, going back to your work, this is something
• 59:40
  you're helping other people do, but you have your own layers
• 59:43
  journey. So talk to me about that.
• 59:46
  Yeah. So the layers, I think that
• 59:51
  getting down into the deeper layers and I think we we really
• 59:54
  do that as we get older. Yeah, that's where I think we
• 59:59
  have to accept that part of ourselves as we would in someone
• 1:00:05
  else. You know, we're much more likely
• 1:00:08
  to be kind or gentle or give great.
• 1:00:12
  To someone when they have a bad day or they are curt with us or,
• 1:00:18
  you know, different things like that.
• 1:00:20
  And when we do those things, we can really internally be like,
• 1:00:25
  oh, I was so mean. I can't believe I did that.
• 1:00:28
  So I think it's recognizing and looking it in the face.
• 1:00:33
  Look at when this happens, I'm when I get hangry, I'm not nice.
• 1:00:40
  Or when somebody's in front of me in the left lane, I drive
• 1:00:45
  like an A hole like I'm not nice.
• 1:00:48
  And I think we work on those things.
• 1:00:51
  Obviously it's not like, well, that's just the way I am, but I
• 1:00:53
  think we need to accept it. And then when we have times
• 1:00:59
  where we want something to be a certain way or it's just who we
• 1:01:03
  are, I think having the grace with ourselves that we would
• 1:01:08
  have with someone else. And I think it's that simple
• 1:01:12
  because we are not, we are not simple.
• 1:01:14
  We're very complex. And you know, those layers, you
• 1:01:19
  know, sometimes one will sort of show itself when we're in a
• 1:01:24
  crisis situation or different, different sides of us come out
• 1:01:28
  or we are a different person depending who we're with, which
• 1:01:32
  is always interesting to me. You know, if you ask everybody
• 1:01:35
  in your life, they've all seen a little bit of a different part
• 1:01:38
  of us. But it's all.
• 1:01:41
  So. It starts with grace.
• 1:01:43
  I think it starts with just giving yourself the grace that
• 1:01:46
  you would give to somebody that you love like you should love
• 1:01:50
  yourself. Yeah, So good.
• 1:01:52
  Yeah. That thing that you're saying to
• 1:01:54
  yourself, would you say it to your best friend?
• 1:01:56
  Probably not. Then you shouldn't say it to
• 1:01:58
  yourself. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:59
  Such a yeah, such a key component.
• 1:02:02
  And I think that awareness too of it, like really pay attention
• 1:02:06
  to that, how you are addressing those things and reacting to
• 1:02:09
  yourself. Because so we do it so
• 1:02:10
  subconsciously, we don't always realize it, but then we stop and
• 1:02:13
  like, oh, wait a minute here. There's a pattern here.
• 1:02:16
  And and so how can I make that shift and make sure that I'm,
• 1:02:21
  I'm aware of that, accountable of that and that I'm doing
• 1:02:24
  something healthier for myself. So, yeah, thank you so much for
• 1:02:28
  that. So good.
• 1:02:28
  All right, in living out feel, finding empowerment, embracing
• 1:02:33
  layers. Talk to me about how that has
• 1:02:35
  impacted your relationship with yourself as well as your
• 1:02:39
  relationship with other people. Yeah, so my relationship with
• 1:02:45
  myself, it's kind of what I said, it's just sort of trying
• 1:02:48
  to be less judgy, you know, kind of talking to the befriending
• 1:02:54
  the inner critic, I guess, you know, they're there for a
• 1:02:57
  reason. Sure.
• 1:02:58
  So, you know, I hear you. I know that you are trying to,
• 1:03:02
  you know, keep me safe. Whatever.
• 1:03:04
  Fill in the blank but befriending that.
• 1:03:07
  But I think in other relationships, you know,
• 1:03:10
  sometimes it is ending a relationship.
• 1:03:14
  You know, I think sometimes when, well, two things.
• 1:03:18
  So sometimes it's ending a relationship because, you know,
• 1:03:21
  you've tried and, you know, I've had people say, well, I've been
• 1:03:25
  friends with them my whole life. It's like, whoa, yeah.
• 1:03:28
  But do you still wear the sweatshirt you were when you
• 1:03:30
  were 12? You know, if things end.
• 1:03:32
  And I think sometimes relationships, they do run their
• 1:03:36
  course, especially if it's one of those things where you're
• 1:03:41
  fighting to maintain it and someone else isn't.
• 1:03:45
  But you know, I think the other part, when you're in a
• 1:03:48
  relationship that you're building, you know, and I'll
• 1:03:51
  talk about a marriage or a really close friendship, there
• 1:03:55
  are going to be times where that the honesty that you need to
• 1:03:59
  show that you have a lot of power when Somebody Loves You.
• 1:04:03
  And I think you can advocate for yourself like this is who I am
• 1:04:09
  and this is what I need. And if it's different than what
• 1:04:12
  the other person needs, that doesn't mean they're not
• 1:04:15
  important. But I think being able to give
• 1:04:18
  that message to, I'll go back to that wanting to be authentic,
• 1:04:23
  that I am a person who, for instance, needs a lot of
• 1:04:27
  solitude, a lot of solitude. And my husband can, he's a
• 1:04:32
  little bit different in that he likes to have a little bit more
• 1:04:36
  connection. So being able to really respect
• 1:04:40
  my need, respect his need. And how do you navigate that?
• 1:04:45
  I think that's where those layers come in that you can't
• 1:04:47
  deny, well, I need this, but it might be hard for my partner to
• 1:04:54
  accommodate that. Well, don't you do things that
• 1:04:57
  are hard to accommodate too? You know, I think it's
• 1:05:00
  recognizing you're doing hard things, the other person's doing
• 1:05:03
  hard things and you can't not say what you need just because
• 1:05:09
  you're worried. So, you know, I think we can say
• 1:05:13
  anything, but it's how we say it.
• 1:05:15
  I think it's being mental with that.
• 1:05:19
  So advocate for yourself. It's standing in your space,
• 1:05:22
  right? It's it's what we talked about
• 1:05:23
  standing in mountain pose, but you're not standing there with a
• 1:05:27
  sword. You know, you're standing there
• 1:05:30
  really using your voice to say, here's what I need.
• 1:05:35
  And what, what does that feel like to you?
• 1:05:37
  Like learning how to communicate is is key to really.
• 1:05:41
  Everything, yeah, because there's so many ways to say
• 1:05:44
  things but that communicate. I love that stand strong, but
• 1:05:47
  not with the sword. We can be direct and kind and I
• 1:05:52
  think sometimes we think direct has to be abrupt and terse and,
• 1:05:57
  and it just, it doesn't have to be, it can just be you don't
• 1:06:00
  beat around the Bush, but you have your tone of voice and
• 1:06:03
  you're talking and I statements and you know, so really thinking
• 1:06:07
  about how you say that is going to have everything to do.
• 1:06:11
  That person feels like, Oh yeah, they're they really are
• 1:06:15
  genuinely concerned about the impact on me while speaking up
• 1:06:19
  for themselves. Both things can be true.
• 1:06:21
  Then that opens the door. OK, how are we going to navigate
• 1:06:24
  this then? How are we going to work through
• 1:06:26
  this? That's the key in relationships
• 1:06:28
  and, and sitting there and stewing about it or not doing it
• 1:06:33
  because you're afraid of the reaction and then being
• 1:06:36
  irritated with them about the thing that you won't
• 1:06:38
  communicate. You know, it's like that's a key
• 1:06:42
  component too. Like if you keep hearing
• 1:06:43
  something from somebody, like they'll go to a girlfriend or a
• 1:06:46
  best friend. Like I'm like, have you talked
• 1:06:48
  to them about that? Well, no, I'm like, well.
• 1:06:51
  You have to make a. Choice in in being a part of the
• 1:06:54
  solution here. And if you're not, then like you
• 1:06:58
  might be like, then then I'm not really interested in hearing
• 1:07:02
  more about that if it's just going to be continuing down this
• 1:07:06
  road. So, you know, I think about
• 1:07:08
  those kinds of things too. But yeah, communication, you can
• 1:07:11
  be direct and kind at the same time, and everybody's better off
• 1:07:14
  when you do that. So, yeah, thank you so much for
• 1:07:16
  that. So good.
• 1:07:18
  All right, we are down to the rapid fire.
• 1:07:21
  Name 5 activities that nourish you.
• 1:07:27
  Gardening for sure. Writing.
• 1:07:31
  Love writing and creating, Reading and new experiences.
• 1:07:37
  I love that 5. So fun.
• 1:07:39
  All right, And five words on how you want to feel the next six
• 1:07:42
  months. Oh boy.
• 1:07:45
  Well, this There's probably going to be a theme here.
• 1:07:49
  Calmer. More grounded peacefuler.
• 1:07:54
  That's not a word, but we'll pretend that's word peacefuler,
• 1:07:57
  accomplished and organized. And I, you know, it's funny.
• 1:08:00
  I think those things have a lot to do with where I am in
• 1:08:03
  building my business. Because right now it feels a
• 1:08:05
  little like, like an octopus that is like all the tentacles
• 1:08:09
  are like waving all around. So I think it, my goal for six
• 1:08:13
  months is that this is the perfect time to ask me that
• 1:08:15
  question because normally I do feel those things.
• 1:08:18
  I feel grounded. I feel, but right now it's like
• 1:08:20
  I want to feel calmer and grounded and, but also that
• 1:08:24
  sense of accomplishment and a little bit more organization.
• 1:08:28
  So that's where that's where my heads at right now.
• 1:08:30
  Yeah, Yeah. Love that.
• 1:08:32
  Yeah. And I love the truth about that.
• 1:08:34
  And I think that the reason I asked those questions is we
• 1:08:38
  can't put things in the. It's very difficult to put
• 1:08:40
  something in action if we don't name it.
• 1:08:42
  And we're like, oh, OK, well, if I'm aware of that now, what are
• 1:08:46
  the things I can put into play to make that happen, to make
• 1:08:49
  that possible for me? So I love that.
• 1:08:52
  So good. I'll be excited to check in with
• 1:08:53
  you in six months and see how it's going.
• 1:08:55
  All right, All right, Mary. Let people know where they can
• 1:09:00
  find you, follow you, all those good things.
• 1:09:05
  OK, so my website ismaryrothwell.net and that's a
• 1:09:09
  jumping off point for a lot of things.
• 1:09:11
  So if you're interested in my free download of the 15 ways to
• 1:09:16
  connect to nature for better sleep and more well-being,
• 1:09:19
  that's maryrothwell.net. back slash, sleep and nature.
• 1:09:24
  All one word sleep and nature. If you want to listen to no
• 1:09:29
  Shrinking Violets, my podcast, you can find that on of course,
• 1:09:33
  Apple, Spotify, a lot of different places, or you can go
• 1:09:36
  to maryrothwell.net back slash podcast and.
• 1:09:41
  My restored sleep course for women in
• 1:09:43
  midlifemaryrothwell.net/restored. OK, awesome.
• 1:09:48
  Thank you so much for that. That will all be on our website
• 1:09:51
  on our resources page at embracinglayers.com.
• 1:09:54
  So you all can access it there. Mary, thanks so much for your
• 1:09:57
  time today. I'm so glad we've been able to
• 1:10:00
  connect, that we're able to be in this space together.
• 1:10:04
  I it matters and I continue. I look forward to doing
• 1:10:09
  continued collaborations with you as we work to really help
• 1:10:13
  women know their value, know their voice, feel safe and free
• 1:10:20
  to speak up and stand up for themselves.
• 1:10:22
  So thanks so much for being a partner in.
• 1:10:24
  This yes, and thanks for the work you do.
• 1:10:28
  Thank you so much. All right, thank you everybody.
• 1:10:30
  You bet listen access those resources, everybody that's
• 1:10:34
  listening and and take advantage of these things that are
• 1:10:38
  available to you know that you're worth it.
• 1:10:41
  And the next time you catch yourself settling for something
• 1:10:46
  without like because you don't want to make somebody else
• 1:10:50
  uncomfortable, step back, like make sure you're not abandoning
• 1:10:55
  yourself because you are worthy of not abandoning yourself.
• 1:11:00
  So that's your your take away for this week as we wrap up this
• 1:11:03
  this podcast episode today. Thanks again, Mary, for being
• 1:11:06
  with me. You all take good care of
• 1:11:09
  yourselves. And we'll see you next time here
• 1:11:11
  on the Embrace or the on the field podcast on the Embracing
• 1:11:15
  Layers network. I got to remember what I am.
• 1:11:17
  Thanks so much for being with us.
• 1:11:20
  Thanks, Melissa. Hello and thank you so much for
• 1:11:24
  being with us today on this episode of the Feel podcast.
• 1:11:28
  If you would like more information on how you can apply
• 1:11:32
  these talking points that I share with our guests in each
• 1:11:36
  episode to your own life, really utilize this Feel framework, go
• 1:11:41
  to embracinglayers.com, fill out our contact form, and let's set
• 1:11:46
  up a free 30 minute consultation to talk about how you can start
• 1:11:52
  being your most authentic, organic, healthy feel fueled
• 1:11:57
  life. Thanks again for being with us
• 1:11:59
  today. We'll be back to you soon with
• 1:12:01
  another episode here on the Feel Podcast.