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Why This LO Refuses to Quote a Rate · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:01
  Welcome to the Mortgage Marketing Radio Podcast.
• 0:04
  I'm your host, Katie Shive.
• 0:06
  And in case my
• 0:07
  voice sounds unfamiliar, I am not Jeff, obviously, but I am doing a guest takeover today on behalf
• 0:14
  of Jeff.
• 0:15
  And I'm really excited to share the interview with you.
• 0:19
  So today I'm going to
• 0:21
  be interviewing Kayla Callender.
• 0:23
  She is a top producing loan officer out of North Dakota.
• 0:27
  She is really active on social media, specifically LinkedIn and Instagram, and she helps a lot
• 0:35
  of first-time homebuyers.
• 0:37
  Now that might sound cliche, but if you follow her online, you'll see she is helping a lot
• 0:44
  of first-time homebuyers every single month, and she is really passionate about that.
• 0:49
  So we're going to get into that a bit in today's episode.
• 0:51
  We're going to talk a little bit about her involvement with First Home IQ and all of
• 0:56
  the things that make her special.
• 0:58
  So without further ado, let's get into today's episode.
• 1:13
  So Kayla, I'm really excited to have you on today's show.
• 1:17
  And for those listening that
• 1:19
  might not know of you, Kayla Callender, tell us like the 30,000 foot view, like how would someone
• 1:26
  describe you?
• 1:27
  Like you are in North Dakota, you work at a bank, like there's so many things that
• 1:34
  you do differently than the normal loan officer, which is why we're really excited to talk to you
• 1:38
  today.
• 1:38
  So for everybody listening, tell us like who you are and what are you doing?
• 1:43
  loaded answer get ready okay I'm Kayla Callender I I live in Fargo North Dakota yes anytime I meet
• 1:50
  someone they're like you're really from Fargo I didn't know they have blonde girls in Fargo but
• 1:55
  yes Fargo North Dakota born and raised in North Dakota grew up on a farm uh graduated with a
• 2:00
  class of 29 I don't know why I use that as like a measurement but lets you know how small of a
• 2:06
  town I'm from.
• 2:07
  Small town.
• 2:08
  Tiny.
• 2:09
  And then started working at a bank when I was 15 and got into
• 2:13
  business, went to college for business and continued working in the banking field and
• 2:19
  ended up in mortgage accidentally like most people.
• 2:22
  And for the last decade, I've been doing
• 2:24
  mortgages, which I always share.
• 2:26
  It's helping people get educated and empowered and understand
• 2:30
  in a world of chaos and lack of calm, that's kind of my superpower is to help people understand
• 2:37
  the power behind why you should own a home and all the numbers, all the things.
• 2:43
  There's so much
• 2:44
  to it and have become wildly obsessed with it.
• 2:48
  And I have four rescue pit bulls that I'm also
• 2:52
  obsessed with.
• 2:53
  I'm married.
• 2:54
  I have a lake home that I travel to often because we don't travel
• 2:59
  that much otherwise.
• 3:00
  And what else?
• 3:02
  I love to sleep.
• 3:04
  Fun fact.
• 3:05
  I love sleeping.
• 3:07
  Except you're just a side fact because I feel like anytime you and I actually first met on
• 3:12
  Instagram and we're going to get into your social media strategy because you definitely are super
• 3:18
  active on social media, but you and I actually first connected on Instagram and DMs.
• 3:23
  And what
• 3:24
  I always found fun about you is like, it felt like no matter when I would respond or reply,
• 3:30
  like you would, like you would reply back.
• 3:32
  And, you know, I always think like I'm on,
• 3:34
  you know, I'm in a different time zone and, you know, I'm a mom.
• 3:37
  So I work different,
• 3:37
  you know, crazy hours.
• 3:38
  And yet like, you're always really responsive.
• 3:40
  So you say you love sleep,
• 3:42
  but I'm like, do you ever sleep?
• 3:44
  Yes.
• 3:44
  That's the one thing I do well is I have my aura ring and I,
• 3:48
  I, you track your, you track your hours.
• 3:50
  That's awesome.
• 3:51
  Okay.
• 3:52
  So let's dig in a little bit like,
• 3:54
  okay.
• 3:55
  So you mentioned that you started working in a bank for 15 and obviously now you've transitioned
• 4:00
  into being a mortgage advisor for well over the last 10 years.
• 4:04
  And you currently work at a bank,
• 4:06
  which is, can you talk to me about how that is, you know, different in the role that you serve
• 4:12
  versus if you were, you know, at a traditional IMB or had gone the broker route?
• 4:16
  I think a lot of people ask that question, why a bank?
• 4:20
  I work for a bank that has a really great
• 4:22
  reputation in Fargo.
• 4:23
  And what's really great is there's a lot of different tools that we can
• 4:26
  provide a client from outside of the mortgage realm.
• 4:29
  So if they need a HELOC or maybe they
• 4:31
  need private banking, it's many arms that we can have, but also it allows me to remain really
• 4:38
  competitive with my pricing and fees.
• 4:40
  But what's really great about where I work is the reputation.
• 4:44
  it's really Fargo is small and I work at a company that has grown into this really great reputation
• 4:50
  um now working at an IMB or a broker of course there's value there there's pros and cons anywhere
• 4:55
  you work right um and I did you know I was at an IMB for a short you know seven weeks but who's
• 5:01
  counting um you know I've never worked at a broker so I can't share the difference between like what
• 5:06
  I would experience but there is this thing that Greg Cher always shares no pun intended is you
• 5:12
  know, that all of us, you know, whatever you want in your career and whatever you want to do and
• 5:18
  serve and what products and what set up IMB broker bank, there's advantages, pros and cons with each.
• 5:24
  And I'm at a bank right now and I've been here for gosh, six years.
• 5:28
  So, wow.
• 5:29
  Yeah.
• 5:30
  So it's cool
• 5:30
  because, you know, obviously you talk about you're in a small town and you know, there's,
• 5:34
  there's differences in being in a small area versus a more urban area as well.
• 5:39
  Um, and so,
• 5:40
  So yeah, you're, you know, being at a bank that has a real strong community presence
• 5:47
  probably allows you to also do things with your personal brand that maybe wouldn't if
• 5:53
  you were at, you know, a mortgage company that had no local presence.
• 5:58
  Yeah, I think too, like the community piece is really important.
• 6:00
  First International is really involved with sponsoring and being, you know, able to provide
• 6:05
  volunteer opportunities.
• 6:07
  And it's like anywhere you go, whether it's a sporting event or, you know, out to eat, you see that we are really invested in our community.
• 6:15
  And when I think about being invested in the community, that's also homeownership.
• 6:19
  So in Fargo, North Dakota, it works really well to be tied to this local brand and local bank.
• 6:24
  Yeah.
• 6:25
  OK, cool.
• 6:26
  So one of the things that I have heard you talk about through your social media presence
• 6:31
  primarily is you've specifically said this phrase, prescription without diagnosis is
• 6:38
  malpractice.
• 6:39
  And the very first time I heard that, I mean, you're the first person I've ever heard use
• 6:43
  that phrase, but it really resonated with me.
• 6:46
  Obviously, it's a medical term, but you applied that to your business.
• 6:50
  Can you explain what does that exactly mean and why do you believe that that's true?
• 6:56
  I a thousand percent believe in that, that process, you know, when you don't feel well,
• 7:02
  or you think something is wrong, you don't just go to your doctor and say, Hey, what do you prescribe?
• 7:08
  You don't just ask for something when you've never been seen.
• 7:11
  X-rays haven't been done.
• 7:13
  Blood work hasn't been ran.
• 7:14
  You haven't seen a doctor, right?
• 7:16
  The same applies for the largest
• 7:18
  purchase of your life.
• 7:19
  The biggest amount of money you will probably ever spend is on real
• 7:23
  estate, a home.
• 7:25
  But yet a lot of us lenders get calls that say, hey, I'm calling around.
• 7:29
  What's
• 7:29
  my rate?
• 7:30
  What's the rate?
• 7:31
  And in reality, I think, well, what do you want it to be?
• 7:34
  Do you want it to
• 7:35
  be five to quarter?
• 7:36
  Do you want it to be six and an eighth?
• 7:38
  It truly depends on your scenario.
• 7:40
  And
• 7:40
  where I struggle to really give a client a rate is if I'm just guessing, I'm not helping that
• 7:46
  client at all.
• 7:47
  I could tell a client, yeah, your rate's five and a quarter, but it's going to cost
• 7:50
  them $27,000 at closing on their loan size, or maybe they don't even want to pay money, or
• 7:57
  maybe we need to talk less about rate and more about out of pocket or more about renovation
• 8:01
  loans or construction.
• 8:03
  And so I really try to let my referral partners know, do not tell clients to
• 8:08
  just go shop rate.
• 8:10
  I mean, I wouldn't tell someone to go and find a realtor or a doctor and just say,
• 8:15
  go find the cheapest doctor that you can, and then let me know who you want to work with.
• 8:19
  So I go again, going back to prescription without diagnosis is malpractice for me to properly curate and prescribe and diagnose.
• 8:28
  I need to see your application, your financials, and then I need to do an analysis.
• 8:33
  I need to meet with my team, review the x-rays, talk to my, you know, head of whatever you want to call it in the medical field and find out what's best for their goals.
• 8:45
  So that's that's where it came from.
• 8:49
  well it's a really great analogy that makes sense you know it's it's really common when you
• 8:54
  lay it out that way what would you say is the cost to the person who is that like heavy focused
• 9:00
  rate shopper like what does that really do to the client experience and just you know that
• 9:07
  that perception in general i think you know like my rates and fees really competitively priced in
• 9:13
  in my area, but you will always be able to find a cheaper rate.
• 9:17
  You can go online, make 10 dials
• 9:19
  and find a cheaper rate that day.
• 9:21
  Wait, you know, 20 minutes and the rates move again.
• 9:24
  But when
• 9:25
  clients are just chasing a rate, they're not asking how many loans have you done in Fargo,
• 9:30
  North Dakota?
• 9:31
  Have you ever done VA loans?
• 9:33
  What do your clients have to say about you?
• 9:34
  Do you close
• 9:35
  timely?
• 9:36
  Do you have an origination fee?
• 9:38
  There's so many things that go into this.
• 9:40
  And when all
• 9:40
  you're doing is chasing a rate, you are missing out on value.
• 9:44
  And I actually, Katie, I had a client
• 9:46
  last week, not around here.
• 9:48
  My rate was higher a little bit than some credit union in a small
• 9:52
  Minnesota town.
• 9:53
  And he's like, so why would I, why would I use you if your rates, I think it was
• 9:58
  like an eighth higher.
• 9:59
  And I said, the same reason that you would choose your doctor or your personal
• 10:04
  trainer, or the fact that you would choose this car over that car.
• 10:08
  And I said, everybody has
• 10:10
  different needs and requirements.
• 10:11
  Does your lender respond after 5 p.m.?
• 10:14
  Katie, so many lenders turn
• 10:16
  off their phone.
• 10:17
  This weekend, I got out, I think it was eight pre-approval letters that clients
• 10:21
  needed as they were shopping.
• 10:23
  Is that important to you or is the eighth percent better for that day?
• 10:28
  The client is, they are only taught to shop rate, but they're never really taught to not just shop
• 10:35
  lenders, interview lenders.
• 10:37
  Who do you jive with?
• 10:39
  Who has a really raving Google review,
• 10:42
  a hundred reviews on Google that talks about their work ethic?
• 10:45
  I think that that's what clients miss
• 10:47
  out on when they're just shopping, right?
• 10:50
  Yeah.
• 10:50
  Well, and I mean, the same could be said to,
• 10:53
  you know, your realtor partners as well, because I think realtors have also, you know, this is a
• 10:58
  little bit different from just the traditional rate conversation, but I hear a lot that realtors,
• 11:04
  still give out the three cards.
• 11:06
  And I think you could apply that as well.
• 11:09
  How would you respond
• 11:09
  to that of a realtor that still is like, well, I give out three cards and you're one of them.
• 11:16
  So I actually had this conversation with a realtor and I said, you say I'm the best and
• 11:21
  you want your clients to work with me.
• 11:23
  Do you not feel it's in your client's best interest to work
• 11:26
  with me?
• 11:26
  And she said, yes, I do.
• 11:27
  And I said, then why are you doing them a disservice by,
• 11:31
  honestly, Katie, I feel like it confuses clients.
• 11:34
  They do three applications.
• 11:35
  They have three credit
• 11:36
  reports.
• 11:36
  They have a lender calling them and, you know, with trigger leads happening and then
• 11:41
  their phone's blowing up.
• 11:42
  And then this lender is telling them, put 3% down.
• 11:44
  And this one's saying
• 11:45
  4%.
• 11:46
  We all have different ways of helping somebody, but it confuses the client.
• 11:50
  And what I'm seeing
• 11:51
  is they give up.
• 11:52
  So what I do with realtors is I say, here's what I recommend.
• 11:56
  Say, go talk to
• 11:57
  Kayla.
• 11:58
  She will take care of you.
• 11:59
  She is the best.
• 12:00
  And tell them, go look online, go Google her.
• 12:03
  That way it's not just you and your word.
• 12:05
  If you're worried about, you know, them having a
• 12:06
  bad experience, which that's not what this realtor's concern was at all.
• 12:11
  But I said, have them go and
• 12:12
  Google me and then say, talk to Kayla.
• 12:15
  And if she does not take care of you, let me know.
• 12:18
  And I'll
• 12:18
  have other recommendations because then they're just talking with me.
• 12:21
  They're getting comfortable.
• 12:22
  This is a very vulnerable moment and opening up about your financial situation to three strangers
• 12:27
  is scary.
• 12:28
  So I combat that with, give them my info, tell them why they should use me.
• 12:33
  And then let's just start there and just tell them if it doesn't work out, I got two other people.
• 12:37
  So that's, that's what I do.
• 12:38
  Right.
• 12:40
  Yeah, no, that's a great approach too.
• 12:42
  And I think it
• 12:42
  really comes down to the level of trust and, you know, value that you offer to your referral
• 12:48
  partners as well, and making sure that, you know, you're really aligned in how you serve your
• 12:53
  clients and what they're needing.
• 12:54
  So one of the things that I find really unique about your
• 12:58
  approach is the diverse like range of types of clients that you serve.
• 13:05
  So anybody that's
• 13:06
  listening, I would highly encourage you to go follow Kayla on Instagram and LinkedIn, and we'll
• 13:11
  have all of those, you know, the links and stuff in the show notes.
• 13:15
  But you're really active on
• 13:17
  your stories, especially.
• 13:19
  And I feel like I see you constantly posting photos of helping,
• 13:23
  you know, a first time home buyer who's, you know, young and then their early twenties,
• 13:28
  all the way up to, you know, doctors and like high-end net worth professionals,
• 13:34
  people buying their second homes.
• 13:36
  So it's like those are in and of themselves are pretty niched
• 13:39
  and can be very technical.
• 13:41
  So can you talk to me about like, who would you define as some of your
• 13:45
  core clients that you serve and how do you serve each of those personas or categories really well
• 13:51
  when they're so different?
• 13:53
  They are so different, but one thing I've noticed quite a bit lately,
• 13:58
  probably in the last year is that I have clients that are buying their fifth home and no one has
• 14:05
  ever broken it down for them the way that I do.
• 14:08
  So they'll say, Kayla, this is my second, third,
• 14:11
  fourth home, I bought my lake home and no one has ever told me that I could pay money for a lower
• 14:16
  rate.
• 14:17
  What are you talking about?
• 14:17
  Or that I didn't have to ask for taxes or insurance.
• 14:21
  Like what I'm
• 14:22
  finding is that you need to treat everybody the same.
• 14:25
  So, and that's just the approach that I
• 14:26
  take.
• 14:27
  So I say, I will say, you know, I'll have a discovery call and I'll get to know their hopes
• 14:31
  or dreams or fears.
• 14:33
  You'd be surprised that a, you know, first time home buyer has similar fears
• 14:37
  as a client that's going to sell their first home and buy they've never sold before, or,
• 14:41
  oh my gosh, I'm buying a second home or a vacation and I've never had that.
• 14:44
  So I find a lot of
• 14:45
  similarities, but the differences that I see are, you know, usually the ones that have bought before,
• 14:50
  you know, they've been through it.
• 14:51
  So they get it for the most part, but there's just a different
• 14:54
  level of detail.
• 14:55
  But what I'm finding is you might have a first time home buyer.
• 14:58
  That's an engineer
• 14:59
  and is super detailed.
• 15:01
  You might have a doctor that's like, I don't even know if I escrow.
• 15:04
  Like
• 15:05
  it's, it's so different yet so similar.
• 15:07
  So I just approach every single client the same,
• 15:10
  very detailed, we're hands-on.
• 15:11
  And I ask them, do you want the high level version or the detailed?
• 15:14
  And I let the client kind of decide, but what I find is if I treat them all the same, I kind of
• 15:19
  read the room and, you know, kind of structure our plan for that client based on that.
• 15:25
  Interesting.
• 15:26
  And so, you know, I think one of the other things, like if I were to just
• 15:29
  kind of pinpoint what I could assume off of some of the differences is, you know, talk about working
• 15:35
  with high net wealth professionals or doctors, for example, they're typically, they don't hold
• 15:41
  traditional office hours in that like nine to five Monday through Friday.
• 15:46
  So do you find that
• 15:48
  even though maybe they're a little more knowledgeable about the process as opposed to a
• 15:52
  first-time home buyer, their needs are still very different because of the career that they have and
• 15:59
  And how are you best positioned to serve them as a loan officer?
• 16:03
  You know, especially doctors.
• 16:05
  I see so many that they just, the time that they have to, you know, meet with their spouse
• 16:11
  and get on a call, we always offer, you know, if you cannot meet during traditional hours,
• 16:15
  let us know.
• 16:16
  A lot of times we're hopping on a Zoom on a Saturday morning.
• 16:19
  And there's so much gratitude from the client for that because we know how busy they are
• 16:23
  and how tired they are.
• 16:24
  you, we always tell our clients, we know you're not going to probably find a home on a Tuesday
• 16:29
  at 2 PM.
• 16:30
  So what we tell people is let's meet, let's talk when it works for you.
• 16:34
  I think that
• 16:35
  if you want to be competitive and you want to provide your clients based, you know, a service
• 16:40
  based on their needs, you have to be flexible.
• 16:43
  Now I'm not saying you need to meet with every
• 16:45
  client at 10 PM on a Friday night.
• 16:46
  You need to have boundaries in this industry because
• 16:48
  my goodness, they will get broken down so fast, but by being able to be flexible,
• 16:54
  I don't work eight to five.
• 16:55
  I work when my client needs me.
• 16:57
  And sometimes those doctors,
• 16:58
  those physicians, those dentists, and some first-time homebuyers, the option is a Sunday
• 17:03
  morning and we do our best to accommodate that.
• 17:07
  Yeah, it's so true.
• 17:08
  And I think that, yeah,
• 17:09
  they have different needs for sure.
• 17:11
  So let's bounce over a little bit more to first-time
• 17:13
  homebuyers as well, because you post a lot of that.
• 17:17
  And I know I've seen some other things just
• 17:20
  going off of your profile and prepping for today's interview, that you're involved with First Home
• 17:25
  IQ.
• 17:26
  So what is your involvement with First Home IQ?
• 17:30
  And why do you have a sweet spot?
• 17:33
  I talk with
• 17:34
  a lot of loan officers and I actually almost get the opposite.
• 17:36
  I think as an industry, we know it's
• 17:38
  important.
• 17:39
  But then when you really break it down, some of the things that I hear of like,
• 17:43
  oh, they need a lot more education and their price point is lower and their, you know,
• 17:47
  it takes a lot more time, like their runway time before they're available is longer.
• 17:52
  But maybe this
• 17:53
  is just the outside looking in.
• 17:54
  I don't get that impression from you.
• 17:55
  So what is your opinion on
• 17:57
  first-time homebuyers in that?
• 18:00
  I just like my heart is on fire when you talk about first-time
• 18:04
  homebuyers.
• 18:06
  What I've noticed, like this job is not for the faint of heart.
• 18:08
  It's stressful.
• 18:09
  There's
• 18:10
  so many hands in the pot.
• 18:12
  There's so many moving parts.
• 18:13
  There's people's, you know,
• 18:15
  homes are on the line here.
• 18:17
  So when it comes to first time homebuyers, Katie, what I found is
• 18:22
  they're so uneducated and they're so scared.
• 18:24
  And I actually, when a realtor or a client reaches out
• 18:28
  and they're like, Hey, I've got a client, they're really nervous.
• 18:32
  I almost get excited because I'm
• 18:33
  like, oh wait, when they meet with me, we're going to be best friends and we're going to talk.
• 18:38
  And so
• 18:39
  I have this like sensitive place for first-time buyers because nine out of 10 times they're given
• 18:45
  wrong information.
• 18:46
  Yeah, there's great information on TikTok and YouTube.
• 18:49
  There's great information,
• 18:50
  but it's almost information overload.
• 18:53
  They don't know who to believe, what to believe.
• 18:55
  Their dad's telling them about, you know, when they bought and this young TikToker's telling
• 19:00
  them this, but it's not applicable to their town.
• 19:03
  So when I can get a first time buyer,
• 19:04
  we're just on a 15 minute call or zoom.
• 19:07
  And I just say, let's talk.
• 19:08
  It's okay.
• 19:08
  You don't have
• 19:09
  to apply.
• 19:09
  We're not pulling credit.
• 19:11
  Just tell me what's, what's motivating.
• 19:12
  You don't want to buy.
• 19:13
  Well, I have a dog and we're in an apartment and, um, you know, I've got, you know, money saved up
• 19:18
  and I've wanted to put, you know, holes in my wall or have a garden yesterday.
• 19:22
  A girl said,
• 19:22
  I just want to put my bare feet on grass.
• 19:25
  And I'm like, honey, yes, grass.
• 19:28
  And she's like,
• 19:29
  I hope this doesn't sound stupid.
• 19:30
  I just want to mow my lawn.
• 19:32
  And I said, no, I think that's
• 19:34
  amazing.
• 19:35
  And so when you really break down what's behind it for a client, what's the motivating
• 19:40
  factor.
• 19:40
  And you just say, let's just talk as humans.
• 19:43
  Then they're more open to saying, okay,
• 19:45
  I'll do the application.
• 19:46
  And I say, no cost, no commitment.
• 19:48
  It's just me doing my prescription
• 19:50
  without diagnosis is malpractice.
• 19:52
  I want to be able to see what, you know, everything looks like
• 19:55
  behind the scenes.
• 19:56
  And then the best part is when you tell them they can buy a home and they're
• 20:00
  like, wait, what?
• 20:01
  I can?
• 20:02
  And then a month later, they're getting the keys.
• 20:04
  So I love that of,
• 20:06
  you know, helping people build that confidence and getting a piece of calm in a place of chaos.
• 20:13
  That's why I have such a sweet spot for first-time homebuyers.
• 20:16
  And do you find by helping them, and you know, maybe this is a little bit different
• 20:20
  to your market because I would imagine, you know, the price point in Fargo, North Dakota is going to
• 20:25
  be very different than somebody listening to maybe Denver or Seattle or LA.
• 20:29
  But for helping first
• 20:30
  time home buyers, do you have clients where you've helped them get in young, maybe they've house
• 20:35
  hacked.
• 20:35
  And then even in a year or two later, they're like, they have that light bulb moment
• 20:40
  where they're like, this is the power of ownership.
• 20:43
  And that first time, like kind of hesitant,
• 20:46
  scared buyer is now feeling like super emboldened or like energized to like continue.
• 20:54
  Do you ever
• 20:55
  have clients that you help that are like wanting to move up or add more doors to their investment
• 21:00
  portfolio?
• 21:01
  Yeah, it's, those are the best as you do a check-in or, Hey, how's it going?
• 21:05
  And I
• 21:05
  actually talked to one of my clients that bought November 15th, 2024.
• 21:10
  Don't ask me why I remember.
• 21:11
  I think it was just such a special day.
• 21:13
  He was a young buyer in a small town and he was nervous.
• 21:16
  He was so scared.
• 21:18
  And then I talked to him about a year later, he had questions, um, because on
• 21:22
  insurance and we were chatting and I said, so tell me, you were really nervous when you bought,
• 21:27
  how, how are you feeling about that decision?
• 21:29
  And he's like, oh my gosh, best decision I've
• 21:32
  ever made.
• 21:33
  He added flooring, he made improvements.
• 21:36
  And what's cool is like even some clients after a
• 21:38
  year or two, seeing the equity that they've made and they go to sell, they're like, Kayla,
• 21:43
  Is it too soon to sell?
• 21:44
  Let's just say we're two and a half years in.
• 21:46
  And I'm like, no, I mean, it's really based on what you guys want to do and your goals.
• 21:50
  It is so cool to say, my gosh, your realtor is telling you you're going to list it for
• 21:54
  this much.
• 21:55
  People forget about this silent, you know, equity gain.
• 21:58
  People just think I'm renting for 2000.
• 22:01
  My mortgage is 3000.
• 22:02
  There's no way like that's so silly.
• 22:04
  And I'm like, yeah, but in the meantime, you're making 20 grand over here in equity.
• 22:08
  And over five years, it's not timing the market.
• 22:11
  It's your time in the market.
• 22:13
  it.
• 22:13
  Yeah.
• 22:14
  You create that.
• 22:15
  So that is one of the most common things I see with clients is like,
• 22:18
  oh my gosh, I had no idea that it was like, this could be done.
• 22:22
  And it's usually when they go to
• 22:23
  sell or they go to like tap into equity.
• 22:26
  Yeah.
• 22:27
  So cool.
• 22:27
  So let's talk a little bit about social
• 22:29
  media.
• 22:30
  Cause you know, when you were talking about the first time home buyer and you made
• 22:32
  some references to TikTok, first of all, are you on TikTok?
• 22:35
  I'm on TikTok.
• 22:36
  Yes.
• 22:37
  You are.
• 22:37
  Okay.
• 22:38
  I feel, I, I myself feel a little bit under a rock.
• 22:41
  I'm like, I am not on TikTok, but that
• 22:43
  shouldn't surprise me because I follow all of your social media channels and I had followed
• 22:49
  you for a long time before I actually ever even sent you a DM and was like, Hey, and shortly after
• 22:55
  I connected with you, fun fact, I actually sent Jeff a message and I was like, you need to have
• 23:00
  her on your podcast.
• 23:01
  Cause she is really just forward in your marketing and what you're doing.
• 23:05
  So let's talk about that on social media.
• 23:08
  And I know it's, it's not about vanity metrics.
• 23:10
  It's,
• 23:10
  it's really not about how many followers that you have.
• 23:14
  Although I think that is something,
• 23:16
  but I think it's more about the quality of conversations that you have.
• 23:20
  And, and, you know,
• 23:21
  the things that we don't see, like the number of DMS that you're getting and conversations that
• 23:25
  you're having.
• 23:26
  Um, so what would you say has been, you know, out the gate, like the best
• 23:30
  advantage for you in having a social media footprint?
• 23:34
  I love this question because for a
• 23:36
  while I was like, what's the point?
• 23:39
  I'm making, you know, I'm sharing these things.
• 23:42
  I'm posting
• 23:43
  closings.
• 23:43
  This was like in 2016, 2017.
• 23:45
  And I'm like, is this like, this feels like a second job.
• 23:49
  Is this even worth it?
• 23:50
  What is so cool about social media is that you have this platform
• 23:57
  to build trust without even having to convince a client.
• 24:02
  And here's what I mean by that.
• 24:04
  I had a
• 24:04
  client that got referred to me.
• 24:06
  Realtor said, Hey, I sent this client stopped in at an open house.
• 24:09
  I sent your info.
• 24:10
  They already know who you are.
• 24:11
  They follow your Instagram.
• 24:13
  That happened three
• 24:14
  times in a weekend.
• 24:16
  And to me, I'm like, okay, they know who I am.
• 24:18
  I get on a call with them
• 24:20
  and I'm like, hi guys, I'm Kayla.
• 24:21
  A little bit about me.
• 24:22
  The girl goes, I know all about you.
• 24:24
  You have four dogs.
• 24:25
  I love your content.
• 24:26
  I learned so much.
• 24:27
  And she's like, we have dogs.
• 24:29
  it is this instant like warmth and cozy and comfort versus you have somebody a lender and
• 24:38
  you can't even find them on google are they real and you're like okay i'm gonna call this person
• 24:43
  they don't answer their phone like social media is building trust without you even having to
• 24:48
  convince a client and so for me it's just another arrow in my quiver of getting in front of a client
• 24:54
  without having to share everything about me and convince them why they should use me they're
• 24:58
  already looking me up.
• 24:59
  They're already following my stories.
• 25:02
  And a lot of times they're not just
• 25:04
  choosing me because I'm a really great lender.
• 25:06
  They might feel, wow, she's really relatable or,
• 25:08
  oh my gosh, she has, like I said, dogs and I have a dog.
• 25:12
  She seems like someone I can talk to,
• 25:14
  a friend.
• 25:15
  So that's what I'm seeing with social.
• 25:18
  So you're on social a lot.
• 25:21
  And can you, can you
• 25:22
  break that down a little bit.
• 25:23
  Like what platforms are you on?
• 25:26
  Let's start there.
• 25:27
  So I'm on LinkedIn,
• 25:29
  LinkedIn.
• 25:29
  I have the most followers because I've been on LinkedIn for so long.
• 25:32
  I feel like LinkedIn
• 25:33
  is kind of a powerhouse that people forget about.
• 25:35
  It's not a job engine search only.
• 25:38
  It's not just
• 25:38
  for finding a job.
• 25:39
  It's for connecting with professionals.
• 25:41
  Okay.
• 25:43
  I'm on Instagram, which is
• 25:44
  directly linked to Facebook.
• 25:46
  It's amazing how many friends and followers you get on Facebook after
• 25:49
  being on it for 20 years.
• 25:50
  You know what I mean?
• 25:51
  So don't forget about Facebook.
• 25:53
  There's a lot of
• 25:54
  power there and Instagram.
• 25:55
  And then yes, I have TikTok.
• 25:57
  Now my account got hacked a year and a
• 25:59
  half ago, so I had to rebuild and that's okay.
• 26:02
  So I've got TikTok and I have YouTube that I'm
• 26:05
  slowly working in.
• 26:07
  I do a lot of my podcasts that we upload, but that's a whole other beast that you
• 26:11
  have to, you know, figure out and algorithms, things like that.
• 26:14
  But a lot, a lot of platforms,
• 26:17
  to be honest.
• 26:18
  Okay.
• 26:19
  So I hear you.
• 26:20
  And just as somebody that does create content myself,
• 26:24
  I'm even listening and I'm like, whew, that's a lot.
• 26:27
  Cause I mean, let's be honest.
• 26:29
  We can all
• 26:30
  say you just need to be everywhere.
• 26:32
  Right?
• 26:32
  Like I love even Arjun had said the other day, like the
• 26:35
  best known beats the best because you know, it's like whoever is the best known typically gets,
• 26:42
  the first call or whatnot.
• 26:43
  And so, yes, we all say like you have to be everywhere and get in
• 26:48
  front of as many people, but I find it, that's really overwhelming.
• 26:52
  Especially if you're like,
• 26:53
  Hey, I'm a loan officer first.
• 26:55
  I'm really good in sales.
• 26:56
  I've never met a stranger.
• 26:57
  I'm great
• 26:58
  in front of people.
• 26:59
  And like, I just choke in front of the camera or I, you know, one of the
• 27:06
  things I think some of our listeners might say, and I'm just going to say this on behalf of them
• 27:11
  is like, okay, Kayla, you talk about your lake house
• 27:15
  and you post a lot of photos about your dog
• 27:18
  and all of these different things that you're interested in.
• 27:22
  What would you say to somebody listening
• 27:24
  if they feel like maybe they're boring
• 27:27
  and from the sense of,
• 27:28
  I don't know what to talk about on social
• 27:30
  and I don't just wanna post the picture of my closings.
• 27:35
  I think this is really common.
• 27:37
  And I think too that we forget about social media
• 27:40
  can really get you in that comparison trap.
• 27:42
  The comparison can be the thief of joy, or it can
• 27:45
  create some fire underneath of you to say, if I'm feeling this way, maybe there's something I'm
• 27:49
  missing.
• 27:50
  So there's a lot with social, right?
• 27:52
  It can be tiring.
• 27:53
  You're like, am I doing enough?
• 27:55
  I felt the same way.
• 27:56
  I'm like, I don't know if people are going to take me seriously.
• 28:00
  I feel like as a woman and being blonde, I'm like, do I have to work harder to have people
• 28:04
  take me seriously.
• 28:05
  And then I realized I am me.
• 28:08
  My heart is goofy when it comes to my business.
• 28:11
  I'm solid.
• 28:11
  I'm, um, I'm strict.
• 28:13
  I'm straight.
• 28:14
  I'm very competitive.
• 28:16
  But what I would say to
• 28:18
  somebody is just start showing up.
• 28:19
  And I would say in stories, stories are where the magic happens
• 28:23
  and stories that everyone's going to see posted, but that's where there's DMS.
• 28:26
  And that's where
• 28:27
  people get to know you.
• 28:28
  If I struggle to get on and have this camera in front of my face,
• 28:32
  sometimes I'll just do like B roll.
• 28:34
  Maybe I'll set my camera up while I'm working my phone anyway.
• 28:37
  And then I'll put some words over it on a post.
• 28:40
  I would say, find the places that, you know,
• 28:44
  you're finding yourself having conversations with clients, these aha moments, where are the
• 28:48
  same conversations coming up?
• 28:50
  Tell the story about how you help somebody.
• 28:53
  And so I think there's a
• 28:54
  couple ways to do it.
• 28:55
  And I think you just have to test it out, but show up as authentically you
• 29:01
  don't try to be everybody else try the stories like to say hey I'm on my way to a closing I
• 29:06
  help this person I don't know why but I feel like that's just less pressure than a reel and then
• 29:11
  that's how I started on doing reels I'm like okay the stories people were like you should make that
• 29:15
  story a reel and I'm like oh okay because then you can share it so that's how I leaned into it but
• 29:21
  you have to come in thinking you can't be perfect because you're never going to post and you have to
• 29:26
  realize you're not for everybody and that's okay because you don't want to be either.
• 29:30
  But
• 29:30
  I promise you that something you share, even if it helps one person realize they can buy a home,
• 29:35
  then that's not boring.
• 29:37
  You're doing exactly what you should be doing showing up online.
• 29:40
  So two things that I take away from what you just said, there's a lot, but two things that I take
• 29:46
  away is one, you have to understand that you have to start somewhere, right?
• 29:50
  We're not all
• 29:54
  camera ready or influencer status.
• 29:57
  And so I think if you give yourself permission to start
• 30:02
  and say, hey, I understand just like with money and wealth, like compound effort, like effort
• 30:09
  will compound over time, right?
• 30:11
  So the more that you practice and the more that you do it,
• 30:14
  the better it gets.
• 30:15
  But you also said something that I want to key in on, and that is to know who
• 30:20
  you're talking to.
• 30:22
  So how do you approach that?
• 30:24
  Because I find a lot of people when they approach
• 30:26
  social media is they try to be all things to all people to have this infinite reach.
• 30:33
  And in return,
• 30:35
  they end up having like no influence because they're talking so broad.
• 30:40
  So like, what would
• 30:41
  you say about really knowing your audience?
• 30:45
  I think it's again, trial and error.
• 30:48
  I mean,
• 30:48
  you never know who's seeing your stuff because a lot of times people see your stuff, whether
• 30:53
  they're not liking or sharing or commenting, but typically what you're seeing is the magic
• 30:56
  in the DM.
• 30:57
  So I would say pay attention to the posts or the things that you put out there that
• 31:02
  are having clients ask questions, whether it's, Hey, did you know you can make an extra
• 31:07
  payment a year and do this or whatever it is that you're posting, just pay attention.
• 31:11
  But Katie, I don't know if there's really a way that you know who you're talking to,
• 31:14
  But just like how in our world, in our sales, in our business of mortgage, you're always told you need to niche down.
• 31:22
  You need to have, you know, who do you help most?
• 31:24
  We're always told this.
• 31:25
  So I would challenge somebody to try to niche down on some posts.
• 31:29
  Maybe say, are you a single mom that struggles with, you know, understanding your finances and if you can buy a home?
• 31:36
  Or maybe you say, are you a medical professional and you struggle with, you know, putting money down for your down payment when, you know, you're not making the money yet.
• 31:44
  but you have a contract that you will be like, whatever it may be, just niching down on the
• 31:49
  content.
• 31:50
  I mean, for someone like me, I might say, do you have a dog?
• 31:53
  And are you sick of living in
• 31:54
  your apartment?
• 31:55
  Like I often kind of do this broader approach too, but when you kind of test
• 32:00
  it out, you'll see who follows and who likes.
• 32:03
  And, and what I found is you might help one doctor
• 32:07
  and what's helped what's happening is that doctor is going to tell their doctor, or you might help
• 32:10
  this one dog groomer and that dog groomer is going to tell their dog groomer friends.
• 32:14
  So
• 32:14
  it's kind of like birds of a feather, but you really just have to test it out and try to just
• 32:18
  niche down on your content.
• 32:19
  Pick one thing and go that route.
• 32:21
  Well, I think you have to give
• 32:22
  yourself permission to, to, to kind of trial and error that way through it.
• 32:27
  And you know,
• 32:27
  like you're saying, I mean, you can look at, you can look in some of the analytics on the backend
• 32:32
  view counts and things like that.
• 32:33
  But one metric that I heard somebody share recently that they
• 32:36
  follow and I liked the mindset is, and you know, we talk about virality of like, oh, this post went
• 32:42
  viral.
• 32:43
  Or I think sometimes people assume that to be successful in growing their, their business
• 32:49
  through social media is they need viral content.
• 32:53
  But what I recently, this mindset shift was
• 32:56
  viral for me.
• 32:57
  And what do I mean by that is like, Hey, what is viral for you look like?
• 33:02
  That might
• 33:02
  be you share one story and you get three DMs out of that.
• 33:06
  Or maybe you get, you know, a realtor
• 33:08
  who viewed it and has been following you for a while because there's people that follow,
• 33:13
  but they don't engage.
• 33:15
  That's where it makes it really tricky.
• 33:17
  And then, you know, maybe that's
• 33:18
  one post is what makes them decide, oh, I trust you.
• 33:22
  I will start sending you business.
• 33:23
  So rather than looking at the number of impressions or shares, which are really
• 33:29
  traditional metrics.
• 33:30
  I think they're really incorrect.
• 33:32
  If we look at it as a viral for me,
• 33:35
  what is the standard for you?
• 33:37
  So can you talk to me?
• 33:38
  Do you have, I know you had mentioned
• 33:41
  in a previous conversation, you shared a carousel and it was a little bit contrarian to what was
• 33:47
  going on in the current market.
• 33:49
  And then you got conversations all weekend out of that,
• 33:53
  but you actually got a lead directly from that, from an out-of-state realtor.
• 33:57
  Am I correct?
• 33:59
  Yeah, so long story short, but you know, sometimes we get nervous to post things that might go against the grain or might be controversial.
• 34:07
  You get nervous still with what you've built?
• 34:10
  All the time.
• 34:11
  And I'd even delete stuff sometimes.
• 34:12
  So I'm like, oh my gosh, someone's going to get offended.
• 34:14
  And I was just at this point where I get frustrated when I see headlines and then clients panic.
• 34:21
  And I'm like, why are people sharing these things?
• 34:23
  Like why?
• 34:24
  We need to get to the truth and the source and we need to educate the consumer.
• 34:27
  So yes, I made a post and I'm like, do I do this?
• 34:30
  And I posted on a Saturday morning, which doesn't usually go over well.
• 34:35
  It's usually, you know, during the week, but this post, everyone started sharing it
• 34:40
  because everyone in the industry was relating to it.
• 34:43
  They're like, oh my gosh, someone finally said it.
• 34:46
  And I had many clients that asked to cop or not clients, many other industry professionals
• 34:51
  asking to copy it because they're like, I want to share this.
• 34:53
  well what happened is people are sharing it because they want their audience to see it
• 34:57
  and yeah you have I had a couple different individuals in our industry reach out and say
• 35:01
  finally thank you for sharing that and that leads to conversations that leads to coffee that leads
• 35:06
  to clients but I'm not going to be that lender that's afraid to say say the truth and sometimes
• 35:12
  you got to do that through social so that carousel again it wasn't a real usually reels are what kind
• 35:16
  of I guess gained the most attention yeah it was a carousel that you swipe through and it was just
• 35:21
  me saying, Hey, here's a real deal about deal about interest rates and the headlines that you've
• 35:25
  heard.
• 35:25
  And yeah, it was scary to post, but I mean, I had so, I think that post, I had more followers
• 35:31
  than I've ever had and it was everyone in our industry.
• 35:33
  So now there's realtors that are like,
• 35:35
  wow, she's speaking the truth.
• 35:36
  I'm going to follow her.
• 35:38
  And guess what?
• 35:38
  We might now be in business
• 35:40
  and have a client together.
• 35:41
  Yeah.
• 35:42
  It's kind of taking that leap and it's okay to be scared,
• 35:45
  but that's usually what leads to the most success is doing the things that are the most scary.
• 35:49
  Yeah.
• 35:52
  So what, you know, you mentioned the contrarian, kind of taking a contrarian take, which doesn't, most of your content doesn't really feel like that.
• 36:02
  So maybe there's something to be said about leaning in more to having, you know, it's the say it louder for those in the back.
• 36:10
  Yes.
• 36:11
  Let's talk about, I'd be curious to hear, are you using AI and how do you bring in AI to
• 36:20
  your content?
• 36:21
  Because it seems like you create a lot of original ideas, but how do you bring
• 36:26
  in AI to your content?
• 36:29
  Well, truthfully, you find a friend in Katie Shive who tells you all the
• 36:33
  things that you need to hear.
• 36:34
  Upgrading from chat GPT to the clouds of the world, the Gemini's,
• 36:37
  Like there's so much out there, it gets to be overwhelming.
• 36:41
  But I truly think if you just take some time to understand how other options work for you,
• 36:47
  I mean, using Claude versus ChatGPT, just the output is so much more in depth.
• 36:53
  And when you train it, so what I did is I had a brand book created that was plugged
• 37:00
  into Claude where it really understands my voice, my vision, who I am as a human, who
• 37:05
  I am as a professional.
• 37:07
  and what I do and this maybe this sounds super simple but I have these thoughts and I have these
• 37:14
  ideas but I sometimes don't know how to get it articulated well so when you can plug something
• 37:21
  in and say hey Claude here's what I'm dealing with I want to create a post but I want this to
• 37:25
  be my audience it is amazing how it can take your ideas and just have them just so much better
• 37:31
  organize it.
• 37:32
  Yeah.
• 37:33
  Like organized in a way that is digestible to the consumer, because a lot of
• 37:37
  us lenders are like VOE, COE, PVOE, like we're saying all these acronyms, we have all these
• 37:43
  thoughts, but we have to remember sometimes we need AI to kind of, I want to say not dumb it
• 37:48
  down, but bring it down to a digestible level.
• 37:50
  So I use it for, Hey, I want to do a post about this.
• 37:54
  And it's amazing how it like takes my words, but also like, maybe I want it to be softer
• 38:00
  or maybe I want it to be edgier.
• 38:02
  And so I use it a lot for just post ideas.
• 38:05
  I've used it for a
• 38:05
  first-time home buyer webinar that I was doing, but it really is not supposed to replace me.
• 38:10
  It's supposed to almost enhance me, like take my words and my vision and organize it.
• 38:15
  So that's
• 38:16
  what I've been using Cloud and Gemini and ChatGPT the most for.
• 38:19
  So you kind of bounce all over.
• 38:21
  One of the things I've heard from a few loan officers who have been hesitant to embrace AI
• 38:27
  specifically with social media is they're just concerned about authenticity.
• 38:32
  Like they're like,
• 38:33
  if AI writes it for me, then I didn't really say it.
• 38:37
  What would you say to somebody who's
• 38:39
  really struggling to lean into AI?
• 38:43
  And maybe that is, could they leaning, they're leaning into AI
• 38:48
  actually help them get off the fence and create more content or content consistency.
• 38:53
  But what
• 38:53
  would you say to that, that specific statement that if they didn't write it specifically and AI
• 38:59
  helped, that it's not really them?
• 39:01
  I say your competitor is going to do it and they're going
• 39:04
  to attract the consumer or the referral partner.
• 39:06
  I think that AI, yeah, you should be concerned.
• 39:09
  I still get online and I'm like, this is so chat GPT, my gosh, get rid of, what are those long
• 39:14
  dashes, M dashes?
• 39:15
  Oh, the M dashes.
• 39:16
  We are still in that, like, come on people.
• 39:18
  So you can totally
• 39:19
  tell.
• 39:20
  And I'm like, so I would challenge somebody to write it yourself, write it yourself, and then
• 39:26
  plug it in and have it fine-tuned a little bit.
• 39:28
  Tell it what you want to do.
• 39:29
  Speak it, you know,
• 39:31
  create, take my words and polish it to reflect someone that's reading it as a first-time buyer,
• 39:36
  whatever it may be.
• 39:37
  And at the end of the day, sometimes I post something and I'm like, ah,
• 39:41
  it's just like, there's something missing.
• 39:43
  If I'm a consumer, I'm reading this, there's something
• 39:45
  missing.
• 39:46
  I'll plug it into AI.
• 39:48
  And I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you.
• 39:50
  It's not to replace you.
• 39:51
  It's
• 39:52
  to help you.
• 39:52
  I mean, it's no different than asking a friend, hey, how could I rewrite this?
• 39:57
  What's
• 39:58
  the difference between asking a friend, hey, if I posted this, would this make sense versus AI?
• 40:02
  You just cannot have it right at all for you.
• 40:05
  It's very unclear when that happens.
• 40:07
  Yeah.
• 40:08
  No, it's really real when you start looking at some of the content.
• 40:13
  You can go to the extreme.
• 40:14
  I see this in, I feel like it's more obvious in LinkedIn.
• 40:19
  Maybe that's a platform that I hang out on more.
• 40:22
  Or you're just like scroll, scroll, scroll before you're like, oh, finally, somebody's
• 40:26
  real voice, you know, and how they would actually maybe talk.
• 40:29
  But you touched that you have the most followers on LinkedIn.
• 40:33
  And again, it's not about the follower count.
• 40:36
  But why do you believe that loan officers should be in LinkedIn?
• 40:40
  You know, I think it's a different market.
• 40:41
  I think a lot of your home buyers are probably on the Instagrams of the world, but I think that
• 40:48
  your kind of B2B, you know, maybe it's your lawyers, your financial advisors, realtors aren't
• 40:54
  on there as much as they should be either.
• 40:56
  But to me, I'm getting more, Hey, I have a company event.
• 41:00
  Could you come speak?
• 41:01
  Or I get a referral from something like, Oh, who sent you my way the other
• 41:05
  day?
• 41:05
  Last week, someone said, Oh, my boss told me he's he follows you on LinkedIn and I should talk
• 41:10
  to you.
• 41:10
  My biggest referral source in 2022 was from a group of financial advisors because one
• 41:18
  of them saw my posts, saw that I financed in South Dakota, did a deal for a doctor in South Dakota,
• 41:23
  had a good experience.
• 41:24
  He started using me, then told all of his financial advisors, you guys,
• 41:29
  30% of my business, like what?
• 41:31
  Because I posted on LinkedIn that I could help someone in South
• 41:34
  Dakota.
• 41:34
  So I think that it's a way to do more B2B versus like B2C.
• 41:38
  And now there's still people that
• 41:40
  are going to reach out and want a loan and you know, whatever state that you know, is a home
• 41:44
  buyer.
• 41:44
  But to me, it's where the professionals are the HR people.
• 41:48
  How cool would it be to get
• 41:49
  in with HR at a company in town at the clinic in town and be like, Hey, yeah, send me your people.
• 41:55
  It's just a different platform.
• 41:57
  Yeah.
• 41:57
  Well, and I think I would argue that maybe your quality of
• 42:02
  referrals are also going to be different.
• 42:04
  Because, again, if you're working with, you know,
• 42:07
  professionals, you know, they're probably coming to you.
• 42:10
  Maybe their, their income is better,
• 42:13
  or maybe, I don't know.
• 42:14
  I mean, I just think that there's, there's opportunity there.
• 42:17
  The other thing that's great and overlooked with LinkedIn is, you know, it's a lot, it's,
• 42:23
  you can do more long form content.
• 42:25
  Do you, have you gotten into anything like newsletters or
• 42:28
  writing articles, or are you mainly just posting and having conversations?
• 42:34
  in this season of life that I'm in wild one I am just really just posting when I can I've not done
• 42:41
  newsletters what I started doing actually though is I will do a weekly email to partners if they
• 42:46
  want to be on this list and I'll just give like a quick like hey here's what rates are doing here's
• 42:51
  a tip something like that but I think there's a lot of value in doing a LinkedIn newsletter because
• 42:56
  if you've got followers you can easily say hey sign up for my newsletter and it's a click of a
• 43:01
  button.
• 43:01
  It's actually genius.
• 43:03
  I follow a lot of those newsletters because I'm like, yes.
• 43:05
  And
• 43:06
  what's great about that is you already have, you know, whatever it may be a thousand people that
• 43:11
  you're connected with.
• 43:12
  If you just put out there, invite all these people to join your newsletter.
• 43:16
  I mean, why wouldn't you, but I haven't gotten there yet, but with the help of some friends in
• 43:21
  the industry, I think I will get there.
• 43:22
  Cause I think there's a lot of value.
• 43:24
  Yeah.
• 43:25
  Well, and
• 43:25
  yeah, you can bring in some, you add in value in terms of, you know, your thought leadership.
• 43:29
  And
• 43:29
  like you're saying, I mean, if you went to go create a newsletter, what I do like about LinkedIn
• 43:35
  is it sends a notification to all of your followers, like, Hey, so-and-so just created
• 43:40
  a newsletter.
• 43:41
  Would you like to subscribe?
• 43:42
  So you're instantly getting a mass push from LinkedIn
• 43:47
  and that sit, that comes through your inbox differently than if it was an email.
• 43:52
  And then second to that every week or whatever cadence you subscribe to,
• 43:57
  when you post a new newsletter, your followers get notified as well.
• 44:03
  And so I do believe it's
• 44:04
  an underutilized strategy.
• 44:06
  So I would encourage you to lean into that since you are so active on
• 44:12
  LinkedIn.
• 44:13
  But for anybody listening, maybe you don't love the camera.
• 44:16
  Maybe YouTube is not your
• 44:17
  jam.
• 44:18
  Maybe you're not on TikTok.
• 44:20
  And maybe you have some really good ideas and you want to put
• 44:24
  that into more long form content.
• 44:26
  LinkedIn really is an underutilized platform.
• 44:30
  I think there's still
• 44:30
  a lot of room to get in to be adding a real value in conversations.
• 44:36
  Well, and let me be an example.
• 44:38
  We just got done talking about, you know, Hey, I've never posted a video.
• 44:42
  I've never posted on
• 44:43
  LinkedIn a newsletter, but I know the value.
• 44:46
  So it's like, how do you take that first step?
• 44:48
  How
• 44:48
  do you do that?
• 44:49
  And you want to know what there's never going to be a perfect time.
• 44:51
  You just have
• 44:52
  to do it.
• 44:52
  And I started doing a realtor zoom monthly and I'm like, Oh my gosh, like I've
• 44:56
  never done this.
• 44:57
  It's amazing when you do it once, how you're like, it's not so bad, you know,
• 45:01
  just give it a shot.
• 45:01
  Yeah.
• 45:03
  And if you don't want to do it anymore, you don't, if you don't want to
• 45:05
  do the newsletter, don't, if you don't want to do the zoom, but at least you can try it and be like,
• 45:08
  Oh, okay.
• 45:09
  And then get the feedback of you added so much value.
• 45:12
  When I do my realtor emails,
• 45:14
  it's like, I had no idea.
• 45:15
  That's what this is about community education and helping people
• 45:19
  with their businesses as well.
• 45:20
  So it's, I think LinkedIn newsletters it's next on my list.
• 45:24
  Hi.
• 45:25
  Um, one, so two more, two more questions, this for people listening and they're like,
• 45:31
  okay, she's on Tik TOK.
• 45:32
  She's on Instagram.
• 45:33
  She's on LinkedIn.
• 45:33
  She's everywhere.
• 45:35
  I'm just
• 45:35
  going to ask the direct question.
• 45:37
  Do you have a big marketing team?
• 45:39
  Like what is your kind of
• 45:41
  behind the curtains look like?
• 45:44
  Katie?
• 45:44
  No.
• 45:45
  So for me, it's me right now.
• 45:48
  So it's me and my thoughts
• 45:50
  and my Canva.
• 45:52
  But one thing that I did do is I hired a VA. And now...
• 45:56
  Okay.
• 45:56
  And does that VA
• 45:58
  like do your marketing for you?
• 46:01
  So yes and no.
• 46:02
  She helps me with ideas.
• 46:04
  She's helped me kind
• 46:04
  of get organized.
• 46:05
  One thing that I do love about her is she'll get ideas going.
• 46:08
  So she might create
• 46:10
  four posts and I'll use one of them, but I, I want to say 99.9% of the time I'm going in
• 46:17
  and I'm editing it like, Oh, I want to change out this picture.
• 46:20
  What have you, this word,
• 46:22
  but she gets the ideas going.
• 46:24
  So I'll tell her, I'm thinking, you know, here's some things I'm
• 46:26
  thinking of.
• 46:26
  She'll send me some ideas.
• 46:28
  She'll just go post that or like make the post in Canva,
• 46:31
  but then I go put my spin on it.
• 46:32
  So she's helping really get like juices flowing and the thought,
• 46:36
  the creativity side, or I've had some things that I wanted to build.
• 46:40
  She's been so good at this.
• 46:42
  I'm like, I need a digital link for my clients to have like a buyer booklet.
• 46:46
  Like I want them
• 46:46
  to be able to flip through the process and I don't want to attach PDFs.
• 46:50
  Hey, Rochelle,
• 46:51
  can you make this into an electronic version?
• 46:53
  Or, or maybe I'll say, Hey, I've got this event
• 46:57
  coming up.
• 46:57
  Can you make a flyer?
• 46:58
  So she's been able to take some things off of my plate.
• 47:01
  Like
• 47:02
  uploading my podcast to YouTube was a huge feat.
• 47:06
  We had a hundred and some podcasts.
• 47:08
  And so she
• 47:08
  was able to do that and then take clips and repurpose them for content.
• 47:13
  So again, it's not
• 47:14
  like she's like this marketing person that's designing everything.
• 47:18
  It's a collaborative effort
• 47:19
  of who's Kayla, what can Rochelle give lift on?
• 47:22
  Hey, can you help organize these things so that,
• 47:25
  you know, I'm not all over the place.
• 47:27
  And that's been a huge lift because sometimes it's just
• 47:31
  getting that creative idea going and she does that for me.
• 47:34
  But probably also, you know, that
• 47:36
  you're paying her every month.
• 47:37
  So you're like, it, maybe it probably lights a little bit of a
• 47:40
  fire near you to be like, okay, I got to like do more, you know, so.
• 47:44
  Yeah.
• 47:45
  And, and it's true.
• 47:46
  I
• 47:46
  have to, you know, keep her busy because I am paying for her, but my gosh, the possibilities
• 47:51
  are endless of what I could do, but I'm in a season of life where I'm so busy that it's like,
• 47:55
  you have to stop to take the time to give, you know, almost train somebody, but it has been
• 48:00
  worth it.
• 48:01
  Yeah.
• 48:02
  So for everybody listening, that's like, I don't have the time, you know,
• 48:06
  not that we need to follow Kayla's exact example, but what, what would you say to people that are
• 48:13
  like, I just don't know where to start.
• 48:15
  I don't have the time.
• 48:15
  Like what's the next thing that
• 48:18
  you would tell them?
• 48:20
  I would ask, you know, what, what is it that you want to do?
• 48:22
  What are your top
• 48:23
  three things?
• 48:24
  Maybe it is a newsletter.
• 48:25
  Maybe it is hosting a realtor zoom.
• 48:27
  Maybe it is doing a
• 48:28
  home buyer webinar, when it comes to social media, one of the things that I did that got me kind of
• 48:33
  like, Oh, this is a good idea is I follow lender crate and it just had ideas for loan officers.
• 48:39
  I think coffee and contracts is one for realtors.
• 48:43
  I've done stuff like punch the monkey like that.
• 48:47
  Yeah.
• 48:48
  I like, I got an idea to like do something with punch from like seeing that.
• 48:52
  So it's just
• 48:53
  like it takes, it's very trendy, but it gives ideas.
• 48:56
  But I would say get Canva, build out a
• 48:59
  few different templates that you can just switch out some pictures, go get some photos taken.
• 49:03
  Your photo from like 10 years ago, like go refresh it.
• 49:07
  If you're nervous to take photos, people see
• 49:09
  you every day.
• 49:10
  Like that's how you look.
• 49:11
  Like go take some fun photos, you know, take some B-roll,
• 49:15
  set up your camera and just type and then put that on, you know, in Canva or a reel and just put some
• 49:21
  words over it.
• 49:22
  You don't even have to talk.
• 49:23
  So that's kind of what, how I started, or that's
• 49:26
  kind of what I do for filler Katie's.
• 49:27
  I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm so busy this week.
• 49:29
  I'll send Rochelle
• 49:30
  a video of me and be like, Hey, can you create this about a first time home buyer and add these
• 49:34
  stories or reviews?
• 49:36
  Like there's a lot you can do with just some B roll and some photos, you know,
• 49:40
  love me some B roll.
• 49:41
  It has saved my bacon many days when I'm like, I don't have time.
• 49:45
  It's,
• 49:45
  it's a good, yeah.
• 49:46
  I think in the cool part about the B roll is, you know, you can do B roll.
• 49:50
  And
• 49:50
  So for people listening that might be like, what is B-roll?
• 49:52
  That's just taking a small, like an example would be like, if you're flying somewhere,
• 49:57
  like take a 10 second video of the picture outside your airplane in the clouds.
• 50:02
  Or if you're going for a walk, like, you know, pan the pretty area that you're in or a sunset.
• 50:07
  So it's just background video.
• 50:09
  That's not necessarily like talking head where it's straight on.
• 50:13
  And again, as listeners, you've seen this, you know, when you're scrolling social media
• 50:17
  with, you know, it's, it's words written over that.
• 50:19
  So cool.
• 50:20
  Well, we're going to last and final question is if you could fix one thing about the mortgage industry, like overnight, you had the magic wand and you could fix one thing.
• 50:35
  What do you think it would be?
• 50:37
  What would it be and what would it mean for the next generation of homebuyers?
• 50:42
  I would a thousand percent say that I wish that I could wave my magic wand and people would stop
• 50:50
  rushing the process meaning going and looking at homes and saying I'm going to wait for the
• 50:55
  perfect house to come out before I look at the finances I wish that realtors wouldn't show houses
• 51:01
  until someone said I can afford it because it creates this sense of rushing and then they don't
• 51:07
  take the time to get educated.
• 51:08
  So many times I see people that do it the right way and they're
• 51:12
  confident and they're comfortable and they're excited and they understand it and they're
• 51:17
  getting a really great deal.
• 51:19
  And then when I see the ones that are just not taking the time,
• 51:22
  I see it fall to pieces.
• 51:24
  I see them get stressed and no one wants to deal with it.
• 51:27
  It's stressful
• 51:27
  enough to move to buy a house.
• 51:30
  So I just wish that people would take their time.
• 51:33
  And that could just
• 51:34
  mean having a conversation, doing an application, and then just waiting to go look at homes.
• 51:40
  Because
• 51:41
  so many times I've had to tell people on Friday of last week, Katie, I had clients that want to
• 51:47
  write an offer and they're like, Hey, is the pre-approval done?
• 51:49
  What can we do?
• 51:50
  They wanted
• 51:51
  to write an offer for 300.
• 51:53
  I could pre-approve them for $85,000 and they were crushed.
• 51:56
  And they,
• 51:57
  you know, and that is the worst.
• 51:58
  And here's the deal is like, if we could just prepare,
• 52:01
  It's not a no, it's just a roadblock.
• 52:04
  How are we going to get past this?
• 52:05
  To me, I just think that for the biggest purchase of your life, it's worth doing your homework
• 52:11
  before the night before it's due.
• 52:13
  That's what I would change.
• 52:15
  So, so good.
• 52:17
  Okay.
• 52:18
  I love it.
• 52:19
  Well, on that note, thank you for just your time.
• 52:21
  Thank you for popping in.
• 52:23
  We will make sure to put all of the show notes in the bottom.
• 52:25
  So for all of our listeners, you will know exactly how to go find Kayla.
• 52:30
  And what would you say?
• 52:31
  Like you want them to send you a DM if they want to take this conversation any deeper?
• 52:36
  Yeah.
• 52:36
  DM my phones out there, my email, whatever way is easiest for you.
• 52:39
  Yeah.
• 52:40
  I don't miss my DMs though.
• 52:41
  So shoot me a DM if you want to chat.
• 52:43
  I'm here in any capacity.
• 52:45
  And if you want social media tips or talk mortgage, or you're a home buyer, or maybe
• 52:49
  you just want to just have a new friend in the social media world.
• 52:52
  Like Katie, I've never met you in person.
• 52:54
  I feel like I already know you.
• 52:56
  Yeah.
• 52:56
  That's awesome.
• 52:57
  Very cool.
• 52:58
  Thank you guys for listening.
• 53:00
  we will be back next week with another episode so make sure to
• 53:04
  follow along and we'll be back next week thanks katie