Latest / Breaking the ICE / Episode 14 - Why Nobody Loves Motor Insurance (and How to Fix It)

Transcript

Episode 14 - Why Nobody Loves Motor Insurance (and How to Fix It) · Breaking the ICE

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome everybody to uh the Ice Breaking the Ice podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: We are now on season one, episode 14.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like we're uh we're getting through these at a rate of night.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here on my own today, just me.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you'll be pleased to know that uh you won't have to just put up with me for the uh the entire uh the entire podcast because we're joined today with uh with a very illustrious guest, um Steve Loudwill, who will be talking to us uh throughout this podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Going to be asking him some some questions about his background and and what he's up to, and and this is a really opportune time to be having this conversation because uh some really exciting things going on in Steve's world.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So great to be here.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Steve, how are you?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very good, Lloyd.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for the uh the very nice introduction now.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever been referred to as illustrious before.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll uh I'll treasure that one as a thank you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can bank that one, Steve.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I can indeed.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I I guess what's what's been going on with you?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's new in your world at the moment?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well well, quite a lot, as you know.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um we've been super busy setting up uh setting up the new business or businesses, as I should say.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um I guess most people would only try to set up one business at a time, but we thought we'd we'd push things out a little bit and set up three instead.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: So just to make things really, really easy.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So there's always new things going on, which is great.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's a lot of fun and super enjoyable.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm really lucky to be working with some of the some of the best people I've ever worked with.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: It makes it it makes it a pleasure.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: It really does.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Not a um not a grey hair in sight, Steve.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if I turn profile, there is quite a few, but they're all they're all down the sides.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm more worried about the stuff that's going backwards, to be fair, Lloyd.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: As my kids keep reminding me, Dad, you're you're starting to thin a bit, Bless them.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm uh I think I've got the same challenge, mate, in the corners.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I know exactly what you're what you're what you're feeling.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you know you've you've spent a long time in insurance and reinsurance, and yeah, be just keen to understand really how you how you kind of got into the industry in the first place, and a bit a bit of your backstory just for our our listeners, if that's all right.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Completely by accident is the honest answer, and I think that's probably true of most people I've ever met.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I've met one person who did an actual insurance degree, so from a very young age, they really wanted to go and work into it.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: But for the rest of us, I think it's just a complete and utter accident, not planned at all, but once you get into it, actually it's rather good fun, I have to say.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I did um I did a maths and stats degree at Exeter, which was a fantastic place to study, and I came out of that, and it was what can I do with with this knowledge and passion for numbers and being slightly geeky in that respect.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh there happened to be an insurance company based down in Kent in Sittingbourne, and I applied for a job there as a reinsurance technician.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea really what insurance was, I definitely didn't know what reinsurance was, uh, and I just turned up for the interview.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it seemed to be a lot of working with numbers and working with spreadsheets, which suited me absolutely fine.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I got the job and started there, and um I've been stuck in it ever since.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to say, looking back, I probably couldn't have picked uh a more suitable career for myself, but it was it was just by accident, no planning there at all.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you, I think every single person I've ever spoken to has kind of said the same thing.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: We don't really quite know how we got here, and now we're here, there's no getting out, you're kind of you're in it.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh it's easy, you're right.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great industry, and and again, you know, sometimes it's it's about I think kind of educating people on on what we're doing, you know, what what insurance is all about, what it's providing, the safety net that it gives to a lot of different people.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think, you know, I know talking to you, Steve, over the last few months, that's that's a big part of what you're trying to do with iCOCO.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it'd be great for our for our viewers if if you're able to give a bit of background on on kind of what iCOCO is, what what's the idea, what what's it going to be doing, and how's it gonna be helping?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, happy to.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it is, I mean, as you say, it is actually a fantastic industry.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think um I think it's got a bit of a bad reputation, unfortunately, at the moment.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'll be honest with you, when I'm when I'm out and about and people start asking what do you do, and uh you say I work in motor insurance, um you can imagine the response is not typically, oh well that sounds fantastic and how exciting and what a wonderful industry to work in.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually a grunt or a uh uh a question of can I get them cheaper insurance or a complaint about the poor experiences that they've had.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's quite sad, really, because you think about the value the product gives, and it's it's not necessarily about the person buying the policy, it's protecting everybody else.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you have an accident and hit another car, you injure some other people.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, someone's got to pay for for all of that.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And without insurance, without motor insurance, it would fall back on the person driving the car which caused the accident.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you're talking about claims which can get into the millions of pounds here.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's really there to protect everyone else on the road around you.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the experiences of customers has got to the point where you kind of forget what the value is, and it's just it's very difficult with a product which is intangible because you're buying you're buying a promise at the end of the day, aren't you?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you uh order something on Amazon, it arrives the next day, you get to open it up and it's there, you pay this money and you sit there for a year, and hopefully you never need to use it, and you do the same the following year and the following year, and maybe that one year where you get to use it, if the experience isn't great, it doesn't leave you in a in a good place.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me it's been quite interesting working on the side of providing insurance policies to customers at the same time as obviously being a customer, so I have to buy motor insurance as well, and you get to learn how everything works, and then you get to experience what it's like as an actual customer.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's been a couple of times when I've had to make a claim and the experience has been really poor, and I feel like we've we've let people down, and so it's it's really quite quite sad.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And let me ask you this.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you had to guess what the rest of the public would score motor insurance like as a as an industry, and you said, look, um, between naught and five, with five being you think motor insurers are fantastic, you love the products, um, they couldn't do more to look after you.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: When you have an issue, they sort it out for you.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll give them a five, or a naught would be they've got a long way to go.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you think most people most people land with that question?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, having having the people kind of having these conversations with me around, you know, oh I I I the c the cost goes up every year and it doesn't really, you know, I don't understand what I'm buying, and all of the different frustrations I hear, it's got to be a one or a two.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it it's it's you're about right with that, by the way, which is really sad, isn't it?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's not fantastic, and obviously everyone has to buy it.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um now that to me would make would make sense if you looked at the motor insurers and they were making an absolute fortune every single year.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: But what the public doesn't see is that actually most years overall motor insurers lose money.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it just it just seems it just feels like things are broken.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a fantastic product there, which customers overall don't seem to like buying, but they have to, and which the insurers are selling but seem to struggle to make uh a profit from it.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it just it just all feels all feels wrong.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I wanted to do something about that.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of wanted to maybe give it a bit of a makeover is a best way to describe it, and suddenly and make it something which people valued and appreciated and make the product better for them, um, so that it was a more valued product as well.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the heart of ICOCO.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And to do that, we had to had to look at the current industry uh and why it was the way it was.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think the feeling is that it's just structurally challenged.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whether you look at the distribution side and you think about customers and all the different ways they could go and buy an insurance policy, whether it's direct with an insurer, through one of the price comparison sites, um, through your supermarket, through a broker, there's so many different ways to go and buy a policy.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it comes to the claim side, there's lots of parties involved there as well, and it just is quite a complicated market for what is quite a simple product at the end of the day.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, quite a few challenges there.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the market's just got itself in a position where it's so stuck it's really hard to break out of it and do something completely different.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Was there, I mean, you know, there's a lot of things going on there in in terms of what you're you're saying, Steve, and all very relevant.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: But was there was there a real particular kind of moment of frustration where you thought there's got to be a better way of doing this?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is it I need to bring to the to the fore and and change for the better?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean it's a it's a great question.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is there is there one thing?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not probably not one thing in all fairness.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a string of things.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think the main one was actually being involved in an accident myself, um, which wasn't anything to do with with our driving.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um I was in the car with my partner, Katie, she was driving, and we're on the motorway in a reduced speed zone down to 50 miles an hour.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um there was a a lane next to us which was a works lane, and so they'd taken off one of the lanes of the motorway, and we're all just travelling along at 50, absolutely fine.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And a works van just pulled out a few cars in front, but at the last minute, and it caused the car just behind it to slam on their brakes to prevent hitting it, which made the car behind that slam on their brakes.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, they didn't impact the car in front, and we were the one behind that, so we hit our brakes and we stopped two feet short of the car in front, and you have this moment of oh, that was close, and then suddenly you both check the mirrors thinking, what about the car behind?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you have a fraction of a second to realise the car behind hasn't slowed down at all, and then it hits you, and you come to in the car, and the car I thought was full of smoke.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it wasn't, it was the contents of the airbag, uh, which was a relief.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but obviously it's quite a shocking experience, and then you know, the car's all in a mess.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Katie, uh it's quite funny.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I turned to Katie and said, Turn the car off.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: That was my first reaction.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And Katie did that, and the next thing she did was press the hazard light button.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Honey, I don't think the rear of the car's there anymore to actually have any benefits.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: But bless you, it was the first thing that she thought of when she uh when she did it, and we had we had our cock-poo in the back of the car, and the poor thing had been slammed off the seat.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily, it had its seatbelt on and everything, but yeah, so the next thing you just want to get out of the car.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the the car's all crumpled up, the door wouldn't open properly.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I managed to kick it open, and we managed to get out of the car and go to the side.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you look back, honestly.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, full credit to Toyota, by the way, we're in a Toyota Yarris, and it's a lot smaller after the accident than it was before.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty small, yeah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's pretty small anyway.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, the rear of the car has been caved in by the impact from the car behind, but it pushed us into the car in front, so both the front and back of the car were crumpled.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we had no major injuries at all, which was fantastic.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the airbags, the the car crumpling did its job, but a really unpleasant situation to be in.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously there's lots of things that are going on at that point in time, but at some point you have to phone the insurance company and explain what's happened.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to say, phoning our insurer was it was a terrible experience.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely terrible.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I really didn't like that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the situation was one where you wanted that help at that point in time, and it just couldn't have been any worse.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: As it happened, the insurer for the car which hit us, they actually did a fantastic job, um, which was really good.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it just left me with a really poor feeling about the state of the market at that stage.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was the the CEO for a motor insurer at that time, so I could see it from both sides, and we we did a cracking job of looking after our customers, but you could never get it right all the time.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we'd had some experiences where other parties in the chain just got in the way of delivering a great customer service and it reflected badly on us, and I just wanted to do wanted to do something about it, essentially.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, lots of lots of little niggly things over the years, and it just comes to that point where you decide, okay, I can complain about it or I can go and do something to to change it.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's often in those kind of emotive situations, you know, like you said, you know, a real shocking moment for you and and your partner.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it must have been uh it must have been a nightmare.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you you do also, I mean, I like you, I I've had some some pretty interesting insurance claims over the last few years where actually the service has been absolutely superb.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in that kind of emotive moment, you think, God, when when when they get it right, you really appreciate how important it is.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, no, it's great that you've you know you've uh you've taken it on to try and try and make it uh make it better for everybody.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I guess, you know, coming back to one of the things you mentioned at the beginning of the of the introduction, Steve, around kind of you've you've gone out and tried to to tackle this by starting three businesses.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and and I'll I'll be pleased to say and hold up my hand, I am a member of the of the Icoco Club, which as I understand it is uh is a another component to this and is now live.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um for somebody hearing about it the the kind of first time, what what what's the club and what are you trying to create?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's going on with that?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: What what can we do?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it maybe it's a complicated way to do things, but we felt it was the only way to really deliver on things.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um when you when you look at people spending money on insurance and you break it down, there's obviously the money that goes towards paying claims, but then there's part of what you pay which goes to lots of other things.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Part of that is you know the cost of acquiring a customer, marketing spend and and fees and all these other bits and pieces.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually quite a big chunk of what people pay.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of go, well, is it really delivering value for money for those customers in what they pay there?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And is there a way that I could find a way for customers to come to us where we didn't have to pay to acquire them, and I could take some of that money and pass it on to the customer as a saving to give them a better deal?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if at the same time I could keep some of that and actually put it towards paying the claims so actually we could give them a better claims experience as well.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I kind of wondered whether there was a way to do it.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: But then the question is, how do you get people to come to you at no cost?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: You have to create something they want to want to join.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just felt that creating something which was just about motor insurance just seemed a bit boring and that people have done it before, and it wouldn't it wouldn't achieve anything.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: People would just look at it and say, Oh, you know, people have done this before, it won't succeed.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it happened to coincide with just some personal goals as well, which is you know, I've I've worked incredibly hard for 30 years, I've travelled a massive amount.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite sad.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't actually know my neighbours particularly well, I don't know my local community well.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I love where I live in Ludlow, up in Shropshire.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful place, it's a beautiful town, and I wanted to be a bigger part of that.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just very conscious as well that you know, people are struggling at the same point, you know, financially.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: The businesses in my town are struggling as well.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, wouldn't it be great to do something which helps people and helps communities?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think at my heart, I'm kind of the person who I actually quite like helping other people, it makes me feel good.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So um we wanted to create something which helps an awful lot of people.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we created a community club um called iCoco, and it's got five things which we're looking to do.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll ask you, I'll ask you five questions and it gives you a feel for what the club is all about.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the first one is do you like the idea of safer roads for you, your friends, and your family?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Most definitely.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you say yes to this.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Most definitely.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone has to, I'm sure I'll find someone to say no at some point, which will be an interesting conversation.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: But so far, everyone says yes.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the second one is do you like the idea of um helping charities and good causes?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's brilliant.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then just thinking about people's financial situation, do you like the idea of being able to save some money on the things you buy day to day?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'll try my best to, Steve, yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Without doubting.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can see why you remember, Lloyd.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's fantastic.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then the fourth part of that is wouldn't it be great if you could earn some rewards for just doing those first three things, nothing else, as an extra bonus?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, definitely.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then the really big one, and and this is where it gets quite important, is do you like the idea of owning a share in the business which delivers all of that, and it doesn't cost you anything to own that share?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's what the club's all about.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea is if you could picture an online community, so wherever you live, all the people in in the area you live, all the businesses, or the charities, all the schools, you know, everyone's already part of a community in real life.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to create this online version to make the most of the existing connections people have and to use that to derive value for those members, whatever member type they are.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a charity, you can come and join our COCO, and we'll do loads of things for you for free because we want to help you.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So by default, if we charge you money, that's not really helping you.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to increase your visibility as a charity member by making you visible to all the other members that we have.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: We want to try and save you money by giving you access to deals and other things.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we want to help support your cause.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So other members, if they earn some rewards by being part of the club, they can agree to donate it at a later stage.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in addition, we're committed to putting a percentage of profits every single year towards charitable causes as well.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So as a charity, it's uh it's a bit of a no-brainer, I would hope, to join.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we want businesses to come and join as well and individuals to come and join because there's there's something in it for everyone.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, this was the way to create something where people would come to it just because of all the things it can offer.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about insurance.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think if we made it just about insurance, it wouldn't have the appeal.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to create something else.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we've got a massive listing of events, by the way.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the fun bits.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you can go on there.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think we've now got close to 30,000 events listed on the site, which is you can go in it, you search on your local area, and it'll bring up all the stuff near to you, what's going on, and you can start to plan your family time.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know about you, Lloyd, when you know you're finding stuff to do with your family.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's great.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always struggling to think of what to do next with the kids.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you go on this, you find the events, you put it in your little calendar, and you go, Great, but I'm now sorted and something else I can do.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it helps me be a bigger part of my community as well.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: So joining in stuff that the people around me are doing as well.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's got a lovely, lovely feel to it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's free for everyone to join, by the way.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just no restrictions for why you shouldn't come and join the club and see what we're doing.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's really cool.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the event piece is is an interesting one, actually.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Even for that alone, it's really useful because I mean, a bit like you, we'll get to a bank holiday weekend and think, oh, is there a band on?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is there an event on?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is there something going on locally?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll scour around websites and Facebook and things like that.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So to have somewhere to just be able to go and and find that kind of information is is useful in itself.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I love the the kind of um the the the piece there around kind of save, earn and own, and and that's going to be something that uh that people will see if they go and and take a look at the Ico Code Club website, which I would definitely recommend.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're happy to to post a link up as as part of this.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, go on, take a look, join up.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um as Steve said, you know, there's there's there's a much bigger kind of social purpose behind this than simply selling insurance.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And Steve and I have talked personally about things like um schools, charities and and local businesses.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and and again, I've uh I've had a chat locally with my kids school and trying to encourage those guys to get to to to do something there with the icoco club, so you know the uh the po possibilities are in this.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, go and take a look.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've been one of our biggest fans, Lloyd, which has been brilliant.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I should have won some sort of pom-poms and you know, flashed a sign, shouldn't I?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, definitely.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you've got to be.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then next time you can you can wear some icoco banders as well.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be an Icoco fanboy, absolutely, absolutely.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I think genuinely, you know, I've done insurance for 20 years, like you, but a little bit more.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's refreshing to hear something that's you know about giving something back because it's uh you know, to your point, the mindset is very much around I pay for something, not really happy with it, it goes up every year, I'm still not really happy with it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So to try and flip it on its head somewhat is uh is exciting.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it's quite challenging as well, but it's a lot of fun.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think the one thing we'd be really pleased to deliver at the end of the day is at the moment, I think when you buy insurance, it's very much a transaction, isn't it?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you pay for your cover for one year, you might buy it from one insurer one year, another insurer the next year, another insurance.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a transaction.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and we wanted to go a bit further and try and create a proper relationship.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we think there's benefits to doing that in that the the relationship has a higher it's got a higher level of engagement.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you've got a true relationship there, there's there's extra things that you bring to that relationship, whether you're a customer or an insurer.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a a lot of that is around behaviour.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you look at a lot of the issues within the market, and you could probably distill it down to behaviour at the end of the day.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, insurers don't treat the customers well sometimes.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they probably feel under pressure in terms of always trying to spend as little as possible on claims, even if that's not to the benefit of the uh the claimant at the end of the day.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Customers, if they don't feel they're getting a great deal, well they don't really feel obliged to to handle the claim in the best way from their side, you know, cooperating in a really good way.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: If it costs a bit more to settle the claim, do they really care?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: They'll go to another insurer.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the sad part is at the end of the day, the customer pays for absolutely everything.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's all coming from their premiums.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you could find a way for customers to behave better and take all those extra costs out, and you know, the insurers on the other side could appreciate that and trust their customers more when there was less fraud, they could probably reduce their premiums overall.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a massive industry to drive a huge change through like back on the behavioural side, and it probably requires a lot of trust, which I just don't think there is at the moment.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So our hope is that the club is seen as a member first, trusted entity.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're here to look after you, and we just happen to provide insurance for you as well.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it's insurance for our members, and whenever we do that, it's going to be member first when we're dealing with you from an insurance point of view, as well as everything else we're doing for you as well.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's trying to create a very trusted environment and a good relationship with our members.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a good point to come on to.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we talk about trust in in motor insurance, and I think you know that that comes through quite a bit when we're talking about ICOCO.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, there's definitely things the industry gets right, there's definitely things the industry gets wrong.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what what do we think what do we think is going really well in that in that industry right now versus what could be what could we be doing better?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool, that was a cracker.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Where where to start with that one?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think I don't think any insurers set out to not look after their customers at the end of the day.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually, having seen it from the insurance side, it's it's a really challenging market.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um when you're when you're trying to handle a claim, you've got other companies trying to capture the claimants, um, and they might represent that this is because they're doing it for the claimant's benefit, but often it is just pushing up costs um which the insurer has to cover.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when the costs go up, they end up charging the customer more premium.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think they I think they do their best, but it's a really difficult one.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a huge amount of regulation.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you've got the regulator probably picking up on a few things recently where they've said the industry has failed customers, which is not great.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I don't necessarily think it's deliberate.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's down to the structure of things um and the way things have kind of developed over the years.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um bizarrely, it's it's a hugely competitive market as well.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's massive in size.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of competition to win customers, and maybe sometimes a premium isn't enough, and it causes the insurer to do other things like charging high fees, high premium financing, all sorts of bits and pieces.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really hard to get an overall view of the customer being happy when they might like their motor premium, but they don't like the fees if they cancel their policy.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many ways to upset a customer, it's it's quite difficult at the moment.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it definitely gets a bit of a bad reputation.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's been a few failures with insurers as well, which have left customers in a poor position.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So there's definitely things on both sides where where it could improve, um, the customer side and the insurer side.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's still a lot of it comes back to just behaviour on both sides and conduct.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if we could improve that, there's uh there's a win for everyone.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think in fairness, you're you're absolutely right in in kind of you know that competitive nature, certainly of the UK market.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we are a highly developed market from an insurance perspective, so especially a motor.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, you know, from an ICE perspective, we talk to people about motor propositions in other territories, and there's just things there that they don't even consider because it just doesn't happen.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that definitely adds another another dynamic to um to being able to offer a service and ensure you're doing a good job, as well as of course be be competitive and and and make money, you know, and and and that's what businesses are also there to do.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's uh it's difficult.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think technology probably plays a big part, and this is why I've enjoyed the conversations with you guys as well, because you know, lots of insurers they've got these systems which they've had for an awful long time.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and things have moved along, but you know, as with every piece of software, every computer, it's got limitations around what you can do.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, as much as you'd like to do certain things, it just you know it's kind of a case of computer says no, but that probably leads to frustration with the customer.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been incredible the last two years to watch the development of AI and the capabilities that it's bringing.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's presented a whole new range of challenges as well, which you guys are are seeing firsthand in terms of older systems versus the new capabilities and how do you bring them together?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you don't have the right technology, you'll you're really going to struggle.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you're in a you're in a really good spot in terms of how you've structured things.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's why why we've engaged as well for conversations.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, there's loads of challenges to do um on the technology side, but great technology is a way to deliver a great customer experience.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's not quite there, with the best will in the world, you just can't you can't always do it, unfortunately.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, agreed.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know that AI piece is is is a really important question.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, we're hearing about it every day, whether it be in our professional lives or on the news and whatnot.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and we've talked about it on podcasts actually in relation to how we're using it in internally at ICE and and also how we're we're developing a really cool suite of products as part of our Alice suite to kind of really sort of turbocharge and and help the insurers and prospects that we're working with do things differently, but do things differently with a meaningful outcome.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of talk around doing something in AI, but I think you've got to do something that makes a difference, and and that's something we're really keen on.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: I guess, you know, what what have you found with the you know, it's been great talking to you, and and I'm super excited to to to kind of work with you on the insurance piece, and and you know, from an ICE perspective, what about the engagement have you seen that kind of fits what you're trying to build at ICOCA?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think I've probably had some of the nicest conversations ever with our prospective or new members.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um so just engaging with some of the charities who've already joined, and when you when you talk to them, you meet some of the nicest people ever in terms of they've given up huge amounts of their lives to look after other people.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's quite it's probably quite humbling, if I'm honest with you.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I've spent years working in industries where it's about making money.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you can look back at it and go, well, everyone was doing it, it seemed to be the okay thing to do, and I I always did things to the best of my ability.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: But did it really help a lot of people or did it make a lot of money for people who already had quite a bit of money?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's possibly the latter, whereas the the people working for these charities, they've just they do things for other people naturally, and they've been absolutely incredible.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I've talked to them about what we're hoping to do in terms of helping them, they've been so appreciative because they're really struggling at the moment.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's been really interesting learning about what's changed for them and why it's uh why it's a struggle.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got things like eBay and vintage and stuff like this, and you go, yeah, they're they're great for reselling clothes.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the charities have said, yeah, but we used to get all those, and we used to be able to sell it and make money to put towards our causes, but now because people can resell, we've got less money than we ever had before, but we're actually seeing more need for what we're providing than ever before.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they're being really squeezed in the in the middle.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So trying to do something which helps them feels really, really good personally from my side.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but these people are just phenomenal.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: They really, really are.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: The amounts of work and time they put in is incredible.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's a similar story with the schools, by the way.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I I met with my son and daughter's school, um, old school earlier, and just talking to the to the head there.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so she's now taking lessons again because they can't afford to hire enough staff to fulfill all their obligations.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're short of funding.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're trying to do things, they're trying to raise money to support their budgets and things, but they're having to cut back.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're working incredibly hard, and it's a lovely little community school.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my kids were super happy there.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the staff are amazing, and they they don't do just school hours, they do so much more outside of it just to keep it running.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, talking to them about how we'd like to help them, they're they're really appreciative of what we're trying to do.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would, if I could get to the end of this year and next year and write some checks for schools and charities, I'd be over the moon.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really would.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: That would that would be a great win, I think, for the business.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes it's the small things as well, isn't it, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just being able to kind of help out with some textbooks or some additional equipment that they might need that they're just struggling with with that budget and and you know, reducing the the need for them to have to go through kind of different different processes in order to get it, which can be challenging.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and to your point, I I was a governor of a school for a while, it was my kids old school, and and again, you know, cracking little community school down in Dorset, you know, they were so caring and considerate and and they produced so many lovely, you know, so many lovely youngsters, which you know is another reason I was I was keen to obviously tell them about what you're up to and how you might be able to help them as as things kind of progress.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, let's let's watch that one.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um watch that one with um with anticipation because I'm sure it'll be a a really good thing, and and yeah, I can't wait to see you see you write some of those checks to help charities and schools as well, it's a great thing.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean fast forwarding a a few years, what what does success look like?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if iCOCO really really does what you've you've got in your head today, um, what's changed for members, what's changed for motorists, and and and how do and what's it gonna do to the wider industry and possibly might turn it on its head?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that question I asked earlier about where you'd score people's experience in motor insurance.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: If if they got closer to a five by doing it through ICOCO, I would be over the moon.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: That would be fantastic.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, it would be looking at how much money we've got to put towards good causes would be incredible.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think creating a working environment for the people working within ICOCO, which was really rewarding, would be the other one.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: So not your traditional, very money-led um insurance market, and you know, I I get that people um do need to earn, but sometimes you look at it and you just think um there's a lot of money in insurance, a huge amount.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, um, but there are some people who really need some help as well.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd rather have a structure where people just they like to come to work, they like the environment, they appreciate how much we help other people, and that's why they're doing it rather than for the money.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that would be incredibly rewarding to have.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and just a place where people were talking positively about it as well.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as a as a member, you know, just helping you have a be a bigger part of your community, um, helping you out, um that that would be a huge win.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: A huge win, I think.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think part of that is gonna is be looking at how many members we've got in each of the categories that we look at.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, have we got lots of individual members?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Have we got business members?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Have we got charity members and schools?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And are we delivering as well as we can for them?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and if we're getting great feedback, yeah, I'd be absolutely delighted.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure when we start doing things like trust pilot reviews and things like that, every every five-star review would be worth its weight and goal for me, really, really, would it be an indication we're doing things right?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And are you seeing that kind of membership account sort of increasing, Steve?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know that when we last spoke it was uh you're you're you're excited about watching the tree grow and and those connections kind of form, which I'd love to see that.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's been we went live on the 11th of September, so it's early days, but we've um we've tipped over the hundred mark for individual members, which doesn't sound like a lot, but we've only just started.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And in all fairness, at this point in time, there's not a huge amount to offer members because we're still in the build mode.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: But we we're looking forward to delivering on our promises.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got um some clubs have signed up already, we've got a number of charities signed up already, we've got a number of businesses signed up already.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the promise that we're giving to people, people are really liking, and now it's down to us to start to deliver on that.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right about the tree.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we're very much around a connected community.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to give as much back as we can.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: We want to say thank you to people for helping us grow.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we're doing this member-led growth approach.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we're asking our existing members to introduce new members.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we feel we're here to help people.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if you introduce someone else, you're kind of helping them anyway, which is a nice thing to do.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we reward for any introductions and for that engagement within the community.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the more you put in, the more you get back, is is the idea we're working on.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, our CTO has created this lovely kind of diagram thing, which which I love to look at.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it shows if you introduce someone, you get this little dot here.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you introduce someone, your dot gets bigger, and you get a little line connected to the next person.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if they introduce someone, it's it's another line connected to them, and your dot grows, and you start to see this little community tree that you're building as part of this bigger one, and it's ridiculously addictive looking at the uh this diagram grow and you can press a button and it starts to populate it in front of you.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's lovely because I kind of feel like we live in the most connected world ever with social media.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got the six degrees of separation comments, haven't you, where you could reach anyone in the world through six connections, and I think it's true, and so you go, Well, it should be quite easy to grow this membership then.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a bit of fun saying, well, if the first person in the club signs up five more people, and then they each of those five signs up five more people, how many layers do we need to get to before we could get the whole of the UK?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to have a guess?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: How many?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not quite as much of a statistician as you, Steve, but I'll I'll have a go.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um how about 20 times?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty times.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not bad, not bad.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's 12.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is it 12?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: 12 layers.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of go, that doesn't sound impossible, does it?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds quite easy because we all know at least five people.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, some of us are connected to thousands of people.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's like, well, actually, the concept should be quite easy.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: As long as we give something people want to join for, um, and we started moving, then surely this should be an easy thing to grow.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it will be a lot harder to get the message out, but you've got so many ways to reach people now, whether it's in-person, whether it's social media, it's WhatsApp groups, it's through your community clubs, it's through your own schools.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: For me, the the opportunity is there to make the most of this um amazing connections with other people.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've found it hilarious on LinkedIn, by the way.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've got people over in Australia and New Zealand and South Africa and Canada and America all connected, and they comment on your post and you go, I've got no idea who these people are, but they kind of you can find that you've got things in common with people all around the world.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's finding things in common which people value.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this kind of goes back to those five questions I asked you about, you know, helping charities and good causes and you know improving road safety, I think there are a few things which can tie us all together.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then after that, people have got their own preferences.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if we can just bring a lot of people together for a few good reasons, I think that's quite a powerful thing to do.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to your earlier question about what does a win look like, from a road safety point of view, if we could look at the number of accidents year on year and see a drop because of better driving behaviour, more awareness, uh, more consideration for other people, less impacted people on the back of those accidents, I would be over the moon.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I really, really would.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's definitely a a target we should all be aiming for, Steve.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, uh jokes aside, um fanboy aside, I think you know what you're trying to do is fantastic.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and I genuinely hope you get there.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and again, there'll be lots of people from a tech and insurance perspective watching this.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Have a look at Icoco Club, join up.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that it's it's a it's a no-lose, um, well worth doing.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um Steve, it's been great talking to you today.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm super excited to to be kind of working with you from a tech perspective and and yeah, just keen to see how it all develops.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and I hope actually, as uh as a guest that's joined us today, we can uh we can tempt you to come back and and tell us a bit more, perhaps when uh when more of uh of these things go live.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be delighted to.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's very early days now, so yeah, absolutely.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: As we start to grow and we start to deliver on stuff, I'd love to come back and and share some more stories because it's all about the members at the end of the day, and they are amazing, and they're gonna be the reason we can grow and deliver on this.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's gonna be a big thank you to them.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks ever so much, Dave, for joining us.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh good boys.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: You too.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming, and thanks to everybody for uh for signing in and looking at the stay ever look at the ico club, and uh we'll see you on the next episode.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.