Latest / Therapy and Theology / S11 E2 | "What Does It Mean To Be Mentally Healthy?" With Jim Cress
Transcript
- Shae Hill: Welcome to today's episode of Therapy and Theology, where we help you work through what you walk through. I'm your host, Shae Hill, and I'm joining you right from our home recording studio where we capture so many of your favorite episodes. Today, you're in for a real treat because our resident counselor, Jim Cress, is joining us to talk about all things mental health. As always, you're going to love his wisdom. As you listen to this season on Health Check, it's really for adults, but one of the biggest concerns I hear from youth pastors, teachers, and especially parents is this. How do I really help the young people in my life who are struggling emotionally and mentally? If that's you, you are not alone. That's why I want to tell you about the Youth Mental Health Coach Program from the American Association of Christian Counselors and Light University. It's a biblically-based, clinically excellent training that equips you with practical, real-world tools to support youth and their families. You'll learn how to recognize 15 of the most common mental health challenges that young people are facing today, including anxiety, depression, digital addiction, and emotional regulation. You'll also learn how to respond with care and when to step in and when to refer to a professional. Right now, you can receive a full tuition scholarship and get started for just a one-time $54 technology fee. If you're in ministry, education, counseling, or simply feel called to help, this training gives you the confidence to make a real difference. Learn more and apply at mentalhealthcoach.org, or you can visit the link in our show notes below. And before we jump in, here are a few reminders. Number one, subscribe and receive episodes straight to your inbox by clicking on the link in our show notes below. Secondly, we are launching a brand new podcast exclusive segment in 2026 called Listener Mail, and it's brought to you by our friends at Compassion International. These segments will include a question pulled from one of our listeners, just like you, and an answer from either Lysa, Jim, or Dr. Joel. Tune in on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen and make sure you listen all the way through to the end so you don't miss it. And lastly, we want to know how therapy and theology is helping you work through what you walk through. So leave us a review or a comment on YouTube and tell us all about it. Okay, now onto today's conversation. I'm so happy to be with our resident counselor today on the podcast, Jim Cress. Jim, how are you today? Jim Cress: All good, and I hear a little hoarseness in my voice. I feel fine. So if I don't sound like I normally do, then I'll do the best I can. But I've got good mind today and I feel great. Shae Hill: Good, I'm glad to hear it. Thank you for doing this. Today, Jim, we're gonna be talking about mental health. We're in this series as we're looking at a specific area of our life every single week and talking about how we can pursue the most healed, healthy, whole, yielded to Jesus self that we can be in that area. And so when we were brainstorming this season and the topic of mental health came up, I knew that you were the guy I wanted to talk to because if I've heard it once, I've heard it 100 times on this podcast. As you've said, mental health is a commitment to reality at all costs. So while that is part of being a mentally healthy person, how would you define mental health beyond that? Jim Cress: Well, you know I love that quote. That's from Scott Peck in The Road Less Traveled. I'm also mindful of a person I spend these days every morning with by the name of Oswald Chambers in my utmost for his highest, the classic devotional. And he says a line that is profound that it is impossible to be spiritually mature and emotionally immature. Oswald Chambers, if people don't know, they ought to Google him or chat GPT in. This is a man who died very young at age 43, but in his wisdom that came out, he was well-trained psychologically, certainly spiritually in the word of God, philosophically. And he found that kind of in a wholehearted or holistic approach that we don't just do the Bible or just do psychology or just do counseling. And so I do not separate ever mental health issues from spiritual health issues. And that dreaded thing that I've done, maybe some of you have done of a spiritual bypass, like here's the thing and you don't really address it. It could be conflict in relationships, depression, anxiety, and you just spiritually bypass and put Bible verses like the word of God, which I love and put this over the issue. And yet this Bible both is the foundation of and the top of the container for our mental health issues. And should I say one thing more real quickly? It's a simple thing I use a lot in people in the counseling field use. Mental health issues are not the same as mental illness issues. We are currently at the time of this recording and it's not gonna go away anytime soon. Just watch the news. We are in a global mental health pandemic. It's terrible out there. People are in the amygdala, lower part of the brain, the limbic system and into fight, fight, freeze all the time. So I just, when I wanna look at mental health issues and say, hey, we all have them to a degree, where do they come from? And what am I doing about them? Shae Hill: Yeah, I know this time of year, this like quarter one time is really difficult for people for a number of reasons, which I know can also contribute to mental health issues. But what are some of the common issues or some of the threats that you see that are leading to some of these mental health issues that you're seeing in your practice or even just in your personal life? Jim Cress: Some people have called what I'm about to say and I'm fine with it, Jim isms. I lead retreats in various parts of the country and mostly therapy type retreats. We have, of course, our Haven Place retreats. I'm leaving right after this podcast. We start four days with about a hundred women. And so these are not meant to be tried or cute. They're quotes that are important. Some are for me, some are the spirit of God's given me and some are out there in other places, right? This is a big one. We need to respond to your question. What I don't work out in my life, I later have a high chance that I will act out in my life. If there's depression, for example, well, think about in depression, not ignoring the biochemical realities or issues like bipolar or other things, but in depression, as we've taught on therapy and theology, and it is in the Surviving Unwanted Divorce book, there are stages of grief and then stages of healing. So there often, instead of going after the depression and just treating with medicine, which can be helpful, what is the weight, what is depressing, what is weighting me down, both currently and historically? You've heard me say sometimes if it's hysterical, what's going on, it's historical. That's right. So that idea is instead of going after it, I want to go, and where do we go? In Scripture, Proverbs 20, verse five. The purposes in a person's heart are deep waters. So a person of understanding, that means you just as a good friend over coffee. A person comes alongside, or you can do it for yourself, goes down deep and draws those purposes out. Is there anxiety? I believe, you have to be careful here, I don't believe people have anxiety. I'm diagnosed with it, no joke. But what I do is I believe I, and it's different, I experience anxiety, and into that fight, flight, or freeze thing, and what's happening in this moment. So understanding what, when I've had a panic attack on an airplane, what was going on before, I did my work around that, including in therapy, some deep therapy. I could trace it now exactly what was out of alignment in my life. No big giant sin, but being overworked, no real margin in my life. So that anxiety attack landed in a way that I believe it was from God, certainly allowed by God. And what I learned after a lot of therapy, and I was a therapist at the time, what might be, very gently, what might be out of alignment in my life, thin membrane there of just, duh, the anxiety or panic attack hits, and as though I was primed for it. If depression is there, there are people who have seasonal affective disorder, known as SAD, my wife has that. She just knows the end of August, it's here. Her bigger focus, herself as a board-certified life coach, is okay, it's there, it's biochemical, it's involved in sunlight, and the lack thereof, what do I do about it? So whatever the mental health issues, and you can go down the line of ADD, OCD, even post-traumatic stress, PTSD, it's there, always look backwards for a moment, where might this be coming from? Now that's the rear view mirror, but get your eyes in the windshield of life, which is bigger, how do I wanna live with what I call intentional resiliency? Regular resiliency is, I have coffee here, if I tipped it over, I'd pick it up quick, I wouldn't even think about it. Intentional resiliency is a phrase I've coined, is I don't wanna face this. I wanna step up, I get to get in the arena of life, I will go out, God is with me, the very real presence of Christ and his Holy Spirit is with me, and intentionally I rise up and go face any mental health issue there is. Shae Hill: That's so good, I love how you're talking about being out of alignment, because while a lot of people may not say, I have mental health issues, or I'm struggling with my mental health, maybe some would, I think a lot of us can relate to some things in my life are starting to feel out of alignment, and as I was thinking about preparing for this conversation, Jim, I was just thinking about some of the things that if they are left unattended, some of the things that even you mentioned, overworking being one of them, can lead to some greater mental health challenges, and so I'm just gonna share some of those, some of these areas that I think can get out of alignment, that whether you're predisposed maybe to struggling with mental health or not, I think that these can set themselves up to be threatening to living in that healthy place. Jim Cress: And share with you the wisdom, which I know you have, this is not being patronizing, you're incredibly wise, I know you've done your own work, and that's, just go to a coach or a friend over coffee and talk about your life story or whatever. With that is, that out of alignment piece, looking at it, and looking at it too with some really good self-compassion, a great counseling word is attunement. Even self-attunement, am I just checking in every day and not condemning myself and saying, where am I? What's going on? Where might this be coming from? I just love the wisdom that you just shared there because it points to good compassion. Shae Hill: Thank you, that's great. I think these are maybe some areas that would just be good for all of us to kind of take a little check-in with, maybe give ourselves a little report card, not from a place of shame, of course, but from a, like you said, a place of self-compassion so that we can really make sure we're giving our mental health the best fighting chance it can. Okay, so one of these categories would be stress and life pressures. So you mentioned overworking. I think also caregiving demands, family member demands, or burnout from the constant responsibility, just the pressure and stress of life. Another one of those I have is social and relational factors, so it could be a social calendar that is way too over-packed, or quite the opposite, where you're just in deep loneliness and social isolation. Maybe you feel like you're missing meaningful connection with other people. You could have a lack of boundaries, be in a deep season of people-pleasing, or just feeling unseen, unsupported, or misunderstood. And this other one, I think, I feel like we're starting to get better at talking about, and that is like lifestyle, physical factors, like sleep, physical activity, nutrition issues, physical health conditions that aren't treated, lack of sunlight, things like that. I feel like we're talking more about that in this kind of protein-obsessed era of life that we're in. Jim Cress: I'm in that one. Shae Hill: Yep, I am too. And then some others too, but those three categories I feel like are really the most, but the digital environmental influences, like too much social media, always on a screen, or just going from a small screen to a big screen at work, and then going home and watching TV on a bigger screen, like those kind of things. Underlying, like psychological, emotional things, like the way you talk to yourself, or perfectionistic tendencies, the way that we're coping with things. And then just overall, like a lack of support, maybe, a lack of support system, as you've even talked about sitting before someone at coffee or a family member and just being able to share, like, hey, this is what's going on in my life, which that is kind of tied back to isolation. But these are just some categories that I see that could kind of be ways that we could check in with ourselves or with our personal counselor or a friend as we are kind of tending to our mental health. Is there anything that you wanna add to any of those categories? Jim Cress: Well, you have covered wonderfully so much there, and my brain, as you began to share these, went first to cortisol levels in the body, that stress hormone, and you get into fight, flight, or freeze. You've also referenced in people-pleasing, which is another trauma reaction called fawn, fawning, which I'm literally trying to people-please. Well, if you're people-pleasing, the number one person you're really trying to please is yourself, is I'm okay. And you know, we've said this, I'm sure here before we release, I'm okay if you're okay, are you okay? Because if I'm okay, looking for an external solution to really my internal problem. Might last for a minute, but not long. But these cortisol levels, and then we have the other one, which America now knows so well, the dopamine levels, like constant scrolling. Even our phones will come up and say, it's how much screen time you've had. But the idea, and it will hit dopamine, because that's so much of a search chemical. What am I gonna find? And then, believe it or not, a person can get into what we've taught several times here, and in the divorce book on the victim triangle. And that is, I can go in and say, well, how in the world am I having a little bit of a victim mentality here? You've never done this, but I've done this. I really have, folks. You ever gone out and think, that's a pretty good post. It could be something about family or vacation, a pretty hip, slick, and cool picture on socials. And why didn't these people like it? They like someone else. I see this by the hour. And some people come in, and I go, what do you wanna talk about? You know, therapy. I'm really mad with a good friend or a family member, because I saw they went out that day and liked a bunch of other photos or posts, and not my, and I get it. I said, you can be disappointed with that. I'd talk to myself and do a good friend, and with God or journal, why does this have so much power of an icon or a thumbs up or a heart or which one? But we're more and more have this dopamine thing getting hits, and also, it can feel like, at least, again, non-pejoratively, friends on Facebook, really? We'll be capped out at 5,000 friends. Are they really friends? And maybe they are, and all like that. But it can feel and can kind of, for a moment, numb out my apparent need for social interaction, because it feels, and at one level, it is. It's called social media. But that is not the same as going out for coffee, and you and I having a great conversation, which is real, what we're doing right now. It's not the same as that. Then interacting, even if you were on video or FaceTime, it will feel like, oh, I'm really have a relationship here, but we're not, at least in the biblical and psychological way, we're not really connecting face-to-face, right? Even if it's FaceTime or Facebook. So I think that's an issue. Watch out for dopamine overfiring, which can be numbing, and watch out for cortisol levels that rise with stress. Stressed, if you're stressed right now, my friends, take it, write it down, stressed. Spell it backwards. It's the word desserts. So if I'm stressed, often, I will not reach for something really healthy. I'll reach for something that's available, accessible. I can get now, and often, it won't be a good selection. Shae Hill: Yeah, I'm glad you are digging a little bit deeper into stress, Jim, because I feel like the average, everyday person that could maybe come into your office or maybe just is listening today, I would be tempted to guess that a lot of us probably feel like there's a certain measure of stress that is almost just required for human living. I think a lot of that I see in my season of life of friends is like the early stages of motherhood, and they're trying to figure out how to be working moms, and so they're fully responsible for these two major areas of both home and work, and trying to make those two things work. Or their children are growing now where at the age they have their own sports and social calendars and events that they are responsible for getting them to. Or financial stress, just the cost of living, not even to live extravagantly, but just to do what it feels like are the normal things that all of us would consider our normal human experience. What would you say to the person that maybe would come into your office and say, my mental health is struggling, but I almost feel like stress is just part of living in 2026. What would you say to them? Jim Cress: Well, I was very intrigued as you listed the list, so literally, meaning I would not just think about each stressor in its own independent, unilateral reality or environment. I would think about, just ponder, the composite effect of that, the compounding of that. And I was just smiling when you said, and this and a new mother. And some mothers with breastfeeding or just life are having a lot of oxytocin sucked out of them. It's good, and it can be like, wow, I feel drained. It can be the stress of midnight or middle of the night feedings or whatever. Maybe I'm not as social as I'd like to be. We could keep going down the line, not just each individual stressor, but now the compound nature of that. And we're not even talking about a little depression in there. Certainly, we are talking, but we're not specifically right now talking about anything postpartum. Postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, or it could be a postpartum psychosis. The woman says, hey, get away from all this counseling stuff. I feel like I'm going crazy up in here. And their husband might think, yeah, I'm scared. It feels like I don't know what to do, which is very classic. So just add up the compound nature of these things. I literally, as I said, would just take them before you even go to counseling or sit with a friend, write them down and kind of like this plus this plus this, except if we imagine there was a 100% or just a 10, one through 10 scale, add up like, okay, I'm gonna add these up. I'm at a 10 or I'm at 98% with that. And know that life will have stresses. The word of God in this world, we're all gonna have some time of struggles, of tribulation, and we must not throw the total word out. If somebody goes and gets on a treadmill and does some good self-care, it can feel they are literally stressing their body in a healthy way. In this world, we're gonna have stressors. I just wanna look at if I am not addressing each stressor, look at the compound nature of that and then getting outside of myself to have a meaningful conversation. It may be a married young or middle-aged mom who says, hey, no offense, but my husband just can't go there with me like a good girlfriend can. That's information. And sometimes what we do as therapists, we're paid friends, we're paid listeners, and we interact and we say, my line I use a lot is someone says, look at all these stressors, does this make sense? And I go, everything you said makes sense. Just to be heard, right? My hub, H-U-B, I hear you, I understand you, and I believe you. You can do that friend to friend. And it's, may I say, and I'll conclude and comment on this point. Friends, it's our job. It is my job, it is Shae's job, it is your job to reach out and say, hello, I need help. I wouldn't just have it with one person if they're busy or something. And never say, can I get a minute? I realize I would probably love 12.7 minutes of conversation initially. Do you, you know, you've heard this line from me, do you have it to give? Oh, then is there a time we may? Because often what that is, is friendship, coffee cup counseling. Just sit and be with me and tell me I'm not crazy. Yeah, that's so good. You gotta reach out and say, hey, I'm not doing well. Shae Hill: Yeah, I think that's so good. And I know that that's so hard and challenging. I really like how you mentioned, not just saying I'm stressed, but really taking inventory of the individual stressors and kind of looking at those categorically and almost you could maybe even score yourself of like, okay, on a range of one to 10, where am I at in this area? And then that may give you some guardrails that you, or some handles even that you feel like you could enter a conversation with a friend and feel like you're not just gonna word vomit, that you actually have some things that you want to share. Something that you said a little bit ago when we were talking about being out of alignment, when you were talking about people pleasing was holding this thing up to the light and saying, why does this have so much power over me? And although our friend, Dr. Joel Muddamalle is not on today's conversation, I know something he's talked a lot about is idolatry. And I think that when we're out of alignment, the affections of our heart, things are getting misconstrued. And so when things are out of alignment, we start to hold certain things as a priority over the Lord or our relationship with the Lord or living up to the person that he has called us to be. And we start giving in to some of maybe these other individual stressors. So Jim, I know you talk a lot about shame in your counseling work, but how can we go straight to the Lord after we've taken inventory of our life, after we've taken inventory of these individual stressors, instead of turning to shame, we're gonna ask a friend to go to coffee, but also how do we kind of box this out with the Lord? How do we go to him and have him tend to us in a difficult season of mental health? Jim Cress: Well, I love the wisdom that was stated in the very question. Often that happens with people. I will say, hang on, there's wisdom in the question you've asked versus giving an answer. And Joel and I use this a lot in presentations. We don't call it question and answer. We call it a question and response. So I will respond. Wisdom in what you've said about what I call going vertical. So the idea when something is going on accessibly to our minds, I can access this quicker, is I'd rather go horizontal. Phone a friend and all like that. And fine, if you do that. I just like to know out of 10 times when something comes up for you, how many of those times first, as it talks about in the book of Kings, first second Kings, talks about first seek the counsel of the Lord. And by yourself in what I call a silo, in your silo to say, I wanna seek God's counsel first. I don't know how much you all know. I know you know a lot, is just in this book alone. That's the idea of being in this word consistently, not perfectly, meditatively, memorizing scripture, your word of I hid in my heart that I might not sin against you. So there are resources there. And then to go vertical. And you know, people say, do you pray every day? And my answer to me is, oh yeah, for specific things, people pray for us as we came down to do this podcast. And it's like in that moment, what's the point of it? I have gotten old enough that my point in prayer, if nothing else is, A, it's commanded in scripture. And B, I'm just saying, God, would you help me? But I won't chokehold God, you better take me out of this now. The word for lust, which is the same word for desire in the Greek in the New Testament, it's empty. It means an empty cup, a crucible, epithumia. And why are we talking about Greek here? It's important. So what happens is loneliness, depression, anxiety, even sexual lust, whatever it is, the itty bitty pity committee, you know, we've talked about that for me, that will feel the emptiness of the cup and sinful, unhealthy ways will try to fill the emptiness of the cup. And I say appropriately, feel before you fill. In that moment, to go to God and say, look at Psalm 51, have mercy on me, O God. And we're pleading with God. If there's any way, let this cup pass for me. Three times, take this thorn away from me. Don't be going, I would say, do not be going constantly on the horizontal with people, places or things, to fill a need that first ought to be addressed vertically. And that is just becomes a practice in faith. We call it orthodoxy is what you believe. Orthopraxy is what you put into practice, right? That's the piece of saying mindfully. Okay, and then go wild, go horizontal, call as many friends as you want, it's fine. But can I say, God have mercy on me. God help me, Lord, search my heart, search me, know me God, Psalm 139. There's plenty to do vertically. And last thing, we all know this. Let us not be foxhole Christians or 9-11 Christians, that I don't go vertical till a crisis hits my life. You were training with neuroplasticity, what we would posit, negative neuroplasticity of your brain that God, I don't pick up the phone to call you. I don't pick up your word. I really pray until 9-11. And you've wired your brain. What I wanna be is proactively that I got a rhythm and a flow with God doing this regularly. You know how you know that? That's what you want in a marriage. The only time we really talk is when we wanna have sex. Or the only time we really talk if there's a problem in the finances, we have to be in a flow, intimacy, intimacy. We wanna do that in relationships. Hey, I never call my friend. And some friends say, you know, you never call me until you need something. How about we just do lunch and talk about something fun? So that's our relationship to go vertical before we go horizontal. Shae Hill: Yeah, that's so good, Jim. I'm glad that you mentioned that because I feel like this is not just a spiritual practice, but it's a very practical process, to daily process with the Lord. And I love how you even just said the prayer of God, will you help me? I mean, such an honest prayer of like, if you don't know what to say, just asking that. We've mentioned, you know, going to the Lord, going vertically. We've also mentioned going horizontally and asking if you can sit before someone in person, if you can. And processing, which is like a community aspect, getting that support. What are some other, if any, practical kind of things that you see in some of the mentally healthiest people that you know? Or when you, Jim, are at your mentally healthiest, what kind of practices are in your daily rhythms or routines? Well, and I do know you put this in your last question, so I'm gonna hearken back to it. And it responds to this excellent question you've asked. Shame. You know, I teach on that. My acrostic is self-hatred at most, at my expense. I think a lot of people go, really? I don't know that, I hate myself. Give me five minutes with you and to talk and I'll hear this self-condemnation. So looking at, and I believe more than just a cute quote or something that might go in a book or something, when I am doing self-hatred at my expense, shame, I am far away from Psalm 51. A broken and contrite heart and spirit God will not despise. So when I go to shame back to Joel‘s word in the word I use a lot about calling our struggles responses even some mental health responses for Christians to say I think there’s idolatry there. A lot of our sin is a disorder out of order of worship. So inside it so if something hits me if I’m going to shame and very terrible self-talk and putting myself down, I am ever more moving away from alignment with God and who I really am in my identity in Christ not just away from God I’m out of alignment mental health or emotional and spiritual chiropractic. People go to Chiropractors all the time fine! They get realigned in their spine I’ll say you need to have daily mental and spiritual chiropractic get back aligned with God. You catch yourself in shame putting yourself down maybe even a type of complaining say Lord I stop right now. In Romans our sins should shut our mouths Just stop and say God, He was like Jimbo I was like I just went down the itty bitty pitty committee. There I know I’m doing it self-awareness ladies and gentlemen self-awareness is the number one thing you want in all discipleship coaching and therapy why when I’m self-aware that’s my stuff I know who I need to call anyone I need to go vertical and literally can we just say it I need to win this moment Meno is the Greek word I need to repent why is it important to gain the Greek word I stopped that internal dialogue right away and I begin to turn Metanoia and go 180 I’m condemning myself and I literally hear the father or Jesus with the Holy Spirit say do you think you think you know don’t you buddy go have very intimate with Jesus as though he is with me he never does he condemned me remember the word of God Jesus looked up upon them with compassion. That’s when you know, when you get that self- awareness folks you will begin to smile and go hey without a therapists or calling my good friend Shae, I caught myself right there! I repented of it and Lord I am not going to do that anymore for Romans 8:1. What people will do, they will live the end of Romans 7, Paul said I’m a hot mess. I mean the things I know, I’m Paul! The things I know I should do I don’t and what I should not be doing I do. Talk out loud to yourself. Nehemiah 5:7 Sister that’s wrong. I repent of that. I have the word of God to speak over that. And I am going to tell you and I will stop here. You know what folks, It’s just not that hard to do. Saint Paul Philippians four Listen – he said you know the things we’ve learned and seen, with a Lysa Bibel study, at Haven Place, or my goodness hopefully we put out some good material at therapy theology, Paul said all that learning, you read good boundaries and goodbyes, That’s great! Go put into practice! Shae that’s the biggest thing I see in all my group work and my individual work, is people will leave they’ll come back and say I need to check in more than you would know and they’ve not put into practice all the hard work they did in a three day intensive I never shamed them go all right sounds like maybe you’re more ready this time but that’s put stuff into practice even off this podcast when you learn things go put it into practice Shae Hill: That’s so good and honestly that’s so relatable because think whether it be for so many reasons why they those things into practice. I don’t know if its procrastination or they have a mental block they can’t get passed or they just feel overwhelmed. Or they don’t know where to start but if you’re listening today and maybe this isn’t your first season that you have had a tough go with your mental health, I hope that you are encouraged today. That the best time to start is right now. You don’t have to shame yourself. In the past where you felt like you fell short or the things you didn’t do to be better by now or anything like that. I have ever heard, I think our Pastor at our church actually had another acronym for shame. And of course I was thinking of you Jim. It was, it speaks to that self-talk which is was “should have already mastered everything” - S.H.A.M.E. Jim Cress: That’s good! Shae Hill: And I think that we can just get stuck on that loop of like, shame will keep you from making any forward progress if you tell yourself I should have already I should have already Mastered this! You know! And so, the best time to start is right now! Take inventory of your life. Take inventory of these areas of these areas we mentioned and don’t be afraid to be honest! I think that’s one of the best things you can do is to be brutally honest. And to say this is where I am at! That is where true healing can take place. I hope that people are encouraged today that even if they’ve tried to make progress before its not too late for them. Jim Cress: And remember the wisdom of Shae, you’re putting out and I love this about you, you’re putting out all kinds of gold nuggets. The first ok maybe the second but at least I think the first help me here folks, question you see God ask it’s the first one certainly after the fall, had to deal with A. What’s happened? Who told you this? But then when he gets to Adam, what was that first question next? Adam Where are you? So in that, borrow that and what’s your red dot? The red dot in the mall directory says you are here. Let’s start, every journey every conversation should check in. You and I did it here before we came on screen. Or before we were first on screen. Hey, what’s been going on. How were you holidays and all that’s fine but the idea of God saying Where are you? So the Father, Son and The Holy Spirit are saying girl, guy, awesome woman, my child, where are you? What’s really going on and if you’re bored, I have taught it so many times in Nehemiah 2 there are 4 questions listed and listen to them. The king is asking, Nehemiah, now you can use these in every coffee cup counseling session or friendship question one is what is what’s going on cause he saw me was sad he said I saw you were sad and I know you’re not sick question one is just what’s going on. Question two is what do you really want? Question three says how long is it gonna take probably for you to work on this anxiety depression some of the childhood as I was a victim of childhood sexual abuse miracle problems and other other things is how long is it gonna take to take more than one coffee conversation. And then that fourth question implied not stated as what do you need? What do you need for the journey, we resource of people oh my how much we’ve tried to resource people in therapy in theology. Here are some tools the books that we have they’re there like here are some tools for you but then you gotta put those in into practice starting with the fundamental when you see someone sad all man I don’t wanna ask but ask person and say I’ve got five minutes tell me what’s really going on for you right there are four questions you can reference me Nehemiah chapter 2 Shae Hill: That’s so good! I think that’s such a good way to close today Jim thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and being our favorite resident counselor on the podcast so good to be with you today! Jim Cress: Always good to be with you remember Nehemiah 2:18 for the good hand of our God is upon us for good. Shae Hill: Amen And now, it's time for Listener Mail, where we respond to YOUR questions. Today’s Listener Mail is brought to you by Compassion International, which I’m excited to tell you more about. Compassion is fighting child poverty in powerful, practical ways. Through the work of local churches and the generosity of sponsors like you and me, Compassion is releasing children from poverty in Jesus’ name. We’ve seen the impact of sponsorship firsthand through education, medical care, healthy food, clean water, and the love and hope of the Gospel. And now we want to invite you to join us in sponsoring a child. When you sponsor, you’ll receive a copy of the Proverbs 31 Ministries study guide titled Keep Holding On as our thanks for investing in the life of a child. Go to Compassion.com/lysa to choose a child to sponsor today. Ok friends let’s here today question this listener asks “What is the healthy and Christian way to reconcile with someone, specifically when there is complex trauma in the relationship? I want to forgive like the Lord does.” Our friend and favorite theologian Dr. Joel Muddamalle is going to tackle this one. Joel Muddamalle: I think one of the first things I would say is to remember that the Bible talks about forgiveness in terms of releasing an offense and pardoning an offense those are the terms that are used in the New Testament. There is also a third term which a grace laced term forgiveness so one we want to understand what the bible says about forgiveness, and what it’s not saying about forgiveness. It is absolutely about a release of an offense; the bible doesn’t demand reconciliation but does want us to seek it out if it’s possible. And so, it terms of how to reconcile in the presence of complex trauma, I think it’s important to remember, that all trauma and all forgiveness come in two parts. Often Jim Cress says you have the fact and the impact. It is going to take time and humility and really a commitment to process all of this through the impact of what has taken place. We forgive the fact of what has happened, we release that and let it go. And then we have to remember that forgiveness is really, I like to think of it like a -ing verb it is about forgiving. And learning how to forgive the areas of impact that become exposed to us. Especially when it comes to trauma triggers every time we are triggered, we are being invited back into the process of forgiving the impact of what’s taken place and again you just really want to have some solid Christian voices in your life. I would have a couple girlfriends that love the Jesus more that they love you. I said it the way that I meant. You want them to continually point you to the ethics to the kingdom of God and to the ways of Jesus. You want to be praying and in step with the Holy Spirit, Galatians 5, and really pursue the Lord in those things to see if reconciliation is possible to do it in a way that does not undermined your dignity and the image of God that you bear. Hope that helps friend!