Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 543 | The GTM Playbook Rewritten: AI, Agents, and Demandbase 4.0

Transcript

Ep. 543 | The GTM Playbook Rewritten: AI, Agents, and Demandbase 4.0 · The Prompt

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  This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
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  pressing B to B go to market challenges each week.
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  Host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talked to sales and marketing
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  leaders to get you in depth insights and creative strategies
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  to set your revenue teams up for success.
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  Hey everyone, welcome back to the home based podcast.
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  I'm Miros Chris Moody, and today we're thrilled to have Gabe
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  Rogel with us to talk about how AI agents are reshaping go to
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  market and demand base 4 point O Gabe, thanks for joining us
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  today and welcome to the show. It's great to be here, Moody.
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  You're OK if I call you Moody, right?
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  Oh yeah, that's perfect. Well, it's good to see you too.
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  And I know we have a bunch to talk about.
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  The first thing I just said, demand base 4.0.
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  I'd love for you to talk about the defining shift behind that
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  and what we're starting to leave behind.
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  Yeah. We, you know, really believe
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  that we're moving into a whole new phase of not just demand
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  based, but really the account based go to market.
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  And we called out phase four because there's been three
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  previous phases that are roughly been four years apiece.
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  And there's a huge shift happening right now.
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  And I think the defining change is really that we're going away
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  from the phase of like kind of monolithic closed platforms that
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  think of an account based go to market as something that can be
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  achieved with kind of 1 technology to more open flexible
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  technologies. So that that's one.
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  Another defining shift is that it's kind of the relationship
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  between the power of the technology behind APM and how
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  manual it is. So being able to make the most
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  powerful aspects of account based technology accessible,
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  quicker time to value through what I call assisted automation,
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  which is really agentic advances in technology and AI modeling.
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  It's really awesome. I just came back from an event,
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  actually flew overnight and slept about 45 minutes.
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  But there are lots of conversations around open and
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  transparent and flexible and how that's coming to life because of
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  how this is happening at Demand Base.
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  I'm curious, what are some of the biggest lessons you've
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  learned going from Demand Base one point O all the way through
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  three-point O that's helping us to build 4 point O?
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  There's a lot of them. I mean, I think the the biggest
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  is that to be successful with an account days go to market, you
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  have to think of it as a strategy and not a tactic,
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  right? You know, if you click down into
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  what that that means, it means it's not just leads, it's not
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  just a marketing thing. You know, it's not just one
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  technology. It's really an organization's
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  approach, starting at the executive level, to align your
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  resources to the accounts that drive the greatest lifetime
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  value. And that's why enlisting all of
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  those resources, whether they're people, processes, or
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  technologies, to to kind of all be moving in the same direction
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  is so important. And that's why, you know, we
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  keep hitting on the technologies that do this have to be open and
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  flexible and kind of automated in certain ways in order for our
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  customers and in order for all of us that have a go to market
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  to realize the potential of an account based go to market.
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  Yeah, I, I love that, Gabe. And I'm curious, if you had a
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  soapbox and you could shout from up on a hill about the biggest
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  pain point in the market that you think we are solving that
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  other folks aren't talking about, what would that be?
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  I think it's the relationship between scalable because every
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  business changes over time. You know, we see, you know, you
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  change through growing you, you change through moving into new
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  markets, you change through new technology advances that we're
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  all dealing with now. Now being able to handle that
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  scale while still being integrated with the tech stock.
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  And I think there's kind of been this development of two
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  different camps where you have, on the one side, black box
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  monolithic platforms that kind of try to help you scale ABM.
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  And on the other side, you have what I call light ABM or what
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  some people call unbundled ABM, which is really about how do you
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  put like the components and pieces of ABM together so that
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  it's integrated across your tech stack.
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  And the reality is at different phases of your development, you
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  have to do both. And what we're really trying to
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  to solve for is how do you both scale and grow, but also
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  integrate with all these different technologies in ways
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  where the the sum is greater than the parts.
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  So it's kind of bringing together the best of dedicated
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  platform type technology that's open with the ethos of kind of
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  the unbundled, open, flexible and working together in a
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  friendly way into a powerful way to grow your your go to market
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  through every phase of your business.
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  Yeah, now that's good. I, I love the soapbox questions
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  too. You hit the passion point and
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  you really start to find that anyone who's been to an event
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  lately or has been to demandbase.com or follows demand
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  base on LinkedIn has seen conversations happening about
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  agent base. And if they weren't on the
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  LinkedIn live with you and Chad, what would you describe agent
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  base as to someone who doesn't know what agent base is?
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  Agent Base is a framework for our customers that has a unified
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  approach to assisted automation and it's a technology that sits
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  upon our unified data layer, which brings in first and third
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  party data for us to rapidly scale and roll out agents to our
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  customers. And over time, I think this
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  framework that we built, you know, again, on top of our
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  unified data platform, which brings together first and third
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  party data and gives you a complete view of your accounts,
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  buying groups, people not only will enable demand base to roll
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  out agents, you know, more quickly, but also, you know,
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  it's, it's our vision that that'll help other companies
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  develop internal agents for themselves to utilize this this
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  unified data platform. So it's super exciting.
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  Like that a lot. And look, we all love to talk
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  about the art of the possible, whether that's personally,
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  professionally. What does Agent Base help enable
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  folks to do that wasn't possible previously?
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  I really think of it, you know, kind of going back to what I was
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  saying earlier about what going into phase four of of the
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  account base go to market, you know, what are the two things I
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  talked about? We're leaving behind monolithic,
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  you know, black box platforms and we're leaving behind the
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  idea that the most powerful aspects of the account base go
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  to market are kind of manual and complex.
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  So I'm super excited because I think, you know, what agents can
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  do is take those really powerful aspects of platforms and kind of
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  democratize them. And so some of those things are
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  like building segments and really powerful ways.
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  You know, in the past you've had to kind of go in and kind of
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  architect, engineer across your first and third party data, You
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  know, what are the most powerful segments to drive revenue and in
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  specific ways, like just prompt based building of audiences, you
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  know, making things much quicker journey stages.
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  That's like how do accounts go through your funnel, like what
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  behaviors have to happen for them to move to the next stage
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  and what automations happen? You know, that has been complex,
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  making that much more accessible through automation.
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  And then you know, what's the next action?
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  How are you orchestrating across your text stack?
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  Again, it's been about like kind of creating rules based
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  approaches. You might see like kind of
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  people kept talking about work flows and kind of graphs and
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  putting things together. You know, that all should be,
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  you know, done through agents, you know, with human oversights
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  in ways where value comes much more quickly.
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  So, you know, I'm really excited that the most powerful aspects
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  of account based technology now you can realize quicker, realize
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  the value quicker through, you know, agentic advances.
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  I think everyone loves getting rid of the tedious and manual
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  task. How close do you think we are to
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  a truly autonomous go to market? You know, I, I don't necessarily
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  believe in a fully, you know, autonomous go to market, you
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  know, in that every, if we're defining it as like every aspect
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  of the go to market just just runs one, because I don't think
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  that the technology will be, you know, will even be possible to
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  be there for several years. But two, I think there's aspects
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  where AI even even down the road is going to be super strong, you
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  know, notably like making the tedious, like you said, not, you
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  know, kind of just magic and, and and and happen.
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  But there's going to be aspects where, you know, humans and
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  we'll talk more about this, you know, are always going to be
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  important. You know, the kind of the
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  creative aspect, you know, the, the kind of the, you know, just
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  what the machine just doesn't know from human relationships,
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  you know, all those sorts of things.
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  So I really think of it as assisted automation, you know,
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  that that's what we want. We want to make, you know, the
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  all the things that AI can do well, free us up for all the
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  things that, you know, humans can do well.
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  So I'm not a believer in a fully autonomous go to market, but I
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  think it could be much more autonomous than it currently is.
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  Yeah. It leads me to the conversation
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  around are we adding new roles are or getting rid of people
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  with things like this? Do you think Agent Base is
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  helping to enable new roles or new responsibilities, or does it
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  replace some of the existing ones that may exist in an org
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  chart today? I think it's a nuanced question
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  because if there's not necessarily going to be new
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  roles, you know, that are just going to be a, you know, we're
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  working with agent base or we're working with, you know, agents,
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  you know, from regardless of, of, of where they come from.
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  I think it's more about enabling current roles.
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  You know, there might then be some ability to to be more
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  efficient with the resources you have.
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  But you know, I think in my mind, efficiency maybe although
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  incredibly important and kind of obvious in the benefits of, of
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  agents, I guess in some ways have been, has been overplayed
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  in that or overemphasized in the sense why don't we emphasize
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  expansion and growth as much as we're emphasizing efficiency,
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  right? So if we have the same roles and
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  they and they can be more productive, why don't they use,
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  we use those added productivity to grow more, right?
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  And so I think I think everybody's kind of currently
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  hitting on, you know, yes, we can make things more efficient
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  because we're enabling current roles.
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  But I think the unlock is going to be, and I think agent base
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  can help with this is like, let's enable current roles.
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  Yes, maybe there's efficiency, but now there's so much more
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  productive. Let's really focus on how we
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  grow more. Yeah.
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  I, I think that's such an important point because it does
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  seem like most of the use cases default to efficiency and save
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  time and it's not always a growth mindset.
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  I think that's a really important point, and a lot of
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  our listeners have probably seen billboards about not hiring
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  humans, whether that's on LinkedIn or in San Francisco or
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  other cities. Let's talk about SDRSII know
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  that there are several companies that are doing AI agents as SDRS
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  and trying to replace some of that function.
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  I'm curious your stance. Do you think that's the future
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  of an SDR, and if So, what does that look like?
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  Well, First off, I think, you know, going back to the theme of
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  like certain aspects of AI and and the AI go to market being
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  over and emphasized and maybe therefore missing where even
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  greater benefits could be utilizing AII think what, you
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  know, just as in like kind of the efficiency conversation we
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  just had, the focus on SDRS has been kind of over emphasized,
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  you know, because it's it's kind of a race to that, you know, use
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  case. Because let's be honest, it
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  seems obvious, right? In the sense that if we think of
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  SDRS as just being emailing, you know, really all we have to do
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  is essentially, you know, kind of e-mail, either inbound
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  interest or e-mail outbound prospecting.
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  You know, then, hey, we're going to automate the SDR and there's
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  a certain component that e-mail is a component.
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  And I'm certainly making emails quicker for, for SDRS is
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  important and you know, kind of making, you know, doing all the
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  spell checking and, and doing much more than that.
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  But that's not all an SDR does, you know that where is that
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  really going? If we're saying it's about
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  e-mail, are we just creating spam machines?
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  I mean, you can see a lot if you research, you know, how these
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  SDR, you know, there's a lot of benefit from AAI assisted SDR
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  flat out. And I'm a big fan of a lot of
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  the companies that do that. So I don't want to make it seem
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  like I'm not, but the amount of emails going out right now and
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  the response rates from e-mail, you know, I think just a few
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  years ago, you know, you if you were a good STR, you know, or
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  you could get 5 to 7% response rate, you know, nail companies
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  are happy with like sub 2% response rate.
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  So is all of this focus really making us better?
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  Is it really enabling growth more?
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  And so kind of going back to my overall theme, I don't know if
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  we should think about it in terms of we're limiting STRS,
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  it's how are we making great SDRS or how are we producing
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  more great SDRS, right? And great SDRS are creative,
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  they form relationships, you know, they've become more
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  data-driven. So there's an aspect, you know,
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  that that's important. And then going back to my
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  initial point here, why are we just focusing on this use case
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  so much to go to market? What about the things I was
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  mentioning around? How about core account based use
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  cases? Like, how do our audiences get
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  better? How does our measurement of how
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  we're moving through the final get better?
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  How does orchestration get better, not just through SDRS,
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  but through all channels? And I, I want us to be spending
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  more time thinking, you know, focusing on that, you know, at
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  demand base, but also, you know, as, as stewards of of our go to
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  market, you know, because there's so much upside there.
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  Yeah, that was a really great response.
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  It just makes me think about the best outreach I receive, and it
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  is always a human that's taking the time to get to know me and
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  spending time to build a relationship and doing something
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  creative. And that stands out.
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  And I think many of us are already able to detect when AI
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  is assisting or creating content by itself.
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  The same thing is going to happen to outreach, to your
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  point. So when everyone's doing it, you
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  create the sea of sameness again.
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  And then I, I think the human touch is going to stand out even
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  more, which is kind of a segue into the risk that you may see
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  with the rise of AI agents. What are some of the risks that
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  you think exists and how should companies prepare for them?
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  Well beyond maybe like, you know, kind of the privacy risks
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  that I think a lot of people talk about in terms of like what
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  what data becomes usable to AII think data accuracy and it is a
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  risk or or kind of hallucinations is another way to
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  put it. And then fragmentation of the go
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  to market. So on, on the first point, you
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  know, we don't talk enough about how dirty most CRMS are and and
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  data foundations are for most companies.
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  We see it over and over again. And if you, you know, think
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  about that in terms of like how does an agent work?
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  It works by, you know, utilizing data in, in language models,
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  right? And if you're utilizing data
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  that is inaccurate, you're kind of exponentially increasing the
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  impact of that inaccuracy. So without, you know, until I
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  see as much focus on data accuracy as there is on AI and
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  agents, I think there's going to be an imbalance and potentially
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  negative impact for companies. And then on the second point, it
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  kind of goes to what we were saying about spam and e-mail.
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  But like, if you think about an account based go to market, you
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  know, you're selling complex solutions, you're trying to
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  align all your marketing functions, you know, your sales
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  functions, your customer success functions, your OP functions,
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  and you're bringing in all these kind of point type agents to do
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  different kind of aspects of it. If they're not all kind of
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  interoperable or working together, then you get this kind
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  of instead of the focus, you know, laser on the, you know,
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  the same message to the same account to drive to drive it
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  forward. You're getting like everything
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  is playing out and the chances are that your marketing message
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  is going to align with your STR and sales message and the data
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  through Rev OPS is going to be the same.
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  It becomes worse. And so I sometimes think of it
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  as the issue that you have, you know, you everybody has marking
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  automation and sales automation. They're kind of two at their
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  worst two separate spam machines that are not coordinated in any
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  way. Imagine that exponentially
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  amplified with all these agents fish crossing.
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  And so I think unfortunately there's a danger that the go to
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  market has become become become more fragmented, therefore less
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  efficient. Yeah, I want to pull in the
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  thread of data accuracy and data integrity and it makes me think
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  about trust. What do you think the role of
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  trust will be in the next generation of go to market
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  systems? Well, trust will be
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  foundational, right? Because I believe at the
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  foundation of your go to market. If you're, if you've got a
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  complex go to market, you know you're selling B to B complex
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  solutions. It's about alignment, right?
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  It's about alignment of your technology, alignment of your
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  resources because you are trying to focus where there's the
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  greatest lifetime value of your customers.
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  You know, that's the whole point of an account based go to
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  market. And how do you get alignment?
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  You get alignment through trust. You know that we, we, we've all
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  have seen horror stories of, you know, sales and marketing not
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  aligning because they don't trust each other.
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  They don't trust, maybe sales doesn't trust, you know,
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  marketing saying they're being successful because they're
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  generating leads or opportunities.
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  And for some in some reason that they're, you know, when they get
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  to sales, they don't seem like real opportunities, right?
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  That's a classic scenario, but it's just one example of where
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  you don't have trust, you know, things breakdown and so you know
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  that's what goes down. You know, it goes back to what
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  we were saying at the outset of what is phase 4 all about for a
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  county's going to market and for demand base.
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  It's all about being open, flexible, transparent so that
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  you know, the functional areas can have more trust and the the
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  gentic solutions that work off of our platform and data can be
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  more trusted so that the end result is a more efficient and
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  effective and rapidly growing go to market.
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  So. So trust is is absolutely
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  foundational. I'd love that point too.
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  I mean, it makes you think of Jodie Lieba and her quote that
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  we have on slides, right? I don't.
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  Everyone sells to come to me and say, why did you pick this
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  account if you don't trust everything that you're doing?
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  That's going to be the question. And no marketer wants to hear
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  that. No seller wants to ask that.
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  We all know the pain of that and you know the pain.
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  Let's talk about pain for a minute.
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  I, I have spent weeks as an analyst with lots of people
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  painstakingly arguing over the meaning of account based to
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  figure out that single definition on a slide.
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  And lots of weeks of my life went into those debates.
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  As we use AI and all the tools that orbit AI to decide what's
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  relevant in our go to market strategy, how does that change
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  the meaning of account based? My definition of that, and I
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  don't know if this solves the pain that you just had, if
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  you're willing to accept it, because it's probably, you know,
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  misses something. But the way I think about it is
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  it's aligning your go to market resources to the accounts with
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  the greatest lifetime value. And I don't think agents change
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  that. But it what it does though, is
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  it expands, you know, if you go back to that, that definition,
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  what does aligning go to market resources mean?
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  What do resources mean, right? So if you flashback like 20
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  years, what were the resources that you're aligning?
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  You were probably aligning, you know, sales, marketing.
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  SDR wasn't even really a function yet.
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  It was just starting to be a function.
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  You know, you had CRM, you know, there was no marketing
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  automation, right? So that's what it meant to
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  align. You know, 10 years ago it was
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  aligning that plus SDRS, you know, maybe starting to align
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  customer success, which was just coming into play.
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  Marketing automation was certainly around, you know, five
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  years ago. It's that, you know, with
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  account based platforms, more data assets and now that
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  definition of resources expands to include agents.
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  And so now we have to think about going back to the what I
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  was saying about the risk of agents, how do we make sure that
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  they're not going off in all different directions and they
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  truly are account based so that they're aligned to the accounts
• 21:38
  that matter most. And so I think it's it's an.
• 21:40
  It doesn't change the definition in my mind, but it expands the
• 21:44
  things you have to align. I love that.
• 21:47
  And I think you're uniquely positioned to answer this
• 21:50
  question well because you think a lot about the future of demand
• 21:54
  base, the future of go to market, the future of revenue
• 21:57
  teams. How do you see the role of go to
• 22:00
  market teams changing in the next three years and how are you
• 22:03
  helping demand base prepare for that shift?
• 22:06
  You know, in a way the functions are are coming closer together,
• 22:11
  which I guess is natural given we've been beating, you know,
• 22:14
  we've been beating the drum about alignment.
• 22:16
  And so if you play that through, you know, you can almost think
• 22:19
  of marketing sales as the distribution element of a
• 22:24
  company, right. And what is the fundamental
• 22:27
  thing that that distribution, you know, kind of element of a
• 22:31
  company has to do? I think it's aligning around
• 22:33
  pipeline creation. I think historically there's
• 22:36
  been, you know, if you go back years, it's kind of like
• 22:39
  marketing is focused on leads, marketing qualified leads, and
• 22:44
  then you have sales qualified leads, you know, you have
• 22:46
  opportunities and then you have sales focused on bookings.
• 22:51
  Actually, you know, as I talked to more executives, as I, you
• 22:54
  know, as we as the members try to help companies with their go
• 22:57
  to market, it's not leads that's the issue because you're really
• 23:01
  not trying to just go for people, right?
• 23:04
  You're really trying to go after the accounts that matter and
• 23:06
  buying groups. And it's not necessarily
• 23:08
  bookings because you know, most companies do a pretty good job
• 23:13
  in the sense that their win rate, they know their win rate
• 23:15
  and they can kind of dial that up a point or two, but you kind
• 23:18
  of know what your win rate is. The problem is the amount of
• 23:21
  pipeline you have, the more the go to market as a whole is
• 23:26
  focusing on pipeline, the more unified it's going to be and the
• 23:31
  more growth there's going to be. And I think there's going to be
• 23:34
  an agentic component to that, which is what we talked about,
• 23:37
  like making everything kind of that's tedious, more automated.
• 23:42
  And then there's going to be the humid component, which is going
• 23:44
  to be the creativity, which is going to be the insights, which
• 23:50
  is going to be the human being good at the human relationships,
• 23:54
  whether they're, you know, kind of asynchronous or synchronous,
• 23:57
  right? You know, saying what are we
• 23:59
  doing? I think as we build out our
• 24:00
  technology, that's what we're like really hell bent on solving
• 24:03
  is, you know, outcome based kind of interaction with our
• 24:07
  platform. Like you're setting in goals,
• 24:09
  we're helping to produce pipeline.
• 24:11
  And so I think the functions coming together and rallying
• 24:14
  behind pipeline and technology that drives pipeline, I think
• 24:17
  it's going to unlock so much. What part of the traditional go
• 24:20
  to market playbook do you think is obsolete?
• 24:22
  And I'm curious, for whatever you think is obsolete, why is
• 24:26
  everyone still doing it? It kind of goes back to the the
• 24:29
  previous answer in part, you know, I, I think weeds are are,
• 24:35
  you know, I don't know if obsolete is the right word, but
• 24:38
  just about obsolete. You know, there's, there's,
• 24:40
  there should be white tertiary and I, I think last touch
• 24:43
  attribution as well. And I'm talking about in, in
• 24:46
  complex B to B because it's just two.
• 24:50
  There are two. The reason both why they're
• 24:53
  don't work and also because the reason why people still rely on
• 24:57
  them, probably especially less touch attribution is because
• 25:00
  they're simple, right? You kind of can say, Hey, I put
• 25:04
  in X amount of money and I got Y amount of leads and you know Z
• 25:09
  amount of kind of less touch from different channels.
• 25:13
  But the big problem is you're dealing with complex
• 25:17
  organizations that you're selling to over long periods of
• 25:21
  time. And if you think about
• 25:23
  optimizing towards those simple metrics, then you have no
• 25:29
  visibility into all the things that you should be doing
• 25:33
  earlier. And if your competitors are,
• 25:35
  then you're kind of optimizing yourself out of existence by
• 25:39
  kind of going to that endpoint. And so I, I've been trying to
• 25:43
  like hammer the, the kind of the death net death nail into that
• 25:48
  for a while. Those things, but they still
• 25:49
  exist. And I think we've got to make
• 25:51
  those obsolete, at least in terms of being primary measure.
• 25:55
  Great points there And another thing we've talked about for
• 25:57
  multiple decades now, personalization.
• 26:00
  I I'm curious what your thoughts are on personalization and if
• 26:04
  there may be something we should focus on instead.
• 26:07
  I actually think that personalization is underrated.
• 26:11
  So I, I think it, it should remain, but that goes back to is
• 26:16
  it like AI personalization only, you know, utilize, or is it AI
• 26:21
  plus human? You know, the best outreaches
• 26:24
  I've ever seen have been thoughtful and personalized,
• 26:28
  right? I mean, ultimately humans buy
• 26:31
  and they buy because the message resonates, you know, and ever
• 26:35
  and whatever and then resonates differently for for different
• 26:38
  people. So I think personalization is,
• 26:41
  is something that will always be important.
• 26:44
  However, I think what's underrated is maybe should be
• 26:48
  into your kind of original question.
• 26:50
  What which should be emphasized more is who are you
• 26:53
  personalizing to? Because if you're personalizing
• 26:57
  to the wrong type of buyer, then it's a bad thing to personalize
• 27:02
  to them because you're spending more times in the sales cycle.
• 27:06
  You might be selling products to a company that ultimately will
• 27:08
  churn. So I think just as much as we
• 27:11
  focus on personalization, we have to focus on understanding
• 27:15
  our ICP and being very disciplined and focusing on the
• 27:19
  ICP or you're wasting time and you're you're selling to bad
• 27:22
  customers. Yeah.
• 27:23
  I love that. And look, you've heard my rant.
• 27:26
  Hey, I've talked about it a lot on episodes, how marketers chase
• 27:29
  shiny objects. I do think sometimes our
• 27:33
  profession is very quick to jump to something new before we
• 27:37
  conquer what we're already doing, whether that's
• 27:39
  personalization, marketing automation, account based,
• 27:42
  right? Like we're on to the next before
• 27:45
  we actually master it. So some great clarifying points
• 27:48
  there. If you could radically reinvent
• 27:51
  one part of the go to market today, what would it be?
• 27:55
  Well, I think I can say this and maybe I have a bias for saying
• 27:57
  it because my background is sales.
• 27:59
  With sales. I think in most organizations,
• 28:02
  especially enterprise organizations that sales
• 28:05
  departments have advanced the least in the last 15 to 20
• 28:09
  years. It might be different in kind of
• 28:11
  small technology companies, you see more advances.
• 28:14
  But you know, we work a lot with enterprise and mid sized
• 28:16
  companies and I think they're still sales people just coming
• 28:21
  in too late. Sales people still kind of
• 28:25
  where's the lead, you know, wanting everything to be warm.
• 28:28
  You know, where as I mentioned earlier, like sales and
• 28:32
  marketing are should be coming together more as the
• 28:34
  distribution kind of engine of a company around pipeline.
• 28:38
  And that means being much more data centric or signals.
• 28:42
  And you're a lot about signals. But you know, what does that
• 28:45
  really mean? It means you have to get earlier
• 28:48
  in the process. And that may mean you're
• 28:50
  reaching out to people that aren't as warm as they were 20
• 28:54
  years ago, but that's the way people buy now.
• 28:57
  They buy without late, you know, they buy later, you know, with
• 29:01
  kind of moving through more and more of the sales cycle before
• 29:04
  they get to a salesperson. We've known that for so long and
• 29:06
  I just feel like sales teams haven't been held accountable to
• 29:11
  that and not and it's really hurting, you know, their ability
• 29:15
  to. Great stuff.
• 29:17
  All right, we have one more question, Gabe, before we go
• 29:19
  into the Lightning round. I know we have tons of stuff to
• 29:22
  do today. I'm sure CE OS aren't busy at
• 29:24
  all these days. So all right, the last question
• 29:28
  before we hit the quick hitters, what is something you believe
• 29:32
  about the future of go to market that most CE OS would disagree
• 29:35
  with? I think that you have to invest
• 29:38
  more in marketing. You know, I think if you go back
• 29:41
  to what we were saying about and expand it that so much, what AI
• 29:46
  is talking about is efficiency. So much of what, you know, the
• 29:50
  focus on the last three years in the macro environment has been
• 29:54
  about efficiency and margins, you know, rightly so, coming
• 29:58
  after growth at all costs. But enterprise value, economic
• 30:01
  value comes from growth. And I don't think a lot of CE OS
• 30:06
  give marketing the voice it needs to adequately evaluate,
• 30:12
  you know, how do you hit your pipeline plan and you know,
• 30:16
  going back to where the real value of people are going to be,
• 30:19
  you know, positioning, brand relationship building, you know,
• 30:24
  events, field marketing, all that stuff.
• 30:26
  It's not just leads or last touch create, you know,
• 30:30
  opportunity creation and measure that like in that way.
• 30:33
  And so, you know, I, I would advocate for CE OS that, you
• 30:37
  know, we have to continue to invest more.
• 30:39
  And I've seen data recently that there's a huge correlation
• 30:42
  between the amount you grow and what percentage of your overall
• 30:47
  revenue you spend back on marketing.
• 30:49
  The more you spend, the more you grow.
• 30:51
  And so that that's yet another soap.
• 30:53
  Yeah, and the crowd goes wild. I think everyone's going to love
• 30:56
  that answer. We'll clip that and push that
• 30:58
  out. Social.
• 31:00
  All right, lightning round, very quick answers here.
• 31:03
  Favorite tools or technology that you're using?
• 31:06
  This might not be quick because people might not know what it
• 31:08
  is, but have you ever heard of zettle casting?
• 31:11
  No, so zettle casting. This is more of a tool, but it
• 31:15
  can be a technology is a note taking system.
• 31:19
  It was based on, there was a German sociologist, Nicholas
• 31:22
  Lehmann, who was incredibly prolific, had all this kind of
• 31:26
  advances in sociology. And when they went back and, you
• 31:29
  know, looked at how he was doing things, he basically created
• 31:32
  these, you know, system of note cards.
• 31:34
  That's what zettle casting is like notes and in a slip box and
• 31:37
  he put them in a box. And the way he took notes was
• 31:40
  instead of being linear, it's like here's the point, here's
• 31:42
  the point, Here's the point. He found what the essential
• 31:45
  ideas are and instead of kind of in every book, you know, I'm
• 31:50
  going to have the linear notes, he connected those essential
• 31:53
  ideas between what you read and he absorbed and he linked them.
• 31:57
  And you can do that, you know, kind of in the non digital way.
• 32:02
  You can do it in the offline way or digitally.
• 32:03
  So there's tools like Obsidian and others that work with the
• 32:07
  zettle casting system, but there's a lot of power in this
• 32:09
  kind of zettle casting. Tool of that.
• 32:12
  Can't wait for the LinkedIn posts on that link.
• 32:14
  AI. We're looking forward to that.
• 32:16
  Good reads, favorite books, blogs, newsletter, podcast.
• 32:20
  Yeah, I mean, I'm, and it's like really into, I mean, this might
• 32:23
  be a little old school, but HBR, Harvard Business Review, I've
• 32:27
  got their compilations, you know, they have them around
• 32:30
  decision making, you know, like agile project management, like
• 32:35
  anything that you can, you know, AI.
• 32:37
  And the, the reason that I like them is these HPR compilations
• 32:41
  is because if you get a business book now most of them have this
• 32:44
  formula. Here's one idea.
• 32:46
  I'm going to stretch it out over 300 pages by being repetitive
• 32:50
  and having little stories because I think I'm Malcolm
• 32:52
  Clodwell and I just like, I read it for about like, you know, 30
• 32:57
  minutes. I'm like, Oh my God, the fluff.
• 32:59
  So these, the HHPRS are kind of like they, they take out all the
• 33:02
  fluff. So I love that.
• 33:04
  What about good people? Who inspires you in the B2B
• 33:07
  space? That's a tough one.
• 33:09
  You know, I think, I mean, I think all those the, the CE OS
• 33:12
  advancing, you know, kind of obviously Salesforce, you know,
• 33:17
  Benioff, you know, but the, the people that are being really
• 33:20
  daring and bold to move forward, you know where, where we're
• 33:24
  going. And I and I just love to see
• 33:26
  companies. I think Salesforce does a good
• 33:28
  idea, good job of this of like moving so quickly to take
• 33:32
  advantage of market opportunities.
• 33:35
  And I really aspire to kind of move fast to serve customers.
• 33:39
  And I think, you know, Salesforce does a great job of
• 33:42
  that. Last question, Gabe, most
• 33:44
  important one how can everyone get in touch with you after this
• 33:47
  episode? LinkedIn Connect with me on
• 33:49
  LinkedIn. All right, well, you crushed it
• 33:51
  today, Gabe. Thanks so much for all your
• 33:53
  time. Thanks for joining us for On
• 33:56
  Base. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 33:58
  please be sure to share, rate, review and subscribe on Spotify,
• 34:01
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• 34:05
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• 34:10
  alignment.