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Becoming Anchored S2E11: How to Reduce People Pleasing · Becoming Anchored

0:05
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Becoming Anchored podcast.
0:09
We're super glad you're here with us today.
0:11
I'm Lauren Jackson.
0:12
This is our other host, Laura Dineen.
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Um, we are two licensed therapists in the Brentwood area.
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We are part of the group private practice that Laura founded called
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Anchored Counseling Company.
0:26
Um, our group practice, uh, sees clients Throughout the lifespan,
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presenting with concerns anywhere from anxiety, depression, body
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image concerns, disordered eating, grief and loss, life transition,
0:40
kind of all through that spectrum.
0:42
Um, we really love what we do.
0:44
We've been so enjoying creating this podcast and connecting with
0:48
you guys in a different way.
0:49
Kind of sharing our lives and our, um, therapeutic wisdom with you in a
0:54
different way than just this podcast.
0:55
So, um, we're excited for the content for today.
1:03
Laura and I both deeply relate with it and so we're, we're excited to share just like
1:08
our experiences with it and, um, some, some kind of helpful tips with it as well.
1:12
Anyway, so quick disclaimer, this podcast, like always is not meant for,
1:18
um, you know, your therapy at all.
1:21
It's meant for informational purposes, entertainment, um, that kind of thing.
1:24
If you, as you're listening, feel like you could benefit from your own therapy.
1:29
If you're local to us in the Brentwood, Nashville, Franklin
1:31
area, please reach out.
1:32
We'd love to connect and see if we'd be a good fit for you.
1:35
If not, if you're not local, find someone local to you who's,
1:38
um, who's a licensed therapist.
1:41
Yeah, thanks Lauren.
1:42
And so echoing Lauren, um, this has just been so fulfilling for us and
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we truly love doing this together.
1:49
We've laughed a lot.
1:50
We have, you know, faced uncertain things from, you know, connecting
1:55
the microphone to trying to figure out the recording platform.
1:57
And so we're definitely, um, just so grateful.
2:00
You know, figuring it out as we go.
2:01
But yeah, if you're new to the Becoming Anchored podcast, the
2:04
purpose of this podcast is two fold.
2:06
So it's really just to share our lives with you all.
2:08
We are humans, first and foremost, and we certainly go through hard things, through
2:12
difficult things, um, through pain, and of course, We have, you know, joy that we
2:17
share with you all on this show as well.
2:19
And then Lauren and I both love, love, love the work that we do as clinicians.
2:23
And so our hope is to share some of our wisdom and some of our
2:26
experiences that we've gleaned over the years from sitting with clients.
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So thanks for being here today.
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Like Lauren said, we have a topic that we both can relate to on some level.
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Um, we are going to be talking about all the ins and outs of people
2:57
pleasing and more specifically how to reduce people pleasing behaviors.
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We are using that verbiage of it being a behavior to really start to
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cultivate, um, agency in our listeners around their, um, capabilities and
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really reducing people pleasing.
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So, let's go ahead and just dive right in.
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We're excited to have y'all.
3:21
Gosh, people pleasing.
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It's a big topic.
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It sure is.
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It sure is.
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And I feel like, um, it can have maybe, like, more of kind of
3:31
a negative connotation to it.
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Like, oh, I'm such a people pleaser.
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Or, you know, she, oh, she's so, she's just people pleasing, that kind of thing.
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And I think that there's a part of the people pleasing experience that maybe
3:44
can be, somebody can be more, kind of, predisposed personality wise to,
3:51
to that, to that kind of peacekeeping or, you know, mediating, if you will.
3:56
And I, I'm speaking to that just because I, I relate to that.
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Um, and so I think it's kind of maybe a combination of kind of our, our
4:03
nature and then our nurture that, that can influence how strong of like a
4:08
people pleaser part of us we have and how much maybe it gets in the way.
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And I think that's more of what we're kind of wanting to like Um, and I think that's
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what we're going to explore together today and with you guys is just like,
4:20
um, what, what happens when we do notice, gosh, I am people pleasing to the extent
4:26
that it's like, it's kind of getting in the way of my life in some ways.
4:31
So now you raise a really excellent point just around this shame or criticism that
4:39
oftentimes accompanies people pleasing.
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And we really want to shed light on this topic.
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In a kind, gentle, tender way.
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Um, because yeah, I mean I agree with you.
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I've certainly heard that and I've most likely done it myself at some point.
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Sure.
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In my, you know, own mental health journey of like, gosh I'm doing that thing.
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And it can be so easy to.
5:00
You know, do an eye roll or shame ourselves and, and really, we know
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that the way that we start to change is by cultivating kindness towards
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ourselves, so I love that foundational piece that you just mentioned here.
5:12
Um, when I'm thinking of like a working definition of people pleasing,
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I know we do this quite often on the show, but it's like we, we
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want to understand people pleasing.
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What we're talking about first before we provide the how to's to y'all.
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Right?
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So, I mean, a basic, basic, basic definition of people pleasing in
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my mind is really putting other people's needs above my own.
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And, and it's a consistent pattern of behavior, right?
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It's not like, if my husband is sick, it's appropriate for me
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to like go to the grocery store.
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He goes to the grocery store oftentimes, whereas it's appropriate
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for me to go to the grocery store to take on more responsibility as he.
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you know, heals and recovers and takes care of himself, right?
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That's appropriate.
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We're talking about a consistent pattern of behavior that is marked by putting
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other people's needs above our own.
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Um, and just kind of qualities of people pleasers that come to mind.
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People pleasers are frequently really pretty afraid of any type of
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conflict or confrontation or discord with another person and then That's
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one of the reasons why they're people pleasing in the first place.
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Yeah, and that can be rooted in so many different things, but people pleasers are
6:28
oftentimes incredibly fearful of conflict.
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People pleasers can also be perfectionists.
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And that's why they're people pleasing.
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Yeah, any other like qualities coming to mind for you?
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I mean, those are two, the two big ones that I kind of think of.
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Conflict avoidance.
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Wanting to make sure everybody else is okay and happy, um, uh, perfectionistic,
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um, maybe people pleasers can tend to be perhaps more like reserved or more
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internalized or internalizing processors, if you will, um, and then I think
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too, when it comes to people pleasing, Laura, you brought up a good point.
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You know, first, we want to understand, like you said, what,
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what it is that we're talking about.
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And then, um, with this particular kind of behavior, and maybe in some
7:31
ways dysfunctional behavior, it's like, what, what, what is motivating it?
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Why are we doing it?
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And so I think that conflict avoidance piece can be huge for those of us who
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tend towards patterns of people pleasing.
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And I'm like, raising my hand here because this is like, Um, I've done
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a lot of work to kind of like build awareness around it and challenge it.
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Um, um, Because I've found in a lot of ways that it would get in the way of me
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knowing what I wanted and what I needed and what was, what was best for me and
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putting other people's needs first.
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Um, but yeah, what is the, what is the motivation?
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Conflict avoidance, um, um, acceptance, like wanting to feel accepted.
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Um, you know, maybe it's in, in this case, Um, This is, this is my experience.
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Maybe there's this like, internalized piece you're trying to keep.
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Whether that's like your own piece you're trying to keep by not, by
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trying to avoid conflict or relational piece you're trying to keep.
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Right, so conflict avoidance, keeping the peace, um, yeah, wanting to feel accepted.
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Maybe even if we get down to like a deeper level, maybe it's like a an avoidance
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of like, or trying to avoid pain, like trying to stay away from like hurt.
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Um, and that can speak to, you know, maybe historically any ways that
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we've been hurt or we've experienced pain or we've had relational wounds.
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Um, our bodies are, are really cool in that they come up with these
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like, different coping strategies to help us in the future avoid painful
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or dangerous or scary situations.
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Um, and then what we can find into in adulthood is that sometimes those
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ways of coping that our body kind of develops aren't always helpful anymore.
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And so maybe there's like a chronic kind of people pleaser pattern that
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for a while has like kept you safe from like dangerous conflict or things
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like that in like relationships.
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And then as an adult, you find, man, I'm people pleasing so much that I'm
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like, I'm, I'm so resentful of everybody and everything all the time because I
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don't know how to say no, or I don't know, I really don't want to do this
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thing, but I keep doing it anyways.
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So, um, so yeah, the motivation, like what, what is underneath the people
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pleasing that is like showing up for you that, that feels important to you.
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Kind of name and then like we always talk about in here build
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awareness around like yeah.
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Yeah build some insight around.
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Yeah Yeah, I know that that's really good.
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And that's that's so funny that you brought up that word word resentment or
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The word that came to mind as you were talking was really resentful people
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pleasers are oftentimes incredibly resentful, and I don't say that to
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criticize those of you that are listening, but again, like Lauren's talking about,
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they're getting the need met, whatever the need is, whether it's connection,
10:46
acceptance, love, safety, belonging, but the way that they're going about getting
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the need met is the problem, right?
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So it's not the need itself that's the problem, and that feels really important
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just to highlight on the show today.
11:00
Right.
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Because we all, as humans, have And if you've, you know, done any sort of
11:05
therapy, you most likely are familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
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Go check it out if you haven't heard of it before, but it's a beautiful
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picture of kind of the human needs and what those can look like.
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And we have all sorts of needs.
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So the need itself is not problematic, but the way we go about meeting
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our needs can become problematic.
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And so, This is where the how to of like, if you're listening, you're
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probably like, well, just tell me how to stop people from placing, right?
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It's complex.
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And that's the framework of like, okay, how are we going about meeting
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our needs in adaptive, healthy ways?
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Whether that's saying no when we mean no, or Setting a boundary
11:44
with the person that we are consistently not feeling great around.
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Like, whatever it looks like, that's the work is getting the
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needs met in an adaptive way.
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And that can support us towards reducing people pleasing.
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But, I mean, yeah, I've had times of resentment in my life when, you know,
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earlier in my mental health journey, therapy career, I like to, to call it,
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um, yeah, when I would say yes, and I would say yes almost like a a reflexive
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response and then I was burnt out or, um, resentful and carrying that is, is
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quite heavy and it's a lot to carry and it's, it's honestly not fruitful for our
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relationships because if we are showing up in our relationships in a way that is
12:32
burnt out, like people notice that, right?
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And we're maybe not able to like fully give.
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You know, uh, versus like being restored and saying yes when we mean
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yes and saying no when we mean no.
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Like, I found that the more I've worked on my own people pleasing tendencies
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that I'm able to like give more.
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Um, and the quality is, is better of my relationships versus kind of
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this consistent pattern of behavior.
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Yeah.
13:03
Yeah.
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Laura, you said something earlier that I just wanted to circle back around to.
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Um, that felt important to me or worth highlighting just around like the,
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um, the need not being the problem.
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Um, and oftentimes maybe even as someone who tends to people please or
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a people pleaser, um, it's easier for us to blame the need as the problem
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than it is to change the problematic behavior because that requires
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discomfort and we don't like discomfort.
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Right?
13:41
Right.
13:41
Right?
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And so, just highlighting that feels important because, and I think this
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could be true for anybody, maybe not just someone who has that kind of
13:50
proclivity to that chronic disease.
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People pleasing.
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I think, generally speaking, as humans, our human nature is to want to feel
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good, not to not to not want discomfort.
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Um, and so if what we're saying is that our, our needs, our need for,
14:10
for Connection for emotional safety for belonging for acceptance for
14:16
to be seen all of that a lot of the times those things require us to
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speak up to set boundaries to ask for what we need to be assertive in
14:30
relationship to be vulnerable, right?
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And so, um, all of those things can bring a level of discomfort.
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And so I think even just as humans in general are maybe our natural
14:41
tendency would be to say, Oh, well, the needs are just the product.
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If I just don't have those needs, that makes it easier.
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And then, um, and then I can just kind of keep doing what I'm
14:52
doing and maybe get by when it.
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When it's like, okay, when we do recognize that the need is the
14:59
need, and that's good, then that maybe means that my behavior needs
15:04
to change, and that can be hard.
15:06
Yeah.
15:06
Gosh, such an excellent perspective.
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I do think that that's quite common.
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Yeah.
15:12
You know, clients we see, and then, you know, our clients are going on
15:16
to develop eating disorders, or other problematic behaviors that, you know,
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Blame the need like you talked about but when we can start having compassion
15:28
for this, really this fact that we all have needs as humans and really
15:34
getting curious about how we are going about meeting those needs because like
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you said the need is not the problem.
15:40
Right, right.
15:42
And if we think about to, um, I'm kind of getting into a little
15:48
bit of like an attachment kind of family going family of origin lens.
15:53
Which I tend to take a lot of the times as a therapist.
15:56
So I think it's natural that maybe that shows up a little
15:58
bit for me on these episodes.
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Um, but when we think about, um, you know, our, our, our, our needs,
16:07
our emotional, relational needs, and of course our physical needs,
16:12
water, food, that kind of thing.
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We're, we're kind of born into this world with them.
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screaming for them, right?
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We're born into the world screaming, I need, I am in need, right?
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And the hope is, is that we are grown up being fostered in those needs, being seen
16:33
in those needs, being met in those needs, so that we, we do grow up learning and
16:41
knowing that I can have needs and that I can speak up and that I can say no and
16:46
that I can, Ask for help, and that I can say I need this thing, whatever, right?
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And, so, aside from maybe having a predisposition personality wise, genetic
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makeup wise, to maybe be a little bit more personal, people pleaser, right?
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Um, sometimes our, our growing up and our development in, in ways stunts our ability
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to know that we can have needs, which then can set us up to be more predisposed
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to want to please everyone around us because their needs are bigger than ours.
17:23
are greater than or keeping the pieces greater than because that's
17:27
safer or because that's, that's, that's just less dangerous.
17:32
And so again, that it's getting into a little bit more of that like
17:36
developmental lens, if you will.
17:38
Um, and I think that that can be a, you know, people's stories a lot of the times.
17:44
Um, so I just wanted to make that point.
17:47
Yeah.
17:48
I mean, I think that it's so important, right?
17:50
Because we don't wake up when we're 25 All of a sudden, people pleasing, or at least
17:55
that's not historically my experience or my clinical experience treating clients or
17:59
even my own experience, but yes, I fully agree with you and it is interesting to
18:04
start to ask ourselves how our parents or primary caregivers responded to our needs.
18:11
Yeah.
18:11
Um.
18:11
When we were growing up, because that's what Lauren's talking about, it's like,
18:14
okay, how did they respond to my need?
18:17
Did they do their best to meet their need?
18:19
Now, no family is perfect.
18:21
I'm a parent, I'm not perfect.
18:22
Lauren's a parent, she's not perfect.
18:24
And, the reality is that there are some Um, parents that respond well to their
18:30
child's needs and, and do their best and repair when there's a rupture if
18:36
the need wasn't met in the first place.
18:37
So all that to say, for those of you listening today, it
18:41
really might be helpful.
18:43
And I would argue, if you are a people pleaser, fundamental to your recovery
18:47
process is starting to ask yourself how your loved ones responded to your needs.
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Did they?
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Attuned to the need did they do their best to meet the need or did
18:56
they like mock the need god forbid?
18:58
Did they criticize the need and starting to notice in adulthood if that's?
19:02
How you respond as well, because if that's all you know, it makes sense that
19:05
that would be how you would respond.
19:07
I mean, how, why would you know to do anything different, right?
19:10
And I don't know who, like, who said this, Lauren, you might know, but I
19:14
read somewhere one time that parent pleasers become people pleasers, and
19:19
so that's an interesting piece as well.
19:21
Like, if you have kind of a proclivity towards the Pleasing your parents, or
19:25
maybe your parents didn't allow for mistakes in your home, or maybe they
19:31
showed overt disappointment in you, and you were terrified of making a mistake
19:37
or messing up in front of them, then you became a parent pleaser, most likely, as
19:42
a child, uh, because that attachment gave you security, and then in adulthood that
19:47
looks like people pleasing, so, yeah.
19:49
That's an interesting kind of Yeah.
19:51
Way to put it that I heard, I think pretty recently, and I don't know who, certainly
19:55
I didn't come up with that quote, but I don't know who, who said it, but it feels
19:59
pretty I don't know who said it either.
20:00
Yeah.
20:00
Yeah.
20:00
That, that feels, I'm sure a lot of people can probably resonate with
20:04
that who are, who are listening.
20:06
And just to like share some more of like my story, because like you all
20:11
have heard on this episode, I like just truly deeply resonate with.
20:16
Being a people pleaser if any of you guys know the Enneagram.
20:20
I know that's kind of a hot trendy thing, right?
20:22
I'm a nine on the Enneagram.
20:24
So, you know, maybe my nineness, you know, leans me more towards
20:30
being a people pleaser It's kind of chicken or the egg, whatever.
20:32
I don't know but You know growing up in my kind of family of origin in my childhood.
20:39
My needs were really were, were very attuned to.
20:43
My needs were responded to really well by my parents.
20:46
Um, and, um, and so, you know, there's, there's not
20:53
necessarily for me in my story.
20:56
Um, what I would call like developmental trauma or like emotional neglect or
21:01
anything like that, that would, that would cause a deep kind of like, I
21:05
don't know, trauma response to being a people pleaser as an, as an adult.
21:09
I think my tendency towards it really is, is kind of like a, a personality piece.
21:17
And then, you know, in my, in my high school years, um, I.
21:24
That just got really strong for me, um, as a way to kind of cope with the
21:30
transition of, you know, being a high schooler and then turning into an adult.
21:34
And I think, you know, environmentally, things like big life transitions and, um,
21:39
uh, you know, going, like I said, from, you know, An 18 year old or a 17 year
21:45
old to a 19 year old that can be enough for someone in the environment to in
21:50
their environment to exacerbate the, um, uh, kind of predisposition internally.
21:59
Um, so just to share that as like, My experience in the, as being a people
22:05
pleaser, um, um, and not having like, uh, as, uh, not being someone who identifies
22:13
as, as having a traumatic childhood and also noticing that dysfunctional
22:18
pattern of people pleasing to the point where I'm like neglecting myself.
22:23
Mm hmm.
22:24
Mm hmm.
22:24
Yeah.
22:25
And I've known Lauren for a while, gosh, like five years now and, you
22:30
know, just getting really vulnerable.
22:32
I mean, I, I've seen you grow and I know that we've both.
22:35
gone through hard things in the last five years and you have really
22:39
challenged yourself to lean into this, what's the opposite of people pleasing?
22:44
Speaking your needs, I guess.
22:45
I'm trying to find the, the, the verbiage for it here today.
22:48
But yeah, you've really leaned into like advocating for yourself and speaking up
22:52
for yourself and sharing what you think.
22:55
And it's been such a beautiful gift just being in a relationship with you.
22:59
Um, because I feel like I know you more, right?
23:01
And that's that vulnerability piece.
23:03
So that's the gift of.
23:05
Really showing up fully and speaking our needs and with healthy people.
23:10
Hopefully we have the opportunity to do that because they can receive that well.
23:13
Yeah.
23:14
Yeah.
23:14
So when we're thinking about.
23:15
Go ahead.
23:16
No.
23:16
I just had just one other quick thought.
23:18
I mean, one of the things that we talk about so much on this podcast
23:22
and that we train a lot of our staff on is, um, values work, right?
23:26
Like with our clients and, um, comes from acceptance and commitment therapy.
23:30
And so if we're also looking at this through the lens of
23:34
values, if I do that work around knowing what I do value, then I.
23:39
Then probably what happens is that I see how chronic people pleasing bumps, bumps
23:43
up against my values, which then can actually help me do something differently,
23:49
even if it is uncomfortable because typically what we value just weighs a
23:54
lot more and is a lot, it's, it's, it's It's just a lot more significant to us
23:59
and for us than whatever dysfunctional behavior we are, that is showing up for
24:05
us, which can be quite a, quite a strong, intrinsic motivation to make change.
24:09
And so that was just like one other thing that came up for me,
24:12
just that, that values piece.
24:13
Cause I know that's so important to us as therapists and anchored and
24:17
how we, you know, treat our clients.
24:20
So just.
24:21
One little, one last little bit.
24:23
Yeah.
24:23
What comes to mind for me as you're talking about that is like short term
24:26
discomfort, long term gain, right?
24:29
So the short term discomfort of you speaking up for yourself and for the
24:32
record, Lauren has been so vulnerable today and I certainly have my own,
24:36
you know, history with people pleasing as well, um, that we can maybe share
24:39
on another episode, but so thank you Lauren for your vulnerability, but
24:42
yeah, I mean that short term discomfort that I've observed in you for the long
24:48
term gain, the long term benefit of.
24:51
Getting what you need or getting what you want, I think is important to remember.
24:56
And so yeah, as we're recapping kind of the how to, I mean, we
25:00
talked about today, noticing what the need is without judgment.
25:05
That's a lot of the work.
25:06
And then figuring out how we can get that need met in healthy ways, right?
25:09
So.
25:10
Practicing assertiveness, um, setting boundaries, those are going to be
25:15
two ways to facilitate moving through people pleasing towards health.
25:21
I'm trying to think if there's anything else, I mean one thing
25:23
as you were talking Lauren is just like getting more comfortable with
25:26
discomfort, so recognizing if we are going to challenge ourselves too.
25:31
resist the urge to people, please.
25:33
So that's the language that we're using with clients around behaviors, right?
25:37
So really naming it as a behavior and resisting the urge to people, please,
25:41
that's going to be uncomfortable.
25:43
Um, we talk a lot in the practice about approaching over avoiding.
25:47
So approaching hard things because setting boundaries or practicing
25:51
assertiveness and being assertive.
25:53
If historically you have a history of not using your voice or not speaking your
25:57
needs or not setting boundaries, that's going to most likely be pretty hard.
26:01
And so, not only naming it as something hard when you do it, but also just
26:06
really challenging you to approach hard situations and difficult situations.
26:12
We're not talking about unsafe or dangerous situations.
26:13
We're talking about situations that cause some sort of
26:17
distress or emotional response.
26:19
Anything else you would add to that?
26:21
I'm trying to think.
26:21
Kind of our go to's in the practice for reducing people bleasing.
26:26
Yeah, no, that was a really great recap.
26:29
Okay, awesome.
26:30
And, too, that attachment piece that Lauren talked about, right?
26:32
Like, looking at your family of origin story and how that may or may
26:36
not be impacting your people Yeah.
26:38
Using behaviors.
26:39
Yeah.
26:39
Yep.
26:42
Lauren, would you like to give the homework and then I
26:44
will provide the affirmation?
26:48
Yes.
26:49
So, I could give you guys a lot of homework, but I won't.
26:54
Um, I'm Just thinking through what maybe feels like the most, um, kind
27:01
of foundational thing to kind of start with, um, when it comes to kind of
27:06
shifting some people pleasing patterns.
27:08
I would, I would really love for you guys to, like we had talked about earlier
27:14
in this session, think about how as A younger child, a kid, a teen, whatever,
27:21
how your needs were responded to by your caregivers, whoever your caregiver was.
27:26
If that feels triggering to you in any way, or unsafe to you in any way,
27:32
and you maybe do have a therapist, maybe doing that in the safety
27:34
of your therapeutic relationship.
27:36
If you don't, then, um, maybe don't do that if that feels too, too triggering.
27:42
Disregulating, um, maybe then paying attention to how, how you either a
27:50
notice your needs as an adult and then respond to your own needs as an adult.
27:54
Do I have a tendency to like actually not know what I need and then kind of avoid
27:59
those and then people please from there.
28:01
So um, a building awareness around how your needs were attuned to when
28:05
you were younger and then be doing the same as an adult just to build
28:09
awareness around, um, Um, those people pleasing tendencies and when they show
28:15
up and, and, and why they show up.
28:20
So yeah.
28:21
Yeah.
28:22
Absolutely.
28:23
And then my affirmation for you that I will also carry with
28:26
myself today is really just this concept that your needs matter.
28:31
So if you put it, you could put it in an I statement.
28:33
So my needs matter and I am capable of meeting my needs in a healthy way.
28:40
So whatever those needs are.
28:42
We care so much for you all.
28:45
We thank you for listening to this episode today.
28:48
And go start to tackle some of your people pleasing.
28:50
We are rooting for you.
28:52
And we'll see you next time.
28:53
Take care.
28:53
Bye guys.
28:54
Bye.