Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / The science of Heart-Rate Variability and how to manipulate it naturally to reduce stress and boost performance, with Dr Deborah Rozman

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The science of Heart-Rate Variability and how to manipulate it naturally to reduce stress and boost performance, with Dr Deborah Rozman · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Doctor Deborah Rosmand, Welcome to the podcast, all the way
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: from sunny California.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so delighted to be here.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I tell artist, there's what you're looking at your window at.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at a redwood tree outside my window right now,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: one of the big wide redwood trees leaves, and it's gorgeous.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: They are whenever I want to connect with nature.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they are pretty How old are some of the
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: redwoods over there?
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: And are ridiculous something?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, some of them are over two thousand years old.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: They're called old growth redwoods. And you know there's you know,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: there's a by the Redwood State Park here they have
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: a big tree trunk with all the rings and they
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: list the dates. This is what happened here, Here's where
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Jesus was born. Here is where Wow, the revolution was.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: It's just awesome to think that I'd been around so long.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Is pretty magical actually being around very calming, actually being
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: around them, which is a nice.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Little segue to what we're going to talk about.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So, so Debra, you've got a PhD. Tell our listeners
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: about your background.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: What was your PhD in?
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: And then how did you get interested in the area
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: that you're interested. We're going to talk about all things
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: heart rate variability and coherence.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my, well, I try to make this a short
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: background that it started when I was five years old
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: when I had this awareness why am I here? What
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: am I here on the planet for? And I voice said,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: You're here to serve? So I was always looking what
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: that meant and how do I serve? Should I be
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: a kindergarten teacher, a fourth grade teacher, you know, as
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I went up, But eventually I realized that I really
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: want to understand how to change attitudes and this was
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: me and as a teenager, I just knew that was key.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: So I went to the University of chicag to change
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: theory and I became behavioral psychologists. Came out to California
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: to continue my studies at UC Santa Cruz and fell
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: in love with the area. Never really left and developed
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: my doctorate was really in At that time. I got
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: involved with meditation, and meditation for children was my thesis,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: so my doctors and child psychology behavioral psychology, and I
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: was teaching that when I was discovered that you know,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: if I had somebody sit on a pillow and become
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: their head, talking to their heart on another pillow about
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: their problem, and then switched rolls and sat on the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: heart pillow talking to their head, and they went back
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and forth until they finally settled in the heart pillow
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: and had the intuitive inside er, the aha realization. I thought,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: there's something here about these two different domains of perception.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: And then when Doc Children, who's the founder of heart Math,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: told me that he wanted to research in a lab
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: heart intelligence, I went, WHOA, that's what I'm experiencing. Yes,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: So I helped him start the Heartmouth Research Lab, which
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: wasn't called heart Math back then in the nineteen ninety one,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: a long time ago, but we wanted to understand what
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the emotional heart, the energetic heart, and how it connected
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: the physical heart because he anticipated stress increasing and increasing
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: for people's We got more interconnected globally and people needed
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: simple tools, a simple, user friendly system that wasn't based
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: on a particular religion or philosophy, but based on our psychophysics,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: theology how the heart and brain talk to each other.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: So it was right up my alley. And when we
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: research different types of biofeedback to see what was going
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: on in our emotional world, to see what we could
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  Speaker 2: change or reflect. We did Gelvanic's skin response green waves
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: that ways, but it was in the beat to beat
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: changes in heart rate, which is what heart rate variability is.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: That we saw emotional state reflected. And that's that's my story.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: That which is a very interesting story, the whole heart
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  Speaker 1: rate variability, heart coherence.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: So let's just dig into the listeners.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's worthwhile digging a little bit deeper into
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: heart rate variability, and so you as you mentioned, Deborah,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: it is the variability between the time interval between the beats.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: It's not your resting heart rate. It's about the regularity.
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  Speaker 1: And many years ago, I used to just assume that
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: your heart was metronomic. That it was like if it
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: was sixty beats a minute, was your heart it would
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  Speaker 1: beat like a metronome once a second, which is not
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  Speaker 1: the case.
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  Speaker 3: Or if it is the case, you're in a better trouble.
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  Speaker 2: It's not right, Yes, you would be in trouble. What's
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: so interesting is heart rate variability, when we began researching
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: in the early nineteen nineties, was just being used in
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: fetal monitors and to be able to see that your
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: heart rate is actually changing with every single beat, Paul,
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  Speaker 2: it was amazing because that sensitivity is so important for health,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: for well being, and for emotional flexibility. And let me explain,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: because when we're babies, we have the most heart rate variability,
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  Speaker 2: very deep flexibility in the heart rate, so we can
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: quickly cry, we can quickly calm down. When we get older,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: it's very age related. Our heart rate variability or heart
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  Speaker 2: rate flexibility changes. So when you say you have a
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: heart rate of sixty beats per minute, or with these
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: heart rate monitors show that is an average over the minute,
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  Speaker 2: it could be fifty five beats, seventy five beats, fifty
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  Speaker 2: eight beats, and the averages out to the sixty five
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  Speaker 2: beats per minute. Now, if we take a measurement of
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: heart rate variability, a metric, a sensor that can plot
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: each beat, you will start to see a pattern of
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: the heart rate changing, which is a reflection of the
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  Speaker 2: autonomic nervous system parasympathetic and sympathetic and how they interact.
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  Speaker 2: Sympathetic is active, parasynthetic is relaxing. So if this is
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: a simplified version, I know and actually do the simplified version,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: but then I am happy to go very deep on
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  Speaker 2: this because I really want people to.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Understand the impact of the sympathetic nervous syst and the
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: parasympathetic nervous system on their heart, the vegus, nerves, all
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  Speaker 1: of it. Like, go as deep as you want, because
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  Speaker 1: I'd be wanting to get an expert on HRV on
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: the show for quite a while.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, that's wonderful. So when we plotted, there's two
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: ways to plot heart rate variability. One is, let me
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: back up a little bit. Is the amount you know,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: like seventy beats per minute, fifty beats per minute or
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: is it the metronome fifty five beats per minute fifty
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  Speaker 2: five fifty five. The more the vertical access, the healthier
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: you are. And say, when you're a chill we have
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: the most and there's age related natural decline that actually
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: is reflecting the decline in our emotional flexibility as well.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: You want to be able to get up and run
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: if an angry dog is chasing you. That's a sympathetic
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: activation of your sympathetic nervous system that can move, and
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: you want to be able to let athletes do bring
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: down your heart rate right away when you want to rest.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: A pair of sympathetic response, which is the relaxation response.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So the more we have this flexibility, the better health,
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  Speaker 2: and the less flexibility is really a predictor of disease.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: In fact, that vertical heart rate variability is a predictor
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: of all cars more talent. Yeah, so now that's very interesting.
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  Speaker 2: And most heart rate variability, the wearables are only reflecting that.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: They'll give you a score, but they don't tell you
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  Speaker 2: how to improve it. They'll just give you a score
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: for recovery. There's different ways you can use that on
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  Speaker 2: a wearable sensor. Now, what Heartmath Institute did, our research
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  Speaker 2: did is we were like, okay, what happens if we
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  Speaker 2: can plot the horizontal axis the pattern of these beat
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  Speaker 2: to beat changes the fifty five to sixty five to
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  Speaker 2: forty five? What's it look like? And what was a
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: discovery that was published in the American Journal Cardiology in
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  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five was that when we're feeling angry, impatient, anxious, stressed,
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  Speaker 2: any stressful emotions, the parasympathetic and sympathetic interaction in the
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: HIV become very jagged and irregular, reflecting how we feel.
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  Speaker 2: It was blow way to see our emotional state reflected
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  Speaker 2: in that pattern of the interaction between the parasympathetic and
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  Speaker 2: sympathetic nervous system, which make up the autonomic nervous system,
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  Speaker 2: which control ninety percent of the body's involuntary functions, sleep, digestion, elimination,
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  Speaker 2: hormonal balance, immune response. Amazing amount the autonomic nervous system controls.
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  Speaker 2: That's why yogis in deep meditation are learning how to
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  Speaker 2: regulate the autonomic nervous system. When you're stressed a lot, anxious, lot, depressed, frustrated, angry, impatient,
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  Speaker 2: the body doesn't recover quickly unless you know how to
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: regulate the nervous system. When the nervous system becomes dysregulated,
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  Speaker 2: all the cascade events of it's hard to see. You
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: wake up in the middle of the night, you have
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: digestive problems, you have headaches. I mean, the whole cascade
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  Speaker 2: of the stress response affects your physiology and how you feel.
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  Speaker 2: So we have a term that has become very popular
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  Speaker 2: now that most of us these days, with accumulated stress
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  Speaker 2: with especially what's going on in the world, have nervous
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  Speaker 2: system disregulation.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I was just about to say those words, Debra, and
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  Speaker 1: I actually think the more that I've been digging into
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  Speaker 1: this area, the more that I believe that autonomic dysregulation
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  Speaker 1: is one of the fundamental drivers of poor physical and
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  Speaker 1: mental health. That's out there right now, and I think
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  Speaker 1: it's worth I think you'd be in violent agreement on
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: that from your expression.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, And in fact, Heartmanth was one of the leaders
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  Speaker 2: in uncovering that and researching that from the early nineteen nineties.
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  Speaker 2: And course we're so glad that more people are discovering
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  Speaker 2: that now. Trauma unresolved, trauma, unresolved stress is like a
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  Speaker 2: pattern of imprinted nervous system dysregulation because it's been repeated
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  Speaker 2: over and over, or it's been strongly imprinted. Now here's
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  Speaker 2: the good news. When you are feeling not just calm,
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  Speaker 2: Calm helps to balance that nervous system, but when you're
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: feeling appreciation, gratitude, kindness, genuine care, love. These sincere heart
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  Speaker 2: qualities have been long associated with the heart and ancient
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  Speaker 2: philosophy and poetry in religions qualities of love. These bring
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  Speaker 2: the a nervous system into a stain of synchronization and balance,
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  Speaker 2: so they heart rate variability the horizontal pattern over time,
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  Speaker 2: and I mean a minute or two minutes or three
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  Speaker 2: minutes quickly turns when you're feeling those into the sine
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  Speaker 2: wave like beautiful rolling hills, whereas the stressful emotional pattern
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  Speaker 2: is like a jagged, irregular waveform.
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  Speaker 1: And Debra, I've actually used this using one of your products,
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  Speaker 1: the Innerbalance Coherence. Plus I've actually used this when I'm
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: doing a workshop. So you you will put that on
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  Speaker 1: to somebody. Put the device on. It's connected to the phone,
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  Speaker 1: and there's a little device that connects to your ear
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  Speaker 1: that's measuring your HRV, and then I get them to
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: do something stressful, right, So you're showing one of the
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: devices which I have here, right, and I'll get them
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: to do something stressful. Think about a stressful event and
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: then count backwards in sevens from three hundred.
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  Speaker 3: While I'm hassling.
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  Speaker 1: Them, and you see on the screen exactly what you're
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: talking about. It goes old jagged and their HRV drops,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: So the HRV drops and that pattern that you talked
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: about gets jagged, and then I get them to do
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: some slow control breathing and HRV goes up and the
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: whole pattern smooth side. So let's talk about the two
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: way interaction then between the brain and the heart. And
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: you guys talk about heart coherent, so obviously everybody gets
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: that your emotions can affect your sympathetic nervous system. I
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: think when we're angry, or we're upset, or we're freed, right,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: if there's fear, how that's activation and sympathetic nervous system.
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  Speaker 1: You know, let's talk about some of the things that happens.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Your pupils dilate, your heart beats faster, your blood pressure
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: goes up, your liver dumps blood sugar into your system.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: You know, where you have this full sympathetic.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Nervous system activation from an emotion. That's and what about
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the other way of rhyme And let's bring in breathing
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and the connections between the heart and the lungs into this.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad you asked so to continue the story,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: and I'll explain what you're saying. If you can use
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: that heart rate variability biofeedback and see the pattern and
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: use a heart maath technique or other technique which is
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: synchronizing breathing and feeling, that's the key you quickly shift
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: from that stress feeling and pattern into a more sine
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: wave like or physics calls a coherent waveform. So that's
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: why we call it heart coherence. You want to be
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: able to shift into that. And by the way, you
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: can have heart coherence at a very high heart rate,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: like you're impassioned on your stage and you're loving the
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: people as a speaker, and you can coherence and at
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: a high heart rate, and you can be in coherence
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: at a low heart rate. It has nothing to do
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: with the amount at that time. It has to do
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: with how you're feeling and breathing. So what happens in
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the heart brain two way interaction is when you're stressed
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: and angry or frustrated, just simply impatient and out of
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: sync with yourself. Your heart has its own little brain
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: inside it, an intrinsic nervous system with forty thousand neurons
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  Speaker 2: that are sensory neurons that can learn, sense, feel, and
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  Speaker 2: remember that was only discovered in the nineteen nineties at
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Delhousie University. But it's a blow away breakthrough research discovery
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  Speaker 2: because this hearts independent little nervous system or brain operates
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: independently from the brain in our head. And what's happening
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: is when you get into heart rhythm incoherence stressed, it
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: sends a signal up the vagual nerve to two places.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: It sends it a pathway to the amigdala, the emotional
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: center that stores fear, trauma emotions, and it sends anxiety.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: It sends it to the thelmas in the center of
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: the brain that synchronizes cortical function. It signals the brain stress,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: fight flight, or fright, and it shuts down our higher
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: cortical reasoning functions, so we're prepared for survival to take action.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: This is important to understand because it's an important stress response,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: but nowadays it's so continuous for so many people that
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: it becomes stress triggers. Anything can trigger us, especially with
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: today's political environment or global environment, we can get so
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: easily anxious or triggered, and that's constantly sending stress signals
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: to the imigdala, which then brings up the memories of
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: when you are anxious before, and that is what's happening
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: to so many of us. So no wonder there's a
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: whole epidemic of anxiety disorders depression. I could go on
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and on, but now let's talk about the other side,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: coherence and why not.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Sorry, just before we do talk about coherence.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I do want to double click on what you said
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: and make sure that people understand what you said, so
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: everybody gets that you're having an emotional response to something
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: that that affects your heart rate, that affects your sympathetic
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: nervous system, affects your whole body. Right, what you're telling
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: us is that the heart has specialized neurons that act
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: independently of the brain and can then affect those emotional
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: centers in the brain.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: So it's a bottom up pathway and word.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Do and how do those neurons in the heart become activated?
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Is that a heart rate response from external input from
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: efferent nerves or is there something independent? Do we know
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: what causes the activation of those neurons in the heart
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: today and feed up to the brain.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: They are sensory neurons, so they're responding to input from
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: our five senses and also our emotional state. So those
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: neurons are sensing blood pressure as well. There's five different
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: ways the heart talks to the brain upstairs. The brain
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: upstairs then responds based upon its programming or what it knows,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: and tells the body to go into fight or flight
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: er fright if it's a stress response. So it's a
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: real important two way dynamic. The heart sims the brain,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: the brain responds and tells the heart to speed up
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: heart rate even more, and they've got a whole cycle going.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: And this is how we affect our heart, affects our brain,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: affects our heart. It's an amazing process that we can
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: learn to interact with and that is the basis of
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: nervous system regulation.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: And that's really one of the kids.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: That's the mic drop, isn't it that we can interact
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: with this and put a level of voluntary control on this.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: And before we jump into that and talk a little
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: bit about the barrel reflex, like where does this play
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: a role?
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Well, the barrel reflex is what we've been talking about.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: It's coming from the intrinsic nervous system and the heart,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: and it's the frequency is around zero point one hurts
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: on a power spectrum er and the measuring what's going
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: on and how the heart communicates to the brain. And
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: what's so important is when we talk about that voluntary
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: interaction and the emotional state, a different signal is sent
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: to the brain through the vague nerve and the barreer reflex.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: When we're feeling positive emotion, genuine, sincere positive emotion. We
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: say we're opening our heart, we're connected in the heart,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: we're loving, we're caring, we're appreciative. It's the barrel receptor.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: It's all setting around that signal a different a different
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: frequency to the brain.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Right, excellent.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: So let's then talk about this heart coherence that you
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: guys talked about. Why Why is it useful for stress
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: and decision making?
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: It is critical for optimal performance and clarity and decision making,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: especially when there's a lot of stress for triggers happening
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: in society around you, from family, workplace, whatever. So the
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: body is designed to work harmoniously. We get out of balance,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: we come back to balance. The nature is all set
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: up on chaos and coherence. If you only have chaos,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you self destruct, you only have coherence, you don't grow
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: through challenge. Yeah nice, right, So what's beautiful is that
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: you can generate coherence, and it's so important these days
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: that you learn how to do that. So coherence is
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: when the heart rate variability goes into this beautiful rolling
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: hills sine waves where parasympathic and sympathetic are imbalance and
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: they're interacting and so you're present, you're clear, you're able
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: to jump up if you need to, and you're relaxed
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: at the same time. What does this remind you of
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: getting in the zone in analytics?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: I'm just a woy to ask about flow because you
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier on that your heart rate can be high
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: but still have this this beautiful sign wave and and
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: and I was going to ask about me high chess
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: met me high concept of flow right, which for those
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: who who who aren't familiar with it, flow is not
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: a state of of of serene relaxation. Flow is were
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: there is high challenge and high skill, So there has
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: to be challenge involved to be in flow. Otherwise you're
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: just relaxed, right, So.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: So so talk us through that a little bit.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: And and also the other thing you mentioned there is
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: your sympathetic nervous and your parsympathetic and balance. So some
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: people think that there are opposite ends of the seesaw,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: that one is active the other suppressed, but that's not
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: quite the case.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Is that they're both always going on. It's the the balance,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: isn't it.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, and synchronous is even more powerful than just balance
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: of sympathetic and parasympathty coherence. As you maintain that sine
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: wave flow of the autonomic nervous system, it synchronizes. So
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: parasympathetic and sympathetic actually synchronize and send a signal to
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the brain of optimal harmony. And so you're felamus, you're
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: amygdala that received the signal, and the frequency from the
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: heart reflect then on positive emotions, potential, possibility, creative thinking, intuition.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: It's a whole different aspect of human consciousness. And so
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: coherence is what enables the system, the operating system of
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the body to say, everything's so k. Now, we can
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: be creative, we can be dynamic, We're in flow. Flow
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: is a present state, being very present and emotionally attuned.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: You can't have flow of just challenge and without emotional
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: balance and emotional attunement. So that's why we always bring
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: everything back to the key to regulation is breathing plus feeling.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Interesting.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Talk to us more about because a lot of people
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: out there will will you know, we know.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: A little bit about HRV.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Will know that by doing slow control breathing, many different
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: forms of slow control breathing, you can optimize or improve
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: your heartbate variability. But talk to talk to us about
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: the role here of emotions.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Right, So, heart math techniques you almost always start with
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: heart focus breathing focusing in the area of the heart,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: and you're breathing in about a six second rhythm, which
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: starts to bring that zero point one Hurtz coherence waveform,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: that activation of the barer receptor, so that puts you
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: in the state of neutral balance. It starts, However, to
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: sustain coherence, it's not about continuously being conscious of your breath.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: If you start breathing at heart focused breathing one of
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: those heart qualities that activates your heart energy and strengthens
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and changes the signal to the brain. So say you're
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: breathing joy or breathing love, or breathing care, or breathing
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: any of those wonderful breathing calm, breathing patience. We have
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: a technique called attitude breathing where you're replacing impatience, for example,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: with breathing. The energy and quality of patience that does
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: it sends that signal, that frequency to the brain and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: you start to feel more patient and it builds up coherence.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Coherence has then a cumulative carryover effect. That's why a
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: lot of golfers we talked about at the beginning. We
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: get into coherence before they drive and the ball goes further.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: They're in sync. Their heart, brain nervous system is regulated,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: and not only regulated, but in sync. When you get
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: these systems in sync, blood pressure rhythm synchronizes to the
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: heart rhythm. You really brain waves synchronize. That's a powerful
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: internal state for performance. I don't care what athletic performance
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: you're doing. That's your biohacking optimal state. And that state
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: actually increases your mental perception. So it's not just physiological
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: in that sense. You feel better, you perceive a bigger picture,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: you have more intuition. It's the state we all love
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: being in, and usually it's haphazard. You can now create
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: that state on demand.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: So tell me this.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: So that heart coherence, and you talked about different ways
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: of doing that, is that always associated with certain brand
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: We have patterns which I suspect would be alpha low beta.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Is that the case or can there be different brand?
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: We have patterns with different states of coherence.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Both.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: So alpha synchronizes to the coherent heart rhythm. Now you
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: have to understand that the heart puts out with every
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: beat about two point five watts of power that goes
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: through the heart the hearts for magnetic field. So just
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: that pattern of that beat, which is the heart variability pattern,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: is sending powerful signals to every cell of your body,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: affecting health, but also affecting the brain and how you perceive.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: So it's going to light up different areas of the brain,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: depending upon the situation, depending upon how you feel, depending
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: upon your history, you know, so that we have a
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: lot of brain scan images in the lab that relate
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: to different states, and in coherence, you do see the
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: alphorithm synchronize. But the brain is such a complex organ
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: and so affected by our memories and our history and
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: all that that you want to practice coherence. Heard, coherence
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: is a practice. It's not one time and it lights
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: up your whole brain. It has carryover effect in your day,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: cumulative effect and how you respond to situations. It's got
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: a protective effect. So things that normally would trigger you
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: are water off a duct's back. Because you're in sync,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: you're in harmony, you're in balance, and over time, it's
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: actually going to increase your intuitive and intelligence capacity why
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: we call it heart intelligence and giving you more clarity,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: so you make better decisions, you see more choices, you
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: have a maturity, a more emotional and mental maturity that's
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: super important for optimal performance.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So would it be accurate to say
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: there's lots of bio feedback and techniques that are out there.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Would it be an accurate statement.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: To stay that in Heart Moth you combine biofeedback techniques
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: with meditative techniques.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: You could say that because when we've researched and tested
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: a group of Zen practitioners, they had very high coherence.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: So the biofeedback confirmed their meditation state was really coherent.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: And there's so many states of prayer that are in
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: that rhythmic pattern that increase our coherence, especially if we're
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: feeling loving. The key is the feeling. I keep bringing
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: it back to that loving kindness, peace, all of that
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: and sustaining that with our regular breathing. Deep breathing, slow
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: breathing brings the system into coherence very quickly. So yes,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: they're meditative techniques. There's physiological techniques and that HRV bio
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: feedback like you see with our inner balance sensor and
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: app shows you when you're in that state, so it
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: helps you refine your meditation. I can't tell you how
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: many people, including myself, still after all these years, if
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I want to go quickly to a deeper meditative state
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: when I'm meditating, instead of rambling around in my mind
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: for a while, I use the biofeedback to see where
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I am and it just gets me meaningfully right there
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: in the pocket. I don't waste the time, and I'm
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: feeling incoherence. So it's starting to open up more of
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: my intuitive insight, which is what I enjoy in meditation.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I am a rubbish meditator, I will be
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the first to admit, but bio feedback, particularly breathing buyo feedback,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: whether it's heart moth or other things, I find is
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: something that I can lock into quite easily and some
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: other people do, and that then brings that more meditative state. Right,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: So it's a kind of it's a little hack for
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: getting in there. But you also talk about and you
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: talk about building resilience. So what for the listeners in
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: your view, is the difference between managing stress, whether it's
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: through breathwork or meditation or whatever. What's the difference between
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: managing stress and building resilience.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Well, the Department of Defense because we train in all
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: four branches of the military adopted Heart Master of definition
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: of resilience. Most people think resilience is the ability to
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: bounce back quick from a stressful episode and you build
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: up that capacity. Resilience, from our research, is an accumulation
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: of coherent energy in your system with its carryover effect,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: so that you are resilient in the face of stress.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: You don't even have to bounce back because you're not
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: getting stressed capacity. You're increasing your capacity to handled challenge.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And that's really what resilience allows. It's an energy, a
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: resilient energy, so that you move through life with more capacity.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Excellent.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: And that is for me, the difference between resilience and hardiness,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: which I studied in my PhD, right which hardiness is
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: a greater capacity in the ability to grow from stress.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: So interesting overlap, and we are starting to run out
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: of time.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: But there's a few questions I want to ask you.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: So, how could somebody who's listening to this, who doesn't
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: have any heart math equipment, how could they do your
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: heart cook coherence exercise and what could they expect from it?
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Talk us to.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, Well, again, the equipment bio feedback just reflects what
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: you're doing. So there's a whole series of heart math
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: techniques that you use and once you use it with
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: a bio feedback and you refine it, you practice those techniques.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: There are one minute techniques on your own whenever you
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: feel triggered or when you want creativity. We have techniques
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: like quick coherence how to quickly shift into that waveform
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: of sine wave. We have attitude breathing that I mentioned
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: that helps you sustain and really shift attitude and perception
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: in the moment. That opens up a bigger picture because
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: of the heart brain communication. And we have freeze frame
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: technique which gives you more intuitional access. Lets you see
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: what your head is saying, what your heart is saying,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: and go deeper into that intuition and synchronization. They go
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: to the heartmouth website heartmouth dot com. You can download
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: the Heartmth Experience which shares these techniques. It's free. You
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: can go to the Heartmuth app on your app store
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: or Google play Store and download the Heartmauth app. You
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: have seven days free trial before you subscribe, which gives
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you access to heartmouth training. Heartmauth techniques, the ones I
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: just mentioned and You can get the sensor if you
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: want at the heartmauth dot com website. Go there and
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: explore and see what you're drawn to. But the techniques
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: are super simple. Our founder, Doc Children once said, simplicity
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: is crunched complexity.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: So we've taken very complex science and put it into
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: a simple, user friendly system that we teach children preschool
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: through college so they can see how to get in
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: sync and how to handle when they're upset or stressed
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: to come back to that inner balance. And the techniques
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: are as simple as focusing in the heart, breathing through
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: the heart area, and activating a feeling of gratitude for anything,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: your pet, something something in your life that you can
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: feel grateful for. And if you can't feel anything, then
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: just activate calm and breathe calm, and you'll start bringing
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: your system into that sine wave coherence. The biofeedback that
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: you see like WHOA, I did that, I can do that.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: It's it amazes people when they see that they have
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: agency over there.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: And I think for anybody who is kind of skeptical
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: of this area, the beauty is you can be your
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: own scientist, which I always say to people, you could
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: be your own scientists, like you get get a biofeedback device.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: And because some people may.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Be thinking, oh I'm gonna I'm gonna sit here and
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: breathe and think about emotion.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: That's a bit fluffy.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: But try it and see what happens with the biofeedback device.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Ye, exactly. That's heart power.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Is that ship don't lie right when you're getting that
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: biofeedback and and and you know, biofeedback, neurofeedback. There's just
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: so much research of those areas about how it can
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: change your physiology.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: Last question that.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Debra, but what excites you most about the future of
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: research in this area and then about worrible technologies? Right,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: it's kind of separate questions in one.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: What excites me most is the potential of how research
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: that we're doing right now in Interconnectivity at the Hartmouth
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Institute showing how this zero point one hurts the bar
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: receptor that synchronizes heart and brain is actually nature's frequency
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: and it actually puts us in connection with something in
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: the Earth's field. The potential for humanity, that's what excites me.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: That people really can take charge of this once they
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: know how, and it's simple enough that anyone can do it,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: that we can all learn to get along with each other,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: that we can harmonize internally and release past traumas and
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: really learn. This is an idealism, this is reality. I've
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: seen it done in groups. We can learn to be
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: opt demise, our teamwork, our creativity, our listening, and our
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: heart connection. And it's the future of humanity to heart
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: to bring out real heart intelligence. Has been talked about
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: for ages through every religion is about love. Well, this
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: is putting that into action with the physiology of how
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: it works, and so that potential is what excites me most.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: And I do believe that wearables that give us that
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: refined heart rhythm biofeedback will help guide us and guide humanity.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: That's why we created the heart meth app too, as
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: you can try it and it can be translated in
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: languages all over the world, so we can have a
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: billion people. That's our goal, our vision, getting into heart coherence.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: That's a pretty cold vision, it really is.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: And anybody who wants to explore the science, and you
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: publish a bucket load of research on the on the
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: heartmath website, right, so they can do actually go and
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: look at the peer reviewed research that's published in this area,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: so so so, Deborah, where.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Can people go to learn more? Is it the heart
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: math website? Is that?
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Is that?
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: It? Just go to heartmouth dot com. There is personal training.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: You can come certified as a Heartmouth coach or Heartmouth
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Organizational trainer in workshops just or just for yourself. Go
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: to heartmouth dot com. Get the heart Meth experience, get
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: the sensor if you can, because that connects you to
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: all the apps and gives you hands on personal training.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: How to get into coherence and how to have the
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: carryover effect, how to build coherence in your system and
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: resilience and how to handle the challenges of life today.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: And who doesn't need that?
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Doctor, Deborah Rosmond, thank you very much for giving us
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: your time and expertise.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: I think that's been most useful for people. So thank you.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me here and allowing
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: me to share this with everybody. And it's an act
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: of self care for everyone to begin to practice HERT coherence.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: Very cool. Thank you.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Thanks